I dont even know what HTFU means, or where it came from.

Fix matchmaking.

Release PC. (Good players will move onto fighting for planets)

Let noobs kill each other in pubs.

Problems solved, no more Pubstomping.

Except you can only battle in a specific location one specific hour of a day and it has to be planned in advanced...

Pubstomping isn't going away; lessened a bit, maybe, but definitely not eliminated.

It's not particularly SP that counts; it helps, true, but it's not everything.

Somehow I doubt that the PC is gonna be "Consensual" I feel like, if someone attacks in your timer limit, then...You fight. And I'm well aware it's only for an hour, hence "fix matchmaking" add a weight class deal but instead of weight, have ranges of Used SP.

1 - 200,000
200,000 - 500,000

etc.

If you throw someone new to the game in a protosuit with officer weapons, and throw him against, say, Regnum in a militia suit, I'd put my money on Regnum. Actually, against any of the better players.

I think when the next build comes....corp matches may be all that vets do. So, the pub matches may see a lot of more solo and npc corp players there than anything else.

Although, I don't think that a lot of players will stay away from pub matches if KDR matters to them. Corp matches have a bad habit of bringing KDR down if your KDR is anything over a 1 or 2.

I, personally will probably be in more corp matches than anything else since acceptance of a corp match is no longer required. Especially, when I don't feel like playing pub matches after I've just participated in a corp match. But between defending your territories, attacking others, and helping out your alliance if they ask should keep many vets out of the pub matches.

Remember what happened in those game-show Merc Battles, where people on the floor trying out Dust had Prot-gear and we had maybe Advanced? Remember how they couldn't do anything against people who've been playing Dust for a while?

a removal of active skillpoints

Not Corp matches. PC.

One does not simply call Planetary Conquest a Corp Match

No. Just no.

Yes to the PvE, no to allowing newberries catch up to the vets' SP levels by not playing the game (as in the PvP side of it). If you farm from PvE, all you do is gain SP without any idea where to put it to good use.

As mentioned before by several people in the thread, SP is not particularly the problem. The skill level of the players themselves is generally a reason for concern.

i'm not stating that it should be removed. i'm saying it's something that should be thought about... mostly for the players that don't play as much.

please don't decide my stance on something by selectively quoting what i said haha.

There should be no thoughts about removal of active SP. Why? It discourages people from playing the game. "Why should I play now when I can come back in a year with 6m more SP and be able to jump into much better gear than I can now?"

There is already a soft cap on SP per week, in order to make sure those who aren't as active don't fall too far behind. Don't punish those players who do play a lot, versus those who don't, simply because they're more dedicated (or have more free time) than those who aren't as active.

that soft caps ensures the vets will always stay ahead as if i miss a week gaming or a few days beucase of the Cap i know no matter what i do i will never catch up, thus once your ahead you stay ahead this is why you see AFK farming so much. the skill system needs be done on EvE time system. the current method does not work in shooter

that soft caps ensures the vets will always stay ahead as if i miss a week gaming or a few days beucase of the Cap i know no matter what i do i will never catch up, thus once your ahead you stay ahead this is why you see AFK farming so much. the skill system needs be done on EvE time system. the current method does not work in shooter

There should be no thoughts about removal of active SP. Why? It discourages people from playing the game.

I dont even know what HTFU means, or where it came from.

I have to lol and agree with my English scum corp mate here.

This weekend I travelled back to gods country (ng thWales) and today I thought I would show my 12 year old sister Dust 514. After going through 30 minutes explaining the menu systems etc, it was time for my 12 year old sister, who has never picked up a FPS in her life Dust 514................... and who do we bump into? Deadpool, Gunner nightingale and I3ear and 2 other squads of imperfects in seperate matches lol needless to say, she got 1 kill and 1 death (the kill was a fluke but I won't tell her that)

needless to say, it was carnage.

Oddly enough, there are a bunch of people who play EVE everyday, despite the passive-only SP...and what about games without any leveling at all? Why do people play them?

Because they cannot afford better games?

CCP took AR sights off the AR's to make things more even between new players and vets.

I've started new characters twice before during the open beta and have always remained potent enough with my type-II fits to consistently score in the top four in pub matches.

The only advice I can offer you is to get better.

I run a sever bpo with militia mods all the time(yes I'm poor) and I still top the boards occasionally, I also tend to place in the top 5 with the same fit, and that's against people running adv suits with the odd proto

Type-2 GEK fits are easy mode. My alt can attest to that.

you guys where meant to ignore my rant and bury it :P.

further to point i think my biggest problem is at the moment their is no PvE i love dust but sometimes i want to chill and play which you cant do in dust is either all out or nothing at all so if not having a good day your choice is die in ambush or die in skirmish, their is no gather you strength mode (like in EvE where you could missions or trade or something)

secondly people must remember that the forum communty (just like EvE) does not reflect the player-base only those hardcore enough that want to post as such people here can guide their friends down the right path or know how to do it themselves. The same cannot be said for someone who has just come from BF3 or COD/halo if they go toe-toe in a gunfight a lose due to gear consistently without a clear indicator that the gear is causing the loss, this is what is causing the frustration, if i joined a match going in knowing i could be facing proto gear thats fine. what i would like is the option to join a match where its not a worry. The shear pot luck at the moment makes the game at times very very unfriendly if your at the wrong end of it all the time.

one thing they could do is show the fitting of the top player for that match (horror to some EvE players im sure) or just somthing to show what director a player could head in so even a match that is lost feels constructive they just wasted isk

There's going to be plenty of "non-consensual" fighting, no doubt. The only thing is, you still have to set the battle up in advanced, so in reality you are getting those who want to fight ready to defend (or, you can just give it up; that's always an option)

Stay ahead in SP, yes. As stated before, SP does not matter as much as skill level, situational awareness and teamwork do. As stated before, newberries in protosuits will lose to vets in militia suits (well, they lost when the vets were in adv gear). Knowing when to jump out of cover, when to charge the enemy, when to move position, is vital in this game. If you move out of position with a tank aiming at you, then you're dead. If you charge the enemy when they have a heavy/logi combo, or a logi with an MD, then you're dead. If you run up against five guys and you're on your own, chances are you're dead.

