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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Flint Beastgood III
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
72
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Posted - 2013.09.03 06:07:00 -
[241] - Quote
OMG, these SP events are getting worse and worse. How can you not see how stupid this is? SP Events over 7 days enable people who only get the time for a handful of games per day to double/triple their cap (depending on the event).
If you can't cap over the weekend for whatever reason - you're screwed and mad at CCP. If you don't see this info and play before the weekend - you're screwed and mad at CCP.
In the future, DO NOT start an event AFTER Wednesday! How many times we gotta say this?!
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Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
997
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 06:26:00 -
[242] - Quote
@Cmdr Wang.
The last SP event was only grindy because you doubled the cap, but not the SP earnings. This SP event wouldn't be a grind if only it starts wednesday and goes on until monday or next wednesday, which it now does. It was only grindy when the event was only over three days. No one has ever said 5-7 days SP events are grindy, unless you mess them up like the last one you did.
Your reason for having that 3k maximum is still a bunch of bs. As we already told you a million times you're punishing the Skirmish and Domination players. I don't care what your metrics say about the average SP earnings when the modes are different in both gameplay and length, and thus will be giving out widely different SP earnings.
Having the 3k maximum in place to "ensure players don't earn too much SP" is still a bunch of bs you're throwing at us when we already have the 1k maximum after the cap. This is a double SP event and it will never feel like a triple SP event if you only play 100 matches. If you get 3k SP per match then you need to play 63 matches to cap. To play 100 matches during the event as you used as an example eariler there's then 37 matches left to play, which will give you another 37k SP. That's 417.200 total SP (190.200 + 227.000 will get this event, which is nowhere near triple SP (190.200 * 3 = 570.600).
The 1k maximum is already in place to keep the SP earnings low, there's absolutely no need for the 3k maximum as well! |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
1675
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 06:47:00 -
[243] - Quote
CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:We have clarified the event details for easier understanding on how the SP event will work, you can check them out here. Is this link broken for anyone else or is it just me? |
I-Shayz-I
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
759
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Posted - 2013.09.03 07:04:00 -
[244] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:We have clarified the event details for easier understanding on how the SP event will work, you can check them out here. Is this link broken for anyone else or is it just me?
Not broken for me. It's basically the same info, but in a different format for easier understanding.
Also, for all of you crazy people who are going to be grinding 3k per match have fun with that. You realize that by doing that you will be getting at most an extra 50-100k sp, which is nothing. Seriously, a 7 day passive booster will give you more extra sp than that, and you don't even have to do anything
Gah, some people just don't make any sense. Like cmdr wang said, just play the game like usual and get extra sp. Simple as that. The game is much more fun when you're not trying to juice every last skill point out of these events.
sigh... |
Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
70
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Posted - 2013.09.03 07:19:00 -
[245] - Quote
CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:HowDidThatTaste wrote:Page 12 and this event is still clear as mud!
Lets see it starts Wednsday I can only play up to 3000 sp per match or its wasted?
I have no idea someone TLDR for me how do I maximized my SP gain TL;DR Play as you normally do and get extra SP! For free! Pretty clear.
So the change to start on Wednesday fixed the first problem. Good change.
What everyone is trying to say is that the event gives different rewards to different players. Consider this simple senerio of two players that both play until they reach their cap (neither have boosters).
1) Player A gets 3000 SP / battle which results in 2x SP from the event. 2) Player B gets 6000 SP / battle which results in 1.5x SP from the event.
Regardless of whether Player B gets more SP from skill or game mode they have missed out on a ton of SP. This is why the 3k cap per battle causes problems and makes players not want to perform too well and forces them to Ambush. If you want to limit SP on an event then remove (or change) the bonus once you cap, e.g the up to 1000 SP post cap. Capping pre cap creates chaos... As has been demonstrated. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
1675
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 07:19:00 -
[246] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Cross Atu wrote:CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:We have clarified the event details for easier understanding on how the SP event will work, you can check them out here. Is this link broken for anyone else or is it just me? Not broken for me. It's basically the same info, but in a different format for easier understanding.
Thanks for the check on this, guess my tech work for today isn't done yet
/emote shakes fist at sudden block wide power outages
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RKKR
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
342
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Posted - 2013.09.03 07:51:00 -
[247] - Quote
Quote:This should help reduce the fatigue and feeling like you need to play seven days straight to maximize the benefits.
I don't really see how this statement is true.
