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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Disturbingly Bored
Universal Allies Inc.
199
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Posted - 2013.05.11 00:35:00 -
[151] - Quote
YuKnow Edawg84 wrote: I mean i respect your opinion and i didnt know there was a cap on the total amount of sp taht can be spent.
Just so I'm perfectly clear and so I don't give you the wrong impression, there isn't a cap on the amount of SP that can be spent.
Instead, there's only so much you can fit to a given suit, and only so many skills apply to any given fit. Once all the skills associated with your fit are at level 5 (about 10 million SP worth), more SP doesn't help that fit at all.
This means that old vets can't be better than you in any given fit after a certain point, they can just use a larger variety of weapons and suits than you can.
Basically, pick a role and weapon and max it out before moving on to the next, and you can catch up to the vets pretty quickly. That's how I did it in EVE, despite starting four years late. |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic Gentlemen's Agreement
48
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Posted - 2013.05.11 00:45:00 -
[152] - Quote
Quote:The longevity of this game should be found in having meaningful battles in PC. Not in grinding out SP.
Actually i would rather just play an FPS against players with equal Sp/gear then do anything PC or MMO.
I like MMOs and i like the idea of holding property....but looking at what PC actually is i am unimpressed. Fighting over cut and paste rendered maps that i can't even walk on unless i am attacking or defending it is really not all that spectacular. I might play with my Corp in PC but it really is not enough to pull me out. Fundamentally we need more MMO functions in the game for me to care about the little MMO that is being promised with PC on the 14th.
Give the the ability to raid an EvE ship and put an AR to the pilots head.
Give me that and i will MMO CCP's game until the world ends. |
Thor Odinson42
Planetary Response Organization
195
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Posted - 2013.05.11 02:08:00 -
[153] - Quote
Great idea! I think the players in these battles should get more WP for squad orders and such. Maybe fewer for kills as crazy as that sounds.
It would be nice to see them come out of this "academy" with an idea of teamwork and less focus on KDR. |
Ghural
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
78
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Posted - 2013.05.11 02:42:00 -
[154] - Quote
Veteran players should be able to enter these matches, though their available skills should be debuffed and they should be forced into militia gear only, as we would like to be able to recruit these players into our corps which is also important for player retention.
Maybe gets in these matches should receive reduced rewards (or none) as well. |
bcs1a
ROYAL SQUAD Shadow of the Apocalypse
23
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Posted - 2013.05.11 03:14:00 -
[155] - Quote
unless stats are fixed for skirm, it's pointless to even speculate as a player with high SP could have low WP due to primarily playing skirm.
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TODDSTER024
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
54
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Posted - 2013.05.11 03:18:00 -
[156] - Quote
5 million SP should be enough for a cut off. |
Henry DeMartos
Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.05.11 03:50:00 -
[157] - Quote
Murt Lesp wrote:On a similar note: Will there be a limit as to how many of a certain dropsuit is on the battlefield? I'm not complaining but it can be frustrating for any level of player when they engage multiple heavies at a time. 3-4 is tolerable if you RUN, but seeing 8 of them on the field is just insane. Consider a limit of 6 per team in instant battles but no limit in faction or corporation battles. Just a suggestion to help new players or those with less than a month's experience.
If, for example, we put the SP cap at 1 mil-1.5 mil, I don't think there's going to be many heavies running around... |
darkchronos1
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2013.05.11 04:14:00 -
[158] - Quote
Instead of SP or WP caps, can we just use avg Meta level of the gear your using. Militia gear tends to be either meta level 0 or 1. Beginner matches set avg meta level <= 1. Even if higher SP players come into the matches, they will be using the same level of equipment as everyone else, with only a slight advantage. |
Jack Kittinger
DUST University Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2013.05.11 05:48:00 -
[159] - Quote
A new militia gear(or)squad only filter should make things interesting!
On the matter of separating the newbs from protobears I say DON'T.
You either separate ALL of us or NONE of us.
Don't compromise their freedom unless you want that for yourself. You wouldn't want the DUST 514(EVE Universe) experience to be dumbed down if when you hit "vet" status things are going to be different as night and day.
The most important question we should be asking is:
Wouldn't it be easier to use the current UI to bring newbs closer to these "vets" while avoiding a Noob haven?
cus at the end of the day you are only as good as your team!
