Hi guys,

A quick heads up for some upcoming changes in 1.4 to armour and movement.

Currently a bug has caused some of the movement speed modifiers on strafe to be ignored. This is good and bad. ItGÇÖs good because faster strafe speeds are cool. ItGÇÖs bad because right now strafe speed is at least 1:1 with run speed and this was not our intention. In keeping with normal physical limitations strafe was intended to be slower than run. We had planned to raise the strafe speed from the 1.1 build to around 80% of run speed (it was lurking around 60-70% or so depending on frame). After seeing how popular (and fun) the higher strafe speeds have been we changed our minds. We still wanted to maintain a difference between forward and sideways movement but we didnGÇÖt want to make a significant reduction to the speeds. So weGÇÖve settled on strafe speed as 90% of run speed across all suits.

Before anyone freaks out, this does not mean it is set in stone forevermore. It just means that we want to play the game with the settings we actually intended so we can properly judge them. There are a lot of updates to the game in 1.4 so weGÇÖll be watching very closely to see what we need to respond to :-)

A nice thing that also came out of this is that I found some errant numbers and a bug that were causing the heavy frames to move too slowly backwards as well as reducing their strafe speed. Both of those problems are now fixed as well.

Also as promised on IRC yesterday IGÇÖm also sharing the buffs weGÇÖve made to armour plates.

Couple of caveats:
- We'd like to introduce a penalty to shield tanking (most likely increasing the delay on shield recharge when you use shield extenders) but we wanted to buff armor first. We will be watching 1.4 closely and if necessary, add the shield delay in 1.5.
- Role skills still need to be updated to better take advantage of armor tanking.

* Adjusted Armor Plate attributes - HP bonus of 85/110/135 (Basic/Enhanced/Complex) and speed penalties of 2%/3%/5% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 93.5/121/148.5)
* Adjusted Ferroscale Plate attributes - HP bonus of 35/50/75 (with full skill bonuses this equates to 38.5/55/82.5)
* Adjusted Reactive Plate attributes - HP bonus of 25/40/60 and speed penalties of 0%/1%/1% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 27.5/44/66)

Cheers

CCP Wolfman

Oooo yeaa, as a Dual tanker, I like the new armor plate stats, less speed penalty mmm mmmm

And the Armor tankers rejoice...

Let me say what will be said ONE day after this is released...
"ARMOR OP! /SHIELDS UP! /My AR lost to a HEAVY??!?!? /Heavy OP!"

The armor penalty is to little. If shield get a penalty they should get a buff.

Don't misunderstand, I'm happy with better Armor plates, but...

... I thought Plates give you more HP because they slow you down also.

A STD Plate gives you more HP than a PRO Extender. (Armor-Shield 1-0)

Armor needs a Repper (1-1)

Reppers work constantly while Shield is delayed (2-1)

Armor slows you down (2-2)

Shield extenders penalties... WHY EXACTLY?

So all suits will strafe at same speed? Like will all suits strafe at 90% or just the 90% of each specific suit? Like scout will strafe at 90% of their speed. And when will the scouts have some love? Give them a buff on speed. The assaults are almost as fast

Because there's absolutely no disadvantage to using them. You can stack 4 of them together and you don't get penalized.

However, armor plating requires you to sacrifice movement speed.

Honestly, I still think it would be better to have the plates affect acceleration, so you just take a little longer to reach full movement speed, but this is nice too.

Because there's absolutely no disadvantage to using them. You can stack 4 of them together and you don't get penalized.

However, armor plating requires you to sacrifice movement speed.

Honestly, I still think it would be better to have the plates affect acceleration, so you just take a little longer to reach full movement speed, but this is nice too.

now i can be twice as strong as b4 becasue this buff thank CCP =D

but ccp can u reduce PG at proto level, they cost 12 pg is way too much.. all other proto module only like 8-9 but armor plate is like 12 x.x

The armor penalty is to little. If shield get a penalty they should get a buff.

No keep the pg otherwise Armor tanking will be OP...when does 1.4 drop?

I like this. It's definitely NOT over the top, but it gives some love to armor tankers. I run 3 basic plates and a complex repper, so this is really just a small 60 HP buff to my suit while allowing me to move a little faster. Keep in mind that just because armor plate HPs have been given buffs, it doesn't mean people are going to be able to just throw 3 or 4 complex plates on their suit without having to seriously sacrifice in other areas. They still cost the same CPU/PG to fit.

Hi guys,

A quick heads up for some upcoming changes in 1.4 to armour and movement.

Currently a bug has caused some of the movement speed modifiers on strafe to be ignored. This is good and bad. ItGÇÖs good because faster strafe speeds are cool. ItGÇÖs bad because right now strafe speed is at least 1:1 with run speed and this was not our intention. In keeping with normal physical limitations strafe was intended to be slower than run. We had planned to raise the strafe speed from the 1.1 build to around 80% of run speed (it was lurking around 60-70% or so depending on frame). After seeing how popular (and fun) the higher strafe speeds have been we changed our minds. We still wanted to maintain a difference between forward and sideways movement but we didnGÇÖt want to make a significant reduction to the speeds. So weGÇÖve settled on strafe speed as 90% of run speed across all suits.

