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Brick Schitthawse
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2012.07.10 10:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
It's not fun when you are up against 3 Sargaris, and yes all 3 were top with 20+/0. I've even been in a game, where the Sargaris driver was so dismissive of every infantry around him, he didn't even bother firing his main weapon and just proceeded to try and run everyone over. Being the only Forge Gunner in my team, there wasn't really a lot I could do, but occasionally get the odd +25 damage, watch him flee then come back a few minutes later....then a dropship landed on me.
in this current build, yes I think Sargaris are overpowered, primarily because people generally aren't working together in these pub games, but I think that once we have the ability to squad up and begin the real side of dust, namely teamwork, then you probably won't see as many in a game, and when they do, it may be in a more defensive role. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 11:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:The main problem with tier 2 tanks, is that people don't know how to kill them. People expect to kill a marauder solo, and unless you are dealing with a not so good tank driver, that simply will not happen in 9/10 cases. It is definitely possible to solo these tanks, but very difficult. That is proper!
Lay remote explosive traps on roads, hit them with a swarm launcher a few times so that when they chase you to try and come kill the guy with 'harmless' swarm launchers, he goes boom when he rolls over your trap! The other night I actually killed two tanks with the same trap at the same time without even knowing the second tank was there! I was pleasantly suprised to see six kills pop up on the feed. Being on the other team's comms to hear the rage was even sweeter. For the next four or five rounds I was matched against this team of 3-4 tanks, and proceeded to harass them nonstop all match, killing them quite a few times while only dying once or twice myself over the course of all of the rounds. More importantly, in forcing the tanks to flee from me I was stopping them from steamrolling my team. This meant their kill counts plummeted in comparison to what they were in rounds I have been on the same team as they were. :)
Traps are very effective, and swarm launchers can really do some damage if you keep at it. Teamwork is your best weapon against these, as a smart driver you will have an absolute nightmare killing solo.
Nova, what are you doing? They're supposed to believe these things are unkillable and you're ruining it! |
Ryan Martel
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 12:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:Nova Knife wrote:The main problem with tier 2 tanks, is that people don't know how to kill them. People expect to kill a marauder solo, and unless you are dealing with a not so good tank driver, that simply will not happen in 9/10 cases. It is definitely possible to solo these tanks, but very difficult. That is proper!
Lay remote explosive traps on roads, hit them with a swarm launcher a few times so that when they chase you to try and come kill the guy with 'harmless' swarm launchers, he goes boom when he rolls over your trap! The other night I actually killed two tanks with the same trap at the same time without even knowing the second tank was there! I was pleasantly suprised to see six kills pop up on the feed. Being on the other team's comms to hear the rage was even sweeter. For the next four or five rounds I was matched against this team of 3-4 tanks, and proceeded to harass them nonstop all match, killing them quite a few times while only dying once or twice myself over the course of all of the rounds. More importantly, in forcing the tanks to flee from me I was stopping them from steamrolling my team. This meant their kill counts plummeted in comparison to what they were in rounds I have been on the same team as they were. :)
Traps are very effective, and swarm launchers can really do some damage if you keep at it. Teamwork is your best weapon against these, as a smart driver you will have an absolute nightmare killing solo. Nova, what are you doing? They're supposed to believe these things are unkillable and you're ruining it!
Well if my memory does serve me (since the damn intel doesn't work yet. But it will SOON [trademark]), I cannot put names to my tank kills. In either case I get reliable kills by ambushing the tanks from blind sides if my first volleys of swarmers cannot take them down. I just reload and then go intercepting the tanks. Start with Tier 2 AV grenades and finish them off with quick dumb fire prototypes. Usually takes down even the strongest Sagaris tank when done. If I can I mark the Sagaris with a frago as squad leader and/or get on the mic and rat him out constantly so that every forge gun/swarmer points in his direction with a sign saying "Sagaris Season".
Besides I wouldn't wanna have tanks suffer the same fate as the mini gun. Nova is right in this regard but I think there's sarcasm in your last post of your protest Noc. Hard to tell since text conveys little emotions proper. |
Angel Vicious
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.07.10 13:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
As much as I hate it when a sagaris comes and completely takes over a battlefield, I have to say I agree with the leave them alone camp. I love that a vehicle takes a concerted joint effort to take down. I will say that I wouldn't mind seeing a more powerful av weapon added though. One that can deal 3k plus damage to a vehicle when fully skilled. But I would only want to see that if it was single shot clip with maybe 2 - 4 extra rounds, and it took 15 or so seconds to reload. It would give av squads a nice finishing weapon. I'm sure I am biased there though and that weapon would sound op to a lot of people.