Don't cram them Newberries into the same room and expect them to get better on their own they MIGHT...now encourage them to mix with vets and use the incredibly versatile chat interface* and they WILL get better. LEARNING is a SOCIAL Process! *You just got rid of the UVT, now make the most of it!!!
Suggestion on the Developer side
Make the game have obvious cues on how to squad, have the voice on the War Barge say something like "got slaughtered? you SHOULD join a squad" not just "Short on time? Buy Aurum today!"
Suggestion on the community side Right now maybe you thought "why do I have to lift a finger?!?! I came here to pew pew and troll the ppl on local chat!" But it takes two to tango and you can't deny that WE are part of the development process even if we're not sporting a CCP before your username or receiving all the moneys from the Merc Packs. Pick people from the War Barge and ask them to join you on the squad comms show them they can be team players, maybe that guy picking his nose and stalking the female scout model didn't know you don't buy OB's you earn them! All I'm saying is this CAN be the best chance to show the best or the worst of the CURRENT DUST community.
TL;DR Stop wasting time on keeping the Newbs out of harm's way. Tweak the mathcmaking system, it can be better. Developers: Encourage Newbs to mingle with the people in chat and join a corp. Bring us ALL together. DUST Merc: Help a newberrie he might be your Logibro for life.
All this time should be spent on getting us the Training Grounds feature faster and not worrying about the newbswarm coming on May 14th. I'm not gonna ask for Jets to come out sooner but that would be nice too :) |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
147
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Posted - 2013.05.11 06:36:00 -
[160] - Quote
We simply need brackets for players to play with people of similar level. I heard someone mention a great idea of level based matches similar to how EVE grades NPC missions.
Level 1 would be joinable by anyone but only militia fits are available and SP should be under 1 million.
Level 2 is joinable by anyone with less than 5 mill and only allow standard gear.
Extrapolate the rest: |
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Domacretus Crux
Blood Oath Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.05.11 06:38:00 -
[161] - Quote
personally putting a specific requirement for the academy will be hard no matter how you look at it because different people learn different things in a different way so not really sure what to go with here what i can say is match's of militia only gear would be great for everyone its completely based on skill and many people rely on their equipment over their skill I've seen it many times its not to say "proto vets" cant be killed with lower fittings but its a lot more work and all the time as of late I've become accustomed to expecting a large amount of proto users on the other team so a level playing ground should be added in my opinion it will help both vets and noobies alike and be a bit more fun and this is a small side note but scouts with nova knives or shotguns are not as easy to get kills with as people like to think it requires steady aim and great timing for the shot gun and for the knives to be in their face so its not as easy as a guy with a HMG aiming at them shooting |
KalOfTheRathi
Talon Strike Force LTD Orion Empire
434
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Posted - 2013.05.11 07:05:00 -
[162] - Quote
One might become concerned if it is like Skirmish. As WP are not currently tracked once one gets to near the limit of New vs Vet simply switch to Skirmish and never get another WP, except in the odd Clone Depletion round.
SP will continue to build and this will allow greater weapons and gear. The lambs will be saved from the lions but will be bedding down with wolves in sheep's WP. |
Domacretus Crux
Blood Oath Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.05.11 07:15:00 -
[163] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:One might become concerned if it is like Skirmish. As WP are not currently tracked once one gets to near the limit of New vs Vet simply switch to Skirmish and never get another WP, except in the odd Clone Depletion round.
SP will continue to build and this will allow greater weapons and gear. The lambs will be saved from the lions but will be bedding down with wolves in sheep's WP. well or hyenas |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
6
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Posted - 2013.05.11 08:43:00 -
[164] - Quote
As others have mentioned, however you do this, *please* allow me to choose.
Also, tiered lobbies or similar would also be great - based on combined meta-level of fittings or something (maybe this has been mentioned, don't have time to read all the posts)
But *please* let me choose. |
Sorry Wrong Chat
Phantom Universe Task Force Orion Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.05.11 09:26:00 -
[165] - Quote
I would like to see a system which is not only working on beginners.
According to the received warpoints there should be at least 3 levels (the more level the better) --> Beginner / Elite / Veteran
Every player can fight in his defined level or in every higher level if wanted.
