DUST Search - heads up for some armour and movement updates

SponkSponkSponk wrote:

I appreciate the buffs; I do. I don't mean to sound ungrateful.

But it's a buff to the numbers of a fundamentally imbalanced number set.

Shield extenders, leaving the regeneration bonuses aside for now, follow a progression that heavily incentivises using higher grade extenders.

Basic: 22hp for 18cpu/3pg
Enhanced: 33hp for 36/6
Complex: 66hp for 54/11

shield graph (note the big kick at complex)

So, the grid benefits hover around 6HP per point of powergrid, or about 1.2hp per point of CPU required.

Plates, on the other hand, are seriously out of whack and will strongly discourage higher-level plates.

Basic: 65 85 for 10/1
Enhanced: 87 110 for 20/6
Complex: ~~115~~ 135 for 30/12

armor graph

So the benefits are 85hp per grid at basic down to 11.25hp per unit of PG at complex, or 8.5hp down to 4.5hp per unit of CPU.

(you could also view it by how much CPU and PG used to achieve 1HP; either way)

The numbers clearly show that basic plates are way too much bang for the buck, which papers over any deeper problems with armour tanking by the expedient "here, have an OP module instead".

What's worse is that this module is easily available to shield suits as well, which defeats the purpose of the buff anyway, since it's trivially easy to scrounge up 10cpu+1pg for a massive boost in EHP.

And to cap it off, the speed penalty increases as you choose larger plates, which further exacerbates the problems inherent in actually going all in with armour tanking.

My solution is to rework the base numbers of armour plates, with the guideline being to provide 18hp for every point of PG required, and about 5hp per point of CPU, but to increase the bonus as the modules increase to incentivise using heavier plates.

Something like this:

Sponk's proposed armor graph

Basic: ~~85 for 10/1~~ 50 for 10/3/-2%
Enhanced: ~~110 for 20/6~~ 95 for 20/6/-3%
Complex: ~~135 for 30/12~~ 180 for 40/11/-5%

