Summary: Too long didn't read give me likes

Basically what they are saying when they say it's not a true fps is really "it's not a CoD clone" or "It's not an Arcade Shooter". Which IMO is great because those types of shooters are terrible. Flashy....but terrible.

CoD has its moments, but it's a totally different style of game. Sure it's in the FPS umbrella, but its "jump in, shoot, jump out" and then do it all again. It has no lasting value. If I want to play a quick 15 minute match before work, maybe I'd play a quick game of Headquarters or something. But Dust is much more in-depth, and the games will probably end up being a bit longer than 15 minutes in some cases.

Basically what they are saying when they say it's not a true fps is really "it's not a CoD clone" or "It's not an Arcade Shooter". Which IMO is great because those types of shooters are terrible. Flashy....but terrible.

Wrong.

Please elaborate.

@Veigar,

You missed a memo.

You have to substitute "MAG 2.0" for "True FPS" and you'll pretty much see the true complaint that lot have.

Same people, same complaints.

Your wrong and you have no idea what your talking about.

He is not wrong, he has an opinion. Unless having the brain capacity to generate free thinking is a crime, he is not wrong. I agree with him that arcade style shooters get very stale, very fast.

He made a statement about what people are looking for not an opinion. And the statement he made is wrong.

People aren't looking for another CoD like game, the only people I see bringing up CoD in the first place are people trying to defend Dust in it's lack of decent fundamentals that should be implemented in all FPS's. CoD isn't the first FPS out there but it got popular because it does the fundamentals and it does them really well.

The guy clearly doesn't understand FPS's if he automatically associates every compliant with CoD even when nobody has mentioned CoD. He made a statement and he clearly doesn't understand what people are talking about and thus he is wrong.

Oh I see what you're saying. And in that case, he is quite right. I have seen several posts that say "nerf vehicles, this is an FPS not a tank game" or "lets see more small areas where you can't get vehicles, they shouldn't be the focus of an FPS" or "lets get rid of vehicles, they don't belong in an FPS". And, what is the most popular FPS right now that doesn't offer vehicle warfare..? You guessed it, CoD.

CoD does have vehicles they are just in form of killstreaks and not readily available anytime you want them. And the majority of FPS's don't allow for vehicles to be used. And when they are they aren't the end all be all of the game, They are used as tools to get to an ultimate goal but are not the rulers of a battlefield which at this time vehicles are in Dust which doesn't bring fun FPS gameplay.

CoD does have vehicles they are just in form of killstreaks and not readily available anytime you want them. And the majority of FPS's don't allow for vehicles to be used. And when they are they aren't the end all be all of the game, They are used as tools to get to an ultimate goal but are not the rulers of a battlefield which at this time vehicles are in Dust which doesn't bring fun FPS gameplay.

You're wrong in your assumptions.
If you're not enjoying yourself now, that's alright. We're at a phase of the beta where vehicle spam is the goal. There is a reason every single noob can get on the battlefield with a tank. The devs are testing vehicle balances.
Later on two things will happen. The first is that vehicles will go back to being what they're supposed to be. A support element for the team and not a personal giant cannon.
The second thing that'll happen is that the entire Dust world in general and the maps in particular will get much much larger. In maps of that large scale you can't really cry "Enough with the vehicles, they are ruining the game!" because they are not. They are a part of the military engagement and will slowly fall into their rightful roles in the battlefield as commanders learn to unilize them properly.

So this is a true FPS. It's just truer than most people realise a FPS is supposed to be - a full blown military simulator.

You're wrong in your assumptions.
If you're not enjoying yourself now, that's alright. We're at a phase of the beta where vehicle spam is the goal. There is a reason every single noob can get on the battlefield with a tank. The devs are testing vehicle balances.
Later on two things will happen. The first is that vehicles will go back to being what they're supposed to be. A support element for the team and not a personal giant cannon.
The second thing that'll happen is that the entire Dust world in general and the maps in particular will get much much larger. In maps of that large scale you can't really cry "Enough with the vehicles, they are ruining the game!" because they are not. They are a part of the military engagement and will slowly fall into their rightful roles in the battlefield as commanders learn to unilize them properly.

So this is a true FPS. It's just truer than most people realise a FPS is supposed to be - a full blown military simulator.

CoD does have vehicles they are just in form of killstreaks and not readily available anytime you want them. And the majority of FPS's don't allow for vehicles to be used. And when they are they aren't the end all be all of the game, They are used as tools to get to an ultimate goal but are not the rulers of a battlefield which at this time vehicles are in Dust which doesn't bring fun FPS gameplay.

Kill streaks in CoD are not "Vehicle Warfare". They are... a game wrecking mechanism in my opinion. Kill streaks promote giving players an unfair advantage. If you are good, then you can win a FFA Deathmatch no problem. But if you aren't the best player in the game, and you just happen to be avoiding the best player, you may rack up enough kills for that chopper gunner. Now, you get to spam the map with an insta-kill for 30 seconds, and that player that was going to beat you, now has no chance because you just knocked your score up by 15 kills in 30 seconds. Suddenly, that game has been ruined for everyone that actually out classes you.

