Tanks are fine, we need more anti-vehicle weaponry options, like mines, flux grenades, webifyers, etc.

easy 6 steps to kill a sagaris!!

step one: get a drop ship.

step two: ram it into the sagaris.

easy 6 steps to kill a sagaris!!

step one: get a drop ship.

step two: ram it into the sagaris.

step three: have another tank ram it into a wall.

step four: throw all your AV grenades at the pinned sagaris

step five: Get 3 more guys to shoot it with advanced+ forge guns.

step six: watch it maybe blow up.

If all goes right you might see the sagaris blow up :D
but in all honesty I do agree with you. Its getting pretty problematic as more people jump ship from infantry to vehicles and most are upgrading to higher tiers.

easy 6 steps to kill a sagaris!!

step one: get a drop ship.

step two: ram it into the sagaris.

step three: have another tank ram it into a wall.

step four: throw all your AV grenades at the pinned sagaris

step five: Get 3 more guys to shoot it with advanced+ forge guns.

step six: watch it maybe blow up.

If all goes right you might see the sagaris blow up :D
but in all honesty I do agree with you. Its getting pretty problematic as more people jump ship from infantry to vehicles and most are upgrading to higher tiers.

The main problem with tier 2 tanks, is that people don't know how to kill them. People expect to kill a marauder solo, and unless you are dealing with a not so good tank driver, that simply will not happen in 9/10 cases. It is definitely possible to solo these tanks, but very difficult. That is proper!

The other night me and my buddy both hunted marauders with our s**t hot advanced forge guns, when we saw one we both harrassed it in unison until it exploded, when it wasnt exploding it was fleeing. More importantly, in forcing the tanks to flee from us I was stopping them from steamrolling my team. This meant their kill counts plummeted (from 30-0 down to 15-2) in comparison to what they were in rounds I have been on the same team as they were. :)

Traps are very effective, and swarm launchers can really do some damage if you keep at it. Teamwork is your best weapon against these, as a smart driver you will have an absolute nightmare killing solo.

Other than that minor contribution I mentioned where the Eryx did most of the work, I've never seen a Sagaris die...

...but I've had several that picked up less than 10 kills in the match because I kept them chasing the ghosts of my Swarm trails. It's nice to know that people using high-tier gear can actually hurt them. Thanks for the confirmation Nova.

Oh wow I had no idea it was that easy, next time I face one i'll coordinate this incredibly simple tactic with the randoms in my squad who most like don't have mics. Boy do I feel like an idiot, its so F**king simple. lol

The problem with the Sagaris is not so much its heinous DPS. Or it's incredible tank. It is that it has both. Coupled with the insane splash damage of rockets, it'll level just about any resistance just by pointing a rocket in its general direction. The exception being the dropships.

I have two Surya setups. and while I'm pretty well off on armour, I have literally only militia level DPS if I go for it. And vice versa, if I want incredible DPS, any player with a swarm launcher is a severe threat. I can't have both on my Surya. Apparently the Sagaris can, especially if it goes for a railgun. I'm not in game, but IIRC a heavy rail gun uses the same resources as armour, where shield tanking and the rail aren't really competing for resources.

But the primary concern in my book are the rockets, they have a fairly high rate of fire, so missing one is of little consequence, blasters do next to nothing, and rails have a very low rate of fire. But in addition to that low RoF, they both have an overheat. Rockets don't it seems. There should be a 3-6 round magazine for rockets, with the same 10-15 second cooldown we Hybrid weapons users suffer from.

The main problem with tier 2 tanks, is that people don't know how to kill them. People expect to kill a marauder solo, and unless you are dealing with a not so good tank driver, that simply will not happen in 9/10 cases. It is definitely possible to solo these tanks, but very difficult. That is proper!