CCP here is an idea: Just give players who have logged in between "1st date" - "2nd date" a "X" amount of bonus SP.
Everyone gets to play how they like it without losing on anything - Check. Reduces fatigue to maximize the benefits - Check. Reduces the grind to maximize the benefits - Check.
CCP...don't make things hard for yourself and keep it simple. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1470
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 07:54:00 -
[248] - Quote
So we're doubling the entire skill points earned now, not just warpoints? There is a massive problem with this. Isn't the formula for active skill points gained:
(seconds in battle) x 5 + (warpoints earned) = skill points rewarded
Furthermore, isn't the average Skirmish around 15 minutes long? So if we calculate how many points you'd get just from participating in a skirmish it's:
15 minutes x (60 seconds/minute) x (5 skill points/second) = 4500 skill points
So by playing a skirmish you are automatically ensuring that 1500 of your skill points will not qualify for the 2x multiplier. Now let's look at the real problem that ensues here. Let's say the average Ambush take about half as long, so that's 7 and a half minutes and 2250 skill points.
If you were to play exclusively Ambush and hit your cap, none of your points will go over the 3000 limit meaning your bonus pay out will be a full 190,400 skill points.
If you were to play exclusively Skirmish, it would take just as long but at least 1500 of your points would not count towards the bonus. So lets see, at 4500 points from participating and say an average of 500 warpoints gained, that's 5000 skill points per match. That will take about 38 matches. 2000 skill points from each match is not counted, so 38 x 2000 = 76,000 skill points. Meaning at the end of the event you'd earn 190,400 - 76,000 = 114,400 skill points.
The same amount of playing time is done, but the person who plays Ambush is getting rewarded more simply because the matches are broken down into smaller chunks to avoid going over this artificial limit. Yup, I will unfortunately be playing Ambush only this week. |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
11
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 08:14:00 -
[249] - Quote
STABBEY wrote:Jean afer Salpun wrote:It will be interesting to see how the new match making evens out the scoring. Either way I make 2-3 times the 3k per match they have set soooo AFKing is a must, and it will probably take 3-5 days just to AFK all the SP from 10 minute ambush matches with no kills. This is gonna suck. Sending corp wide mail to AFK ambush's now. Stupid.. There are dozens of posts like this. I don't get it. What advantage is there to avoiding kills? If you got 6000SP per match, you would get 2x3000+3000=9000SP, so 3000SP more than if you avoid getting kills. The match takes the same amount of time either way. So this seems like a wonderful way to take a lot of SP away from yourself and your corp. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
998
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 08:18:00 -
[250] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:STABBEY wrote:Jean afer Salpun wrote:It will be interesting to see how the new match making evens out the scoring. Either way I make 2-3 times the 3k per match they have set soooo AFKing is a must, and it will probably take 3-5 days just to AFK all the SP from 10 minute ambush matches with no kills. This is gonna suck. Sending corp wide mail to AFK ambush's now. Stupid.. There are dozens of posts like this. I don't get it. What advantage is there to avoiding kills? If you got 6000SP per match, you would get 2x3000+3000=9000SP, so 3000SP more than if you avoid getting kills. The match takes the same amount of time either way. So this seems like a wonderful way to take a lot of SP away from yourself and your corp. Not really as you then remove 3k from the weekly cap that you can't get bonus SP for.
There's not a problem with getting more than 3k SP per match if you know you're not going to cap out anyway. If you plan to cap out, you'll be better off not getting more than 3k per match to maximize your SP gains. |
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ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1435
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 08:32:00 -
[251] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:STABBEY wrote:Jean afer Salpun wrote:It will be interesting to see how the new match making evens out the scoring. Either way I make 2-3 times the 3k per match they have set soooo AFKing is a must, and it will probably take 3-5 days just to AFK all the SP from 10 minute ambush matches with no kills. This is gonna suck. Sending corp wide mail to AFK ambush's now. Stupid.. There are dozens of posts like this. I don't get it. What advantage is there to avoiding kills? If you got 6000SP per match, you would get 2x3000+3000=9000SP, so 3000SP more than if you avoid getting kills. The match takes the same amount of time either way. So this seems like a wonderful way to take a lot of SP away from yourself and your corp.
if you got 6000 sp each match unboosted you would lose out on 95,200 bonus sp without boosters and 142,800 sp w/ boosters.