Summary: Too long didn't read give me likes

And how is that different then Dust? Someone has better gun game than you so you spawn in a high powered tank and blow them up.

I guess it's the fact that you have no limit on movement or how long you have that tank or dropship for in Dust that makes the infinite tanks in Dust less game breaking? Not sure how that makes sense but that's all I can think of.

Grit Breather, always coming in with a sound mind on my threads :) Why is it that so few of the people in this beta can wrap their minds around what Dust is right now, and what it is supposed to be 6 months to a year down the line?

Lol. El... Oh.... El... You can spawn free vehicles right now because they are stress testing vehicle warfare. That isn't going to be a part of the final game. It isn't even a game breaking mechanism. Somebody spawns a militia tank, gets somebody in the rocket turret. *BAM* I'm dead, 15,000 ISK Assault suit down the drain... So, I spawn with a forge gun. *BOOM* Vehicle damage +25. *BOOM* Vehicle Destruction +100, Kill +50, Kill +50. I think that should cover my assault suit. If anything, you should be happy people can spawn infinite vehicles right now, stock up on those 100,000 SP vehicle killing games while you can.

And how is that different then Dust? Someone has better gun game than you so you spawn in a high powered tank and blow them up.

I guess it's the fact that you have no limit on movement or how long you have that tank or dropship for in Dust that makes the infinite tanks in Dust less game breaking? Not sure how that makes sense but that's all I can think of.

Your wrong and you have no idea what your talking about.

You're saying that because you're a Call of Duty player(not sure if fanboy though)

Did I say free tank or high powered tank? You should actually read the post before you respond. And your basically saying you don't like killstreaks just because they are in CoD. Vehicles in Dust and kilstreaks in CoD are pretty much the same thing whether you want to admit it or not. If someone gets a klllstreak in CoD you can blow that up too just like it Dust and you even get points for it in both games.

I don't even care about that fact that there are vehicles in Dust it's just that yous are making terrible arguments that don't make any sense and just reek of hypocrisy.

CoD does have vehicles they are just in form of killstreaks and not readily available anytime you want them. And the majority of FPS's don't allow for vehicles to be used. And when they are they aren't the end all be all of the game, They are used as tools to get to an ultimate goal but are not the rulers of a battlefield which at this time vehicles are in Dust which doesn't bring fun FPS gameplay.

I don't play CoD but good try though.

And why not?

I wonder the same thing. It's a problem I usually have in life in general, I see the big picture too easily and have to constantly defend it.

DUST fits the definition of FPS in the strict sense of what FPS means.

It's not a TYPICAL game in the genre though, which throws some people off. Also, it's a beta, so many elements aren't as polished as in most current-gen FPS games. As a result of these problems (and the current builds (probably deliberate) heavy focus on vehicles, people are complaining.

+1 to OP for a well-thought-out thread topic. I've posted similar as side-comments in a few threads.

DUST fits the definition of FPS in the strict sense of what FPS means.

It's not a TYPICAL game in the genre though, which throws some people off. Also, it's a beta, so many elements aren't as polished as in most current-gen FPS games. As a result of these problems (and the current builds (probably deliberate) heavy focus on vehicles, people are complaining.

+1 to OP for a well-thought-out thread topic. I've posted similar as side-comments in a few threads.

I go even further when I usually explain these things.
Dust isn't anything that's ever existed and you can't compare it to anything. Dust is a vision of a future game concept that hasn't been possible before partly due to technology. The biggest problem with this type of game is that most gaming companies put up the question "Cool idea. Now how do I profit off of it?".
The answer usually has a resounding "You can't" which is followed by "OK, so let's make another clone of a game that'll only last a year and will be like all the others". When that's not the answer, it usually breaks up into two.
The first option would be to do what Blizzard did with WoW. They actually make you pay for MANDATORY updates to the game. What they do is basically say you have to pay up or you won't be able to play anymore even though you've already paid so much so far.
The second option is what CCP does with EVE. They have a subscription fee. While this is usually the least prefered gaming method nowadays, somehow EVE made it. I give CCP a whole lot of credit for this. In an age where everyone expects everything to be free, they manage to get people to pay 15$ a month. Some for almost 10 years straight.
So what's Dust? Dust is CCP's latest addition to EVE. Dust if free to play because it promotes EVE.
Sure, you can have a very long and successful carreer in Dust without ever touching EVE but it's my guess a lot of players will want to explore the "bigger picture". It has a very strong pull.
So what else is Dust? It's a vision of an amazing game which has never been tried before. It's a FPS where what I do ACTUALLY MATTERS. If I destroy a large installation, it won't be there again unless someone pays for it again. If I shoot up into the skies I destroy a very expensive ship in EVE and make myself a lifelong enemy.
Dust matters. CoD doesn't matter. BF doesn't matter. MAG doesn't matter.
Dust is the only game where I can actually make my mark and not just grade myself as a solo player.

