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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1413
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 11:42:00 -
[181] - Quote
Lt Royal wrote:CCP Eterne wrote:Hmm... You guys raise some salient points that might have been overlooked. I'll confer with Cmdr Wang about these issues and see what he says; I might have gotten some wording wrong about it. CCP Mintchip wrote:We're looking into this! We'd ideally want to make it so that you're not going to have a situation like this. I'd like to say that this isn't going to be an issue - but I'm going to want to confirm before promising anything. :) With 2 days to go, IGÇÖd very much like to know if I shouldn't be playing until the weekend or not...... Any word yet CCP? changed booster effect both match and event SP earned. |
Absolute Idiom II
No Free Pass
584
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 11:44:00 -
[182] - Quote
The issue with the 3000 SP cap is that you reach 3000 SP with only 10 minutes of play (and 0 WP). This is pretty much a complete Ambush match, as they don't tend to last the full 15 minutes. However, Skirmish/Domination matches are about typically 20 minutes long.
This means for each hour of play, an Abmush player can get 6x matches complete, or 6x 3000 SP = 18,000 SP bonus. A Skirmish/Domination player would only complete 3x matches so gets 3x 3000 SP = 9,000 SP bonus.
I think it's pretty clear what the effect of the 3000 SP limit is: don't play longer than 10 minutes in each battle, since otherwise you 'waste' your pre-cap SP as it won't receive a bonus. i.e. in order to get the most out of the event play for 10 minutes then quit and play a different battle type!
I'm still disappointed in the setup here. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1413
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 11:45:00 -
[183] - Quote
CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:We have clarified the event details for easier understanding on how the SP event will work, you can check them out here. We will also move the event start date forward so that it will begin on Wednesday, September 4 after downtime and end next Monday September 9 at downtime. We will give out the bonus SP from this event next Tuesday, September 10. . still saysQuote: Mainly, we've shortened the time scale, running over the weekend from downtime on September 6 until downtime on September 9 on that page. |
Kekklian Noobatronic
Goonfeet Top Men.
343
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 11:46:00 -
[184] - Quote
So, you're basically confirming that we need to confine ourselves to the horrible Ambush match type in order to maximize SP gain?
Because I normally play Domination, and average 4500/match w.o booster. According to the math, I would lose out on approx. 72,000 bonus XP. That's no small amount of XP.
Just thought I'd point that out. Unless the community at large is just playing Ambush, in which case I'll lose faith in this game, as I like to think of it as something a little better than just a COD Team-Deathmatch clone.. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1415
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 11:52:00 -
[185] - Quote
Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:So, you're basically confirming that we need to confine ourselves to the horrible Ambush match type in order to maximize SP gain?
Because I normally play Domination, and average 4500/match w.o booster. According to the math, I would lose out on approx. 72,000 bonus XP. That's no small amount of XP.
Just thought I'd point that out. Unless the community at large is just playing Ambush, in which case I'll lose faith in this game, as I like to think of it as something a little better than just a COD Team-Deathmatch clone.. hm.. i got that you would lose out on about 64,000 SP at 4500 per match. |
Eldest Dragon
0uter.Heaven
104
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 11:57:00 -
[186] - Quote
Thank you ccp, for getting this event started on wednesday, thats a lot better. |
Atom Heart Mother
We Who Walk Alone
39
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 12:03:00 -
[187] - Quote
thank you commodore.
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shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY
536
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 12:18:00 -
[188] - Quote
So, it's september 4 (tomorrow) or september 6? Because the event page still tell september 6. |
WolfganGt3
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 12:28:00 -
[189] - Quote
Thanks CCP Cmdr Wang,
Also I have a side note , if you want to make these Sp events shorter, Why not treat them as augmentations so players can run the event when they have the time. Everyone benefits and your the one giving our the ice cream. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1441
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 12:46:00 -
[190] - Quote
Personally not worried about the 3000 WP cap since I've never scored over that many points in a round before, but there is a valid concern because of how you define a match. Say I earn 3500 WP in a match of skirmish. Then I play two Ambush matches that combined take the same amount of time and earn 1750 points per match. In the first situation I get cheated of my 500 points, but in the second situation despite taking the same amount of time and getting the same amount of points, I don't get cheated of anything.