you would get from one match with 6000 w/ a booster 6,000 + 4,500+ 3000=13,500 at the cost of 6,000 from your cap and with 2matches w/ 3000 matchs you would get 3,000+3,000+4,500+4,500+1,500+1,500=18,000 for the same cost of 6,000 off of your cap make sense?
for a match you made 6,000 sp unboosted you get 13,500 or x2.25 your cap while in the 2x 3,000 you get 18,000 or 3x your cap this is for boosters^ |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
11
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Posted - 2013.09.03 08:37:00 -
[252] - Quote
Thanks for the clarification guys. CCP, can you please confirm whether it is correct that, in addition to the usual 190,400SP cap, there is a separate 190,400 bonus SP cap for this event, that can only be fully used by those that get 3,000SP (or less) in each match they play? You haven't said that is the case, but I think that's what people are assuming, and I can see why. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1436
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 08:54:00 -
[253] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Thanks guys. I'm basically just very confused by this event and am going to shut up. going over 3000sp without a booster and 4500sp with a booster = wasted bonus event sp on your weekly cap sp. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1473
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 09:03:00 -
[254] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Thanks guys. I'm basically just very confused by this event and am going to shut up. I don't blame you. I don't understand why CCP doesn't just make it so you gain skill points as normal throughout the duration of the event, than at the end ALL points gained during the event are doubled. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1518
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 09:37:00 -
[255] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Thanks guys. I'm basically just very confused by this event and am going to shut up. I don't blame you. I don't understand why CCP doesn't just make it so you gain skill points as normal throughout the duration of the event, than at the end ALL points gained during the event are doubled. When the hell do you sleep Aero? |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1477
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 11:24:00 -
[256] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Thanks guys. I'm basically just very confused by this event and am going to shut up. I don't blame you. I don't understand why CCP doesn't just make it so you gain skill points as normal throughout the duration of the event, than at the end ALL points gained during the event are doubled. When the hell do you sleep Aero? Whenever I darn well feel like it.
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Alex Smoke
The Nommo Insurance Fraud.
58
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 11:40:00 -
[257] - Quote
THIS IS SO DERP WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON AT CCP SHANGHAI!?
You're just making it more and more inconvenient for anyone to play this game casually without always feeling guilt of missing out on something. Why is CCP ignoring to answer the SP rollover problem I've quoted and linked a hundred times in various threads? You guys are playing us, stop fooling around and give us an ETA on what CCP Nothin said here:
CCP Nothin wrote:Now, in regard to the weekly skill cap and the implications of it:
We acknowledge that the current implementation of the skill cap still isn't quite there yet. It doesn't quite allow people to choose when to play as freely as we would like, and it also adds some unnecessary complexity when it comes to using active boosters. This is why we are working our way towards a rollover SP system: instead having your pool of bonus SP being reset according to a fixed weekly cycle, you will steadily accumulate bonus SP to a pool over time that you can then empty through fighting in battles. As a result, everyone should be able to better choose when to come in and claim the available SP. Moving to such a system would have the added benefit of allowing us to make active boosters to give out a constant value over time by having them influence the rate at which SP accumulates into the pool instead of just multiplying SP received at the end of each battle.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92596
Stop this MADNESS right now, simplify the SP system and let us enjoy the game without a full page devblog with math explaining how to gain SP this week.
Wake up! |
dinkum tachyglossus
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 11:59:00 -
[258] - Quote
Alex Smoke wrote:
Stop this MADNESS right now, simplify the SP system and let us enjoy the game without a full page devblog with math explaining how to gain SP this week.
Please just give us more content.. Maps and battle modes. Increase the amount of instant battles.
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Fire9er Greko
Mango and Friends
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 13:18:00 -
[259] - Quote
OMG CCP THIS IS SO AMAZING OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
167
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 13:42:00 -
[260] - Quote
If you think about it another way, time in battle contributes far more to your SP than warpoints. So if you are in a proto squad and can stomp the other team resulting in a match around 5 minutes long, you could still conceivably earn a decent amount of warpoints (albeit not over 1500) while remaining under the 3k SP limit. But it's safer, easier, and less costly just to AFK instead. |
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S Park Finner
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
229
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Posted - 2013.09.03 13:44:00 -
[261] - Quote
TL:DR Players want to play the game AND earn the maximum skill points possible during the event. This event limits how players play the game while making it difficult to maximize skill points. It is a bad event design. Reasons and alternatives in the rest of the post.
CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:... The primary goal of this event is to first test the new script and ensure it does not interfere with the game mechanics.