I intend to go full av spec on launch. I can't wait for the day that I am fully specced in an av heavy suit with my trained squad of av specialists and we run into a big bad@** tank build. With the right cover and a couple of logi suits with remote rep units, a proto heavy suit with proto forge gun, you could stand toe to toe with it. Sure you won't destroy it without dmg help from your team mates. But I think you could walk out into the field and have a good slug fest with it. That's my dream at least. |
Mobius Derp
BetaMax.
8
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 13:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ryan Martel wrote:Well if my memory does serve me (since the damn intel doesn't work yet. But it will SOON [trademark]), I cannot put names to my tank kills. In either case I get reliable kills by ambushing the tanks from blind sides if my first volleys of swarmers cannot take them down. I just reload and then go intercepting the tanks. Start with Tier 2 AV grenades and finish them off with quick dumb fire prototypes. Usually takes down even the strongest Sagaris tank when done. If I can I mark the Sagaris with a frago as squad leader and/or get on the mic and rat him out constantly so that every forge gun/swarmer points in his direction with a sign saying "Sagaris Season". Besides I wouldn't wanna have tanks suffer the same fate as the mini gun. Nova is right in this regard but I think there's sarcasm in your last post of your protest Noc. Hard to tell since text conveys little emotions proper.
Ryan, your in every post that mentions a Sagaris saying how much you like to kill them. What did a saragis ever do to you, did it wrong you in some way?
"Saragis Season" starts next Thursday when the server goes back up and all you 'good' AV guys are diluted with a new batch of newbs mmmmwwwwwhahahah |
carl von oppenheimer
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 13:48:00 -
[36] - Quote
On the other hand they also could simply buff the turrets placed on the maps, not necessarily more HP but more damage definitely. Especially large blaster turrets feel pretty weak for what they are supposed to be.
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Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 14:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
carl von oppenheimer wrote:On the other hand they also could simply buff the turrets placed on the maps, not necessarily more HP but more damage definitely. Especially large blaster turrets feel pretty weak for what they are supposed to be.
I can definitely say the large blaster turret is the nastiest to take down as a tank. Not sure what you expect from militia level structures. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 15:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
I am going to fully reserve judgement until I get my tier 4 forge gun and heavy armors.
Now a Sagaris isnt invincible I have blown up quite a few of them, 3 in one match actually.
I just cant wait for cap warfare and other electronic warfare. Imagine a guy with a target painter on a sagaris. and his av squad with swam launchers that lock on in a 0.5 of a second. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:22:00 -
[39] - Quote
I still don't know why all the sagaris hate. The surya is a harder nut to crack by far. I should know since it is usually up to me to take them out. |
BorrowedTime TM
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
44
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:32:00 -
[40] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:I still don't know why all the sagaris hate. The surya is a harder nut to crack by far. I should know since it is usually up to me to take them out.
In my experience, limited as it may be by only a dozen sorties in my Surya, I have to say that I've had to run from a lot of infantry with swarms and forges to go lick my wounds. Maybe it's my inexperience, or it could be that I just suck at driving HAVs. I consider myself to be somewhat clever though, and can say fairly confidently that I've squeezed out every last bit of PG/CPU to fit my Surya with the best available equipment. I will say again, I find myself running from well equipped AV infantry a lot.
Having said that, In the few head-to-head stand-and-deliver engagements I've had against Sagaris Tanks, I've managed to come out on top more often than not. |
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Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:40:00 -
[41] - Quote
BorrowedTime TM wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:I still don't know why all the sagaris hate. The surya is a harder nut to crack by far. I should know since it is usually up to me to take them out. In my experience, limited as it may be by only a dozen sorties in my Surya, I have to say that I've had to run from a lot of infantry with swarms and forges to go lick my wounds. Maybe it's my inexperience, or it could be that I just suck at driving HAVs. I consider myself to be somewhat clever though, and can say fairly confidently that I've squeezed out every last bit of PG/CPU to fit my Surya with the best available equipment. I will say again, I find myself running from well equipped AV infantry a lot. Having said that, In the few head-to-head stand-and-deliver engagements I've had against Sagaris Tanks, I've managed to come out on top more often than not.
