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Bones1182 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2012.07.24 13:48:00 - [61] - Quote Marwan2 wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: I have been seeing complaints recently, about Dust 514 not being a "True FPS". Let me define the acronym - First Person Shooter. Now lets elaborate. What does first person mean? Well quite simply, your viewpoint is through your characters eyes. In Dust 514 your viewpoint is exactly this. First person - proven. And to those of you who don't know what "shooter" means in relation to video games, it would be a game in which you shoot things. Be it a top-down shooter, a Third Person Shooter (TPS) or, in the case of Dust 514, a First Person Shooter. Dust has all of the things that define what a first person shooter is, so how in the hell is it not a "True FPS"? I am sick of this "QQ to much vehicle warfare, I can't take it. Dust isn't a true FPS" or "QQ people are using remote explosives as grenades, I hate it. Dust isn't a true FPS". I have a question for you people, have you ever, possibly, just maybe, played anything in the Battlefield franchise? What are those big, armored vessels that people tend to blow each other up with? Or what about those things with the big spinning blades that people fly around in? Or the things with jet engines on the back? What are those little packets that people through on the ground and then trigger as you step over them, causing you to die oh-so-horribly? There is a game called PlanetSide, vehicles are a big part of that one too. How else are you going to travel around the continents? I'm sure you don't want to do it on foot. My point is that vehicle warfare is not new in Dust 514, it does not take away from the experience. Throwing remote explosives around as grenades is not new in Dust 514, may it be a little bit over done, it is not new. In fact, can't you even do that in CoD? I know there are players coming from that crowd. It isn't a problem of method in Dust, it is however a problem of to much inventory. If you equip grenades, you get 3. I've read that Logi's can equip 15 RE's. That is pretty serious overkill. Anyway, I'm done ranting. All this QQ'ing is just pissing me off, especially with this ******** statement being thrown around. Edit: I am aware of why people are saying this, I'm just really bothered by the ignorance of the community that has gathered in this beta. I don't know why these people wouldn't think this is an FPS, but maybe what they are saying is that the shooting and movement doesn't feel like a FPS, e.g. it's too slow, clunky, hit detection is subpar, etc. Thoughts? Quite right but crying saying that the game will fail is ignorant we know it needs work, CCP knows it needs work. Report the problem move on test something else. Give them time to fix it and remember that they have to go through Sony, which is new for them.
Deskalkulos Ildigan CrimeWave Syndicate 115	Posted - 2012.07.24 13:50:00 - [62] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: CoD does = good FPS. It's really stupid to say otherwise. You may not like it, but it IS the benchmark. Cod 2 was trash compared to CS, CoD4 was the first time on console people wanted to play realistic CS style FPS. I bought a ps3 because of it. MW2 was te one with the nuke of awesomeness. Easy in pubs, impossible to get in a clan match. The real problem was that MW3 was still the same old. Nothing new. Dust hasn't dropped anything new into the game play YET (don't see much comming though) Oh and black ops is the only game since diehard trilogy on ps1 where you can do just about everything, with or without your buds. Not the best FPS, but dead ops took me back to classic top down shooters. The huge difference comes outside of matches. That just doesn't interest 9/10 people. The ones who it DOES interest will be able to manage stuff for the guys who aren't interested, leaving them free to play their great FPS. If Black ops feels more fun, I'll play that and leave new Eden for those who want to grind their face against a techtanium cheese grater. The problem is that "standard" FPS boils down to 2 games. Unreal/Quake or Counterstrike. We currently have the arcade gameplay of old unreal/quake games, but with worse "feel." I just think the fact it's not a "traditional FPS" (it is though) is a REALLY bad reason to forgive glaring errors. cough spawn camping for 3 builds okay my fault for messing up mw2 with mw. . . about the novelties. . . i admit that they are currently quite short on them, except f2p console-shooter model, upcoming inclusion into new eden economy, upcoming pc to ps3 attacks vice versa, upcoming (semi) randomly generated maps, vehicle healing while driving, loosing equipment permanently adding to a metagameish management feel, wearable swarm launchers (well its like ut rocket launcher 2.0)