Before anyone freaks out, this does not mean it is set in stone forevermore. It just means that we want to play the game with the settings we actually intended so we can properly judge them. There are a lot of updates to the game in 1.4 so weGÇÖll be watching very closely to see what we need to respond to :-)

A nice thing that also came out of this is that I found some errant numbers and a bug that were causing the heavy frames to move too slowly backwards as well as reducing their strafe speed. Both of those problems are now fixed as well.

Also as promised on IRC yesterday IGÇÖm also sharing the buffs weGÇÖve made to armour plates.

Couple of caveats:
- We'd like to introduce a penalty to shield tanking (most likely increasing the delay on shield recharge when you use shield extenders) but we wanted to buff armor first. We will be watching 1.4 closely and if necessary, add the shield delay in 1.5.
- Role skills still need to be updated to better take advantage of armor tanking.

* Adjusted Armor Plate attributes - HP bonus of 85/110/135 (Basic/Enhanced/Complex) and speed penalties of 2%/3%/5% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 93.5/121/148.5)
* Adjusted Ferroscale Plate attributes - HP bonus of 35/50/75 (with full skill bonuses this equates to 38.5/55/82.5)
* Adjusted Reactive Plate attributes - HP bonus of 25/40/60 and speed penalties of 0%/1%/1% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 27.5/44/66)

Cheers

CCP Wolfman

how that op when armor plate eat up like half of gp on proto heavy. heavy cant even use proto nadas or other gear when they use their proto HMG

BROTHERS IT'S BEEN TO LONG.

MY GALLENTE BROTHERS AND SISTERS, NOW WE WILL SHOW THEM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

GIVE THEM HELL AND SHOW NO MERCY.

Why the hell do people leave out the Amarr. We're the best armour tankers in all of New Eden.

Why the hell do people leave out the Amarr. We're the best armour tankers in all of New Eden.

how that op when armor plate eat up like half of gp on proto heavy. heavy cant even use proto nadas or other gear when they use their proto HMG

Don't misunderstand, I'm happy with better Armor plates, but...

... I thought Plates give you more HP because they slow you down also.

A STD Plate gives you more HP than a PRO Extender. (Armor-Shield 1-0)

Armor needs a Repper (1-1)

Reppers work constantly while Shield is delayed (2-1)

Armor slows you down (2-2)

Shield extenders penalties... WHY EXACTLY?

I choose the fastest of the two races.

Same question as the last guy: did you change the repair rates on reactive? You didn't list that stat.

Nopes, those are still the same.

HOLY ****! I'M ABOUT TO BE RELEVANT! GALLENTE LOGIBRO'S FOREVER!

Hi guys,

A quick heads up for some upcoming changes in 1.4 to armour and movement.

Currently a bug has caused some of the movement speed modifiers on strafe to be ignored. This is good and bad. ItGÇÖs good because faster strafe speeds are cool. ItGÇÖs bad because right now strafe speed is at least 1:1 with run speed and this was not our intention. In keeping with normal physical limitations strafe was intended to be slower than run. We had planned to raise the strafe speed from the 1.1 build to around 80% of run speed (it was lurking around 60-70% or so depending on frame). After seeing how popular (and fun) the higher strafe speeds have been we changed our minds. We still wanted to maintain a difference between forward and sideways movement but we didnGÇÖt want to make a significant reduction to the speeds. So weGÇÖve settled on strafe speed as 90% of run speed across all suits.

Before anyone freaks out, this does not mean it is set in stone forevermore. It just means that we want to play the game with the settings we actually intended so we can properly judge them. There are a lot of updates to the game in 1.4 so weGÇÖll be watching very closely to see what we need to respond to :-)

A nice thing that also came out of this is that I found some errant numbers and a bug that were causing the heavy frames to move too slowly backwards as well as reducing their strafe speed. Both of those problems are now fixed as well.

Also as promised on IRC yesterday IGÇÖm also sharing the buffs weGÇÖve made to armour plates.

Couple of caveats:
- We'd like to introduce a penalty to shield tanking (most likely increasing the delay on shield recharge when you use shield extenders) but we wanted to buff armor first. We will be watching 1.4 closely and if necessary, add the shield delay in 1.5.
- Role skills still need to be updated to better take advantage of armor tanking.

* Adjusted Armor Plate attributes - HP bonus of 85/110/135 (Basic/Enhanced/Complex) and speed penalties of 2%/3%/5% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 93.5/121/148.5)
* Adjusted Ferroscale Plate attributes - HP bonus of 35/50/75 (with full skill bonuses this equates to 38.5/55/82.5)
* Adjusted Reactive Plate attributes - HP bonus of 25/40/60 and speed penalties of 0%/1%/1% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 27.5/44/66)

Cheers

CCP Wolfman

Also as promised on IRC yesterday IGÇÖm also sharing the buffs weGÇÖve made to armour plates.

Couple of caveats:
- We'd like to introduce a penalty to shield tanking (most likely increasing the delay on shield recharge when you use shield extenders) but we wanted to buff armor first. We will be watching 1.4 closely and if necessary, add the shield delay in 1.5.
- Role skills still need to be updated to better take advantage of armor tanking.

* Adjusted Armor Plate attributes - HP bonus of 85/110/135 (Basic/Enhanced/Complex) and speed penalties of 2%/3%/5% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 93.5/121/148.5)
* Adjusted Ferroscale Plate attributes - HP bonus of 35/50/75 (with full skill bonuses this equates to 38.5/55/82.5)
* Adjusted Reactive Plate attributes - HP bonus of 25/40/60 and speed penalties of 0%/1%/1% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 27.5/44/66)

Soo..... what you're saying is that in addition to kb/m users being able to instantly change direction with no slow down whatsoever, they will now be able to do so at 90% of run speed? Is there a -1 button anywhere? 'Cause I'm not seeing it...

