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Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
328
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 00:35:00 -
[31] - Quote
Rifter7 wrote:i'm not stating that it should be removed. i'm saying it's something that should be thought about... mostly for the players that don't play as much.
please don't decide my stance on something by selectively quoting what i said haha.
There should be no thoughts about removal of active SP. Why? It discourages people from playing the game. "Why should I play now when I can come back in a year with 6m more SP and be able to jump into much better gear than I can now?"
There is already a soft cap on SP per week, in order to make sure those who aren't as active don't fall too far behind. Don't punish those players who do play a lot, versus those who don't, simply because they're more dedicated (or have more free time) than those who aren't as active. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
128
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 00:37:00 -
[32] - Quote
No, you just got used to easymode kills with proto gear while tanking 50 bullets from militia blueberries. |
steadyhand amarr
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
381
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 00:50:00 -
[33] - Quote
you guys where meant to ignore my rant and bury it :P.
further to point i think my biggest problem is at the moment their is no PvE i love dust but sometimes i want to chill and play which you cant do in dust is either all out or nothing at all so if not having a good day your choice is die in ambush or die in skirmish, their is no gather you strength mode (like in EvE where you could missions or trade or something)
secondly people must remember that the forum communty (just like EvE) does not reflect the player-base only those hardcore enough that want to post as such people here can guide their friends down the right path or know how to do it themselves. The same cannot be said for someone who has just come from BF3 or COD/halo if they go toe-toe in a gunfight a lose due to gear consistently without a clear indicator that the gear is causing the loss, this is what is causing the frustration, if i joined a match going in knowing i could be facing proto gear thats fine. what i would like is the option to join a match where its not a worry. The shear pot luck at the moment makes the game at times very very unfriendly if your at the wrong end of it all the time.
one thing they could do is show the fitting of the top player for that match (horror to some EvE players im sure) or just somthing to show what director a player could head in so even a match that is lost feels constructive they just wasted isk |
steadyhand amarr
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
381
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 00:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
Laheon wrote:Rifter7 wrote:i'm not stating that it should be removed. i'm saying it's something that should be thought about... mostly for the players that don't play as much.
please don't decide my stance on something by selectively quoting what i said haha.
There should be no thoughts about removal of active SP. Why? It discourages people from playing the game. "Why should I play now when I can come back in a year with 6m more SP and be able to jump into much better gear than I can now?" There is already a soft cap on SP per week, in order to make sure those who aren't as active don't fall too far behind. Don't punish those players who do play a lot, versus those who don't, simply because they're more dedicated (or have more free time) than those who aren't as active.
that soft caps ensures the vets will always stay ahead as if i miss a week gaming or a few days beucase of the Cap i know no matter what i do i will never catch up, thus once your ahead you stay ahead this is why you see AFK farming so much. the skill system needs be done on EvE time system. the current method does not work in shooter |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
1032
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 00:58:00 -
[35] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Laheon wrote:Rifter7 wrote:i'm not stating that it should be removed. i'm saying it's something that should be thought about... mostly for the players that don't play as much.
please don't decide my stance on something by selectively quoting what i said haha.
There should be no thoughts about removal of active SP. Why? It discourages people from playing the game. "Why should I play now when I can come back in a year with 6m more SP and be able to jump into much better gear than I can now?" There is already a soft cap on SP per week, in order to make sure those who aren't as active don't fall too far behind. Don't punish those players who do play a lot, versus those who don't, simply because they're more dedicated (or have more free time) than those who aren't as active. that soft caps ensures the vets will always stay ahead as if i miss a week gaming or a few days beucase of the Cap i know no matter what i do i will never catch up, thus once your ahead you stay ahead this is why you see AFK farming so much. the skill system needs be done on EvE time system. the current method does not work in shooter
The only way to fix that is to remove the skill cap in its entirety.