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 13:53:00 - [63] - Quote Bones, real life an the game play on Dust couldn't be further apart. That's my point. An in superhero games like this, tactics and strategy take a back seat to gunplay. Here's the really brief reason. I run across the open road. IRL I am dead as soon as I get half way. In dust I sit and regen my whole health back in about 10 seconds and carry on. I don't really have much of a problem with it. I'll happily railgun face. Less strategy and tactics for me to worry about.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 153	Posted - 2012.07.24 13:53:00 - [64] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: They are strategies. Not tactics. None of them will save you in a gun fight. And they are bad strategies because they don't involve capping or defending letters. Gun game > tactics in dust. Is this what everyone wants. Thanks for telling me I don't get the game too. You are one of the players who thinks killing and KDR is irrelevant I'll bet. Actually, tactics is small scale. Usually suited to the battlefield. Strategy is large-scale, i.e. countries and continents. That's why C&C, the Total Wars, Civ etc are strategy games, not tactical. Sadly, you're also wrong throughout the post. I've often engaged someone, run around a corner, run around behind them, and killed them, even if they were on the verge of killing me. I've also seen a teammate in a gunfight with a heavy with an AR, I've flanked (as they were both in cover) and killed the heavy, saving my teammate. I've seen games won and lost whether point C was held or captured in the first five minutes of the game. If the attackers get point C and both CRU's near there, they've got a very strong position and a tactical advantage, in that they can spawn either side of A or B and easily flank the defenders. If they lose C, they can spawn at a CRU and recap. I'm honestly surprised that I have to spell this out. I've seen people with good gun games and a good KDR lose because point C was captured very quickly, and I've seen people with a horrible KDR win because they focussed on capping. And no, I don't think KDR is irrelevant. I think KDR isn't indicative of success, or of contribution to the team. It helps, but someone with a KDR of 20 may not be as helpful to the team as a person with a KDR of 0.1, who capped A, B and C, dropped an uplink, and used nanohives. For example, if I'm attacking, I get in a dropship and drop an uplink on top of the building at C. I cap C, and try to cap the CRU near there. If I die, I respawn as forge and blow the CRU up. Why? Because the enemy can take it and spawn a LOT closer to C. It's a tactical advantage that we don't need to let them have, especially as we have an uplink AND an objective to spawn at. It's all about tactical advantages.
KryptixX Imperfects Negative-Feedback 321	Posted - 2012.07.24 13:56:00 - [65] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: They are strategies. Not tactics. None of them will save you in a gun fight. And they are bad strategies because they don't involve capping or defending letters. Gun game > tactics in dust. Is this what everyone wants. Thanks for telling me I don't get the game too. You are one of the players who thinks killing and KDR is irrelevant I'll bet. so what if your 1 squad of above average gun-gamers defending an objective, and say 2 squads roll up or a squad and an upped tank. do you think your really gonna win that gun-game 10/10? thats a tactic/strategy being used, and if you were to call in for back up from another squad, that would also be a tactic. theres gonna have to be a happy medium between shooting skills and general tactics
Bones1182 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2012.07.24 13:56:00 - [66] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: They are strategies. Not tactics. None of them will save you in a gun fight. And they are bad strategies because they don't involve capping or defending letters. Gun game > tactics in dust. Is this what everyone wants. Thanks for telling me I don't get the game too. You are one of the players who thinks killing and KDR is irrelevant I'll bet. I suppose you have some experience that would negate the actual definition of tactics then. I will repeat this for you I spent 4.5 years in U.S. Army I have fairly extensive training in military tactics and strategy. Tell me again why taking cover and returning fire is not a tactic. Or maybe how flanking isn't a tactic either because you lost me especially since a tactic is something you use to gain an advantage over your enemy. A strategy often involves using multiple tactics over period of time.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 13:59:00 - [67] - Quote Scale isn't anything to do with strategy or tactics. Go check the actual difference. If you feel the game is tactical then good for you. But it's really not very.
