DUST Search - Rail rifle hit by excessive overnerf

MINA Longstrike wrote:

Buwaro Draemon wrote:

MINA Longstrike wrote:

^an infantry rifle should be effective throughout its range - look at the scrambler for example. If you want to nerf a rail rifles ability to perform in CQC hit its charge time or magazine size, because that has the most effect on its ability to act upon or react to close range threats. The kick changes make it unusably inaccurate two seconds in when hipfire is a thing that should be available to all weapons.

As I've stated this is the exact same thing as the 'laser rifle problem', it doesn't see play simply because it is more often than not entirely useless as a weapon if you want to actually play the objective on domination or skirmish, which is outright bad design or an improperly targeted nerf.

It was stated long ago that the Rail Rifle should be the worse weapon at CQC yet you are still saying it should be usable at CQC?

Many people would prefer the kick from hipfire rather than nerfing it's magazine size.
Nerf magazine or charge time instead and the weapon would be underperforming at all ranges.

Nerf it's CQC abilty and you are nerfing it's CQC abilty.

You want to use Rails but be good at CQC? Use the ARR.

Otherwise stop crying because your crutch got balanced.

Being "worse" doesn't mean it needs to be unusably bad. You are thinking about this in completely binary terms when there is no reason to be.

Greasepalms wrote:

the rr should not be viable in cqc just like the plasma rifle shouldn't be effective at range..

Viable:
5. practicable; workable:

Optimal:
2. the greatest degree or best result obtained or obtainable under specific conditions.
3. most favorable or desirable; best:

Huge massive major difference. Right now it is neither viable nor optimal. It should be SUB-optimal but still VIABLE.