Lay remote explosive traps on roads, hit them with a swarm launcher a few times so that when they chase you to try and come kill the guy with 'harmless' swarm launchers, he goes boom when he rolls over your trap! The other night I actually killed two tanks with the same trap at the same time without even knowing the second tank was there! I was pleasantly suprised to see six kills pop up on the feed. Being on the other team's comms to hear the rage was even sweeter. For the next four or five rounds I was matched against this team of 3-4 tanks, and proceeded to harass them nonstop all match, killing them quite a few times while only dying once or twice myself over the course of all of the rounds. More importantly, in forcing the tanks to flee from me I was stopping them from steamrolling my team. This meant their kill counts plummeted in comparison to what they were in rounds I have been on the same team as they were. :)

Traps are very effective, and swarm launchers can really do some damage if you keep at it. Teamwork is your best weapon against these, as a smart driver you will have an absolute nightmare killing solo.

I have two Surya setups. and while I'm pretty well off on armour, I have literally only militia level DPS if I go for it. And vice versa, if I want incredible DPS, any player with a swarm launcher is a severe threat. I can't have both on my Surya. Apparently the Sagaris can, especially if it goes for a railgun. I'm not in game, but IIRC a heavy rail gun uses the same resources as armour, where shield tanking and the rail aren't really competing for resources.

Tanks are fine. It takes teamwork to take them down and since corporations are not available and we can't have parties yet your just going to have to wait to friends are able to play with you.

Please don't change the tanks. This game has all the great components of creating a game that promotes Teamwork.

If someone doesn't want to play this game as a team player then you are not going to last long with this game.

Also just because we can't team up now and it's making it hard to be a lone star and win. That doesn't mean the game needs changed it means we need corporation functionality and Parties added.

The game play is starting to reflect the need for teamwork and since EVE is a game of teamwork this is a very very good sign.

The main problem with tier 2 tanks, is that people don't know how to kill them. People expect to kill a marauder solo, and unless you are dealing with a not so good tank driver, that simply will not happen in 9/10 cases. It is definitely possible to solo these tanks, but very difficult. That is proper!

Lay remote explosive traps on roads, hit them with a swarm launcher a few times so that when they chase you to try and come kill the guy with 'harmless' swarm launchers, he goes boom when he rolls over your trap! The other night I actually killed two tanks with the same trap at the same time without even knowing the second tank was there! I was pleasantly suprised to see six kills pop up on the feed. Being on the other team's comms to hear the rage was even sweeter. For the next four or five rounds I was matched against this team of 3-4 tanks, and proceeded to harass them nonstop all match, killing them quite a few times while only dying once or twice myself over the course of all of the rounds. More importantly, in forcing the tanks to flee from me I was stopping them from steamrolling my team. This meant their kill counts plummeted in comparison to what they were in rounds I have been on the same team as they were. :)

Traps are very effective, and swarm launchers can really do some damage if you keep at it. Teamwork is your best weapon against these, as a smart driver you will have an absolute nightmare killing solo.

Nova, what are you doing? They're supposed to believe these things are unkillable and you're ruining it!

Well if my memory does serve me (since the damn intel doesn't work yet. But it will SOON [trademark]), I cannot put names to my tank kills. In either case I get reliable kills by ambushing the tanks from blind sides if my first volleys of swarmers cannot take them down. I just reload and then go intercepting the tanks. Start with Tier 2 AV grenades and finish them off with quick dumb fire prototypes. Usually takes down even the strongest Sagaris tank when done. If I can I mark the Sagaris with a frago as squad leader and/or get on the mic and rat him out constantly so that every forge gun/swarmer points in his direction with a sign saying "Sagaris Season".

Besides I wouldn't wanna have tanks suffer the same fate as the mini gun. Nova is right in this regard but I think there's sarcasm in your last post of your protest Noc. Hard to tell since text conveys little emotions proper.

On the other hand they also could simply buff the turrets placed on the maps, not necessarily more HP but more damage definitely.
Especially large blaster turrets feel pretty weak for what they are supposed to be.

I still don't know why all the sagaris hate. The surya is a harder nut to crack by far. I should know since it is usually up to me to take them out.

