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The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
44
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Posted - 2013.04.01 08:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:I can do pretty well with my ALTS. So I respectfully disagree with you.
It is all about teamwork and fps skill. Kade is correct. No amount of SP or gear makes me a better merc. The quality of my team, ability of my squad and skill at fps as an individual is the only thing that determines the out come. I am terrible at shooters and if I lone wolf I usually rank at the bottom in WP and kills. If I join a squad and we play as a group and communicate with each other I am in the to 5 from both teams. My skill didn't increase and I have the same gear. Tactics and team work - as with all things military - win in the end.
"If we hit that bulls eye the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...checkmate." |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
44
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Posted - 2013.04.01 09:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
The problem is people come into the game thinking they are king of cod and get knocked down a notch. New players should be forced to watch the "training" movie about 10 times. 99% of the information needed to play, upgrade and specialize is in that movie. New players and old players alike make bad SP choices, so what. My 13 year old son had no problems at all starting and learning to skill. Matter of fact his first character - the one he plays all the time - had the passive SP turned off and was only collecting active SP. He has been playing for two months with no active. He does well with 600k SP and loves the game. The person who is do the crying fault that the game is too complicated and they can't understand it. It is math, learn it. Read. It is amazing what you can learn by reading and then stopping to think. I have not helped my son (with the exception of turning on passive SP after seeing his earned SP was so low) at all, I did not explain anything, tell him how to specialize or recommend a corp. He is not a super genius and knew nothing of EVE or DUST before Jan 21 of this year. The argument that the new players are behind and cannot compete with vets is invalid and to be honest is silly. All games that have a multiplayer part have a learning curve for new players to over come. People who rage quit are the same people who don't read, do math or try. Suck it up and stop crying. I have brought at least 6 new players to the game. They all have said that it is complicated but none have quit because they can read, do math and have some social skills that allow them to become better and join squads and corporations. The people who are crying for new player bonuses, respecs and whatever else are mad because they suck at the game or just like crying about people better than themselves. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
46
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Posted - 2013.04.01 10:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
I am not being a smartass. It is our job as a community and as people who want to see DUST succeed. We should all be mentoring new players. Is there a HELP chat room? If not we need to make one. If some vets want to help me make a corp who's sole purpose is to train noobs then let's do it. I do not see the need for one. The problems rise from lazyness and the incorrect notion that SP is the great equalizer. New players need only ask for help and all the mercs I know would help with anything. M.O.M.S. Corp. is ready and willing to lead noobs into battle and all I need is skilled players who are willing to work hard at training. We could run the corp like sports drafting. We train the new berries to follow orders, how to skill and use teamwork and when the merc is ready we could provide them with a letter of recommendation to the corp they want to join and charge a fee for the top players we are "trading". This might help because I know some corps are concerned with the new players that join. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
46
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Posted - 2013.04.01 10:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
I do not think you were insulting to my son. It is HIS fault.
Yes HE did miss one big important thing. It is because HE did not pay attention to what HE was doing. HE did not pay attention to the intro movies. HE did not did look at and read the information given to him. HE did not ask for help. I blame him for his problem not CCP, not the SP gap, not other players or some other esoteric detail. I teach and preach personal responsibility in everything I do. Yes I used crying twice in one sentence, sorry for the faux pas. My argument still stands. The problem is with the players not the game. Yes, there are problems that is the games fault that will be worked out in time but I am saying place the blame where it goes. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
46
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Posted - 2013.04.01 10:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Soozu wrote:or at the very least have peoples mics starting in the on position. I lost count a LONG time ago of how many times I've said this. Voice NEEDS to default to "on" - and with the PTT button in a less-than-intuitive position on the d-pad, it would be nice to see that default to "off" as well. Been calling for both of those things since they added PTT, and before PTT I was asking for voice to default to on. Still hasn't happened.
In my experience with mics I have found that if there is no mic connected then the open mics get garbage. I like the mics off. If you have a mic then you should be aware of the settings. However, I would like a setting that turned the push to talk into a toggle on /off. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
46
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Posted - 2013.04.01 10:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Soozu wrote:[You used crying twice in a sentence. Luckily it was the final sentence in your paragraph so i actually did read the whole thing. Some things about what you said really strike me as odd though. Your son is 13? Prime video gamer age and he needs help from his father to play a video game? You said he didn't, but he did, he missed his passive booster gains for 2 months ... two months, that's pretty big. It's understandable though, after all he's not a super genius or anything. Maybe you should have sat him down and forced him to watch the same video TEN TIMES... to bad there's no proper training system.