If you can get to a high elevation with a militia AR and shoot at someone from above, there'll be a very high probability that that person will die, even if they're in a proto suit. If you run away from a scout using a shotgun, then chances are you'll survive, instead of going hunting for it. Likewise, don't run towards someone with nova knives.

Knowing when to engage and when not to is essential in this game. SP only confers advantages to those with higher (or better invested) SP. It doesn't grant an "I win" button. As I've said before.

I will say there should be Match making in pug based on KDR and SP combination. but it should be a voluntary pre-enabled option so if people want play with better or worse people they can.

that would be awsome

Some people are arguing that player skill is vastly more important than SP/equipment. The "I can take out proto reds with militia gear so everything is cool" argument.

This is interesting. We currently don't know how widespread (or accurate) this level of skill is. I would assume there is a sort of bell curve of player skill and maybe only the top 5% of players are this skilled. This seems reasonable to believe, but it also invalidates the argument if only 5% of players can do well with a fresh character against SP advantaged players.

Looking at average players with similar player skills you might notice a significant difference in performance depending how much of an SP/equipment advantage they hold. And this would matter more because it would affect a larger percentage of the player base. But we don't have an easy way to judge player skill without mixing in SP/equipment into the equation.

Regardless of if it is true or just a scapegoat, it is a perceived imbalance in the game. If players feel like they can't compete primarily because they haven't hit cap every week since open beta started, they may give up on the game and leave. That is not a good thing.

It's not really the skill points of individual players...but the teams that you are on. Within the first week, you can create a formidable fit that will give you a chance in matches if you have skill. Type II dropsuit and a couple of shield extenders and you should be fine.

What happens is that you're running solo and placed across full squads of higher geared and teamwork-oriented players and that's why you have trouble. And it appears as if it's just only about gear when it is really about the teams. If you were placed in a match where everyone is solo and maybe one proto player on the other side......your experience will be different. Because tbh, many players are not using higher than STD gear in pub matches.

I already know that many of you will rage on me, but a general (basic shield/armor and modules) HP nerf would probably be the solution. Smart/reactive players would win a 1vs1 against a proto. This would encourage new people to play dust, and would give veterans a new incentive... just my 0.02 isk

Funny thing is - I see lots of corpless guys running around in ADV and PRO gear. It means absolutely nothing compared to him just being in MLT. No matter how much SP these guys accumulate they're bottom feeders for life until they learn how community based this game really is. A corp - or more important your squad - make or break your gameplay here.

But the bottom line of this conversation is hard to discuss. All the new players didn't have half a year to a year to decide what's a bad SP investment, so there actual SP totals don't reflect there ability to preform.

Regardless of if it is true or just a scapegoat, it is a perceived imbalance in the game. If players feel like they can't compete primarily because they haven't hit cap every week since open beta started, they may give up on the game and leave. That is not a good thing.

I have to disagree with the OP I do just fine on my alts that are all hovering around 1 mil SP.

Its hard but the main problem is the perception of inequality, think back to the first FPS you played MP, I know I got my ass handed to me for 10s of matches in a row before I figured things out, now add to that the knowledge that some of the gear is better then what you have, and it becomes easy to blame gear and skills for your own short coming and give up on the game.

Nubs need a .....relatively....... safe place to learn, and pros need consistent fights to improve, once again, we need segregation, not forced but there none the less.


TLDR
one of the more significant demonstration of the effect of mixing new players and skilled players was playing soul caliber 2, I challenged a friend who didn't play much having played religiously for a couple of years. he button mashed and I play in a cool planed manner...... I didn't do very well the first round but adapted by regressing my level of play to a controlled spamming of attacks to head off the continuous onslaught of my button mashing opponent, instead of the neat attack counter attack etc I had learned to use fighting good players. I didn't lose another round but my game was not improved either. Tho I did come to a understanding that when faced with brute force the better option is to respond with better organized brute force.

You see this all the time in matches in dust the better team wins by being better at out rushing and not by tactics, because both teams have too many new and unskilled players to do anything else, and yes this is what corp matches are for, but organized preplanned matches where bragging right are on the line are not the best place for emergent game play and should not be the only place that it can happen. This is where FW matches can fill the gap if they are tiered.

Although for every level increase the payouts for time in match should be reduced significantly and only participation(read WP(read DS need to be fixed)) should be rewarded.

out of experiment today i rolled a new alt and after 4-5 rounds of blind frustration that no matter what i did i was not going to kill anything above a basic player, i want back to old character and notice that because i dont play nearly as much as a i used too. im now getting face panned because i don't have the leet gear required to compete. My skill no longer matters at all.

and im starting to worry that the reason i dont see many newb corps in the scoreboards anymore is that anyone new gets facerolled in minutes, and just goes to pick something else up. their are three heavy hitters coming out in the next few months and I know one has already taken a large hit on the vet playerbase because i saw them all running around in it. Put simply unlike in EvE if your a new guy in dust or player who simply does not have the time to keep up. You will lose end off no question.

and before the trolls common here going HTFU. In EvE you have other things to do if your on a bad roll. in Dust thier is no other option than lose, and that will bleep players like no tomorrow, Every other shooter out their has things in place if you cant compleat in dust the vets and newbs are throw together and surprise surprise.