In my experience, limited as it may be by only a dozen sorties in my Surya, I have to say that I've had to run from a lot of infantry with swarms and forges to go lick my wounds. Maybe it's my inexperience, or it could be that I just suck at driving HAVs. I consider myself to be somewhat clever though, and can say fairly confidently that I've squeezed out every last bit of PG/CPU to fit my Surya with the best available equipment. I will say again, I find myself running from well equipped AV infantry a lot.

Having said that, In the few head-to-head stand-and-deliver engagements I've had against Sagaris Tanks, I've managed to come out on top more often than not.

120mm plate, 3 efficient reps, 1 voltaic, 1 f45 dcu, viola, you've exceeded the sagaris passive tank and can run it all the time.

ATM first team to drop good vehicles and pilot them well can murder anything that is being called for from the opposite team by killing the "vehicle carriers" in a few shots.

Not really. This only really happens when a team gets red-lined, but by then the match is basically over and only a complete moron would try calling anything down. When the terminals at A, B, and C are still being hotly contested, I doubt very much that you'll see an experienced pilot waiting at the opposing teams red-line on the off chance they can shoot down a carrier. It's simply not an effective use of your time, and by sitting there in one place, it gives your opponents way too much time to sneak up behind you with Swarm Launchers, Forge Guns, AV grenades and/or Remote explosives. It doesn't take much of a concentrated attack to take a Marauder down.

Anyways if you think either of these tanks are bad wait until they put out the amarrian one, that will much more harder to kill. Albit slower but alot tougher for sure.

Anyways if you think either of these tanks are bad wait until they put out the amarrian one, that will much more harder to kill. Albit slower but alot tougher for sure.

I just can't wait to destroy the 1.2 mil tanks

Ryan, your in every post that mentions a Sagaris saying how much you like to kill them.
What did a saragis ever do to you, did it wrong you in some way?

"Saragis Season" starts next Thursday when the server goes back up and all you 'good' AV guys are diluted with a new batch of newbs mmmmwwwwwhahahah

Forget racial variants. Wait until we have siege modules.

Forgive my ignorance but what are Siege modules?

If you don't have Prototype Swarm Launcher or Prototype Forge gun trained you really shouldn't be making or posting complaints about Marauder tanks. Someone's invested millions into their fit, put down your AR and train an AV solution to an appropriate level. I've killed several and only have the upgraded SL.

Oh for the love of -

Teamwork. Coordinate your attacks. Keep lonewolfing and drop like flies, or wolfpack it up and plow through tanks.

Seriously, I scoff at the solo militia swarm launcher. I crap myself when that same launcher is accompanied by another launcher and a forge gun.

Forgive my ignorance but what are Siege modules?

If you don't have Prototype Swarm Launcher or Prototype Forge gun trained you really shouldn't be making or posting complaints about Marauder tanks. Someone's invested millions into their fit, put down your AR and train an AV solution to an appropriate level. I've killed several and only have the upgraded SL.

Prototype swarm launcher shoots 2 more missiles than the normal one, and one more than the tier-2 one. This is not a lot when you consider one missile (if it hits) deals only 350 damage. Not to mention how the weapon actually takes some time to load like the forge gun.

Now you are at the point of the problem, currently no matter how much ISK or SP you spend on anti-vehicle equipment you don't get such super weapons comparable to these marauders.

Fact: Prototype forge gun does more per shot and dps at max skills than a marauder.

Fact2: Prototype forge gun doesn't come with 2 rocket turrets nor make you close to invulnerable.

if web greanades flat out stopped tanks in their tracks, and were added, AV would be alot easier, you could wait for the tank to get into a good spot and go all ewok vs empire walker on it

Doesn't cost even 1/4 as much either. Point?

If I can keep a player in a well-fitted Marauder down to 4 - 0 K/D by making sure I'm the only one they focus on, while using no gear that needs replacing (Dragonfly, Toxin, Militia Swarm Launcher and Locus Grenades), someone with decent gear should be able to do the same with less effort. I only went 2 - 4, but I kept at least 150,000ISK out of the fight without losing ANYTHING, and my team won because the other team had 3 people in a vehicle hunting down one REALLY annoying Scout.