You want to be solo? Dust probably isn't for you even though it WILL provide some solo PVE missions. But those get old fast and don't pay enough for the really cool gear.

wow.. I could not find a single comment on Kz3 :D

It's Warzone and Operations take's alot planning and tactical leadership when matches done with proper clan :)

Former Kz players will do some damage in future Dust battlefields

Dust is fun.. hope communication would work better tho..

I have been seeing complaints recently, about Dust 514 not being a "True FPS". Let me define the acronym - First Person Shooter.

Now lets elaborate. What does first person mean? Well quite simply, your viewpoint is through your characters eyes. In Dust 514 your viewpoint is exactly this. First person - proven.

And to those of you who don't know what "shooter" means in relation to video games, it would be a game in which you shoot things. Be it a top-down shooter, a Third Person Shooter (TPS) or, in the case of Dust 514, a First Person Shooter.

Dust has all of the things that define what a first person shooter is, so how in the hell is it not a "True FPS"? I am sick of this "QQ to much vehicle warfare, I can't take it. Dust isn't a true FPS" or "QQ people are using remote explosives as grenades, I hate it. Dust isn't a true FPS". I have a question for you people, have you ever, possibly, just maybe, played anything in the Battlefield franchise? What are those big, armored vessels that people tend to blow each other up with? Or what about those things with the big spinning blades that people fly around in? Or the things with jet engines on the back? What are those little packets that people through on the ground and then trigger as you step over them, causing you to die oh-so-horribly? There is a game called PlanetSide, vehicles are a big part of that one too. How else are you going to travel around the continents? I'm sure you don't want to do it on foot.

My point is that vehicle warfare is not new in Dust 514, it does not take away from the experience. Throwing remote explosives around as grenades is not new in Dust 514, may it be a little bit over done, it is not new. In fact, can't you even do that in CoD? I know there are players coming from that crowd. It isn't a problem of method in Dust, it is however a problem of to much inventory. If you equip grenades, you get 3. I've read that Logi's can equip 15 RE's. That is pretty serious overkill.

Anyway, I'm done ranting. All this QQ'ing is just pissing me off, especially with this ******** statement being thrown around.

Edit: I am aware of why people are saying this, I'm just really bothered by the ignorance of the community that has gathered in this beta.

Great a post QQ'ing about the QQ! In BF3 the vehicles can actually be whats that word umm... DESTROYED! You don't need everyone and there grandma to destroy one tank that by the time you get it down it drives away and "SELF HEALS" where in the BF series you need a guy with a "REPAIR KIT" to do that. The problem with RE's is they don't have a charge time.

Secondly to you and the other people assuming that we want another COD or that the majority of us come from COD is stupid. I personally hate the COD franchise never liked it at all even the WWII shooters they kept throwing onto the market. The problem with vehicles in Dust unlike BF hell even the Planetside series is they self heal and take to much work to take them down. I don't see the tanks here in this game, beta whatever you want to call it with a weak spot to it's back.

Also when people say it's not a true FPS they mean it's an FPS that's determined by not who is the most skilled but who has the most skills. This was advertised as a hardcore shooter and it's not turning out to be that way. Hardcore shooters are dependent upon who is the most skilled. Why does someone with a Creo need an extra 20% damage buff? I honestly feel like CCP just threw in skills for the hell of throwing in skills.

And I feel some people want the game to be garbage. I DO want another CoD. But I'm going to get that anyway. I want Dust to be different I agree, but it's the fact what we have now, you can take your tactics and your strategy an stuff ten in your blowhole. Dust is ALL about KDR. Tactics and strategies don't matter when the killers turn up.
***look at all the useless snipers thinkin they're playing Counterstrike and not quake***

Btw MAG is on 2.12. MAG 2 was released as a patch, people just didn't realise. They still don't.

I don't like seeing you on the forums, you don't ever have much to say.

Yeah it's making assumptions. Assumptions like the basic speed-health-damage mix is much closer to Quake or Unreal than any tactical shooter. The reasons are obvious. In CS you just didn't go into the open. Rather similar to CoD or BF when they are played seriously (clan battles, NOT pubs).
Unreal you just dance about and railgun face. Which sounds like our current gameplay, and which involves more tactics/strategy? I'm not saying it's a bad thing in itself. Just got no interest in playing what essentially on a clan war will be a pub game of CoD domination with vehicles.
I'm undecided atleast until next build. CCP have improved things, remember the black screens at the start of this build? All the loadouts being "invalid"? But they don't fix the spawns... priorities are all wrong ;)

Actually, strategy and tactics are limited to off the battlefield IMHO.