What you are saying is that it shouldn't be useable *at all* in CQC situations, which is entirely wrongheaded. Might as well just use sniper rifles then.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13889	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:22:00 - [121] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: I think you guys on the CPM that are trying to curve the weapon into a role. As a caldari player, there is no point for me to run up and hack an objective if I have to turn around and run 30m away so I can shot at the enemy. You guys been riding the Rail Riffle hate since it came out the door and forced a overnerf. I run lr has same weakness have u heard of sidearms ? that's what I use So assuming caldari loadouts here (to get the most out of cal assault, and because each race should be using their respective weapons) we've got the bolt pistol with 4 shots and a crazy long chargeup... or we've got a magsec which has almost zero dispersion and really bad hit detection issues and it's also designed to be used at long ranges. So... what sidearms should we be using? Or are we just supposed to use variant weapons all the time? I would pair it with an SMG, but then I am not purist. You have to make some sacrifices to be a purist, no matter what race you run. See but that doesn't make sense. Why would one races technology not enhance and accentuate the benefits of its own races technology. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1467	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:25:00 - [122] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Rail tech is, by New Eden lore, supposed to be great at a distance and horrible in cqc. The nerf was needed to keep it in line. It was too good and was stepping into the roles of other weaponry that cannot fight from long ranges like the assault rifle. The nerf has turned it from a standard service weapon into what essentially amounts to a specialist weapon. You can look back in the thread to Ceej Mantis' post and Fox Gaden's reply. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2586	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:33:00 - [123] - Quote RR is fine for me, I'm using it at extreme ranges though like it's intended and NOT in urban like three-quarter of you nutters are obsessed with. Just gun the suckers down before they reach your objective, or provide long-range support with your pushing team, works just fine. Also ARR is <3 "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 540	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:33:00 - [124] - Quote Good THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1862	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:34:00 - [125] - Quote Mike Ox Bigger wrote: Sorry I'm late to the party... WTF happened today? I've never understood the hate on the RR as I have it with pro 5 and I have CR pro 3 and my CR rips people apart twice as fast... Exactly! And that's saying nothing of the huge advantage the CR and its increased fire rate has on fast strafing scout and assault suits. To be a bit more blunt, just because the noobs haven't figured out the CR (and AR) are much more effective weapons doesn't mean the RR is OP. Overpopular != overpowered
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 538	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:40:00 - [126] - Quote I think we are beating a dead horse. . Ccp and the community rather the rail be a broken weapon for a while to pay for how popular th e weapon once was.. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2196	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:47:00 - [127] - Quote I'm not going to say that balance has been achieved but look at it like this, I have always advocated to go off of 10 years worth of tried and tested balance that EVE has. I know EVE is not an FPS but the weapon systems operate in the same manner. In EVE Railguns has by far the furthest range of any weapon, yet for this they are low dps and can only hit at range, get in close and they fail miserably. By contrast, the Gallente Blaster has some of the highest DPS in game, but used outside of point blank / close range, they also fail miserably. My major concern is CCP has never stated in black and white in very simple laid out terms what it is they want for the weapons in dust. We are slowly getting to a better situation but we keep having small hurdles along the way. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Gaius Calinus Incarnation Soldiers 16	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:49:00 - [128] - Quote postapo wastelander wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ^Shitpost elsewhere please. Its something for you, because now you are officialy in our club (LR nerf, Flaylock nerf, AR nerf, CR nerf etc.), i found that usefull maybe you will feel same after that nonsence rage Have you forgotten your medicine today, somehow??? The RR has been already nerfed since it's appearance on the field! This is the second hit! First they cried that it's too powerfull... nerfed... now that it's too accurate in CQC... nerfed... What will it be next time? Simply that its clip has more than one bullet and it should become something like a weaker sniper rifle? I suggest they cut the damage on the ScR by 30% and rise the heat-building by 20%... then rise the dispersion for longer targets by 20% after the second bullet and In addition, let's cut some 40% of the clip (don't come up with "RR has a bigger clip, you can really f* each bullet after the 15th in row )... But don't despair, you'll receive in exchange some "useful" bonus on reloading... That is where the RR is now, AH! Can't anybody JSTGDMF??? Hail Caldari !! Hail to the Caldari State !!!**
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 710	Posted - 2014.10.28 20:51:00 - [129] - Quote Gaius Calinus wrote: postapo wastelander wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ^Shitpost elsewhere please. Its something for you, because now you are officialy in our club (LR nerf, Flaylock nerf, AR nerf, CR nerf etc.), i found that usefull maybe you will feel same after that nonsence rage Have you forgotten your medicine today, somehow??? The RR has been already nerfed since it's appearance on the field! This is the second hit! First they cried that it's too powerfull... nerfed... now that it's too accurate in CQC... nerfed... What will it be next time? Simply that its clip has more than one bullet and it should become something like a weaker sniper rifle? I suggest they cut the damage on the ScR by 30% and rise the heat-building by 20%... then rise the dispersion for longer targets by 20% after the second bullet and In addition, let's cut some 40% of the clip (don't come up with "RR has a bigger clip, you can really f*** each bullet after the 15th in row )... But don't despair, you'll receive in exchange some "useful" bonus on reloading... That is where the RR is now, AH! Can't anybody JSTGDMF??? U mad bro? Swag-suit4lyfe!
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens Capital Punishment. 414	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:01:00 - [130] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: And meanwhile, the most OP weapon of all, the CR, remains untouched. I don't get it. This confounds me too. The CR is good at many ranges, has a scope, excellent damage, respectable clip size, and low fitting requirements. It's good at just about everything it can do. Where is it's nerf? this It's damage profile got changed. Been here since Mordus Private Trials Closed Beta Vet under 30 million SP ;-;