Strafe speed changes \o/

First I donGÇÖt think I like the shield penalty.... takes away from the whole mechanic of using a shied tank, shield extenders donGÇÖt boost HP by a huge amount (especially below complex) and increasing the delay is going to hurt users a lot. I would have preferred a penalty a little less aggressive...

Love the armour plate changes... however i still cant see myself using the complex plates... even on my proto heavy with fitting requirements, penalty, and no real loss in hp il just use enhanced.

Ferroscale... They need a penalty... but like my point on the extenders nothing aggressive.

Reactive Plates... No point in the basic. The complex is ultimately underwhelming. All should have a rep bonus at the least, but there needs to be more to differentiate them...

A good step in the right direction

increasing the delay means people will actually have a reason to use regulators in their low slots rather than casual dual-tanking.

Armor tanks are **** dual tanks. why should shield tanks be awesome dual tanks?

Ferroscale HAS a penalty. You have to fit a module to rep yourself at a piddly-ass FRACTION of shield regen without modules to enhance it.

Wolfman, since you touch on Shield Penalties, would you be willing to entertain the following...

1. Shield Regen decrease relative to Shield Extenders (yes)
2. Scan Profile increase relative to Shield Extenders (when shields not depleted)
3. Weapons Lock-On Time decrease relative to Shield Extenders/Scan Profile
4. Separate Shield HitBox increase relative to Shield Extenders

?

Note: Currently, Weapons Lock On is only when targetting vehicles - but the Charybdis can handle getting locked on faster.

Hi guys,

A quick heads up for some upcoming changes in 1.4 to armour and movement.

Currently a bug has caused some of the movement speed modifiers on strafe to be ignored. This is good and bad. ItGÇÖs good because faster strafe speeds are cool. ItGÇÖs bad because right now strafe speed is at least 1:1 with run speed and this was not our intention. In keeping with normal physical limitations strafe was intended to be slower than run. We had planned to raise the strafe speed from the 1.1 build to around 80% of run speed (it was lurking around 60-70% or so depending on frame). After seeing how popular (and fun) the higher strafe speeds have been we changed our minds. We still wanted to maintain a difference between forward and sideways movement but we didnGÇÖt want to make a significant reduction to the speeds. So weGÇÖve settled on strafe speed as 90% of run speed across all suits.

Before anyone freaks out, this does not mean it is set in stone forevermore. It just means that we want to play the game with the settings we actually intended so we can properly judge them. There are a lot of updates to the game in 1.4 so weGÇÖll be watching very closely to see what we need to respond to :-)

A nice thing that also came out of this is that I found some errant numbers and a bug that were causing the heavy frames to move too slowly backwards as well as reducing their strafe speed. Both of those problems are now fixed as well.

Also as promised on IRC yesterday IGÇÖm also sharing the buffs weGÇÖve made to armour plates.

Couple of caveats:
- We'd like to introduce a penalty to shield tanking (most likely increasing the delay on shield recharge when you use shield extenders) but we wanted to buff armor first. We will be watching 1.4 closely and if necessary, add the shield delay in 1.5.
- Role skills still need to be updated to better take advantage of armor tanking.

* Adjusted Armor Plate attributes - HP bonus of 85/110/135 (Basic/Enhanced/Complex) and speed penalties of 2%/3%/5% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 93.5/121/148.5)
* Adjusted Ferroscale Plate attributes - HP bonus of 35/50/75 (with full skill bonuses this equates to 38.5/55/82.5)
* Adjusted Reactive Plate attributes - HP bonus of 25/40/60 and speed penalties of 0%/1%/1% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 27.5/44/66)

Cheers

CCP Wolfman

Regulators should be an improvement. Not a necessity to counter the penalties of another module.
Casual duel tanking... more dedicated shield tanking

Ahh get over you prejedice, Reactive plates are a sorry sight and i stand by my point.

Ferroscale you could say the same about the armour plates. You lose the speed penelty but you still have more hp than the extenders... and NOW the extenders might get a penelty.

ferroscale still needs an external module for reps, or a logi. Shields do not. right now shields have no penalty, PERIOD.

This means that any buffs to armor modules are an automatic buff proportionally to shield tankers. This is bad. It maintains the status quo of shields being superior to armor automatically.

reactive plates suck.

ferroscale still needs an external module for reps, or a logi. Shields do not. right now shields have no penalty, PERIOD.

This means that any buffs to armor modules are an automatic buff proportionally to shield tankers. This is bad. It maintains the status quo of shields being superior to armor automatically.

reactive plates suck.

Ferroscale you could say the same about the armour plates. You lose the speed penelty but you still have more hp than the extenders... and NOW the extenders might get a penelty.

Don't misunderstand, I'm happy with better Armor plates, but...

... I thought Plates give you more HP because they slow you down also.

A STD Plate gives you more HP than a PRO Extender. (Armor-Shield 1-0)

Armor needs a Repper (1-1)

Reppers work constantly while Shield is delayed (2-1)

Armor slows you down (2-2)

Shield extenders penalties... WHY EXACTLY?

