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"Dust is not a True FPS"

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Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 10:51:00 - [1] - Quote This thread is so funny. Here's some facts CoD matters, bf3/4 matter and MoH matter. They are the "competition" something EvE hasn't ever had. Welcome to the FPS market. Keep slating CoD and the kill streaks you were too bad to either get or counter. I really find this whole argument funny.Dust COULD be almost as good. No 60frames but there we go. Dust is an FPS. It just it's kinda sucky at the moment spray and pray game currently takes almost 0 skill. It's like unreal. Yeah the first one. It's not tactical or strategic yet. I don't see how it can be with current mechanics (strafe > aim, regen > all, Dropship > infantry, HAV > infantry, Assault > infantry) Other FPS titles aren't just successful because of the name. CoD4 rebuilt the brand an was the finest FPS of our day (yeah it's better than CS if only because it's updated). What's wrong with wanting Dust to be a really good FPS, which it currently falls well short of (beta blah blah beta)
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 12:03:00 - [2] - Quote CoD does = good FPS. It's really stupid to say otherwise. You may not like it, but it IS the benchmark. Cod 2 was trash compared to CS, CoD4 was the first time on console people wanted to play realistic CS style FPS. I bought a ps3 because of it. MW2 was te one with the nuke of awesomeness. Easy in pubs, impossible to get in a clan match. The real problem was that MW3 was still the same old. Nothing new. Dust hasn't dropped anything new into the game play YET (don't see much comming though) Oh and black ops is the only game since diehard trilogy on ps1 where you can do just about everything, with or without your buds. Not the best FPS, but dead ops took me back to classic top down shooters. The huge difference comes outside of matches. That just doesn't interest 9/10 people. The ones who it DOES interest will be able to manage stuff for the guys who aren't interested, leaving them free to play their great FPS. If Black ops feels more fun, I'll play that and leave new Eden for those who want to grind their face against a techtanium cheese grater. The problem is that "standard" FPS boils down to 2 games. Unreal/Quake or Counterstrike. We currently have the arcade gameplay of old unreal/quake games, but with worse "feel." I just think the fact it's not a "traditional FPS" (it is though) is a REALLY bad reason to forgive glaring errors. cough spawn camping for 3 builds
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 12:13:00 - [3] - Quote And I feel some people want the game to be garbage. I DO want another CoD. But I'm going to get that anyway. I want Dust to be different I agree, but it's the fact what we have now, you can take your tactics and your strategy an stuff ten in your blowhole. Dust is ALL about KDR. Tactics and strategies don't matter when the killers turn up. *look at all the useless snipers thinkin they're playing Counterstrike and not quake* Btw MAG is on 2.12. MAG 2 was released as a patch, people just didn't realise. They still don't.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 12:41:00 - [4] - Quote Yeah it's making assumptions. Assumptions like the basic speed-health-damage mix is much closer to Quake or Unreal than any tactical shooter. The reasons are obvious. In CS you just didn't go into the open. Rather similar to CoD or BF when they are played seriously (clan battles, NOT pubs). Unreal you just dance about and railgun face. Which sounds like our current gameplay, and which involves more tactics/strategy? I'm not saying it's a bad thing in itself. Just got no interest in playing what essentially on a clan war will be a pub game of CoD domination with vehicles. I'm undecided atleast until next build. CCP have improved things, remember the black screens at the start of this build? All the loadouts being "invalid"? But they don't fix the spawns... priorities are all wrong ;)
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 12:59:00 - [5] - Quote Actually, strategy and tactics are limited to off the battlefield IMHO.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 13:41:00 - [6] - Quote They are strategies. Not tactics. None of them will save you in a gun fight. And they are bad strategies because they don't involve capping or defending letters. Gun game > tactics in dust. Is this what everyone wants. Thanks for telling me I don't get the game too. You are one of the players who thinks killing and KDR is irrelevant I'll bet.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 13:53:00 - [7] - Quote Bones, real life an the game play on Dust couldn't be further apart. That's my point. An in superhero games like this, tactics and strategy take a back seat to gunplay. Here's the really brief reason. I run across the open road. IRL I am dead as soon as I get half way. In dust I sit and regen my whole health back in about 10 seconds and carry on. I don't really have much of a problem with it. I'll happily railgun face. Less strategy and tactics for me to worry about.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 13:59:00 - [8] - Quote Scale isn't anything to do with strategy or tactics. Go check the actual difference. If you feel the game is tactical then good for you. But it's really not very.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 15:56:00 - [9] - Quote Strategy - Tactic difference in military usage In military usage, a distinction is made between strategy and tactics. Strategy is the utilization, during both peace and war, of all of a nation's forces, through large-scale, long-range planning and development, to ensure security or victory. Tactics is the military science that deals with securing objectives set by strategy, especially the technique of deploying and directing troops, ships, and aircraft in effective maneuvers against an enemy. Quoted from somewhere on the interwebz. Scale is not THE difference. Usually yes, strategies are larger in scale but that is not the difference. I'm glad a few people have carried on with the topic instead of telling me I'm wrong. I was wrong though the game does have tactics, and strategy, just none compared to proper tactical FPS like CS. @Templar Give up man, the FPS community left 2 weeks into this build. There's only 20 or so of us left. @Garr Indoor maps will be brilliant :) I know the current map sucks. I miss crater lake :(
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 16:31:00 - [10] - Quote LoL, you must get some horrible scores in CS. Read your last sentence and tell me how I can take you seriously. Mini maps REDUCE the amount of tactics as they essentially counter player movement. Hence why games hardcore modes don't have minimaps. I don't suggest removing the map from Dust. I rather like having my head up my own arse. Means my face can get a tan too.

Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 16:58:00 - [11] - Quote You know where he is. He's either watching A or B. If he's attacking, you should be watching A or B. CS is the only game where tents are provided free of charge :) Oh and minimap removes teamwork. You start to use the minimap a lot instead of communicating a lot. Trust me, no minimap means you are less likely to go chasing kills. If you do you leave the objective. That's also known as losing on CS :) @Templar While I'm not a huge fan of DICE, they know what they are doing. Experienced guys are exactly what CCP need. I never really liked battlefield because of the maps & movement. But if anyone knows how to make the best sounds, and make guns feel like guns, DICE are #1.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 17:14:00 - [12] - Quote Pffft get some skill. It's more fun to rugby tackle someone with a knife ;)
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 19:01:00 - [13] - Quote @Larheon Did you play the original 1.3 -1.6? AK was always the weapon of choice. Or M4. Or AWP. The AWP isn't over powered. It can't be over powered. Unless it 1 shots tanks too. Can you divulge if your health regens, like how they ruined Rainbow Six when they released Vegas? If they have an NDA in effect don't worry about it. I think once grouping is implemented we'll see more strategies appear. This will be when the MAG crews clear up. And EvE based corps will be finding tactics to stop us. I have to say I don't want a scifi CS, but it is the best example of gunplay, strategy and tactics of any FPS.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 22:04:00 - [14] - Quote EVICER wrote: Septem Mortuus wrote: @Veigar, You missed a memo. You have to substitute "MAG 2.0" for "True FPS" and you'll pretty much see the true complaint that lot have. Same people, same complaints. Wrong .... MAG had vehicles Vehicle skills, repair skills, assets, lots of things that aren't in "pure" FPS games. There are SO many mag players who were repair/medic/AV, I can't wait to see grouping in action. @Larheon AWP was just a typo. They misspelled WIN.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.24 23:51:00 - [15] - Quote Deathmatch/Team Deathmatch is the original PvP multiplayer FPS game. Everything else is just an extension of that during gameplay.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.25 01:37:00 - [16] - Quote Didnt they say it will be a "Triple A FPS"? I might be wrong, or be misquoting, but I'm sure I remember something about that. Edit: The words of Hilmar CCP big cheese: "...but the main focus now for DUST is to create a fantastic, moment-to-moment AAA console shooter, which is free to download and play."
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.25 18:14:00 - [17] - Quote The "go Proto or go home" applies when players are of even skill. It doesn't matter too much. My Proto assault suits can't outrun Dropship missiles or Sagaris railguns or go toe to toe with Proto heavies. The rock paper scissors thing applies, but if 2 assault guys fight, my money is on the prototype dude beating a militia chap.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.25 22:08:00 - [18] - Quote Traditionally, it has been becomming more skilled in how you play. You are looking at it from an RPG point of view. It certainly attracts some people, but there we go. The protosuit is a big advantage over type 2 or even advanced. The bottom line is don't get behind the SP curve. Edit: Most games you become a killing machine pretty quick. The whole most games make you terrible to start with doesn't wash with me. Things like knowing the levels are much more important in most FPS than being high lvl.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.26 10:31:00 - [19] - Quote Oddly I have 12 mil sp and die only when outnumbered, missile launchers, and driving LAV's & Dropships over the redline to squash people. Protoguys are the only ones with a chance 1v1, and I usually win. The whole "Proto only counts when player ability are level" thin I posted higher up the page... I mean player skill not skillbpols and stuff. Suits don't give you 25% more health, shield ect. You need certain skills to become super prototype. Suits are easy to get. Passive skills? Now those make a HUGE difference. Edit: I die to heavies to because I find it fun out tanking them with assault.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.26 14:50:00 - [20] - Quote Oh I'm doing it so wrong I apologise. I was under the impression more play time gave me more hp, damage and regen. But seeing as I just "don't get it" I should leave. Right on. Dominance was the wrong word to use. Stupidly-huge-advantage is more correct. Maybe you are doing it wrong?

Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.26 21:52:00 - [21] - Quote It's not a problem that you can't kill the Proto heavy. It's the fact a militia heavy with stacked SP will have the same outcome. GEAR IS NOT THE PROBLEM IMHO I've said as much in countless threads. Just for you though: A militia assault rifle with 30% damage from lvl 5 weaponry and Assault proficiency skills does more damage than a protoype one WITHOUT these skills. The gear is really well balanced. Giving someone 1/3 more damage because they play 24/7 is not a good idea. I only mention the prototype item to show that it's skills and not Proto gear that matter most. I have 2 solutions: 1.) Decrease the passive bonus. 2.) increase starting SP for new characters. I'm not too fussed. If they keep it as it is, I'll take a week off, get my self sorted. And why not :)

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