i dont really know how to make my point other than Dust is building it self up for a legacy issue that has plaged EvE. Vets will remain godlike and newbs will never ever be able to catch up, this gap is becoming wider and wider every month and simply don't see how in the current gameplay this can be fixed, my key worry is that 5 month in, myself someone who is been hear from the start can no longer gain any enjoyment due to constant frustrating not enjoyable fights match after match to point i just quit beucase i can tell after 3 minutes if im going to win or lose.

fix the game progression before you kill off your own game.

put another way, on other beta forums i see nothing but people looking forward to its release, on here i still see nothing but problems and new patch is completely untested and already had has holes poked in it. In my honest view this game needs to go back to drawing board and work out what type of game it wants to be because right now its failing to even do the basics right

Its hard but the main problem is the perception of inequality, think back to the first FPS you played MP, I know I got my ass handed to me for 10s of matches in a row before I figured things out, now add to that the knowledge that some of the gear is better then what you have, and it becomes easy to blame gear and skills for your own short coming and give up on the game.

Nubs need a .....relatively....... safe place to learn, and pros need consistent fights to improve, once again, we need segregation, not forced but there none the less.


TLDR
one of the more significant demonstration of the effect of mixing new players and skilled players was playing soul caliber 2, I challenged a friend who didn't play much having played religiously for a couple of years. he button mashed and I play in a cool planed manner...... I didn't do very well the first round but adapted by regressing my level of play to a controlled spamming of attacks to head off the continuous onslaught of my button mashing opponent, instead of the neat attack counter attack etc I had learned to use fighting good players. I didn't lose another round but my game was not improved either. Tho I did come to a understanding that when faced with brute force the better option is to respond with better organized brute force.

You see this all the time in matches in dust the better team wins by being better at out rushing and not by tactics, because both teams have too many new and unskilled players to do anything else, and yes this is what corp matches are for, but organized preplanned matches where bragging right are on the line are not the best place for emergent game play and should not be the only place that it can happen. This is where FW matches can fill the gap if they are tiered.

Although for every level increase the payouts for time in match should be reduced significantly and only participation(read WP(read DS need to be fixed)) should be rewarded.

More than anything, I think the worst part is many vets like to act like they're really good, when in reality, they rely heavily on SP and bad players to carry them high up into the leaderboards

Here's hoping the next build splits us up a little bit better, so new players can actually ::gasp:: enjoy matchmaking.

I will say there should be Match making in pug based on KDR and SP combination. but it should be a voluntary pre-enabled option so if people want play with better or worse people they can.

I can do pretty well with my ALTS. So I respectfully disagree with you.

Not only that, but the majority of people rely solely on their K/D ratios.

I encourage some folks, if time is available, to head to the ign community to help the Dust 514 thread.

It is all about teamwork and fps skill. Kade is correct. No amount of SP or gear makes me a better merc. The quality of my team, ability of my squad and skill at fps as an individual is the only thing that determines the out come. I am terrible at shooters and if I lone wolf I usually rank at the bottom in WP and kills. If I join a squad and we play as a group and communicate with each other I am in the to 5 from both teams. My skill didn't increase and I have the same gear. Tactics and team work - as with all things military - win in the end.

"If we hit that bulls eye the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...checkmate."

I can do pretty well with my ALTS. So I respectfully disagree with you.

I dont even know what HTFU means, or where it came from.

The problem is people come into the game thinking they are king of cod and get knocked down a notch. New players should be forced to watch the "training" movie about 10 times. 99% of the information needed to play, upgrade and specialize is in that movie. New players and old players alike make bad SP choices, so what. My 13 year old son had no problems at all starting and learning to skill. Matter of fact his first character - the one he plays all the time - had the passive SP turned off and was only collecting active SP. He has been playing for two months with no active. He does well with 600k SP and loves the game. The person who is do the crying fault that the game is too complicated and they can't understand it. It is math, learn it. Read. It is amazing what you can learn by reading and then stopping to think. I have not helped my son (with the exception of turning on passive SP after seeing his earned SP was so low) at all, I did not explain anything, tell him how to specialize or recommend a corp. He is not a super genius and knew nothing of EVE or DUST before Jan 21 of this year. The argument that the new players are behind and cannot compete with vets is invalid and to be honest is silly. All games that have a multiplayer part have a learning curve for new players to over come. People who rage quit are the same people who don't read, do math or try. Suck it up and stop crying. I have brought at least 6 new players to the game. They all have said that it is complicated but none have quit because they can read, do math and have some social skills that allow them to become better and join squads and corporations. The people who are crying for new player bonuses, respecs and whatever else are mad because they suck at the game or just like crying about people better than themselves.

A TRAINING SYSTEM.

Post Script
If you plan on replying telling me why repecs are bad ideas don't bother. The thread was many pages, I've heard all the excuses and still disagree. It's the easiest and quickest solution to the issue. Which is, if new players don't start getting put through a thorough training system soon and I do mean soon, then they need someone to throw them a bone somewhere... and if CCP hasn't already made a killer training simulator that's just waiting for implementation and the go ahead from SONY, there's no other bone available. Newbs be rage quitting.

The problem is people come into the game thinking they are king of cod and get knocked down a notch. New players should be forced to watch the "training" movie about 10 times. 99% of the information needed to play, upgrade and specialize is in that movie. New players and old players alike make bad SP choices, so what. My 13 year old son had no problems at all starting and learning to skill. Matter of fact his first character - the one he plays all the time - had the passive SP turned off and was only collecting active SP. He has been playing for two months with no active. He does well with 600k SP and loves the game. The person who is doing the crying is at fault for the game is too complicated and they can't understand it. It is math, learn it. Read. It is amazing what you can learn by reading and then stopping to think. I have not helped my son (with the exception of turning on passive SP after seeing his earned SP was so low) at all, I did not explain anything, tell him how to specialize or recommend a corp. He is not a super genius and knew nothing of EVE or DUST before Jan 21 of this year. The argument that the new players are behind and cannot compete with vets is invalid and to be honest is silly. All games that have a multiplayer part have a learning curve for new players to over come. People who rage quit are the same people who don't read, do math or try. Suck it up and stop crying. I have brought at least 6 new players to the game. They all have said that it is complicated but none have quit because they can read, do math and have some social skills that allow them to become better and join squads and corporations. The people who are crying for new player bonuses, respecs and whatever else are mad because they suck at the game or just like crying about people better than themselves.