Anyway, not to burst your big bubble of super non genius family and friends, but the people in this thread are not newbs. They are trying to help newbs and DUST's player retention. OK I lied. I'm trying to burst your bubble. Maybe you should read this thread again. Silly and invalid.... indeed. There's certainly no possibility his son was using passive SP to train up an alt while using his main, right? There's certainly no possibility his son's main was created on the father's account and he kept the passive SP on his own character, right? I've seen a 17 year old with multiple learning disabilities pick the game up and come out with a 4:1 KDR at the end of his first day. He has severe enough dyslexia that he was put into remedial classes for almost everything in High School, and not only was he good at the FPS gameplay, but he managed to figure out the skill system and the basics of the marketplace just fine by watching the tutorials and being patient with all the on-screen text.
He only has made one character and our PlayStations are totally separate. I have my own personal account and he has his |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
47
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Posted - 2013.04.01 11:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Soozu wrote:Laheon wrote:Soozu wrote:Ok ok, some people can figure it out, we all know that, all of us did right? I have only been arguing the point that this game is missing the real tutorials that all games have now. Not the reading kind, the hands on move your guy shoot at things this is how this works walkthrough that everybody has become accustomed to. Without it, we're losing people as the SP gap grows and the problem compounds. Again, for the last kittening time, the SP gap is not a problem. The problem is the skill levels of the players themselves. You can very well hold your own in a militia fit. A friend I introduced to the game a couple days ago went 3/4 in his first ambush, with 4 assists. And you really don't need a tutorial for "this is how to aim. This is how to move. This is how to shoot, this is how to ADS." Those are controls people will test out at their earliest convenience. Not to mention that the controls are shown in the loading screens anyway. A couple of games and you get used to it. Yeah, actually I agree to a point. The tutorial I was thinking about was a bit more hands on though. Maybe playing through several scenarios like,... cross the field and hack objective A,, then you cross the field and if you don't move from cover to cover you get pegged by a sniper. Or.... keep your heavy alive mission, where you're a logi and he's taking fire and you have to repair / revive him until he kills the attackers... or stick with your squad mission etc etc. I can think of a few games that have stuff like this and you simply can't start the game until it's clear that you get it and passed the tutorial. Something like this would really introduce new players into this FPS's gameplay and make them better newbs. But I digress, I think this game will succeed regardless.... it would just be a WONDERFUL addition. Edit: Oh come on Garret, haha,,,, I wasn't insulting his son. He said his son didn't turn on his passive. It's safe to move on.
Yeah let's keep moving. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
47
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Posted - 2013.04.01 12:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
The lesson is pay attention, read, do math, ask questions and find a group. You know, real life skills. This game is no harder than the first day of anything. People feel that they should be equal to everyone and that isn't true in any situation, including this game. CCP should not have to hold people's hands and explain everything in detail. If a merc doesn't have the time, ability or intelligence to play a game then they have more problems than a crappy tutorial. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
48
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Posted - 2013.04.01 18:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:The lesson is pay attention, read, do math, ask questions and find a group. You know, real life skills. This game is no harder than the first day of anything. People feel that they should be equal to everyone and that isn't true in any situation, including this game. CCP should not have to hold people's hands and explain everything in detail. If a merc doesn't have the time, ability or intelligence to play a game then they have more problems than a crappy tutorial. I'm sorry but what? New players or players with no mentors/corp either don't know what they're doing or they need help. Pubstomps happen everyday with players getting 0 kills and quitting the game. If you're going to sit here and basically say HTFU then you MUST be one of those players who don't see the consequence of all of this in the long run. Once the flow of players become stale, and we're all facing the same people over and over and over again, the game will not be fun. No one has to be "equal" but we must take into account the major differences between newer players or and older players. If anything we need a match making system that's based on SP. Those in the 2 Mil or less get grouped together. Those in the 3-4 mil get grouped together. Those in the 5-6 mil get grouped together and 7-mil onward is fair game. And if players squad up together, the average of their SP count should be taken and used to placed them in a match. Something like that would be a way better system than just letting the newbies waste their ISK against us.
Then spend all your time helping new players if it is such a big deal.
How do you know they are quitting the game after going 0? I have went 0 kills lots of times but I am still here.
The flow of players is stale because there is nothing to do in game except match making battles and corp battles that are usually one sided.
The major differences in the players is largely in player skill. Good players do not cry, decent players do not cry only people who are not good at fps whine about the SP gap.