The same IS said about armour plates.

CCP Wolfman:

I just wanted to know

1) Are commando suits priced how they should be or is this a mistake?
*basic cost the same as most advaanced suits, and much more than the sentitnel aswell

2) Is the amarrian trade-off working as intended?
*one slot sacrificed for a 30 HP gain?

Nerf Caldari again??? WHY??? If Caldari nerfing again i think go to long long AFK!!! I just wana play other cool games!

Then go nobody will notice.

Whoa, bombshell......gimme a second to write something up. You get a +1 sir.

Let me start with the strafing, I like this change, and I am glad to see that I might actually be able to shoot and hit speed tanked enemies now that they are getting a 10% speed reduction when strafing, definitely a good change.

About the possible shield recharge delay penalty for equipping extenders.....I like it. Quad stacking complex extenders will now essentially require the use of regulators, which will hurt dual tanking, which is good since it is kind of god-mode at the moment. I believe this penalty to be MUCH better than a scan profile increase, and will fully support it in the event you give us the details. My only question would be: Would regulators reduce the base shield delay, or the shield delay AFTER the extender penalty is introduced?

About armor plates, good. Good, but not great. The percentage of penalty increase is still greater than the percentage of armor given. By that I mean from the 2%/85 armor plate to the 3%/110 armor plate is a 1.5 speed penalty multiplier, but only a 1.29 armor increase multiplier. It isn't as bad as before, but it is still worth noticing. The difference is much bigger going from the 3%/110 armor plate to the 5%/135 armor plate. The speed penalty multiplier there is 1.6666.... and the armor multiplier is only 1.22. That's a greater speed penalty and a smaller armor increase compared to the jump from the basic to the enhanced, and is totally not worth it, I can see the enhanced plates being the go-to with these given stats.

The ferroscale stats are all I could ever hope for, so I think you did a great job there, but reactive plates will remain comparatively useless. It would be great if you made them a high-slot module, since armor tankers are still lacking such a mythical item, even though I understand damage mods are the "recommended" armor tank high mod.




Have you read my "New Class Bonus Ideas" thread yet? It's a good read, not entirely polished, but I compiled ideas from people in the comments section, so it's a moderately good idea of what the community would like to see.

Don't misunderstand, I'm happy with better Armor plates, but...

... I thought Plates give you more HP because they slow you down also.

A STD Plate gives you more HP than a PRO Extender. (Armor-Shield 1-0)

Armor needs a Repper (1-1)

Reppers work constantly while Shield is delayed (2-1)

Armor slows you down (2-2)

Shield extenders penalties... WHY EXACTLY?

Shield delay is easy to make negligable (3-2)

you can flux shields (3-3)

A lot more weapons are anti-armor (4-3)

shield reps cost no fitting (5-3)

Native shield rep speed is > most armor rep speed (6-3)

Don't misunderstand, I'm happy with better Armor plates, but...

... I thought Plates give you more HP because they slow you down also.

A STD Plate gives you more HP than a PRO Extender. (Armor-Shield 1-0)

Armor needs a Repper (1-1)

Reppers work constantly while Shield is delayed (2-1)

Armor slows you down (2-2)

Shield extenders penalties... WHY EXACTLY?

Although im happy for armor, can't wait to see the changes on the field... Shield regen is the only thing caldarI has and shouldn't be touched ....

If you can't kill a Caldari player before their shields start to regen (especially if fluxed, or depleted by a Scram) you're bad and shouldn't play shooters...

Would be a complete mistake to give shields a penalty CCP...

Although im happy for armor, can't wait to see the changes on the field... Shield regen is the only thing caldarI has and shouldn't be touched ....

If you can't kill a Caldari player before their shields start to regen (especially if fluxed, or depleted by a Scram) you're bad and shouldn't play shooters...

Would be a complete mistake to give shields a penalty CCP...

The answer there would be to tweak all of the racial bonuses. Make shield regen penalty -10% per level for caldari assaults. All racial bonuses seem to basically save/give about .75 to 1 whole extra slots worth of bonus if you use them correctly on a proto suit.

CCP should add a secondary set of racial bonuses, possibly a bonus that is the same for every racial suit of the race, because some people are quite content with their current role bonus, and the logistics role bonus is probably the only thing keeping the armor tanked logistics suits from being UP.

I appreciate the buffs; I do. I don't mean to sound ungrateful.

But it's a buff to the numbers of a fundamentally imbalanced number set.

Shield extenders, leaving the regeneration bonuses aside for now, follow a progression that heavily incentivises using higher grade extenders.

Basic: 22hp for 18cpu/3pg
Enhanced: 33hp for 36/6
Complex: 66hp for 54/11

shield graph (note the big kick at complex)

So, the grid benefits hover around 6HP per point of powergrid, or about 1.2hp per point of CPU required.

Plates, on the other hand, are seriously out of whack and will strongly discourage higher-level plates.

Basic: 65 85 for 10/1
Enhanced: 87 110 for 20/6
Complex: 115 135 for 30/12

armor graph

So the benefits are 85hp per grid at basic down to 11.25hp per unit of PG at complex, or 8.5hp down to 4.5hp per unit of CPU.

(you could also view it by how much CPU and PG used to achieve 1HP; either way)

The numbers clearly show that basic plates are way too much bang for the buck, which papers over any deeper problems with armour tanking by the expedient "here, have an OP module instead".