Bones1182 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2012.07.24 14:01:00 - [68] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Bones, real life an the game play on Dust couldn't be further apart. That's my point. An in superhero games like this, tactics and strategy take a back seat to gunplay. Here's the really brief reason. I run across the open road. IRL I am dead as soon as I get half way. In dust I sit and regen my whole health back in about 10 seconds and carry on. I don't really have much of a problem with it. I'll happily railgun face. Less strategy and tactics for me to worry about. Thank you for demonstrating a tactic wait recover health/stamina run across open area. The only difference is in real life your team lays down suppressive fire. But guess what your squad leader ordered you to cross that s treet you have to cross that street. You might die but that is a soldiers job to kill and maybe die for your country.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 153	Posted - 2012.07.24 14:08:00 - [69] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Scale isn't anything to do with strategy or tactics. Go check the actual difference. If you feel the game is tactical then good for you. But it's really not very. Actually, yes, it is. If it wasn't, all I'd need to do was run forward, have a good gun game, and then I'd win. But, sadly, if I did that, I'd die, from all the people ambushing and sniping me. The strategy in the skirmish map? Hold the letters. The tactics behind them? Infiltrate, flank, ambush, whatever. Flanking a position is on a much smaller scale than holding the point in the long run, don't you think? This game is about as tactical as Battlefield, or at least will be. It will also be more strategical, seeing as you will be able to hold territory, defend and launch attacks.
KryptixX Imperfects Negative-Feedback 321	Posted - 2012.07.24 14:12:00 - [70] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Scale isn't anything to do with strategy or tactics. Go check the actual difference. If you feel the game is tactical then good for you. But it's really not very. if your were talking about scale by planetside terms, where the bigger zerg wins, then yes i dont really think that is a tactic either. but when you have the same player count scale cant be used as an excuse when you get rolled on when defending. if this game doesnt take in-game strategy what shooter does?

Dalton Smithe OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 45	Posted - 2012.07.24 14:26:00 - [71] - Quote W0olley wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: W0olley wrote: He made a statement about what people are looking for not an opinion. And the statement he made is wrong. People aren't looking for another CoD like game, the only people I see bringing up CoD in the first place are people trying to defend Dust in it's lack of decent fundamentals that should be implemented in all FPS's. CoD isn't the first FPS out there but it got popular because it does the fundamentals and it does them really well. The guy clearly doesn't understand FPS's if he automatically associates every compliant with CoD even when nobody has mentioned CoD. He made a statement and he clearly doesn't understand what people are talking about and thus he is wrong. Oh I see what you're saying. And in that case, he is quite right. I have seen several posts that say "nerf vehicles, this is an FPS not a tank game" or "lets see more small areas where you can't get vehicles, they shouldn't be the focus of an FPS" or "lets get rid of vehicles, they don't belong in an FPS". And, what is the most popular FPS right now that doesn't offer vehicle warfare..? You guessed it, CoD. CoD does have vehicles they are just in form of killstreaks and not readily available anytime you want them. And the majority of FPS's don't allow for vehicles to be used. And when they are they aren't the end all be all of the game, They are used as tools to get to an ultimate goal but are not the rulers of a battlefield which at this time vehicles are in Dust which doesn't bring fun FPS gameplay. Just because vehicle play is not allowed in a lot of FPS games, it doesn't necessarily mean they don't belong in them. Do I get irritated when someone driving a tank with a good fit runs the map and doesn't die? Hell yes. Do I think CCP should remove vehicles from maps or nerf them? Hell no. Vehicle combat was always going to be an integral part of Dust, this is combat on a planetary scale, not just a little sector of a city. I have played other FPS games and finally someone got it right.
Dalton Smithe OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 45	Posted - 2012.07.24 14:35:00 - [72] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Scale isn't anything to do with strategy or tactics. Go check the actual difference. If you feel the game is tactical then good for you. But it's really not very. tac-+ti-+calGÇé GÇé[tak-ti-kuhl] Show IPA adjective 1. of or pertaining to tactics, especially military or naval tactics. tac-+ticsGÇé GÇé[tak-tiks] Show IPA noun 1. ( usually used with a singular verb ) the art or science of disposing military or naval forces for battle and maneuvering them in battle. strat-+e-+gyGÇé GÇé[strat-i-jee] Show IPA noun, plural strat-+e-+gies. 1. Also, strategics. the science or art of combining and employing the means of war in planning and directing large military movements and operations. If you think scale has nothing to do with Strategy or Tactics, good for you, but your still wrong....
