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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Marc Rime
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
65
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Posted - 2013.05.10 13:21:00 -
[61] - Quote
Thought about using WP as a criteria:
Griefers have been know to put tremendous effort into their chosen style of play. Should it be possible to keep your WP below the limit by nullifying the +50 from kills through, for example, penalties from team kills you can be sure there *will* be people doing just that. |
Dazereth the 2nd
Stoned Kloned Killers
35
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Posted - 2013.05.10 13:25:00 -
[62] - Quote
I've been playing a little while, but still haven't broken 2m sp. I worry that this new system might prematurely put us against proto-players.
Any idea roundabouts how many WP to be ejected from the academy mode? Will there be a way to view total WP (Haven't poked around enough to see if there is currently XD) |
dustwaffle
Ill Omens EoN.
12
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Posted - 2013.05.10 13:26:00 -
[63] - Quote
Marc Rime wrote:Thought about using WP as a criteria:
Griefers have been know to put tremendous effort into their chosen style of play. Should it be possible to keep your WP below the limit by nullifying the +50 from kills through, for example, penalties from team kills you can be sure there *will* be people doing just that. 'Griefers' in a FPS... |
Madden The Merciless
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
96
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Posted - 2013.05.10 13:35:00 -
[64] - Quote
I love the wp idea I think it ensures truly new players, which is the point after all. I think maybe 100,000 wp would be more than enough to get new players started. They don't need to understand the game, they merely need to be know they like it and want to play more. Plus if its a bit of a challenge, more people will want to play more. |
Dazereth the 2nd
Stoned Kloned Killers
35
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Posted - 2013.05.10 13:42:00 -
[65] - Quote
Madden The Merciless wrote:I love the wp idea I think it ensures truly new players, which is the point after all. I think maybe 100,000 wp would be more than enough to get new players started. They don't need to understand the game, they merely need to be know they like it and want to play more. Plus if its a bit of a challenge, more people will want to play more. Thats only 100k SP. Because it's a 1:1 ratio for WP and SP.
Calculate in that extra from the round, lets say 4k sp a round. That equals out to 500k SP before being thrown to the wolves.
No.
I'd say something along the lines of about 700k to 1m WP before being ineligible for the Academy mode. That's about 2.8 ish mil to 4 mil puttting them well in place to rock competitively with all the upper tiers. |
Deadeye Dic
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
46
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Posted - 2013.05.10 14:14:00 -
[66] - Quote
Heinz Doofenshertz wrote:I could see a few issues here: 1 what stops a vet from rolling alts to grief the academy? 2 some players need longer to learn how to play than others. so how to you account for this? 3 is it really a good idea to segregate the new players then suddenly throw them to the bunnies?
While I agree there needs to be a much better way to teach people how to play this game, seperating them off by themselves in special battles is not an ideal way to do it.
I don't see #1 being a big deal. Granted some like to pubstomp but they'll get to first sp cap and probably be booted out of the baby mercy zone and then it won't matter. Besides it won't do the vet anygood to pubstomp on an alt. What would be the benefit?
I think to discourage the Stat paddlers and bets potentially trying to pad an alter stats, maybe the academy shouldn't track anything except w/l and wp. Or alternately when one "graduates" stats are reset to 0. This would at least discourage a portion of vets. |
lobo christy
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2
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Posted - 2013.05.10 14:21:00 -
[67] - Quote
I think this is great my buddy is starting and needs this. |
Floyd20 Azizora
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
0
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Posted - 2013.05.10 14:22:00 -
[68] - Quote
what about having both wp and sp requirement. for sp, why not set it to 2m skill points, but make active sp earned not count towards the weekly cap. this allows people to get to a decent sp level quickly, before being set loose in the univerise? |
InsidiousN
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
18
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Posted - 2013.05.10 14:33:00 -
[69] - Quote
Here's a major problem, seeing as WP and stats STILL aren't recorded in Skirmish matches you can have Protos entering these battles. |
neurol forever
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2013.05.10 14:37:00 -
[70] - Quote
sorry for english.
in skirmish war points don-Št count to stats like k/d ratio. i don-Št play ambush much so my wp are still low. using wp like only one criterium is wrong. |
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RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
139
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Posted - 2013.05.10 14:44:00 -
[71] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:RECON BY FIRE wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:By the way our initial thought based on advice from the CPM is to use total war points not skill points. One the of the problems with skill points is you earn them passively, so if you roll an account and leave it inactive for a while you will eventually end up out of the academy without playing any battles. We feel that war points is a better indicator of actual game experience which also happens to scale with proficiency. Filtering by warpoints does not stop someone from getting pubstomped by protos, however. A new player with a high level of skill can quickly aquire WPs, but they still will not have the proper gear to take on veteran players. The definition of a rookie needs to be simple. If a player can survive well enough to consistently earn war points to achieve veteran status then they'll do fine.