You used crying twice in a sentence. Luckily it was the final sentence in your paragraph so i actually did read the whole thing. Some things about what you said really strike me as odd though. Your son is 13? Prime video gamer age and he needs help from his father to play a video game? You said he didn't, but he did, he missed his passive booster gains for 2 months ... two months, that's pretty big. It's understandable though, after all he's not a super genius or anything. Maybe you should have sat him down and forced him to watch the same video TEN TIMES... to bad there's no proper training system.

Anyway, not to burst your big bubble of super non genius family and friends, but the people in this thread are not newbs. They are trying to help newbs and DUST's player retention. OK I lied. I'm trying to burst your bubble. Maybe you should read this thread again. Silly and invalid.... indeed.

This is an idea I could get behind. But because of the changing nature of DUST, it's unreasonable for a pre-designed system to be kept up-to-date on all the relevant information. Covering the basics THOROUGHLY is already done in the intro video, but there isn't much in-game encouragement to pay attention, and there isn't enough emphasis on "seriously, you DO want to know more. When I'm asking that, it's only a courtesy. Saying 'no' is a stupid idea and will get you murdered horribly and repeatedly.

Another good option is to encourage a "mentor" program - or recommend DUST University and other training Corps.

Maybe they could make teh NPC Corps fucntion more like mentor programs for new players. Experienced players are given some kind of encouragement/incentive to help out new arrivals to the game, by placing their characters (or alts) into a position of authority within one of the NPC Corps, and when a new player needs help, they get handed off to a more experienced player who shows them the ropes.


So if you've heard all the reasons and you disagree, then you have a solid argument to counter them? Because if so, you should probably share that in one of the respec threads, because I certainly haven't seen anything resembling a compelling argument in favour of a respec in any of them yet.

Why are you insulting the man's son for? You think that anyone here is going to like you more for being a jerk?

[You used crying twice in a sentence. Luckily it was the final sentence in your paragraph so i actually did read the whole thing. Some things about what you said really strike me as odd though. Your son is 13? Prime video gamer age and he needs help from his father to play a video game? You said he didn't, but he did, he missed his passive booster gains for 2 months ... two months, that's pretty big. It's understandable though, after all he's not a super genius or anything. Maybe you should have sat him down and forced him to watch the same video TEN TIMES... to bad there's no proper training system.

Anyway, not to burst your big bubble of super non genius family and friends, but the people in this thread are not newbs. They are trying to help newbs and DUST's player retention. OK I lied. I'm trying to burst your bubble. Maybe you should read this thread again. Silly and invalid.... indeed.

or at the very least have peoples mics starting in the on position.

There's certainly no possibility his son was using passive SP to train up an alt while using his main, right?
There's certainly no possibility his son's main was created on the father's account and he kept the passive SP on his own character, right?

I've seen a 17 year old with multiple learning disabilities pick the game up and come out with a 4:1 KDR at the end of his first day. He has severe enough dyslexia that he was put into remedial classes for almost everything in High School, and not only was he good at the FPS gameplay, but he managed to figure out the skill system and the basics of the marketplace just fine by watching the tutorials and being patient with all the on-screen text.

I lost count a LONG time ago of how many times I've said this.

Voice NEEDS to default to "on" - and with the PTT button in a less-than-intuitive position on the d-pad, it would be nice to see that default to "off" as well. Been calling for both of those things since they added PTT, and before PTT I was asking for voice to default to on. Still hasn't happened.

Ok ok, some people can figure it out, we all know that, all of us did right? I have only been arguing the point that this game is missing the real tutorials that all games have now. Not the reading kind, the hands on move your guy shoot at things this is how this works walkthrough that everybody has become accustomed to. Without it, we're losing people as the SP gap grows and the problem compounds.

There's certainly no possibility his son was using passive SP to train up an alt while using his main, right?
There's certainly no possibility his son's main was created on the father's account and he kept the passive SP on his own character, right?

I've seen a 17 year old with multiple learning disabilities pick the game up and come out with a 4:1 KDR at the end of his first day. He has severe enough dyslexia that he was put into remedial classes for almost everything in High School, and not only was he good at the FPS gameplay, but he managed to figure out the skill system and the basics of the marketplace just fine by watching the tutorials and being patient with all the on-screen text.

your TLDR was longer then your original statement lol

Takahiro - sec status really doesn't help. As stated before in this thread, SP isn't the great leveller - actual skill levels are. If you have lightning fast reflexes, and precision aiming, you're going to do much better than someone who's been playing nothing but strategy games for the last five years, assuming equal SP. The game is more about teamwork and situational awareness than proper fighting ability - an assault dropsuit can be dropped in as little as half a second by another assault. If you're caught with your pants down, no matter how good you are, chances are you're dead.

The problem is not a problem at all.
First, once PvE comes around, new players will have a way to catch up.

Second, they should do what EVE players do, instead of being all around good they should specialize.
You don't see my crying in EVE that my character has 10mil SP when people around me have 100mil.

In my experience with mics I have found that if there is no mic connected then the open mics get garbage. I like the mics off. If you have a mic then you should be aware of the settings. However, I would like a setting that turned the push to talk into a toggle on /off.