I have been seeing complaints recently, about Dust 514 not being a "True FPS". Let me define the acronym - First Person Shooter.

Now lets elaborate. What does first person mean? Well quite simply, your viewpoint is through your characters eyes. In Dust 514 your viewpoint is exactly this. First person - proven.

And to those of you who don't know what "shooter" means in relation to video games, it would be a game in which you shoot things. Be it a top-down shooter, a Third Person Shooter (TPS) or, in the case of Dust 514, a First Person Shooter.

Dust has all of the things that define what a first person shooter is, so how in the hell is it not a "True FPS"? I am sick of this "QQ to much vehicle warfare, I can't take it. Dust isn't a true FPS" or "QQ people are using remote explosives as grenades, I hate it. Dust isn't a true FPS". I have a question for you people, have you ever, possibly, just maybe, played anything in the Battlefield franchise? What are those big, armored vessels that people tend to blow each other up with? Or what about those things with the big spinning blades that people fly around in? Or the things with jet engines on the back? What are those little packets that people through on the ground and then trigger as you step over them, causing you to die oh-so-horribly? There is a game called PlanetSide, vehicles are a big part of that one too. How else are you going to travel around the continents? I'm sure you don't want to do it on foot.

My point is that vehicle warfare is not new in Dust 514, it does not take away from the experience. Throwing remote explosives around as grenades is not new in Dust 514, may it be a little bit over done, it is not new. In fact, can't you even do that in CoD? I know there are players coming from that crowd. It isn't a problem of method in Dust, it is however a problem of to much inventory. If you equip grenades, you get 3. I've read that Logi's can equip 15 RE's. That is pretty serious overkill.

Anyway, I'm done ranting. All this QQ'ing is just pissing me off, especially with this ******** statement being thrown around.

Edit: I am aware of why people are saying this, I'm just really bothered by the ignorance of the community that has gathered in this beta.

Actually, strategy and tactics are limited to off the battlefield IMHO.

wow.. I could not find a single comment on Kz3 :D

It's Warzone and Operations take's alot planning and tactical leadership when matches done with proper clan :)

Former Kz players will do some damage in future Dust battlefields

Dust is fun.. hope communication would work better tho..

I don't know why these people wouldn't think this is an FPS, but maybe what they are saying is that the shooting and movement doesn't feel like a FPS, e.g. it's too slow, clunky, hit detection is subpar, etc. Thoughts?

CoD does = good FPS. It's really stupid to say otherwise. You may not like it, but it IS the benchmark.
Cod 2 was trash compared to CS, CoD4 was the first time on console people wanted to play realistic CS style FPS. I bought a ps3 because of it. MW2 was te one with the nuke of awesomeness. Easy in pubs, impossible to get in a clan match.
The real problem was that MW3 was still the same old. Nothing new. Dust hasn't dropped anything new into the game play YET (don't see much comming though) Oh and black ops is the only game since diehard trilogy on ps1 where you can do just about everything, with or without your buds. Not the best FPS, but dead ops took me back to classic top down shooters.
The huge difference comes outside of matches. That just doesn't interest 9/10 people. The ones who it DOES interest will be able to manage stuff for the guys who aren't interested, leaving them free to play their great FPS.
If Black ops feels more fun, I'll play that and leave new Eden for those who want to grind their face against a techtanium cheese grater. The problem is that "standard" FPS boils down to 2 games. Unreal/Quake or Counterstrike. We currently have the arcade gameplay of old unreal/quake games, but with worse "feel."

I just think the fact it's not a "traditional FPS" (it is though) is a REALLY bad reason to forgive glaring errors. *cough spawn camping for 3 builds*

They are strategies. Not tactics. None of them will save you in a gun fight. And they are bad strategies because they don't involve capping or defending letters.
Gun game > tactics in dust.
Is this what everyone wants.
Thanks for telling me I don't get the game too. You are one of the players who thinks killing and KDR is irrelevant I'll bet.

They are strategies. Not tactics. None of them will save you in a gun fight. And they are bad strategies because they don't involve capping or defending letters.
Gun game > tactics in dust.
Is this what everyone wants.
Thanks for telling me I don't get the game too. You are one of the players who thinks killing and KDR is irrelevant I'll bet.

They are strategies. Not tactics. None of them will save you in a gun fight. And they are bad strategies because they don't involve capping or defending letters.
Gun game > tactics in dust.
Is this what everyone wants.
Thanks for telling me I don't get the game too. You are one of the players who thinks killing and KDR is irrelevant I'll bet.

Bones, real life an the game play on Dust couldn't be further apart. That's my point. An in superhero games like this, tactics and strategy take a back seat to gunplay.
Here's the really brief reason.
I run across the open road. IRL I am dead as soon as I get half way. In dust I sit and regen my whole health back in about 10 seconds and carry on.
I don't really have much of a problem with it. I'll happily railgun face. Less strategy and tactics for me to worry about.