Higher level gain more ISK than lower levels as compensation.
And since we are able to create Squads with 6 people it is much easier to dominate a fight against 16 enemies.
Depening on the number of mercs the squad sice should be variable.
4 members with 16 mercs per side 6 members with 24 mercs per side 8 members with 32 mercs per side
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Django Quik
R.I.f.t Orion Empire
450
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Posted - 2013.05.11 09:51:00 -
[166] - Quote
I presume this mechanic using WP means that the stats tracking is planned to be fixed in the next 3 days? Otherwise it's just never going to work. |
Synfulwrath
Requiem of Shadows DEADSPACE SOCIETY
0
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Posted - 2013.05.11 10:13:00 -
[167] - Quote
Ive read a lot of interesting things here and too much to try to quote everyone, so ill just bullet what i can remember and what i think. Also please take this into consideration, i do play EVE, Ive been playing for 8 years, my main has 94m SP. So please dont take this reply as me whining that things are too hard. I did my time, i did my waiting in eve. waiting 30+ days for the next "big thing" is nothing to me. Im thinking about all my friends who couldnt stick with eve because they didnt like waiting 21 days to get all the prereqs and minimal skills to fly something they thought would be cool, and it wasnt even T2. Lets not scare away new players by having them stomped every pub match and calculating the months its going to take for them to be on par with the vets and deciding it wasnt worth their time. eve is tough/unforgiving/gobacktowow blah blah blah save it. and anyway if this was true CCP wouldnt have revamped the whole new player process and added such great new agents and rewards and made noob ships useful. anyway i digress...
1. Academy matches. very good idea, goes a long way towards helping to draw in new players. now new players wont get stomped by proto wearing kill squads. there is a larger issue then just being brand new with no dust experience, but ill get into that later i suppose. I like the idea of it being SP capped because even a great player is still limited to what he can equip and use. this can only go so far towards helping out the brand new.
2.SP Tiered MatchingMaking. this i like BUT we cant just depend on caps. for example Noobie123 plays for a couple months, he has a main with 5m SP or so all over the place. he hasnt got any proto gear, but he put his points into things that he thought would make his gaming experience fun. He can use a tank, a dropship, all the non militia weapons some advanced stuff and has improved his suit skills to mostly lvl 3ish. he didnt put everything straight into proto stuff because thats weeks he has to spend grinding SP with no result until he levels that skill up another 400k SP to V and wanted to try other things before he started the proto grind. Veteran123 knew exactly how he wanted to build his toon from the get go and had 0 wasted SP, his toon has full Proto setup and can pretty much 1 shot Noobie123 all day long. Is it Noobie123's fault for wanting a diverse gaming experience? No, i dont believe so. But i also dont think he should be put into the same games as Veteran123. which brings me to WP....
3. WP. ahhh WP... i think this should be incorporated into an ELO system. Thats what this game really needs. In fact, i think this would solve most of the problems. the low SP guys that are really good would eventually be in matchs with some of the higher SP guys that are just pretty under average lol. but the low SP guy with his Skill advantage should be on Par with the low Skill guy and his SP(gear) advantage. so eventually it should even out to roughly even matchs. i wont put a bunch of examples because if you have played a game with an ELO system you know how it works.
4. Meta Levels. assign numbers to gear, hidden of course, but ill use meta levels for now. add up the meta levels and this should be a value to help determine matching. i think some MMO's call it Attack or Might. gives a pretty good idea of potential. this of course doesnt tell you how good they are, just that they have a potential to be good. you can put someone behind the wheel of a civic or skyline but that doesnt mean they can drift on the docks with the big boys.
I think a combination of some of these are a good idea. give the new guys a break, make them fight each other. put a cap on how long they stay there. Graduate them to an ELO type system but have them in a tier with like individuals with similar gear setups. Use WP to make sure high SP guys arent using "lesser" gear to stomp noobies. this should take more thought of course, but its 5am and i cant be arsed to think any much more then i already have lol. theres more i would like to say but im tired of typing and thinking.
whatever your plans i think your going in the right direction. :) |
Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
202
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Posted - 2013.05.11 10:23:00 -
[168] - Quote
It should be based on age of account rather than the toon. There are plenty of players who are very good with low sp toons on their account, that could cause havoc in a match with completely new players. I know that they can create a new free account and grief that way but I hope they don't. We want to grow the size of the community not discourage it.