120mm plate, 3 efficient reps, 1 voltaic, 1 f45 dcu, viola, you've exceeded the sagaris passive tank and can run it all the time. |
BorrowedTime TM
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
44
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:47:00 -
[42] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:BorrowedTime TM wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:I still don't know why all the sagaris hate. The surya is a harder nut to crack by far. I should know since it is usually up to me to take them out. In my experience, limited as it may be by only a dozen sorties in my Surya, I have to say that I've had to run from a lot of infantry with swarms and forges to go lick my wounds. Maybe it's my inexperience, or it could be that I just suck at driving HAVs. I consider myself to be somewhat clever though, and can say fairly confidently that I've squeezed out every last bit of PG/CPU to fit my Surya with the best available equipment. I will say again, I find myself running from well equipped AV infantry a lot. Having said that, In the few head-to-head stand-and-deliver engagements I've had against Sagaris Tanks, I've managed to come out on top more often than not. 120mm plate, 3 efficient reps, 1 voltaic, 1 f45 dcu, viola, you've exceeded the sagaris passive tank and can run it all the time.
Hmmm... when the servers come back online I'll try that out. I don't think I considered stacking 3 efficient reps and went with the one heavy efficient rep with 2 powergrid expansion units. |
Ferocitan
22
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 17:40:00 -
[43] - Quote
ATM first team to drop good vehicles and pilot them well can murder anything that is being called for from the opposite team by killing the "vehicle carriers" in a few shots. |
BorrowedTime TM
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
44
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 17:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ferocitan wrote:ATM first team to drop good vehicles and pilot them well can murder anything that is being called for from the opposite team by killing the "vehicle carriers" in a few shots.
Not really. This only really happens when a team gets red-lined, but by then the match is basically over and only a complete moron would try calling anything down. When the terminals at A, B, and C are still being hotly contested, I doubt very much that you'll see an experienced pilot waiting at the opposing teams red-line on the off chance they can shoot down a carrier. It's simply not an effective use of your time, and by sitting there in one place, it gives your opponents way too much time to sneak up behind you with Swarm Launchers, Forge Guns, AV grenades and/or Remote explosives. It doesn't take much of a concentrated attack to take a Marauder down. |
Ferocitan
22
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 18:31:00 -
[45] - Quote
BorrowedTime TM wrote:Ferocitan wrote:ATM first team to drop good vehicles and pilot them well can murder anything that is being called for from the opposite team by killing the "vehicle carriers" in a few shots. Not really. This only really happens when a team gets red-lined, but by then the match is basically over and only a complete moron would try calling anything down. When the terminals at A, B, and C are still being hotly contested, I doubt very much that you'll see an experienced pilot waiting at the opposing teams red-line on the off chance they can shoot down a carrier. It's simply not an effective use of your time, and by sitting there in one place, it gives your opponents way too much time to sneak up behind you with Swarm Launchers, Forge Guns, AV grenades and/or Remote explosives. It doesn't take much of a concentrated attack to take a Marauder down. Skirmish ;) Sorry for not specifying in what type of fight. There the red line is common and no safezones to spawn in. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 18:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
Anyways if you think either of these tanks are bad wait until they put out the amarrian one, that will much more harder to kill. Albit slower but alot tougher for sure. |
BorrowedTime TM
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
44
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 19:07:00 -
[47] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Anyways if you think either of these tanks are bad wait until they put out the amarrian one, that will much more harder to kill. Albit slower but alot tougher for sure.
Actually, I was thinking that these tanks aren't even the top class...
From what I've seen, there are 4 tiers of weapons/dropsuits/equipment/modules/etc.. We have Militia, Standard/Basic, Advanced/Enhanced, and Prototype/Complex. By my reckoning, we have Militia HAVs (Soma/Sica), Standard HAVs (Gunloggi/Madrugar), and Advanced HAVs (Sagaris/Surya).