He only has made one character and our PlayStations are totally separate. I have my own personal account and he has his

Again, for the last kittening time, the SP gap is not a problem. The problem is the skill levels of the players themselves. You can very well hold your own in a militia fit. A friend I introduced to the game a couple days ago went 3/4 in his first ambush, with 4 assists.

And you really don't need a tutorial for "this is how to aim. This is how to move. This is how to shoot, this is how to ADS." Those are controls people will test out at their earliest convenience. Not to mention that the controls are shown in the loading screens anyway. A couple of games and you get used to it.

Yeah, actually I agree to a point. The tutorial I was thinking about was a bit more hands on though. Maybe playing through several scenarios like,... cross the field and hack objective A,, then you cross the field and if you don't move from cover to cover you get pegged by a sniper. Or.... keep your heavy alive mission, where you're a logi and he's taking fire and you have to repair / revive him until he kills the attackers... or stick with your squad mission etc etc. I can think of a few games that have stuff like this and you simply can't start the game until it's clear that you get it and passed the tutorial. Something like this would really introduce new players into this FPS's gameplay and make them better newbs.

But I digress, I think this game will succeed regardless.... it would just be a WONDERFUL addition.

Edit:
Oh come on Garret, haha,,,, I wasn't insulting his son. He said his son didn't turn on his passive. It's safe to move on.

that soft caps ensures the vets will always stay ahead as if i miss a week gaming or a few days beucase of the Cap i know no matter what i do i will never catch up, thus once your ahead you stay ahead this is why you see AFK farming so much. the skill system needs be done on EvE time system. the current method does not work in shooter

I dont even know what HTFU means, or where it came from.

The lesson is pay attention, read, do math, ask questions and find a group. You know, real life skills. This game is no harder than the first day of anything. People feel that they should be equal to everyone and that isn't true in any situation, including this game. CCP should not have to hold people's hands and explain everything in detail. If a merc doesn't have the time, ability or intelligence to play a game then they have more problems than a crappy tutorial.

as an exercise try grouping with randoms in the NPC corps and find out how lost most players are :P

out of experiment today i rolled a new alt and after 4-5 rounds of blind frustration that no matter what i did i was not going to kill anything above a basic player, i want back to old character and notice that because i dont play nearly as much as a i used too. im now getting face panned because i don't have the leet gear required to compete. My skill no longer matters at all.

and im starting to worry that the reason i dont see many newb corps in the scoreboards anymore is that anyone new gets facerolled in minutes, and just goes to pick something else up. their are three heavy hitters coming out in the next few months and I know one has already taken a large hit on the vet playerbase because i saw them all running around in it. Put simply unlike in EvE if your a new guy in dust or player who simply does not have the time to keep up. You will lose end off no question.

and before the trolls common here going HTFU. In EvE you have other things to do if your on a bad roll. in Dust thier is no other option than lose, and that will bleep players like no tomorrow, Every other shooter out their has things in place if you cant compleat in dust the vets and newbs are throw together and surprise surprise.

i dont really know how to make my point other than Dust is building it self up for a legacy issue that has plaged EvE. Vets will remain godlike and newbs will never ever be able to catch up, this gap is becoming wider and wider every month and simply don't see how in the current gameplay this can be fixed, my key worry is that 5 month in, myself someone who is been hear from the start can no longer gain any enjoyment due to constant frustrating not enjoyable fights match after match to point i just quit beucase i can tell after 3 minutes if im going to win or lose.

fix the game progression before you kill off your own game.

put another way, on other beta forums i see nothing but people looking forward to its release, on here i still see nothing but problems and new patch is completely untested and already had has holes poked in it. In my honest view this game needs to go back to drawing board and work out what type of game it wants to be because right now its failing to even do the basics right

Reseting stats now or a year from now makes NO difference other then your telling CCP that there game plan is broken. What does it matter if we're a head already - a year from now we'll be 10 times further a long when new people just start out. If CCP does a reset after CLEARLY stating there will be none there will be problems.

I'm totally against a reset as it kills the point CCP is trying to make.

Reset is not so bad...You will still kill and get all ya boosters back and just have to do it one more time. Taking a small disadvantage for giving you more victims is not so bad. This game WILL NOT last 10 years if it's all just the veterans who are playing it lol. Open your mind man, look past 5 ft in front of you. IF they don't reset they can do the tier idea as I said BUT I think cutting the population up that many divides will feel like the game is dead. You don't wanna play the exact same people every single game that is when you know it's dead and Destiny will finish it off or any other game that has potential maybe Confrontation2 with real budget and time frame. IF you reset at least you are doing everything to reach out to gamers and build your community. Either way I will get my kills, I rather enjoyed the beginning of the game and slapping everybody out the way it was fun. Even now the game isn't bad I don't AFK farm I like playing it. So either way I am fine with, I am simply posting ideas out there so the game lasts and not dies.

Lol, I love this whole CCP has to stick to their word junk... What Company has 100% stuck to their word... If they were soo perfect where are they today? The Government lies look at them they are still up and going. Let's not hold them to their word it never works.

Cool - let's just not trust them at all. Yea, that's the kind of company I want to give my money to.

Can you stop posting now? You're just being conflictive without constructive points.

Um if you want to not trust a company because they do something that is YOUR stupidity. Things always change there is nobody out there that tells you one thing and delivers on their word 100% circumstances change always. Perhaps get your head out the fairy tales and live a little life.

That was mean I am sorry. All I am saying is the person who made this thread is telling the truth there is a huge curve and to fix that you want players all on the same level ESPECIALLY day1 of your commercial release it's releasing games 101. There hasn't been much if any games that give beta testers such a HUGE advantage over commercial released players. That game would not be successful if this scares you let's play a game of FUDGE OFF..You go first...

You definitely have no idea what you're talking about and are probably ignorant of all the legal problems CCP is facing right now because they say one thing then do another...