5 million SP as an upper limit is too high. You can get into a proto Suit and use a proto weapon by then. Hardly the fit of a newbie. I'd say 2mil as an upper limit. This is why WP are a better way to go as an indication of competence.
Any player in a squad led by a new toon that has a higher standing than the new matches allow should be kicked automatically.
It should be a little easier for new players to ease into the brutal world of New Eden. But not too easy.
I fully support these changes. |
Medic 1879
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
277
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Posted - 2013.05.11 12:20:00 -
[169] - Quote
Well seeing as WP wasn't tracked from Feburary till a few days ago allot of people who play mostly skirmish will have high level gear and losts of SP but lowish WP. Also what about people who AFK'd allot they could hit their cap and get lost of SP but no WP so you could have full proto guys playing this if they played allot of skirmish or AFK'd allot. |
Darlime
Prototype Technology Corp.
1
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Posted - 2013.05.11 12:40:00 -
[170] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:On the subject of matchmaking, I have 2 suggestions.
Match squads against other squads: sometimes you just want to just play by yourself and relax, in those cases being matched against squads provides too much of a challenge to be fun, and too little challenge for the squad. If I'm just playing by myself, don't match me against a full squad of some elite corp.
Match players based on ALLOCATED SP: 1 million (allocated) SP or below players get thrown in one battle, 2 million SP and below players get thrown in another battle, etc. Right now I'm saving my SP before specializing so I'm still using militia starter fits, and I keep getting matched with people with prototype weapons and prototype specialized dropsuits; not a pleasant experience at all. Playing against these highly specialized players is too much of a challenge for most, and not enough of a challenge to the proto wearers.
The instant battle academy is a good start, but I really think basing it off allocated SP would be a really good way to put new players against other new players, and work as a good system for everyone else.
I totaly agree whith this. |
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J Lav
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
64
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Posted - 2013.05.11 12:51:00 -
[171] - Quote
I don't like this idea. I am a low SP player, gotcha, but locking out based on an arbitrary SP amount seems silly to me. It reinforces that SP is broken in this game. the gap between a 4m SP and 8m SP player is absolutely massive regardless of their actual skill.
Question, You have meta levels on equipment, why don't you limit the metal level of a suit instead? Make the max meta level of a suit less than 7-8, for newbies, and when fitting, add up the meta of the components of that fit. Make that number known to the player, so we can build low-level fits to play in those matches. Good players would even see it as a challenge to dumb down their kit and still be able to win based on skill. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t Orion Empire
450
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 13:44:00 -
[172] - Quote
J Lav wrote:I don't like this idea. I am a low SP player, gotcha, but locking out based on an arbitrary SP amount seems silly to me. It reinforces that SP is broken in this game. the gap between a 4m SP and 8m SP player is absolutely massive regardless of their actual skill.
Question, You have meta levels on equipment, why don't you limit the metal level of a suit instead? Make the max meta level of a suit less than 7-8, for newbies, and when fitting, add up the meta of the components of that fit. Make that number known to the player, so we can build low-level fits to play in those matches. Good players would even see it as a challenge to dumb down their kit and still be able to win based on skill. CCP didn't say SP; they said WP. Read the OP. It's only players that have been suggesting SP and the dev already said why they chose WP instead of SP (because people get SP passively and haven't necessarily been playing the game much to earn SP). |
Novas The Second
Sector IX Concordokken.
13
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Posted - 2013.05.11 13:54:00 -
[173] - Quote
What about averaging the Meta Level of the equipment that the player is using?
That way, even if you're using a proto suit, you might only be using low level weapons or equipment and your average will still be very low.
Also, separate idea. When you get put into the Academy Battles, you automatically get put into a squad and spawned with that squad in the same location together, thereby teaching new players that playing as a team will get you far better results.
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J Lav
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
65
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Posted - 2013.05.11 14:41:00 -
[174] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:J Lav wrote:I don't like this idea. I am a low SP player, gotcha, but locking out based on an arbitrary SP amount seems silly to me. It reinforces that SP is broken in this game. the gap between a 4m SP and 8m SP player is absolutely massive regardless of their actual skill.