Scale isn't anything to do with strategy or tactics. Go check the actual difference. If you feel the game is tactical then good for you. But it's really not very.

Scale isn't anything to do with strategy or tactics. Go check the actual difference. If you feel the game is tactical then good for you. But it's really not very.

CoD does have vehicles they are just in form of killstreaks and not readily available anytime you want them. And the majority of FPS's don't allow for vehicles to be used. And when they are they aren't the end all be all of the game, They are used as tools to get to an ultimate goal but are not the rulers of a battlefield which at this time vehicles are in Dust which doesn't bring fun FPS gameplay.

Scale isn't anything to do with strategy or tactics. Go check the actual difference. If you feel the game is tactical then good for you. But it's really not very.

Don't worry, the game is a long way from finished. This isn't like the BF3 beta or the StarHawk beta where we are seeing what is really just a demo, not really a beta at all. I'm guessing that we are still 6 months to a year from release, CCP has plenty of time to make changes.

I really am looking forward to how the different player backgrounds affect the team play upon the final release, with the influx of players curious what CCP has to offer.

Scale isn't anything to do with strategy or tactics. Go check the actual difference. If you feel the game is tactical then good for you. But it's really not very.

Oh I see what you're saying. And in that case, he is quite right. I have seen several posts that say "nerf vehicles, this is an FPS not a tank game" or "lets see more small areas where you can't get vehicles, they shouldn't be the focus of an FPS" or "lets get rid of vehicles, they don't belong in an FPS". And, what is the most popular FPS right now that doesn't offer vehicle warfare..? You guessed it, CoD.

CCP has no experience whatsoever in FPS but plenty in RPG so they are doing what they do best but is it right thing for a FPS MMO?
Shouldn't they change this before it's too late as many here say?

Scale is not THE difference. Usually yes, strategies are larger in scale but that is not the difference. I'm glad a few people have carried on with the topic instead of telling me I'm wrong. I was wrong though the game does have tactics, and strategy, just none compared to proper tactical FPS like CS.

Just because vehicle play is not allowed in a lot of FPS games, it doesn't necessarily mean they don't belong in them. Do I get irritated when someone driving a tank with a good fit runs the map and doesn't die? Hell yes. Do I think CCP should remove vehicles from maps or nerf them? Hell no. Vehicle combat was always going to be an integral part of Dust, this is combat on a planetary scale, not just a little sector of a city. I have played other FPS games and finally someone got it right.

LoL, you must get some horrible scores in CS. Read your last sentence and tell me how I can take you seriously. Mini maps REDUCE the amount of tactics as they essentially counter player movement. Hence why games hardcore modes don't have minimaps. I don't suggest removing the map from Dust.
I rather like having my head up my own arse. Means my face can get a tan too.

Also, CCP does have people with experience working on DUST. They have people who used to work for DICE on the project, so they're not as clueless as you think. Even if they were, they've done a damn good job, haven't they?

Don't worry, the game is a long way from finished. This isn't like the BF3 beta or the StarHawk beta where we are seeing what is really just a demo, not really a beta at all. I'm guessing that we are still 6 months to a year from release, CCP has plenty of time to make changes.

I really am looking forward to how the different player backgrounds affect the team play upon the final release, with the influx of players curious what CCP has to offer.

CoD has its moments, but it's a totally different style of game. Sure it's in the FPS umbrella, but its "jump in, shoot, jump out" and then do it all again. It has no lasting value. If I want to play a quick 15 minute match before work, maybe I'd play a quick game of Headquarters or something. But Dust is much more in-depth, and the games will probably end up being a bit longer than 15 minutes in some cases.

@Templar
While I'm not a huge fan of DICE, they know what they are doing. Experienced guys are exactly what CCP need. I never really liked battlefield because of the maps & movement. But if anyone knows how to make the best sounds, and make guns feel like guns, DICE are #1.

I thought the same thing years ago when I learned about it but the state of this build is depressing!
If ex Dice are working on it why FPS mechanics (controls, animation, camera, sounds) are the worst thing in Dust 514?

Now this is me speaking, thinking, about Dust 514 before the beta:

This is me now:

@Veigar,

You missed a memo.

You have to substitute "MAG 2.0" for "True FPS" and you'll pretty much see the true complaint that lot have.

Same people, same complaints.

Wrong ....

MAG had vehicles

Vehicle skills, repair skills, assets, lots of things that aren't in "pure" FPS games. There are SO many mag players who were repair/medic/AV, I can't wait to see grouping in action.

@Larheon
AWP was just a typo. They misspelled WIN.

Is Shooting in First Person enough to qualify Dust 514 as a FPS? YES.
Is it enough to make it a quality FPS? NO.

