While I understand the opinions expressed that the Warbarges should be earned rather than given and to a certain degree I'd agree on that point, there has to be consideration given to aspects of the game itself in terms of its place in the market.

First of all as we all know its a free to play game. This places certain requirements upon it, the primary one in my considered opinion is to give a new player a sense of immediacy and dare I say it, a wow factor.

While those that joined the game early based on its association with Eve are used to that kind of slow build up, in terms of new player retention however, it can be hinderence to the games success in that regard.

While I've been on the CPM I've learned a lot about the dark art of player retention and I think it safe to say that until CCP Rouge and Rattati appeared on the scene, it wasn't an area of the games development that CCP Shanghai was particularly strong at.

You have to remember as well that while not a 'relaunch' of the game, the New Release and its Warbarge theme represents a step change away from the games past mis-steps shall we say, bringing something new to the table while holding onto its core philosophies. And while lore is important it should never get in the way of doing something that could improve the game and make it more successful.

The mercenary quarters, while very nice to look at don't convey a sense of location or of being anything other than you being a human in a room. Not terribly exciting for a new player who knows nothing about the game, it's lore and connection to New Eden.
However, make that the room you inhabit in a massive spaceship that you own then immediately, interest is piqued. It becomes easier to educate the player to the world they find themselves in once that interest is there. Uprising's main problem was a lack of generating that interest in the first place.

The second thing that I think the Warbarge being a free asset to begin with brings to the table is a sense of danger that a single merc in a room can't really portray to new players.

So while I appreciate the concerns that gifting merc's a Warbarge isn't strictly in keeping with the ethos of New Eden, I feel that in this instance, as part of a new expansion and a desire to drag new players into the game we can let this piece of trickery slide for the time being.

Besides, how cool would it be in a further point release that us merc's could walk through the door of our quarters to the bridge of our Warbarge when the Eggers are still prevented from doing so because the environmental controls are down.....

Some of the discussion about how DUST mercs could afford Warbarges gave me an idea on how to make this system more engaging.

First, I propose a progression of Warbarges, where as you progress you trade your old Warbarge in (or sell it) in order to buy a better Warbarge.

Second, on the Warbarge screen, show an image of what your Warbarge looks like. This will require Rattati to get one of the EVE Concept Artists to make some small .jpg still images, but they would give you a big bang for the buck.


Three paths to getting Warbarges:

- With the ISK path Warbarges appearing to be bodged together from old ships out of the scrapyard except for the last one which is a True Warbarge.

- LP Warbarges being modified ships as well, but looking newer and well maintained.

- AUR Warbarges are true Warbarges that you might get if you are a spoiled rich kid from Old Money who can ask your family to finance you.


Essentially the only difference between the ISK, LP, and AUR Warbarges would be the jpg image of the ship on the Warbarge Screen, and the name. But it would give an immersive feel.

Also, a Warbarge could be upgraded to the next class of Warbarge through any of the processes. So you could stat down the ISK path for your first Warbarge, then by a level 2 Raider Warbarge for AUR, and then decide to grind LP for the level 3 Warbarge.


Warbarge Progression ISK:

0)No Warbarge: Start the game with no Warbarge, and have to work toward getting one. Say there is an investor who is looking to sponsor a DUST merc, but they are not going to invest in a lowly recruit. Have Loyalty Rank 2 be the requirement to get a Warbarge. After this stage you have to pay to upgrade to each new ship, but there may also be some other requirements as you need have an impressive enough record to attract a crew.

1)Modified EVE Starter Frigate: Old, well used looking EVE Starter ship for the mercGÇÖs race. Single Platform, with no room for additional upgrades.

2)Modified Ore Barge: An Ore Barge with some small turrets attached to its belly. Expandable to 2 platforms.

3)Modified Freighter: A Freighter with some small turrets tacked on. Expandable to 3 platforms.

4)Modified Orca: A very weathered Orca, with some small turrets. Expandable to 4 Platforms.

5)Warbarge: An actually purpose built Warbarge.


Warbarge Progression LP:

0)No Warbarge: Start the game with no Warbarge, and have to work toward getting one. To get one of the Factions to sponsor you, you must get level 2 standing in a Faction to request a Warbarge.

1)Modified EVE Starter Frigate: (Requires Loyalty Rank 2) EVE Starter ship for the FactionGÇÖs race. Single Platform, with no room for additional upgrades.

2)Modified Cruiser: (Requires Loyalty Rank 4) A Cruiser of the Faction you purchased it from, which as seen better days, and has been modified for Orbital Support with the medium turrets switched out for Small turrets. Expandable to 2 platforms.

3)Modified Freighter: (Requires Loyalty Rank 6) A Freighter, of the Faction you purchased it from, with some small turrets tacked on. Expandable to 3 platforms.

4)Modified Carrier: (Requires Loyalty Rank 8) A very weathered Carrier, possibly missing some parts, of the Faction you purchased it from, with some small turrets. Expandable to 4 Platforms.

