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Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 00:58:00 -
[61] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:Lurchasaurus wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:Head glitching behind cover is still very much a tactic in strafe and shoot fps. I see people doing it all the time. Not always effectively but they sure do try it a lot. Regardless of how futuristic the game is or how chaotic the battlefield will be, running in open territory on a whim should be discouraged and mercs should have to actually think. Raising the skill cap here. In any post i make here i will be coming from the opinion that complexity is better. basically, "think before you act" I don't really understand this post considering I can run across open terrain and just turn on any scrub that tries to shoot me in the back. Ccp made the health high so that skill is a more of a factor. In CoD If someone sneezes on you your dead. So I am a bit confused by this post. Still I don't think movement speeds should be nerfed in the name of complexity considering this is a high health complex strafe and shoot fps. Strafe speed adds to the complexity of gun fights therefor making dust a more complex game. If I just wanted to blast people and head glitch behind cover, I would go play any other console fps.
im not saying nerf speeds, im saying leave them as they are. I am not saying you need to hide behind cover like gears of war, i am simply saying circle strafing as an overall tactic is shenanigans.
why is having high health, tactical gameplay out of the question? We already have vehicle warfare with EW and orbital strikes. youve got enough to worry about already. You dont need to add to it by doing things that anybody whos ever fought wouldnt do in real life.
Okay, so your not risking your life cause its a game....fine, but you are risking your fittings which will be a lot more expensive soon. you can look at it the same way. |
Omnipotent lilmamaj
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
205
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 00:59:00 -
[62] - Quote
Understand that a high strafing speed makes a good game that takes skill. A realistic game would be really boring and take no skill. Two shots to kill everyone. One shot extremely wounded. |
xprotoman23
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1452
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:05:00 -
[63] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:xprotoman23 wrote:Lurchasaurus wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:If you can create "virtual cover" just by wagging back and forth on the left thumbstick, then 90% of the map design is just backdrop for your "elite'" gunfights. We have mixed arms and cover, and sprint mods. You are SIGNIFICANTLY more stable from a nearly immobile stance, but no prone. This means they want good mobility between fights, but you shouldn't be dodging bullets unless you are scout vs heavy. And even then one mistake and the scout is spaghetti. You don't have to like it, but crossing open terrain is supposed to be very dangerous. That is why the defender spawn in Plateau is SO bad - completely open without cover. nice post, its hard to understand why people complain about strafing speed when any good soldier would laugh at you trying to strafe back and forth in a gunfight instead of using cover....Realize that maybe the way you play is not the most efficient and that the realism CCP is striving for might bite you in the ass a lil bit Realism arguments are negated since we are playing a scifi shooter with regenerating shield, lasers, and armor. When it comes to videogames gameplay trumps realism unless you are looking for authenticity. If CCP was looking for realism when I shoot at the treads on a tank after a certain damage threshold it should become immobile and even inoperable. Or when I drop gets shot in one of the thrusters it loses handling. Shielding is cover in this game. Slower game speeds has promoted the pile of crap that has been the E3 build of this game. You fundamentally don't understand* FPS games that aren't about circle strafing it seems. *understand as in comprehend the playstyle and those who enjoy it Shields are for people who don't take damage often or a warning layer for beefier guys to turn and engage a threat. Cover is for cover.
MAG COD and BF aren't circle strafers buddy. They are primarily ADS shooters.