Now Dust gives a lot of emphasis to Character Building, and we have already FPS/shooters that have this BUT what is really important is how much this RPG elements interfere with the FPS mechanics.
Each VG ask you to apply your skills as a player in a specific task and what is that task in FPS? Shooting.
In FPS you are measured on the quality of you shooting which is determined by 2 things: your reflexes & thinking!
In classic RPG reflexes are important but not as important as in FPS or fighting games or hack & slash.
Action RPG like Demon/Dark Souls give more importance to your reflexes but still without a good character build (gear & in-game skills) you can't truly compete BUT it's intended that way because it's a RPG and there's nothing wrong in it because it's feasible to do that.
Now, the music changes for a FPS because in FPS reflexes are historically 95% of the experience and so you can't say to the FPS player "you need the right gear & in-game skills"...that works for RPG but not for FPS.
Purist of FPS won't like the emphasis CCP is giving to RPG elements simply because it's not what FPS player game for!

CCP has no experience whatsoever in FPS but plenty in RPG so they are doing what they do best but is it right thing for a FPS MMO?
Shouldn't they change this before it's too late as many here say?

Also I would like to say that COD does what it does perfectly, same for BF, Halo & Killzone.
You don't have to like them (I don't like COD because it's too arcade for my taste) but saying that those franchises don't excel it's a lie!



I am sorry to disappoint you but Dust 514 is not 12 months from it's release since it's confirmed to be a 2012 title.
Now we don't even know if it is scheduled for December 2012 so NOBODY can say we have still 6 months left for it to be better.
Also consider that Dust 514 has been in development for a lot of time and that there is always a "non return point" so many things CAN'T be changed!

I'd give you 20 likes if I could.

Given the stated release this year, the likelihood of having passed the point of no return is disconcerting. I hope that's not the case the the FPS mechanics get cleaned up.

What the hell is your definition of a "pure" FPS game? MAG was the "purest" FPS we had til Dust came around (albeit Dust is incomplete and the bigger features aren't there). MAG was a military simulator, doesn't get more pure than that if you ask me.

I have been seeing complaints recently, about Dust 514 not being a "True FPS". Let me define the acronym - First Person Shooter.

Now lets elaborate. What does first person mean? Well quite simply, your viewpoint is through your characters eyes. In Dust 514 your viewpoint is exactly this. First person - proven.

And to those of you who don't know what "shooter" means in relation to video games, it would be a game in which you shoot things. Be it a top-down shooter, a Third Person Shooter (TPS) or, in the case of Dust 514, a First Person Shooter.

Dust has all of the things that define what a first person shooter is, so how in the hell is it not a "True FPS"? I am sick of this "QQ to much vehicle warfare, I can't take it. Dust isn't a true FPS" or "QQ people are using remote explosives as grenades, I hate it. Dust isn't a true FPS". I have a question for you people, have you ever, possibly, just maybe, played anything in the Battlefield franchise? What are those big, armored vessels that people tend to blow each other up with? Or what about those things with the big spinning blades that people fly around in? Or the things with jet engines on the back? What are those little packets that people through on the ground and then trigger as you step over them, causing you to die oh-so-horribly? There is a game called PlanetSide, vehicles are a big part of that one too. How else are you going to travel around the continents? I'm sure you don't want to do it on foot.

My point is that vehicle warfare is not new in Dust 514, it does not take away from the experience. Throwing remote explosives around as grenades is not new in Dust 514, may it be a little bit over done, it is not new. In fact, can't you even do that in CoD? I know there are players coming from that crowd. It isn't a problem of method in Dust, it is however a problem of to much inventory. If you equip grenades, you get 3. I've read that Logi's can equip 15 RE's. That is pretty serious overkill.

Anyway, I'm done ranting. All this QQ'ing is just pissing me off, especially with this ******** statement being thrown around.

Edit: I am aware of why people are saying this, I'm just really bothered by the ignorance of the community that has gathered in this beta.

Pure FPS means you're in first-person ALL the time, and the ONLY objective is to shoot things.

So... Doom isn't a pure FPS either, because of the key-hunting expeditions. So... looking at multiplayer, I don't think we even HAVE a first-person shooter that can be called "pure" legitimately in the current generation. Battlefield gives you vehicles, and with those vehicles you leave your first-person perspective. It also gives objectives other than "shoot ALL the things" so it's not even sticking to that aspect in a "pure" sense.

Military Sim Gëá Pure FPS

Hold on let me call up CCP !!!........
Unn huh ! ya ya thats what he said ..... ok yes ok yes i will o-ok ok ill let him no ok bye !
ok that was CCP they tolled me to tell you this ...
"This is not the CoD game your looking for !"

Well by that logic Wolfenstein 3D wasn't a pure FPS either and it was the first at least the first major title. Also quake wasn't maybe unreal but I don't have experience in that series.

By the logic I gave, I can think of a few pure FPS games. Quake 3: Arena, the Unreal Tournament series, and an older game called XS, which I never played outside the demo, but it was awesome for its time.