What's worse is that this module is easily available to shield suits as well, which defeats the purpose of the buff anyway, since it's trivially easy to scrounge up 10cpu+1pg for a massive boost in EHP.

And to cap it off, the speed penalty increases as you choose larger plates, which further exacerbates the problems inherent in actually going all in with armour tanking.

My solution is to rework the base numbers of armour plates, with the guideline being to provide 18hp for every point of PG required, and about 5hp per point of CPU, but to increase the bonus as the modules increase to incentivise using heavier plates.

Something like this:

Sponk's proposed armor graph

Basic: 85 for 10/1 50 for 10/3/-2%
Enhanced: 110 for 20/6 95 for 20/6/-3%
Complex: 135 for 30/12 180 for 40/11/-5%

...Basic plate is OP...

Liked it until you suggested higher fitting requirements when armor tanking is already very resource intensive.

Not at the same speed, at 90% of the max run (not sprint) speed of the dropsuit you are using. We're hoping to give the scouts some love in 1.5 but the vehicle rebalance is our priority so keep your fingers croseed we have time.

Thanks to Absolute Idiom II for extra graph erotica. Throw a few likes his way.

HP Fitting Efficiencies as at 1.4 (higher is better)

look at dat basic plate.

If you use my suggested stats as a comparison, it looks like this:

HP Fitting Efficiencies if Sponk were a dev

Note that the efficiency is pretty-much the same between tiers now, but of course complex stuff is more slot-efficient.

Don't misunderstand, I'm happy with better Armor plates, but...

... I thought Plates give you more HP because they slow you down also.

A STD Plate gives you more HP than a PRO Extender. (Armor-Shield 1-0)

Armor needs a Repper (1-1)

Reppers work constantly while Shield is delayed (2-1)

Armor slows you down (2-2)

Shield extenders penalties... WHY EXACTLY?

Don't misunderstand, I'm happy with better Armor plates, but...

... I thought Plates give you more HP because they slow you down also.

A STD Plate gives you more HP than a PRO Extender. (Armor-Shield 1-0)

Armor needs a Repper (1-1)

Reppers work constantly while Shield is delayed (2-1)

Armor slows you down (2-2)

Shield extenders penalties... WHY EXACTLY?

Thanks to Absolute Idiom II for extra graph erotica. Throw a few likes his way.

HP Fitting Efficiencies as at 1.4 (higher is better)

look at dat basic plate.

If you use my suggested stats as a comparison, it looks like this:

HP Fitting Efficiencies if Sponk were a dev

Note that the efficiency is pretty-much the same between tiers now, but of course complex stuff is more slot-efficient.

THE ARMOUR TANKERS SEEMS TO FORGET THAT SHIELD EXTENDERS TAKES THE SAME SLOT AS DAMAGE MODIFIERS .....SO IN EFFECT WE SACRIFICE GANK FOR TANK ! SOMETHING ARMOR TANKERS DONT HAVE TO DO ...YEA THIS IS A VERY BIG DEAL !!!!!


BTW thanks for the armour buff ...blows the dust off my heavy :)


PS ...shields are fine , don't **** with them .....

And another scout bites the dust

Don't get me wrong armor needs the buff so +1.
But scouts will again suffer. Armor tankers taking a reduced movement penalty will not feel the 10% reduction to strafe speeds. Scouts will. Increasing heavy turn speeds while using HEAVY weapons will slay us. U cannot whip a general electric minigun around like a smg in rl so why should u here?? Hmg should have range increase for sure as most hmg in rl use heavy rounds that travel farther and hit harder then ar but with reduced accuracy so please don't increase turn speed, that's stupid.
A shield regen delay for scouts will slay us.
Our hitbox. Is huge and lags behind us, not in front... Believe me u have to lead a sprinting deer to hit one not shoot behind one. Collision box catching on nothing while sprinting ???? Slays us and make no sense.

Sg and nk hit detection is terrible and slays us. Please we really need love and have gotten worse every update since chrome.

Great changes for armor but...

Help us Obi 1.5 Kenobe, your our only hope

And armour tankers have to stuff all of their tank mods into low slots so they have to sacrifice buffer for regen or vice versa.

Right now I'm worried about my energy weapons. Hopefully CCP will be keeping a close watch to see if the increase in 150 hp plates on the field start making them ineffective.

Once the shield penalty rolls shield tanks will have to use low slots for regulators.

Good - then they cant use armor or abuse speed and stamina mods.

That would aid in the separation of the differing philosophies.

1. the hp per PG/CPU ratio is off on plates. std/adv plates are alot more efficient that proto. you save alot of fittings if you take adv plates but lose only 27hp with max skills.

2. fero plates fitting costs should be lower, who is gonna fit that? they would be attractive to scouts but they wont be able to use it.

3. and reactive plates should rep 1/2/3 (std/adv/proto) per second. plate + rep should be better, but the difference is too big now imho, reactive plates need a bit more.

HONOUR TO THE WOLFMAN.

He should be an Amarrian Saint by now....

* Throws Honeyed Lamb outside Wolfmans cave*

"Best Dev ever!"

EDIT- Reactive Still terribad.....

....Meanwhile in Molden Heath, the slaughter of Scout specialists continues on it's Nth month with only more grim news on the horizon. According to sources, coupled with the homogenization of turn speeds across all specialist suits, everyone will now strafe 10% slower than before. While the other specialists rejoice or feel neutral about the matter, the already marginalized Scout specialists continue to shake their heads in disgust of these recent developments. Widespread dissatisfaction has already been expressed by said specialists, now they continue to wonder: 'What more are we supposed to do?'.

