DUST Search - Rail rifle hit by excessive overnerf

postapo wastelander wrote:

Middas Betancore wrote:

My thoughts are after using it, yes its hipfire is very bad

Puts it in the same realm as the las rifle, fine for range, but up close you will probably want to give about 1/3 of your mag off the hip then probably switch to a sidearm
Most will simply use the AAR (expensive) which works in CQC well u can hip fire most of ur mag if u really have to
I foresee a lot of ppl will stop using the RR

Overall I find the nerf to be very harsh, but as a cal player....I can deal with it...just don't expect me to solo everyone with an sb-39

Sidenote: CQC hipfire has been used many times in combat and can never be fully discounted. When breaching a room a trained operatives hip accuracy will be a key factor in the chaotic fast paced firefights that ensue.
The first British Army Commando manual strenuously impresses the importance of training in "1/4-3/4 hip stance" essentially snap off the hip shooting.
We're not storming an embassy...we're in open combat

(Perhaps not entirely relevant, no this isn't a simulation, but hipfire shouldnt be just dismissed)

My final thought...it's an infantry rifle...not a support weapon
Tone it down just a bit

RR overperformed other rifles and big times, this nerf is simple and smart.
RRs were made like medium to long range rifles, there is no need to have them strong in CQC too.
If you want CQC use ARR or make build with MAGSEC, its easy.
I dont know why is here that amount of tears, RR needed balance end of story.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2053	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:17:00 - [31] - Quote I know right?! If only Rattati had listened and given RR users a CQC option! Wailing and gnashing of teeth! Wait... Sarcasm aside though, I haven't been able to check out the RR changes yet, I've been getting the place ready for a cat (I got a kitty!!) But this isn't the end of the world. Rattati listened and buffed the ARR some, so if you want to be better in CQC, go check it out. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 534	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:23:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit Make these stats public on a web dump. Stats like hours guns are fielded, kills by weapons, engagement ranges. Don't have to make it pretty you got the community to do that for you. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 43	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:27:00 - [33] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I know right?! If only Rattati had listened and given RR users a CQC option! Wailing and gnashing of teeth! Wait... Sarcasm aside though, I haven't been able to check out the RR changes yet, I've been getting the place ready for a cat (I got a kitty!!) But this isn't the end of the world. Rattati listened and buffed the ARR some, so if you want to be better in CQC, go check it out. I still prefer the old ARR now, with the lower damage and mag size, I'd trade the "buff" for the old ARR hip fire. After a few shots, the weapon goes from anti infantry to anti aircraft.
Darrius Smithmage 24	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:29:00 - [34] - Quote I'll use caldari no matter how many times it Nerf. I will to run railrifles,bolt pistols,cal assault and my state gunlogi and Myron o7 CalFW roleplayer I'm the calmando power ranger run from my megazord the state gunlogi >:D. Kirjuun Heiian Player.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 534	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:30:00 - [35] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I know right?! If only Rattati had listened and given RR users a CQC option! Wailing and gnashing of teeth! Wait... Sarcasm aside though, I haven't been able to check out the RR changes yet, I've been getting the place ready for a cat (I got a kitty!!) But this isn't the end of the world. Rattati listened and buffed the ARR some, so if you want to be better in CQC, go check it out. Let me run back to the supply depot so I can equip something .... I think I understand all the RR hate as I always run shields suits I been immune to most RRs. That's probley why I never seen a problem with it needing a balance because I'm unaffected by most of the fire. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1464	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:33:00 - [36] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit So rather than strive for actual balance, let's just make the rail rifle the old laser? cool beans ratman, good to know I can always count on you for another kick in the teeth. By the way I don't even like the rail rifle, despite me identifying as a caldari loyalist. I just so happen to be one of those people that tries to only use racial weapons with racial fits. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4752	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:35:00 - [37] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: I think you guys on the CPM that are trying to curve the weapon into a role. As a caldari player, there is no point for me to run up and hack an objective if I have to turn around and run 30m away so I can shot at the enemy. You guys been riding the Rail Riffle hate since it came out the door and forced a overnerf. I assume the Magsec SMG and the Assault Rail Rifle would be the Caldari tools for Close Quarter combat. They may not work as well as some of the other Faction's weapons, but they should be serviceable at close range. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Horizon Limit Nexus Balusa Horizon 105	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:37:00 - [38] - Quote It's fine at distance, controlled hipfire is also fine (4-5 shots). Cal scout vs Cal scout