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1079	Posted - 2013.08.14 11:08:00 - [91] - Quote Pandora Mars wrote: Don't misunderstand, I'm happy with better Armor plates, but... ... I thought Plates give you more HP because they slow you down also. A STD Plate gives you more HP than a PRO Extender. (Armor-Shield 1-0) Armor needs a Repper (1-1) Reppers work constantly while Shield is delayed (2-1) Armor slows you down (2-2) Shield extenders penalties... WHY EXACTLY? Shield delay is easy to make negligable (3-2) you can flux shields (3-3) A lot more weapons are anti-armor (4-3) shield reps cost no fitting (5-3) Native shield rep speed is > most armor rep speed (6-3)
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1057	Posted - 2013.08.14 11:12:00 - [92] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Pandora Mars wrote: Don't misunderstand, I'm happy with better Armor plates, but... ... I thought Plates give you more HP because they slow you down also. A STD Plate gives you more HP than a PRO Extender. (Armor-Shield 1-0) Armor needs a Repper (1-1) Reppers work constantly while Shield is delayed (2-1) Armor slows you down (2-2) Shield extenders penalties... WHY EXACTLY? Shield delay is easy to make negligable (3-2) you can flux shields (3-3) A lot more weapons are anti-armor (4-3) shield reps cost no fitting (5-3) Native shield rep speed is > most armor rep speed (6-3) I can't tell if you anti armor/pro shields :!
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 385	Posted - 2013.08.14 11:21:00 - [93] - Quote Although im happy for armor, can't wait to see the changes on the field... Shield regen is the only thing caldarI has and shouldn't be touched .... If you can't kill a Caldari player before their shields start to regen (especially if fluxed, or depleted by a Scram) you're bad and shouldn't play shooters... Would be a complete mistake to give shields a penalty CCP...
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1057	Posted - 2013.08.14 11:30:00 - [94] - Quote Pandora Mars wrote: Don't misunderstand, I'm happy with better Armor plates, but... ... I thought Plates give you more HP because they slow you down also. A STD Plate gives you more HP than a PRO Extender. (Armor-Shield 1-0) Armor needs a Repper (1-1) Reppers work constantly while Shield is delayed (2-1) Armor slows you down (2-2) Shield extenders penalties... WHY EXACTLY? -Shield repair is 2-3 times larger than armor repair. -There are 12 weapons to kill armor, only 9 to kill shields. From that 12 you will find the most powerful weapons in the game, this includes the forge gun, locus grenades, the mass driver, and the HMG. -Armor has a rep tool, shields have a rep vehicle. -Armor makes you slower (already mentioned) but there is a bucket load of disadvantages that come from being slower. -Shield tanking has modules on high and low -Shield tanking does not have to compromise their tank to use CPU/PG modules, while armor tanking is extremely resource intensive, talk about the 1-2 hit combo. -Shield tanking there a 30% damage reduction against explosives. -Armor tanking gets a 10-20% damage reduction against some rifles. -Armor gets higher HP. -When shields drop you don't die, when armor drops you die. Let's sum it up: Shields- 9 Armor- 5
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 2684	Posted - 2013.08.14 11:30:00 - [95] - Quote inb4 shield tankers cry for respecs so they can skill into new FotM armor tank.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1080	Posted - 2013.08.14 11:30:00 - [96] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Although im happy for armor, can't wait to see the changes on the field... Shield regen is the only thing caldarI has and shouldn't be touched .... If you can't kill a Caldari player before their shields start to regen (especially if fluxed, or depleted by a Scram) you're bad and shouldn't play shooters... Would be a complete mistake to give shields a penalty CCP... The answer there would be to tweak all of the racial bonuses. Make shield regen penalty -10% per level for caldari assaults. All racial bonuses seem to basically save/give about .75 to 1 whole extra slots worth of bonus if you use them correctly on a proto suit.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1057	Posted - 2013.08.14 11:32:00 - [97] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Although im happy for armor, can't wait to see the changes on the field... Shield regen is the only thing caldarI has and shouldn't be touched .... If you can't kill a Caldari player before their shields start to regen (especially if fluxed, or depleted by a Scram) you're bad and shouldn't play shooters... Would be a complete mistake to give shields a penalty CCP... Shields needs a penalty, and a delay penalty means you are forced to use regulators. Luckily for you those are low slots modules, instead of high, also you don't know how big the penalty is, or if it is percentage based.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1057	Posted - 2013.08.14 11:37:00 - [98] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Although im happy for armor, can't wait to see the changes on the field... Shield regen is the only thing caldarI has and shouldn't be touched .... If you can't kill a Caldari player before their shields start to regen (especially if fluxed, or depleted by a Scram) you're bad and shouldn't play shooters... Would be a complete mistake to give shields a penalty CCP... The answer there would be to tweak all of the racial bonuses. Make shield regen penalty -10% per level for caldari assaults. All racial bonuses seem to basically save/give about .75 to 1 whole extra slots worth of bonus if you use them correctly on a proto suit. CCP should add a secondary set of racial bonuses, possibly a bonus that is the same for every racial suit of the race, because some people are quite content with their current role bonus, and the logistics role bonus is probably the only thing keeping the armor tanked logistics suits from being UP.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 699	Posted - 2013.08.14 11:54:00 - [99] - Quote I like the plate changes, and am looking forward to trying them out with my heavy. From the raw math, most of my fits just got stockier, with a few taking some pretty nice sized HP jumps. This looks like a good first step in trying to get better balance between armor and shield tankers.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1080	Posted - 2013.08.14 11:55:00 - [100] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Although im happy for armor, can't wait to see the changes on the field... Shield regen is the only thing caldarI has and shouldn't be touched .... If you can't kill a Caldari player before their shields start to regen (especially if fluxed, or depleted by a Scram) you're bad and shouldn't play shooters... Would be a complete mistake to give shields a penalty CCP... The answer there would be to tweak all of the racial bonuses. Make shield regen penalty -10% per level for caldari assaults. All racial bonuses seem to basically save/give about .75 to 1 whole extra slots worth of bonus if you use them correctly on a proto suit. CCP should add a secondary set of racial bonuses, possibly a bonus that is the same for every racial suit of the race, because some people are quite content with their current role bonus, and the logistics role bonus is probably the only thing keeping the armor tanked logistics suits from being UP. Are you suggesting something like a tiericide? Where each class then gets 3 varied roles with respective bonuses rather than tiers? Example: Minmatar Assault STD/ADV/PRO goes to Minmatar Ak.0 Minmatar Ak.1 Minmatar Ak.2 Then they would all get the same basic stats +/- 10% here or there. But you would get one that is more 'combat' oriented, that focuses a bit more on survivability. One would be 'attack' oriented that has more speed/stealth and hits harder and less eHP. Then you'd also have a kind of wildcard with a unique niche. So for minmatar assault it might be extra stamina. The reason you would progress might be an issue though