So because a noob can do well against other noobs, then they should be good enough to face vets in proto gear? I don't think so. |
Hellsung Deathsong
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
20
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:11:00 -
[72] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:On the subject of matchmaking, I have 2 suggestions.
Match squads against other squads: sometimes you just want to just play by yourself and relax, in those cases being matched against squads provides too much of a challenge to be fun, and too little challenge for the squad. If I'm just playing by myself, don't match me against a full squad of some elite corp.
Match players based on ALLOCATED SP: 1 million (allocated) SP or below players get thrown in one battle, 2 million SP and below players get thrown in another battle, etc. Right now I'm saving my SP before specializing so I'm still using militia starter fits, and I keep getting matched with people with prototype weapons and prototype specialized dropsuits; not a pleasant experience at all. Playing against these highly specialized players is too much of a challenge for most, and not enough of a challenge to the proto wearers.
The instant battle academy is a good start, but I really think basing it off allocated SP would be a really good way to put new players against other new players, and work as a good system for everyone else.
this is just to easy to cop out and not allocate so you can sit there and kill noobs for easy sp, 100,000 wp across all characters, enough time to learn and get sp, but not continually farm in a lower category |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
56
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:11:00 -
[73] - Quote
I have some extensive posts (~10 posts worth to be exact) in the process of being written specifically about the new player experience.
The Instant Battle Academy is a great step in the right direction. |
Hellsung Deathsong
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
20
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:13:00 -
[74] - Quote
Deadeye Dic wrote:Heinz Doofenshertz wrote:I could see a few issues here: 1 what stops a vet from rolling alts to grief the academy? 2 some players need longer to learn how to play than others. so how to you account for this? 3 is it really a good idea to segregate the new players then suddenly throw them to the bunnies?
While I agree there needs to be a much better way to teach people how to play this game, seperating them off by themselves in special battles is not an ideal way to do it.
I don't see #1 being a big deal. Granted some like to pubstomp but they'll get to first sp cap and probably be booted out of the baby mercy zone and then it won't matter. Besides it won't do the vet anygood to pubstomp on an alt. What would be the benefit? I think to discourage the Stat paddlers and bets potentially trying to pad an alter stats, maybe the academy shouldn't track anything except w/l and wp. Or alternately when one "graduates" stats are reset to 0. This would at least discourage a portion of vets.
|
ZDub 303
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
70
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:16:00 -
[75] - Quote
This is definitely not optimal, but hey.. a quick fix is better than no fix.
I worry that if you put the limit too low... than you wont have enough people to fill it.
I would prefer, and I don't how hard it is to code, a game mode where everyone can participate but only with standard gear.
In the mean time, you should look at the metrics for average war points after about 6 weeks of play, I think that would be the best way to put it.
Maybe 150-200k war points?
I think WP is the best way to do it cause passive sp could push some players right out of IBA who need the practice. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
880
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:16:00 -
[76] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:On Tuesday 14th of May we will be enabling a special instant battle queue for new players called the Instant Battle Academy.
Nice first step.
I would recommend limiting it to 2,500,000 ESP.
Effective Skill Points.
Basically, I would take the character's actual SP multiplied by their KDR as the ESP.
In that way, toons who are good at the pew-pew will exit faster and those who suck at the pew-pew will have it available longer.
--
In an aside...
Any word on PVE and Gladiator modes? |
David Spd
Red Star. EoN.
2
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:24:00 -
[77] - Quote
Could just do what people have been asking... make a gamemode that allows Militia only fittings. New player to Dust doesn't mean new player to FPS. Adding a mode that ONLY new players can enter is teaching newbies to play the wrong way. If you put everybody in a level playing field with gear then skill bonuses don't create as big of a gap in power thanks to militia gear. They still get to experience the difficulty of Dust, but aren't completely destroyed because they don't know what PRO means when they aim at someone.
Make it so that you can't queue up without one valid militia fitting, and after you get in all fits with standard+ gear are red and listed as "invalid fitting". |
Foo Fighting
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
4
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:30:00 -
[78] - Quote
Play style and role has a big influence on SP and WP - why not just say first 100 matches you get a choice.
Although I am a little miffed as I still have a shocking K/D ratio from my first month or two of being stomped - new players would avoid this somewhat while I still have 500 people to kill without dying before I get even |
Panther Alpha
WarRavens Orion Empire
166
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:35:00 -
[79] - Quote
Nice |
neolutumus
TSOE Po1ice TSOE Consortium
0
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:35:00 -
[80] - Quote
I think that the option for an academy should be avail for new players, not the ONLY option. however, no stats should be saved in this gametype, or rather stats reset when academy is no longer avail, as this would discourage vets from padding. WP are a fantastic idea at limiting access to the rookie arena, but should also take into account k/d and allocated SP. This would not even be necessary if there were some sort of PVE, or "closed match" type (ie only invited players join, suits still get expended, but no stats saved), but I realize PVE content is very intensive, and a "closed match" is not necessarily on par with what CCP is going for in this.
as to all you people that say "limit by gear" this would take such a rewrite of code that the game would surely be glitchier than it already is, and if the "closed match" were avail, completely unnecessary. |
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Dazereth the 2nd
Stoned Kloned Killers
38
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:40:00 -
[81] - Quote
You people who keep suggesting 100-200k are missing the big picture, That's still less than 1m SP and everyone knows 1m SP is junk. |
Amedeus Amaral
Mahavishnu Inc.