SP does not do anything but prove that you have been here for a while or you can play 7 days a week 5 hours a day. I have 4.7 M SP and my buddy has 8 M SP and two noob at 1 M each, we team up and join a match. Our squad's average is 3.7 M so we get put with 4 M SP players. My 8 M guy destroys every merc in sight and I help while the noobs just watch?
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The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
48
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Posted - 2013.04.01 18:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
McFurious wrote:I think a reset is pointless. Even if they did, after a month we'll be in the same situation. People who played since the reset will have their fancy gear and any new players will be getting slaughtered and bitching about it on the forums. Or they'll leave. Some might even call for another reset.
All they really need to do is have match making working properly. Newbs can play with newbs and all the ****-socking, no-lifers in protogear can play with eachother. Let's also not forget PVE should be working by then as well so the noobs will be able to farm their SP from rouge drones and whatnot.
I'm really not keen on grinding up my SP for a third time. I'd do it of course but fecking hell my patience is getting thin.
The matching making system will never be good. No matter what ever happens, how much tweaking is done or how many reset there are. This is not cod, we play together and take in new mercs. Unless we all start running with people who have the same gun game, SP and ISK then the match making will never work. This discussion is moot and should be forgotten.
This is not aimed at Furious. Also, he is correct, a SP reset would drive away more players than it brings in and in 2 months it will be the same people crying about the same things.
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The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
49
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Posted - 2013.04.01 20:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Again, almost every MMO ever made has the grind up to level cap. Dust 514 is no different. Once you grind up to proto gear you can't get any more powerful, and you basically start grinding what would be in other games, another class. In this particular game, your main just gets to switch classes at will.
Once you've levels your first set of full proto, you have effectively "caught up" to the people who have been playing longer than you.
Yes
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The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
49
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Posted - 2013.04.01 21:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:The more casual gamers will leave after getting 0 kills and their ass beat. I know because I have friends who QQ to me about how Dust "sucks" because they can't achieve much at the start.
Edit: Idec if they can't achieve crap but if they're going 0 all day, every day and barely making 1k SP a round while trying the best they can. Something's up.
Yes. Casual players do matter because Dust 514 is supposed to integrate casuals into some of it's gameplay. At least have it so that players who haven't officially gotten 2 mil must start off in an "Easier" battle.
You wouldn't put an athlete after days worth of training in a competition with someone who's been practicing for years, right? Of course this is a exaggeration in terms of scale but the issue holds true. Players who have 4 Mil SP know what they're doing. Any player you know that has about 4 Mil SP and doesn't know what they're doing is a part of a minority.
You know what I can do with 4 Mil SP focused on one thing compared to a merc with just 1 Mil SP? A whole lot. So much the player would think it's unfair and it is, in fact, not fair. I don't care how good of an aim you have, you penetrating a Proto-wearing Pub-Stomper in a militia suit is most likely not happening without your skills being really focused into it. You can't run as fast as them. You can't fire as fast as them. You can't reload as fast as them. But you do die a whole lot faster than anyone.
I'm all about HTFU but there are certain areas that this doesn't apply to.
I was more than sure my match-making idea wasn't perfect but it's at least a step in the right direction. Something needs to be done about this, and if not Dust will take a critical hit. It definitely won't fail but it won't be as successful as it should be.
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The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
49
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Posted - 2013.04.01 21:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:The more casual gamers will leave after getting 0 kills and their ass beat. I know because I have friends who QQ to me about how Dust "sucks" because they can't achieve much at the start.
Edit: Idec if they can't achieve crap but if they're going 0 all day, every day and barely making 1k SP a round while trying the best they can. Something's up.
Yes. Casual players do matter because Dust 514 is supposed to integrate casuals into some of it's gameplay. At least have it so that players who haven't officially gotten 2 mil must start off in an "Easier" battle.
You wouldn't put an athlete after days worth of training in a competition with someone who's been practicing for years, right? Of course this is a exaggeration in terms of scale but the issue holds true. Players who have 4 Mil SP know what they're doing. Any player you know that has about 4 Mil SP and doesn't know what they're doing is a part of a minority.
You know what I can do with 4 Mil SP focused on one thing compared to a merc with just 1 Mil SP? A whole lot. So much the player would think it's unfair and it is, in fact, not fair. I don't care how good of an aim you have, you penetrating a Proto-wearing Pub-Stomper in a militia suit is most likely not happening without your skills being really focused into it. You can't run as fast as them. You can't fire as fast as them. You can't reload as fast as them. But you do die a whole lot faster than anyone.
I'm all about HTFU but there are certain areas that this doesn't apply to.