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 534	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:38:00 - [39] - Quote I like the advanced Magsec but the standard SMG is by far a better option if I want to play serious. I only run the Magsec in pubs when I feel like getting owned a few times. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 437	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:38:00 - [40] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit So rather than strive for actual balance, let's just make the rail rifle the old laser? cool beans ratman, good to know I can always count on you for another kick in the teeth. By the way I don't even like the rail rifle, despite me identifying as a caldari loyalist. I just so happen to be one of those people that tries to only use racial weapons with racial fits. Do you want cqc, try magsec or go for ARR "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1464	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:38:00 - [41] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: I think you guys on the CPM that are trying to curve the weapon into a role. As a caldari player, there is no point for me to run up and hack an objective if I have to turn around and run 30m away so I can shot at the enemy. You guys been riding the Rail Riffle hate since it came out the door and forced a overnerf. I assume the Magsec SMG and the Assault Rail Rifle would be the Caldari tools for Close Quarter combat. They may not work as well as some of the other Faction's weapons, but they should be serviceable at close range. So instead of simply being able to enter a room to hack a point I should have to run back to a supply depot to grab an assault rail rifle and/or magsec? How is this not the laser rifle problem (y'know the reason that weapon rarely ever sees actual play?) Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4230	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:38:00 - [42] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: So rather than strive for actual balance, let's just make the rail rifle the old laser? cool beans ratman, good to know I can always count on you for another kick in the teeth. By the way I don't even like the rail rifle, despite me identifying as a caldari loyalist. I just so happen to be one of those people that tries to only use racial weapons with racial fits. If Rattati nerfed your weapon it is probably because it needed it. If you want a CQC weapon I suggest trying the ARR or magsec SMG. Better yet, try a race who specializes in CQC like the Gallente plasma rifle or shotgun. My advice to you, playa...
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1464	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:39:00 - [43] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: So rather than strive for actual balance, let's just make the rail rifle the old laser? cool beans ratman, good to know I can always count on you for another kick in the teeth. By the way I don't even like the rail rifle, despite me identifying as a caldari loyalist. I just so happen to be one of those people that tries to only use racial weapons with racial fits. If Rattati nerfed your weapon it is probably because it needed it. If you want a CQC weapon I suggest trying the ARR or magsec SMG. Better yet, try a race who specializes in CQC like the Gallente plasma rifle or shotgun. It's almost like you're missing the point on purpose. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4230	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:40:00 - [44] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: It's almost like you're missing the point on purpose. I must be using an RR... my 'b My advice to you, playa...
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 66	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:41:00 - [45] - Quote I tried the RR today, and I say this as someone who HATES the RR and am glad to see it be nerfed, I think it went a bit too far. I have 1 level in the weapon from when 1.7 came out, and after trying it out (I tried it again a few weeks ago and hated it) it seemed almost not worth using just because I can't reliably use it in CQC. I hear the assault variant is worth using, but with such an inverse effectiveness/range ratio, it seems like a laser rifle, but without the cool damage or inherent cache of lasers. I ran into a proto Cal Logi, and he started shooting at me, and after 2 seconds, he just decided to cloak up and try to run away. I chased him down and shot him dead, but the engagement took many seconds, and he didn't bother to fight back. I saw a few more examples after that as well. It is one thing to go into a fight and know you have an advantage, it's another to say "I WILL win this fight" because you know they are incapable of meaningful retaliation. I suppose it is the inverse of what I experience at range with my blaster rifles, but it kinda make me sad to see that poor logi just give up. I think the change is good, and I like how well it seems to work, but I dislike the extent to witch it happens. Perhaps nerf the max kick so that it only gets as bad as it does after around 20 rounds fired. Fire 15 rounds with fair accuracy, and at 20 it becomes bad and stays bad, but is not literally uncontrollable. Tone it down just enough so one's rounds go in the general direction of where one aims. Also, the bolt pistol is FINE. Like the changes, and it feels good, and balanced compared with the to other pistols. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 1302	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:42:00 - [46] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: finally the RR isnt the OP king of rifles no more That title always belonged to the CR since it's arrival and now it will be more pronounced . You CR users are next . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