Question, You have meta levels on equipment, why don't you limit the metal level of a suit instead? Make the max meta level of a suit less than 7-8, for newbies, and when fitting, add up the meta of the components of that fit. Make that number known to the player, so we can build low-level fits to play in those matches. Good players would even see it as a challenge to dumb down their kit and still be able to win based on skill. CCP didn't say SP; they said WP. Read the OP. It's only players that have been suggesting SP and the dev already said why they chose WP instead of SP (because people get SP passively and haven't necessarily been playing the game much to earn SP).
Doh! My dislexia kicked in. My mistake, edited |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
361
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Posted - 2013.05.11 14:54:00 -
[175] - Quote
so im going with LOL... CCP has no clue what they are doing, still. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t Orion Empire
451
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Posted - 2013.05.11 15:09:00 -
[176] - Quote
ladwar wrote:so im going with LOL... CCP has no clue what they are doing, still. That's all you've got to say? No better suggestions then? Helpful. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t Orion Empire
451
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Posted - 2013.05.11 15:13:00 -
[177] - Quote
Novas The Second wrote:What about averaging the Meta Level of the equipment that the player is using?
That way, even if you're using a proto suit, you might only be using low level weapons or equipment and your average will still be very low.
Also, separate idea. When you get put into the Academy Battles, you automatically get put into a squad and spawned with that squad in the same location together, thereby teaching new players that playing as a team will get you far better results.
That's getting increasingly complex to do it by meta levels and doesn't stop a vet player with loads of passive skill buffs running low meta gear and griefing newbies while they're trying to learn. At least if it's done by WP, vets can't play unless they make a new alt and even then those alts will be low SP and won't last long before hitting the WP cap.
Edit - also the squad idea wold actually be counter productive because players would never learn how to create squads themselves and might just end up assuming that squads are made automatically. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
36
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Posted - 2013.05.11 15:25:00 -
[178] - Quote
juumole wrote:Sound like a great idea but make it optional for players. Never force a player into anything you don't absolutely have to. Part of the point of playing games is freedom and I think nothing will irritate most gamers more than having a choice made for them.
The more variations the better but I think warpoints would be a bad metric at this point because there are matches where newbs are facing pros and sometimes you just have off matches. Skillpoints would probably be good with multiple tiers in the million point range. About a months worth of play with no skill boosters and maxing each week.
Gear tiered matches would also be fun I think maybe with reduced gains. Sometimes you just want to get on an fool around or test something out and that's hard do with a bunch of protos or tank/ dropships on the map.
Please though include anything as an option, I cant stress this point enough.
+10 |
Moonracer2000
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
478
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Posted - 2013.05.11 15:46:00 -
[179] - Quote
I'm very happy this is being implemented. Here are some thoughts (some are replies to many other good ideas here):
WP metric:[/b ] Seems like a much better idea than SP. I would suggest aiming high as far as when to push people into veteran matches and here is why. A big part of being ready for regular game play is team work, so squading up early with veteran players will act as a kind of soft buffer allowing players to choose for themselves when they are ready to move on.
SP bonus in Academy matches? People mentioned this and I think it is an interesting idea. I would not be opposed to this as it would help players get into the game quickly. Worst case scenario it would allow players to make decent alts quickly? Not sure what the bonus would be. Removing the weekly cap until they hit 1.5 million SP? A 1.5 SP gain bonus (that stacks with boosters)?
[b]Gear Restrictions: I am also for this. making fittings invalid if an item is over a certain meta level would enhance the experience and prevent someone form skilling entirely into a high level weapon to grief early players. It would be a pain to code and explain, since fittings would only be invalid in an academy match (not in the apartment neocom).
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
491
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Posted - 2013.05.11 15:52:00 -
[180] - Quote
You could just put the gear restriction on the suits themselves. A standard level suit doesn't have much room to play with, which would probably be enough to keep people from abusing high level gear to farm newbies. You could try putting that balac's on a standard level suit, but you'll die the moment something sneezes at you. It's simple enough to explain that they could have Dust's version of Aura on the barge actually explaining that this battle only allows militia and standard level suits, or whatever. |
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