Shields are cover in this game. If it wasn't for shields i guarantee people wouldn't run across the map without worrying about getting blown up. |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:08:00 -
[64] - Quote
Lurchasaurus wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:Lurchasaurus wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:Head glitching behind cover is still very much a tactic in strafe and shoot fps. I see people doing it all the time. Not always effectively but they sure do try it a lot. Regardless of how futuristic the game is or how chaotic the battlefield will be, running in open territory on a whim should be discouraged and mercs should have to actually think. Raising the skill cap here. In any post i make here i will be coming from the opinion that complexity is better. basically, "think before you act" I don't really understand this post considering I can run across open terrain and just turn on any scrub that tries to shoot me in the back. Ccp made the health high so that skill is a more of a factor. In CoD If someone sneezes on you your dead. So I am a bit confused by this post. Still I don't think movement speeds should be nerfed in the name of complexity considering this is a high health complex strafe and shoot fps. Strafe speed adds to the complexity of gun fights therefor making dust a more complex game. If I just wanted to blast people and head glitch behind cover, I would go play any other console fps. im not saying nerf speeds, im saying leave them as they are. I am not saying you need to hide behind cover like gears of war, i am simply saying circle strafing as an overall tactic is shenanigans. why is having high health, tactical gameplay out of the question? We already have vehicle warfare with EW and orbital strikes. youve got enough to worry about already. You dont need to add to it by doing things that anybody whos ever fought wouldnt do in real life. Okay, so your not risking your life cause its a game....fine, but you are risking your fittings which will be a lot more expensive soon. you can look at it the same way. but.. I have never fought in a real war before. I would imagine it would be a lot of camping. All I know is high health shooters are more fun with high strafe speeds. It takes so much more skill to play a strafe and shooter then it does CoD.
So why do we have CoD speeds in this game?
Seriously, you talk about complexity but you want the game to have simple game mechanics. I just don't get it.
On one hand you have people saying they are trying to defend this game from being dumbed down, yet they are the same ones trying to dumb the game down. No offense.
There are plenty of tactics implemented in strafers btw. Its no less tactical then a game with CoD speeds. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:30:00 -
[65] - Quote
xprotoman23 wrote: MAG COD and BF aren't circle strafers buddy. They are primarily ADS shooters.
Shields are cover in this game. If it wasn't for shields i guarantee people wouldn't run across the map without worrying about getting blown up.
ADS shooter and circle strafing might as well be the same thing. And having played all three, I can safely say it doesn't take MORE skill to be good at those. At best it is just different skills.
Shields are only a way to bridge cover. They don't provide any in their own right. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:32:00 -
[66] - Quote
Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote:Understand that a high strafing speed makes a good game that takes skill. A realistic game would be really boring and take no skill. Two shots to kill everyone. One shot extremely wounded.
first part is just opinion and second part is irrelevant since we have established that this is a high health game |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:34:00 -
[67] - Quote
>>>>ADS shooter and circle strafing might as well be the same thing. I'm sorry but I am going to have trouble taking anything else you say after that seriously. |
MUDMASTEI2
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
135
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:34:00 -
[68] - Quote
Lurchasaurus wrote:MUDMASTEI2 wrote:xprotoman23 wrote:last build was for strafers but people cried xprotoman23 wrote:last build was for strafers but people cried xprotoman23 wrote:last build was for strafers but people cried lol interesting..... edit: see how i added to that by quoting you?
That was the plan, Jack. |
Berserker007
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
206
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:35:00 -
[69] - Quote
One thing ive still yet to seeanyone address from my post is the idea of strafe ads vs hip. As like i said, whther is realistic or tactical, you shouldnt be strafing running in circles while you are in ads, hence the term ADS meaning you are trying to be pinpoint accurate, and running around in circles would negate the idea. At that point you would want to hipfire from normal ads ranges as that allows for your faster movements.
As i said, movements speed is fine now, as if you want to run around fast, use scouts & smgs which are mean to be hipfired essentially. Even CCP has said (i believe), that want people to play smart & use cover. Thats why we have buildings with lots of "trailers" to run around and hide behind for protection. If they wnated us to simply strafe our way out of battles theyd have less cover to be used.
But thats just my. 02 |
MUDMASTEI2
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
135
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:36:00 -
[70] - Quote
JaZZa01 wrote:Lurchasaurus wrote:Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote:Higher strafe speed is a necessity. Just like having a gun or having a HUD. not necessarily that is pure opinion. maybe CCP wants low strafe speed as a fundamental game mechanic Then CCP want the game to fail. Enjoy.
JaZZa CCP wanting this game to fail is already evident by the fact the game is grind2win. |
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Omnipotent lilmamaj
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
205
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:38:00 -
[71] - Quote
MUDMASTEI2 wrote:JaZZa01 wrote:Lurchasaurus wrote:Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote:Higher strafe speed is a necessity. Just like having a gun or having a HUD. not necessarily that is pure opinion. maybe CCP wants low strafe speed as a fundamental game mechanic Then CCP want the game to fail. Enjoy. JaZZa CCP wanting this game to fail is already evident by the fact the game is grind2win. +1 The faster they understand this is a fps, the more successful this game will be, and they will gain a more consistent player base. |
xprotoman23
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1452
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:38:00 -
[72] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:>>>>ADS shooter and circle strafing might as well be the same thing. I'm sorry but I am going to have trouble taking anything else you say after that seriously.