But then you'll be facing the argument of players having the highest gear and skill points and not being able to compete...which is what your problem is in the first place. But then, on the other hand, at least new players can grind and earn enough to compete faster than they would with the current system (which, by the way, is the best system to date that includes a cap at all) |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
330
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 01:00:00 -
[36] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:that soft caps ensures the vets will always stay ahead as if i miss a week gaming or a few days beucase of the Cap i know no matter what i do i will never catch up, thus once your ahead you stay ahead this is why you see AFK farming so much. the skill system needs be done on EvE time system. the current method does not work in shooter
Stay ahead in SP, yes. As stated before, SP does not matter as much as skill level, situational awareness and teamwork do. As stated before, newberries in protosuits will lose to vets in militia suits (well, they lost when the vets were in adv gear). Knowing when to jump out of cover, when to charge the enemy, when to move position, is vital in this game. If you move out of position with a tank aiming at you, then you're dead. If you charge the enemy when they have a heavy/logi combo, or a logi with an MD, then you're dead. If you run up against five guys and you're on your own, chances are you're dead.
If you can get to a high elevation with a militia AR and shoot at someone from above, there'll be a very high probability that that person will die, even if they're in a proto suit. If you run away from a scout using a shotgun, then chances are you'll survive, instead of going hunting for it. Likewise, don't run towards someone with nova knives.
Knowing when to engage and when not to is essential in this game. SP only confers advantages to those with higher (or better invested) SP. It doesn't grant an "I win" button. As I've said before. |
Captain-Awesome
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
384
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 01:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
I have to lol and agree with my English scum corp mate here.
This weekend I travelled back to gods country (ng thWales) and today I thought I would show my 12 year old sister Dust 514. After going through 30 minutes explaining the menu systems etc, it was time for my 12 year old sister, who has never picked up a FPS in her life Dust 514................... and who do we bump into? Deadpool, Gunner nightingale and I3ear and 2 other squads of imperfects in seperate matches lol needless to say, she got 1 kill and 1 death (the kill was a fluke but I won't tell her that)
needless to say, it was carnage. |
JETSTORM1090
Against All Oddz
22
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 01:25:00 -
[38] - Quote
Yup I would have to disagree to some extent, I started a new alt to test a few things out and did just fine, sure you have worse gear but the skill truly is what matters in my opinion. |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die
151
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 01:29:00 -
[39] - Quote
Laheon wrote:There should be no thoughts about removal of active SP. Why? It discourages people from playing the game. Oddly enough, there are a bunch of people who play EVE everyday, despite the passive-only SP...and what about games without any leveling at all? Why do people play them? |
Creedair Talor
The Phoenix Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 01:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:I dont even know what HTFU means, or where it came from.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q There you go |
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SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1841
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 01:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
Captain-Awesome wrote:I have to lol and agree with my English scum corp mate here.
This weekend I travelled back to gods country (ng thWales) and today I thought I would show my 12 year old sister Dust 514. After going through 30 minutes explaining the menu systems etc, it was time for my 12 year old sister, who has never picked up a FPS in her life Dust 514................... and who do we bump into? Deadpool, Gunner nightingale and I3ear and 2 other squads of imperfects in seperate matches lol needless to say, she got 1 kill and 1 death (the kill was a fluke but I won't tell her that)
needless to say, it was carnage. My favorite hate mail of all time has to be when an enraged father thought I was picking on his son since he was unlucky enough to get me on the other side 3 times in a row while I was soloing. I spawn camped him twice apparently then stalked him in the third map till he lost all love for dust514 as all of us are pricks who care about nothing but... shooting our guns.
Oh, also the HMG is bugged and does double damage to new berries. I really liked the explanation of why I suck so much.
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JL3Eleven
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
250
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 01:33:00 -
[42] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Laheon wrote:There should be no thoughts about removal of active SP. Why? It discourages people from playing the game. Oddly enough, there are a bunch of people who play EVE everyday, despite the passive-only SP...and what about games without any leveling at all? Why do people play them?
