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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1853
   |
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
And meanwhile, the most OP weapon of all, the CR, remains untouched.
I don't get it. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1854
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 18:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:So they nerfed the Assault Rail Rifle too? No. ARR got a slight damage increase, clip size increase, and the spool-up time was not increased.
I didn't catch that one. Thanks for pointing it out. There is still hope for the RR users amongst us, and FWIW, I always preferred the ARR.
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1854
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 18:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:The best weapon in CQC and the best weapon at 60+ m should not be the same weapon! How can you possibly consider that to be balanced?
But that's just it.... The RR hasn't been the best weapon in CQC for a long time now. To the contrary, it's easily the worst of all the light weapons. The CR has always owned it in CQC, and the recent buffs to AR make that weapon clearly superior. Even the ScR is in a better place than the RR once you get used to the overheat mechanic/timing.
And FWIW, I've used the RR almost exclusively since it's introduction and play both public and PC matches with it. Hell, I can kill more efficiently with sidarms now in CQC, the RR is that bad already. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1857
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 18:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Turn up your sarcasm sensitivity, Mina. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1858
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 19:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:One thing needs to be understood: The rail rifle SHOULD be, without question, no arguments, plain as day to everyone within a very short time of using it, the absolute worst weapon in CQC. Terrible to the point you would not consider it to be a smart decision to enter a building with it as your primary option.
It already is.
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1862
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 20:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mike Ox Bigger wrote:Sorry I'm late to the party... WTF happened today? I've never understood the hate on the RR as I have it with pro 5 and I have CR pro 3 and my CR rips people apart twice as fast...
Exactly!
And that's saying nothing of the huge advantage the CR and its increased fire rate has on fast strafing scout and assault suits.
To be a bit more blunt, just because the noobs haven't figured out the CR (and AR) are much more effective weapons doesn't mean the RR is OP.
Overpopular != overpowered |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1864
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 21:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Just played two rounds.... My early impressions:
OMFG, the RR is useless now in CQC. It was hit with a nerfbat I've not seen since the Flaylock.
You have about 3 bullets before the gun won't hit the broad side of a Madrugar.
I didn't notice much of a difference with the ARR, but only used it a bit as I was focused on playing with the RR.
I died 10 times -- four were to the Breach AR and six were to Shotguns.
Time to warm up the SMG or ScP, I guess, or just bite the bullet and spend my SP on a Combat Rifle or Shotgun. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1864
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 21:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
lol
Try it & report back.
Please. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1868
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 21:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:
What you are saying is that it shouldn't be useable *at all* in CQC situations, which is entirely wrongheaded. Might as well just use sniper rifles then.
Well I just got out of a game by trying it out. Went 24/4 with it. If you learn how to manage and control the kick you shouldn't have a problem with it. "Oh noes! I needz some skill to use a weapon"
Just curious.... How many of those kills were with the RR in CQC? What suits/weapons did you defeat? |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1868
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 22:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:Most of them were medium to short.
Fit here it is:
'Raven' Assault C-1
- SB-39 Rail Rifle
-STD Magsec SMG
-2 Enhanced shield extenders
-1 Enhanced shield recharger
-1 Enhanced Shield Regulator
-Compact Nanohive
-AV Nades
about 18 of my kills were with the RR while the rest with the Magsec.
I am having trouble believing we are using the same gun....
I just played two more games. Similar results. Using the proto version w/maxed out skills.
I can't kill anyone in CQC unless they are complete noobs, or I polish them off with the first few bullets. The loss of accuracy and kick combine to make it shoot all over the place.
The PC tonight should be interesting to say the least.... |
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1868
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 22:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Duke Noobiam wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:And meanwhile, the most OP weapon of all, the CR, remains untouched.
I don't get it. This confounds me too. The CR is good at many ranges, has a scope, excellent damage, respectable clip size, and low fitting requirements. It's good at just about everything it can do. Where is it's nerf? CR got min dispersal increase/nerf, it's noticeably less effective at long range hipfiring.