This same phenomena happens after you hit the weekly cap, why would I play Skirmish when every point after 1000 is for nothing while in Ambush I can get all my points to count?
To end on a positive note, thank you for moving the event up to Wednesday! |
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Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
6
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 12:51:00 -
[191] - Quote
CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:We will also move the event start date forward so that it will begin on Wednesday, September 4 after downtime and end next Monday September 9 at downtime. I think this event is in a good enough state to be deployed now. I'm happy to see you taking feedback on board. In that spirit, may I suggest that for future events you:
1. Do not only give the bonus on the first few thousand SP (3,000 in this case). This is for the obvious reason that it forces everyone to play nothing but ambush in order to maximize SP gain.
2. Reintroduce immediate SP bonuses. I think it's a major step backwards that 'you get the bonus after the event'. This introduces an unwelcome degree of uncertainty about SP rewards, especially where the terms of the event have changed or are unclearly stated, as in this case (it still says September 6 in the dev post). Furthermore, the majority of players don't read the forums and probably won't realize that there is a bonus event going on if they don't see that they're getting extra SP. So this actually defeats the purpose of the event, i.e. to get more players logged in. |
steadyhand amarr
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1179
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 12:59:00 -
[192] - Quote
Just saying guys get out of the min/max mind set u play games for fun not not to move a bar a little more to the right just play the dam gamemodes you want.
This generation of gamers forgot what games are ment to be about :-( |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY
536
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 13:01:00 -
[193] - Quote
They want us to play more ambush match, why not simply ask, i can do this for you CCP. But forget triage nanohives i will gain more than 3000 sp... |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
991
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 13:03:00 -
[194] - Quote
CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:We have clarified the event details for easier understanding on how the SP event will work, you can check them out here. We will also move the event start date forward so that it will begin on Wednesday, September 4 after downtime and end next Monday September 9 at downtime. We will give out the bonus SP from this event next Tuesday, September 10. This should prevent players who play more frequently from being punished in the event due to hitting the weekly SP cap sooner. I also want to explain the reason behind changing the length of the SP events. Previously, we are tied to a week long SP event due to the weekly SP cap being reset on Wednesdays. While we understand that the general consensus from the community is that longer events are preferred because they seem less grindy, we also want to offer more variety with events as many of you have requested. While we are developing the required features to do the types of events that many of you have asked for (such as missions and LP type rewards) we want the ability to alter current events now. This Caldari Bootcamp event is one such effort. If successful, we will be able to do different types of SP events, instead of only offering week long ones. We aim to do shorter SP events but more frequently. We also want to do different types of SP rewards such as giving 5x SP for the first win of the day. This will depend on how well this event works out first, as we want to be sure that shortening the event duration will not adversly affect other game mechanics. Another reason to do shorter events is logistics. We aim to do more events with shorter duration so we can increase their frequency as shorter events will be less taxing on the devs who do the support work. We also want to give more equality to casual players who may not be able to play all week in order to achieve the required event goals, so shorter events will help make furture events feel less grindy. Lastly, reguarding why the SP bonus is capped at 3000 per match. This is in order for us to estimate the expected amount of SP that players can gain from this event. Since the bonus SP can still be earned even after the weekly SP cap is hit, we need to ensure that there is a limit on how much SP a player can earn from this event. What I can tell you is that if you play 100 matches over the course of the event and earn an average of 3000 SP per match (with boosters) before hitting the cap, and average 1000 SP per match after hitting the cap, then the amount of SP you can expect to earn is roughly equal to a week long Triple SP event. If you play an average of 14-16 matches a day and earn the same amount of SP per match as mentioned above, then you can expect to earn roughly the same amount of SP as a week long Double SP event. So I hope that many of you will see the benefit of doing such an SP event, you can earn the same amount of SP in less time than a conventional week long SP event. In the meantime, enjoy the bonus SP from this week's event and I'll see you on the battlefield. You can't start SP events on any other day than wednesdays as long as we have a weekly SP cap reset on wednesday. If there was no cap, you could start the event any day you like and run it for as long as you like, but as long as we have a weekly cap and it resets on wednesdays, you're forced to start all SP events on wednesdays.