Because they cannot afford better games?
|
SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1841
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 01:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
JL3Eleven wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Laheon wrote:There should be no thoughts about removal of active SP. Why? It discourages people from playing the game. Oddly enough, there are a bunch of people who play EVE everyday, despite the passive-only SP...and what about games without any leveling at all? Why do people play them? Because they cannot afford better games? PS1 games on PSN go for 10 bucks each and are way better then modern RPG's. Just sayin' ^_^ |
Winscar Shinobi
Better Hide R Die
122
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 01:38:00 -
[44] - Quote
Protoman Is God wrote:CCP took AR sights off the AR's to make things more even between new players and vets.
Ccp took of ar sights because players complained that they sucked. Ccp then replaced them with equally worse iron sights |
Jotun Hiem
The Tritan Industries
510
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 01:40:00 -
[45] - Quote
I've started new characters twice before during the open beta and have always remained potent enough with my type-II fits to consistently score in the top four in pub matches.
The only advice I can offer you is to get better. |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
566
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 01:47:00 -
[46] - Quote
Jotun Hiem wrote:I've started new characters twice before during the open beta and have always remained potent enough with my type-II fits to consistently score in the top four in pub matches. The only advice I can offer you is to get better.
Type-2 GEK fits are easy mode. My alt can attest to that. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
958
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 01:50:00 -
[47] - Quote
I run a sever bpo with militia mods all the time(yes I'm poor) and I still top the boards occasionally, I also tend to place in the top 5 with the same fit, and that's against people running adv suits with the odd proto |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1841
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 01:51:00 -
[48] - Quote
gbghg wrote:I run a sever bpo with militia mods all the time(yes I'm poor) and I still top the boards occasionally, I also tend to place in the top 5 with the same fit, and that's against people running adv suits with the odd proto Reading the forums make me feel like a proto bear lol. Though my suit is Type-B, everything else is proto xD
|
Jotun Hiem
The Tritan Industries
510
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 01:53:00 -
[49] - Quote
Talos Alomar wrote:Jotun Hiem wrote:I've started new characters twice before during the open beta and have always remained potent enough with my type-II fits to consistently score in the top four in pub matches. The only advice I can offer you is to get better. Type-2 GEK fits are easy mode. My alt can attest to that. I don't play assault. All character have been Logibro or Heavy. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
389
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 01:59:00 -
[50] - Quote
I made a new char and tested this theory, I went 16/4 and similar scores using a starter assault fitting. Problem? I also tested using a sniper and a SMG scout. same deal went 2.0 kdr or better. |
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howard sanchez
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
467
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 02:01:00 -
[51] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:you guys where meant to ignore my rant and bury it :P.
further to point i think my biggest problem is at the moment their is no PvE i love dust but sometimes i want to chill and play which you cant do in dust is either all out or nothing at all so if not having a good day your choice is die in ambush or die in skirmish, their is no gather you strength mode (like in EvE where you could missions or trade or something)
secondly people must remember that the forum communty (just like EvE) does not reflect the player-base only those hardcore enough that want to post as such people here can guide their friends down the right path or know how to do it themselves. The same cannot be said for someone who has just come from BF3 or COD/halo if they go toe-toe in a gunfight a lose due to gear consistently without a clear indicator that the gear is causing the loss, this is what is causing the frustration, if i joined a match going in knowing i could be facing proto gear thats fine. what i would like is the option to join a match where its not a worry. The shear pot luck at the moment makes the game at times very very unfriendly if your at the wrong end of it all the time.
