Skillup

last build was for strafers but people cried

sorry, but it doesnt work that way.....if you wanna move faster mod up or go with a lighter dropsuit...dont like getting splashed to death? wear a walking tank.....


whether the game needs an overall change to movement speed or not, i think CCP has found a sweet spot and it shouldnt be changed. Heavies arent supposed to be sprinters. I actually appreciate what they have done with heavies moving slower while charging forge guns. I say that being a forge gun user. it just makes sense. Would like the charge indicator back tho.

How ya gonna feel when we get EW and someone throws a webifier at you and you suddenly cant move and get absolutely buttraped by some guy lol. itll probably happen to all of us sooner or later

um...no im not....read the post you just quoted.

In addition, you dont have to walk around on the ground 100% of the time to know how these mechanics work. No one starts out being a tank driver.....

i never told you to get in a tank.....in my first post talking about a walking tank i meant the amarr heavy suit....

and to noc, yes i agree. i also used militia tanks but you cant always have a tank out, so i use my heavy.
sometimes i still use militias to test the vehicle queue, hate losing money to that ****.

The whole point of the heavy is that its slow and bulky......if you NEED more speed use a speed mod, thats why there are skills and market assets you can buy for speed.....

your complaining about something that already has a solution you wont use

edit: if you dont like that.....well sorry bud, there are no god suits in this game

In replication redlining was virtually nonexistent. (there were a few isolated occasions where it did happen, but that was one side might have been stacked with good players. Replication was fast and very in your face in terms of action. Tears started flowing on the forums that people were moving too fast and nobody would stay still so a care bear could get a kill. Generally speaking eveybody liked the strafing speeds because it gave the game identity and was different from every other game on the market that caters to ADS play.

CareBears claimed DUST was supposed to be this "tactical" team based shooter almost akin to something you would find in a SOCOM trailer.

E3 build comes gameplay is slowed down people can't strafe as well as they could last build. So what happens? Redlining happens. People quit out of games or resort to sniping behind the redline. Matches are one sided and this game becomes boring.

Personally, i find the strafe speed to be good at this point, as last build you were able to strafe ads to fast, as idk if anyone here actually has done that, but u cant run and stafe while ads fast like you could build. This build allowes good strafe speed for hipfire and reduced for ads firing which it should. Either skill into a scout suit to get upclose and hipfire or make each shot count while adsNot saying dont have skill, as have seen u play, but i think movement speed is actually one of the things i find that work really well

i agree, i think that the movement speed is fine in this build. proto, you cant say the game will break once KBM comes into play cause we havenst seen it implemented yet. you want more speed, get a lighter suit or mods and skills

skills and mods dont affect strafe speed?

very good point. heavy suits play differently and you have to accept that play styles are different for each type of suit. If you are unwilling to be that complex in your gameplay then you just gonna have to accept that disadvantage.

not necessarily that is pure opinion. maybe CCP wants low strafe speed as a fundamental game mechanic

What we have right now is COD in space in terms of strafe speeds

that my very well be the case, as its the best fixit they could have done without having to do an overhaul of the hit detection.

i am just of the opinion that all this strafing in open ground bullshit is stupid and people need to learn to use cover. Strafe speed is eralistic and fine. Use a lighter suit or deal with the current speeds. There are no god suits here....

Regardless of how futuristic the game is or how chaotic the battlefield will be, running in open territory on a whim should be discouraged and mercs should have to actually think. Raising the skill cap here. In any post i make here i will be coming from the opinion that complexity is better.

basically, "think before you act"

im not saying nerf speeds, im saying leave them as they are. I am not saying you need to hide behind cover like gears of war, i am simply saying circle strafing as an overall tactic is shenanigans.

why is having high health, tactical gameplay out of the question? We already have vehicle warfare with EW and orbital strikes. youve got enough to worry about already. You dont need to add to it by doing things that anybody whos ever fought wouldnt do in real life.

Okay, so your not risking your life cause its a game....fine, but you are risking your fittings which will be a lot more expensive soon. you can look at it the same way.

One thing ive still yet to seeanyone address from my post is the idea of strafe ads vs hip. As like i said, whther is realistic or tactical, you shouldnt be strafing running in circles while you are in ads, hence the term ADS meaning you are trying to be pinpoint accurate, and running around in circles would negate the idea. At that point you would want to hipfire from normal ads ranges as that allows for your faster movements.