Gaius Calinus Incarnation Soldiers 16	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:01:00 - [131] - Quote Gaius Calinus wrote: Thank you very much Rattati, you really managed to f* the shi out of the the Cal's, of all of us!!! Congratulation, target achieved!! But u want us to run racial suits, using the matching racial wapons, hmmm??? GTFO!!! What I forgot to ask: Now that you took out each s* of the regular RR... What exactly is the coming OFFICER RAIL RIFLE worth using it?? Or having it at all??? It is NO ASSAULT RR... So? A nice officer weapon useful to tear some marvelous officer holes into the blue sky??? What will it be else as you made out of the RR nothing but a weaker sniper rifle? The legendary Ghalag's Modified Rail Rifle just won't have the hip-fire dispersion of the Kaalakiota RR?? I hope you'll come up with better things, don't bring up advantages as "officer" when a few days before each RR had the same abilities and you only cut them down! It won't be even worth the time u use to write and save the blog! But please, in the name of the Caldari, let us know... What will be with the Off RR?? Hail Caldari !! Hail to the Caldari State !!!**
Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries 646	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:06:00 - [132] - Quote the rr should not be viable in cqc just like the plasma rifle shouldn't be effective at range..
Gaius Calinus Incarnation Soldiers 16	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:06:00 - [133] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Gaius Calinus wrote: postapo wastelander wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ^Shitpost elsewhere please. Its something for you, because now you are officialy in our club (LR nerf, Flaylock nerf, AR nerf, CR nerf etc.), i found that usefull maybe you will feel same after that nonsence rage Have you forgotten your medicine today, somehow??? The RR has been already nerfed since it's appearance on the field! This is the second hit! First they cried that it's too powerfull... nerfed... now that it's too accurate in CQC... nerfed... What will it be next time? Simply that its clip has more than one bullet and it should become something like a weaker sniper rifle? I suggest they cut the damage on the ScR by 30% and rise the heat-building by 20%... then rise the dispersion for longer targets by 20% after the second bullet and In addition, let's cut some 40% of the clip (don't come up with "RR has a bigger clip, you can really f* each bullet after the 15th in row )... But don't despair, you'll receive in exchange some "useful" bonus on reloading... That is where the RR is now, AH! Can't anybody JSTGDMF??? U mad bro? Sorry man, I really think I'll be soon... They simply sfd us... Hail Caldari !! Hail to the Caldari State !!!**
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1864	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:07:00 - [134] - Quote Just played two rounds.... My early impressions: OMFG, the RR is useless now in CQC. It was hit with a nerfbat I've not seen since the Flaylock. You have about 3 bullets before the gun won't hit the broad side of a Madrugar. I didn't notice much of a difference with the ARR, but only used it a bit as I was focused on playing with the RR. I died 10 times -- four were to the Breach AR and six were to Shotguns. Time to warm up the SMG or ScP, I guess, or just bite the bullet and spend my SP on a Combat Rifle or Shotgun.
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens Capital Punishment. 414	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:10:00 - [135] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: ^an infantry rifle should be effective throughout its range - look at the scrambler for example. If you want to nerf a rail rifles ability to perform in CQC hit its charge time or magazine size, because that has the most effect on its ability to act upon or react to close range threats. The kick changes make it unusably inaccurate two seconds in when hipfire is a thing that should be available to all weapons. As I've stated this is the exact same thing as the 'laser rifle problem', it doesn't see play simply because it is more often than not entirely useless as a weapon if you want to actually play the objective on domination or skirmish, which is outright bad design or an improperly targeted nerf. It was stated long ago that the Rail Rifle should be the worse weapon at CQC yet you are still saying it should be usable at CQC? Many people would prefer the kick from hipfire rather than nerfing it's magazine size. Nerf magazine or charge time instead and the weapon would be underperforming at all ranges. Nerf it's CQC abilty and you are nerfing it's CQC abilty. You want to use Rails but be good at CQC? Use the ARR. Otherwise stop crying because your crutch got balanced. Been here since Mordus Private Trials Closed Beta Vet under 30 million SP ;-;