Is there respite coming to these courageous and determined mercenaries? Our latest numbers continue to see decline in their effectiveness in battle as can be seen here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=90055. Will there be an end to the Scout Suit's seemingly uncontrolled nose dive into oblivion? Stay tuned.

Hi guys,

* Adjusted Armor Plate attributes - HP bonus of 85/110/135 (Basic/Enhanced/Complex) and speed penalties of 2%/3%/5% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 93.5/121/148.5)
* Adjusted Ferroscale Plate attributes - HP bonus of 35/50/75 (with full skill bonuses this equates to 38.5/55/82.5)
* Adjusted Reactive Plate attributes - HP bonus of 25/40/60 and speed penalties of 0%/1%/1% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 27.5/44/66)

700 armor gallente mid frames are now the heavies of old.

I would be worried about this simply reversing the imbalance between armor and shields. The movement penalties being lowered and hp values being raised should solve the imbalance without a nerf to extenders. It would be my idea to leave current extenders as is and create new variants with said downsides, as this would put current extenders in the same area as the ferroscale. Heavy extenders with the downside would then be the classic plate equivalent.

Just a thought, I would rather see buffs than nerfs (when possible) for balancing, and I am always worried when I see both at the same time. I know shields had a long time on top, so if they have to take some time being stomped by armor, I guess its only fair. That said, I could be wrong about this, only time will tell. All in all, good work CCP, armor needed the buffs.

Whoa, bombshell......gimme a second to write something up. You get a +1 sir.

Let me start with the strafing, I like this change, and I am glad to see that I might actually be able to shoot and hit speed tanked enemies now that they are getting a 10% speed reduction when strafing, definitely a good change.

About the possible shield recharge delay penalty for equipping extenders.....I like it. Quad stacking complex extenders will now essentially require the use of regulators, which will hurt dual tanking, which is good since it is kind of god-mode at the moment. I believe this penalty to be MUCH better than a scan profile increase, and will fully support it in the event you give us the details. My only question would be: Would regulators reduce the base shield delay, or the shield delay AFTER the extender penalty is introduced?

About armor plates, good. Good, but not great. The percentage of penalty increase is still greater than the percentage of armor given. By that I mean from the 2%/85 armor plate to the 3%/110 armor plate is a 1.5 speed penalty multiplier, but only a 1.29 armor increase multiplier. It isn't as bad as before, but it is still worth noticing. The difference is much bigger going from the 3%/110 armor plate to the 5%/135 armor plate. The speed penalty multiplier there is 1.6666.... and the armor multiplier is only 1.22. That's a greater speed penalty and a smaller armor increase compared to the jump from the basic to the enhanced, and is totally not worth it, I can see the enhanced plates being the go-to with these given stats.

The ferroscale stats are all I could ever hope for, so I think you did a great job there, but reactive plates will remain comparatively useless. It would be great if you made them a high-slot module, since armor tankers are still lacking such a mythical item, even though I understand damage mods are the "recommended" armor tank high mod.




Have you read my "New Class Bonus Ideas" thread yet? It's a good read, not entirely polished, but I compiled ideas from people in the comments section, so it's a moderately good idea of what the community would like to see.

Eh, minus the Heavy / Dual Light weapon capabilities. Heavies still have their place.

That and... Yanno... Now being able to have 1,000 armor...

Devs like Wolfman are the reason why I will keep paying money to play.
I know there are others like him... I just can't remember their names.

[quote=CCP Wolfman]
.
- Role skills still need to be updated to better take advantage of armor tanking.


Please don't touch to the Gallente Assault the bonus to cpu and pg is the one one way to fit versus shield tankers !!!

But, very good job on armor mods.

Do your math again but make it go from 98% to 97% to 95% max speed.

Also, I assume fitting isn't changing on any of these? If so the basic plate will be a lot more efficient than the complex ferroscale.

Complex: 5% penalty, 200 armor

I'm afraid this would be overpowered.

Whilst I do appreciate that you scouts are getting screwed over, could you not spam a completely unrelated thread with complaints?
This is a thread for discussing the armour changes. Please stay on topic.

Same question as the last guy: did you change the repair rates on reactive? You didn't list that stat.

We had planned to raise the strafe speed from the 1.1 build to around 80% of run speed (it was lurking around 60-70% or so depending on frame). After seeing how popular (and fun) the higher strafe speeds have been we changed our minds. We still wanted to maintain a difference between forward and sideways movement but we didnGÇÖt want to make a significant reduction to the speeds. So weGÇÖve settled on strafe speed as 90% of run speed across all suits.

Reactive plates giving hp and rep bonuses still seem off to me. Reactive plates do at the same time what two other modules do. There are only three outcomes of this, balance wise.

1. Reactive plates are less efficient than just running a plate and rep.
2. Reactive plates are more efficient than just running a plate and rep.
3. Reactive plates are just as efficient as running a plate and rep.

In the first case, why do reactive plates exist again? In the second, why do we even have plates and reps if we can just use one module? In the third, why is it a thing again? There is no good way to balance reactive plates.

