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Rail rifle hit by excessive overnerf

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1463	Posted - 2014.10.28 15:49:00 - [1] - Quote Yay for arbitrary decisions by devs completely **ing over certain roles/weapons. Hipfiring more than 15 shots causes the rail rifle to kick uncontrollably, a full magazine has you facing the skybox. There is no reason why an infantry rifle should be unable to hipfire. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 532	Posted - 2014.10.28 15:51:00 - [2] - Quote The rail riffle is really really off today. I shut my playstation off because something is really wrong with it. Hopefully this is just a bad mistake. Oh btw, wait until you pull out the bolt pistol. It should be called the Slowmotion pistol Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1463	Posted - 2014.10.28 15:53:00 - [3] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: The rail riffle is really really off today. I shut my playstation off because something is really wrong with it. Hopefully this is just a bad mistake. Oh btw, wait until you pull out the bolt pistol. It should be called the Slowmotion pistol I've turned off my system a few times already and it doesn't seem to have done anything, I've even tried waking up again. Sadly I can confirm, this is not a bad dream, this is just a terrible reality. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Jaran Vilktar CORP SIX KING 34	Posted - 2014.10.28 15:56:00 - [4] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: The rail riffle is really really off today. I shut my playstation off because something is really wrong with it. Hopefully this is just a bad mistake. Oh btw, wait until you pull out the bolt pistol. It should be called the Slowmotion pistol Is the Bolt really that bad now? Glad I don't rush to join FOTM trends. I can only imagine the faces of those who fully skilled into a weapon that was simply waiting to get nerfed. DUST 514 Is the first FPS I played actively for the PS3 and is my favorite FPS to this very day. :)
RayRay James Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 584	Posted - 2014.10.28 15:59:00 - [5] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Yay for arbitrary decisions by devs completely ****ing over certain roles/weapons. Hipfiring more than 15 shots causes the rail rifle to kick uncontrollably, a full magazine has you facing the skybox. There is no reason why an infantry rifle should be unable to hipfire. Except that infantry should never be hip firing anyways. Hip firing is completely uncontrollable. You want accuracy, bring the gun up and sight it in. I think hip firing any weapon should be DRASTICALLY inaccurate vs using the scope.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 532	Posted - 2014.10.28 15:59:00 - [6] - Quote Just a 100% Caldari only player here. No FOTM business here my friend. FYI, Skilled into the bolt pistol weeks before Delta even hit. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1406	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:07:00 - [7] - Quote I like both of them so far it has limited their CQC ability nicely but they are still powerful and accurate in ADS It makes the Assault RR a better choice in close range fights... and will hopefully.. Have CCP condsider a Bolt Pistol variant (iron sights, better RoF, less dmg) ???
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 431	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:08:00 - [8] - Quote And what Cpl. Dwayne Hicks on that "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4222	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:10:00 - [9] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Just a 100% Caldari only player here. No FOTM business here my friend. FYI, Skilled into the bolt pistol weeks before Delta even hit. Adapt and overcome. The RR nerf primarily to prevent CQC usage. Get farther away from your target and aim down sights. Same with the bolt pistol. My advice to you, playa...
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3671	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:11:00 - [10] - Quote The Rail Rifle is perfect! It's funny as hell because I like the believe the kick is so strong that it bends my merc's back 90 degrees. CCP, leave the RR alone. It's lulzy now and I love it!

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4749	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:16:00 - [11] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: I like both of them so far it has limited their CQC ability nicely but they are still powerful and accurate in ADS It makes the Assault RR a better choice in close range fights... and will hopefully.. Have CCP condsider a Bolt Pistol variant (iron sights, better RoF, less dmg) ??? Two good points. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 533	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:17:00 - [12] - Quote I think you guys on the CPM that are trying to curve the weapon into a role. As a caldari player, there is no point for me to run up and hack an objective if I have to turn around and run 30m away so I can shot at the enemy. You guys been riding the Rail Riffle hate since it came out the door and forced a overnerf. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1540	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:20:00 - [13] - Quote 1.9 brings AUR respecs, you can just skill into amarr scrambler rifle melting machine: 3 complex damage mods 5 complex reactive plates 1 proto scrambler rifle rest does not matter, you can fit full proto though almost 1k base dps ~780 dps against armor over 1k dps against shields
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1464	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:21:00 - [14] - Quote RayRay James wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Yay for arbitrary decisions by devs completely **ing over certain roles/weapons. Hipfiring more than 15 shots causes the rail rifle to kick uncontrollably, a full magazine has you facing the skybox. There is no reason why an infantry rifle should be unable to hipfire. Except that infantry should never be hip firing anyways. Hip firing is completely uncontrollable. You want accuracy, bring the gun up and sight it in. I think hip firing any weapon should be DRASTICALLY inaccurate vs using the scope. Also, they don't make "arbitrary" decisions on nerfs and buffs. They have access to untolds amount of data that we couldn't ever see. It shows every aspect of every weapon, kill, death, etc. They use that data to balance everything in the game. No one goes around saying "you know what? Let's f#ck over Rail Rifles and Scouts today, see how many tears we can collect." Except maybe LogiBro, he seem's like that kind of guy "I don't like that it can be used as a weapon in close quarters" Is by its definition arbitrary. Sure they may have data, but this isn't the first time they've broken something completely in trying to 'fix' it. Also, talking to a former military buddy - standard procedure is to hipfire several shots if you see a threat when breaching a room. Operating off of your 'logic' here, should hipfire dispersion/kick get so bad on every weapon when hipfired that they may as well fly out of our hands and murder our entire team? Real world logic need not apply, we're immortal mercenaries in suits of powered armor - our clones have '10hp' and they're highly enhanced, a commando could easily kill 40-80 (assuming non-superenhanced people have between 3-6 HP) individuals in one punch before myofibrils. A heavy can easily handle a 225k heavy machine gun in one hand while reloading it. Hipfiring should be incredibly easy, not 'gun becomes uncontrollable a second in'. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 187	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:24:00 - [15] - Quote After 15 shots.. that seams like a lot lol. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 432	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:25:00 - [16] - Quote Honestly i see this like awesome balance. Yup how was told perfection is in simplicity (CCP was inspired by Mataris for sure) And BTW its by Caldari lore aswell (hardkickin' and long range) "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"
Duke Noobiam Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 231	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:28:00 - [17] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Yay for arbitrary decisions by devs completely ****ing over certain roles/weapons. Hipfiring more than 15 shots causes the rail rifle to kick uncontrollably, a full magazine has you facing the skybox. There is no reason why an infantry rifle should be unable to hipfire. Just shoot in bursts and you will be fine. How do you kill that which has no life?
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1464	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:29:00 - [18] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: After 15 shots.. that seams like a lot lol. ~2 seconds of fire on a weapon that had notoriously wonky hit detection before. Maybe to make this 'fair and balanced' all other weapons should become completely **ing uncontrollable in 2 seconds of fire. That would be 26 rounds for standard AR or about 35 for cr (works better on ACR cause we all know how dispersion resets on CR between shots). Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
CamClarke KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 219	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:44:00 - [19] - Quote Time to hang up the Rail Rifle, get a turbo controller, and use the Combat Rifle.
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 433	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:45:00 - [20] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: After 15 shots.. that seams like a lot lol. ~2 seconds of fire on a weapon that had notoriously wonky hit detection before. Maybe to make this 'fair and balanced' all other weapons should become completely ***ing uncontrollable in 2 seconds of fire. That would be 26 rounds for standard AR or about 35 for cr (works better on ACR cause we all know how dispersion resets on CR between shots). Once more its caldari, it should kick hard and be arm prefered for long range ergo you should use that for aimed shootin' more that hipfirin' "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"*

CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2191	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:53:00 - [21] - Quote A little devil inside me wants to scream - About Time you scrubs!! However I know how it feels when CCP goes a little over board with nerfs. That being said the nerfs proposed are right in what they are meant to accomplish. I might have to give them a try to see how they feel as I want balance, not excessive nerfs. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
RayRay James Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 587	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:58:00 - [22] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: After 15 shots.. that seams like a lot lol. ~2 seconds of fire on a weapon that had notoriously wonky hit detection before. Maybe to make this 'fair and balanced' all other weapons should become completely ****ing uncontrollable in 2 seconds of fire. That would be 26 rounds for standard AR or about 35 for cr (works better on ACR cause we all know how dispersion resets on CR between shots). Sounds perfect to me. As I said, hip firing should be highly inaccurate. Also, your military buddies are trained to do that as a distraction. I don't really see SWAT, Seal Team 6 or Delta Force breaching a room that way. They go in, guns up, looking down sight.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 1301	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:01:00 - [23] - Quote I keep telling you Cal brothers and sisters , we are this game punching bag ... they want Caldari at the bottom of the pole so they can take that same pole and shove it up our @$$es . It's sad , just sad . They should kill hip fire on all weapons . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 437	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:02:00 - [24] - Quote RayRay James wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: After 15 shots.. that seams like a lot lol. ~2 seconds of fire on a weapon that had notoriously wonky hit detection before. Maybe to make this 'fair and balanced' all other weapons should become completely ***ing uncontrollable in 2 seconds of fire. That would be 26 rounds for standard AR or about 35 for cr (works better on ACR cause we all know how dispersion resets on CR between shots). Sounds perfect to me. As I said, hip firing should be highly inaccurate. Also, your military buddies are trained to do that as a distraction. I don't really see SWAT, Seal Team 6 or Delta Force breaching a room that way. They go in, guns up, looking down sight. What i remember from my army training, first boyo checkin' doors, second kickin' doors third one is behin ambushing second one, forth one checkin' backside with fifth one Sorry deformation from my times "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"*
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 437	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:04:00 - [25] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I keep telling you Cal brothers and sisters , we are this game punching bag ... they want Caldari at the bottom of the pole so they can take that same pole and shove it up our @$$es . It's sad , just sad . They should kill hip fire on all weapons . Honestly Bshate most of techie ingame is caldari ergo caldari is loved son of CCP for sure "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"*

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9420	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:07:00 - [26] - Quote I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1401	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:09:00 - [27] - Quote finally the RR isnt the OP king of rifles no more [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
RayRay James Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 591	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:09:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit You, I like you. Coming into a thread where people are complaining about their favorite toy getting ****-knocked and basically says "Good, glad you feel that way"
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 437	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:10:00 - [29] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit Yup you hit nail on the head, RR was to perfect and honestly i see this nerf (kickback) like basicaly most perfect and most smart in my eyes. How i told before you basicaly show us your matari side with implementation "Perfection is in simplicity" this way on nerf of RR "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"
Koch Rosenzweig Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 14	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:15:00 - [30] - Quote You end shooting at the sky lol Huh, what a pretty biotic a$$. Slap

Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2053	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:17:00 - [31] - Quote I know right?! If only Rattati had listened and given RR users a CQC option! Wailing and gnashing of teeth! Wait... Sarcasm aside though, I haven't been able to check out the RR changes yet, I've been getting the place ready for a cat (I got a kitty!!) But this isn't the end of the world. Rattati listened and buffed the ARR some, so if you want to be better in CQC, go check it out. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 534	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:23:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit Make these stats public on a web dump. Stats like hours guns are fielded, kills by weapons, engagement ranges. Don't have to make it pretty you got the community to do that for you. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 43	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:27:00 - [33] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I know right?! If only Rattati had listened and given RR users a CQC option! Wailing and gnashing of teeth! Wait... Sarcasm aside though, I haven't been able to check out the RR changes yet, I've been getting the place ready for a cat (I got a kitty!!) But this isn't the end of the world. Rattati listened and buffed the ARR some, so if you want to be better in CQC, go check it out. I still prefer the old ARR now, with the lower damage and mag size, I'd trade the "buff" for the old ARR hip fire. After a few shots, the weapon goes from anti infantry to anti aircraft.
Darrius Smithmage 24	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:29:00 - [34] - Quote I'll use caldari no matter how many times it Nerf. I will to run railrifles,bolt pistols,cal assault and my state gunlogi and Myron o7 CalFW roleplayer I'm the calmando power ranger run from my megazord the state gunlogi >:D. Kirjuun Heiian Player.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 534	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:30:00 - [35] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I know right?! If only Rattati had listened and given RR users a CQC option! Wailing and gnashing of teeth! Wait... Sarcasm aside though, I haven't been able to check out the RR changes yet, I've been getting the place ready for a cat (I got a kitty!!) But this isn't the end of the world. Rattati listened and buffed the ARR some, so if you want to be better in CQC, go check it out. Let me run back to the supply depot so I can equip something .... I think I understand all the RR hate as I always run shields suits I been immune to most RRs. That's probley why I never seen a problem with it needing a balance because I'm unaffected by most of the fire. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1464	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:33:00 - [36] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit So rather than strive for actual balance, let's just make the rail rifle the old laser? cool beans ratman, good to know I can always count on you for another kick in the teeth. By the way I don't even like the rail rifle, despite me identifying as a caldari loyalist. I just so happen to be one of those people that tries to only use racial weapons with racial fits. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4752	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:35:00 - [37] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: I think you guys on the CPM that are trying to curve the weapon into a role. As a caldari player, there is no point for me to run up and hack an objective if I have to turn around and run 30m away so I can shot at the enemy. You guys been riding the Rail Riffle hate since it came out the door and forced a overnerf. I assume the Magsec SMG and the Assault Rail Rifle would be the Caldari tools for Close Quarter combat. They may not work as well as some of the other Faction's weapons, but they should be serviceable at close range. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Horizon Limit Nexus Balusa Horizon 105	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:37:00 - [38] - Quote It's fine at distance, controlled hipfire is also fine (4-5 shots). Cal scout vs Cal scout
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 534	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:38:00 - [39] - Quote I like the advanced Magsec but the standard SMG is by far a better option if I want to play serious. I only run the Magsec in pubs when I feel like getting owned a few times. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 437	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:38:00 - [40] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit So rather than strive for actual balance, let's just make the rail rifle the old laser? cool beans ratman, good to know I can always count on you for another kick in the teeth. By the way I don't even like the rail rifle, despite me identifying as a caldari loyalist. I just so happen to be one of those people that tries to only use racial weapons with racial fits. Do you want cqc, try magsec or go for ARR "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1464	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:38:00 - [41] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: I think you guys on the CPM that are trying to curve the weapon into a role. As a caldari player, there is no point for me to run up and hack an objective if I have to turn around and run 30m away so I can shot at the enemy. You guys been riding the Rail Riffle hate since it came out the door and forced a overnerf. I assume the Magsec SMG and the Assault Rail Rifle would be the Caldari tools for Close Quarter combat. They may not work as well as some of the other Faction's weapons, but they should be serviceable at close range. So instead of simply being able to enter a room to hack a point I should have to run back to a supply depot to grab an assault rail rifle and/or magsec? How is this not the laser rifle problem (y'know the reason that weapon rarely ever sees actual play?) Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4230	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:38:00 - [42] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: So rather than strive for actual balance, let's just make the rail rifle the old laser? cool beans ratman, good to know I can always count on you for another kick in the teeth. By the way I don't even like the rail rifle, despite me identifying as a caldari loyalist. I just so happen to be one of those people that tries to only use racial weapons with racial fits. If Rattati nerfed your weapon it is probably because it needed it. If you want a CQC weapon I suggest trying the ARR or magsec SMG. Better yet, try a race who specializes in CQC like the Gallente plasma rifle or shotgun. My advice to you, playa...
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1464	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:39:00 - [43] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: So rather than strive for actual balance, let's just make the rail rifle the old laser? cool beans ratman, good to know I can always count on you for another kick in the teeth. By the way I don't even like the rail rifle, despite me identifying as a caldari loyalist. I just so happen to be one of those people that tries to only use racial weapons with racial fits. If Rattati nerfed your weapon it is probably because it needed it. If you want a CQC weapon I suggest trying the ARR or magsec SMG. Better yet, try a race who specializes in CQC like the Gallente plasma rifle or shotgun. It's almost like you're missing the point on purpose. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4230	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:40:00 - [44] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: It's almost like you're missing the point on purpose. I must be using an RR... my 'b My advice to you, playa...
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 66	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:41:00 - [45] - Quote I tried the RR today, and I say this as someone who HATES the RR and am glad to see it be nerfed, I think it went a bit too far. I have 1 level in the weapon from when 1.7 came out, and after trying it out (I tried it again a few weeks ago and hated it) it seemed almost not worth using just because I can't reliably use it in CQC. I hear the assault variant is worth using, but with such an inverse effectiveness/range ratio, it seems like a laser rifle, but without the cool damage or inherent cache of lasers. I ran into a proto Cal Logi, and he started shooting at me, and after 2 seconds, he just decided to cloak up and try to run away. I chased him down and shot him dead, but the engagement took many seconds, and he didn't bother to fight back. I saw a few more examples after that as well. It is one thing to go into a fight and know you have an advantage, it's another to say "I WILL win this fight" because you know they are incapable of meaningful retaliation. I suppose it is the inverse of what I experience at range with my blaster rifles, but it kinda make me sad to see that poor logi just give up. I think the change is good, and I like how well it seems to work, but I dislike the extent to witch it happens. Perhaps nerf the max kick so that it only gets as bad as it does after around 20 rounds fired. Fire 15 rounds with fair accuracy, and at 20 it becomes bad and stays bad, but is not literally uncontrollable. Tone it down just enough so one's rounds go in the general direction of where one aims. Also, the bolt pistol is FINE. Like the changes, and it feels good, and balanced compared with the to other pistols. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 1302	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:42:00 - [46] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: finally the RR isnt the OP king of rifles no more That title always belonged to the CR since it's arrival and now it will be more pronounced . You CR users are next . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
Middas Betancore Kirjuun Heiian 123	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:42:00 - [47] - Quote My thoughts are after using it, yes its hipfire is very bad Puts it in the same realm as the las rifle, fine for range, but up close you will probably want to give about 1/3 of your mag off the hip then probably switch to a sidearm Most will simply use the AAR (expensive) which works in CQC well u can hip fire most of ur mag if u really have to I foresee a lot of ppl will stop using the RR Overall I find the nerf to be very harsh, but as a cal player....I can deal with it...just don't expect me to solo everyone with an sb-39 Sidenote: CQC hipfire has been used many times in combat and can never be fully discounted. When breaching a room a trained operatives hip accuracy will be a key factor in the chaotic fast paced firefights that ensue. The first British Army Commando manual strenuously impresses the importance of training in "1/4-3/4 hip stance" essentially snap off the hip shooting. We're not storming an embassy...we're in open combat (Perhaps not entirely relevant, no this isn't a simulation, but hipfire shouldnt be just dismissed) My final thought...it's an infantry rifle...not a support weapon Tone it down just a bit CEO-Kirjuun Heiian-Caldari Faction Warfare Corp Join our public chat channel. Kirjuun Heiian
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1464	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:44:00 - [48] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: It's almost like you're missing the point on purpose. I must be using an RR... my 'b There's other, better ways to balance something than to straight up break the arms of anyone who in this case tries to hipfire it. Lower magazine size for example can drastically affect a weapons performance at CQC, instead of having extended fire durations break your spine and point you at the skybox. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6794	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:44:00 - [49] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: I think you guys on the CPM that are trying to curve the weapon into a role. As a caldari player, there is no point for me to run up and hack an objective if I have to turn around and run 30m away so I can shot at the enemy. You guys been riding the Rail Riffle hate since it came out the door and forced a overnerf. I assume the Magsec SMG and the Assault Rail Rifle would be the Caldari tools for Close Quarter combat. They may not work as well as some of the other Faction's weapons, but they should be serviceable at close range. So instead of simply being able to enter a room to hack a point I should have to run back to a supply depot to grab an assault rail rifle and/or magsec? How is this not the laser rifle problem (y'know the reason that weapon rarely ever sees actual play?) Yeah, actually. That's exactly how it should work. I use the Gallente Assault Rifle and that's what I have to do every-time the battle changes to long range. Long range is where Caldari excel and rightly so, you should -ABSOLUTELY- have to go and switch weapons for CQC. Rail Rifle dominated at every range for the longest time and I'm glad they finally hit it's CQC ability even if it was almost an entire year later. { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 438	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:46:00 - [50] - Quote Middas Betancore wrote: My thoughts are after using it, yes its hipfire is very bad Puts it in the same realm as the las rifle, fine for range, but up close you will probably want to give about 1/3 of your mag off the hip then probably switch to a sidearm Most will simply use the AAR (expensive) which works in CQC well u can hip fire most of ur mag if u really have to I foresee a lot of ppl will stop using the RR Overall I find the nerf to be very harsh, but as a cal player....I can deal with it...just don't expect me to solo everyone with an sb-39 Sidenote: CQC hipfire has been used many times in combat and can never be fully discounted. When breaching a room a trained operatives hip accuracy will be a key factor in the chaotic fast paced firefights that ensue. The first British Army Commando manual strenuously impresses the importance of training in "1/4-3/4 hip stance" essentially snap off the hip shooting. We're not storming an embassy...we're in open combat (Perhaps not entirely relevant, no this isn't a simulation, but hipfire shouldnt be just dismissed) My final thought...it's an infantry rifle...not a support weapon Tone it down just a bit RR overperformed other rifles and big times, this nerf is simple and smart. RRs were made like medium to long range rifles, there is no need to have them strong in CQC too. If you want CQC use ARR or make build with MAGSEC, its easy. I dont know why is here that amount of tears, RR needed balance end of story. "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"

Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6794	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:46:00 - [51] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit Make these stats public on a web dump. Stats like hours guns are fielded, kills by weapons, engagement ranges. Don't have to make it pretty you got the community to do that for you. Lol, I've been arguing for that for months now. { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2054	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:47:00 - [52] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: I think you guys on the CPM that are trying to curve the weapon into a role. As a caldari player, there is no point for me to run up and hack an objective if I have to turn around and run 30m away so I can shot at the enemy. You guys been riding the Rail Riffle hate since it came out the door and forced a overnerf. I assume the Magsec SMG and the Assault Rail Rifle would be the Caldari tools for Close Quarter combat. They may not work as well as some of the other Faction's weapons, but they should be serviceable at close range. So instead of simply being able to enter a room to hack a point I should have to run back to a supply depot to grab an assault rail rifle and/or magsec? How is this not the laser rifle problem (y'know the reason that weapon rarely ever sees actual play?) Alright man, I feel your anger, but let's think about this for a second. If you have a laser rifle, you're job is not to go for the hack. Same with the sniper rifle. Your job is to stay back and provide cover for someone else to get the hack off. If your a laser rifle and your intentionally jumping into the thick of it, you deserve whats coming to you. This is no different from the RR. Now, if you have prof 5 in RR like I do, and you also want to be in the thick of it, you must then give up your RR and equip an ARR. But that means you're ability to accurately suppress at long range is now reduced, because you took the CQC option instead of the long range option. Rattati buffed the ARR, if you want to get into someones face with a RR, give the ARR a spin. But you shouldn't be able to slaughter at 74m and then turn around and tango with someone inside 20m with the same rifle and expect victory in both cases. Again, I've been busy with the kitty to log on and check the changes, but if Rattati followed my suggestions for the ARR (he listed some of them in the Balance Hotfix thread) then you have a very viable weapon to get up close with an ARR, meaning your RR sp isn't wasted. I don't see what the issue is bro. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1464	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:48:00 - [53] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Yeah, actually. That's exactly how it should work. I use the Gallente Assault Rifle and that's what I have to do every-time the battle changes to long range. Long range is where Caldari excel and rightly so, you should -ABSOLUTELY- have to go and switch weapons for CQC. Rail Rifle dominated at every range for the longest time and I'm glad they finally hit it's CQC ability even if it was almost an entire year later. Starting to feel like making flaylock / mass driver comparisons. Apparently the blind hatred for the RR greatly exceeds the desire to see balance done in reasonable measured steps. It's starting to sound a lot less like "This was a reasonable nerf" and a lot more like "I NEVER WANT TO SEE SOMEONE USE ONE OF THESE **ING GUNS AGAIN". Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Middas Betancore Kirjuun Heiian 123	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:48:00 - [54] - Quote Not saying RR was fine, just my initial thought is maybe it's a bit much We'll see CEO-Kirjuun Heiian-Caldari Faction Warfare Corp Join our public chat channel. Kirjuun Heiian
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 1302	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:49:00 - [55] - Quote postapo wastelander wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I keep telling you Cal brothers and sisters , we are this game punching bag ... they want Caldari at the bottom of the pole so they can take that same pole and shove it up our @$$es . It's sad , just sad . They should kill hip fire on all weapons . Honestly Bshate most of techie ingame is caldari ergo caldari is loved son of CCP for sure I think Cal Sentinels , Logistics , Sniper Rifles , De-pleated shield time on the extenders , One or Two low slots on most fits and now the RR would disagree with you . Gunnlogi and Cal dropships . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .*
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1464	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:50:00 - [56] - Quote postapo wastelander wrote: Middas Betancore wrote: My thoughts are after using it, yes its hipfire is very bad Puts it in the same realm as the las rifle, fine for range, but up close you will probably want to give about 1/3 of your mag off the hip then probably switch to a sidearm Most will simply use the AAR (expensive) which works in CQC well u can hip fire most of ur mag if u really have to I foresee a lot of ppl will stop using the RR Overall I find the nerf to be very harsh, but as a cal player....I can deal with it...just don't expect me to solo everyone with an sb-39 Sidenote: CQC hipfire has been used many times in combat and can never be fully discounted. When breaching a room a trained operatives hip accuracy will be a key factor in the chaotic fast paced firefights that ensue. The first British Army Commando manual strenuously impresses the importance of training in "1/4-3/4 hip stance" essentially snap off the hip shooting. We're not storming an embassy...we're in open combat (Perhaps not entirely relevant, no this isn't a simulation, but hipfire shouldnt be just dismissed) My final thought...it's an infantry rifle...not a support weapon Tone it down just a bit RR overperformed other rifles and big times, this nerf is simple and smart. RRs were made like medium to long range rifles, there is no need to have them strong in CQC too. If you want CQC use ARR or make build with MAGSEC, its easy. I dont know why is here that amount of tears, RR needed balance end of story. There's a difference between 'strong' and 'able to be used'. Yes the rail rifle needed tweaking - quadrupling the kick has overdone it. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
STYLIE77 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 215	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:54:00 - [57] - Quote Confirmed, half way through magazine you are facing the sky. AR and CR are NOTHING like this in terms of hip fire kick. It is ridiculous tbh...
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6795	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:58:00 - [58] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Yeah, actually. That's exactly how it should work. I use the Gallente Assault Rifle and that's what I have to do every-time the battle changes to long range. Long range is where Caldari excel and rightly so, you should -ABSOLUTELY- have to go and switch weapons for CQC. Rail Rifle dominated at every range for the longest time and I'm glad they finally hit it's CQC ability even if it was almost an entire year later. Starting to feel like making flaylock / mass driver comparisons. Apparently the blind hatred for the RR greatly exceeds the desire to see balance done in reasonable measured steps. It's starting to sound a lot less like "This was a reasonable nerf" and a lot more like "I NEVER WANT TO SEE SOMEONE USE ONE OF THESE ****ING GUNS AGAIN". Waaay back when it was first revealed they said that this thing's recoil would break the arms of the user unless they were in one of the power-suits we're using. It never -quite- felt like it was actually doing that. It's not blind hatred, it's just the way it should have worked from the very beginning. I got Gal Assault 5 and all my Assault Rifle skills to 5 but since the RR was released it always felt like it was a toss-up as to whether or not I'd win in CQC. And sure, you can compare the Flaylock/Mass Driver all you want. Both of those have at least -some- splash damage (the MD is really more for crowd control) but they're geared toward armor-users... In essence: CQC masters. They also have a pretty hefty flight time which gives a player time to get out of the way if they see it coming. They're absolutely nothing like a Rail Rifle in any way shape or form. Thing is dude, Rail Rifle -needs- to be bad at CQC so that the AR and the ARR can overshadow it. Otherwise there's really no benefit in having them. If the hipfire is terrible, that's fine - as long as the ADS mechanics are good or superb. There should be a definite disadvantage to the RR's power in CQC and from what I'm hearing, it sounds spot on. { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1853	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:58:00 - [59] - Quote And meanwhile, the most OP weapon of all, the CR, remains untouched. I don't get it.
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6795	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:59:00 - [60] - Quote STYLIE77 wrote: Confirmed, half way through magazine you are facing the sky. AR and CR are NOTHING like this in terms of hip fire kick. It is ridiculous tbh... -Because they are CQC weapons which depend on hipfire-................................ { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4234	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:01:00 - [61] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: And meanwhile, the most OP weapon of all, the CR, remains untouched. I don't get it. This confounds me too. The CR is good at many ranges, has a scope, excellent damage, respectable clip size, and low fitting requirements. It's good at just about everything it can do. Where is it's nerf? My advice to you, playa...
KenKaniff69 Fatal Absolution 2471	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:01:00 - [62] - Quote Glad to hear the good news. If I had it my way the hipfire crosshairs would be the size of your screen aswell. ?
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4753	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:01:00 - [63] - Quote Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: I know right?! If only Rattati had listened and given RR users a CQC option! Wailing and gnashing of teeth! Wait... Sarcasm aside though, I haven't been able to check out the RR changes yet, I've been getting the place ready for a cat (I got a kitty!!) But this isn't the end of the world. Rattati listened and buffed the ARR some, so if you want to be better in CQC, go check it out. I still prefer the old ARR now, with the lower damage and mag size, I'd trade the "buff" for the old ARR hip fire. After a few shots, the weapon goes from anti infantry to anti aircraft. So they nerfed the Assault Rail Rifle too? I would think that a variant that does not have a scope should be better in CQC than a weapon with a Scope. (The Assault is iron sites isn't it? I have not tried it, but I was under the impression that all Assault variants were Iron Site.) Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4234	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:03:00 - [64] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: So they nerfed the Assault Rail Rifle too? No. ARR got a slight damage increase, clip size increase, and the spool-up time was not increased. My advice to you, playa...
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1854	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:08:00 - [65] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: So they nerfed the Assault Rail Rifle too? No. ARR got a slight damage increase, clip size increase, and the spool-up time was not increased. I didn't catch that one. Thanks for pointing it out. There is still hope for the RR users amongst us, and FWIW, I always preferred the ARR.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4236	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:10:00 - [66] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: I didn't catch that one. Thanks for pointing it out. There is still hope for the RR users amongst us, and FWIW, I always preferred the ARR. Exact numbers... CCP Rattati wrote: ARR kept at same chargeup ARR clip increased from 42 to 58 ARR damage increased to 40 and 42, from 39 and 40 My advice to you, playa...
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 443	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:12:00 - [67] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: postapo wastelander wrote: Middas Betancore wrote: My thoughts are after using it, yes its hipfire is very bad Puts it in the same realm as the las rifle, fine for range, but up close you will probably want to give about 1/3 of your mag off the hip then probably switch to a sidearm Most will simply use the AAR (expensive) which works in CQC well u can hip fire most of ur mag if u really have to I foresee a lot of ppl will stop using the RR Overall I find the nerf to be very harsh, but as a cal player....I can deal with it...just don't expect me to solo everyone with an sb-39 Sidenote: CQC hipfire has been used many times in combat and can never be fully discounted. When breaching a room a trained operatives hip accuracy will be a key factor in the chaotic fast paced firefights that ensue. The first British Army Commando manual strenuously impresses the importance of training in "1/4-3/4 hip stance" essentially snap off the hip shooting. We're not storming an embassy...we're in open combat (Perhaps not entirely relevant, no this isn't a simulation, but hipfire shouldnt be just dismissed) My final thought...it's an infantry rifle...not a support weapon Tone it down just a bit RR overperformed other rifles and big times, this nerf is simple and smart. RRs were made like medium to long range rifles, there is no need to have them strong in CQC too. If you want CQC use ARR or make build with MAGSEC, its easy. I dont know why is here that amount of tears, RR needed balance end of story. There's a difference between 'strong' and 'able to be used'. Yes the rail rifle needed tweaking - quadrupling the kick has overdone it. U r kiddin' right, RR was powerfull even withou skillin' in to, hell i was beast for short/medium/long range. My spider sense tellin' me ypu just want YOUR RR OP nothing else. You should read info about weapon on market or read something about caldari lore on eve for sure. "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"
KenKaniff69 Fatal Absolution 2471	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:14:00 - [68] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: And meanwhile, the most OP weapon of all, the CR, remains untouched. I don't get it. This confounds me too. The CR is good at many ranges, has a scope, excellent damage, respectable clip size, and low fitting requirements. It's good at just about everything it can do. Where is it's nerf? this ?
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4753	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:15:00 - [69] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: I think you guys on the CPM that are trying to curve the weapon into a role. As a caldari player, there is no point for me to run up and hack an objective if I have to turn around and run 30m away so I can shot at the enemy. You guys been riding the Rail Riffle hate since it came out the door and forced a overnerf. I assume the Magsec SMG and the Assault Rail Rifle would be the Caldari tools for Close Quarter combat. They may not work as well as some of the other Faction's weapons, but they should be serviceable at close range. So instead of simply being able to enter a room to hack a point I should have to run back to a supply depot to grab an assault rail rifle and/or magsec? How is this not the laser rifle problem (y'know the reason that weapon rarely ever sees actual play?) Use the Magsec on Assault suits with your Rail Rifle, or use the Assault Rail Rifle in urban environments where you expect a lot of CQC action. Assault Rail Rifle for Cal Logi. Cal Scouts should run from CQC fights if they are not equipped for them. Cal Commando has options. Magsec should cover those times when you GÇ£have toGÇ¥ run in to hack, if you are primarily playing a ranged tactical approach. It is hard to believe that someone who runs Caldari fitting doctrines would be dissing the Laser Rifle. Those things a deadly against Shield suits. The best weapon in CQC and the best weapon at 60+ m should not be the same weapon! How can you possibly consider that to be balanced? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Dreis Shadowweaver Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 488	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:15:00 - [70] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit I just so happen to be one of those people that tries to only use racial weapons with racial fits. ^ Such hipster Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel I've only ever known 1.8... Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3