Middas Betancore Kirjuun Heiian 123	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:42:00 - [47] - Quote My thoughts are after using it, yes its hipfire is very bad Puts it in the same realm as the las rifle, fine for range, but up close you will probably want to give about 1/3 of your mag off the hip then probably switch to a sidearm Most will simply use the AAR (expensive) which works in CQC well u can hip fire most of ur mag if u really have to I foresee a lot of ppl will stop using the RR Overall I find the nerf to be very harsh, but as a cal player....I can deal with it...just don't expect me to solo everyone with an sb-39 Sidenote: CQC hipfire has been used many times in combat and can never be fully discounted. When breaching a room a trained operatives hip accuracy will be a key factor in the chaotic fast paced firefights that ensue. The first British Army Commando manual strenuously impresses the importance of training in "1/4-3/4 hip stance" essentially snap off the hip shooting. We're not storming an embassy...we're in open combat (Perhaps not entirely relevant, no this isn't a simulation, but hipfire shouldnt be just dismissed) My final thought...it's an infantry rifle...not a support weapon Tone it down just a bit CEO-Kirjuun Heiian-Caldari Faction Warfare Corp Join our public chat channel. Kirjuun Heiian
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1464	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:44:00 - [48] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: It's almost like you're missing the point on purpose. I must be using an RR... my 'b There's other, better ways to balance something than to straight up break the arms of anyone who in this case tries to hipfire it. Lower magazine size for example can drastically affect a weapons performance at CQC, instead of having extended fire durations break your spine and point you at the skybox. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6794	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:44:00 - [49] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: I think you guys on the CPM that are trying to curve the weapon into a role. As a caldari player, there is no point for me to run up and hack an objective if I have to turn around and run 30m away so I can shot at the enemy. You guys been riding the Rail Riffle hate since it came out the door and forced a overnerf. I assume the Magsec SMG and the Assault Rail Rifle would be the Caldari tools for Close Quarter combat. They may not work as well as some of the other Faction's weapons, but they should be serviceable at close range. So instead of simply being able to enter a room to hack a point I should have to run back to a supply depot to grab an assault rail rifle and/or magsec? How is this not the laser rifle problem (y'know the reason that weapon rarely ever sees actual play?) Yeah, actually. That's exactly how it should work. I use the Gallente Assault Rifle and that's what I have to do every-time the battle changes to long range. Long range is where Caldari excel and rightly so, you should -ABSOLUTELY- have to go and switch weapons for CQC. Rail Rifle dominated at every range for the longest time and I'm glad they finally hit it's CQC ability even if it was almost an entire year later. { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 438	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:46:00 - [50] - Quote Middas Betancore wrote: My thoughts are after using it, yes its hipfire is very bad Puts it in the same realm as the las rifle, fine for range, but up close you will probably want to give about 1/3 of your mag off the hip then probably switch to a sidearm Most will simply use the AAR (expensive) which works in CQC well u can hip fire most of ur mag if u really have to I foresee a lot of ppl will stop using the RR Overall I find the nerf to be very harsh, but as a cal player....I can deal with it...just don't expect me to solo everyone with an sb-39 Sidenote: CQC hipfire has been used many times in combat and can never be fully discounted. When breaching a room a trained operatives hip accuracy will be a key factor in the chaotic fast paced firefights that ensue. The first British Army Commando manual strenuously impresses the importance of training in "1/4-3/4 hip stance" essentially snap off the hip shooting. We're not storming an embassy...we're in open combat (Perhaps not entirely relevant, no this isn't a simulation, but hipfire shouldnt be just dismissed) My final thought...it's an infantry rifle...not a support weapon Tone it down just a bit RR overperformed other rifles and big times, this nerf is simple and smart. RRs were made like medium to long range rifles, there is no need to have them strong in CQC too. If you want CQC use ARR or make build with MAGSEC, its easy. I dont know why is here that amount of tears, RR needed balance end of story. "Nanohives, repairs or droplinks, just ask me on field i can tink anything"

Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6794	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:46:00 - [51] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I hope it worked, because the numbers I was looking at today were worse than I thought, the RR has been OP for far too long, eluding me like a hobbit Make these stats public on a web dump. Stats like hours guns are fielded, kills by weapons, engagement ranges. Don't have to make it pretty you got the community to do that for you. Lol, I've been arguing for that for months now. { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2054	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:47:00 - [52] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: I think you guys on the CPM that are trying to curve the weapon into a role. As a caldari player, there is no point for me to run up and hack an objective if I have to turn around and run 30m away so I can shot at the enemy. You guys been riding the Rail Riffle hate since it came out the door and forced a overnerf. I assume the Magsec SMG and the Assault Rail Rifle would be the Caldari tools for Close Quarter combat. They may not work as well as some of the other Faction's weapons, but they should be serviceable at close range. So instead of simply being able to enter a room to hack a point I should have to run back to a supply depot to grab an assault rail rifle and/or magsec? How is this not the laser rifle problem (y'know the reason that weapon rarely ever sees actual play?) Alright man, I feel your anger, but let's think about this for a second. If you have a laser rifle, you're job is not to go for the hack. Same with the sniper rifle. Your job is to stay back and provide cover for someone else to get the hack off. If your a laser rifle and your intentionally jumping into the thick of it, you deserve whats coming to you. This is no different from the RR. Now, if you have prof 5 in RR like I do, and you also want to be in the thick of it, you must then give up your RR and equip an ARR. But that means you're ability to accurately suppress at long range is now reduced, because you took the CQC option instead of the long range option. Rattati buffed the ARR, if you want to get into someones face with a RR, give the ARR a spin. But you shouldn't be able to slaughter at 74m and then turn around and tango with someone inside 20m with the same rifle and expect victory in both cases. Again, I've been busy with the kitty to log on and check the changes, but if Rattati followed my suggestions for the ARR (he listed some of them in the Balance Hotfix thread) then you have a very viable weapon to get up close with an ARR, meaning your RR sp isn't wasted. I don't see what the issue is bro. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1464	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:48:00 - [53] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Yeah, actually. That's exactly how it should work. I use the Gallente Assault Rifle and that's what I have to do every-time the battle changes to long range. Long range is where Caldari excel and rightly so, you should -ABSOLUTELY- have to go and switch weapons for CQC. Rail Rifle dominated at every range for the longest time and I'm glad they finally hit it's CQC ability even if it was almost an entire year later. Starting to feel like making flaylock / mass driver comparisons. Apparently the blind hatred for the RR greatly exceeds the desire to see balance done in reasonable measured steps. It's starting to sound a lot less like "This was a reasonable nerf" and a lot more like "I NEVER WANT TO SEE SOMEONE USE ONE OF THESE **ING GUNS AGAIN". Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Middas Betancore Kirjuun Heiian 123	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:48:00 - [54] - Quote Not saying RR was fine, just my initial thought is maybe it's a bit much We'll see CEO-Kirjuun Heiian-Caldari Faction Warfare Corp Join our public chat channel. Kirjuun Heiian
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 1302	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:49:00 - [55] - Quote postapo wastelander wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I keep telling you Cal brothers and sisters , we are this game punching bag ... they want Caldari at the bottom of the pole so they can take that same pole and shove it up our @$$es . It's sad , just sad . They should kill hip fire on all weapons . Honestly Bshate most of techie ingame is caldari ergo caldari is loved son of CCP for sure I think Cal Sentinels , Logistics , Sniper Rifles , De-pleated shield time on the extenders , One or Two low slots on most fits and now the RR would disagree with you . Gunnlogi and Cal dropships . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .*
