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Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2012.07.24 07:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
DUST fits the definition of FPS in the strict sense of what FPS means.
It's not a TYPICAL game in the genre though, which throws some people off. Also, it's a beta, so many elements aren't as polished as in most current-gen FPS games. As a result of these problems (and the current builds (probably deliberate) heavy focus on vehicles, people are complaining.
+1 to OP for a well-thought-out thread topic. I've posted similar as side-comments in a few threads. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.24 23:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:Tony Calif wrote:EVICER wrote:Septem Mortuus wrote:@Veigar,
You missed a memo.
You have to substitute "MAG 2.0" for "True FPS" and you'll pretty much see the true complaint that lot have.
Same people, same complaints.
Wrong .... MAG had vehicles Vehicle skills, repair skills, assets, lots of things that aren't in "pure" FPS games. There are SO many mag players who were repair/medic/AV, I can't wait to see grouping in action. @Larheon AWP was just a typo. They misspelled WIN. What the hell is your definition of a "pure" FPS game? MAG was the "purest" FPS we had til Dust came around (albeit Dust is incomplete and the bigger features aren't there). MAG was a military simulator, doesn't get more pure than that if you ask me.
Pure FPS means you're in first-person ALL the time, and the ONLY objective is to shoot things.
So... Doom isn't a pure FPS either, because of the key-hunting expeditions. So... looking at multiplayer, I don't think we even HAVE a first-person shooter that can be called "pure" legitimately in the current generation. Battlefield gives you vehicles, and with those vehicles you leave your first-person perspective. It also gives objectives other than "shoot ALL the things" so it's not even sticking to that aspect in a "pure" sense.
Military Sim Gëá Pure FPS |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.24 23:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bones1182 wrote:Well by that logic Wolfenstein 3D wasn't a pure FPS either and it was the first at least the first major title. Also quake wasn't maybe unreal but I don't have experience in that series.
By the logic I gave, I can think of a few pure FPS games. Quake 3: Arena, the Unreal Tournament series, and an older game called XS, which I never played outside the demo, but it was awesome for its time.
My point was that MAG is further from pure FPS than some of those other examples, but that doesn't make it less a part of the genre. Just like DUST's novelties don't make it less a part of the genre.
People argued over whether to slot the original Deus Ex into the FPS genre at first, too. And have you heard of a game called Strife? It was a Doom Engine RPG/FPS, but because of the strength of the FPS elements, its RPG title got ignored by a lot of people.
Really, it doesn't matter.
The game isn't MMOFPS anyway.
It's an economic/financial/political simulator MMO that uses FPS and RPG minigames to resolve wars which are mostly driven, won and lost by the economic and political elements to the game anyway. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.25 04:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:MUDMASTEI2 wrote:I read the first 7 sentences and stopped, because I already think you're an idiot.
DUST isn't a shooter. It's playtime = dominance and that's MMO gayshit. lol. I have 3.5m SP total, and it's spread over CQC, AR, and AV skills. I only have 2 advanced items in my inventory. I consistently beat players with upwards of 10m SP with full protosuits. Playtime does not equal winning, player skill does. You just aren't using the tools you are provided properly.
And I have 4.1mil and have lost count of how many times I've helped my team take down a Sagaris while I'm only using Militia gear. I've landed the finishing blow on several Suryas with a Militia SL, and have soloed multiple Madrugars and other low-tier HAVs. With LAVs and dropships, I can even take on the Proto models solo with all-Militia fits and have a reasonable expectation for success.
When I'm using GOOD gear (a rarity), I can do a LOT of damage... or a lot of healing, depending on which loadout I'm using. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.25 05:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:It makes me wonder what these players are doing wrong.. So many of us are doing fine with militia/standard/advanced gear, and so many others are saying "If you don't have full proto, you lose".
I definitely feel like I'm at a distadvantage using only my Militia fittings, but the point is that, while I'm not as capable without the good gear, I'm still USEFUL. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.26 03:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
MUDMASTEI2 wrote:MUDMASTEI2 wrote:MUDMASTEI2 wrote:DUST isn't a shooter. It's playtime = dominance and that's MMO gayshit. You're trying to tell me that playtime = dominance? . . . Really? This place hit a new low with this post. Yes. It's more MMO than shooter. MMO's reward playtime with more powerful weapons, while FPS games do that to an extent, there's a stopping point. Not in DUST, DUST is a game where the guy with 1 hour get wrecked by the guy with 100, and the guy with 100 gets wrecked by the guy with 1,000, etc. That's stupid. I don't play it, it had a chance, but then again I overlooked that CCP is an MMO designer, not a FPS, so they're clueless at making a good shooter.
If we edit out the posts by people who are trying to be coherent, this actually looks like it makes more sense...
Apart from the fact that it's now an argument between one person. I think you may need help... |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.26 06:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bones1182 wrote:Call of Duty, MAG, and BF3 all have the basic characteristics that define MMO gameplay. End of story dude. You mean RPG character building elements perhaps but not MMO. I tried to get you figure that out on your own but I guess you missed it.
No. CoD, BF3 and MAG are all standard FPS games. They DON'T have large enough simultaneous player-counts to be MMO. People aren't fighting in the same extended battlefield like we will be in DUST. Even if they keep DUST to 12 vs. 12, it will be more MMO than MAG ever was. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.26 07:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
MUDMASTEI2 wrote:No, they don't. You can't act like something's there when it's not. FPS games meet a point where playtime becomes irrelevant. MMOs don't stop rewarding the guy who plays the most with an easier time against people.
Because I still hope this game will have a chance and be a good shooter, it's not looking good though because all the space miners who never played a console shooter are trying to prevent the game from becoming an actual FPS.
If you're going to try and lecture me next time don't do it over the internet and I may actually take it seriously.
You're correct saying no they don't, but your logic for why is incorrect.
MMOs have a point where you've maxed out, which is different depending which game you're looking at.
In WoW and its copycats, when you reach the level cap, and finish training the relevant skills for your level, there's nothing left to give you an advantage over someone else who's done the same. In DC Universe Online, you reach a point where the extra skill points you earn only allow you more variation in how you approach battles, rather than giving you a direct advantage. In most FPS games, you tend to hit that limit quickly, then it becomes more about who is best with the tools at their disposal. In most MMO games, there's a longer build-up, usually incorporating a learning curve as you get introduced to new things and learn how they work, and as you scale up you become more powerful and learn more about the game mechanics. DUST seems like it's striking a different balance from what most FPS games use. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.08.01 01:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
You can get most of the way up the important passives (at least +15 to 20% each for weapon damage, armour HP and shield regen) and a few steps on your way into whatever specialist gear you want to focus on with just the starting SP and a few matches.
At least, with the starting SP my girlfriend had last weekend, it was. |
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