RayRay James Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 602	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:16:00 - [71] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: And meanwhile, the most OP weapon of all, the CR, remains untouched. I don't get it. This confounds me too. The CR is good at many ranges, has a scope, excellent damage, respectable clip size, and low fitting requirements. It's good at just about everything it can do. Where is it's nerf? If the data shows the the CR is OP after the RR balance it will get the hammer too. Honestly, though, I used the CR for a long time before switching to the ACR. Don't use the CR anymore and don't see a lot of people using it either. That being said and if memory serves, close range the CR wasn't great. If you managed to connect with it a close range, it damaged you, but the scope on it made it difficult at close range. It was more of a med to long range weapon while the ACR is a close to mid range weapon.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4753	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:17:00 - [72] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: So rather than strive for actual balance, let's just make the rail rifle the old laser? cool beans ratman, good to know I can always count on you for another kick in the teeth. By the way I don't even like the rail rifle, despite me identifying as a caldari loyalist. I just so happen to be one of those people that tries to only use racial weapons with racial fits. If Rattati nerfed your weapon it is probably because it needed it. If you want a CQC weapon I suggest trying the ARR or magsec SMG. Better yet, try a race who specializes in CQC like the Gallente plasma rifle or shotgun. It's almost like you're missing the point on purpose. The point being that you want your weapon to be the best at 5m, the best at 15m, the best at 30m, the best at 50m, and the best at 80m? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1465	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:19:00 - [73] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: So rather than strive for actual balance, let's just make the rail rifle the old laser? cool beans ratman, good to know I can always count on you for another kick in the teeth. By the way I don't even like the rail rifle, despite me identifying as a caldari loyalist. I just so happen to be one of those people that tries to only use racial weapons with racial fits. If Rattati nerfed your weapon it is probably because it needed it. If you want a CQC weapon I suggest trying the ARR or magsec SMG. Better yet, try a race who specializes in CQC like the Gallente plasma rifle or shotgun. It's almost like you're missing the point on purpose. The point being that you want your weapon to be the best at 5m, the best at 15m, the best at 30m, the best at 50m, and the best at 80m? Please put words I didn't actually say into my mouth, it really demonstrates the strength of your argument. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1854	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:24:00 - [74] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: The best weapon in CQC and the best weapon at 60+ m should not be the same weapon! How can you possibly consider that to be balanced? But that's just it.... The RR hasn't been the best weapon in CQC for a long time now. To the contrary, it's easily the worst of all the light weapons. The CR has always owned it in CQC, and the recent buffs to AR make that weapon clearly superior. Even the ScR is in a better place than the RR once you get used to the overheat mechanic/timing. And FWIW, I've used the RR almost exclusively since it's introduction and play both public and PC matches with it. Hell, I can kill more efficiently with sidarms now in CQC, the RR is that bad already.
Gaius Calinus Incarnation Soldiers 15	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:30:00 - [75] - Quote Thank you very much Rattati, you really managed to f* the shi out of the the Cal's, of all of us!!! Congratulation, target achieved!! But u want us to run racial suits, using the matching racial wapons, hmmm??? GTFO!!! Hail Caldari !! Hail to the Caldari State !!!
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 178	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:31:00 - [76] - Quote RR was nerfered and rightly so. Was it hit too hard? Perhaps but the numbers will tell and we can trust Rattati to adjust as need just like he has continuously done in the past. U were OP for a long time so I will just have to deal with the nerfing process The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6796	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:31:00 - [77] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: The best weapon in CQC and the best weapon at 60+ m should not be the same weapon! How can you possibly consider that to be balanced? But that's just it.... The RR hasn't been the best weapon in CQC for a long time now. To the contrary, it's easily the worst of all the light weapons. The CR has always owned it in CQC, and the recent buffs to AR make that weapon clearly superior (have you tried the BrAR or GEK/Duoville recently?). Even the ScR is in a better place than the RR once you get used to the overheat mechanic/timing. And FWIW, I've used the RR almost exclusively since it's introduction and play both public and PC matches with it. Hell, I can kill more efficiently with sidarms now in CQC, the RR is that bad already. Clearly, that's why Rattati took a look at the data, said it was the most over-used, and then nerfed it. Because it's the worst at CQC. { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 536	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:32:00 - [78] - Quote The ARR fails at CQC.. it does not have enough ammo to last most engagements. Gallente can always switch to a extra damped scout and go sneak past all the long range Caldari users. If that doesn't work they just bust the line with a Maddie. Edit : I feel bad for any newberries that pick caldari. After the hipfire kick happens on that frontline suit they will think they are playing skyward sword. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1465	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:35:00 - [79] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: The best weapon in CQC and the best weapon at 60+ m should not be the same weapon! How can you possibly consider that to be balanced? But that's just it.... The RR hasn't been the best weapon in CQC for a long time now. To the contrary, it's easily the worst of all the light weapons. The CR has always owned it in CQC, and the recent buffs to AR make that weapon clearly superior (have you tried the BrAR or GEK/Duoville recently?). Even the ScR is in a better place than the RR once you get used to the overheat mechanic/timing. And FWIW, I've used the RR almost exclusively since it's introduction and play both public and PC matches with it. Hell, I can kill more efficiently with sidarms now in CQC, the RR is that bad already. Clearly, that's why Rattati took a look at the data, said it was the most over-used, and then nerfed it. Because it's the worst at CQC. Round peg square hole stupid. The nerf it got wasn't the 'correct' one. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1857	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:40:00 - [80] - Quote Turn up your sarcasm sensitivity, Mina.

NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 536	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:41:00 - [81] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: I'd love to see the data that suggests anything to the contrary. Rattati has been the best thing to ever happen to Dust and he has my confidence, but I must admit that I'm skeptical on this one. Overused != Overpowered. I think when they fix the combat riffle they will have a small bomb detonate from the riffle if they look down sites at a long range target. Wait wait wait.. Maybe when weapons get to OP (By some magical formula triggered by CCP forum word cloud).. the audio from the rifle changes to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb_hqexKkw8 Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1465	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:41:00 - [82] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Turn up your sarcasm sensitivity, Mina. I think you missed Aeon's point. Sorry, misquoted. It was a reply to aeon not you lead. Edit: No, wait, I quoted exactly who I meant to. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 445	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:43:00 - [83] - Quote The 5 Stages of Loss and Grief 1. Denial and Isolation The first reaction to learning of terminal illness or death of a cherished loved one is to deny the reality of the situation. It is a normal reaction to rationalize overwhelming emotions. It is a defense mechanism that buffers the immediate shock. We block out the words and hide from the facts. This is a temporary response that carries us through the first wave of pain. 2. Anger As the masking effects of denial and isolation begin to wear, reality and its pain re-emerge. We are not ready. The intense emotion is deflected from our vulnerable core, redirected and expressed instead as anger. The anger may be aimed at inanimate objects, complete strangers, friends or family. Anger may be directed at our dying or deceased loved one. Rationally, we know the person is not to be blamed. Emotionally, however, we may resent the person for causing us pain or for leaving us. We feel guilty for being angry, and this makes us more angry. Remember, grieving is a personal process that has no time limit, nor one GÇ£rightGÇ¥ way to do it. The doctor who diagnosed the illness and was unable to cure the disease might become a convenient target. Health professionals deal with death and dying every day. That does not make them immune to the suffering of their patients or to those who grieve for them. Do not hesitate to ask your doctor to give you extra time or to explain just once more the details of your loved oneGÇÖs illness. Arrange a special appointment or ask that he telephone you at the end of his day. Ask for clear answers to your questions regarding medical diagnosis and treatment. Understand the options available to you. Take your time. 3. Bargaining The normal reaction to feelings of helplessness and vulnerability is often a need to regain controlGÇô If only we had sought medical attention soonerGÇª If only we got a second opinion from another doctorGÇª If only we had tried to be a better person toward themGÇª Secretly, we may make a deal with God or our higher power in an attempt to postpone the inevitable. This is a weaker line of defense to protect us from the painful reality. 4. Depression Two types of depression are associated with mourning. The first one is a reaction to practical implications relating to the loss. Sadness and regret predominate this type of depression. We worry about the costs and burial. We worry that, in our grief, we have spent less time with others that depend on us. This phase may be eased by simple clarification and reassurance. We may need a bit of helpful cooperation and a few kind words. The second type of depression is more subtle and, in a sense, perhaps more private. It is our quiet preparation to separate and to bid our loved one farewell. Sometimes all we really need is a hug. 5. Acceptance Reaching this stage of mourning is a gift not afforded to everyone. Death may be sudden and unexpected or we may never see beyond our anger or denial. It is not necessarily a mark of bravery to resist the inevitable and to deny ourselves the opportunity to make our peace. This phase is marked by withdrawal and calm. This is not a period of happiness and must be distinguished from depression. Loved ones that are terminally ill or aging appear to go through a final period of withdrawal. This is by no means a suggestion that they are aware of their own impending death or such, only that physical decline may be sufficient to produce a similar response. Their behavior implies that it is natural to reach a stage at which social interaction is limited. The dignity and grace shown by our dying loved ones may well be their last gift to us. Coping with loss is a ultimately a deeply personal and singular experience GÇö nobody can help you go through it more easily or understand all the emotions that youGÇÖre going through. But others can be there for you and help comfort you through this process. The best thing you can do is to allow yourself to feel the grief as it comes over you. Resisting it only will prolong the natural process of healing "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1465	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:43:00 - [84] - Quote ^Shitpost elsewhere please. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4760	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:47:00 - [85] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: I tried the RR today, and I say this as someone who HATES the RR and am glad to see it be nerfed, I think it went a bit too far. I have 1 level in the weapon from when 1.7 came out, and after trying it out (I tried it again a few weeks ago and hated it) it seemed almost not worth using just because I can't reliably use it in CQC. I hear the assault variant is worth using, but with such an inverse effectiveness/range ratio, it seems like a laser rifle, but without the cool damage or inherent cache of lasers. I ran into a proto Cal Logi, and he started shooting at me, and after 2 seconds, he just decided to cloak up and try to run away. I chased him down and shot him dead, but the engagement took many seconds, and he didn't bother to fight back. I saw a few more examples after that as well. It is one thing to go into a fight and know you have an advantage, it's another to say "I WILL win this fight" because you know they are incapable of meaningful retaliation. I suppose it is the inverse of what I experience at range with my blaster rifles, but it kinda make me sad to see that poor logi just give up. I think the change is good, and I like how well it seems to work, but I dislike the extent to witch it happens. Perhaps nerf the max kick so that it only gets as bad as it does after around 20 rounds fired. Fire 15 rounds with fair accuracy, and at 20 it becomes bad and stays bad, but is not literally uncontrollable. Tone it down just enough so one's rounds go in the general direction of where one aims. Also, the bolt pistol is FINE. Like the changes, and it feels good, and balanced compared with the to other pistols. A logi equipping a Rail Rifle or Sniper Rifle is doing so at their own risk. The Assault Rail Rifle is now the appropriate weapon for Cal Logi. And yes, my Logi fit does have a Rail Rifle, and yes, I will be changing it to another rifle now. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4291	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:48:00 - [86] - Quote So, ACR IS getting nerfed too, for the people who somehow missed that. CR got toned down a bit in delta also. They might still need some work but let's not pretend we've flaylocked the RR and the other rifles have been left untouched. Hell, the assault scrambler rifle had been hit worse than the RR until recently. One thing needs to be understood: The rail rifle SHOULD be, without question, no arguments, plain as day to everyone within a very short time of using it, the absolute worst weapon in CQC. Terrible to the point you would not consider it to be a smart decision to enter a builidng with it as your primary option. If that is not the case, then it's basically de facto OP because it outclasses everything at range with the possible exception of a skilled LR user in the narrow range of 90-105m. This has never been debatable, and so neither should it's usefulness in CQC (or lack thereof) have been in question. The argument made about swapping at supply depots in order to hack boils down to: "Hey, why can't I use this one weapon very effectively in every situation against every other weapon?" I'm sorry, but that's simply not the statement of someone objectively looking at weapon balance. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 536	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:52:00 - [87] - Quote Publish the statics each day, time fielded for items on battlefield. Kills and weapon damage values so we can do the calculations. Create a datadump from the SQL and upload that to a web layer. EDIT : Oh yeah, and times spawned for each item onto the battlefield. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1465	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:53:00 - [88] - Quote ^an infantry rifle should be effective throughout its range - look at the scrambler for example. If you want to nerf a rail rifles ability to perform in CQC hit its charge time or magazine size, because that has the most effect on its ability to act upon or react to close range threats. The kick changes make it unusably inaccurate two seconds in when hipfire is a thing that should be available to all weapons. As I've stated this is the exact same thing as the 'laser rifle problem', it doesn't see play simply because it is more often than not entirely useless as a weapon if you want to actually play the objective on domination or skirmish, which is outright bad design or an improperly targeted nerf. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6796	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:53:00 - [89] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Turn up your sarcasm sensitivity, Mina. I think you missed Aeon's point. Sorry, misquoted. It was a reply to aeon not you lead. Edit: No, wait, I quoted exactly who I meant to. The 'Correct' way to do things is always both relative and subjective. The sooner you understand that, the better off you'll be. { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 447	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:55:00 - [90] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: So, ACR IS getting nerfed too, for the people who somehow missed that. CR got toned down a bit in delta also. They might still need some work but let's not pretend we've flaylocked the RR and the other rifles have been left untouched. Hell, the assault scrambler rifle had been hit worse than the RR until recently. One thing needs to be understood: The rail rifle SHOULD be, without question, no arguments, plain as day to everyone within a very short time of using it, the absolute worst weapon in CQC. Terrible to the point you would not consider it to be a smart decision to enter a building with it as your primary option. If that is not the case, then it's basically de facto OP because it outclasses everything at range with the possible exception of a skilled LR user in the narrow range of 90-105m. This has never been debatable, and so neither should it's usefulness in CQC (or lack thereof) have been in question. The argument made about swapping at supply depots in order to hack boils down to: "Hey, why can't I use this one weapon very effectively in every situation against every other weapon?" I'm sorry, but that's simply not the statement of someone objectively looking at weapon balance. I still dont get why everyone crying, they can make a combo of RR and MAGSEC (if they are purists) or RR and SMG (if they are not purists) or put some skill in Calmando and have ARR with RR (if they want purism to extremes) Or try any other weaponry better for CQC like gallentean or matirian "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"

postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 447	Posted - 2014.10.28 18:58:00 - [91] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: ^Shitpost elsewhere please. Its something for you, because now you are officialy in our club (LR nerf, Flaylock nerf, AR nerf, CR nerf etc.), i found that usefull maybe you will feel same after that nonsence rage "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1858	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:01:00 - [92] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: One thing needs to be understood: The rail rifle SHOULD be, without question, no arguments, plain as day to everyone within a very short time of using it, the absolute worst weapon in CQC. Terrible to the point you would not consider it to be a smart decision to enter a building with it as your primary option. It already is.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1465	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:03:00 - [93] - Quote postapo wastelander wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ^Shitpost elsewhere please. Its something for you, because now you are officialy in our club (LR nerf, Flaylock nerf, AR nerf, CR nerf etc.), i found that usefull maybe you will feel same after that nonsence rage If you want to discuss the topic go ahead, if you want to be an idiot go post somewhere else. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 189	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:06:00 - [94] - Quote I am a little surprised they did not nerf both at the same time if the RR change is as effective as you guys say. I guess you make less mistakes with baby steps this will also help to shift public perception on rifle balance, but we all knew the CR was a rockstar with that damage profile, the rep changes however are suppose to increase shield tanking some how.?.? which would have a effect and that is probably the reason they did not change it. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 117	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:09:00 - [95] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit So rather than strive for actual balance, let's just make the rail rifle the old laser? cool beans ratman, good to know I can always count on you for another kick in the teeth. By the way I don't even like the rail rifle, despite me identifying as a caldari loyalist. I just so happen to be one of those people that tries to only use racial weapons with racial fits. Which rifle do you actually like, Mina? Maybe you can be convinced to use it and this whole situation won't feel so bad. Caldari pride themselves in their tech, but their resourcefulness is also something to be proud of. Which rifle feels most comfortable to you?
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 448	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:18:00 - [96] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: postapo wastelander wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ^Shitpost elsewhere please. Its something for you, because now you are officialy in our club (LR nerf, Flaylock nerf, AR nerf, CR nerf etc.), i found that usefull maybe you will feel same after that nonsence rage If you want to discuss the topic go ahead, if you want to be an idiot go post somewhere else. Still negative and still in rage, there is no reasson to discuss if you want just throwing dirt due something what isnt even real. I think im out, its better for both side, trust me it will be better have a great day and good game and dont be too negaitivistic about people who have different view of somethink, it making you really bitchy. Dont forget its just a game, why that stress and honestly before i leave i give you reassons why RR was OP. It was great weapon for long range. It was eve better weapon for medium range. And finaly that obscur CQC, dispersion with its dmg was too big what makes it really good for CQC situations. U told nerf ammo or rate, with its damage you need few shots to shoot anything (there is even combo with nano hives ergo nerf is futile), rate of fire to not make any difference aswell with its damage count. Finally by the lore Caladari using shielding and prefering LONG RANGED fights and why overcome lore itself?! You want be a purist, oki i understand but what is purism without understanding the core of you philosophy, answer is - its nothing. Only one thing is here ana that think you dont accept that balance because you want win due advantage and thats not too sporty vision of playing, just saying But oki i ahould go, then once more try to enjoy the game and dont be that bitchy about game, its still just a game. The unreal piece of virtual reality. Do you want be that ass to people who plwying game with you, just because something unreal?! Think about it "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1466	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:19:00 - [97] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Which rifle do you actually like, Mina? Maybe you can be convinced to use it and this whole situation won't feel so bad. Caldari pride themselves in their tech, but their resourcefulness is also something to be proud of. Which rifle feels most comfortable to you? Doesn't matter. Racial weaponry should be used with racial suits, and to that extent they should be capable of functioning at most tasks without needing special variants. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4760	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:20:00 - [98] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: It's almost like you're missing the point on purpose. I must be using an RR... my 'b There's other, better ways to balance something than to straight up break the arms of anyone who in this case tries to hipfire it. Lower magazine size for example can drastically affect a weapons performance at CQC, instead of having extended fire durations break your spine and point you at the skybox. Except that Dramatically lowered magazine size would also nerfs the Rail Rifle at range, and they did not want to nerf itGÇÖs ranged capabilities. Is your point that they over nerfed it, or are you upset because the longest ranged Rifle was your go-to weapon for CQC and now it does not work so good in CQC? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1466	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:25:00 - [99] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: It's almost like you're missing the point on purpose. I must be using an RR... my 'b There's other, better ways to balance something than to straight up break the arms of anyone who in this case tries to hipfire it. Lower magazine size for example can drastically affect a weapons performance at CQC, instead of having extended fire durations break your spine and point you at the skybox. Except that Dramatically lowered magazine size would also nerfs the Rail Rifle at range, and they did not want to nerf itGÇÖs ranged capabilities. Is your point that they over nerfed it, or are you upset because the longest ranged Rifle was your go-to weapon for CQC and now it does not work so good in CQC? The nerf was incorrectly targeted, charge time would have been by far the most appropriate, and failing that some combination of charge time, ammo capacity and kick. There's a big difference between tweaking a stat upwards (like kick) or quadrupling the effect of it. The goal should have been to make the rail less desirable to use at close quarters, not break it completely and I think that's the part that you've missed, it has been broken completely. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17531	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:29:00 - [100] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: RayRay James wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Yay for arbitrary decisions by devs completely ****ing over certain roles/weapons. Hipfiring more than 15 shots causes the rail rifle to kick uncontrollably, a full magazine has you facing the skybox. There is no reason why an infantry rifle should be unable to hipfire. Except that infantry should never be hip firing anyways. Hip firing is completely uncontrollable. You want accuracy, bring the gun up and sight it in. I think hip firing any weapon should be DRASTICALLY inaccurate vs using the scope. Also, they don't make "arbitrary" decisions on nerfs and buffs. They have access to untolds amount of data that we couldn't ever see. It shows every aspect of every weapon, kill, death, etc. They use that data to balance everything in the game. No one goes around saying "you know what? Let's f#ck over Rail Rifles and Scouts today, see how many tears we can collect." Except maybe LogiBro, he seem's like that kind of guy "I don't like that it can be used as a weapon in close quarters" Is by its definition arbitrary. Sure they may have data, but this isn't the first time they've broken something completely in trying to 'fix' it. Also, talking to a former military buddy - standard procedure is to hipfire several shots if you see a threat when breaching a room. Operating off of your 'logic' here, should hipfire dispersion/kick get so bad on every weapon when hipfired that they may as well fly out of our hands and murder our entire team? Real world logic need not apply, we're immortal mercenaries in suits of powered armor - our clones have '10hp' and they're highly enhanced, a commando could easily kill 40-80 (assuming non-superenhanced people have between 3-6 HP) individuals in one punch before myofibrils. A heavy can easily handle a 225k heavy machine gun in one hand while reloading it. Hipfiring should be incredibly easy, not 'gun becomes uncontrollable a second in'. More non game logic Said Rail Rifle would break most turret mounts and is completely unsuitable for standard infantry use. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked

Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 299	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:29:00 - [101] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: I think you guys on the CPM that are trying to curve the weapon into a role. As a caldari player, there is no point for me to run up and hack an objective if I have to turn around and run 30m away so I can shot at the enemy. You guys been riding the Rail Riffle hate since it came out the door and forced a overnerf. I run lr has same weakness have u heard of sidearms ? that's what I use no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1467	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:32:00 - [102] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: I think you guys on the CPM that are trying to curve the weapon into a role. As a caldari player, there is no point for me to run up and hack an objective if I have to turn around and run 30m away so I can shot at the enemy. You guys been riding the Rail Riffle hate since it came out the door and forced a overnerf. I run lr has same weakness have u heard of sidearms ? that's what I use So assuming caldari loadouts here (to get the most out of cal assault, and because each race should be using their respective weapons) we've got the bolt pistol with 4 shots and a crazy long chargeup... or we've got a magsec which has almost zero dispersion and really bad hit detection issues and it's also designed to be used at long ranges. So... what sidearms should we be using? Or are we just supposed to use variant weapons all the time? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4763	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:33:00 - [103] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Yeah, actually. That's exactly how it should work. I use the Gallente Assault Rifle and that's what I have to do every-time the battle changes to long range. Long range is where Caldari excel and rightly so, you should -ABSOLUTELY- have to go and switch weapons for CQC. Rail Rifle dominated at every range for the longest time and I'm glad they finally hit it's CQC ability even if it was almost an entire year later. Starting to feel like making flaylock / mass driver comparisons. Apparently the blind hatred for the RR greatly exceeds the desire to see balance done in reasonable measured steps. It's starting to sound a lot less like "This was a reasonable nerf" and a lot more like "I NEVER WANT TO SEE SOMEONE USE ONE OF THESE ****ING GUNS AGAIN". Exactly how often do you shoot the Rail Rifle from the hip? I only hip fired it about 10% of the time before the nerf. And that was when using it on a Logi where I did not have a sidearm to switch to in CQC. Post nerf I would not put a RR on a Logi, just as I would not put a Sniper Rifle or Laser Rifle on a Logi. If you have skills in RR then use an ARR on your logi suits. I only have Level 1 Rail Rifle Operation, because that is all I needed to make it the most powerful all round Rifle prior to the nerf, but I will still probably give the ARR a try. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1428	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:33:00 - [104] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: A little devil inside me wants to scream - About Time you scrubs!! However I know how it feels when CCP goes a little over board with nerfs. That being said the nerfs proposed are right in what they are meant to accomplish. I might have to give them a try to see how they feel as I want balance, not excessive nerfs. 15 shots (at RR rof and damage) is helluva long full auto sequence. The best players did know to release the trigger even before this tune down. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Taskanoss IMPERIAL INFANTRY GROUP 5	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:33:00 - [105] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Yay for arbitrary decisions by devs completely ****ing over certain roles/weapons. Hipfiring more than 15 shots causes the rail rifle to kick uncontrollably, a full magazine has you facing the skybox. There is no reason why an infantry rifle should be unable to hipfire. This is what you look like. I got your back Bro Beans!
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4763	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:35:00 - [106] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: postapo wastelander wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I keep telling you Cal brothers and sisters , we are this game punching bag ... they want Caldari at the bottom of the pole so they can take that same pole and shove it up our @$$es . It's sad , just sad . They should kill hip fire on all weapons . Honestly B*shate most of techie ingame is caldari ergo caldari is loved son of CCP for sure I think Cal Sentinels , Logistics , Sniper Rifles , De-pleated shield time on the extenders , One or Two low slots on most fits and now the RR would disagree with you . Gunnlogi and Cal dropships . Now that all suits will have native passive armor regen, there is nothing wrong with Cal Sentinels. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1467	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:36:00 - [107] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Yeah, actually. That's exactly how it should work. I use the Gallente Assault Rifle and that's what I have to do every-time the battle changes to long range. Long range is where Caldari excel and rightly so, you should -ABSOLUTELY- have to go and switch weapons for CQC. Rail Rifle dominated at every range for the longest time and I'm glad they finally hit it's CQC ability even if it was almost an entire year later. Starting to feel like making flaylock / mass driver comparisons. Apparently the blind hatred for the RR greatly exceeds the desire to see balance done in reasonable measured steps. It's starting to sound a lot less like "This was a reasonable nerf" and a lot more like "I NEVER WANT TO SEE SOMEONE USE ONE OF THESE **ING GUNS AGAIN". Exactly how often do you shoot the Rail Rifle from the hip? I only hip fired it about 10% of the time before the nerf. And that was when using it on a Logi where I did not have a sidearm to switch to in CQC. Post nerf I would not put a RR on a Logi, just as I would not put a Sniper Rifle or Laser Rifle on a Logi. If you have skills in RR then use an ARR on your logi suits. I only have Level 1 Rail Rifle Operation, because that is all I needed to make it the most powerful all round Rifle prior to the nerf, but I will still probably give the ARR a try. Honestly? about 30% of the time. I like being able to play the objective and I don't think anyone should be forced to resort to variant weapons to do so - Variants should be sidegrades not 'required if you don't want to be terrible'. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 299	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:37:00 - [108] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit Not like the masses havnt been telling you it was op since it came out i made several threads personally.. Anyway bitter comment aside good job ratatti g ******* g (serious not sarcasm ) no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4293	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:38:00 - [109] - Quote And neither should the best ranged weapon be viable in CQC. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1467	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:40:00 - [110] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: And neither should the best ranged weapon be viable in CQC. You are misrepresenting information into something that hasn't ever been said. It should be viable, it should be useable. It shouldn't be the best option. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4763	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:41:00 - [111] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: postapo wastelander wrote: Middas Betancore wrote: My thoughts are after using it, yes its hipfire is very bad Puts it in the same realm as the las rifle, fine for range, but up close you will probably want to give about 1/3 of your mag off the hip then probably switch to a sidearm Most will simply use the AAR (expensive) which works in CQC well u can hip fire most of ur mag if u really have to I foresee a lot of ppl will stop using the RR Overall I find the nerf to be very harsh, but as a cal player....I can deal with it...just don't expect me to solo everyone with an sb-39 Sidenote: CQC hipfire has been used many times in combat and can never be fully discounted. When breaching a room a trained operatives hip accuracy will be a key factor in the chaotic fast paced firefights that ensue. The first British Army Commando manual strenuously impresses the importance of training in "1/4-3/4 hip stance" essentially snap off the hip shooting. We're not storming an embassy...we're in open combat (Perhaps not entirely relevant, no this isn't a simulation, but hipfire shouldnt be just dismissed) My final thought...it's an infantry rifle...not a support weapon Tone it down just a bit RR overperformed other rifles and big times, this nerf is simple and smart. RRs were made like medium to long range rifles, there is no need to have them strong in CQC too. If you want CQC use ARR or make build with MAGSEC, its easy. I dont know why is here that amount of tears, RR needed balance end of story. There's a difference between 'strong' and 'able to be used'. Yes the rail rifle needed tweaking - quadrupling the kick has overdone it. Then your original post should have read something like this: Quote: The nerf to Rail Rifle hip fire was overdone. It went beyond making it difficult to use for hip fire and crossed the line into impossible to use from the hip. The kick is so great that it will quickly leave you looking at the skybox. The kick needs to be toned down to a somewhat more manageable level so that in those emergency situations when you find yourself in CQC unexpectedly you have some chance to defend yourself. Your original post sounded like you were upset that they nerfed it at all. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13887	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:41:00 - [112] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: And neither should the best ranged weapon be viable in CQC. 100% of the reason the ScR was reamed. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 189	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:43:00 - [113] - Quote lol so many tears because the strongest weapon in the game got a nerf lol.. I wonder how many of these guys were fot6m at least you guys didn't get your bonus given to every other race like gk suit rep. As far as side arms it must be nice to be able to complain about side arms with a positive damage profile that can actually be used as a racial set without damage loss. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 300	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:43:00 - [114] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: I think you guys on the CPM that are trying to curve the weapon into a role. As a caldari player, there is no point for me to run up and hack an objective if I have to turn around and run 30m away so I can shot at the enemy. You guys been riding the Rail Riffle hate since it came out the door and forced a overnerf. I assume the Magsec SMG and the Assault Rail Rifle would be the Caldari tools for Close Quarter combat. They may not work as well as some of the other Faction's weapons, but they should be serviceable at close range. So instead of simply being able to enter a room to hack a point I should have to run back to a supply depot to grab an assault rail rifle and/or magsec? How is this not the laser rifle problem (y'know the reason that weapon rarely ever sees actual play?) It sees plenty of play and will see more now that the ranged rifles are balanced ..long range support shouldn't close on the point ..we let the cqc pleb do that n if not SIDEARMS magsec works great smg is brilliant no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Lloyd Orfay Commando Perkone Caldari State 123	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:43:00 - [115] - Quote You're complaining about not being able to hipfire a precision weapon, which is exactly like complaining not being able to hipfire/use an anti tank ssniper rifle in CQC in reality. Get good or die trying. People that can't achieve greatness without exploitation don't deserve to exist. Enroll in scout erradication today.
Mike Ox Bigger Extremely Wicked 301	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:47:00 - [116] - Quote Sorry I'm late to the party... WTF happened today? I've never understood the hate on the RR as I have it with pro 5 and I have CR pro 3 and my CR rips people apart twice as fast...
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 457	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:53:00 - [117] - Quote I like how some people in this thread want the Caldari ASSAULT to play long range but those same people cry and ask for a AR range buff, but when you tell them they cant because the Gal are CQC brawler the bring up the "rifle means range". Also the people that say use the magsec don't know what they're talking about. To rattati: Now with the RR nerf when will you strip the commando's of my racial assault bonus since you know, the Gal, Amarr and Minmando all are equally effective with my weapon but my Cal assault is not equally effective with theirs?
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 300	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:53:00 - [118] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: I think you guys on the CPM that are trying to curve the weapon into a role. As a caldari player, there is no point for me to run up and hack an objective if I have to turn around and run 30m away so I can shot at the enemy. You guys been riding the Rail Riffle hate since it came out the door and forced a overnerf. I run lr has same weakness have u heard of sidearms ? that's what I use So assuming caldari loadouts here (to get the most out of cal assault, and because each race should be using their respective weapons) we've got the bolt pistol with 4 shots and a crazy long chargeup... or we've got a magsec which has almost zero dispersion and really bad hit detection issues and it's also designed to be used at long ranges. So... what sidearms should we be using? Or are we just supposed to use variant weapons all the time? Personally ide go with smg ..but if your a purest I guess magsec ....smg will likely serve you better though.. I was pushing for a nerf to rr charge time..would equally cripple it in cqc..but what's done is done .. no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4763	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:09:00 - [119] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: I think you guys on the CPM that are trying to curve the weapon into a role. As a caldari player, there is no point for me to run up and hack an objective if I have to turn around and run 30m away so I can shot at the enemy. You guys been riding the Rail Riffle hate since it came out the door and forced a overnerf. I run lr has same weakness have u heard of sidearms ? that's what I use So assuming caldari loadouts here (to get the most out of cal assault, and because each race should be using their respective weapons) we've got the bolt pistol with 4 shots and a crazy long chargeup... or we've got a magsec which has almost zero dispersion and really bad hit detection issues and it's also designed to be used at long ranges. So... what sidearms should we be using? Or are we just supposed to use variant weapons all the time? I would pair it with an SMG, but then I am not purist. You have to make some sacrifices to be a purist, no matter what race you run. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Dark Taboo 1776	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:22:00 - [120] - Quote Rail tech is, by New Eden lore, supposed to be great at a distance and horrible in cqc. The nerf was needed to keep it in line. It was too good and was stepping into the roles of other weaponry that cannot fight from long ranges like the assault rifle. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13889	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:22:00 - [121] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: I think you guys on the CPM that are trying to curve the weapon into a role. As a caldari player, there is no point for me to run up and hack an objective if I have to turn around and run 30m away so I can shot at the enemy. You guys been riding the Rail Riffle hate since it came out the door and forced a overnerf. I run lr has same weakness have u heard of sidearms ? that's what I use So assuming caldari loadouts here (to get the most out of cal assault, and because each race should be using their respective weapons) we've got the bolt pistol with 4 shots and a crazy long chargeup... or we've got a magsec which has almost zero dispersion and really bad hit detection issues and it's also designed to be used at long ranges. So... what sidearms should we be using? Or are we just supposed to use variant weapons all the time? I would pair it with an SMG, but then I am not purist. You have to make some sacrifices to be a purist, no matter what race you run. See but that doesn't make sense. Why would one races technology not enhance and accentuate the benefits of its own races technology. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1467	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:25:00 - [122] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Rail tech is, by New Eden lore, supposed to be great at a distance and horrible in cqc. The nerf was needed to keep it in line. It was too good and was stepping into the roles of other weaponry that cannot fight from long ranges like the assault rifle. The nerf has turned it from a standard service weapon into what essentially amounts to a specialist weapon. You can look back in the thread to Ceej Mantis' post and Fox Gaden's reply. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2586	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:33:00 - [123] - Quote RR is fine for me, I'm using it at extreme ranges though like it's intended and NOT in urban like three-quarter of you nutters are obsessed with. Just gun the suckers down before they reach your objective, or provide long-range support with your pushing team, works just fine. Also ARR is <3 "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 540	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:33:00 - [124] - Quote Good THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1862	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:34:00 - [125] - Quote Mike Ox Bigger wrote: Sorry I'm late to the party... WTF happened today? I've never understood the hate on the RR as I have it with pro 5 and I have CR pro 3 and my CR rips people apart twice as fast... Exactly! And that's saying nothing of the huge advantage the CR and its increased fire rate has on fast strafing scout and assault suits. To be a bit more blunt, just because the noobs haven't figured out the CR (and AR) are much more effective weapons doesn't mean the RR is OP. Overpopular != overpowered
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 538	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:40:00 - [126] - Quote I think we are beating a dead horse. . Ccp and the community rather the rail be a broken weapon for a while to pay for how popular th e weapon once was.. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2196	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:47:00 - [127] - Quote I'm not going to say that balance has been achieved but look at it like this, I have always advocated to go off of 10 years worth of tried and tested balance that EVE has. I know EVE is not an FPS but the weapon systems operate in the same manner. In EVE Railguns has by far the furthest range of any weapon, yet for this they are low dps and can only hit at range, get in close and they fail miserably. By contrast, the Gallente Blaster has some of the highest DPS in game, but used outside of point blank / close range, they also fail miserably. My major concern is CCP has never stated in black and white in very simple laid out terms what it is they want for the weapons in dust. We are slowly getting to a better situation but we keep having small hurdles along the way. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Gaius Calinus Incarnation Soldiers 16	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:49:00 - [128] - Quote postapo wastelander wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ^Shitpost elsewhere please. Its something for you, because now you are officialy in our club (LR nerf, Flaylock nerf, AR nerf, CR nerf etc.), i found that usefull maybe you will feel same after that nonsence rage Have you forgotten your medicine today, somehow??? The RR has been already nerfed since it's appearance on the field! This is the second hit! First they cried that it's too powerfull... nerfed... now that it's too accurate in CQC... nerfed... What will it be next time? Simply that its clip has more than one bullet and it should become something like a weaker sniper rifle? I suggest they cut the damage on the ScR by 30% and rise the heat-building by 20%... then rise the dispersion for longer targets by 20% after the second bullet and In addition, let's cut some 40% of the clip (don't come up with "RR has a bigger clip, you can really f* each bullet after the 15th in row )... But don't despair, you'll receive in exchange some "useful" bonus on reloading... That is where the RR is now, AH! Can't anybody JSTGDMF??? Hail Caldari !! Hail to the Caldari State !!!**
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 710	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:51:00 - [129] - Quote Gaius Calinus wrote: postapo wastelander wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ^Shitpost elsewhere please. Its something for you, because now you are officialy in our club (LR nerf, Flaylock nerf, AR nerf, CR nerf etc.), i found that usefull maybe you will feel same after that nonsence rage Have you forgotten your medicine today, somehow??? The RR has been already nerfed since it's appearance on the field! This is the second hit! First they cried that it's too powerfull... nerfed... now that it's too accurate in CQC... nerfed... What will it be next time? Simply that its clip has more than one bullet and it should become something like a weaker sniper rifle? I suggest they cut the damage on the ScR by 30% and rise the heat-building by 20%... then rise the dispersion for longer targets by 20% after the second bullet and In addition, let's cut some 40% of the clip (don't come up with "RR has a bigger clip, you can really f*** each bullet after the 15th in row )... But don't despair, you'll receive in exchange some "useful" bonus on reloading... That is where the RR is now, AH! Can't anybody JSTGDMF??? U mad bro? Swag-suit4lyfe!
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens Capital Punishment. 414	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:01:00 - [130] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: And meanwhile, the most OP weapon of all, the CR, remains untouched. I don't get it. This confounds me too. The CR is good at many ranges, has a scope, excellent damage, respectable clip size, and low fitting requirements. It's good at just about everything it can do. Where is it's nerf? this It's damage profile got changed. Been here since Mordus Private Trials Closed Beta Vet under 30 million SP ;-;

