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4 man squads in Pubs? Then give us Team Deploy in FW!!!!

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True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.29 21:06:00 - [1] - Quote As I've said before I am not interested in being penalised because my opposition is too lazy or disorganised. FW is a semi-competitive setting and if I or a group of players that can amass an deploy a full team wish to make it competitive and organise ourselves we should be able to. People say FW should be 'the middle ground' between public and PC contracts. I disagree. It should be its own game mode with its own challenges that corporations if they should want to can establish and sustain their Dust 514 careers. EVE side FW you can fly alone if you like. Just don't expect to shift system wide control particular greatly unless you spend hours grinding out plexes in low traffic systems. Don't expect to be able to stand and fight against roaming fleets because they will annihilate you. You can fly solo but you are encouraged to fly in groups. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.29 21:38:00 - [2] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: True Adamance wrote: As I've said before I am not interested in being penalised because my opposition is too lazy or disorganised. FW is a semi-competitive setting and if I or a group of players that can amass an deploy a full team wish to make it competitive and organise ourselves we should be able to. People say FW should be 'the middle ground' between public and PC contracts. I disagree. It should be its own game mode with its own challenges that corporations if they should want to can establish and sustain their Dust 514 careers. EVE side FW you can fly alone if you like. Just don't expect to shift system wide control particular greatly unless you spend hours grinding out plexes in low traffic systems. Don't expect to be able to stand and fight against roaming fleets because they will annihilate you. You can fly solo but you are encouraged to fly in groups. The bold sentence is the heart of the issue that I am talking about. I believe that a platoon mechanic eliminates this (bold) as a possibility. We don't have an open world like EVE does, so the ability to have control of the entire roster of players is a very powerful one. I still think that we need to have a system that allows for those solo players to exist in the game mode. The current system, while flawed and logistically clunky for competitive teams, does allow that space Indeed but I don't see why FW should pander to the solo player. We have public contracts for that. FW is its own persistent conflict that should have a wider focus beyond the individual. If solo players wish to farm LP but not deal with the semi-competitive nature of FW conflicts perhaps Faction PvE missions would serve for their grind. The issue unlike EVE as you point out is that players you can communicate with are vastly more valuable on the field than those who cannot and in some instances the presence of solo players compromises the effectiveness of a competitive team. Since we do have limited space in order to make more competitive teams you have to try to command as many of the 16 character slots as possible. I'd rather and FW system where player have the agency to chose which system and planets we need to be attacking and defending at any given time. That was our syncs could make our own warzones in important area while solo players who don't care or simply want to farm can attack low traffic and unimportant areas. Again when I go into FW I want to win. I want to be fighting the best the enemy faction can throw at us IF they can mount a team that can beat our own and NOT because our team was penalised to cater to the whims of people who likely don't care enough. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.29 22:10:00 - [3] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Owned by arguing proficiency 5? You are just delusional now. The simple fact is that eliminating everyone from FW besides those that want to get into a 16 man squad is idiotic. Not a single person has been able to tell me where I am wrong in the numbers on how it screws over most of the player base and obviously CCP agrees or this conversation would not even be happening right now. I do not need an explanation on jump starting as I am the one that coined the phrase and taught people how to do it back when I ran AmarrOne. Punching every person in the channel in the face? I am not sure how keeping FW functional for the majority of the player base while eliminating some of the need to sync and making it easier for them to sync if they still feel like it is punching them in the face but ok. I think the solution to FW's issues lies in giving those players who want it the agency to affect systems and regions on a large scale in a manner that actually reflects their efforts for a fair amount of time allowing them to directly aid EVE side pilots in their conquest while at the same time providing the solo player low traffic systems in which they can fight or PvE content that will allow them LP. It's not about kicking people out of FW. It's about not penalising those players who want to take it that step further. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.29 22:28:00 - [4] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: I think CCP can limit to only one 8 man squad ending up in any fleet war battle. It might balance better with fire teams and solo players. If by 'Fleet War Battle' you reference EVE then the answer is no, if you mean Faction Warfare Battle then I am sure they could but honestly why would they? It's nothing but another arbitrary limitation imposed on players for no reason other than to placate the whining of GD. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.29 23:16:00 - [5] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: I am delusional while you are thinking that all of a sudden FW players are going to protest the game mode? This is just plain funny. Honestly the game mode would lack real value to me if more pointless limitations were imposed upon us. It's hard to keep justifying committing to a game mode in which progress is measured in 20 minute intervals and capturing one district is likely to see it lost within that time frame, where the only reason people play it is to grind LP, and players themselves are penalised for taking the mode seriously. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.29 23:26:00 - [6] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: True Adamance wrote: deezy dabest wrote: I am delusional while you are thinking that all of a sudden FW players are going to protest the game mode? This is just plain funny. Honestly the game mode would lack real value to me if more pointless limitations were imposed upon us. It's hard to keep justifying committing to a game mode in which progress is measured in 20 minute intervals and capturing one district is likely to see it lost within that time frame, where the only reason people play it is to grind LP, and players themselves are penalised for taking the mode seriously. No argument there but adding 16 man deploy to the current system and blocking most of the player base as is being proposed here only serves to do more damage. Not really sure it does. Organised groups will keep queuing as they do and keep winning matches out over those who do not care enough or are too lazy to deploy with allies. Organisation and Numbers > Individual Skill Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.29 23:54:00 - [7] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: True Adamance wrote: deezy dabest wrote: True Adamance wrote: deezy dabest wrote: I am delusional while you are thinking that all of a sudden FW players are going to protest the game mode? This is just plain funny. Honestly the game mode would lack real value to me if more pointless limitations were imposed upon us. It's hard to keep justifying committing to a game mode in which progress is measured in 20 minute intervals and capturing one district is likely to see it lost within that time frame, where the only reason people play it is to grind LP, and players themselves are penalised for taking the mode seriously. No argument there but adding 16 man deploy to the current system and blocking most of the player base as is being proposed here only serves to do more damage. Not really sure it does. Organised groups will keep queuing as they do and keep winning matches out over those who do not care enough or are too lazy to deploy with allies. Organisation and Numbers > Individual Skill What happens when those organized squads can not get a match for most of the day because everyone but the players who want to run 16 man squads have quit. When people know they can not go in without a 16 man squad and do not have the time or the energy to sit around waiting on 15 other people the whole game mode goes down the drain in a hurry. Which is why I've stated in the past that we need various outlets for smaller games without compromising the competitive and organised spirit of FW. Perhaps in FW we could work out battles on complex sizes. 4v4's in the Smalls 8v8's for our Mediums 16vs 16 for the most valuable Large Complexes Players can still be competitive though on different levels. New players can be placed into smaller more manageable conflicts. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.30 00:05:00 - [8] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: SirManBoy wrote: Personally, I think splitting queues sends the message that the meta for FW doesn't matter. If that's what it takes to broker a compromise on this issue, then so be it, but it really doesn't make sense if we are to believe that the results of FW battles in Dust matter to EVE. Why couldn't they just put team deploy against team deploy. Similar to how squads fight squads They could sure but would a sixteen man queue even work if there was no opposing 16 man queue? Again it's a matter of punishing those who wish to play in a large group. I mean I am not adverse to good fights......the lack of them is what keeps me on and offing session in Dust. However FW needs to be treated as something other than a LP grind/faucet or Public Matches 2.0. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.30 02:36:00 - [9] - Quote To address Gaston's post ...... there is no doubt you are doing something. However as much as you demand others understand your perspective of your efforts in FW you too must attempt to understand the perspective others who play the mode, especially those like myself who take the mode very seriously, and make it as competitive as possible. In any instance where I could choose you as a solo player or any other player willing to communicate and function with the squad the choice is immediately clear. This is not because I want to force you out of the game mode but because I want to ensure those in my session do have a firm grasp of the tactics we will be using and can relay information back to the squad leader to then act upon. This voiced player is a significantly more 'reliable' asset to the squad. And that reliability is what is important. Though as Kain said.....and I have no idea why I am agreeing with him today..... if you enter into FW and are one of those individuals who are complaining about organised groups you do have no one to blame but yourself. These are players organising themselves into groups in 'LOW SECURITY SPACE'.....my god the sheer amount of tears that would flow if Dusters ever attempted to fly those systems EVE side with the sensibilities they currently have.... Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:01:00 - [10] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: [ In short, a 16 man squad of randoms could not possibly stand up to a 16 man squad of people who already know their **, and making it easier for 16 man squads to run together is just going to make it easier for close knitted teams to own the playing field. Yes. An organised 16 man team will likely and ideally should always beat a disorganised team. This is the purpose of team work. That being said I understand why you are concerned about team deploy though it does not stop me from wanting to try it out. More than winning though its about playing the game with some very cool people who also fight for the same faction. Hell listening to 16 random people shoot the about Emperor Jamal and how he dominated the inter-Empire basket ball leagues of New Eden....amongst of stupid ** is hilarious. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:08:00 - [11] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: True Adamance wrote: To address Gaston's post ...... there is no doubt you are doing something. However as much as you demand others understand your perspective of your efforts in FW you too must attempt to understand the perspective others who play the mode, especially those like myself who take the mode very seriously, and make it as competitive as possible. In any instance where I could choose you as a solo player or any other player willing to communicate and function with the squad the choice is immediately clear. This is not because I want to force you out of the game mode but because I want to ensure those in my session do have a firm grasp of the tactics we will be using and can relay information back to the squad leader to then act upon. This voiced player is a significantly more 'reliable' asset to the squad. And that reliability is what is important. Though as Kain said.....and I have no idea why I am agreeing with him today..... if you enter into FW and are one of those individuals who are complaining about organised groups you do have no one to blame but yourself. These are players organising themselves into groups in 'LOW SECURITY SPACE'.....my god the sheer amount of tears that would flow if Dusters ever attempted to fly those systems EVE side with the sensibilities they currently have.... I have absolutely no qualms with organized groups. The other team has a good squad running together and my team is all Final Fantasy one man army wanna-bes, myself included? That's fine. I'll take my beating. I ran solo by choice. I have a problem with organized groups of 16 people being able to deploy all at once. It's one thing to fight a squad of just six, or even the upcoming eight people. Fighting a full group of 16 is silly. Factional Warfare is competitive. That's fine. I get that. It's why I play. But Factional Warfare isn't PC. I'm not running factionals to fight against a full team of Capital Acquisition. Whereas I am. In many respects this is where we fundamentally disagree with the vision of FW. I'd like to see organised groups create their own warzones in systems of their choosing or at the behest of EVE corps in which conflicts are bitter, competitive, and demand organisation and team work from those involved. This ideal however does preclude solo players from earning LP. It does however relegate them to less contested systems where large and more competitive entities are not deployed or into PvE missions for the factions themselves. I'm sorry but at present time I am unwilling to compromise on my stance that this game should not penalise players who wish to treat the mode with some level of competitive spirit or as end game content forcing them down to cater to smaller groups and solo players. It should be its own game mode that can encompass all kinds of players but with a distinct focus on militia communities and the efforts of the group. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:14:00 - [12] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: True Adamance wrote: These are players organising themselves into groups in 'LOW SECURITY SPACE'.....my god the sheer amount of tears that would flow if Dusters ever attempted to fly those systems EVE side with the sensibilities they currently have.... This made me lol. I just imagined a bunch of Duster war barges jumping through Amamake without a care in the world. Last time I was in Ammamake it was quiet as all hell. Eerie really. No Minmatar. No Pirates. Just Purple. But I do see your point...... I was more imagining a bunch of Dusters jumping in in assorted Destroyers and encountering a frigate fleet typing in local their confusion as to why they are the ones being slapped around. Hell I even remember rebuking to a ....admittedly rather recognisable Duster on these forums.... because the guy wouldn't equip more than his Orbital Laser S ammo and T1 modules because he was convinced that he'd be unable to switch ammo types and fight back if an enemy jumped onto him...... I walked away head in my hands. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:18:00 - [13] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: True Adamance wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: SirManBoy wrote: Personally, I think splitting queues sends the message that the meta for FW doesn't matter. If that's what it takes to broker a compromise on this issue, then so be it, but it really doesn't make sense if we are to believe that the results of FW battles in Dust matter to EVE. Why couldn't they just put team deploy against team deploy. Similar to how squads fight squads They could sure but would a sixteen man queue even work if there was no opposing 16 man queue? Again it's a matter of punishing those who wish to play in a large group. I mean I am not adverse to good fights......the lack of them is what keeps me on and offing session in Dust. However FW needs to be treated as something other than a LP grind/faucet or Public Matches 2.0. Itd be corp battles. A big stone kills several birds Not in FW! There is simply no need to bastardise one game mode to make room for another. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:24:00 - [14] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: True Adamance wrote: No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: [ In short, a 16 man squad of randoms could not possibly stand up to a 16 man squad of people who already know their **, and making it easier for 16 man squads to run together is just going to make it easier for close knitted teams to own the playing field. Yes. An organised 16 man team will likely and ideally should always beat a disorganised team. This is the purpose of team work. That being said I understand why you are concerned about team deploy though it does not stop me from wanting to try it out. More than winning though its about playing the game with some very cool people who also fight for the same faction. Hell listening to 16 random people shoot the about Emperor Jamal and how he dominated the inter-Empire basket ball leagues of New Eden....amongst of stupid ** is hilarious. Can you see why I think 16 man squads for FW is a bad thing, then? If a 16 man squad of randoms can't hope to stand up against an organized corp or FW channel group, that FW basically becomes a corporation playground? And it's either join a strong FW corp and hope they pick you out of their line-up of favorites or tough luck? My fears may seem silly, but as someone with no connections in Dust but still enjoys FW, it feels like my favorite game mode would be taken from me in favor of the more 'hardcore' players. When, really, do you actually need a full 16 man squad to enjoy yourselves in a match? Is there anything at all wrong with just going '8 is better than 6' and adding two more people to your regular crew? I do understand that perspective. Surely then you might see the inverse which is mine. Praetoria Imperialis Excubatoris, my alliance has made FW their home for almost a decade now, and FW in Dust has the potential to actually mean something to EVE pilots and my alliance. I want to stop being that charity case of a division that does nothing to help them. I want to actually contribute in a meaningful way to their efforts up there. FW is also my favourite mode. I don't want to see it bastardised into Public Matches 2.0 for the sake of players who don't care enough to get themselves sorted. Nor do I really want to see it become Corp Battles 2.0 either. But FW needs a real identity, it needs narrative, and it needs room for agency and those who want to take it seriously to take it seriously. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:27:00 - [15] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: The irony here is that Corp Battles 1.0 was FW. In some respects yes. In others no. PIE Inc, which was what we were back then, would group up when it could and join whatever battles it could. We never had a full 16 grouping then and yet we'd almost always come across a competitive group of players be they a full sync or maybe even a squad. Sometimes we'd find absolutely nothing in the way of competition. It depended on which contracts we chose to pick up. At least back then corporations respected one another, actually cared for what they fought about, were loyal to their factions, and did all that for nothing more than a good series of fights, some contextual value, and a tiny little portion of ISK. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.30 03:49:00 - [16] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: True Adamance wrote: No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: True Adamance wrote: No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: [ In short, a 16 man squad of randoms could not possibly stand up to a 16 man squad of people who already know their **, and making it easier for 16 man squads to run together is just going to make it easier for close knitted teams to own the playing field. Yes. An organised 16 man team will likely and ideally should always beat a disorganised team. This is the purpose of team work. That being said I understand why you are concerned about team deploy though it does not stop me from wanting to try it out. More than winning though its about playing the game with some very cool people who also fight for the same faction. Hell listening to 16 random people shoot the about Emperor Jamal and how he dominated the inter-Empire basket ball leagues of New Eden....amongst of stupid ** is hilarious. Can you see why I think 16 man squads for FW is a bad thing, then? If a 16 man squad of randoms can't hope to stand up against an organized corp or FW channel group, that FW basically becomes a corporation playground? And it's either join a strong FW corp and hope they pick you out of their line-up of favorites or tough luck? My fears may seem silly, but as someone with no connections in Dust but still enjoys FW, it feels like my favorite game mode would be taken from me in favor of the more 'hardcore' players. When, really, do you actually need a full 16 man squad to enjoy yourselves in a match? Is there anything at all wrong with just going '8 is better than 6' and adding two more people to your regular crew? I do understand that perspective. Surely then you might see the inverse which is mine. Praetoria Imperialis Excubatoris, my alliance has made FW their home for almost a decade now, and FW in Dust has the potential to actually mean something to EVE pilots and my alliance. I want to stop being that charity case of a division that does nothing to help them. I want to actually contribute in a meaningful way to their efforts up there. FW is also my favourite mode. I don't want to see it bastardised into Public Matches 2.0 for the sake of players who don't care enough to get themselves sorted. Nor do I really want to see it become Corp Battles 2.0 either. But FW needs a real identity, it needs narrative, and it needs room for agency and those who want to take it seriously to take it seriously. I do see it, but, much like you don't agree with me, I can't quite agree with you. I'm a broken record by now, but I really don't think 16 man squads would be good for the game mode. I guess if Factionals ever actually get their platoons we'll see what comes of it. Thank you for actually talking with me, by the way, rather than simply saying 'no, you're wrong and stupid'. Even though I may very well be one or both of those things. Eh I try not to do that sort of thing if I can help it. Better to actually hear why someone believes something and where their sentiments come from than instantly dismiss it as nonsense. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.07.01 21:46:00 - [17] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Maybe we're the exception rather than the rule, but how about we get the tools in place to let others than the select few get a chance to experience deploying with a full team and see where things land? Not to mention with a full team deploy implementing penalties for leaving matches repeated could even be a possibility since you won't have the issue of squads leave because of a misfired sync. There already is a place for people who want a full team deploy. Its called PC. I'm not trying to debate if your group plays like spoiled suburban girls in the ghetto at 7 p.m. on a Friday night in the summer. Its already well established. You either want to drive the solo players out, or manage where they are so that you can farm. No surprise there, you are NF after all, you ladies have never changed, but thankfully you have hoovered all the like minded women to your side. Its a shame you caught some nice folks up in your net, but most of them would be proper useless in a real slug fest. Probably why you guys work so hard to avoid them. I have no interest in Molden Heath. It's a blood back water far too close to Minmatar space to use effectively. If I want Low Sec Content I have FW and if I want Null Sec Content I'm welcome in Providence. However at present it seems that what FW in Dust and EVE are too disparate to reconcile. EVE side it is a persistant conflict across entire regions of space where organisation and communication between militia groups are required to attack and flip valuable systems and defend held systems. In Dust it is a series of arbitrary battles on random planets in random systems where progress is barely remembers by the sysetm all of 20 minutes. No one wants to communicate, no one wants to change the status quo, no one wants a real FW system. Just remove FW's influence on EVE and be done with it. Our FW system is a blight against the efforts for capsuleers who are actually doing something worth while. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.07.01 22:53:00 - [18] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: True Adamance wrote: I want competitive gameplay but have no interest in Molden Heath. It's a bloody back water far too close to Minmatar space to use effectively. If I want Low Sec Content I have FW and if I want Null Sec Content I'm welcome in Providence. However at present it seems that what FW in Dust and EVE are too disparate to reconcile. EVE side it is a persistant conflict across entire regions of space where organisation and communication between militia groups are required to attack and flip valuable systems and defend held systems. In Dust it is a series of arbitrary battles on random planets in random systems where progress is barely remembers by the sysetm all of 20 minutes. No one wants to communicate, no one wants to change the status quo, no one wants a real FW system. Just remove FW's influence on EVE and be done with it. Our FW system is a blight against the efforts for capsuleers who are actually doing something worth while. I want a game with balanced vehicle play and a meaningful racial parity. What we both have is Dust. I absolutely agree that Dust and EvE should split the FW portions. There is no need for valiant space farmers to have to orbit one more button because of incompent dusties, or the whims of whatever some scrub lord leading the q sync needs to farm that day. There are many potential solutions to FW, but team deploy isn't one of them. It will only serve to narrow the people taking part, which is most likely the reason behind Kain pushing this so hard, although if he wants to sell access or corner the market on LP amongst his fellows remains to be seen. Yet there needs to be some means to facilitate large scale player run operations. Especially if agency and locality ever actually come to matter. To be frank if PIE ever said ' we need X system captured in the next few days' I sure as **** would want to monopolise all contacts in the system with as many organised players as possible simply because random individuals cannot be trusted to perform well enough to support our efforts. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.07.02 00:59:00 - [19] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yet there needs to be some means to facilitate large scale player run operations. Especially if agency and locality ever actually come to matter. To be frank if PIE ever said ' we need X system captured in the next few days' I sure as **** would want to monopolise all contacts in the system with as many organised players as possible simply because random individuals cannot be trusted to perform well enough to support our efforts. Except that in EvE, you can't monopolize the FW content. There is nothing stopping someone from making an endless string of awoxing alts, and you certainly can't keep people out of plexes without suffering the standing hit. You certainly can't keep a carebear from farming LP with L4s. How to fix FW is a much longer topic than what this thread wants to deal with, and the topic at hand is bad for FW long term, in my opinion. I fully understand that you want to commit for your militia, but supporting this type of change would produce a constantly farmed, stale FW with little to no dynamics involved between who is farming harder. No you can't and in EVE the model of FW certainly means that the presence of allies in system is beneficial to your cause. In Dust the presence of those outside of your immediate squad are a liability and a factor that cannot be relied upon to achieve. As for the talk of farming....you talk as though this is not currently facilitated by the method we currently have. FW regional control values, as inaccurate as they are, are more or less static, they never change, even attempting to change them requires more luck than effort. Not to mention popular factions have been more or less farming FW for months now. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.07.02 20:55:00 - [20] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: And will those 8 disparate groups stay in matches against team deploys? Unlikely. Will they wait until they have their own sixteen? So now the prereq for getting into FW is join a squad, wait until it fills then q for a match? Why should smaller groups be penalized with other steps just to play FW? Irony at its best. Why should larger groups be penalised for the unwillingness of solo players to actually contribute? The issue between out two disparate philosophies is that on one hand you have players who genuinely want to institute a real change in the FW setting. These players achieve this by communicating and working with other players. Then you have those who don't feel inclined to institute these changes. As solo players they cannot do so. Not with the current FW model we have in Dust Neither side is particularly well catered to. Certain players simply want to take the mode seriously and need the agency to deploy when they want and where they want in larger sized groups. A model that allows us to determine which areas of the FW we can deploy to and keep deploying to would benefit us. This way if solo players joined these specified matches in highly contested systems they are quickly brought to expect squad-centric gameplay whereas if they deployed to other systems and regions they could find similar groups and matches. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.07.02 22:42:00 - [21] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: True Adamance wrote: The Attorney General wrote: And will those 8 disparate groups stay in matches against team deploys? Unlikely. Will they wait until they have their own sixteen? So now the prereq for getting into FW is join a squad, wait until it fills then q for a match? Why should smaller groups be penalized with other steps just to play FW? Irony at its best. Why should larger groups be penalised for the unwillingness of solo players to actually contribute? The issue between out two disparate philosophies is that on one hand you have players who genuinely want to institute a real change in the FW setting. These players achieve this by communicating and working with other players. Then you have those who don't feel inclined to institute these changes. As solo players they cannot do so. Not with the current FW model we have in Dust Neither side is particularly well catered to. Certain players simply want to take the mode seriously and need the agency to deploy when they want and where they want in larger sized groups. A model that allows us to determine which areas of the FW we can deploy to and keep deploying to would benefit us. This way if solo players joined these specified matches in highly contested systems they are quickly brought to expect squad-centric gameplay whereas if they deployed to other systems and regions they could find similar groups and matches. This is absolutely a joke. Larger groups are given easier ability to queue together while mid sized groups are more likely to have actual support and randoms are still there to fill in. This lunatic agenda of screaming that not having team deploy hurts large groups is absolutely hilarious rhetoric. As I've said the sole aspect of FW that I am interested in is ensuring that it is a narrative driven persistent conflict that allows people to take it as seriously as they want. If I want to take the mode seriously I see no reason why I should not be able to. Player determined combat zones somewhat do this as larger groups would ideally convene in the more hotly contested areas while smaller group could finish themselves in less contested area. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.07.02 23:23:00 - [22] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: True Adamance wrote: As I've said the sole aspect of FW that I am interested in is ensuring that it is a narrative driven persistent conflict that allows people to take it as seriously as they want. If I want to take the mode seriously I see no reason why I should not be able to. Player determined combat zones somewhat do this as larger groups would ideally convene in the more hotly contested areas while smaller group could finish themselves in less contested area. The bold portions I agree with 100%. I'm all for creating a system where there is a place for full teams and low number people. How they come to that is not clear to me, although I do like your combat zone idea. Heck give me an 8 v 8 with no squads on smaller maps for lesser rewards, I'd be all up on that **. But I would still disagree with team deploy for FW. However you cannot segment them. FW systems are not always important all the time. Serious fights would eventuate pretty much whenever a militia says "Oi ** boys go get X System for us, were pushing it in two days." 8v8 could work in FW if we were talking about complex sizing....but ruling out squads from it and demanding it have a place in FW....god no. When you go solo you take the risk that some random fleet out for blood will pop by and destroy you with incredible ease. That's just how FW is. It's not supposed to be fair, it's not balanced all the time, it requires large scale player participation. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.07.02 23:30:00 - [23] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Powerh8er wrote: Shouldnt FW be more competitive than pubs? People will q sync Fw with or without team deploy, team deploy just makes it easier especially corp a vs corp b. Wish I could play more solo though, but im just too damn handsome and popular. Making corp A versus corp B as easy as possible is what PC is for. That is why an incredible amount of work has gone into lowering the barrier to entry for PC while shutting off the farmability. Just because PC has been constantly dumped on and broken for the entire history of this game does not mean we should break FW for most of the community just to make it a PC substitute. I can agree but FW IS NOT PUBLIC CONTRACTS 2. ******-OH! It's Low Sec. You know what that's like mate I know you do OB's and you don't get fair fights. FW should be hard, it should encourage team work, encourage wider militia connections not selfish gameplay. Unlike EVE solo plexing is not possible and it doesn't help in a semi-competitive setting where you are taking up slots other squadded players could be using. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.*

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