We already said why the maximum of 3k SP per match is rather stupid and I fail to see how the "need to ensure that there is a limit on how much SP a player can from this event" has to result in the 3k maximum. You already have the 1k maximum after the weekly cap to ensure SP earnings are kept quite low. There is absolutely no reason for another limit beyond the 1k maximum. As already said, all the 3k maximum will do is to force people to "AFK" in Ambush to ensure they gain the maximum amount of bonus SP that they can.
There is absolutely no reason to make SP events fancy and as complicated as this one. SP events should just be straightforward double/triple/whatever events that players can freely participate in without being forced to alter their playstyle as this event does. The simpler these SP events are, the better they will be. |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY
536
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 13:04:00 -
[195] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Just saying guys get out of the min/max mind set u play games for fun not not to move a bar a little more to the right just play the dam gamemodes you want.
This generation of gamers forgot what games are ment to be about :-( Told the guy with 20 millions SP |
Roofer Madness
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
169
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 13:15:00 -
[196] - Quote
Ok, I've read through a lot of this thread. I am glad they are extending the event. But I still have one question. Every one is saying to play Ambush and not to exceed 3000 WP. But on the event page it says:
Quote:Without booster (SP bonus is capped at 3000 per battle):
If base SP earned from a match is 1000, then you get 1000 +1000 (bonus)=2000SP (you get the bonus 1000 SP after the event)
If base SP earned from a match is 3000, then you can get 3000 +3000 (bonus)=6000SP (you get the bonus 3000 SP after the event)
If base SP earned from a match is from 3001 to 5000, then you can get 3001 to 5000 +3000 (bonus SP)= 6001 to 8000SP (you get the bonus 3000 SP after event)
With Booster (SP bonus is capped at 3000x1.5=4500 per battle):
If total SP earned from a match is 1000 (including booster bonus), then you get 1000 +1000 (bonus)=2000SP (you get the bonus 1000 SP after the event)
[b]If total SP earned from a match is 4500 (including booster bonus), then you get 4500 +4500 (bonus)=9000SP (you get the bonus 4500 SP after the event)[/b]
If total SP earned from a match is 5000 (including booster bonus), then you get 5000 +4500 (bonus)=9500SP (the user can get the bonus 4500 SP after the event)
SO: If I run boosters shouldn't I still be running Skirmish? I generally get right about 3000 + 1500 (booster) per skirmish and I generally get under that playing Ambushes. (The option is bold/underline is the most likely option for me.) |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
6
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 13:21:00 -
[197] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:Lastly, reguarding why the SP bonus is capped at 3000 per match. This is in order for us to estimate the expected amount of SP that players can gain from this event. Since the bonus SP can still be earned even after the weekly SP cap is hit, we need to ensure that there is a limit on how much SP a player can earn from this event. We already said why the maximum of 3k SP per match is rather stupid and I fail to see how the "need to ensure that there is a limit on how much SP a player can from this event" has to result in the 3k maximum. You already have the 1k maximum after the weekly cap to ensure SP earnings are kept quite low. There is absolutely no reason for another limit beyond the 1k maximum. This is a really good point that I missed. It makes no sense whatsoever to justify the 3000 SP bonus cap on the basis that 'Since the bonus SP can still be earned even after the weekly SP cap is hit, we need to ensure that there is a limit on how much SP a player can earn from this event', because you can't earn more than 1000 SP once you've hit the cap anyway. So the problem that the 3000 SP cap is supposed to address isn't a problem to start with. Is this whole event designed around a misunderstanding of basic SP mechanics? |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
6
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 13:30:00 -
[198] - Quote
Roofer Madness wrote:SO: If I run boosters shouldn't I still be running Skirmish? I generally get right about 3000 + 1500 (booster) per skirmish and I generally get under that playing Ambushes. Are you sure you only get 4500 SP per skirmish including the booster? That seems incredibly low. I would have thought you'd get more than that just from being in the battle. |
Absolute Idiom II
No Free Pass
587
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 13:37:00 -
[199] - Quote
CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:What I can tell you is that if you play 100 matches over the course of the event and earn an average of 3000 SP per match (with boosters) before hitting the cap, and average 1000 SP per match after hitting the cap, then the amount of SP you can expect to earn is roughly equal to a week long Triple SP event. If you play an average of 14-16 matches a day and earn the same amount of SP per match as mentioned above, then you can expect to earn roughly the same amount of SP as a week long Double SP event. So I hope that many of you will see the benefit of doing such an SP event, you can earn the same amount of SP in less time than a conventional week long SP event.