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1464	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:50:00 - [56] - Quote postapo wastelander wrote: Middas Betancore wrote: My thoughts are after using it, yes its hipfire is very bad Puts it in the same realm as the las rifle, fine for range, but up close you will probably want to give about 1/3 of your mag off the hip then probably switch to a sidearm Most will simply use the AAR (expensive) which works in CQC well u can hip fire most of ur mag if u really have to I foresee a lot of ppl will stop using the RR Overall I find the nerf to be very harsh, but as a cal player....I can deal with it...just don't expect me to solo everyone with an sb-39 Sidenote: CQC hipfire has been used many times in combat and can never be fully discounted. When breaching a room a trained operatives hip accuracy will be a key factor in the chaotic fast paced firefights that ensue. The first British Army Commando manual strenuously impresses the importance of training in "1/4-3/4 hip stance" essentially snap off the hip shooting. We're not storming an embassy...we're in open combat (Perhaps not entirely relevant, no this isn't a simulation, but hipfire shouldnt be just dismissed) My final thought...it's an infantry rifle...not a support weapon Tone it down just a bit RR overperformed other rifles and big times, this nerf is simple and smart. RRs were made like medium to long range rifles, there is no need to have them strong in CQC too. If you want CQC use ARR or make build with MAGSEC, its easy. I dont know why is here that amount of tears, RR needed balance end of story. There's a difference between 'strong' and 'able to be used'. Yes the rail rifle needed tweaking - quadrupling the kick has overdone it. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
STYLIE77 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 215	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:54:00 - [57] - Quote Confirmed, half way through magazine you are facing the sky. AR and CR are NOTHING like this in terms of hip fire kick. It is ridiculous tbh...
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6795	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:58:00 - [58] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Yeah, actually. That's exactly how it should work. I use the Gallente Assault Rifle and that's what I have to do every-time the battle changes to long range. Long range is where Caldari excel and rightly so, you should -ABSOLUTELY- have to go and switch weapons for CQC. Rail Rifle dominated at every range for the longest time and I'm glad they finally hit it's CQC ability even if it was almost an entire year later. Starting to feel like making flaylock / mass driver comparisons. Apparently the blind hatred for the RR greatly exceeds the desire to see balance done in reasonable measured steps. It's starting to sound a lot less like "This was a reasonable nerf" and a lot more like "I NEVER WANT TO SEE SOMEONE USE ONE OF THESE ****ING GUNS AGAIN". Waaay back when it was first revealed they said that this thing's recoil would break the arms of the user unless they were in one of the power-suits we're using. It never -quite- felt like it was actually doing that. It's not blind hatred, it's just the way it should have worked from the very beginning. I got Gal Assault 5 and all my Assault Rifle skills to 5 but since the RR was released it always felt like it was a toss-up as to whether or not I'd win in CQC. And sure, you can compare the Flaylock/Mass Driver all you want. Both of those have at least -some- splash damage (the MD is really more for crowd control) but they're geared toward armor-users... In essence: CQC masters. They also have a pretty hefty flight time which gives a player time to get out of the way if they see it coming. They're absolutely nothing like a Rail Rifle in any way shape or form. Thing is dude, Rail Rifle -needs- to be bad at CQC so that the AR and the ARR can overshadow it. Otherwise there's really no benefit in having them. If the hipfire is terrible, that's fine - as long as the ADS mechanics are good or superb. There should be a definite disadvantage to the RR's power in CQC and from what I'm hearing, it sounds spot on. { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1853	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:58:00 - [59] - Quote And meanwhile, the most OP weapon of all, the CR, remains untouched. I don't get it.
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6795	Posted - 2014.10.28 17:59:00 - [60] - Quote STYLIE77 wrote: Confirmed, half way through magazine you are facing the sky. AR and CR are NOTHING like this in terms of hip fire kick. It is ridiculous tbh... -Because they are CQC weapons which depend on hipfire-................................ { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]



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