It is also interesting to note that while many are complaining about this event being a grind, they are also worried about hitting cap too soon, which means it will actually be less grindy if they average more than the mean 3000 SP per match.
I also don't see how AFKing will help players maximize their SP gain, yes you will earn more than you usually do, but it is unlikely that you get more than 3000 SP per match by doing nothing....
CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:... TL;DR Play as you normally do and get extra SP! For free! Pretty clear.
I can understand your frustration in the face of the tsunami of complaints about the event.
If I understand your position correctly you are saying "We are trying to put a new system in place and giving you extra skill points if you just play like you usually do. Why are you complaining about a free thing?"
With respect, I believe you misunderstand some of the motivation of your customers.
The players responding to this thread are folks who play the game. They are not the ones bad-mouthing the game or ranting about the death of DUST 514. They are loyal and invested in the game. They are the good guys.
The responses have several themes...
- "I don't understand the event."
- "The event disadvantages week-day players."
- "The game drives players to limit the skill points earned through game-play if they want to get the most skill points from the event."
So here's the point.
Players quickly learn the gun-game is, at this point, only adequate. What keeps them going is their investment in the game and the hope it will continue to improve.
In multi-player on-line games players compete among themselves. When they exhaust one form of competition -- say killing people by shooting them in the face -- they search the game for other ways -- say running people over in LAVs, or sniping them from hard-to-get-at places.
Whatever game they play, players want a game that provides a level playing field for their image of the game.
In DUST 514 skill points are a high-visibility mechanism for giving players an advantage and new ways to play.
There is no such thing as "Just play the game as you would normally and you will get some extra skill points from the event." Why? Because many players in DUST 514 feel that maximizing skill points is critical to staying competitive and keeping the game fresh.
Players want to play the game AND earn the maximum skill points possible during the event. This event limits how players play the game while making it difficult to maximize skill points. It is a bad event design.
What's worse the motivations for the event are not transparent.
I can understand if the mechanisms for rewarding some kinds of play are not in place. But I can't understand why CCP doesn't just come out and say what they want to accomplish and the problems with getting it done right now.
Lets say you want to try out match-making in ambush but there isn't any way to reward players for playing ambush -- like a SP bonus for every ambush game. Just say "We really want to test ambush games during the first week of the new build." And see if the community steps up. If they don't, let them know and keep working on a mechanism for specific, clear cut, rewards.
Lets say you want to give a skill point advantage to new players but you don't have a way to give a bonus to low SP players. Build that mechanism, or do what you are doing in this event but say it's job is to advantage new players who mostly play ambush on the week-end. The community might agree to it. Most of them want the player base to grow. If they don't you at least have a reason they can understand.
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Absolute Idiom II
No Free Pass
594
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Posted - 2013.09.03 15:26:00 -
[262] - Quote
Great post Finner |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative..
699
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 16:40:00 -
[263] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:If you think about it another way, time in battle contributes far more to your SP than warpoints. So if you are in a proto squad and can stomp the other team resulting in a match around 5 minutes long, you could still conceivably earn a decent amount of warpoints (albeit not over 1500) while remaining under the 3k SP limit. But it's safer, easier, and less costly just to AFK instead.
There is a risk of going over 3000 raw SP. A risk of losing some of the precious weekly max gain. Those maximizing competetiveness are not gonna take that chance. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
167
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 17:11:00 -
[264] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:If you think about it another way, time in battle contributes far more to your SP than warpoints. So if you are in a proto squad and can stomp the other team resulting in a match around 5 minutes long, you could still conceivably earn a decent amount of warpoints (albeit not over 1500) while remaining under the 3k SP limit. But it's safer, easier, and less costly just to AFK instead. There is a risk of going over 3000 raw SP. A risk of losing some of the precious weekly max gain. Those maximizing competetiveness are not gonna take that chance.
That's true, and I'm probably not going to use that strategy myself. I'll stick to AFKing. But the point of my post was to illustrate a way for players who do not want to AFK to also stay under the 3k limit (for the most part) - it just means you have to win the battle very quickly by cloning, but your squad (and probably your whole team) needs to do fairly well so the WP are spread around. This might be harder to do now that the matchmaking system is supposed to decrease pubstomps. If the match does end up dragging out and you have a high score, you can always disconnect. You'll probably end up with more points in less time than you would have by AFKing and having to disconnect at the 10 min mark. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative..