But hey - maybe Bethesda turned this into a trend like Kain did to AFK farming. Who needs to trust there companies word anymore?

What a lot of people do not seem to get is that if things do not change soon with this game it will not go far. A lot of people who I know think that the SP is the end all be all. That may not be the case but that perception is not helping this game at all.

The IGN boards were mentioned earlier and there was a lot of truth in that comment. Many people are not thrilled with this game. I did what I could to introduce it to my friends on PSN. Many of them started the game but all but a couple still even play it.

Vets, let's be honest. None of us are here because we find this game thrilling - it may be fun to play still because of the community/friends/fun drama, but it got dull and repetitive back in November. We're still here because we're looking to prepare for the future that this game promises. If this was all there is to it - just shooting each other - I'd quit right now and never look back.

I'm here for the META and nothing but. That and the RTS element we were promised then ignored.

Vets, let's be honest. None of us are here because we find this game thrilling - it may be fun to play still because of the community/friends/fun drama, but it got dull and repetitive back in November. We're still here because we're looking to prepare for the future that this game promises. If this was all there is to it - just shooting each other - I'd quit right now and never look back.

I'm here for the META and nothing but. That and the RTS element we were promised then ignored.

So YOU and the "vets" should be rewarded for AFK farming? anyways wipe no wipe either way is fine. Let's get back to this dumb CCP is facing LEGAL issues because they haven't 100% delivered on their words for a damn BETA lol you are clearly making crap up. You can't sue a company for not making their BETA version to your standards.

Remember what happened in those game-show Merc Battles, where people on the floor trying out Dust had Prot-gear and we had maybe Advanced? Remember how they couldn't do anything against people who've been playing Dust for a while?

Your a glutton for punishment :\

Early merc packs said there'd be refunds for commercial launch or some such. Commercial launch means official release - CCP says it means Open Beta. America terminology disagrees. That's a major legal issue and anyone could take it up and sue them for infringement. That's a PERFECT example of CCP saying one thing then doing another. A thing NONE of us wants in our company.

Again you are shining with flying colors in the art of stupidity OPEN BETA IS NOT Commercial Release. BETA is pre release product. Commercial Release is the final product release for the general public. Yes the OPEN Beta is released to the general public but it is still a BETA.

Again I say...got a link?!?!

Not true... I started again a couple of weeks ago after taking a break for 7 months. I'd effectively not played since the middle of closed beta. I came back, and true, I went 46/70 in my first few games, but after that I came back and I'm currently hovering at about 1.1 KDR. Around that, anyway, I'm not near my PS3 so I can't check the stats.

So having gone away for 6 months (not having played any shooter whatsoever), coming back to the game with only 500k SP, with my favourite character starting off in the wrong profession (arbiter instead of enforcer) I still, within a week, started going positive on every game. I usually get over 1.5k WP on skirmish, normally above 600 on ambush, and that's with 1.1m SP.

It's not particularly SP that counts; it helps, true, but it's not everything. Situational awareness and teamwork are much better at determining how well you do. If you want to lone wolf it, then fine, be prepared to have a bad kdr and be ready to QQ. But don't make it simply about SP - higher SP simply gives you an advantage, not an "I win" button.

I refuse - Anyone I care about around here already knows and your nobody to waste that sort of effort on. The basis of this conversation is as such : RESET IS DUMB.

You cannot simply come to a conclusion on this topic based on your own skill level and success, not everybody is as good as you nor do people play the game as often. Fact is, no NEW casual player can pick up this game and have even a small remote sense of fun because of the matchmaking.

Not really i role militia fits all day everyday and seem to be still getting a high k/d but also this wont be much of a problem when the whole high sec and null sec come into play

You cannot simply come to a conclusion on this topic based on your own skill level and success, not everybody is as good as you nor do people play the game as often. Fact is, no NEW casual player can pick up this game and have even a small remote sense of fun because of the matchmaking.

I know you from DCUO I am xJenovax

Im sorry im not that nstomper you know from dcuo , i met that guy a while ago on C.A.M ( come at me ) suicideslums.enjin.com and we basically got things covered my old name on here was nutt stomper and i had to change it

out of experiment today i rolled a new alt and after 4-5 rounds of blind frustration that no matter what i did i was not going to kill anything above a basic player, i want back to old character and notice that because i dont play nearly as much as a i used too. im now getting face panned because i don't have the leet gear required to compete. My skill no longer matters at all.

and im starting to worry that the reason i dont see many newb corps in the scoreboards anymore is that anyone new gets facerolled in minutes, and just goes to pick something else up. their are three heavy hitters coming out in the next few months and I know one has already taken a large hit on the vet playerbase because i saw them all running around in it. Put simply unlike in EvE if your a new guy in dust or player who simply does not have the time to keep up. You will lose end off no question.

and before the trolls common here going HTFU. In EvE you have other things to do if your on a bad roll. in Dust thier is no other option than lose, and that will bleep players like no tomorrow, Every other shooter out their has things in place if you cant compleat in dust the vets and newbs are throw together and surprise surprise.

i dont really know how to make my point other than Dust is building it self up for a legacy issue that has plaged EvE. Vets will remain godlike and newbs will never ever be able to catch up, this gap is becoming wider and wider every month and simply don't see how in the current gameplay this can be fixed, my key worry is that 5 month in, myself someone who is been hear from the start can no longer gain any enjoyment due to constant frustrating not enjoyable fights match after match to point i just quit beucase i can tell after 3 minutes if im going to win or lose.

fix the game progression before you kill off your own game.

put another way, on other beta forums i see nothing but people looking forward to its release, on here i still see nothing but problems and new patch is completely untested and already had has holes poked in it. In my honest view this game needs to go back to drawing board and work out what type of game it wants to be because right now its failing to even do the basics right

You were right to expect a bit of rage. This idea is a huge step towards CoD and I'd be very pissed if CCP considered it.