What, pray tell, will Prototype HAVs be like? |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 19:08:00 -
[48] - Quote
Forget racial variants. Wait until we have siege modules. |
Ray seveN
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 20:26:00 -
[49] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Anyways if you think either of these tanks are bad wait until they put out the amarrian one, that will much more harder to kill. Albit slower but alot tougher for sure. The prices of these tank will be hiked up by then. someone said the price of a madrugar would be close to 1.2 mill. If this is true then that amarrian tank would be leave an amazingly large dent in someone's wallet |
gangsta nachos
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
377
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 20:29:00 -
[50] - Quote
I just can't wait to destroy the 1.2 mil tanks |
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Ray seveN
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 20:34:00 -
[51] - Quote
gangsta nachos wrote:I just can't wait to destroy the 1.2 mil tanks Pilots would go ape **** if you did that bro!! Specially the new ones that finally got their t1 tank that costed 1.2 mil that you/me destroyed with 3 militia AV grenades. Hell even a mass driver can kill one of those |
Ryan Martel
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 21:18:00 -
[52] - Quote
Mobius Derp wrote:Ryan Martel wrote:Well if my memory does serve me (since the damn intel doesn't work yet. But it will SOON [trademark]), I cannot put names to my tank kills. In either case I get reliable kills by ambushing the tanks from blind sides if my first volleys of swarmers cannot take them down. I just reload and then go intercepting the tanks. Start with Tier 2 AV grenades and finish them off with quick dumb fire prototypes. Usually takes down even the strongest Sagaris tank when done. If I can I mark the Sagaris with a frago as squad leader and/or get on the mic and rat him out constantly so that every forge gun/swarmer points in his direction with a sign saying "Sagaris Season". Besides I wouldn't wanna have tanks suffer the same fate as the mini gun. Nova is right in this regard but I think there's sarcasm in your last post of your protest Noc. Hard to tell since text conveys little emotions proper. Ryan, your in every post that mentions a Sagaris saying how much you like to kill them. What did a saragis ever do to you, did it wrong you in some way? "Saragis Season" starts next Thursday when the server goes back up and all you 'good' AV guys are diluted with a new batch of newbs mmmmwwwwwhahahah
Kind of my job but in truth, I used to be in that camp despite the insidious damage I was currently doing since they just wouldn't die. I kept at it, studied the map, tweaked my load outs and tactics studied my biggest hurdle in the game and found out, "hey they actually do blow up!" Now a days, I'm not in that "Sagaris is Overpowered" wagon since that for me was proven false. Dangerous as hell yes, hard to take down on your own yes, but not impossible.
Add the fact that typically good teammates better the odds and I don't have issues with it anymore and defend the current version. I do not want it to become the next Heavy so it's why I say in a summed up way "They can actually be killed".
Also I just like blowing up expensive "cats". And tanks tend to be as expensive as it gets. .
Have fun making them newbies make new threads about the Sagaris though, I find it hilarious. |
Ryan Martel
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 21:20:00 -
[53] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:Forget racial variants. Wait until we have siege modules.
Forgive my ignorance but what are Siege modules? |
Rykenth Drekk
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
76
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 21:53:00 -
[54] - Quote
Haha! Tactics tactics tactics. I agree. Anything is possible here. And I've been dropped by tanks just spraying across in hope of luck to even hit me. Not saying it was bad luck, as I was ganked. Haha! But anyway. I learned certain ways to avoid them in my own ways too. When I'm using something small, not a heavy. Which I hardly use anyway. It's actually pretty simple to annoy a tank driver. I even sometimes kite them around the field when they don't give up. Like when in a scout dropsuit? Easy as pie. Running from cover to cover, having them chase me in circles while they shoot off their guns all day at me... Not a problem. haha! But at the same time. I don't really expect that I would take one down with my pretty assault rifle, or snipe rifle. Well not easily anyway. I've dropped a couple that way, but time to kill ratio isn't really worth it... Point being. I think we should look at this in terms of EVE mechanics... Because that's the best example that I can think of in this situation... What's the point of being a tank, if one guy can drop you with little effort? shouldn't work that way. Doesn't in real life either. Haha!
Anyway. Back to the point. In EVE. Titans are the largest ships in game. That are able to be flown by players. They are the "Big daddy". They have what's called a "Doomsday." Weapon on them. This simple means. You're pretty much guarenteed to be alpha food off the field in one shot. Unless you have a capitol sized ship or better. (I know they changed mechanics, but this is an example. ) Anyway. So if you go up against this big boy in say a battlship? He gets a lock on you, and lined up... You're dust. And you're not gonna be taking him out with your pea shooters... Haha! It's like a kid on a bicycle playing chicken with a semi-truck. Who's gonna come out the victor?
