Some people are arguing that player skill is vastly more important than SP/equipment. The "I can take out proto reds with militia gear so everything is cool" argument.

This is interesting. We currently don't know how widespread (or accurate) this level of skill is. I would assume there is a sort of bell curve of player skill and maybe only the top 5% of players are this skilled. This seems reasonable to believe, but it also invalidates the argument if only 5% of players can do well with a fresh character against SP advantaged players.

Looking at average players with similar player skills you might notice a significant difference in performance depending how much of an SP/equipment advantage they hold. And this would matter more because it would affect a larger percentage of the player base. But we don't have an easy way to judge player skill without mixing in SP/equipment into the equation.

Regardless of if it is true or just a scapegoat, it is a perceived imbalance in the game. If players feel like they can't compete primarily because they haven't hit cap every week since open beta started, they may give up on the game and leave. That is not a good thing.

It's not really the skill points of individual players...but the teams that you are on. Within the first week, you can create a formidable fit that will give you a chance in matches if you have skill. Type II dropsuit and a couple of shield extenders and you should be fine.

What happens is that you're running solo and placed across full squads of higher geared and teamwork-oriented players and that's why you have trouble. And it appears as if it's just only about gear when it is really about the teams. If you were placed in a match where everyone is solo and maybe one proto player on the other side......your experience will be different. Because tbh, many players are not using higher than STD gear in pub matches.

I already know that many of you will rage on me, but a general (basic shield/armor and modules) HP nerf would probably be the solution. Smart/reactive players would win a 1vs1 against a proto. This would encourage new people to play dust, and would give veterans a new incentive... just my 0.02 isk

Funny thing is - I see lots of corpless guys running around in ADV and PRO gear. It means absolutely nothing compared to him just being in MLT. No matter how much SP these guys accumulate they're bottom feeders for life until they learn how community based this game really is. A corp - or more important your squad - make or break your gameplay here.

But the bottom line of this conversation is hard to discuss. All the new players didn't have half a year to a year to decide what's a bad SP investment, so there actual SP totals don't reflect there ability to preform.

Regardless of if it is true or just a scapegoat, it is a perceived imbalance in the game. If players feel like they can't compete primarily because they haven't hit cap every week since open beta started, they may give up on the game and leave. That is not a good thing.

I have to disagree with the OP I do just fine on my alts that are all hovering around 1 mil SP.

Its hard but the main problem is the perception of inequality, think back to the first FPS you played MP, I know I got my ass handed to me for 10s of matches in a row before I figured things out, now add to that the knowledge that some of the gear is better then what you have, and it becomes easy to blame gear and skills for your own short coming and give up on the game.

Nubs need a .....relatively....... safe place to learn, and pros need consistent fights to improve, once again, we need segregation, not forced but there none the less.


TLDR
one of the more significant demonstration of the effect of mixing new players and skilled players was playing soul caliber 2, I challenged a friend who didn't play much having played religiously for a couple of years. he button mashed and I play in a cool planed manner...... I didn't do very well the first round but adapted by regressing my level of play to a controlled spamming of attacks to head off the continuous onslaught of my button mashing opponent, instead of the neat attack counter attack etc I had learned to use fighting good players. I didn't lose another round but my game was not improved either. Tho I did come to a understanding that when faced with brute force the better option is to respond with better organized brute force.

You see this all the time in matches in dust the better team wins by being better at out rushing and not by tactics, because both teams have too many new and unskilled players to do anything else, and yes this is what corp matches are for, but organized preplanned matches where bragging right are on the line are not the best place for emergent game play and should not be the only place that it can happen. This is where FW matches can fill the gap if they are tiered.

Although for every level increase the payouts for time in match should be reduced significantly and only participation(read WP(read DS need to be fixed)) should be rewarded.

out of experiment today i rolled a new alt and after 4-5 rounds of blind frustration that no matter what i did i was not going to kill anything above a basic player, i want back to old character and notice that because i dont play nearly as much as a i used too. im now getting face panned because i don't have the leet gear required to compete. My skill no longer matters at all.

and im starting to worry that the reason i dont see many newb corps in the scoreboards anymore is that anyone new gets facerolled in minutes, and just goes to pick something else up. their are three heavy hitters coming out in the next few months and I know one has already taken a large hit on the vet playerbase because i saw them all running around in it. Put simply unlike in EvE if your a new guy in dust or player who simply does not have the time to keep up. You will lose end off no question.

and before the trolls common here going HTFU. In EvE you have other things to do if your on a bad roll. in Dust thier is no other option than lose, and that will bleep players like no tomorrow, Every other shooter out their has things in place if you cant compleat in dust the vets and newbs are throw together and surprise surprise.

i dont really know how to make my point other than Dust is building it self up for a legacy issue that has plaged EvE. Vets will remain godlike and newbs will never ever be able to catch up, this gap is becoming wider and wider every month and simply don't see how in the current gameplay this can be fixed, my key worry is that 5 month in, myself someone who is been hear from the start can no longer gain any enjoyment due to constant frustrating not enjoyable fights match after match to point i just quit beucase i can tell after 3 minutes if im going to win or lose.

fix the game progression before you kill off your own game.

put another way, on other beta forums i see nothing but people looking forward to its release, on here i still see nothing but problems and new patch is completely untested and already had has holes poked in it. In my honest view this game needs to go back to drawing board and work out what type of game it wants to be because right now its failing to even do the basics right

Its hard but the main problem is the perception of inequality, think back to the first FPS you played MP, I know I got my ass handed to me for 10s of matches in a row before I figured things out, now add to that the knowledge that some of the gear is better then what you have, and it becomes easy to blame gear and skills for your own short coming and give up on the game.

Nubs need a .....relatively....... safe place to learn, and pros need consistent fights to improve, once again, we need segregation, not forced but there none the less.


TLDR
one of the more significant demonstration of the effect of mixing new players and skilled players was playing soul caliber 2, I challenged a friend who didn't play much having played religiously for a couple of years. he button mashed and I play in a cool planed manner...... I didn't do very well the first round but adapted by regressing my level of play to a controlled spamming of attacks to head off the continuous onslaught of my button mashing opponent, instead of the neat attack counter attack etc I had learned to use fighting good players. I didn't lose another round but my game was not improved either. Tho I did come to a understanding that when faced with brute force the better option is to respond with better organized brute force.

You see this all the time in matches in dust the better team wins by being better at out rushing and not by tactics, because both teams have too many new and unskilled players to do anything else, and yes this is what corp matches are for, but organized preplanned matches where bragging right are on the line are not the best place for emergent game play and should not be the only place that it can happen. This is where FW matches can fill the gap if they are tiered.

Although for every level increase the payouts for time in match should be reduced significantly and only participation(read WP(read DS need to be fixed)) should be rewarded.

More than anything, I think the worst part is many vets like to act like they're really good, when in reality, they rely heavily on SP and bad players to carry them high up into the leaderboards

Here's hoping the next build splits us up a little bit better, so new players can actually ::gasp:: enjoy matchmaking.

I will say there should be Match making in pug based on KDR and SP combination. but it should be a voluntary pre-enabled option so if people want play with better or worse people they can.

I can do pretty well with my ALTS. So I respectfully disagree with you.

Not only that, but the majority of people rely solely on their K/D ratios.

I encourage some folks, if time is available, to head to the ign community to help the Dust 514 thread.