I'm done here Noc Tempre lost |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:40:00 -
[73] - Quote
Berserker007 wrote:One thing ive still yet to seeanyone address from my post is the idea of strafe ads vs hip. As like i said, whther is realistic or tactical, you shouldnt be strafing running in circles while you are in ads, hence the term ADS meaning you are trying to be pinpoint accurate, and running around in circles would negate the idea. At that point you would want to hipfire from normal ads ranges as that allows for your faster movements.
As i said, movements speed is fine now, as if you want to run around fast, use scouts & smgs which are mean to be hipfired essentially. Even CCP has said (i believe), that want people to play smart & use cover. Thats why we have buildings with lots of "trailers" to run around and hide behind for protection. If they wnated us to simply strafe our way out of battles theyd have less cover to be used.
But thats just my. 02 I am pretty sure I addressed that. Nerf ADS strafe speed and then just put strafe speed back to what it was last build. (I don't even see a problem with ADS strafe speed tbh but if you say so.) Problem solved. You can't strafe your way out of anything if you can't aim. The person who has the better aim will win. Its all about skill. Since the game is already G2W lets at least make the gun fights about skill not corner camping/Cod tactics/camping. Thats lame imho.
Go back to CoD if you want a low strafe speed game TROLLOLOLOL
I jest. I jest. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:46:00 -
[74] - Quote
xprotoman23 wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:>>>>ADS shooter and circle strafing might as well be the same thing. I'm sorry but I am going to have trouble taking anything else you say after that seriously. I'm done here Noc Tempre lost
Oh yes, I bow down before your magnificence. I have seen the error of my ways. CLEARLY there is a huge gulf between circling each other holding L1 and not. |
JAG ONE
97
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:47:00 -
[75] - Quote
comparing strafe speeds in this build to the last one.. I have mixed feelings. the last build "played" a lot faster, but at the same time you frequently had those ridiculous strafing matches that took 2-3 full mags and sometimes not even that was enough. i liked the strafe speed in the last build because it made me harder to hit.
in the current build I hated the strafe speed at first, but now i'm getting used to it as I use cover more, and fights are a lot quicker now which I also like.
i'm not convinced that the slower strafe speed has resulted in all the red-lining matches we see on plateaus right now. I think that has more to do with the increased use of tanks and drop ships because the plateau map is quite open. last build we didn't have a lot of tank use until the end of the build, plus the terrain features of craterlake allowed safe vantage points for AV play. we don't have that currently with plateaus, and I think that has resulted in tanks running rampant and basically winning matches. |
Omnipotent lilmamaj
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
205
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:47:00 -
[76] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:xprotoman23 wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:>>>>ADS shooter and circle strafing might as well be the same thing. I'm sorry but I am going to have trouble taking anything else you say after that seriously. I'm done here Noc Tempre lost , I bow down before your magnificence. . you should tbqh |
Berserker007
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
206
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:48:00 -
[77] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:Berserker007 wrote:One thing ive still yet to seeanyone address from my post is the idea of strafe ads vs hip. As like i said, whther is realistic or tactical, you shouldnt be strafing running in circles while you are in ads, hence the term ADS meaning you are trying to be pinpoint accurate, and running around in circles would negate the idea. At that point you would want to hipfire from normal ads ranges as that allows for your faster movements.
As i said, movements speed is fine now, as if you want to run around fast, use scouts & smgs which are mean to be hipfired essentially. Even CCP has said (i believe), that want people to play smart & use cover. Thats why we have buildings with lots of "trailers" to run around and hide behind for protection. If they wnated us to simply strafe our way out of battles theyd have less cover to be used.