Good gear doesn't always mean good player. In the above example, REALLY not. Lunatic + Scout Suit > 3 idiots + Tank.

In another match, my Swarm Launcher fire, while not powerful, has provided enough of a diversion to let a Dropship get above and start raining fire, while a couple of Forge Gunners got into positions elsewhere nearby. End result? Dead tank, no deaths to any of our attackers. Again, I was running free gear against something extremely expensive.

And that's before you consider what REAL teamwork will bring to the game, or hte massive bump in price for tanks that's been mentioned.

I've seen a Sagaris die while I was shooting at it with my Militia Swarm Launcher.

I'm pretty sure our Eryx pilot was a major factor in its destruction. We had a well-geared Dropship staying outside the Tank's line of fire, and occasionally dropping AV soldiers (myself included) onto nearby rooftops when he had more passengers than gunners. By the time it went down, half our team was running AV builds or vehicles of their own.

I don't think they need nerfing I think they're good right now in terms of power. What they need is a price hike, and the devs have already said they're doing that.

Fact: Prototype forge gun does more per shot and dps at max skills than a marauder.

we know that forge guns are too stronk :) when the splash damage can one shot scout suits then something is really wrong.

as a tank hunter i have been on the wrong end of a sagaris more than a few times and i think its not an issue. the bigger issue that it does highlight is TEAMWORK.

it should take several players working together to take out a tank, at the moment the lack of comms is whats making the sagaris appear OP.

If one player can access a super weapon that needs the whole opposing team to take down, it is way overpowered there's simply no argument against it.

It doesn't even require teamwork to build/buy/get one of these tanks, why should it require team work to take one down?

Sure you need to spend hefty amount of SP to get one and a they cost a lot, but don't see any other class/build getting access to such super weapons.

the base cost of marauders is going to be 1.5m ISK so its only right for them to be tough, look at real tanks, the US Abram and the British Challenger 2 are some of the toughest tanks known to man, look at the combat records for Challenger 2, 70+ RPG without damage.

High cost does equal balance, I took out a sagaris the other day for the mere cost of 30k isk in combined deaths. I won economically even before the price nerf.

In a corporate contract in conquest mode, he would not have gotten paid for losing that despite making 30+ kills. Corps dont pay you kill people they pay you to take or defend stuff. Not my fault your attack or defense plan costed a quater billion one fight and the offense only lost a mere 100 million, and in the end the corp paying you got much less out of the area because you did a fine job damaging it they found it more economical to scrap the entire place and rebuild it. Which costs time and even more money.

If you fight every battle as though best expensive stuff is the way to go, you're going to lose entire wars becuase you run out of isk and ran out of sagaris to field to an outfit of poorly funded soldiers used to being paid bottom dollar and having to deal with such threats daily.

I drive a Sagaris but since my Engineering skills don't grant their proper bonus I can hardly fit it. I have 1 empty mid slot and 3 Type-G Powergrids in the low just to fit the guns. If anything looks at me side ways my shy tank turns red and catches fire. I've only got 5305 shield hp. Perhaps it's my install of Dust that's an issue but I've noticed any skill that grants a bonus per level isn't working, for me at least.

The Sagaris is here to stay for this build, until CCP changes it. The availability of vehicles right now is purely to see how the mechanics function when used on large scales.

What sucks is that some people figured out how to spec themselves and their fittings so that the Sagaris is a rolling, nigh-invincible death machine that can only be destroyed if other players have power-specced into high-tier anti tank fittings.

If it wasn't the Sagaris, it would be something else. It's not going to be like this for the final release. Right now all we can do is put up with it.

If it's really that frustrating, go jump into an ambush game instead of skirmish. I know, it's a lot less fun for some and the rewards are hardly comparable. But at least the Sagaris (likely) won't be there.

we know that forge guns are too stronk :) when the splash damage can one shot scout suits then something is really wrong.

like has been said many times in this thread, this is not a problem with tanks, but a problem with soldiers thinking miltia or tier1 swarmlaunchers or forge guns can take out a very nice tank. That should not happen. a 30k infantry setup should never be able to kill a 250k tank setup.