tander09 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 143	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:13:00 - [136] - Quote I think this problem is more about people who can't manage high kick weapons, rather than the gun being overnerfed. "If the gallente brainwash me again, they shall be purged by God himself!" -Nexle Skimfuse AMARRIAN4LYFE
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1864	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:20:00 - [137] - Quote lol Try it & report back. Please.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 539	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:24:00 - [138] - Quote The rail rifle is also not a specialty weapon unless we now fit specialty weapons to front line suits. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1469	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:26:00 - [139] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ^an infantry rifle should be effective throughout its range - look at the scrambler for example. If you want to nerf a rail rifles ability to perform in CQC hit its charge time or magazine size, because that has the most effect on its ability to act upon or react to close range threats. The kick changes make it unusably inaccurate two seconds in when hipfire is a thing that should be available to all weapons. As I've stated this is the exact same thing as the 'laser rifle problem', it doesn't see play simply because it is more often than not entirely useless as a weapon if you want to actually play the objective on domination or skirmish, which is outright bad design or an improperly targeted nerf. It was stated long ago that the Rail Rifle should be the worse weapon at CQC yet you are still saying it should be usable at CQC? Many people would prefer the kick from hipfire rather than nerfing it's magazine size. Nerf magazine or charge time instead and the weapon would be underperforming at all ranges. Nerf it's CQC abilty and you are nerfing it's CQC abilty. You want to use Rails but be good at CQC? Use the ARR. Otherwise stop crying because your crutch got balanced. Being "worse" doesn't mean it needs to be unusably bad. You are thinking about this in completely binary terms when there is no reason to be. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens Capital Punishment. 414	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:47:00 - [140] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Buwaro Draemon wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ^an infantry rifle should be effective throughout its range - look at the scrambler for example. If you want to nerf a rail rifles ability to perform in CQC hit its charge time or magazine size, because that has the most effect on its ability to act upon or react to close range threats. The kick changes make it unusably inaccurate two seconds in when hipfire is a thing that should be available to all weapons. As I've stated this is the exact same thing as the 'laser rifle problem', it doesn't see play simply because it is more often than not entirely useless as a weapon if you want to actually play the objective on domination or skirmish, which is outright bad design or an improperly targeted nerf. It was stated long ago that the Rail Rifle should be the worse weapon at CQC yet you are still saying it should be usable at CQC? Many people would prefer the kick from hipfire rather than nerfing it's magazine size. Nerf magazine or charge time instead and the weapon would be underperforming at all ranges. Nerf it's CQC abilty and you are nerfing it's CQC abilty. You want to use Rails but be good at CQC? Use the ARR. Otherwise stop crying because your crutch got balanced. Being "worse" doesn't mean it needs to be unusably bad. You are thinking about this in completely binary terms when there is no reason to be. Greasepalms wrote: the rr should not be viable in cqc just like the plasma rifle shouldn't be effective at range.. Viable: 5. practicable; workable: Optimal: 2. the greatest degree or best result obtained or obtainable under specific conditions. 3. most favorable or desirable; best: Huge massive major difference. Right now it is neither viable nor optimal. It should be SUB-optimal but still VIABLE. What you are saying is that it shouldn't be useable at all in CQC situations, which is entirely wrongheaded. Might as well just use sniper rifles then. Well I just got out of a game by trying it out. Went 24/4 with it. If you learn how to manage and control the kick you shouldn't have a problem with it. "Oh noes! I needz some skill to use a weapon" Been here since Mordus Private Trials Closed Beta Vet under 30 million SP ;-;

Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1868	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:59:00 - [141] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: What you are saying is that it shouldn't be useable at all in CQC situations, which is entirely wrongheaded. Might as well just use sniper rifles then. Well I just got out of a game by trying it out. Went 24/4 with it. If you learn how to manage and control the kick you shouldn't have a problem with it. "Oh noes! I needz some skill to use a weapon" Just curious.... How many of those kills were with the RR in CQC? What suits/weapons did you defeat?
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens Capital Punishment. 415	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:09:00 - [142] - Quote Most of them were medium to short. Fit here it is: 'Raven' Assault C-1 - SB-39 Rail Rifle -STD Magsec SMG -2 Enhanced shield extenders -1 Enhanced shield recharger -1 Enhanced Shield Regulator -Compact Nanohive -AV Nades about 18 of my kills were with the RR while the rest with the Magsec. Been here since Mordus Private Trials Closed Beta Vet under 30 million SP ;-;
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 166	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:14:00 - [143] - Quote Just played... Hip fire is still usable, but definitely not something efficient or dependable- let alone preferable to other weapons, which is exactly how it should've been all along. The charge time is finally a significant drawback of the weapon too... Rather than some quirky gimmick... Played a quick ambush in STD Caldari Assault with Rail Rifle + Bolt Pistol... 11 kills and 2 deaths... Hip-fired and killed about 4 people in a row inside a building... No joke. Then again, I have max skills... So maybe it's harder for somebody with less skills. It's not too bad in my opinion and it's not nearly as bad as the scrambler rifle last time I tried it. This is honestly just getting me excited about variants finally, bring them on CCP! I think one of the issues we're seeing in threads regarding rifle balance and parity is that the rail rifle works like some sorta pseudo-breach rifle when it's in a class in it's own. It might be neat if CCP could make a "long range rail rifle" variant for the other races in addition to the breach variant. I want a breach rail rifle to use with my triple damage modded Caldari Commando honestly...
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 166	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:18:00 - [144] - Quote I want to add that hipfire is not going to be very good against good players.. But... Those are good players... That's working as intended. They're supposed to beat you if they're better than you or using a weapon more ideal for the engagement... Also, if you can't aim like me, I would suggest aiming at their shins and let the recoil do the rest.
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 461	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:21:00 - [145] - Quote Tried that and state that. "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1469	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:21:00 - [146] - Quote The rail rifle is the breach variant rifle indy, that's supposed to be its thing. Amarr have Tactical, Minmatar have Burst and Gallente have Assault. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 166	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:30:00 - [147] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: The rail rifle is the breach variant rifle indy, that's supposed to be its thing. Amarr have Tactical, Minmatar have Burst and Gallente have Assault. I'm sorry. I was under the impression that breach weapons were usually more skill shot variants... Smaller magazines... Lower rates of fire... Massive damage... The naming covnvetions are a bit confusing sometimes, sorta made me wish they'd do away with the basic variants of each race's weapon the other day. So that way there wouldn't be a "normal rail rifle" or "normal scrambler rifle", that is... That's the impression the flaylock and the mass driver gave me anyways. Anyways, from what I've read the rail rifle is supposedly intended to do so-so damage over a longer range. Not really the same as other weapons with the breach label, I guess. I'm a bit out of the loop though.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 539	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:30:00 - [148] - Quote Hmm.. Maybe the sniper rifle is the new caldari CQC option. I know I just seen video recently of some one going on a kill streak with it. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1868	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:36:00 - [149] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: Most of them were medium to short. Fit here it is: 'Raven' Assault C-1 - SB-39 Rail Rifle -STD Magsec SMG -2 Enhanced shield extenders -1 Enhanced shield recharger -1 Enhanced Shield Regulator -Compact Nanohive -AV Nades about 18 of my kills were with the RR while the rest with the Magsec. I am having trouble believing we are using the same gun.... I just played two more games. Similar results. Using the proto version w/maxed out skills. I can't kill anyone in CQC unless they are complete noobs, or I polish them off with the first few bullets. The loss of accuracy and kick combine to make it shoot all over the place. The PC tonight should be interesting to say the least....
Duke Noobiam Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 233	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:38:00 - [150] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: And meanwhile, the most OP weapon of all, the CR, remains untouched. I don't get it. This confounds me too. The CR is good at many ranges, has a scope, excellent damage, respectable clip size, and low fitting requirements. It's good at just about everything it can do. Where is it's nerf? CR got min dispersal increase/nerf, it's noticeably less effective at long range hipfiring. How do you kill that which has no life?



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