I'd hate Dust if it become a CoD clone, I'm not talking about "one shot" people, but, for example, instead of 45 Militia AR shots to kill a full proto lower it to 15-20. Game would be faster (not too much) and smart guys can go behind protos and kill them easily. If I had a new char and I try to do this on my own first character, the first character would have all the time to turn around, smoke a cigarette, laugh on my militia suit and kill me!

I'm sorry but what?

New players or players with no mentors/corp either don't know what they're doing or they need help.

Pubstomps happen everyday with players getting 0 kills and quitting the game. If you're going to sit here and basically say HTFU then you MUST be one of those players who don't see the consequence of all of this in the long run.

Once the flow of players become stale, and we're all facing the same people over and over and over again, the game will not be fun.

No one has to be "equal" but we must take into account the major differences between newer players or and older players.

If anything we need a match making system that's based on SP. Those in the 2 Mil or less get grouped together. Those in the 3-4 mil get grouped together. Those in the 5-6 mil get grouped together and 7-mil onward is fair game. And if players squad up together, the average of their SP count should be taken and used to placed them in a match.

Something like that would be a way better system than just letting the newbies waste their ISK against us.

I think a reset is pointless. Even if they did, after a month we'll be in the same situation. People who played since the reset will have their fancy gear and any new players will be getting slaughtered and bitching about it on the forums. Or they'll leave. Some might even call for another reset.

All they really need to do is have match making working properly. Newbs can play with newbs and all the ****-socking, no-lifers in protogear can play with eachother. Let's also not forget PVE should be working by then as well so the noobs will be able to farm their SP from rouge drones and whatnot.

I'm really not keen on grinding up my SP for a third time. I'd do it of course but fecking hell my patience is getting thin.

Roy, the very large majority of good players will be spending the very large majority of their time in FW and PC, leaving instant battles in high sec for new players to battle each other in.

See. I honestly believed in that beforehand until I read someone's post in the forums which gave a good reason why PC won't stop the good players from hopping into instances. Can't remember the exact words though.

I'm seriously hoping that my doubts are wrong in the end so that newer players come in, and we get a good circulation.

Crafting.

/discussion

Again, almost every MMO ever made has the grind up to level cap. Dust 514 is no different. Once you grind up to proto gear you can't get any more powerful, and you basically start grinding what would be in other games, another class. In this particular game, your main just gets to switch classes at will.

Once you've levels your first set of full proto, you have effectively "caught up" to the people who have been playing longer than you.

The more casual gamers will leave after getting 0 kills and their ass beat. I know because I have friends who QQ to me about how Dust "sucks" because they can't achieve much at the start.

Edit: Idec if they can't achieve crap but if they're going 0 all day, every day and barely making 1k SP a round while trying the best they can. Something's up.

Yes. Casual players do matter because Dust 514 is supposed to integrate casuals into some of it's gameplay. At least have it so that players who haven't officially gotten 2 mil must start off in an "Easier" battle.

You wouldn't put an athlete after days worth of training in a competition with someone who's been practicing for years, right? Of course this is a exaggeration in terms of scale but the issue holds true. Players who have 4 Mil SP know what they're doing. Any player you know that has about 4 Mil SP and doesn't know what they're doing is a part of a minority.

You know what I can do with 4 Mil SP focused on one thing compared to a merc with just 1 Mil SP? A whole lot. So much the player would think it's unfair and it is, in fact, not fair. I don't care how good of an aim you have, you penetrating a Proto-wearing Pub-Stomper in a militia suit is most likely not happening without your skills being really focused into it. You can't run as fast as them. You can't fire as fast as them. You can't reload as fast as them. But you do die a whole lot faster than anyone.

I'm all about HTFU but there are certain areas that this doesn't apply to.

I was more than sure my match-making idea wasn't perfect but it's at least a step in the right direction. Something needs to be done about this, and if not Dust will take a critical hit. It definitely won't fail but it won't be as successful as it should be.

The more casual gamers will leave after getting 0 kills and their ass beat. I know because I have friends who QQ to me about how Dust "sucks" because they can't achieve much at the start.

Edit: Idec if they can't achieve crap but if they're going 0 all day, every day and barely making 1k SP a round while trying the best they can. Something's up.

Yes. Casual players do matter because Dust 514 is supposed to integrate casuals into some of it's gameplay. At least have it so that players who haven't officially gotten 2 mil must start off in an "Easier" battle.

You wouldn't put an athlete after days worth of training in a competition with someone who's been practicing for years, right? Of course this is a exaggeration in terms of scale but the issue holds true. Players who have 4 Mil SP know what they're doing. Any player you know that has about 4 Mil SP and doesn't know what they're doing is a part of a minority.

You know what I can do with 4 Mil SP focused on one thing compared to a merc with just 1 Mil SP? A whole lot. So much the player would think it's unfair and it is, in fact, not fair. I don't care how good of an aim you have, you penetrating a Proto-wearing Pub-Stomper in a militia suit is most likely not happening without your skills being really focused into it. You can't run as fast as them. You can't fire as fast as them. You can't reload as fast as them. But you do die a whole lot faster than anyone.

I'm all about HTFU but there are certain areas that this doesn't apply to.

I was more than sure my match-making idea wasn't perfect but it's at least a step in the right direction. Something needs to be done about this, and if not Dust will take a critical hit. It definitely won't fail but it won't be as successful as it should be.

So YOU and the "vets" should be rewarded for AFK farming? anyways wipe no wipe either way is fine. Let's get back to this dumb CCP is facing LEGAL issues because they haven't 100% delivered on their words for a damn BETA lol you are clearly making crap up. You can't sue a company for not making their BETA version to your standards.