699
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 17:20:00 -
[265] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote: That's true, and I'm probably not going to use that strategy myself. I'll stick to AFKing. But the point of my post was to illustrate a way for players who do not want to AFK to also stay under the 3k limit (for the most part) - it just means you have to win the battle very quickly by cloning, but your squad (and probably your whole team) needs to do fairly well so the WP are spread around. This might be harder to do now that the matchmaking system is supposed to decrease pubstomps. If the match does end up dragging out and you have a high score, you can always disconnect. You'll probably end up with more points in less time than you would have by AFKing and having to disconnect at the 10 min mark.
Good point. Disconnecting might be a 'more sensible' way to do it. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative..
699
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 17:24:00 -
[266] - Quote
@Cmdr Wang: I'm so sorry for having to say this: You need to get more familiar with your own mechanics and see from the perspective of maximizing SP gains. I know that you are meaning well by defending the event developers, who are also meaning well. Sadly you haven't read the main point of posters (granted, ten pages is a lot) about losing SP if you are playing active before capped out.
Cmdr Wang wrote: also don't see how AFKing will help players maximize their SP gain, yes you will earn more than you usually do, but it is unlikely that you get more than 3000 SP per match by doing nothing.
There lies the key of misunderstanding: The problem is once you cap out, you are no longer getting extra 3000SP per match played. Using extreme (unboostered) example, if you'd magically get reach the cap in one game, you'd get 1x3000SP extra. If you get only 3000 raw SP per game, it takes you ~66 games to reach cap, therefore you gain 66x3000SP extra. If you plan to just cap out, this is HUGE difference. The difference is somewhat reduced by the post-cap extra SP: If you've capped faster and lost some pre-cap bonus SP but yet play the same amount of games, you gain 1000 extra SP per game (unboostered). It is some catching up, but still 1/3 of extra SP you'd gain by maximizing.
That was truly an extreme example, having a difference of 65 matches. But a difference of 25 matches (75k SP) is realistic.
Confusing things: - 3000SP isn't probably a high SP amount for general population. Zero WP ambush seems to score almost that, sometimes more. source :https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1240969#post1240969
- Are you sure you haven't mixed WP with SP in all your communications here? 3000 WP would be a high amount indeed for bulk of the players, those rambos mentioned occasionally breaking it
- You indicate here that the booster reduces the amount of games needed to cap: this is not the reality of released Dust 514. Also, a dev sticky post you released (on someone else's behalf?) says otherwise Probably there was confusion as the poster you quoted used an example of 'getting 4500 raw SP per match'.
Extra comments: - You are right about the main part of the event not being grind, if semi-afking ambushes from Wed till cap doesn't count - Any event with added post-cap SP gains is grindy indeed; I personally am gonna do a huge ambush marathon to get all those extra 1500SP (with booster) per post-cap ambush. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative..
699
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 17:38:00 -
[267] - Quote
I'm not here only to point out thoughts gone haywire, here's some suggestions what we have learned so far in order to get better events:
- Begin events on same day as cap reset to keep things simple (DONE=)
- Do not add any bonuses to post-cap matches in order to avoid grind
- Do not increase cap dramatically comparing to SP gain increase. It can be higher, but not way out of league.
- Do not create a limit which forces aware players to limit their playing (days to be skipped or limiting the WP/SP they dare to earn)
- Try to avoid extra cap resets as they force aware players to grind. If there has to be extra reset, communicate it well and make sure it's not one/two day "miniweek" to grind cap.
[[[suggestions for this particular event at later post as I have time....]]] |
Alex Smoke
The Nommo Insurance Fraud.
59
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 18:18:00 -
[268] - Quote
Stop dodging my question about what CCP Nothin said; get the SP rollover working and stop forcing us into grinding and min/maxing for poorly thought out events like these. You're worse than politicians, you answer anything BUT the important questions. You asked us to vote on the SP system and told us it was temporary, it's now 8 months later and you come up with this even instead?
I'm so shaken in my faith, you guys threw our votes in the trash and think you can just move on while we forget about it. |
Roofer Madness
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
180
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 19:17:00 -
[269] - Quote
Good luck grinding Ambushes with the way matchmaking has been working...... |
STABBEY
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
374
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 19:26:00 -
[270] - Quote
Just leave the battle and retry, I'm not going to do anymore than afk ambush till i hit my cap, if the stupid server puts people in the wrong game modes and every1 leaves and it screws up matchmaking even more... Well thats there own fault for making a stupid 3k sp cap. |
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