0
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:41:00 -
[82] - Quote
InsidiousN wrote:Here's a major problem, seeing as WP and stats STILL aren't recorded in Skirmish matches you can have Protos entering these battles.
+1
first post just to agree with this. I played 100+ matches in the human endurance event and only two or three of them were ambush, so my WP totals are super super low, but I have 5mil+ sp.
not that makes me any good at pew pew, but I still enjoy getting schooled by much better snipers more than spending my days stuck in the academy because I enjoy sniping in skirmish.
but on the other hand, my epeen would grow considerably larger popping newbs all day. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2870
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:42:00 -
[83] - Quote
I've been saying this for so long now, happy to see the noobies are finally getting some lovin ^_^ |
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
21
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:48:00 -
[84] - Quote
I think a character that has 2500 kills would be veteran enough to move into real battles. I normally use this kill metric for determining how much a player has played, and how well know the game mechanics.
But considering there are dropship pilots as well as logi that dont always get high kills. You could do a dual qualifier. So once someone hits 5mil sp OR 2500 kills they move onto the "real battles"
This keeps the really good FPS players (2500 kills) out of newb matches as well allows progression for those people who don't kill well. |
RedBleach LeSanglant
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
185
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:48:00 -
[85] - Quote
REWIND: It sounds like people are pushing for two ideas. 1. a safe area to learn dust and learn an FPS. and 2. A place to grow in Dust before hitting the Veteran meat grinders.
Should we not then introduce 2 game modes? The first could be the Nerf Field - only kid gloves here. SP/WP limit and Gear type limit to just militia. Here you can learn the mechanics of the game without going against the vets and have time to experiment with lots of different toys before you kinda get the feel of the play.
The second could be the Academy. SP/WP limit and Allocation Limit. You are now experimenting with higher level gear, there are still no vet level characters but Vet alts are there to guide the way and act as mentors and examples to the newbies and recruit. Here people can get a proto level of one or a few things and see the advantages it has in combat and figure out their play style a little more before feeling confident enough to hit the vet scene. If they have scored a corp that wants them all the better.
THAT being said - I want a militia mode for the vets. it just sounds fun.Many good ideas here.
1. I actually like the limits of 5million allocated SP or 4 million WP. That should be enough time to understand some of the game.
2. I do not agree with the Fitting Limitations for the academy. Everyone in game needs to see what the benefits are of getting to the proto level of something to give them something to work for.
3. Limit the academy to characters not accounts so that vet alts can recruit and help out.
What do you think?
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Dazereth the 2nd
Stoned Kloned Killers
39
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:51:00 -
[86] - Quote
Small player base + More game modes = Bad matchmaking.
We should limit the game modes as much as possible until we get a solid player base capable of supporting what this game needs. |
Coyskurk
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
63
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:59:00 -
[87] - Quote
So when I'm up against the usual pro players I wont be stuck with the horrible, newbie team mates I get thrown at me that are just there to either get in my way or throw me into a cluster hump? Oh God thank you! |
Zatara Rought
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
142
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Posted - 2013.05.10 16:02:00 -
[88] - Quote
This is extremely pleasing. Personally I feel that warpoints is an excellent idea. I don't have any significant reason but 300K warpoints sounds like a good number. 300 matches if you managed to hit over around 1k wp per match. More likely you'd end up playing closer to 600 matches for those who obviously need the help more. 300 matches if played over the course of a month without boosters would have you around 2mill sp in my guestimation.
Anyone think KDR should play a part in it? Can we limit it so there are no tanks? |
ZDub 303
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
70
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Posted - 2013.05.10 16:03:00 -
[89] - Quote
Dazereth the 2nd wrote:Small player base + More game modes = Bad matchmaking.
We should limit the game modes as much as possible until we get a solid player base capable of supporting what this game needs.
Yeah but as it stands we're not getting any new players cause they are tired of being proto stomped into the ground. This change is good for the long term health of this game, even if we take a hit in the short term. |
BMSTUBBY
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
198
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Posted - 2013.05.10 16:05:00 -
[90] - Quote
Based on WP's great Idea!
I still feel the SP cap should be lifted in these battles.
Having Vets join with low level characters and with low WP's and SP's would also not be that bad of an idea.
Think of it this way.
Vets would be looked at like setting AI settings on Veteran level, Vets playing would = Veteran AI mode.
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