Templar Two Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 459	Posted - 2012.07.24 15:09:00 - [73] - Quote Is Shooting in First Person enough to qualify Dust 514 as a FPS? YES. Is it enough to make it a quality FPS? NO. Now Dust gives a lot of emphasis to Character Building, and we have already FPS/shooters that have this BUT what is really important is how much this RPG elements interfere with the FPS mechanics. Each VG ask you to apply your skills as a player in a specific task and what is that task in FPS? Shooting. In FPS you are measured on the quality of you shooting which is determined by 2 things: your reflexes & thinking! In classic RPG reflexes are important but not as important as in FPS or fighting games or hack & slash. Action RPG like Demon/Dark Souls give more importance to your reflexes but still without a good character build (gear & in-game skills) you can't truly compete BUT it's intended that way because it's a RPG and there's nothing wrong in it because it's feasible to do that. Now, the music changes for a FPS because in FPS reflexes are historically 95% of the experience and so you can't say to the FPS player "you need the right gear & in-game skills"...that works for RPG but not for FPS. Purist of FPS won't like the emphasis CCP is giving to RPG elements simply because it's not what FPS player game for! CCP has no experience whatsoever in FPS but plenty in RPG so they are doing what they do best but is it right thing for a FPS MMO? Shouldn't they change this before it's too late as many here say? Also I would like to say that COD does what it does perfectly, same for BF, Halo & Killzone. You don't have to like them (I don't like COD because it's too arcade for my taste) but saying that those franchises don't excel it's a lie! Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: Don't worry, the game is a long way from finished. This isn't like the BF3 beta or the StarHawk beta where we are seeing what is really just a demo, not really a beta at all. I'm guessing that we are still 6 months to a year from release, CCP has plenty of time to make changes. I really am looking forward to how the different player backgrounds affect the team play upon the final release, with the influx of players curious what CCP has to offer. I am sorry to disappoint you but Dust 514 is not 12 months from it's release since it's confirmed to be a 2012 title. Now we don't even know if it is scheduled for December 2012 so NOBODY can say we have still 6 months left for it to be better. Also consider that Dust 514 has been in development for a lot of time and that there is always a "non return point" so many things CAN'T be changed!
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.24 15:18:00 - [74] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Scale isn't anything to do with strategy or tactics. Go check the actual difference. If you feel the game is tactical then good for you. But it's really not very. I think you might have tactics and strategy mixed up but that's a side issue. I think you're not seeing a lot of tactical play in the BETA because of the lack of grouping/Mics. When I'm in coms with people we actually play pretty tactical with flanking, bait, RE traps, AV and logi heal/replenishment. In the current pub setting, where no one talks to each other and you have no control over what suit and spec everyone is, you're not going to see much in the way of tactics other than run and shoot. I really hope CCP allows grouping for the August build. There is no reason not to have it in at this point.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.24 15:27:00 - [75] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: W0olley wrote: He made a statement about what people are looking for not an opinion. And the statement he made is wrong. People aren't looking for another CoD like game, the only people I see bringing up CoD in the first place are people trying to defend Dust in it's lack of decent fundamentals that should be implemented in all FPS's. CoD isn't the first FPS out there but it got popular because it does the fundamentals and it does them really well. The guy clearly doesn't understand FPS's if he automatically associates every compliant with CoD even when nobody has mentioned CoD. He made a statement and he clearly doesn't understand what people are talking about and thus he is wrong. Oh I see what you're saying. And in that case, he is quite right. I have seen several posts that say "nerf vehicles, this is an FPS not a tank game" or "lets see more small areas where you can't get vehicles, they shouldn't be the focus of an FPS" or "lets get rid of vehicles, they don't belong in an FPS". And, what is the most popular FPS right now that doesn't offer vehicle warfare..? You guessed it, CoD. I'm sorry but I have to take issue with this. I've never played multiplayer COD but I certainly want more maps with less emphasis on vehicles. I want it so much I've even made threads about it. It's not because I can't kill vehicles (trust me, I can and do) or because I'm some elitist Gun-game snob (my K/D ratio is barely 2.5 in most games). I want more indoor and narrow-street maps because if vehicles remain dominant, all you're going to see are Tanks and anti-tank builds. Same goes for dropships. There needs to be some maps where vehicles are important but there also needs to be maps where infantry is more important. Let certain maps contain elements of both. This isn't world of Tanks and Dropships, but it's not COD or CS either.