As i said, movements speed is fine now, as if you want to run around fast, use scouts & smgs which are mean to be hipfired essentially. Even CCP has said (i believe), that want people to play smart & use cover. Thats why we have buildings with lots of "trailers" to run around and hide behind for protection. If they wnated us to simply strafe our way out of battles theyd have less cover to be used.

But thats just my. 02

If address it i missed it, as typing all this on my phone. Personally i find ads strafe speed to be perfect. The downside i see to increasing hipfire strafe, is that it will cater WAY to much to scouts. If they run adv/proto smgs, id say just about veryone will be donezo, as they are already are really hard to hit in a cqb situation, and with how fast RE can be SET (even with timer going into place), by time they set do a circle, they'll be able to set it off. Thats why i like how hipfire strafe is now. Overall i find the strafing gives everyone a good chance in all situations.

If heavy is caught in open w/o cover by assault he is in trouble. Scout catches heavy in cqb, heavy in trouble. Assault catches scout in midrange, he is in trouble, etc ... in all situaitons at moment, strafing can be effetctive whether its hipfire or ads; by altering it, it could cause more gameplay problems

you should tbqh

I'm still trying to figure this out.

Strafing gameplay:
Find fastest armor available
Find bullet hose gun with high DPS that's only good in CQC to medium range.
Dance around target while jumping like a sugar plumb fairy
Beg for increased hip firing accuracy

equals "better" gameplay? More "pro" gameplay? "superior" gamplay?

However, taking time to aim down sight, land 7 to 10 shots at center mass and register a kill from distance = "bad", "inferior", "camper", gameplay?

Sounds to me like the aforementioned "pro" FPS strafing style is for twitch ridden ADD 12 year olds and the latter would be for the adults in the room.

Don't worry crimson its just ignorance.

Crimson, you clearly don't know what "bulky" means, so please stop using it or use it correctly.

"Bulky" means that something is large or takes up a lot of space. A big suitcase is bulky. A mattress is bulky. A heavy winter coat is bulky Gameplay is not.

In playing with you, and some of the others top guys in the beta and prior experience, you simply CANT have a game based on pure skill. It sounds good to those who have it, but for everyone else, you essen5ially alienate probably 90% of the possible community, as those who arent to your skill level will probably lose 99/100 times.

Im not saying dumb it down, but it needs to be able to cater to a bigger community. This game already may take hits based on final graphis (as cod fanboys will compare it), the indepth game play and time required (as this generatiom is run bby12yr olds who want to run and gun and get all the OP gear ina day or two). By allowing to have at least the mechanics suit everyones needs, it will help the game in numbers.

As ive said in all my posts, i find the strafing to work fine now, as it gives u enough ability to dodge a few bullets and hit others. As need to remember, everyone should have a chance to wina gun fight, as you have guns/gear/skill to also affect outcomes. if not, you'll turn new people off to the game right away as what new person will say in a game where they have no chance to get a kill based on skills/game mechanics,/weaponary/gear?

Why would you ever cater to casuals? You're giving handouts and freebees to people who don't deserve it. Don't let CCP hold your hand like Treyarch and Infinity Ward do. This is what society has come to. A bunch of lazy people who expect to be gifted everything.

................cookies?

lol i know what strafing is.

Your post also explains why i think its great why speed mods dont affect strafing.

I am not trying to debate the fact that strafing is a legit way of killing an enemy before he kills you.

My points are:

#1 - Strafing speeds are fine as is because it discourages circle strafing, a silly tactic.

#2 - I love circle strafing because its usually in open territory, meaning i can splash you with my railgun from far away.

#3 - You either strafe slowly and utilize more health, or you strafe faster and wear a scout suit. You cant have both. There are no god suits.

#4 - I believe an overall increase to strafe speed is unneeded since most of the problems people are having with fights are due to hitboxing, which when fixed, is going to change the way a lot of you see shootouts.

#5 - DS3 players being at a disadvantage to KB+M players due to strafe speeds is bunk. That is not a movement issue but a control balancing issue, completely different things. CCP is really gonna have to tackle that the right way.