5)Warbarge: (Requires Loyalty Rank 10) An actually purpose built Warbarge, with the look of a ship designed by the Faction you purchased it from.


Warbarge Progression AUR:

0)
1)
2)Raider Warbarge: A Cruiser sized Warbarge, Expandable to 2 platforms.
3)
4)
5)Warbarge: An actually purpose built Warbarge, with the look of a ship designed by the Faction you purchased it from.

P.S.
PLEASE make the armory an actual room to enter.
Allow us a certain number of slots for fittings that can be put into the room.
Let us show off the dropsuits, together with their equipped modules and weapons, that we are proud of.

Even if no one else will be able to enter that room.

Are you talking like Tony Stark's "Iron Man" room with all his Mark Suits on display? Then I could walk up to one and look at it and pull up specifics?

If that is what you are talking about, +1 to you.

-Snip- huge post about warbarges

I have a question: Are most posters purposely trying to get us "lost in the weeds" with their posts or incidentally?

In either case...
1. please come to terms that at this point DUST is a separate game than EVE Online where warbarges do not have to be exactly the same between both games. Yes, the two games do have some cross functionality but they will never be fully integrated. We have to work with what we can get.
2. please stop giving a crap and asking questions about the visuals. Leave this to the game's designers as that's what they do.
3. please only care about and asks questions about the added functionality warbarges will bring. After all, that's what we're supposed to be giving feedback about.

why are we being compared to normal citizens? we are the immortal soldiers of the uprising

Some of the discussion about how DUST mercs could afford Warbarges gave me an idea on how to make this system more engaging.

First, I propose a progression of Warbarges, where as you progress you trade your old Warbarge in (or sell it) in order to buy a better Warbarge.

Second, on the Warbarge screen, show an image of what your Warbarge looks like. This will require Rattati to get one of the EVE Concept Artists to make some small .jpg still images, but they would give you a big bang for the buck.


Three paths to getting Warbarges:

- With the ISK path Warbarges appearing to be bodged together from old ships out of the scrapyard except for the last one which is a True Warbarge.

- LP Warbarges being modified ships as well, but looking newer and well maintained.

- AUR Warbarges are true Warbarges that you might get if you are a spoiled rich kid from Old Money who can ask your family to finance you.


Essentially the only difference between the ISK, LP, and AUR Warbarges would be the jpg image of the ship on the Warbarge Screen, and the name. But it would give an immersive feel.

Also, a Warbarge could be upgraded to the next class of Warbarge through any of the processes. So you could stat down the ISK path for your first Warbarge, then by a level 2 Raider Warbarge for AUR, and then decide to grind LP for the level 3 Warbarge.


Warbarge Progression ISK:

0)No Warbarge: Start the game with no Warbarge, and have to work toward getting one. Say there is an investor who is looking to sponsor a DUST merc, but they are not going to invest in a lowly recruit. Have Loyalty Rank 2 be the requirement to get a Warbarge. After this stage you have to pay to upgrade to each new ship, but there may also be some other requirements as you need have an impressive enough record to attract a crew.

1)Modified EVE Starter Frigate: Old, well used looking EVE Starter ship for the mercGÇÖs race. Single Platform, with no room for additional upgrades.

2)Modified Ore Barge: An Ore Barge with some small turrets attached to its belly. Expandable to 2 platforms.

3)Modified Freighter: A Freighter with some small turrets tacked on. Expandable to 3 platforms.

4)Modified Orca: A very weathered Orca, with some small turrets. Expandable to 4 Platforms.

5)Warbarge: An actually purpose built Warbarge.


Warbarge Progression LP:

0)No Warbarge: Start the game with no Warbarge, and have to work toward getting one. To get one of the Factions to sponsor you, you must get level 2 standing in a Faction to request a Warbarge.

1)Modified EVE Starter Frigate: (Requires Loyalty Rank 2) EVE Starter ship for the FactionGÇÖs race. Single Platform, with no room for additional upgrades.

2)Modified Cruiser: (Requires Loyalty Rank 4) A Cruiser of the Faction you purchased it from, which as seen better days, and has been modified for Orbital Support with the medium turrets switched out for Small turrets. Expandable to 2 platforms.

3)Modified Freighter: (Requires Loyalty Rank 6) A Freighter, of the Faction you purchased it from, with some small turrets tacked on. Expandable to 3 platforms.

4)Modified Carrier: (Requires Loyalty Rank 8) A very weathered Carrier, possibly missing some parts, of the Faction you purchased it from, with some small turrets. Expandable to 4 Platforms.

5)Warbarge: (Requires Loyalty Rank 10) An actually purpose built Warbarge, with the look of a ship designed by the Faction you purchased it from.


Warbarge Progression AUR:

0)
1)
2)Raider Warbarge: A Cruiser sized Warbarge, Expandable to 2 platforms.
3)
4)
5)Warbarge: An actually purpose built Warbarge, with the look of a ship designed by the Faction you purchased it from.