But thats just my. 02 I am pretty sure I addressed that. Nerf ADS strafe speed and then just put strafe speed back to what it was last build. Problem solved. You can't strafe your way out of anything if you can't aim. The person who has the better aim will win. Its all about skill. Since the game is already G2W lets at least make the gun fights about skill not corner camping/Cod tactics/camping. Thats lame imho. Go back to CoD if you want a low strafe speed game TROLLOLOLOL I jest.
If address it i missed it, as typing all this on my phone. Personally i find ads strafe speed to be perfect. The downside i see to increasing hipfire strafe, is that it will cater WAY to much to scouts. If they run adv/proto smgs, id say just about veryone will be donezo, as they are already are really hard to hit in a cqb situation, and with how fast RE can be SET (even with timer going into place), by time they set do a circle, they'll be able to set it off. Thats why i like how hipfire strafe is now. Overall i find the strafing gives everyone a good chance in all situations.
If heavy is caught in open w/o cover by assault he is in trouble. Scout catches heavy in cqb, heavy in trouble. Assault catches scout in midrange, he is in trouble, etc ... in all situaitons at moment, strafing can be effetctive whether its hipfire or ads; by altering it, it could cause more gameplay problems |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:52:00 -
[78] - Quote
Berserker007 wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:Berserker007 wrote:One thing ive still yet to seeanyone address from my post is the idea of strafe ads vs hip. As like i said, whther is realistic or tactical, you shouldnt be strafing running in circles while you are in ads, hence the term ADS meaning you are trying to be pinpoint accurate, and running around in circles would negate the idea. At that point you would want to hipfire from normal ads ranges as that allows for your faster movements.
As i said, movements speed is fine now, as if you want to run around fast, use scouts & smgs which are mean to be hipfired essentially. Even CCP has said (i believe), that want people to play smart & use cover. Thats why we have buildings with lots of "trailers" to run around and hide behind for protection. If they wnated us to simply strafe our way out of battles theyd have less cover to be used.
But thats just my. 02 I am pretty sure I addressed that. Nerf ADS strafe speed and then just put strafe speed back to what it was last build. Problem solved. You can't strafe your way out of anything if you can't aim. The person who has the better aim will win. Its all about skill. Since the game is already G2W lets at least make the gun fights about skill not corner camping/Cod tactics/camping. Thats lame imho. Go back to CoD if you want a low strafe speed game TROLLOLOLOL I jest. If address it i missed it, as typing all this on my phone. Personally i find ads strafe speed to be perfect. The downside i see to increasing hipfire strafe, is that it will cater WAY to much to scouts. If they run adv/proto smgs, id say just about veryone will be donezo, as they are already are really hard to hit in a cqb situation, and with how fast RE can be SET (even with timer going into place), by time they set do a circle, they'll be able to set it off. Thats why i like how hipfire strafe is now. Overall i find the strafing gives everyone a good chance in all situations. If heavy is caught in open w/o cover by assault he is in trouble. Scout catches heavy in cqb, heavy in trouble. Assault catches scout in midrange, he is in trouble, etc ... in all situaitons at moment, strafing can be effetctive whether its hipfire or ads; by altering it, it could cause more gameplay problems Squishy scout suits won't be as popular once they completely fix hit detection and nerf REs. I wouldn't worry about them to much. |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:55:00 -
[79] - Quote
Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:xprotoman23 wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:>>>>ADS shooter and circle strafing might as well be the same thing. I'm sorry but I am going to have trouble taking anything else you say after that seriously. I'm done here Noc Tempre lost , I bow down before your magnificence. . you should tbqh LOL
btw where is the real omnipotent one? Haven't seen him on the leader boards. zitro and lilmamaJ are moejoe wannabes. |
Berserker007
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
206
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:58:00 -
[80] - Quote
True, but ya never know, plus by increasing hipfire spped, will that also have an affect on turn speed (not sensitivity, idk if possible), as that will also alter the heavy mechanics.