I was more than sure my match-making idea wasn't perfect but it's at least a step in the right direction. Something needs to be done about this, and if not Dust will take a critical hit. It definitely won't fail but it won't be as successful as it should be.
You are correct that gained SP does matter. I suck at this game;I run a decent suit with my core skills trained to usually 4 and I get my ass handed to me regularly. Yes, I have max armor and shields, level 4 armor and shield rep and a proto LR. One on one my chance of winning is very low and my chance of dying is really high. At that moment in time my 100 k suit and all my SP mean nothing. Might as well be a noob. In a squad my chance of dying falls to close to zero and the survival rate of my target drops to almost zero. I make more on assits each match than in kills. The point is I play to my skill set and in a group and it works. Give me any amout of SP and any suit you want and it will not change.
Match making cannot work in a game like this. The only way to lesson the problem is to only allow lower gear in higher security systems. Equalize the gear based on sec stat and only SP and player skill remain. That is the only way I see it working. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
49
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Posted - 2013.04.02 05:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
blue gt wrote:the lesson is tiered contracts some place that will draw the pros to play somewhere other newbear central with better rewards.
Higher rewards in more dangerous places would help some. There will always be griefers that enjoy stomping noobs, it happens. CCP has to supply more diverse content so we are all not at the same place at the same time. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
57
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Posted - 2013.04.03 06:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Idye Lotz wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:Laheon wrote:Rifter7 wrote:i'm not stating that it should be removed. i'm saying it's something that should be thought about... mostly for the players that don't play as much.
please don't decide my stance on something by selectively quoting what i said haha.
There should be no thoughts about removal of active SP. Why? It discourages people from playing the game. "Why should I play now when I can come back in a year with 6m more SP and be able to jump into much better gear than I can now?" There is already a soft cap on SP per week, in order to make sure those who aren't as active don't fall too far behind. Don't punish those players who do play a lot, versus those who don't, simply because they're more dedicated (or have more free time) than those who aren't as active. that soft caps ensures the vets will always stay ahead as if i miss a week gaming or a few days beucase of the Cap i know no matter what i do i will never catch up, thus once your ahead you stay ahead this is why you see AFK farming so much. the skill system needs be done on EvE time system. the current method does not work in shooter Yeah whoever thought up the soft cap wasn't thinking about this. There is no way to get caught up, unless there is a hard SP reset. It should have been done when the soft cap was introduced, now any new players will forever be behind.
I have been playing this game for a year and I only get to play about two or three days a week for a couple of hours. Lots of people have more than me and I can never catch up. Should we reset for me? How about we take the top 10% of players and just take enough SP from them to make noobs better. It is super fun when everyone has the same everything. This subject is stupid. I'm done with it. All of you who are so concerned with noobs should make a corp for noobs and bring in tanks so they can farm points that way. They can make more than sitting in the MCC and because they are at such a disadvantage you can just play for them.
I know how to fix this! Let us transfer our SP noobs and they can just transfer it back when they are caught up. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
57
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Posted - 2013.04.03 06:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Fenix Alexarr wrote:Laheon wrote:Moonracer2000 wrote:Regardless of if it is true or just a scapegoat, it is a perceived imbalance in the game. If players feel like they can't compete primarily because they haven't hit cap every week since open beta started, they may give up on the game and leave. That is not a good thing. This is a valid point. Unfortunately, the only solution for this is for newberries to get good. We can't give them a mechanic for improved SP so they can catch up to the vets - chances are they'll just waste it, thinking they'll keep getting it at an advanced rate, and spend it in any skills they fancy at that time. We have to give them a chance to learn the game mechanics, and they can also be given a learning course (DUST University's a great idea - maybe have a pop-up when you first create a character, informing you about it?) . Militia fits are able to hold their own, anything above just confers an increasing advantage. For example, a complex shield extender only gives you an extra two shots worth of damage from a militia AR. I've been saying this since day 1. Proto suits are absolutely not an iWin button. The advantages the suits themselves confer is more fitting slots. Your skills are infinitely more important in determining if you have enough HP buffer, dmg, etc to fight against other players. I'm so tired of people not sitting down and doing the math. Your gear is worthless without skill. If you get stomped in a match, it's because you got outplayed. This isn't a matter of HTFU. This is a matter of take a step back, a deep breath, and understand why these other people are stomping you. This is EVE at it's core. This is why I play in the New Eden universe. I like challenge. Let me add my name to the list of people with < 1 mil SP alts that regularly do well. Blaming your failures on gear masks the problem and prevents you from seeing the solution. Play smart - win. Play like a ****** - get your ass beat. It's quite literally as simple as that.
This x 10 |
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