one thing they could do is show the fitting of the top player for that match (horror to some EvE players im sure) or just somthing to show what director a player could head in so even a match that is lost feels constructive they just wasted isk Good feedback here. Regardless of what particular details CCP uses to address the issue (& these are good details that should be discussed) they had better make serious, well informed, not delayed changes to address the risks herein described. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
389
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 02:03:00 -
[52] - Quote
I will say there should be Match making in pug based on KDR and SP combination. but it should be a voluntary pre-enabled option so if people want play with better or worse people they can. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
389
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 02:05:00 -
[53] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: There's going to be plenty of "non-consensual" fighting, no doubt. The only thing is, you still have to set the battle up in advanced, so in reality you are getting those who want to fight ready to defend (or, you can just give it up; that's always an option)
Or pay me to help them :D |
howard sanchez
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
467
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 02:40:00 -
[54] - Quote
Laheon wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:that soft caps ensures the vets will always stay ahead as if i miss a week gaming or a few days beucase of the Cap i know no matter what i do i will never catch up, thus once your ahead you stay ahead this is why you see AFK farming so much. the skill system needs be done on EvE time system. the current method does not work in shooter Stay ahead in SP, yes. As stated before, SP does not matter as much as skill level, situational awareness and teamwork do. As stated before, newberries in protosuits will lose to vets in militia suits (well, they lost when the vets were in adv gear). Knowing when to jump out of cover, when to charge the enemy, when to move position, is vital in this game. If you move out of position with a tank aiming at you, then you're dead. If you charge the enemy when they have a heavy/logi combo, or a logi with an MD, then you're dead. If you run up against five guys and you're on your own, chances are you're dead. If you can get to a high elevation with a militia AR and shoot at someone from above, there'll be a very high probability that that person will die, even if they're in a proto suit. If you run away from a scout using a shotgun, then chances are you'll survive, instead of going hunting for it. Likewise, don't run towards someone with nova knives. Knowing when to engage and when not to is essential in this game. SP only confers advantages to those with higher (or better invested) SP. It doesn't grant an "I win" button. As I've said before. This right here's a great post. It makes me think, what if the current system isn't so broken as we first assume? What if the current system truly rewards creative, emergent interactive player behavior at least as well, if not better than EVE?
Maybe player created organization like DustUni and opportunities for player driven interest, like Arena competition and player driven multimedia will keep driving the player base to improve (& enjoy the game more) based on the base's Darwinian characteristics
Tldr: learning cliffs drive the evolution of gamer skill |
XxWarlordxX97
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1171
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 02:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:I will say there should be Match making in pug based on KDR and SP combination. but it should be a voluntary pre-enabled option so if people want play with better or worse people they can. that would be awsome |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
390
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 02:43:00 -
[56] - Quote
XxWarlordxX97 wrote:2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:I will say there should be Match making in pug based on KDR and SP combination. but it should be a voluntary pre-enabled option so if people want play with better or worse people they can. that would be awsome
Will make a FB thread i guess :P |
JoshuaEvil666
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
34
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 02:45:00 -
[57] - Quote
I have done testing with this myself, put yur startup sp into weaponry 5 , don't go rushing in front during combat and you wont get instapoped you CAN compete with a fresh char if you are any sort of decent at this game |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 02:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
can i get a QQ?
i started eve online 8 years late... and you're QQing about a couple of weeks? gtfoutta here lol |
Moonracer2000
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
382
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 02:55:00 -
[59] - Quote
Some people are arguing that player skill is vastly more important than SP/equipment. The "I can take out proto reds with militia gear so everything is cool" argument.
This is interesting. We currently don't know how widespread (or accurate) this level of skill is. I would assume there is a sort of bell curve of player skill and maybe only the top 5% of players are this skilled. This seems reasonable to believe, but it also invalidates the argument if only 5% of players can do well with a fresh character against SP advantaged players.
Looking at average players with similar player skills you might notice a significant difference in performance depending how much of an SP/equipment advantage they hold. And this would matter more because it would affect a larger percentage of the player base. But we don't have an easy way to judge player skill without mixing in SP/equipment into the equation.
Regardless of if it is true or just a scapegoat, it is a perceived imbalance in the game. If players feel like they can't compete primarily because they haven't hit cap every week since open beta started, they may give up on the game and leave. That is not a good thing. |
Logi Bro
Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic
1016
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 03:12:00 -
[60] - Quote
I have two alts, and neither of them have reached 1mil SP yet.
They do just fine, I think perhaps you are being a tad too much doom and gloom. |
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