My point was that MAG is further from pure FPS than some of those other examples, but that doesn't make it less a part of the genre. Just like DUST's novelties don't make it less a part of the genre.

People argued over whether to slot the original Deus Ex into the FPS genre at first, too. And have you heard of a game called Strife? It was a Doom Engine RPG/FPS, but because of the strength of the FPS elements, its RPG title got ignored by a lot of people.

Really, it doesn't matter.

The game isn't MMOFPS anyway.

It's an economic/financial/political simulator MMO that uses FPS and RPG minigames to resolve wars which are mostly driven, won and lost by the economic and political elements to the game anyway.

What the hell is your definition of a "pure" FPS game? MAG was the "purest" FPS we had til Dust came around (albeit Dust is incomplete and the bigger features aren't there). MAG was a military simulator, doesn't get more pure than that if you ask me.

Great a post QQ'ing about the QQ! In BF3 the vehicles can actually be whats that word umm... DESTROYED! You don't need everyone and there grandma to destroy one tank that by the time you get it down it drives away and "SELF HEALS" where in the BF series you need a guy with a "REPAIR KIT" to do that. The problem with RE's is they don't have a charge time.

Secondly to you and the other people assuming that we want another COD or that the majority of us come from COD is stupid. I personally hate the COD franchise never liked it at all even the WWII shooters they kept throwing onto the market. The problem with vehicles in Dust unlike BF hell even the Planetside series is they self heal and take to much work to take them down. I don't see the tanks here in this game, beta whatever you want to call it with a weak spot to it's back.

Also when people say it's not a true FPS they mean it's an FPS that's determined by not who is the most skilled but who has the most skills. This was advertised as a hardcore shooter and it's not turning out to be that way. Hardcore shooters are dependent upon who is the most skilled. Why does someone with a Creo need an extra 20% damage buff? I honestly feel like CCP just threw in skills for the hell of throwing in skills.

Can't wait until BF4!

on the ps4?

I read the first 7 sentences and stopped, because I already think you're an idiot.


DUST isn't a shooter. It's playtime = dominance and that's MMO gayshit.

lol. I have 3.5m SP total, and it's spread over CQC, AR, and AV skills. I only have 2 advanced items in my inventory. I consistently beat players with upwards of 10m SP with full protosuits. Playtime does not equal winning, player skill does. You just aren't using the tools you are provided properly.

And I have 4.1mil and have lost count of how many times I've helped my team take down a Sagaris while I'm only using Militia gear. I've landed the finishing blow on several Suryas with a Militia SL, and have soloed multiple Madrugars and other low-tier HAVs. With LAVs and dropships, I can even take on the Proto models solo with all-Militia fits and have a reasonable expectation for success.

When I'm using GOOD gear (a rarity), I can do a LOT of damage... or a lot of healing, depending on which loadout I'm using.

It makes me wonder what these players are doing wrong.. So many of us are doing fine with militia/standard/advanced gear, and so many others are saying "If you don't have full proto, you lose".

I definitely feel like I'm at a distadvantage using only my Militia fittings, but the point is that, while I'm not as capable without the good gear, I'm still USEFUL.

The "go Proto or go home" applies when players are of even skill. It doesn't matter too much. My Proto assault suits can't outrun Dropship missiles or Sagaris railguns or go toe to toe with Proto heavies. The rock paper scissors thing applies, but if 2 assault guys fight, my money is on the prototype dude beating a militia chap.

lol. I have 3.5m SP total, and it's spread over CQC, AR, and AV skills. I only have 2 advanced items in my inventory. I consistently beat players with upwards of 10m SP with full protosuits. Playtime does not equal winning, player skill does. You just aren't using the tools you are provided properly.

You're trying to tell me that playtime = dominance?

. . . Really? This place hit a new low with this post.

First you have contradicted yourself. I am guessing it was an oversight and you meant to say that you are trying to tell me that playtime does not equal dominance.

Second perhaps you have misunderstood the repeated definitions of MMO. Massively Multiplayer Online. Try to be clear in your words as some of them mean something besides what you think.

Third if you don't like it don't play it bye bye have fun now.

Yes.

It's more MMO than shooter. MMO's reward playtime with more powerful weapons, while FPS games do that to an extent, there's a stopping point. Not in DUST, DUST is a game where the guy with 1 hour get wrecked by the guy with 100, and the guy with 100 gets wrecked by the guy with 1,000, etc. That's stupid.

I don't play it, it had a chance, but then again I overlooked that CCP is an MMO designer, not a FPS, so they're clueless at making a good shooter.

If we edit out the posts by people who are trying to be coherent, this actually looks like it makes more sense...

Apart from the fact that it's now an argument between one person. I think you may need help...

Yes.