I think a better solution would be to make them do something special. Ideally I would like resists, but I would also be open to them being hi slot items that massively nerf shields in exchange for being neat for armor in some way, like resists or such.

For that matter, I would give my eye teeth for an explosive dampening hardener to take the edge off of AOE splash damage. Somethiing like that might give reactive plates a purpose. Direct hits still waste you, but they give you some resistance to splash from grenades, mass drivers, forge guns, etc

Whilst I do appreciate that you scouts are getting screwed over, could you not spam a completely unrelated thread with complaints? This is a thread for discussing the armour changes. Please stay on topic.

A shield nerf you say? Neat. And here I thought you were done fingerbanging my Caldari logi suit. Thanks, devs.

You guys really know how to make a player feel great about his SP investments. You should totally nerf my massdriver, uplinks, and nanohives next. I mean, why not, right? You guys pretty much do everything these forum crybabies want anyway; you might as well rip my heart out now and get it over with.

Also, it's very professional of you chaps to talk shield nerfs when you still haven't even fixed the shield recharge delay rate error you made on the Caldari logi suit.

I'm all for helping armor bros but this is a joke.

All hail NERF 514!

I had a feeling one of your kind would show up.
They specifically said that they would only do that nerf (and it's not a huge nerf anyway, though it depends on the numbers) IF the armour buffs weren't sufficient.
And I have a feeling they will be.

especially if they buff armor reppers too.

Hi guys,

A quick heads up for some upcoming changes in 1.4 to armour and movement.

Currently a bug has caused some of the movement speed modifiers on strafe to be ignored. This is good and bad. ItGÇÖs good because faster strafe speeds are cool. ItGÇÖs bad because right now strafe speed is at least 1:1 with run speed and this was not our intention. In keeping with normal physical limitations strafe was intended to be slower than run. We had planned to raise the strafe speed from the 1.1 build to around 80% of run speed (it was lurking around 60-70% or so depending on frame). After seeing how popular (and fun) the higher strafe speeds have been we changed our minds. We still wanted to maintain a difference between forward and sideways movement but we didnGÇÖt want to make a significant reduction to the speeds. So weGÇÖve settled on strafe speed as 90% of run speed across all suits.

Before anyone freaks out, this does not mean it is set in stone forevermore. It just means that we want to play the game with the settings we actually intended so we can properly judge them. There are a lot of updates to the game in 1.4 so weGÇÖll be watching very closely to see what we need to respond to :-)

A nice thing that also came out of this is that I found some errant numbers and a bug that were causing the heavy frames to move too slowly backwards as well as reducing their strafe speed. Both of those problems are now fixed as well.

Also as promised on IRC yesterday IGÇÖm also sharing the buffs weGÇÖve made to armour plates.

Couple of caveats:
- We'd like to introduce a penalty to shield tanking (most likely increasing the delay on shield recharge when you use shield extenders) but we wanted to buff armor first. We will be watching 1.4 closely and if necessary, add the shield delay in 1.5.
- Role skills still need to be updated to better take advantage of armor tanking.

* Adjusted Armor Plate attributes - HP bonus of 85/110/135 (Basic/Enhanced/Complex) and speed penalties of 2%/3%/5% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 93.5/121/148.5)
* Adjusted Ferroscale Plate attributes - HP bonus of 35/50/75 (with full skill bonuses this equates to 38.5/55/82.5)
* Adjusted Reactive Plate attributes - HP bonus of 25/40/60 and speed penalties of 0%/1%/1% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 27.5/44/66)

Cheers

CCP Wolfman

I had a feeling one of your kind would show up.
They specifically said that they would only do that nerf (and it's not a huge nerf anyway, though it depends on the numbers) IF the armour buffs weren't sufficient.
And I have a feeling they will be.

Soo..... what you're saying is that in addition to kb/m users being able to instantly change direction with no slow down whatsoever, they will now be able to do so at 90% of run speed? Is there a -1 button anywhere? 'Cause I'm not seeing it...

In case you didn't notice.
You get a INHERENT 25HP/S.
That's a very powerful regen.
We have to give up a slot to have just 5hp/s.

Don't complain.

Only thing I am worried about is people switching to mass drivers as the FOTM.

I think the majority of the Dust population is waaaay ahead of you, there.

Just curious, which suit do you have that doesn't have any high slots and really low shield regeneration?

Perhaps it is intended, but the repair rate on the reactive plates is not affected by the repair skills and suit skills that boost repair amount (unlike for repair modules).

Is this intended, Wolfman?

Noticed a few people ask this. This is not intended, we will check on it :-)

Since your here did fitting cost for reactives and ferroscales get changed?

Don't misunderstand, I'm happy with better Armor plates, but...

... I thought Plates give you more HP because they slow you down also.

A STD Plate gives you more HP than a PRO Extender. (Armor-Shield 1-0)

Armor needs a Repper (1-1)

Reppers work constantly while Shield is delayed (2-1)

Armor slows you down (2-2)

Shield extenders penalties... WHY EXACTLY?

Wolfman - Are you happy with armor repair speeds as they currently stand? Or are you wanting to see how the current changes pan out first?

Repair speed is still very slow currently, and this issue will be exacerbated by greater EHP levels without a corresponding bump to repair speed. Is the design intent here to encourage more use of logistics-based repair, or to also provide a self-sufficient armor tanking style that relies on repair modules?

I'm sure others here would also appreciate knowing your thoughts on this.