But. The advantage to the battleship is this: Speed. You can duck, dodge, weave, and pretty much avoid it. But if you stop... Gone. Same concept with tanks. Although heavies aren't quite quick enough to play that game, as far as I know. I don't use tanks, or heavies often at all. Haha! Anyway. Hope this helps someone though. Seems logical to me. |
Jonquill Caronite
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
115
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 22:17:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ryan Martel wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Forget racial variants. Wait until we have siege modules. Forgive my ignorance but what are Siege modules?
In EVE a Siege Module is used on Dreadnaughts and makes the Dreadnaught unable to get support or repairs from other ships, makes it completely stationary, and ramps up its ability to tank damage, and its damage rate by 500% I believe, making it the highest DPS ship in the game. The trade off is it take strontium, a relatively expensive fuel to run this process, and you can't 'leave' siege mode at will, once it starts you have to go all the way through with the assault before you can move again.
So basically if they introduced this concept, a Sagaris would become a stationary super tank capable of one shotting ANYTHING at all that came into range, it would be MUCH MUCH harder to kill, but everyone and their mother would soon know where it was at, and thus the whole team could make a coordinated effort to take it out, and it couldn't run or do anything to prevent it, or they could just avoid it knowing its in siege mode...
Frankly this would be easy to counter in this game... Just park a dropship above it out of its turret arc, and rain hell down on it, it can't run to cover so you'll probably break its tank before it exits siege mode...
As for the Sagaris being OP... Any game where both sides have them, its automatically not OP, in fact it automatically becomes a huge tactical blunder and a massive loss of wealth and a drain on the players using them. Its only OP if the opposing side doesn't have the counter =), and there are plenty of counters... This isn't adapt or die, its something else, but so many threads have been posted on this, its tiring... The Sagaris will be balanced without being nerfed upon price, SP changes, and additions. |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 02:18:00 -
[56] - Quote
If you don't have Prototype Swarm Launcher or Prototype Forge gun trained you really shouldn't be making or posting complaints about Marauder tanks. Someone's invested millions into their fit, put down your AR and train an AV solution to an appropriate level. I've killed several and only have the upgraded SL. |
Ryan Martel
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 02:49:00 -
[57] - Quote
Rhadiem wrote:If you don't have Prototype Swarm Launcher or Prototype Forge gun trained you really shouldn't be making or posting complaints about Marauder tanks. Someone's invested millions into their fit, put down your AR and train an AV solution to an appropriate level. I've killed several and only have the upgraded SL.
Indeed. Heck I think Im about to hit 7 million in my AV heavy build, give or take some deviating to round myself out better and make myself more capable of getting to where I need to be and I still ain't done. |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
157
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 03:18:00 -
[58] - Quote
Oh for the love of -
Teamwork. Coordinate your attacks. Keep lonewolfing and drop like flies, or wolfpack it up and plow through tanks.
Seriously, I scoff at the solo militia swarm launcher. I crap myself when that same launcher is accompanied by another launcher and a forge gun. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 03:28:00 -
[59] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Oh for the love of -
Teamwork. Coordinate your attacks. Keep lonewolfing and drop like flies, or wolfpack it up and plow through tanks.
Seriously, I scoff at the solo militia swarm launcher. I crap myself when that same launcher is accompanied by another launcher and a forge gun. Yeah, I've been part of taking down a Sagaris, and its laughably easy if you surround the operator. If you fire from multiple directions to keep the small turret gunners tracking around, you can get it into armor in short order, at which point they most often bail and leave the operator to die. |
Mobius Derp
BetaMax.
8
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 11:35:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ryan Martel wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Forget racial variants. Wait until we have siege modules. Forgive my ignorance but what are Siege modules?
Siege modules in eve are used on a few of the capital class ships, the one its used on that would probably be most relavant to the dust marauders is the dreadnought class.
These ships have massive tanks and do massive amounts of dps. When you activate the siege module it increases the tank and the dps output by heaps, can't remember the exact amount.
On the downside when you start it you can't stop it until the cycle finishes, which I think is around 5 minutes. During this time you can't move or receive remote repairs from other players. Basically it can be a massive help or a hindrance if used at the wrong time. Here's a link with its stats.
The one for the carrier is also interesting as to how it could effect logistics viechles if the release something similar for dust. Here's that one.
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