Gaius Calinus Incarnation Soldiers 16	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:01:00 - [131] - Quote Gaius Calinus wrote: Thank you very much Rattati, you really managed to f* the shi out of the the Cal's, of all of us!!! Congratulation, target achieved!! But u want us to run racial suits, using the matching racial wapons, hmmm??? GTFO!!! What I forgot to ask: Now that you took out each s* of the regular RR... What exactly is the coming OFFICER RAIL RIFLE worth using it?? Or having it at all??? It is NO ASSAULT RR... So? A nice officer weapon useful to tear some marvelous officer holes into the blue sky??? What will it be else as you made out of the RR nothing but a weaker sniper rifle? The legendary Ghalag's Modified Rail Rifle just won't have the hip-fire dispersion of the Kaalakiota RR?? I hope you'll come up with better things, don't bring up advantages as "officer" when a few days before each RR had the same abilities and you only cut them down! It won't be even worth the time u use to write and save the blog! But please, in the name of the Caldari, let us know... What will be with the Off RR?? Hail Caldari !! Hail to the Caldari State !!!**
Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries 646	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:06:00 - [132] - Quote the rr should not be viable in cqc just like the plasma rifle shouldn't be effective at range..
Gaius Calinus Incarnation Soldiers 16	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:06:00 - [133] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Gaius Calinus wrote: postapo wastelander wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ^Shitpost elsewhere please. Its something for you, because now you are officialy in our club (LR nerf, Flaylock nerf, AR nerf, CR nerf etc.), i found that usefull maybe you will feel same after that nonsence rage Have you forgotten your medicine today, somehow??? The RR has been already nerfed since it's appearance on the field! This is the second hit! First they cried that it's too powerfull... nerfed... now that it's too accurate in CQC... nerfed... What will it be next time? Simply that its clip has more than one bullet and it should become something like a weaker sniper rifle? I suggest they cut the damage on the ScR by 30% and rise the heat-building by 20%... then rise the dispersion for longer targets by 20% after the second bullet and In addition, let's cut some 40% of the clip (don't come up with "RR has a bigger clip, you can really f* each bullet after the 15th in row )... But don't despair, you'll receive in exchange some "useful" bonus on reloading... That is where the RR is now, AH! Can't anybody JSTGDMF??? U mad bro? Sorry man, I really think I'll be soon... They simply sfd us... Hail Caldari !! Hail to the Caldari State !!!**
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1864	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:07:00 - [134] - Quote Just played two rounds.... My early impressions: OMFG, the RR is useless now in CQC. It was hit with a nerfbat I've not seen since the Flaylock. You have about 3 bullets before the gun won't hit the broad side of a Madrugar. I didn't notice much of a difference with the ARR, but only used it a bit as I was focused on playing with the RR. I died 10 times -- four were to the Breach AR and six were to Shotguns. Time to warm up the SMG or ScP, I guess, or just bite the bullet and spend my SP on a Combat Rifle or Shotgun.
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens Capital Punishment. 414	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:10:00 - [135] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: ^an infantry rifle should be effective throughout its range - look at the scrambler for example. If you want to nerf a rail rifles ability to perform in CQC hit its charge time or magazine size, because that has the most effect on its ability to act upon or react to close range threats. The kick changes make it unusably inaccurate two seconds in when hipfire is a thing that should be available to all weapons. As I've stated this is the exact same thing as the 'laser rifle problem', it doesn't see play simply because it is more often than not entirely useless as a weapon if you want to actually play the objective on domination or skirmish, which is outright bad design or an improperly targeted nerf. It was stated long ago that the Rail Rifle should be the worse weapon at CQC yet you are still saying it should be usable at CQC? Many people would prefer the kick from hipfire rather than nerfing it's magazine size. Nerf magazine or charge time instead and the weapon would be underperforming at all ranges. Nerf it's CQC abilty and you are nerfing it's CQC abilty. You want to use Rails but be good at CQC? Use the ARR. Otherwise stop crying because your crutch got balanced. Been here since Mordus Private Trials Closed Beta Vet under 30 million SP ;-;
tander09 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 143	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:13:00 - [136] - Quote I think this problem is more about people who can't manage high kick weapons, rather than the gun being overnerfed. "If the gallente brainwash me again, they shall be purged by God himself!" -Nexle Skimfuse AMARRIAN4LYFE
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1864	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:20:00 - [137] - Quote lol Try it & report back. Please.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 539	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:24:00 - [138] - Quote The rail rifle is also not a specialty weapon unless we now fit specialty weapons to front line suits. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1469	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:26:00 - [139] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ^an infantry rifle should be effective throughout its range - look at the scrambler for example. If you want to nerf a rail rifles ability to perform in CQC hit its charge time or magazine size, because that has the most effect on its ability to act upon or react to close range threats. The kick changes make it unusably inaccurate two seconds in when hipfire is a thing that should be available to all weapons. As I've stated this is the exact same thing as the 'laser rifle problem', it doesn't see play simply because it is more often than not entirely useless as a weapon if you want to actually play the objective on domination or skirmish, which is outright bad design or an improperly targeted nerf. It was stated long ago that the Rail Rifle should be the worse weapon at CQC yet you are still saying it should be usable at CQC? Many people would prefer the kick from hipfire rather than nerfing it's magazine size. Nerf magazine or charge time instead and the weapon would be underperforming at all ranges. Nerf it's CQC abilty and you are nerfing it's CQC abilty. You want to use Rails but be good at CQC? Use the ARR. Otherwise stop crying because your crutch got balanced. Being "worse" doesn't mean it needs to be unusably bad. You are thinking about this in completely binary terms when there is no reason to be. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens Capital Punishment. 414	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:47:00 - [140] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Buwaro Draemon wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ^an infantry rifle should be effective throughout its range - look at the scrambler for example. If you want to nerf a rail rifles ability to perform in CQC hit its charge time or magazine size, because that has the most effect on its ability to act upon or react to close range threats. The kick changes make it unusably inaccurate two seconds in when hipfire is a thing that should be available to all weapons. As I've stated this is the exact same thing as the 'laser rifle problem', it doesn't see play simply because it is more often than not entirely useless as a weapon if you want to actually play the objective on domination or skirmish, which is outright bad design or an improperly targeted nerf. It was stated long ago that the Rail Rifle should be the worse weapon at CQC yet you are still saying it should be usable at CQC? Many people would prefer the kick from hipfire rather than nerfing it's magazine size. Nerf magazine or charge time instead and the weapon would be underperforming at all ranges. Nerf it's CQC abilty and you are nerfing it's CQC abilty. You want to use Rails but be good at CQC? Use the ARR. Otherwise stop crying because your crutch got balanced. Being "worse" doesn't mean it needs to be unusably bad. You are thinking about this in completely binary terms when there is no reason to be. Greasepalms wrote: the rr should not be viable in cqc just like the plasma rifle shouldn't be effective at range.. Viable: 5. practicable; workable: Optimal: 2. the greatest degree or best result obtained or obtainable under specific conditions. 3. most favorable or desirable; best: Huge massive major difference. Right now it is neither viable nor optimal. It should be SUB-optimal but still VIABLE. What you are saying is that it shouldn't be useable at all in CQC situations, which is entirely wrongheaded. Might as well just use sniper rifles then. Well I just got out of a game by trying it out. Went 24/4 with it. If you learn how to manage and control the kick you shouldn't have a problem with it. "Oh noes! I needz some skill to use a weapon" Been here since Mordus Private Trials Closed Beta Vet under 30 million SP ;-;

Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1868	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:59:00 - [141] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: What you are saying is that it shouldn't be useable at all in CQC situations, which is entirely wrongheaded. Might as well just use sniper rifles then. Well I just got out of a game by trying it out. Went 24/4 with it. If you learn how to manage and control the kick you shouldn't have a problem with it. "Oh noes! I needz some skill to use a weapon" Just curious.... How many of those kills were with the RR in CQC? What suits/weapons did you defeat?
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens Capital Punishment. 415	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:09:00 - [142] - Quote Most of them were medium to short. Fit here it is: 'Raven' Assault C-1 - SB-39 Rail Rifle -STD Magsec SMG -2 Enhanced shield extenders -1 Enhanced shield recharger -1 Enhanced Shield Regulator -Compact Nanohive -AV Nades about 18 of my kills were with the RR while the rest with the Magsec. Been here since Mordus Private Trials Closed Beta Vet under 30 million SP ;-;
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 166	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:14:00 - [143] - Quote Just played... Hip fire is still usable, but definitely not something efficient or dependable- let alone preferable to other weapons, which is exactly how it should've been all along. The charge time is finally a significant drawback of the weapon too... Rather than some quirky gimmick... Played a quick ambush in STD Caldari Assault with Rail Rifle + Bolt Pistol... 11 kills and 2 deaths... Hip-fired and killed about 4 people in a row inside a building... No joke. Then again, I have max skills... So maybe it's harder for somebody with less skills. It's not too bad in my opinion and it's not nearly as bad as the scrambler rifle last time I tried it. This is honestly just getting me excited about variants finally, bring them on CCP! I think one of the issues we're seeing in threads regarding rifle balance and parity is that the rail rifle works like some sorta pseudo-breach rifle when it's in a class in it's own. It might be neat if CCP could make a "long range rail rifle" variant for the other races in addition to the breach variant. I want a breach rail rifle to use with my triple damage modded Caldari Commando honestly...
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 166	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:18:00 - [144] - Quote I want to add that hipfire is not going to be very good against good players.. But... Those are good players... That's working as intended. They're supposed to beat you if they're better than you or using a weapon more ideal for the engagement... Also, if you can't aim like me, I would suggest aiming at their shins and let the recoil do the rest.
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 461	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:21:00 - [145] - Quote Tried that and state that. "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1469	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:21:00 - [146] - Quote The rail rifle is the breach variant rifle indy, that's supposed to be its thing. Amarr have Tactical, Minmatar have Burst and Gallente have Assault. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 166	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:30:00 - [147] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: The rail rifle is the breach variant rifle indy, that's supposed to be its thing. Amarr have Tactical, Minmatar have Burst and Gallente have Assault. I'm sorry. I was under the impression that breach weapons were usually more skill shot variants... Smaller magazines... Lower rates of fire... Massive damage... The naming covnvetions are a bit confusing sometimes, sorta made me wish they'd do away with the basic variants of each race's weapon the other day. So that way there wouldn't be a "normal rail rifle" or "normal scrambler rifle", that is... That's the impression the flaylock and the mass driver gave me anyways. Anyways, from what I've read the rail rifle is supposedly intended to do so-so damage over a longer range. Not really the same as other weapons with the breach label, I guess. I'm a bit out of the loop though.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 539	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:30:00 - [148] - Quote Hmm.. Maybe the sniper rifle is the new caldari CQC option. I know I just seen video recently of some one going on a kill streak with it. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1868	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:36:00 - [149] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: Most of them were medium to short. Fit here it is: 'Raven' Assault C-1 - SB-39 Rail Rifle -STD Magsec SMG -2 Enhanced shield extenders -1 Enhanced shield recharger -1 Enhanced Shield Regulator -Compact Nanohive -AV Nades about 18 of my kills were with the RR while the rest with the Magsec. I am having trouble believing we are using the same gun.... I just played two more games. Similar results. Using the proto version w/maxed out skills. I can't kill anyone in CQC unless they are complete noobs, or I polish them off with the first few bullets. The loss of accuracy and kick combine to make it shoot all over the place. The PC tonight should be interesting to say the least....
Duke Noobiam Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 233	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:38:00 - [150] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: And meanwhile, the most OP weapon of all, the CR, remains untouched. I don't get it. This confounds me too. The CR is good at many ranges, has a scope, excellent damage, respectable clip size, and low fitting requirements. It's good at just about everything it can do. Where is it's nerf? CR got min dispersal increase/nerf, it's noticeably less effective at long range hipfiring. How do you kill that which has no life?

Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1868	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:41:00 - [151] - Quote Duke Noobiam wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: And meanwhile, the most OP weapon of all, the CR, remains untouched. I don't get it. This confounds me too. The CR is good at many ranges, has a scope, excellent damage, respectable clip size, and low fitting requirements. It's good at just about everything it can do. Where is it's nerf? CR got min dispersal increase/nerf, it's noticeably less effective at long range hipfiring. Details, please.
GRIM GEAR 410	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:48:00 - [152] - Quote About time all them salty tears muhahahahahahaaha..... seriously the rail rifle should of had that hip fire dispersion when it was first released. I thought it was silly having the rifle with the longest range and great hip fire rolled into one, where's the disadvantages in that? Good work CCP also all you bolt pistol scrubs how you like them apples One day you will wake up and realize that time waits for no one.
Hakyou Brutor Capital Acquisitions LLC 1465	Posted - 2014.10.28 23:40:00 - [153] - Quote RayRay James wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Yay for arbitrary decisions by devs completely ****ing over certain roles/weapons. Hipfiring more than 15 shots causes the rail rifle to kick uncontrollably, a full magazine has you facing the skybox. There is no reason why an infantry rifle should be unable to hipfire. Except that infantry should never be hip firing anyways. Hip firing is completely uncontrollable. You want accuracy, bring the gun up and sight it in. Oh, I should aim down sights with my shotgun? HMG? How will I do no scope montages with my sniper rifle if I aim down sights?
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1172	Posted - 2014.10.28 23:43:00 - [154] - Quote Lol you don't seem like you have yet gotten used to the balanced Rail Rifle Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 541	Posted - 2014.10.28 23:51:00 - [155] - Quote Really, you want a riffle with that much kick on your front line suit.. which is going to be the first gun people use when they play caldari? Your adjusting the rail rifle for the sake of adjusting them... preset agenda. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
xavier zor G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 125	Posted - 2014.10.29 00:18:00 - [156] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit The Rail Rifle is an exremely awkward weapon. It hipfires fine from 0-20 metres if you counter its kick...but from 20-60 you can't really aim down sights because it turns to slow, and you cant hipfire because of the kick. Anything past 60 metres is dead scout ck.0 here!
RedPencil Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 111	Posted - 2014.10.29 00:20:00 - [157] - Quote " WE ALL DOOM !!! " " WE ALL DOOM !!! " " WE ALL DOOM !!! " " WE ALL DOOM !!! " Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
DDx77 Kinsho Swords Caldari State 10	Posted - 2014.10.29 00:30:00 - [158] - Quote I just used the ARR and it seems to have a similar increased kick Anyone else notice this? I'm still confused why they didn't feel increasing the charge up would solve the problem. Now this increased kick ( although manageable ) seems just very stupid It really feels like the gun is broken, I can't imagine they tested this vs increased charged up time because they would have immediately seen how embarassing the kick is. They also did not reduce CPU or PG
JIMvc2 The Wanga Empire Strikes Back 313	Posted - 2014.10.29 00:36:00 - [159] - Quote I'm proud that RR crap got nerf. Getting killed 100 meters by crapping Caldarians who just camp at the top and act all Tough dogs. Not any more. Your Bullshit ends today. Now if you excuse me, TIME TO TAKE OUT MY Plasma cannon, Flaylock, and RR to SPAM THE RR N00bs >:D MAG Raven vet 7 times. Favorite weapon F90 and Highest Kills 78 and 23 deaths.
Jack the Rlpper Balac's Disciples 10	Posted - 2014.10.29 00:36:00 - [160] - Quote First of all as a proto min assualt cr got its nerf they are **** towards shields no longer able to blow shields like a scrambler rifle but are wonerful for armour secondly proto rr maxed out and i love its nerf shouldnt be balet o cqc like an ar or cr use dang arr or magsec ok stop whinning and adapt ffs

Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1172	Posted - 2014.10.29 00:36:00 - [161] - Quote JIMvc2 wrote: I'm proud that RR crap got nerf. Getting killed 100 meters by crapping Caldarians who just camp at the top and act all Tough dogs. Not any more. Your Bullshit ends today. Now if you excuse me, TIME TO TAKE OUT MY Plasma cannon, Flaylock, and RR to SPAM THE RR N00bs >:D +1 Get some gun game RR scrubs Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1868	Posted - 2014.10.29 00:50:00 - [162] - Quote Zindorak wrote: JIMvc2 wrote: I'm proud that RR crap got nerf. Getting killed 100 meters by crapping Caldarians who just camp at the top and act all Tough dogs. Not any more. Your Bullshit ends today. Now if you excuse me, TIME TO TAKE OUT MY Plasma cannon, Flaylock, and RR to SPAM THE RR N00bs >:D +1 Get some gun game RR scrubs Except, of course, the RR nerf had nothing to do with ADS and everything to do with CQC. My ScP or SMG will be waiting, regardless. In the meantime, I'll be using my SP for Gun Game Proficiency 5.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1172	Posted - 2014.10.29 00:51:00 - [163] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Zindorak wrote: JIMvc2 wrote: I'm proud that RR crap got nerf. Getting killed 100 meters by crapping Caldarians who just camp at the top and act all Tough dogs. Not any more. Your Bullshit ends today. Now if you excuse me, TIME TO TAKE OUT MY Plasma cannon, Flaylock, and RR to SPAM THE RR N00bs >:D +1 Get some gun game RR scrubs Except, of course, the RR nerf had nothing to do with ADS and everything to do with CQC. My ScP or SMG will be waiting, regardless. In the meantime, I'll be using my SP for Gun Game Proficiency 5. i like scp Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1868	Posted - 2014.10.29 01:01:00 - [164] - Quote Me too. BrScP is quite nice. Dat headshot.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 541	Posted - 2014.10.29 01:05:00 - [165] - Quote Still trying to understand why people keep saying killing with the RR is a No skill weapon? Looks like about 5 million SP or so to me. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 429	Posted - 2014.10.29 02:20:00 - [166] - Quote Jaran Vilktar wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: The rail riffle is really really off today. I shut my playstation off because something is really wrong with it. Hopefully this is just a bad mistake. Oh btw, wait until you pull out the bolt pistol. It should be called the Slowmotion pistol Is the Bolt really that bad now? Glad I don't rush to join FOTM trends. I can only imagine the faces of those who fully skilled into a weapon that was simply waiting to get nerfed. Exactly! I'm so overjoyed! "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 429	Posted - 2014.10.29 02:24:00 - [167] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Still trying to understand why people keep saying killing with the RR is a No skill weapon? Looks like about 5 million SP or so to me. Maybe it's the "no sharpshooter skill requirement, but it has a scope" part? Maybe the "scoped fully auto weapon" part? Maybe the "great at range and hipfire at 10 meters" part? Maybe the "damage from no where because there's barely a round trace" part? I'm just snowballing here bro don't mind me?! I'm an AV player after all, and "gun game" mechanics escapes me. "Anybody order chaos?"
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1473	Posted - 2014.10.29 02:27:00 - [168] - Quote Honestly, even a short range efficacy nerf (like the laser) at 1-15 meters would have been preferable to uncontrollable kick. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 429	Posted - 2014.10.29 02:32:00 - [169] - Quote Man the caldari tears are flowing tonight lol! Welcome to the sandbox! Where sh*t is unfair, barely working, and fubar?! ..... oh wait.... that was all gallente weaponry for months!!! Let's do battle!! "Anybody order chaos?"
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 201	Posted - 2014.10.29 02:38:00 - [170] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit All that is left is the combat rifle and Light assault arms shall be full circle. Great job on the update *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos

Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 201	Posted - 2014.10.29 03:05:00 - [171] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: I like both of them so far it has limited their CQC ability nicely but they are still powerful and accurate in ADS It makes the Assault RR a better choice in close range fights... and will hopefully.. Have CCP consider a Bolt Pistol variant (iron sights, better RoF, less dmg) ??? I like this! I have always seen the bolt pistol as not even really needing a charge. Make it a close range hand cannon for the caldari. It really needs to add that missing element the Caldari need from a side arm. Something close range for when the enemy is too close to use something that needs to charge. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1274	Posted - 2014.10.29 05:36:00 - [172] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: So, ACR IS getting nerfed too, for the people who somehow missed that. CR got toned down a bit in delta also. They might still need some work but let's not pretend we've flaylocked the RR and the other rifles have been left untouched. Hell, the assault scrambler rifle had been hit worse than the RR until recently. One thing needs to be understood: The rail rifle SHOULD be, without question, no arguments, plain as day to everyone within a very short time of using it, the absolute worst weapon in CQC. Terrible to the point you would not consider it to be a smart decision to enter a building with it as your primary option. If that is not the case, then it's basically de facto OP because it outclasses everything at range with the possible exception of a skilled LR user in the narrow range of 90-105m. This has never been debatable, and so neither should it's usefulness in CQC (or lack thereof) have been in question. The argument made about swapping at supply depots in order to hack boils down to: "Hey, why can't I use this one weapon very effectively in every situation against every other weapon?" I'm sorry, but that's simply not the statement of someone objectively looking at weapon balance. John, I respect your opinion a lot....however the victory conditions of the game are for the most part dictated by closing to an objective, by definition bringing most of the fighting into CQC range. Makes no sense to put one racial line at such a clear disadvantage. This really boils down to poor weapon design for then RR and ARR and there nerf/buffs associated are only symptoms of the problem. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1274	Posted - 2014.10.29 05:46:00 - [173] - Quote Greasepalms wrote: the rr should not be viable in cqc just like the plasma rifle shouldn't be effective at range.. The difference is you are forced to engage in CQC to win matches for the most part. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1275	Posted - 2014.10.29 06:22:00 - [174] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Honestly, even a short range efficacy nerf (like the laser) at 1-15 meters would have been preferable to uncontrollable kick. People are taking a really wrong turn comparing the RR to the LR...it's indicitive of the bigger problem in the design. The RR has / is becoming basically a special weapon like the LR. The SCR is the general infantry weapon of the Amarr...not the LR. The RR is much more akin to a special or support weapon...truth be told it functions much more like a light machine-gun than a general purpose infantry weapon. Trying to make one weapon have extreme range, very good accuracy ADS, feature sustained fire, relatively high damage per shot, and be decent in CQC but not too strong is at it's base poor design. When you use weak charge mechanics and recoil as your "balance" tools on weapons like this it further backs the weapon into a narrow niche and makes it untenable as a general infantry weapon. The ARR is closer to how the basic RR should actually function if you want it to be closer to a general purpose infantry weapon. For "fixing" the RR I think I would actually prefer lowering the damage per shot, dropping recoil down to less than pre-1.9 nerf levels - particularly in ADS mode, and using similar charge mechanics as the small rail turrets where it prevents you from pre-charging but bring the charge time back to about .25 or .3sec. Honestly, even if you did this I'm not sure it would truly balance easily due to some fo the root design issues. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2067	Posted - 2014.10.29 06:31:00 - [175] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Honestly, even a short range efficacy nerf (like the laser) at 1-15 meters would have been preferable to uncontrollable kick. People are taking a really wrong turn comparing the RR to the LR...it's indicitive of the bigger problem in the design. The RR has / is becoming basically a special weapon like the LR. The SCR is the general infantry weapon of the Amarr...not the LR. The RR is much more akin to a special or support weapon...truth be told it functions much more like a light machine-gun than a general purpose infantry weapon. Trying to make one weapon have extreme range, very good accuracy ADS, feature sustained fire, relatively high damage per shot, and be decent in CQC but not too strong is at it's base poor design. When you use weak charge mechanics and recoil as your "balance" tools on weapons like this it further backs the weapon into a narrow niche and makes it untenable as a general infantry weapon. The ARR is closer to how the basic RR should actually function if you want it to be closer to a general purpose infantry weapon. For "fixing" the RR I think I would actually prefer lowering the damage per shot, dropping recoil down to less than pre-1.9 nerf levels - particularly in ADS mode, and using similar charge mechanics as the small rail turrets where it prevents you from pre-charging but bring the charge time back to about .25 or .3sec. Honestly, even if you did this I'm not sure it would truly balance easily due to some fo the root design issues. I thin the best thing for the RR is to make is function like the bolt pistol. It should hit hard, shoot slow, and charge between shots. On the ARR, that recoil needs to come way way down if it's supposed to be the CQC option. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1275	Posted - 2014.10.29 06:44:00 - [176] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Honestly, even a short range efficacy nerf (like the laser) at 1-15 meters would have been preferable to uncontrollable kick. People are taking a really wrong turn comparing the RR to the LR...it's indicitive of the bigger problem in the design. .... I thin the best thing for the RR is to make is function like the bolt pistol. It should hit hard, shoot slow, and charge between shots. On the ARR, that recoil needs to come way way down if it's supposed to be the CQC option. 1) If you make the RR like the bolt pistol...you just made a 'Tactical" variant basically. 2) That was why I noted recoil as a serious issue in your thread on the ARR earlier this week. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8148	Posted - 2014.10.29 07:13:00 - [177] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Man the caldari tears are flowing tonight lol! Welcome to the sandbox! Where sh*t is unfair, barely working, and fubar?! ..... oh wait.... that was all gallente weaponry for months!!! Let's do battle!! Stomped some Caldari Tonight in FW. Feels so nice to push a position filled with Camping Rail Rifling Caldari's only to see them die in aggony because they can't CQC Properly. GG Scrubs, now you have to know your range. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 620	Posted - 2014.10.29 07:28:00 - [178] - Quote I used to hip fire all the time because ads handling is too slow in cqc, or anything below 20m. Now I use the ARR, but miss my RR. I don't know which one I like more, so just bring both lol
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 620	Posted - 2014.10.29 07:32:00 - [179] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: Still trying to understand why people keep saying killing with the RR is a No skill weapon? Looks like about 5 million SP or so to me. Maybe it's the "no sharpshooter skill requirement, but it has a scope" part? Maybe the "scoped fully auto weapon" part? Maybe the "great at range and hipfire at 10 meters" part? Maybe the "damage from no where because there's barely a round trace" part? I'm just snowballing here bro don't mind me?! I'm an AV player after all, and "gun game" mechanics escapes me. The AR had a scope once... CCP took it off though.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 545	Posted - 2014.10.29 07:51:00 - [180] - Quote Still don't understand why you want to force people to use the ARR and your so hungry to do so you have to make the standard variant a specialty weapon. That kick is jarring and leads to bad play experience. Really, did everyone suck at the game so bad they couldn't handle the rail rifle? Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9561	Posted - 2014.10.29 08:12:00 - [181] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=178946&find=unread "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3330	Posted - 2014.10.29 08:18:00 - [182] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Honestly, even a short range efficacy nerf (like the laser) at 1-15 meters would have been preferable to uncontrollable kick. People are taking a really wrong turn comparing the RR to the LR...it's indicitive of the bigger problem in the design. The RR has / is becoming basically a special weapon like the LR. The SCR is the general infantry weapon of the Amarr...not the LR. The RR is much more akin to a special or support weapon...truth be told it functions much more like a light machine-gun than a general purpose infantry weapon. Trying to make one weapon have extreme range, very good accuracy ADS, feature sustained fire, relatively high damage per shot, and be decent in CQC but not too strong is at it's base poor design. When you use weak charge mechanics and recoil as your "balance" tools on weapons like this it further backs the weapon into a narrow niche and makes it untenable as a general infantry weapon. The ARR is closer to how the basic RR should actually function if you want it to be closer to a general purpose infantry weapon. For "fixing" the RR I think I would actually prefer lowering the damage per shot, dropping recoil down to less than pre-1.9 nerf levels - particularly in ADS mode, and using similar charge mechanics as the small rail turrets where it prevents you from pre-charging but bring the charge time back to about .25 or .3sec. Honestly, even if you did this I'm not sure it would truly balance easily due to some fo the root design issues. In a weapon that discourages burst fire and instead long sustained fire (because of the charge mechanic) trying to balance the gun around recoil is simply not going to work. If you want to make the hipfire recoil super high on the Breach Rail Rifle, that's fine, I get that, but for ADS it needs to be a stable weapon or it simply work work. if the gun has so much recoil that you have to stop shooting, recharge, and begin firing again just so you can get enough shots to land on the target, that's not gonna work. So for the Breach RR. boost the charge time, increase its stability when aiming, decrease stability while hip firing. This makes hipfire in CQC undesirable. If you want to prevent people from using ADS in CQC, decrease the rate at which they can rotate the weapon while scoped in, this is much how range is balance in EVE with Turret Tracking Speed. This means that if the enemy gets too close, hipfire is too inaccurate and even if the player aims down the sight, the enemy will be able to strafe faster than the RR can rotate while aiming and thus not very effective in CQC. You can fiddle with the fire rate to make it harder to use in CQC. Assault Rail Rifle simply needs to lessen the factors that make the weapon good at longer range, and lessen the factors that make it bad at short range. Decreased charge time, higher fire rate, less hipfire recoil, less range, ect. Assault variant of anything should focus on these factors to push the baseline stats of the weapon to a shorter range and higher DPS. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Son-Of A-Gun Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1363	Posted - 2014.10.29 09:33:00 - [183] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=178946&find=unread Just, curious to know (I've only read half way through so far, so maybe its in there, if so I'll retract this) if you factored in price differences into your calculations. There is quite a bit of difference between the prices of each weapon's standard variant and its racial equivalent variants. This could be the factor that is throwing off the balancing equation, and could be the reason why you guys have had such a hard time with balancing over the last two years. Assuming that this is a missing factor, it will cause an over buff roughly proportionate to the difference in price, the reverse is also true. Just a suggestion. {:)}{3GÇó>
Son-Of A-Gun Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1363	Posted - 2014.10.29 09:38:00 - [184] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=178946&find=unread Just, curious to know (I've only read half way through so far, so maybe its in there, if so I'll retract this) if you factored in price differences into your calculations. There is quite a bit of difference between the prices of each weapon's standard variant and its racial equivalent variants. This could be the factor that is throwing off the balancing equation, and could be the reason why you guys have had such a hard time with balancing over the last two years. Assuming that this is a missing factor, it will cause an over buff roughly proportionate to the difference in price, the reverse is also true. Just a suggestion. There are other price related factor as well that should be taken into account. I can think of about a half dozen of the top of my head. {:)}{3GÇó>
Son-Of A-Gun Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1363	Posted - 2014.10.29 09:56:00 - [185] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=178946&find=unread Just, curious to know (I've only read half way through so far, so maybe its in there, if so I'll retract this) if you factored in price differences into your calculations. There is quite a bit of difference between the prices of each weapon's standard variant and its racial equivalent variants. This could be the factor that is throwing off the balancing equation, and could be the reason why you guys have had such a hard time with balancing over the last two years. Assuming that this is a missing factor, it will cause an over buff roughly proportionate to the difference in price, the reverse is also true. Just a suggestion. There are other price related factor as well that should be taken into account. I can think of about a half dozen of the top of my head. Similarly, the range of a weapon should also carry special limiting factors, as 4 out of 5 suit types do not poses the capability (speed) to make use of shorter ranged weapons, exp: The breach AR is a really good medium range weapon and comparable in CQC. Now that this is the case we should see a dramatic fall off in the use of the std AR, but this may some what balance itself out due to the price difference between the two weapons. This should be watched closely. {:)}{3GÇó>
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Dark Taboo 1778	Posted - 2014.10.29 12:04:00 - [186] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Rail tech is, by New Eden lore, supposed to be great at a distance and horrible in cqc. The nerf was needed to keep it in line. It was too good and was stepping into the roles of other weaponry that cannot fight from long ranges like the assault rifle. The nerf has turned it from a standard service weapon into what essentially amounts to a specialist weapon. You can look back in the thread to Ceej Mantis' post and Fox Gaden's reply. Specialist weapons imply it can only do one thing and to that i sat you are right. This question should clear things up quite nicely. Can i kill efficiently with an assault rifle at 70+ meters? The answer is no. So then why must we assume that we ahould be able to kill efficiently with a rail rifle at less than say 20 or 30? Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 996	Posted - 2014.10.29 13:53:00 - [187] - Quote I know - no one will listen to me. In any case: Increase the delay before shot is acceptable. Increasing kick are not acceptable, it is a heavy rifle, its purpose - to shoot far and accurately. Please support fair play!
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1476	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:02:00 - [188] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Rail tech is, by New Eden lore, supposed to be great at a distance and horrible in cqc. The nerf was needed to keep it in line. It was too good and was stepping into the roles of other weaponry that cannot fight from long ranges like the assault rifle. The nerf has turned it from a standard service weapon into what essentially amounts to a specialist weapon. You can look back in the thread to Ceej Mantis' post and Fox Gaden's reply. Specialist weapons imply it can only do one thing and to that i sat you are right. This question should clear things up quite nicely. Can i kill efficiently with an assault rifle at 70+ meters? The answer is no. So then why must we assume that we ahould be able to kill efficiently with a rail rifle at less than say 20 or 30? Every rifle has is optimal and so they are specialized in that optimal role. Its not a bad thing. Players wanted variety; here it is. Each tech has its specialized role in the battlefield. Accept it. Its the way of New Eden. You're making an intentional fallacy here with the statement that the rail rifle killed efficiently at short ranges - it didn't, it was one of the worst weapons for short range. just because it was capable of getting the job done didn't mean it was 'efficient' at it. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6815	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:29:00 - [189] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Rail tech is, by New Eden lore, supposed to be great at a distance and horrible in cqc. The nerf was needed to keep it in line. It was too good and was stepping into the roles of other weaponry that cannot fight from long ranges like the assault rifle. The nerf has turned it from a standard service weapon into what essentially amounts to a specialist weapon. You can look back in the thread to Ceej Mantis' post and Fox Gaden's reply. Specialist weapons imply it can only do one thing and to that i sat you are right. This question should clear things up quite nicely. Can i kill efficiently with an assault rifle at 70+ meters? The answer is no. So then why must we assume that we ahould be able to kill efficiently with a rail rifle at less than say 20 or 30? Every rifle has is optimal and so they are specialized in that optimal role. Its not a bad thing. Players wanted variety; here it is. Each tech has its specialized role in the battlefield. Accept it. Its the way of New Eden. You're making an intentional fallacy here with the statement that the rail rifle killed efficiently at short ranges - it didn't, it was one of the worst weapons for short range. just because it was capable of getting the job done didn't mean it was 'efficient' at it. Do you have any evidence to back this up other than anecdotal evidence? Because that there is a logical fallacy as well. { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1481	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:36:00 - [190] - Quote ^I'm working on getting that from rattati. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