Hi guys,

A quick heads up for some upcoming changes in 1.4 to armour and movement.

Currently a bug has caused some of the movement speed modifiers on strafe to be ignored. This is good and bad. ItGÇÖs good because faster strafe speeds are cool. ItGÇÖs bad because right now strafe speed is at least 1:1 with run speed and this was not our intention. In keeping with normal physical limitations strafe was intended to be slower than run. We had planned to raise the strafe speed from the 1.1 build to around 80% of run speed (it was lurking around 60-70% or so depending on frame). After seeing how popular (and fun) the higher strafe speeds have been we changed our minds. We still wanted to maintain a difference between forward and sideways movement but we didnGÇÖt want to make a significant reduction to the speeds. So weGÇÖve settled on strafe speed as 90% of run speed across all suits.

Before anyone freaks out, this does not mean it is set in stone forevermore. It just means that we want to play the game with the settings we actually intended so we can properly judge them. There are a lot of updates to the game in 1.4 so weGÇÖll be watching very closely to see what we need to respond to :-)

A nice thing that also came out of this is that I found some errant numbers and a bug that were causing the heavy frames to move too slowly backwards as well as reducing their strafe speed. Both of those problems are now fixed as well.

Also as promised on IRC yesterday IGÇÖm also sharing the buffs weGÇÖve made to armour plates.

Couple of caveats:
- We'd like to introduce a penalty to shield tanking (most likely increasing the delay on shield recharge when you use shield extenders) but we wanted to buff armor first. We will be watching 1.4 closely and if necessary, add the shield delay in 1.5.
- Role skills still need to be updated to better take advantage of armor tanking.

* Adjusted Armor Plate attributes - HP bonus of 85/110/135 (Basic/Enhanced/Complex) and speed penalties of 2%/3%/5% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 93.5/121/148.5)
* Adjusted Ferroscale Plate attributes - HP bonus of 35/50/75 (with full skill bonuses this equates to 38.5/55/82.5)
* Adjusted Reactive Plate attributes - HP bonus of 25/40/60 and speed penalties of 0%/1%/1% (with full skill bonuses this equates to 27.5/44/66)

Cheers

CCP Wolfman

Have to agree with this. I'm a shield tanker and I don't wanna be bias. But I don't understand the shield extenders penalty. There a delay already once you lose Shields while armor regens immediately. I'm happy for the Armor tankers out there tho this seems to be fixing things to be more balanced and usable out there on the battlefield. Got a good feeling people will start complaining about gallente logis! Kudos to the fix

Just curious, which suit do you have that doesn't have any high slots and really low shield regeneration?

Only thing I am worried about is people switching to mass drivers as the FOTM.

I wouln't blame massdriver or slpash damage.I blame player skills..There is other ways to kill massdrivers for sure.

Noticed a few people ask this. This is not intended, we will check on it :-)

What about backpedaling speed? Right now it's too high dont' you think?

if Ferroscale Plates are changed to your proposed numbers no one will ever use them. Ever.

Why the hell do people leave out the Amarr. We're the best armour tankers in all of New Eden.

Wolfman - Are you happy with armor repair speeds as they currently stand? Or are you wanting to see how the current changes pan out first?

Repair speed is still very slow currently, and this issue will be exacerbated by greater EHP levels without a corresponding bump to repair speed. Is the design intent here to encourage more use of logistics-based repair, or to also provide a self-sufficient armor tanking style that relies on repair modules?

I'm sure others here would also appreciate knowing your thoughts on this.

I have mentioned before how basic plates are out of whack, which throws off the entire reactive and ferroscale lines.

If the basic plate were nerfed, and normal plates gave a flat -5% stamina penalty, then ferroscale plates would have a clear niche. At the moment, they just don't have any role where they are worth it.

Don't misunderstand, I'm happy with better Armor plates, but...

... I thought Plates give you more HP because they slow you down also.

A STD Plate gives you more HP than a PRO Extender. (Armor-Shield 1-0)

Armor needs a Repper (1-1)

Reppers work constantly while Shield is delayed (2-1)

Armor slows you down (2-2)

Shield extenders penalties... WHY EXACTLY?

A STD Plate gives you more HP than a PRO Extender. (Armor-Shield 1-0)

Armor needs a Repper (1-1)

Reppers work constantly while Shield is delayed (2-1)

Armor slows you down (2-2)

Wolfman, a quick note here on Ferroscale Plates. Now that movement penalties on armor plates have been reduced, while both plates have been given more hp, the benefit of ferroscale plates is greatly diminished. Which of the following do you think is the best choice?

Basic Armor Plates
93.5 hp, 2% movement penalty
10 CPU, 1 PG

Complex Ferroscale Plates
82.5 hp, 0% movement penalty
39 CPU, 14 PG

I'll take more hp and waaaaaaaaaaay less fitting cost and happily eat the 2% movement penalty. Don't get me wrong, I think the new numbers for Armor Plates are a big step in the right direction, but if Ferroscale Plates are changed to your proposed numbers no one will ever use them. Ever.

Ever.




Seriously. :) So maybe give them more hp?

Thanks for your time and keep it rolling!

Ya I can have 521 armor and still heal at 20/s.

Not at the same speed, at 90% of the max run (not sprint) speed of the dropsuit you are using. We're hoping to give the scouts some love in 1.5 but the vehicle rebalance is our priority so keep your fingers croseed we have time.