Details, please.
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1868
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 00:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Zindorak wrote:+1 Get some gun game RR scrubs
Except, of course, the RR nerf had nothing to do with ADS and everything to do with CQC.
My ScP or SMG will be waiting, regardless.
In the meantime, I'll be using my SP for Gun Game Proficiency 5.  |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1868
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 01:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Me too. BrScP is quite nice. Dat headshot. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1913
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 15:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
I think a lot of people are misinformed about what happened to the RR and ARR and its impact. For what it's worth, I did some testing last night. Here's my post from the rifle data thread used to justify the nerf.
With apologies to the Asia players on my team for whom I was no help, I played around a bit more between PCs and queue-syncing FW tonight....
The ARR kick is different from the RR kick -- less vertical and more side to side. Making it even harder to control in CQC in relation.
My test was as follows:
Take ARR, aim at a spot on a wall, rip through entire clip of 58 rounds with hipfire, note where cursor landed.
Repeat with RR clip of 42 rounds.
Repeat with BrAR clip of 36 rounds.
Repeat with AR clip of 60 rounds.
Repeat with CR clip of 54 rounds (basic combat rifle).
Repeat with ACR clip of 54 rounds (AUR BK-42 ACR).
I did all this with proto versions of the weapons (except the CR as noted above) and repeated the tests a few times as kick has some random elements to it.
Here's what I found:
The RR kicked to vertical (about 120 degrees total, and I actually had to aim down in order to measure it). The kick was mostly vertical but had some small, random left to right kick (a few degrees).
The ARR kicked to about 45 to 60 degrees, less than the RR. However, the kick was much more side-to-side than the RR, often going 15 or more degrees off target. (note this is MUCH more difficult to correct for as it's also seemingly random left or right versus the mostly-vertical and much-more-predictible kick of the RR -- I suspect that's why this weapon preforms as poorly as it does in CQC and is underperforming)
The BrAr kicked about half the height of its hipfire dispersion (less than 5 degrees) and about the same left to right.
The AR kicked about the height of its hipifire dispersion (about 5 degrees) and about half of that little left to right.
The CR had about five pixels of rise (rapid button pushing was required and total rise was a degree or two), and a pixel or two of left to right.
The ACR had about five pixels of rise (same as CR) and the same left-to-right.
I think I finally understand why rifle CQC is dominated by the CR in PC, why I've preferred the BrAR since I picked it up a few weeks ago, and why the RR is so hard to control after a few shots -- the hell with DPS, it's all about the recoil profile and the resulting effective DPS. I was also a bit surprised to find the kick of the ARR even worse than the RR once I tested it and used it for a few rounds focusing on CQC encounters. ADS it's the same as it always was, but wow, the ARR may be even worse than the RR in terms of ability to put DPS on a target in CQC without stopping shooting for a third or a half of a second and allowing the gun to settle. That side to side kick is in random directions and very difficult to react to and control. No wonder I was the only one using it. lol
I think I'm going to finally bite the bullet and add a CR to my proto rifle collection once I receive the sidearm event points. Even the basic one rocks if you time the bursts. Kind of reminded me of the Burst AR from way back.... |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1933
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 18:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:
Thanks for this. I'm really interested in seeing how people think it's balanced for 2 rifles to kick 60 to 120 degrees, when almost every other either functionally doesn't kick, or kicks/disperses less than 5 degrees.
You are more than welcome.
My jaw literally dropped when I did the test -- as it completely confirmed what I suspected having died innumerable times before the nerf in CQC when using the RR.
Now, I get, and even agree, that the RR should be the worst gun at CQC. It already was.
The more operative question, at least for me, is just because a weapon is overused doesn't necessarily mean it's overpowered. And, in fact, the numbers say it's not OP but is overused.
Is that really a problem? Is increasing its CQC ineffectiveness really the way to affect the solution?
These are not easy questions to answer, and I don't envy the job Rattati has to do to balance things, but should we REALLY be balancing by use rather than effectiveness? |
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