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 15:56:00 - [76] - Quote Strategy - Tactic difference in military usage In military usage, a distinction is made between strategy and tactics. Strategy is the utilization, during both peace and war, of all of a nation's forces, through large-scale, long-range planning and development, to ensure security or victory. Tactics is the military science that deals with securing objectives set by strategy, especially the technique of deploying and directing troops, ships, and aircraft in effective maneuvers against an enemy. Quoted from somewhere on the interwebz. Scale is not THE difference. Usually yes, strategies are larger in scale but that is not the difference. I'm glad a few people have carried on with the topic instead of telling me I'm wrong. I was wrong though the game does have tactics, and strategy, just none compared to proper tactical FPS like CS. @Templar Give up man, the FPS community left 2 weeks into this build. There's only 20 or so of us left. @Garr Indoor maps will be brilliant :) I know the current map sucks. I miss crater lake :(
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 153	Posted - 2012.07.24 16:13:00 - [77] - Quote Templar Two wrote: CCP has no experience whatsoever in FPS but plenty in RPG so they are doing what they do best but is it right thing for a FPS MMO? Shouldn't they change this before it's too late as many here say? You made a few assumptions in your post. Let's list a few of them. 1: All FPS's require good reflexes and aim. 2: All FPS's provide level playing fields, and the only way to differentiate between players is skill. 3: Your opinions are that of a FPS "purist". Now, let's examine them. 1. Yes, true, to a certain degree. However, there are exceptions (to some degree). For example, TF2. You don't particularly need good reflexes as a heavy fighting a scout, or a sniper at short range. 2. Erm, no. Counterstrike gives you the ability to buy armor. That effectively gives you twice the hp. True, if you don't have decent reflexes and aim, then it won't help much, but on two players of the same ability, the armor will help. Let's apply that to COD too. As you level up, you get better weapons and killstreaks, enabling you to do more damage, more accurately, and in a shorter time frame. I haven't particularly played the new BF's, so I can't comment on them. 3. You can't apply your opinion to a group of people and claim it's their's without backing of said people, or even proving that you are a part of them. It would be like me going up to, say, Christopher Nolan and saying everyone hates his new film. Why? Because I'm applying my opinion to a group of people who can't have their say. It's a simple logical fallacy and your point that CCP must change it to suit the "hardcore fps fans" is simply your opinion, not everyone else's. Also, CCP does have people with experience working on DUST. They have people who used to work for DICE on the project, so they're not as clueless as you think. Even if they were, they've done a damn good job, haven't they?
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 153	Posted - 2012.07.24 16:19:00 - [78] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Scale is not THE difference. Usually yes, strategies are larger in scale but that is not the difference. I'm glad a few people have carried on with the topic instead of telling me I'm wrong. I was wrong though the game does have tactics, and strategy, just none compared to proper tactical FPS like CS. Tactical, yes, sure. I'm in the beta for CS:GO and that's definitely very tactical compared to DUST. For example, running down a corridor trying to find the enemy, looking both ways down a corridor before going down it, throwing a flashbang then moving forward is very tactical compared to dropping an uplink so that your teammates can spawn somewhere unexpected and ambush the enemy. Please, get your head out of your arse. CS isn't tactical compared to DUST or Battlefield, or even COD. At least in COD you have a minimap and you know where the enemy is. CS is very much your classic aim-and-shoot, reflex-dependent shooter. You can't guess where the enemy is and flank them, unlike in COD or DUST. Instead, you run around aimlessly until you find someone then shoot them.
W0olley Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 242	Posted - 2012.07.24 16:28:00 - [79] - Quote Dalton Smithe wrote: Just because vehicle play is not allowed in a lot of FPS games, it doesn't necessarily mean they don't belong in them. Do I get irritated when someone driving a tank with a good fit runs the map and doesn't die? Hell yes. Do I think CCP should remove vehicles from maps or nerf them? Hell no. Vehicle combat was always going to be an integral part of Dust, this is combat on a planetary scale, not just a little sector of a city. I have played other FPS games and finally someone got it right. Did I ever say the game shouldn't have vehicles? I love how people are on here reply to things people never say to help to try and validate their poor arguments on certain issues. But everyone just keep ignoring the fact that Dust is missing the fundamentals of a good FPS. These things have nothing to do with CoD or even vehicles at all really.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 16:31:00 - [80] - Quote LoL, you must get some horrible scores in CS. Read your last sentence and tell me how I can take you seriously. Mini maps REDUCE the amount of tactics as they essentially counter player movement. Hence why games hardcore modes don't have minimaps. I don't suggest removing the map from Dust. I rather like having my head up my own arse. Means my face can get a tan too.

Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 153	Posted - 2012.07.24 16:38:00 - [81] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: LoL, you must get some horrible scores in CS. Read your last sentence and tell me how I can take you seriously. Mini maps REDUCE the amount of tactics as they essentially counter player movement. Hence why games hardcore modes don't have minimaps. I don't suggest removing the map from Dust. I rather like having my head up my own arse. Means my face can get a tan too. Yeah, it's true that I get some horrible scores in CS:GO, but then again, I've never really played it that much at once. I think I have around 30-40 hours on it total. Then there are some games when I'm just on fire... I did exaggerate that part around running around aimlessly though :) I disagree with the point about mini-maps, though, especially (as in DUST and COD) they don't show where the enemy is unless you either a, see them, b, get shot at, or c, a friendly sees them. It encourages team play, and helps speed up the killing process. I've had a few games on CS where I've run around for five minutes, there being only one person on each team left, not knowing where the other is. It discourages slow and boring gameplay. Which, in turn, promotes tactics.
Templar Two Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 459	Posted - 2012.07.24 16:54:00 - [82] - Quote @Laheon Even Killzone, or Crysis, or Halo, or Transformers, or PlanetSide have ways to give you more HP/armor but the TTK is made so that it doesn't save you at all: here the TTK so high that more HP/armor really saves you + headshots are not OHK, not even have are 2x! Soldiers in transformers have twice the HP of Scouts (just like here) but TTK is better, headshots are OHK, melee is better. Also FPS nowadays gives you more gear that has already tradeoffs so nothing you get is better because it's already balanced by the developer. I can get a SMG that has higher fire rate but lower damage and so the tradeoff compensate for the bonus: blance not better gear. Borderlands have better gear because it's a FPS RPG...Dust has RPG gear as well but it's competitive FPS. Quote: Also, CCP does have people with experience working on DUST. They have people who used to work for DICE on the project, so they're not as clueless as you think. Even if they were, they've done a damn good job, haven't they? From my my experience in FPS they haven't!
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 16:58:00 - [83] - Quote You know where he is. He's either watching A or B. If he's attacking, you should be watching A or B. CS is the only game where tents are provided free of charge :) Oh and minimap removes teamwork. You start to use the minimap a lot instead of communicating a lot. Trust me, no minimap means you are less likely to go chasing kills. If you do you leave the objective. That's also known as losing on CS :) @Templar While I'm not a huge fan of DICE, they know what they are doing. Experienced guys are exactly what CCP need. I never really liked battlefield because of the maps & movement. But if anyone knows how to make the best sounds, and make guns feel like guns, DICE are #1.