We aren't trying to make this game Quake Live. We want just a bit faster so it takes more skill for the 1v1's. It barely even matters to me because this weekend I will devote my booster and skill points to AV weaponry to show those nub munchkins who's boss.

well im sorry thats how you play.......

Please dont spin my words, clearly im not in favor of dumbing the game down. As far as your first sentence, fair enough, that is a matter of opinon between you and i.

The whole KB+M thing again, is reliant on how CCP balances that. They chose to implement that, so they have to find what works. Changing the core gameplay because they are adding in a different control scheme shouldnt happen. The only thing that should change is that one guy is controlling his guy with a different set of hardware. This is why its hard to implement KB+M and make it balanced with the DS3. I hope to god they dont ruin the game with ridiculous aim assist.

You tell me hitboxes are not an issue in this build and that strafe speeds should be faster, when all i can think of is scout suits.

However overused that line is or whatever, thats just the way this build is right now and you cant deny that part.

There's a thread in the "feedback" forums where people are asking CCP to nerf hipfire so people can walk around with their guns shoved far up their ass.

Very good point. I am saying that while you may not like what they are doing, i think its fantastic and ive been waiting for a game like this for a long time. Connecting to EVE is not the only unique thing theyare doing. There is a whole MMO aspect to this game. I also love that. You dont, fine. Im sorry Dust isnt turning out to be the perfect game for you. As much as you ahve a right to say it should be different, i have a right to say its spot on.

Simply saying i have this belief so therefore i must have no skill is funny and one of the most common incompetent arguments on the internet.

CCP doesnt build games around balance, they build them around the perfect imbalance.

dont waste my time by comparing the MMO aspects of MAG and tribes to Dust....they are on completely different levels. Planetside, thats a different story. Although it is very MMO-ish, id be as bold as to say its selling point is more of the sandbox style than MMO parts.

You say perfect imbalance sucks and doesnt belong, but thats how CCP does things, plain and simple. If CCP says something counter to what i just said, or future gameplay proves opposite, than fine. I respectfully take back my words. I only say what i do based on my prior knowledge of CCP.

This thread is full of laughs. We get more frames and better hit detection and that somehow ruined the game. I think you are just mad that you can't riverdance through bullets anymore and thus are promoting it as skill. As much as you chose to ignore it, the positioning at the start of the fight should be more important that your ability to weave through bullets.

while i also acknowlege Crimson's point, i want to note that Noc had a good point as far as Dust demanding a different style of play.

Gun fights are just like COD I see you first I win mentality aim assist garbage!

look, if you go at a Corp battle like COD, you probably are gonna be poor very fast.

CCP knows tho that not everyone is into the whole complex battlefield thing, so they have something just for you.

Its called the Gladiator Arena and you can fight and win completely based on your skills. People will bet on you and you will be well known if you are good. I for one know a bunch of guys ima bet on and ill make a killing. Those who feel like they are gods among men in the FPS realm can have a chance to be just that.

One point I am compelled to bring up is be prepared to fight slower.

Yup. Slower. The reason being is Dust514 is not going to all be on planets with the same gravity, luminosity, temperature, weather, atmosphere, terrain, or environmental dangers. The hope as having been expressed by some devs is that Dust514 will be able to go nearly everywhere in the future.

Corban's post captures the crux of it.

I'm certain that the vocal minority's cry for a strafier, more mainstream fpsier dust are primarily motivated by a KDR farming playstyle. It allows for more lone wolfing, and demands less integrated, thoughtful, teamwork.

After months of trying to take their arguments seriously, for my money that's the beginning and the end of it.

careful crimson, your tone is borderline douche lol

WATCH 4V4 Halo 3 MLG footage and then tell me if high strafe speed creates lone wolfing

ITS CALLED TEAM SHOTS

I understand what they want. I merely reject their conclusions on what it will achieve.

1) Vs KBM - I disagree strongly, to the point I am convinced this is a scare tactic line that hasn't actually been thought about at all. Slower speeds mean less importance on moving your cursor extremely fast which translates into a smaller benefit to less of an imbalance.
2) Reward Skill - I counter there are two kinds of skill being discusses here, and confusing them is leading to a lot of problems. Yes there is skill to reflexes and gunplay and other split-second decisions. But it is not the ONLY skill that matters. I don't think it improves gameplay if the guy with more gun skill will be able to turn around and kill the guy with the stronger position (no matter how he got it, even if it was luck or "being cheap"). I understand the other argument, I just don't accept it.