Again, we all have our opinions, if things had to be done, id say keep ads as is, and try and find a happy medium b/t this build and last builds hipfire strafe, as i know probably 75% of my kills now are ads, whereas last buld almost everything was hipfire |
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Omnipotent lilmamaj
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
205
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 02:01:00 -
[81] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:xprotoman23 wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:>>>>ADS shooter and circle strafing might as well be the same thing. I'm sorry but I am going to have trouble taking anything else you say after that seriously. I'm done here Noc Tempre lost , I bow down before your magnificence. . you should tbqh LOL btw where is the real omnipotent one? Haven't seen him on the leader boards. zitro and lilmamaJ are moejoe wannabes. moejoe says he will not be playing dust until everything is fixed. He will not be playing until fpsers get their way. Until then, no moejoe :( he barely even signs in anymore. |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 02:11:00 -
[82] - Quote
That sucks, I was looking forward to getting some sick game play of the beta once release time comes.
I guess I will have to watch Pdiggys game play.
loljk |
Omnipotent lilmamaj
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
205
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 02:13:00 -
[83] - Quote
Don't worry he has something in store. Once the NDA is loosened, expect a vid. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 03:20:00 -
[84] - Quote
Early on (having only joined near the beginning of the current build), I felt like this was a total non-issue, because while the strafing speed is slow, you can run, or sprint, turn, fire, THEN strafe just to stay behind someone.
But the more I play, the more it seems like a SMALL increase to strafe speed would be beneficial - from what little I got to see in (NDA-breaking) video footage of the previous build, that was too much, but somewhere between then and now would be nice. |
xprotoman23
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1452
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 03:20:00 -
[85] - Quote
This thread is a classic |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
259
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 03:22:00 -
[86] - Quote
xprotoman23 wrote:This thread is a classic Really? We have like twenty of the same threads, one on every page or two just like it. This thread is another tiresome clone, and people have run out of things to argue about. |
BattleCry1791
70
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 10:31:00 -
[87] - Quote
I'm still trying to figure this out.
Strafing gameplay: Find fastest armor available Find bullet hose gun with high DPS that's only good in CQC to medium range. Dance around target while jumping like a sugar plumb fairy Beg for increased hip firing accuracy
equals "better" gameplay? More "pro" gameplay? "superior" gamplay?
However, taking time to aim down sight, land 7 to 10 shots at center mass and register a kill from distance = "bad", "inferior", "camper", gameplay?
Sounds to me like the aforementioned "pro" FPS strafing style is for twitch ridden ADD 12 year olds and the latter would be for the adults in the room.
I really didn't want to come back to this beta until they did another build as I really don't like this map all that much. But if I have to keep coming back here to keep you circle strafing jag offs from turning this game into a run and gun POS like you want...if you want to turn this into MAG 2 + extra speed, then I'll make sure I stick around to offer a counterpoint.
Mojoe, Piggy, and the rest of the kills over wins, grims over hours, and KDR whores are what helped to kill off any kind of meta for that game and turned into a stale piece of garbage like every other FPS I've seen come down the pike.
I'd prefer not to see you idiots do it with this one too.
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Iceyburnz
316
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 10:37:00 -
[88] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote: Make this into a real strafe and shoot fps. What we are playing now just feels to slow and bulky.
The replication build was exactly this. But people complained because its wasn't "fast" enough. The result is what we have today. Ironically many of the people who complained left anyway.
IMHO the sights and hip fire in Replication for assault rifles was about right. E3 build totally sucks. |
JaZZa01
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
81
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 11:07:00 -
[89] - Quote
Lurchasaurus wrote:Clearly CCP doesnt want the game to fail. You dont have to like complex battle simulators.....theres always arcade style shooters for ya bud.
edit: aimed at JaZZa01 LOL? Please tell me you didn't just liken DUST to a complex battle simulator.. |
xprotoman23
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1452
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 16:46:00 -
[90] - Quote
Iceyburnz wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote: Make this into a real strafe and shoot fps. What we are playing now just feels to slow and bulky.
The replication build was exactly this. But people complained because its wasn't "fast" enough. The result is what we have today. Ironically many of the people who complained left anyway. IMHO the sights and hip fire in Replication for assault rifles was about right. E3 build totally sucks.
In addition to what's been said above. The E3 build and it's slower gameplay has lead to a defensive style of play which favors camping and promotes redlining. Last build redlining could happen and it was much worse than what we have now considering you could basically sit right on top of people as they spawn into the game. However though it wasn't prevalent because the gameplay was fast enough that matches could end up in a real struggle. |
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