It's more MMO than shooter. MMO's reward playtime with more powerful weapons, while FPS games do that to an extent, there's a stopping point. Not in DUST, DUST is a game where the guy with 1 hour get wrecked by the guy with 100, and the guy with 100 gets wrecked by the guy with 1,000, etc. That's stupid.

I don't play it, it had a chance, but then again I overlooked that CCP is an MMO designer, not a FPS, so they're clueless at making a good shooter.

Traditionally, it has been becomming more skilled in how you play. You are looking at it from an RPG point of view. It certainly attracts some people, but there we go. The protosuit is a big advantage over type 2 or even advanced. The bottom line is don't get behind the SP curve.

Edit: Most games you become a killing machine pretty quick. The whole most games make you terrible to start with doesn't wash with me. Things like knowing the levels are much more important in most FPS than being high lvl.

Yes, but the same thing applies to all games on some level. A max level guy in CoD/BF/Planetside/FPS-games-in-general is going to have a better shot at killing a level 1 guy with noob weapons. If everyone had access to every gun, every perk, every little upgrade at level 1, it would create an even playing field - it would also however ruin any feeling of accomplishment from leveling up, thus making the game have less "emotional" impact on the player.

Call of Duty, MAG, and BF3 all have the basic characteristics that define MMO gameplay. End of story dude. You mean RPG character building elements perhaps but not MMO. I tried to get you figure that out on your own but I guess you missed it.

Call of Duty, MAG, and BF3 all have the basic characteristics that define MMO gameplay. End of story dude. You mean RPG character building elements perhaps but not MMO. I tried to get you figure that out on your own but I guess you missed it.

I suppose the next question is why are still on the forums if you don't want to be a part of the beat test. Just to troll because if that is the case just get lost we don't need or want you here.

Go do something you actually enjoy or better something productive.

Seriously have a nice day you can leave us dusters alone now.

No, they don't. You can't act like something's there when it's not. FPS games meet a point where playtime becomes irrelevant. MMOs don't stop rewarding the guy who plays the most with an easier time against people.

Because I still hope this game will have a chance and be a good shooter, it's not looking good though because all the space miners who never played a console shooter are trying to prevent the game from becoming an actual FPS.

If you're going to try and lecture me next time don't do it over the internet and I may actually take it seriously.

Oh I'm doing it so wrong I apologise. I was under the impression more play time gave me more hp, damage and regen. But seeing as I just "don't get it" I should leave.
Right on.
Dominance was the wrong word to use. Stupidly-huge-advantage is more correct.
Maybe you are doing it wrong?

It's not a problem that you can't kill the Proto heavy. It's the fact a militia heavy with stacked SP will have the same outcome.
GEAR IS NOT THE PROBLEM IMHO
I've said as much in countless threads.
Just for you though:
A militia assault rifle with 30% damage from lvl 5 weaponry and Assault proficiency skills does more damage than a protoype one WITHOUT these skills. The gear is really well balanced. Giving someone 1/3 more damage because they play 24/7 is not a good idea. I only mention the prototype item to show that it's skills and not Proto gear that matter most. I have 2 solutions:
1.) Decrease the passive bonus.
2.) increase starting SP for new characters.
I'm not too fussed. If they keep it as it is, I'll take a week off, get my self sorted. And why not :)

Some of us aren't complaining, lol. Just stating the obvious, that there is inherent imbalance. It's the nature of the beast, with a game trying to be both MMO and FPS.

It is very visible in the beta, because the imbalance snowballs. Experienced players use guns that do more damage and have better accuracy, AND on top of that, have the SP to buff the weapon damage. Then they have armor which gives them more base shields and armor(albeit, not that much) BUT, the big thing is they get more slots to add modules for their shields etc. Then on top of that, they have skills that add even more shields and armor, AND regen their shields and armor faster.

Again, I'm not complaining...just stating reality for those that say that a newbie in militia gear can take down an experienced player in proto gear. While technically true, 95% of the time it WON'T happen, unless the newb's personal skill level at FPS is MUCH higher than the experienced player's.

Yes.

It's more MMO than shooter. MMO's reward playtime with more powerful weapons, while FPS games do that to an extent, there's a stopping point. Not in DUST, DUST is a game where the guy with 1 hour get wrecked by the guy with 100, and the guy with 100 gets wrecked by the guy with 1,000, etc. That's stupid.

I don't play it, it had a chance, but then again I overlooked that CCP is an MMO designer, not a FPS, so they're clueless at making a good shooter.

and most shooters have a limited career path.With way less diversification.Most shooters you're just a ground pounder...not a CEO of RAVEN/Valor/Sver.... whats your point.

I don't know what the hell you are talking about.

I said this game will fail because it'll be whoever grinds the most, wins the most. You then tell me something completely random.

Whoever grinds the most, will have an advantage. But that doesn't mean a corp of newer players that are extremely skilled will have no chance, it'll just mean they'll have to take on some smaller fish before they go fight a whale.