I have created 5 characters to mess with different weapons and left them all around 550k sp and all of them have a KDR >2.0 playing purely ambush. Even on my main and first character I run mostly militia gear, (the first militia suit with 2 equipment slots, militia shield extenders, militia armor reps, and an exile, the refit costs 1.6k isk) and as a result I have accumulated 50 million isk with a KDR of 2.0 and around 1500 kills.

With that said experience and skills matters up to a point for example it is impossible to kill a a decent skilled person with 3 complex shield extenders because you cant put them down with 1 clip of the AR at least the militia one (chalked that from personal experience). However, I created a Shot gunner and I have no problems taking down a heavy/assault proto players with just the militia shotgun provided i get the jump on them.

So it might be more difficult to kill someone with more sp it is not impossible and anyone thinks they can go toe to toe with someone with more SP they are dreaming. Part of being a good player is knowing your weakness and adjusting your play style.

stop trolling dude start a separate thread if you care so much get back to the topic at hand.

I see where your getting at - but balancing heavies shield/HP has been a huge task for CCP and I doubt they'd want to go through that hell again after finding a balance the community agrees with. I like where your headed with your idea - but idk if it would fit right in dust.

In every game ever made new players have a disadvantage.

If people are getting there ass kicked there not gonna leave just for that reason. They would have not much interest in the game in the first place.

The problem with that is that every other shooter has a skill level cap to where eventually,everyone will hit it,no matter how much or little you play.Since there's no level cap,there are some players that don't play enough to keep up with the pack.The thing is though,that's totally on them,but it's still a double edged sword that can end up hurting the game.

the lesson is tiered contracts some place that will draw the pros to play somewhere other newbear central with better rewards.

I have the same problem on my Alt. It's just so far behind in SP that getting it requires lots of time. However I run my Alt lonewolf so a squad would probably help.

But the best solution is to fix the matchmaking system.

You cannot simply come to a conclusion on this topic based on your own skill level and success, not everybody is as good as you nor do people play the game as often. Fact is, no NEW casual player can pick up this game and have even a small remote sense of fun because of the matchmaking.

In every game ever made new players have a disadvantage.

Once you hit a few million, the differences are negligible. I've not even hit 5 million SP total yet and it's rare for me to not be top 5 on the scoreboards.

I'm on 1.2 and it's rare that I'm not in the top 5, and I lone wolf it most of the time...

The problem with that is that every other shooter has a skill level cap to where eventually,everyone will hit it,no matter how much or little you play.Since there's no level cap,there are some players that don't play enough to keep up with the pack.The thing is though,that's totally on them,but it's still a double edged sword that can end up hurting the game.

This is a valid point. Unfortunately, the only solution for this is for newberries to get good. We can't give them a mechanic for improved SP so they can catch up to the vets - chances are they'll just waste it, thinking they'll keep getting it at an advanced rate, and spend it in any skills they fancy at that time. We have to give them a chance to learn the game mechanics, and they can also be given a learning course (DUST University's a great idea - maybe have a pop-up when you first create a character, informing you about it?) . Militia fits are able to hold their own, anything above just confers an increasing advantage. For example, a complex shield extender only gives you an extra two shots worth of damage from a militia AR.

so the general gist of this thread is the new player experience sucks and if your new your going to get panned regardless of gear. or SP so we have the other harder to fix problem is that vets are just running around stomping newbs who would not have had to the time to learn the game or find good teams to group with.

i would also remind players here that when you make a new alt your not a new player you have all that basic info to help inform you. for example you see a black suit you know to run away because you cant kill it or to engage it differently. a new player will simple not have that information in his head and thus will try and fail to kill it in a straight up one on one.

i feel the frustration coming out is not knowing what the hell is going on. i think maybe a better threat indicator while highlighting a suit would help the newbs (maybe as a peace of gear) so if player looks at a Vet the screen flashes a danger sign or something, that way if they get spanked they were at least warned it was coming.

I agree its the perception thats causing the problem which needs to be fixed rather than anything else.
(also being blindingly drunk does not help either in my case :P)

hovering your cross-hairs over a target will show the effectiveness of your weapon against said target.

Surt, I got your point, but the point is being made that newberries, or people with low SP, are struggling to do well against those with high SP. As contrary examples, a few of us have pointed out that we have under 1mil SP (or around 1mil SP) and do well against those with higher SP. Nowhere have we said that we consider ourselves "skilled" players. I, for one, know that I have a lot of room for improvement. The point is that if a player is bad at an FPS, they'll do badly, regardless of their SP. If they can point and shoot, or support, or whatever, they'll do well.

The point is that SP doesn't make a bad player good. A bad player is bad no matter what equipment he uses. A lot of people simply don't *think* when they play the game, so lose time and time again. A good player does otherwise.

matchmaking? lol, biggest joke in dust right now

bacon isn't a joke

Yeah whoever thought up the soft cap wasn't thinking about this. There is no way to get caught up, unless there is a hard SP reset. It should have been done when the soft cap was introduced, now any new players will forever be behind.

I've been saying this since day 1. Proto suits are absolutely not an iWin button. The advantages the suits themselves confer is more fitting slots. Your skills are infinitely more important in determining if you have enough HP buffer, dmg, etc to fight against other players.

I'm so tired of people not sitting down and doing the math. Your gear is worthless without skill. If you get stomped in a match, it's because you got outplayed. This isn't a matter of HTFU. This is a matter of take a step back, a deep breath, and understand why these other people are stomping you. This is EVE at it's core. This is why I play in the New Eden universe. I like challenge.

Let me add my name to the list of people with < 1 mil SP alts that regularly do well. Blaming your failures on gear masks the problem and prevents you from seeing the solution. Play smart - win. Play like a ****** - get your ass beat. It's quite literally as simple as that.