Then you'll be interested in this discussion: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2570460#post2570460

The first Warbarge is generic, and we hope to add both Faction Warbarges and Faction color selections. Work like this has been very inspiring, both for Warbarges and Dropsuits.

Faction Manufacturers

The first Warbarge is generic, and we hope to add both Faction Warbarges and Faction color selections. Work like this has been very inspiring, both for Warbarges and Dropsuits.

Faction Manufacturers

The first Warbarge is generic, and we hope to add both Faction Warbarges and Faction color selections. Work like this has been very inspiring, both for Warbarges and Dropsuits.

Bluntly a personal "warbarge" wouldn't even have to be the size of an orca, or even a megathron.

A warbarge could be any ship salvaged, hijacked, purchased, assaulted, looted from captured shipyards or cobbled together from strongboxes.

A corporate warbarge could be the orca/bowhead/providence/etc size we all come to know and love.

But an individual mercs' chop job doesn't need to be remotely so grandiose. A salvaged/stolen orca or mammoth, even a salvaged brutix or damnation could do the job.

And by and large in EVE, npc ships (non capsuleer ships) ate largely ignored in favor of juicier targets.

For example, my ideal warbarge would actually be a gutted orca hull with the hangar bay repurposed to carry two to four MCCs and a few RDVs. Repurposed to carry three battleship railguns for orbital strikes and hotwired to operate with a covert cloak the rest of the ship is repurposed to hold storage bays, automated assemblers and a makeshift clone vat bay intemded to generate dozens of cheap clones which are separated from the off duty and backup clones secreted away in other sites.

Optimized for squeezing desperate contract givers for their last nickel, evading tax algorithms and rigged for maximum havoc, the warbarge skirts the edge of legality and straddles the fine line between legitimate operation and criminal headquarters.

Based on some number wizardry I did in aeons thread, I determined that clone vat bays for 30 clones takes up about 1.8million m3 of space.

Orca's have a total volume of just over 10million m3, the Charon (caldari freighter) has a volume of >17million m3
A large battleship like a machariel only has a volume of about .6million

So we're looking at something that's larger than a battleship but probably still considerably smaller than an orca.. In fact I'd say warbarges could be done at roughly 1/3-1/2 the total volume of the orca and still have plenty of space for our vehicles, a few MCC's and whatever production facilities / special warbarge stuff is available along with all other regular 'warbarge' functions.

Are you talking like Tony Stark's "Iron Man" room with all his Mark Suits on display? Then I could walk up to one and look at it and pull up specifics?

If that is what you are talking about, +1 to you.

Anyways, as the numbers regularly show themselves to be inconsistent within CCP's own size charts, I'll apologize for further derailing thread and for attempting to speak with any overwhelming authority on the matter and leave with 'They're not *as* big as people think'.

can the debate of getting the warbarrge off the bat or earned be split off into a septate thread, its not a miner thing and i think it needs its own convo.

i think getting the war-barge in your first 10-15 hours of gameplay will greatly help in retention its a easy to display carrot, that means no matter how badly your getting pants by vents, your "my first war-barge" ticker is still going down. hell i would go as far as giving its own little CGI movie to really kick home that you have achieved something.

you could even lock of FW until you have your own barge this making new players learn the freaking game after 10 hours or so, they will have a good number of SP and isk under the belt to take the safety wheels off.

i strongly think giving it them right of the bat, almost straight away makes it lose its WoW factor,

Imagen not knowing Dust at all, and you start off in this little merc quarters, you are renting of NPC faction.

during gameplay you get little messages about "stuff" you might be intrested in, and during missions the player gets mini objectives to do, that help him out in getting his barge. (this could be hire crew, by a cheap ship, referb ship) then once she has got all the parts in place. You hit the magic buttion. Q cutscene,

and then blame you are faced with old war-barge living space we used to wait for matches in. that has a far bigger impact than here is your warbarge...got nuts. Instead you earned it, it yours it has a story "like man i had to 5 ******* missions to impress the crew enough to sign on with me...ended up killing this protosuit guy which was enough for them" it means something to you, and you can even turn the TV screen into a Sub system ticker so you can SEE! your ship too.

I hope at least some of this makes sense (ice skating for 4 hours pretty tried :P), there is a whole new player experience we can build out of this war-barge stuff, that can introduce players to lore...gameplay...easy to reach goals and nice easy baby steps, rather than the swim with the sharks.

Personally I hate the idea of having them come in flavors, where people get made to feel bad because they didn't use aur to buy their warbarges. In fact, I hate the idea of having them be massive monetary investments of isk, lp or aurum entirely.

Maybe way down the line when they decide to do actual 'skins' for warbarges they could be AUR related, but otherwise I disagree with almost your entire premise.

Fantastic ideas...for a huge dev team