Gaius Calinus Incarnation Soldiers 16	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:01:00 - [191] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Still don't understand why you want to force people to use the ARR and your so hungry to do so you have to make the standard variant a specialty weapon. That kick is jarring and leads to bad play experience. Really, did everyone suck at the game so bad they couldn't handle the rail rifle? Unfortunately, yes, there are a lot... Exactly all those who are that happy to see the RR finally nerfed... But these are also those who complain that nobody fights at the front-line and that they have to push forward all alone... No problem at all, NOW they will really fight alone when there is no open field I can only repeat what Mina said before the RR was hit by the first nerf-bat: "It is NOT the RR, it's YOU!!" Short sentence but hits the point... o7 Sometimes it might be quite usefull to know what you want, it might become reality... Have fun Gallenteans while dying alone 70 m in front of us and you surely will We will take care of ourselves, as allways BTW... The ARR is really great, but I won't use it only because some "heroes" want me to... Hail Caldari !! Hail to the Caldari State !!!
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 431	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:10:00 - [192] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: Still trying to understand why people keep saying killing with the RR is a No skill weapon? Looks like about 5 million SP or so to me. Maybe it's the "no sharpshooter skill requirement, but it has a scope" part? Maybe the "scoped fully auto weapon" part? Maybe the "great at range and hipfire at 10 meters" part? Maybe the "damage from no where because there's barely a round trace" part? I'm just snowballing here bro don't mind me?! I'm an AV player after all, and "gun game" mechanics escapes me. The AR had a scope once... CCP took it off though. Ya think lol?!!! "Anybody order chaos?"
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 552	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:40:00 - [193] - Quote Swarm launcher was also a dumb fire rocket launcher at one point as well. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 552	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:41:00 - [194] - Quote You could also CQC with the Forge Gun. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 552	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:42:00 - [195] - Quote So to sum up this things.. CCP Feels that the Rail Rifle is to popular so they are hitting it hard with the nerf bat. Nothing else matters besides that fact. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4331	Posted - 2014.10.29 22:35:00 - [196] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: John, I respect your opinion a lot....however the victory conditions of the game are for the most part dictated by closing to an objective, by definition bringing most of the fighting into CQC range. Makes no sense to put one racial line at such a clear disadvantage. This really boils down to poor weapon design for then RR and ARR and there nerf/buffs associated are only symptoms of the problem. Thank you. What you are saying is100% true. But then we are needing to have a different and much larger-reaching discussion, right? Sticking to the subject of the OP, I think two key things to consider are this: 1) Nothing changed about the behavior of the weapon when ADS. Thus, it's primary purpose, to engage accurately at range, has also not changed. (For the most part... again, for the purposes of a streamlined discussion we have to exclude the peculiarities of a game where hipfire is entirely too good for most every weapon. You shouldn't realistically be able to hipfire someone from 80m). 2) The core of this whole thread comes down to whether or not you think the RR was "OK" or "way too good" in CQC. A large percentage of people, including the guy who has the most data and who's opinion matters the most, Rattati, say the latter. I tend to agree. My personal opinion is that, particularly in it's original form, it had entirely too high a DPS and not nearly enough drawbacks to offset it's strengths. It is relatively quiet, It has no fcking bullet trails (why it's the only rifle that doesn't simply boggles my mind to this day), and vastly superior range. I find myself saying "who the hell is shooting me" all the time because I can't see or hear anything. Which would be fine if I knew that if I could get in close, and be the one to dictate the engagement, I would have as big an advantage and win the large majority of the time. This was not the case.* TL;DR It honestly just boils down to that simple concept: Someone using another rifle should have the same advantage in CQC as the RR does at range. Now, if you would like to argue that there was a better way to do it, or that this was excessive, that too is a more easily debatable thing. However, the OP basically structured the argument on the premise that the RR was perfectly balanced and this was completely unnecessary. That it was actually more or less useless now, and also set up the CR as a straw man, conveniently disregarding that it was nerfed already and is being nerfed again. That's clearly either complete hyperbole or frankly a bunch of qq. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4332	Posted - 2014.10.29 22:39:00 - [197] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: So to sum up this things.. CCP Feels that the Rail Rifle is to popular so they are hitting it hard with the nerf bat. Nothing else matters besides that fact. I'd have to assume you are referring to Rattati's statment to the effect that the fine details are not as important because the rail rifle accounted for 50% of kills. 1 weapon accounting for essentially as many kills as all the others combined implies pretty strongly that it has a substantial advantage over the rest. If you have a more plausible explanation for that, I'd love to hear it. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1481	Posted - 2014.10.29 22:52:00 - [198] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: So to sum up this things.. CCP Feels that the Rail Rifle is to popular so they are hitting it hard with the nerf bat. Nothing else matters besides that fact. I'd have to assume you are referring to Rattati's statment to the effect that the fine details are not as important because the rail rifle accounted for 50% of kills. 1 weapon accounting for essentially as many kills as all the others combined implies pretty strongly that it has a substantial advantage over the rest. If you have a more plausible explanation for that, I'd love to hear it. Not necessarily, there are plenty of other reasons that it could be used so much. My belief is that quite simply it does the best at the most common and most 'ideal' engagement ranges. Like on spine delta standing on the end of the bridge you can prettymuch shoot to either the point above you, or the other end of the bridge while still being in fairly good cover and without having to move a whole lot. Where other people have to try and cross a decent chunk of open ground to try to get to you. Not because it's overperforming in CQC. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 281	Posted - 2014.10.30 00:48:00 - [199] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit Been saying this for SOOOOO long o.O As far as all you RR defenders -- please consider the following: CCP has confirmed that they know your KD/R aggregate data when using a certain weapon. (Ie. your Kd/r when your primary is a RR) CCP has confirmed they know at what ranges you kill and what your targets were holding as THEIR primaries. CCP gas confirmed that they know at what ranges you die and to which weapon at those ranges. Example:: RRsploit007 kills with RR at 75 meters = x. K/DR is y. Z% of victims were CR users. Z2% of victims were AR users. etc. CCP Rattati wrote: ...the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long... Get ready to lose some K/DR fellas...don't worry you'll adapt. The rest of us had to when you picked up your RRs in the first place.
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 51	Posted - 2014.10.30 00:50:00 - [200] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: So they nerfed the Assault Rail Rifle too? No. ARR got a slight damage increase, clip size increase, and the spool-up time was not increased. It received the recoil nerf also, but it's still okay.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13941	Posted - 2014.10.30 00:54:00 - [201] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: So to sum up this things.. CCP Feels that the Rail Rifle is to popular so they are hitting it hard with the nerf bat. Nothing else matters besides that fact. I'd have to assume you are referring to Rattati's statment to the effect that the fine details are not as important because the rail rifle accounted for 50% of kills. 1 weapon accounting for essentially as many kills as all the others combined implies pretty strongly that it has a substantial advantage over the rest. If you have a more plausible explanation for that, I'd love to hear it. I feel like that is somewhat of a fallacy. In a competitive genre like FPS players don't necessarily gravitate to a weapon because it has a "significant" advantage they do some because a weapon has "an advantage" that being said that disparity could be anything from game breaking RoF to slight percentage more damage per round or some such nonsense. Kind of feel like the nerf was heavy handed for watching clips of the game....not to say that it did not need some alterations like this....but perhaps not as great as this initial change. GÇ£How does this all work then?GÇ¥ GÇ£Like so Choirboy.GÇ¥ Mila to Kador, Sub Zero Club, Shoashu Sasaanko
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 166	Posted - 2014.10.30 01:39:00 - [202] - Quote I'm not liking the direction you guys are starting to go in... That is... homogenizing how rifles behave... Lowering the damage, lowering the charge time, reducing hip fire recoil... The rail rifle is a unique weapon, it fills a unique role, it has unique handling characteristics. It's very existence adds depth to the game... It'd be a shame to water that down for the sake of letting a few players hell bent on using only caldari gear do that... I personally use all the weapons, but I prefer the shield tanking that caldari suits offer. This reminds me of what I used to think of bolt pistols and assault rifles... I remember I once asked who the hell makes assault rifles with such short range and try to convince you their hipfire dispersion is a selling point...? It's pretty much a glorified sub machine as far as I'm concerned so I feel for Gallente players because I've only started finding my AR usable recently... I always thought it should have a bit more range- doesn't have to be good, but just something... But, in retrospect, it lowers the diversity and dynamism of the game... Same thing with the bolt pistol... I carried it as a back up pocket magnum and would use it against heavies around corners. It was not working as a long range pistol, it was working as a high alpha sidearm. Thankfully I practiced using the ion pistol for that so it's not too bad and I'll just charge shot heavies around corners. Although I wish we had a semi automatic light anti armor pistol, I'll have to settle for the SMG. To make the rail rifle fulfill that role would homogenize the game... To give the AR the same range would homogenize the game... And we're all here because we're not interested in games that lack depth... I hear lots of players express contempt for the homogenized gameplay of other shooters... Let the Rail Rifle settle a bit, I'm sure Ratatti will tune it as he sees necessary. This doesn't have to be all bad... Players will be easier to kill when they're rushed on roof tops.... We may get a Caldari Assault bonus that players will actually care about... I mean, if everybody hear feels that the recoil + charge is what keeps a rail rifle user from assaulting, then why not change the caldari assault to achieve that and make it possible? Why not let the caldari assault bonus lower recoil and the charge time so people can... assault? I mean, boom, we kill two birds with one stone.... Although... I will miss rapid reload... I've always gravitated towards rapid reload, probably from playing as a logi in closed beta... :( Honestly, it sounds like Caldari players would really love a breach combat rifle... Maybe CCP could introduce a black market with "hacked racial weapons" so players could still use just one race's weapons if it's such a big deal. Just imagine a reverse engineered plasma cannon that the Amarr have created and such.... but, with their own amarrian quirks. Or maybe a Caldari engineered scrambler rifle- all stainless steel with a big hefty battery on the side of it... Hell, CCP could sell these variants as weapon skins and make tons of MOOLAH! Anyways, I would say chill for now.
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 166	Posted - 2014.10.30 01:42:00 - [203] - Quote Although I must confess.... I'm not using the rail rifle anymore personally.
Ice Royal Glantix Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 13	Posted - 2014.10.30 02:05:00 - [204] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: So to sum up this things.. CCP Feels that the Rail Rifle is to popular so they are hitting it hard with the nerf bat. Nothing else matters besides that fact. I'd have to assume you are referring to Rattati's statment to the effect that the fine details are not as important because the rail rifle accounted for 50% of kills. 1 weapon accounting for essentially as many kills as all the others combined implies pretty strongly that it has a substantial advantage over the rest. If you have a more plausible explanation for that, I'd love to hear it. Not necessarily, there are plenty of other reasons that it could be used so much. My belief is that quite simply it does the best at the most common and most 'ideal' engagement ranges. Like on spine delta standing on the end of the bridge you can prettymuch shoot to either the point above you, or the other end of the bridge while still being in fairly good cover and without having to move a whole lot. Where other people have to try and cross a decent chunk of open ground to try to get to you. Not because it's overperforming in CQC. So if the RR does the best at some of the most ideal engagement ranges, why complain about the nerf? If you say it wasn't over performing in CQC, then clearly you were using it in ADS situations most of the time, and a nerf to it's CQC abilities only gimps you a small percentage of the time. Every weapon needs to have it's weakness. If you can point out a different weakness the rail rifle has then be my guest, but as of right now the only one I can think of is its CQC ability; and, before you say that it was not good in CQC before, the rail rifle before this change was nearly as good in CQC as the AR, but with an optimal range 20-30 meters farther than the AR the minor difference in CQC abilities was not enough to offset the advantage it has. "Don't be dead; be happy!"
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4334	Posted - 2014.10.30 02:06:00 - [205] - Quote True Adamance wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: So to sum up this things.. CCP Feels that the Rail Rifle is to popular so they are hitting it hard with the nerf bat. Nothing else matters besides that fact. I'd have to assume you are referring to Rattati's statment to the effect that the fine details are not as important because the rail rifle accounted for 50% of kills. 1 weapon accounting for essentially as many kills as all the others combined implies pretty strongly that it has a substantial advantage over the rest. If you have a more plausible explanation for that, I'd love to hear it. I feel like that is somewhat of a fallacy. In a competitive genre like FPS players don't necessarily gravitate to a weapon because it has a "significant" advantage they do some because a weapon has "an advantage" that being said that disparity could be anything from game breaking RoF to slight percentage more damage per round or some such nonsense. Kind of feel like the nerf was heavy handed for watching clips of the game....not to say that it did not need some alterations like this....but perhaps not as great as this initial change. And that's quite possibly true. Nobody ever accused CCP of being overly subtle about things. On the flip side, though, I think NextDark's statement that "well, it's just popular so they want to nerf it" is probably the biggest fallacy in the history of the Dust forums. CCP does a lot of things, but nerfing weapons based on forum QQ and nothing else is not one of them. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1413	Posted - 2014.10.30 10:34:00 - [206] - Quote It's barely nerfed ... you scrubs OMG I need a tissue I can't spam hipfire and auto-track someones head If your in a situation where enemies will be -30m in front of you.... don't use a Rail Rifle Or if your an insistent **** you could use the Assault variant... I've been having fun in CQC with my hipfire Rail Rifle, it kicks like a mule But can be used to put someone down if your quick about it, and has a new bonus ''Shoot for the Stars'' I find it hilarious to hipfire a few seconds then be aiming at the sky lol Overall, no complaints it functions well and has lost it's CQC edge.
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y Dark Taboo 232	Posted - 2014.10.30 10:39:00 - [207] - Quote It's about time they stabbed the rail rifle in the heart, hate that thing D; G.L.O.R.Y solider, Master of the Heavy (Amarr & Gallente)
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4779	Posted - 2014.10.30 11:08:00 - [208] - Quote What the Fox says: about RR hip fire Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12871	Posted - 2014.10.30 11:57:00 - [209] - Quote So umm... You have a problem with having to switch weapons when you change engagement range? You do realize it's worse for short range weapons, right? There is no sidearm with more range than my AR. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Evolution-7 The Rainbow Effect 668	Posted - 2014.10.30 12:06:00 - [210] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit What type of justification is that? YOUR ALL A BUNCH OF FUCKING CRYBABIES AND THE DEVS?.... completely worse.

postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 491	Posted - 2014.10.30 12:08:00 - [211] - Quote Evolution-7 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit What type of justification is that? Just read this boyo "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1490	Posted - 2014.10.30 14:35:00 - [212] - Quote Ice Royal Glantix wrote: So if the RR does the best at some of the most ideal engagement ranges, why complain about the nerf? If you say it wasn't over performing in CQC, then clearly you were using it in ADS situations most of the time, and a nerf to it's CQC abilities only gimps you a small percentage of the time. Every weapon needs to have it's weakness. If you can point out a different weakness the rail rifle has then be my guest, but as of right now the only one I can think of is its CQC ability; and, before you say that it was not good in CQC before, the rail rifle before this change was nearly as good in CQC as the AR, but with an optimal range 20-30 meters farther than the AR the minor difference in CQC abilities was not enough to offset the advantage it has. If its unbalanced at long range, why nerf its short range? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 504	Posted - 2014.10.30 14:36:00 - [213] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Ice Royal Glantix wrote: So if the RR does the best at some of the most ideal engagement ranges, why complain about the nerf? If you say it wasn't over performing in CQC, then clearly you were using it in ADS situations most of the time, and a nerf to it's CQC abilities only gimps you a small percentage of the time. Every weapon needs to have it's weakness. If you can point out a different weakness the rail rifle has then be my guest, but as of right now the only one I can think of is its CQC ability; and, before you say that it was not good in CQC before, the rail rifle before this change was nearly as good in CQC as the AR, but with an optimal range 20-30 meters farther than the AR the minor difference in CQC abilities was not enough to offset the advantage it has. If its unbalanced at long range, why nerf its short range? Unbalanced on long range..UNBALANCED ON LONG RANGE GTFO LIKE FOR REAL MINA "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1490	Posted - 2014.10.30 14:40:00 - [214] - Quote postapo wastelander wrote: Unbalanced on long range..UNBALANCED ON LONG RANGE GTFO LIKE FOR REAL MINA That's what the data provided suggests more than anything. I've been trying to get the key piece of information from rattati and that's 'what range are kills taking place at'. I think you're out of your depth in this conversation though. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1913	Posted - 2014.10.30 15:40:00 - [215] - Quote I think a lot of people are misinformed about what happened to the RR and ARR and its impact. For what it's worth, I did some testing last night. Here's my post from the rifle data thread used to justify the nerf. With apologies to the Asia players on my team for whom I was no help, I played around a bit more between PCs and queue-syncing FW tonight.... The ARR kick is different from the RR kick -- less vertical and more side to side. Making it even harder to control in CQC in relation. My test was as follows: Take ARR, aim at a spot on a wall, rip through entire clip of 58 rounds with hipfire, note where cursor landed. Repeat with RR clip of 42 rounds. Repeat with BrAR clip of 36 rounds. Repeat with AR clip of 60 rounds. Repeat with CR clip of 54 rounds (basic combat rifle). Repeat with ACR clip of 54 rounds (AUR BK-42 ACR). I did all this with proto versions of the weapons (except the CR as noted above) and repeated the tests a few times as kick has some random elements to it. Here's what I found: The RR kicked to vertical (about 120 degrees total, and I actually had to aim down in order to measure it). The kick was mostly vertical but had some small, random left to right kick (a few degrees). The ARR kicked to about 45 to 60 degrees, less than the RR. However, the kick was much more side-to-side than the RR, often going 15 or more degrees off target. (note this is MUCH more difficult to correct for as it's also seemingly random left or right versus the mostly-vertical and much-more-predictible kick of the RR -- I suspect that's why this weapon preforms as poorly as it does in CQC and is underperforming) The BrAr kicked about half the height of its hipfire dispersion (less than 5 degrees) and about the same left to right. The AR kicked about the height of its hipifire dispersion (about 5 degrees) and about half of that little left to right. The CR had about five pixels of rise (rapid button pushing was required and total rise was a degree or two), and a pixel or two of left to right. The ACR had about five pixels of rise (same as CR) and the same left-to-right. I think I finally understand why rifle CQC is dominated by the CR in PC, why I've preferred the BrAR since I picked it up a few weeks ago, and why the RR is so hard to control after a few shots -- the hell with DPS, it's all about the recoil profile and the resulting effective DPS. I was also a bit surprised to find the kick of the ARR even worse than the RR once I tested it and used it for a few rounds focusing on CQC encounters. ADS it's the same as it always was, but wow, the ARR may be even worse than the RR in terms of ability to put DPS on a target in CQC without stopping shooting for a third or a half of a second and allowing the gun to settle. That side to side kick is in random directions and very difficult to react to and control. No wonder I was the only one using it. lol I think I'm going to finally bite the bullet and add a CR to my proto rifle collection once I receive the sidearm event points. Even the basic one rocks if you time the bursts. Kind of reminded me of the Burst AR from way back....
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 552	Posted - 2014.10.30 16:47:00 - [216] - Quote The weapon is popular and being used a lot, not because it has a clear advantage in CQC. A player of the same skill with a CR will take out a RR users a high percentage of the time. The RR has a really nice scope and is Generic Basic Weapon for the race. Compared to the AR and CR variants where the scope doesn't look as nice tends to make the RR a clear choice for the majority of players. Is there another full auto weapon with a scope with out most of it's view taken away? The problem isn't RR over performing, it's just a popular weapon. Making less popular by adding horrible kick is my problem with a 4x kick modifier. You went to far. Plan and simple. By adding a large annoyance to the weapon takes away from the nice play experience. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
Aramis Madrigal Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 305	Posted - 2014.10.30 17:13:00 - [217] - Quote I think a lot of the complaints about the RR's kick is how it interacts with the spool up time. In order to get the recoil under control, you have to let up on the trigger, costing you precious time. This makes balancing through the addition of recoil somewhat tricky as the recoil will influence not only accuracy, but also the length of time your can output DPS without having to incur a time penalty. As it stands now, the added recoil seems a bit heavy handed, but not completely unreasonable. The RR should be at a disadvantage in CQC, but it shouldn't make someone completely ineffective at close range. I'm basing this opinion on the notion that each of the primary racial rifles should be generalist weapons with a fairly broad breadth of situations in which it is effective while maintaining distinct advantages and disadvantages based on particular circumstances. -Aramis
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 26	Posted - 2014.10.30 17:30:00 - [218] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit Players use the RR to cover an SP inbalance. IRL "creating space" will save your life, and in DUST helps with having weaker "tank", Recoil will only increase perimeter play, until the new player climbs out of the SP hole or picks up a CR. You need to tie the racial suit to the weapon, and I believe taking it even further with a Race, Racial Suit, Racial Weapon eficacy bonus will make your job and RPG better. good luck
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1491	Posted - 2014.10.30 17:34:00 - [219] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: I think a lot of people are misinformed about what happened to the RR and ARR and its impact. For what it's worth, I did some testing last night. Here's my post from the rifle data thread used to justify the nerf. With apologies to the Asia players on my team for whom I was no help, I played around a bit more between PCs and queue-syncing FW tonight.... The ARR kick is different from the RR kick -- less vertical and more side to side. Making it even harder to control in CQC in relation. My test was as follows: Take ARR, aim at a spot on a wall, rip through entire clip of 58 rounds with hipfire, note where cursor landed. Repeat with RR clip of 42 rounds. Repeat with BrAR clip of 36 rounds. Repeat with AR clip of 60 rounds. Repeat with CR clip of 54 rounds (basic combat rifle). Repeat with ACR clip of 54 rounds (AUR BK-42 ACR). I did all this with proto versions of the weapons (except the CR as noted above) and repeated the tests a few times as kick has some random elements to it. Here's what I found: The RR kicked to vertical (about 120 degrees total, and I actually had to aim down in order to measure it). The kick was mostly vertical but had some small, random left to right kick (a few degrees). The ARR kicked to about 45 to 60 degrees, less than the RR. However, the kick was much more side-to-side than the RR, often going 15 or more degrees off target. (note this is MUCH more difficult to correct for as it's also seemingly random left or right versus the mostly-vertical and much-more-predictible kick of the RR -- I suspect that's why this weapon preforms as poorly as it does in CQC and is underperforming) The BrAr kicked about half the height of its hipfire dispersion (less than 5 degrees) and about the same left to right. The AR kicked about the height of its hipifire dispersion (about 5 degrees) and about half of that little left to right. The CR had about five pixels of rise (rapid button pushing was required and total rise was a degree or two), and a pixel or two of left to right. The ACR had about five pixels of rise (same as CR) and the same left-to-right. I think I finally understand why rifle CQC is dominated by the CR in PC, why I've preferred the BrAR since I picked it up a few weeks ago, and why the RR is so hard to control after a few shots -- the hell with DPS, it's all about the recoil profile and the resulting effective DPS. I was also a bit surprised to find the kick of the ARR even worse than the RR once I tested it and used it for a few rounds focusing on CQC encounters. ADS it's the same as it always was, but wow, the ARR may be even worse than the RR in terms of ability to put DPS on a target in CQC without stopping shooting for a third or a half of a second and allowing the gun to settle. That side to side kick is in random directions and very difficult to react to and control. No wonder I was the only one using it. lol I think I'm going to finally bite the bullet and add a CR to my proto rifle collection once I receive the sidearm event points. Even the basic one rocks if you time the bursts. Kind of reminded me of the Burst AR from way back.... Thanks for this. I'm really interested in seeing how people think it's balanced for 2 rifles to kick 60 to 120 degrees, when almost every other either functionally doesn't kick, or kicks/disperses less than 5 degrees. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 552	Posted - 2014.10.30 17:56:00 - [220] - Quote GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: edit: I personally run DREN 90% of the time, because I want to help foster fun and not grief. When needed I could swap my RR for my CR, but last night I reverted back to use my DREN/AR and GEK38, because my DREN Caldari assault/RR combo is "useless" in any CQB situations. As of last night sadly, I removed the RR variants from all my suits. Clap Clap guys, I concede you guys have won. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.

Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1933	Posted - 2014.10.30 18:53:00 - [221] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Thanks for this. I'm really interested in seeing how people think it's balanced for 2 rifles to kick 60 to 120 degrees, when almost every other either functionally doesn't kick, or kicks/disperses less than 5 degrees. You are more than welcome. My jaw literally dropped when I did the test -- as it completely confirmed what I suspected having died innumerable times before the nerf in CQC when using the RR. Now, I get, and even agree, that the RR should be the worst gun at CQC. It already was. The more operative question, at least for me, is just because a weapon is overused doesn't necessarily mean it's overpowered. And, in fact, the numbers say it's not OP but is overused. Is that really a problem? Is increasing its CQC ineffectiveness really the way to affect the solution? These are not easy questions to answer, and I don't envy the job Rattati has to do to balance things, but should we REALLY be balancing by use rather than effectiveness?
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 553	Posted - 2014.10.31 19:10:00 - [222] - Quote I don't think this is something CPP wants to address. Talking to various CPM members they come off as if they have already done a great job and are happy with the results. It makes no sense that a Front Line weapon should be classed as a specialty weapon. Like I said I personal don't like the agenda here, I stand by that this item was rail roaded due to popularity not CQC effectiveness. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
sir RAVEN WING Mors Effera 36	Posted - 2014.10.31 19:33:00 - [223] - Quote This doesn't make the RR useless, it just makes it better to use weapons such a Magsec SMG at close range and use RRs at medium range. Creative with guns
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 1325	Posted - 2014.10.31 19:35:00 - [224] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Now that all suits will have native passive armor regen, there is nothing wrong with Cal Sentinels. Yeah , that one HP / sec will be a life saver ... slap on a reactive and the most you can have is 4 so I guess it will make some type of difference but get past those shields and you have the lowest armor count , couple that with the fact that it has plasma resistance but yet instill a NK can two swipe kill you and your facing those as well as SG's on a scout that will one shot SG those shields and NK that armor that has no resistance . Most people use RR's and CR's and couple that with the fact that the HMG is projectile and I guess you don't have anything to complain about . No projectile resistance but I guess you and everyone else who agrees with you are right and it shouldn't matter . A long range heavy can go a long way , I guess . Thank you Rattati , the DEV crew and the CPM for getting the job of 1.9 done .
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 29	Posted - 2014.10.31 19:52:00 - [225] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: True Adamance wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: So to sum up this things.. CCP Feels that the Rail Rifle is to popular so they are hitting it hard with the nerf bat. Nothing else matters besides that fact. I'd have to assume you are referring to Rattati's statment to the effect that the fine details are not as important because the rail rifle accounted for 50% of kills. 1 weapon accounting for essentially as many kills as all the others combined implies pretty strongly that it has a substantial advantage over the rest. If you have a more plausible explanation for that, I'd love to hear it. I feel like that is somewhat of a fallacy. In a competitive genre like FPS players don't necessarily gravitate to a weapon because it has a "significant" advantage they do some because a weapon has "an advantage" that being said that disparity could be anything from game breaking RoF to slight percentage more damage per round or some such nonsense. Kind of feel like the nerf was heavy handed for watching clips of the game....not to say that it did not need some alterations like this....but perhaps not as great as this initial change. And that's quite possibly true. Nobody ever accused CCP of being overly subtle about things. On the flip side, though, I think NextDark's statement that "well, it's just popular so they want to nerf it" is probably the biggest fallacy in the history of the Dust forums. CCP does a lot of things, but nerfing weapons based on forum QQ and nothing else is not one of them. Nothing: CCP has nerfed the weapon that is carried in majority. This majority will now pay for a respec? By definition this is a pile of steaming something.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 200	Posted - 2014.10.31 20:15:00 - [226] - Quote The progression is still way to low it and the charge time is just as ineffectual as it has always been apart from the sunset you see if you hold the trigger long after you kill someone there was no change. 21 day fast started 10/31 in respect to the discipline of Gahndi. Wizard Talk


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