Since a maximum of only 66 matches (of 10 minutes each) are required to hit the SP cap - why are you using an example of 100 matches per week? Seems extraordinary to use such an extreme example.
Your 14-16 matches per day example is equivalent to 75 matches over te 5 days of the event. Again a similarly extreme example.
Odd. |
xp3ll3d dust
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
81
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 14:03:00 -
[200] - Quote
CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:We have clarified the event details for easier understanding on how the SP event will work, you can check them out here.
I still don't get it. Is it meant to be like a normal double SP event? All the metrics around are still confusing. The standard double SP events make sense and don't require a blog full of convoluted examples.
The issue with event length isn't around it feeling grindy. You can still have an event that is a week long, but can simply set a low threshold for achieving the reward (your first 20 games of the week will earn you double SP).
Short events are worse for casual players than longer events, if you don't casually play on the 2-3 days the event was on, you miss out. It also means those that have real life clashes on the day miss out. |
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Absolute Idiom II
No Free Pass
587
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 14:15:00 -
[201] - Quote
xp3ll3d dust wrote:CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:We have clarified the event details for easier understanding on how the SP event will work, you can check them out here. I still don't get it. Is it meant to be like a normal double SP event? All the metrics around are still confusing. The standard double SP events make sense and don't require a blog full of convoluted examples. The issue with event length isn't around it feeling grindy. You can still have an event that is a week long, but can simply set a low threshold for achieving the reward (your first 20 games of the week will earn you double SP). Short events are worse for casual players than longer events, if you don't casually play on the 2-3 days the event was on, you miss out. It also means those that have real life clashes on the day miss out.
This pinpoints exactly what is a 'long' event. Long event have a high grind involved in order to be completed. Short events have a lower threshold.
Low thresholds over longer timescales are more the ones which are more accessible to casual players. |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
345
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 14:22:00 -
[202] - Quote
Whatever you may think about the mechanics of the event it does affect one major complaint for the period upto you cap.
The proto stomp.
Vet: I am not shooting him, you shoot him. Vet 2: no way, I might exceed the 3000 SP for this match.
Noob: Skirmish - where is everyone. Noob: Ambush - how come all these players are running away. I must be a badass as all these vets are easy to kill they do not even shoot back or hit me.
1-2 days later, maybe 3, the SP cap is met. Proto stomp commences. At least until you hit 1000 WP then you consider quitting the match and entering another one.
Of course if you do not care about SP then none of this matters. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1418
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 14:24:00 -
[203] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Roofer Madness wrote:SO: If I run boosters shouldn't I still be running Skirmish? I generally get right about 3000 + 1500 (booster) per skirmish and I generally get under that playing Ambushes. Are you sure you only get 4500 SP per skirmish including the booster? That seems incredibly low. I would have thought you'd get more than that just from being in the battle. you do. most skirmish last between 14-18 minutes and can last even longer while small populated ambushes can last for the full 15 but usually don't last longer then 10 minutes |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
7
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 14:40:00 -
[204] - Quote
A'Real Fury wrote:Whatever you may think about the mechanics of the event it does affect one major complaint for the period upto you cap.
The proto stomp.
Vet: I am not shooting him, you shoot him. Vet 2: no way, I might exceed the 3000 SP for this match.
Noob: Skirmish - where is everyone. Noob: Ambush - how come all these players are running away. I must be a badass as all these vets are easy to kill they do not even shoot back or hit me. If you exceed 3,000 SP, you still get the bonus, but it only applies to your first 3,000 SP. So if you get 3,050 base SP, you get (3,000x2)+50=6,050 SP, 50 more than someone who just gets 3,000 base SP. So no one is going to avoid getting kills. If anything, the protostomp will be heavier than usual, as vets grind more or come back for the event. |
S Park Finner
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
227
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 14:54:00 -
[205] - Quote
Bottom line of the 3000 SP mechanism as it is set up now... play less time, earn less points, get more bonus.