Mike Gunnzito 111	Posted - 2012.07.24 17:07:00 - [84] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: Flame Highsea wrote: wow.. I could not find a single comment on Kz3 :D It's Warzone and Operations take's alot planning and tactical leadership when matches done with proper clan :) Former Kz players will do some damage in future Dust battlefields Dust is fun.. hope communication would work better tho.. Don't worry, the game is a long way from finished. This isn't like the BF3 beta or the StarHawk beta where we are seeing what is really just a demo, not really a beta at all. I'm guessing that we are still 6 months to a year from release, CCP has plenty of time to make changes. I really am looking forward to how the different player backgrounds affect the team play upon the final release, with the influx of players curious what CCP has to offer. Not gonna bother with any of the posts for or against any of the arguments on here...other than this. You're using the "beta excuse" .... not gonna harp on it, just want to inform you to not hold your breath. You say CCP has 6months to a year to "finish" the game. FYI: CCP has stated SEVERAL times, that Dust will be a 2012 release. This gives them 5months AT MOST! They still have quite a bit of work to do, to "finish" the game, and less than 5months to do it. (in regards to weapon and vehicle balancing, hit detection, module/equipment implementation, spawn issues, etc etc)
Simon Havoc ZionTCD Legacy Rising 26	Posted - 2012.07.24 17:09:00 - [85] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: Arcushek Dion wrote: Basically what they are saying when they say it's not a true fps is really "it's not a CoD clone" or "It's not an Arcade Shooter". Which IMO is great because those types of shooters are terrible. Flashy....but terrible. CoD has its moments, but it's a totally different style of game. Sure it's in the FPS umbrella, but its "jump in, shoot, jump out" and then do it all again. It has no lasting value. If I want to play a quick 15 minute match before work, maybe I'd play a quick game of Headquarters or something. But Dust is much more in-depth, and the games will probably end up being a bit longer than 15 minutes in some cases. You forgot flop like a dead fish and shoot people in the head move.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 17:14:00 - [86] - Quote Pffft get some skill. It's more fun to rugby tackle someone with a knife ;)
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 153	Posted - 2012.07.24 17:58:00 - [87] - Quote @Templar - I'll give you a few examples of OP guns in modern FPS's. CS: AK-47, AWP. The AK is the best AR in the game, so much so that CT's will drop whatever weapon they have to pick one up. It does the most dps, and on the small maps that CS has, DPS matters. COD: Dual wield P90's. Need I say more? Most maps on COD (MW and MW2 at least) have a few areas where it's CQC. With this, accuracy is basically nullified. Dual wield F90's at CQC... You're dead even before you know they're there. Don't know too much about KZ or Planetside. In the end, most FPS's out there give an advantage to those who have been playing longer, whether it's killstreaks, better weapons, etc. The fact that I can take a few bullets wearing a heavily armored and shielded suit, run away, and come back with full shields (Halo anyone?) makes sense lore-wise and gameplay wise. The fact that in DUST you can kill someone wearing the most expensive infantry gear, while you're wearing free gear, inherently means that you have a tactical advantage. He has to keep restocking his suit with isk, while you don't. You kill him, you level up quicker, and he loses out. There's an inherent disadvantage to wearing the best stuff, which people need to take into account before using it. It's about balancing risk rather than just steamrolling the opponents. @Tony - I try to camp, but sometimes they just come out of nowhere and headshot me. My proudest moment on CS:GO was headshotting someone with the basic sniper rifle just after I'd been flashbanged. No scoped, fired a shot off more in hope than anything else. But yeah, I still think DUST is a lot more tactical than CS.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 19:01:00 - [88] - Quote @Larheon Did you play the original 1.3 -1.6? AK was always the weapon of choice. Or M4. Or AWP. The AWP isn't over powered. It can't be over powered. Unless it 1 shots tanks too. Can you divulge if your health regens, like how they ruined Rainbow Six when they released Vegas? If they have an NDA in effect don't worry about it. I think once grouping is implemented we'll see more strategies appear. This will be when the MAG crews clear up. And EvE based corps will be finding tactics to stop us. I have to say I don't want a scifi CS, but it is the best example of gunplay, strategy and tactics of any FPS.
Templar Two Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 459	Posted - 2012.07.24 20:14:00 - [89] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: @Templar While I'm not a huge fan of DICE, they know what they are doing. Experienced guys are exactly what CCP need. I never really liked battlefield because of the maps & movement. But if anyone knows how to make the best sounds, and make guns feel like guns, DICE are #1. I thought the same thing years ago when I learned about it but the state of this build is depressing! If ex Dice are working on it why FPS mechanics (controls, animation, camera, sounds) are the worst thing in Dust 514? For the record this is me speaking, thinking, about Dust 514 before the beta: This is me now:
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 781	Posted - 2012.07.24 20:18:00 - [90] - Quote Templar Two wrote: Tony Calif wrote: @Templar While I'm not a huge fan of DICE, they know what they are doing. Experienced guys are exactly what CCP need. I never really liked battlefield because of the maps & movement. But if anyone knows how to make the best sounds, and make guns feel like guns, DICE are #1. I thought the same thing years ago when I learned about it but the state of this build is depressing! If ex Dice are working on it why FPS mechanics (controls, animation, camera, sounds) are the worst thing in Dust 514? Now this is me speaking, thinking, about Dust 514 before the beta: This is me now: Sounds like its the reason they are working for CCP now and not DICE for BF4....



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