So yes, my definition of rewarding intelligent play means I believe the guy shooting from behind should force the gungame guy to dive for cover before attempting to engage. If he does successfully get around that corner, the decision should be between reversing the trap, dragging it out until you have recovered shields, or finding allies to outnumber. At no point do I see the ability to skip all those steps by turning around and juking to victory adding more room for different strategies. In fact, in my opinion, it seems to neutralize most strategies.

DUST is clearly trying to cater to the cerebral shooter. While both twitch based play and tactics based play should cohabitate, a decision about who wins in the extreme match up of good gun skills vs good tactics is going to be controversial to the side that the game punishes. So yes, there are games, great games, that will let good skills win the vast majority of their fights irregardless of the "opening", but at the time, I don't think that is DUST.

On a side note: DUST business strategy clearly wants everyone to be going through lots and lots of clones and equipment to make AUR items appear more attractive while also making even an attempt at pay to win skyrocket into the hundreds of dollars a month - a level where it would be absurd to believe large numbers of people will be able to influence or unbalance the game this way.

It is a problem in CoD because no matter how good you play, there is no way to control the map. There are no lines of battle, only random chaos from any direction at any time, which is why that game would benefit from skill allowing dodging of bullets.

I HATE COD. Nothing but campers and random deaths galore. DUST plays nothing like that at the moments, with the exception of the broken defense spawn on plateau, which is easily avoided, albeit very hard to break.

The fact that you are saying one kind of "true skill" is making it very clear you have no idea what you're on about. Balance is moot, you just want to buff scissors since that's the only thing you bring to the table.

You must not be playing COD right if you don't know how to Spawn Trap/Choke. COD is a game of positioning and forcing your opponents spawn. It honestly has little to do with twitch reactions. It's more about setting up and controlling the map. The best COD players aren't going to run around looking for kills seeing as they'll choke you into a kill funnel and proceed to drop killstreaks.

It doesn't take much skill to spawn trap and force spawns in COD or any other game that has similar randomized spawning.

In actual battles, money and numbers will be the most important issue. I don't think how you want 1v1 to play out really matters.

Plus I think tactics should be emphasized over twitch reflexes. There are plenty of other FPSes that emphasize individual skill and epeen. If you want duels that pit your twitch reflex "skill" directly against someone else's, maybe you should play one of them.

I think slower movement speed is better because it makes tactics, cover use, and combined arms (ie: vehicles, orbital strikes, etc) more important. If you are moving around out of cover in front of the enemy, you should die. If you want to attack an defending enemy, you should be forced to use flanking, vehicle support, artillery, orbital strikes or whatever instead of just being able to strafe faster than they can aim.

I do think that fast "speed-tanking" fittings should be possible, but they should require lots of specialization and be otherwise balanced.

Headglitching is a pretty fancy word for "using cover". I've yet to see any instance of shooting through walls at while only exposing the head. Heavies have an issue with shooting at the same height as an AR, but that's merely disorienting as a bug, not game-breaking.

i also want to make it clear from here on out that the only game type i play on dust is skirmish.......just a heads up. dont really care about TDM, otherwise id play a diff game. i want the complexities....fair enough?

cool

we understand each other then. i hope you hold the same kind of respect for me and my experience in games as i allow you. shoving credentials on a forum is douchier than douchy and you can really only tell if someone knows what they are talking about by reading their posts without the fanboyism....from either side.

mechanics for ambush are one thing, but gameplay in skirmish is a completely different beast. Thats why im so excited for Dust, cause as a long time gamer, i feel like im finally getting something that can actually pose a challenge again. Dark souls was a piece of cake....almost a let down....

sorry if i sounded like i was tooting my own horn there, wasnt the intention. just saying im looking forward to some serious corp battles.

Also, you better win in the arena cause ima bet money on you crimson and you better win. Im gonna use your sorry hide for making a profit mwahahahaha

WRONG AGAIN, its just not your day Noc

LoL....why you guys with FPS experience want to ruin the Eve on the ground grinding experience? Imma get me a mining drop suit and bust me some rocks for some cash. Who's in?