Some things that have come out...
- Newer players are more likely to earn more bonus if they play more games
- Older players are more likely to back off before they hit their cap to get a bigger bonus
Something that hasn't changed...
- Any game that runs over 10 minutes reduces the bonus for all players
The apparent goal of the set-up is to give a boost to new players who are more likely to just jump into ambush, blast around, not make too many SP, and play on the week-ends while leaving the rest of the game unchanged.
That's not too bad an idea. If it's true why couldn't CCP just have said so? Almost no one here would have complained about a bonus weekend for new players.
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lithkul devant
Legions of Infinite Dominion
44
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 15:10:00 -
[206] - Quote
A'Real Fury wrote:Whatever you may think about the mechanics of the event it does affect one major complaint for the period upto you cap.
The proto stomp.
Vet: I am not shooting him, you shoot him. Vet 2: no way, I might exceed the 3000 SP for this match.
Noob: Skirmish - where is everyone. Noob: Ambush - how come all these players are running away. I must be a badass as all these vets are easy to kill they do not even shoot back or hit me.
1-2 days later, maybe 3, the SP cap is met. Proto stomp commences. At least until you hit 1000 WP then you consider quitting the match and entering another one.
Of course if you do not care about SP then none of this matters.
SP cap is hit, vets go into rage proto stomp mode, newbies run in fear of life and liberty as even the redline is now a death sentence, poor newbies huddle in fear in the MCC praying that the vets don't find a way into the MCC to slaughter them..
This event is just showcasing how silly the current weekly cap is, I would rather have roll over time or rested time from previous weeks and have the event say how much bonus SP I can get this week from an event. Also, dear devs, your numbers of matches that I'm actually going to play in a day is WAY to high. A normal day for a casual gamer is 5-10 games and then we are done for that day, we aren't going to play 15-20 unless we are really bored or have friends playing with us, and no way in hell am I going to play 100 matches in one day, unless someone is paying me real money to do so, but we also want to play Skirmish mode or Domination mode as well as ambush, this solely praising ambush stuff is boring and tiresome to be honest. I come to a game to have fun, not to grind on a certain mode to get X and that's what the SP cap bonus thing that you are doing is making happen. If I get above 3000SP I am loosing out heavily, in a normal game of skirmish, I can get roughly 6k or 7k of SP normally without trying to hard at all. |
Doyle Reese
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
413
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 16:22:00 -
[207] - Quote
and I'm about to miss this event with my Active Boosters on..... hold me guys |
Chet Muffin
L.O.T.I.S.
4
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 16:27:00 -
[208] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:.... Furthermore, the majority of players don't read the forums and probably won't realize that there is a bonus event going on if they don't see that they're getting extra SP. So this actually defeats the purpose of the event, i.e. to get more players logged in. Dear CCP, it would make sense to place the event info in the new "Recent Updates" screen, and on time, not half way through the event as seen in the past.
Also, why don't you give us some more perspective on the events you're planning to run? For instance this is clearly an ambush event. But you might have domination and skirmish oriented events in store for us. Or not. But the point is to communicate about it and prevent a lot of spamming on the forums.
Just tell us this is an ambush event when releasing it and no one will complain about it being an ambush event. |
deezy dabest
Warpoint Sharx
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 17:11:00 -
[209] - Quote
Chet Muffin wrote:[quote=Ryme Intrinseca]. Also, why don't you give us some more perspective on the events you're planning to run?
Save yourself alot of man hours and create an event planning sub-forum and let everyone introduce ideas and the forum argue them out as they did here until the good ones rise to the top and then put the team to work polishing them off. Maybe even a voting system to rank the threads instead of just last posted.
Also, since there are actually mods reading this thread could you guys add target=_blank to the forum links by default, its really annoying when you foget to click open in new tab on a link and end up on a youtube video with little chance of feeling like hitting the back button enough to get back to thread you were on.
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medomai grey
WarRavens League of Infamy
129
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 17:15:00 -
[210] - Quote
I formally apologize to anyone who may become infuriated with me for AFKing in ambush maps and contributing nothing to the team. Have to maximize the SP gain from the event after all.
I should also mention that I won't truly be AFK because I have to trick the new AFK countermeasures. |
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