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion 190	Posted - 2013.08.14 12:07:00 - [101] - Quote I appreciate the buffs; I do. I don't mean to sound ungrateful. But it's a buff to the numbers of a fundamentally imbalanced number set. Shield extenders, leaving the regeneration bonuses aside for now, follow a progression that heavily incentivises using higher grade extenders. Basic: 22hp for 18cpu/3pg Enhanced: 33hp for 36/6 Complex: 66hp for 54/11 shield graph (note the big kick at complex) So, the grid benefits hover around 6HP per point of powergrid, or about 1.2hp per point of CPU required. Plates, on the other hand, are seriously out of whack and will strongly discourage higher-level plates. Basic: 65 85 for 10/1 Enhanced: 87 110 for 20/6 Complex: ~~115~~ 135 for 30/12 armor graph So the benefits are 85hp per grid at basic down to 11.25hp per unit of PG at complex, or 8.5hp down to 4.5hp per unit of CPU. (you could also view it by how much CPU and PG used to achieve 1HP; either way) The numbers clearly show that basic plates are way too much bang for the buck, which papers over any deeper problems with armour tanking by the expedient "here, have an OP module instead". What's worse is that this module is easily available to shield suits as well, which defeats the purpose of the buff anyway, since it's trivially easy to scrounge up 10cpu+1pg for a massive boost in EHP. And to cap it off, the speed penalty increases as you choose larger plates, which further exacerbates the problems inherent in actually going all in with armour tanking. My solution is to rework the base numbers of armour plates, with the guideline being to provide 18hp for every point of PG required, and about 5hp per point of CPU, but to increase the bonus as the modules increase to incentivise using heavier plates. Something like this: Sponk's proposed armor graph Basic: ~~85 for 10/1~~ 50 for 10/3/-2% Enhanced: ~~110 for 20/6~~ 95 for 20/6/-3% Complex: ~~135 for 30/12~~ 180 for 40/11/-5%
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1060	Posted - 2013.08.14 12:17:00 - [102] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: I appreciate the buffs; I do. I don't mean to sound ungrateful. But it's a buff to the numbers of a fundamentally imbalanced number set. Shield extenders, leaving the regeneration bonuses aside for now, follow a progression that heavily incentivises using higher grade extenders. Basic: 22hp for 18cpu/3pg Enhanced: 33hp for 36/6 Complex: 66hp for 54/11 shield graph (note the big kick at complex) So, the grid benefits hover around 6HP per point of powergrid, or about 1.2hp per point of CPU required. Plates, on the other hand, are seriously out of whack and will strongly discourage higher-level plates. Basic: 65 85 for 10/1 Enhanced: 87 110 for 20/6 Complex: ~~115~~ 135 for 30/12 armor graph So the benefits are 85hp per grid at basic down to 11.25hp per unit of PG at complex, or 8.5hp down to 4.5hp per unit of CPU. (you could also view it by how much CPU and PG used to achieve 1HP; either way) The numbers clearly show that basic plates are way too much bang for the buck, which papers over any deeper problems with armour tanking by the expedient "here, have an OP module instead". What's worse is that this module is easily available to shield suits as well, which defeats the purpose of the buff anyway, since it's trivially easy to scrounge up 10cpu+1pg for a massive boost in EHP. And to cap it off, the speed penalty increases as you choose larger plates, which further exacerbates the problems inherent in actually going all in with armour tanking. My solution is to rework the base numbers of armour plates, with the guideline being to provide 18hp for every point of PG required, and about 5hp per point of CPU, but to increase the bonus as the modules increase to incentivise using heavier plates. Something like this: Sponk's proposed armor graph Basic: ~~85 for 10/1~~ 50 for 10/3/-2% Enhanced: ~~110 for 20/6~~ 95 for 20/6/-3% Complex: ~~135 for 30/12~~ 180 for 40/11/-5% Liked it until you suggested higher fitting requirements when armor tanking is already very resource intensive.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1080	Posted - 2013.08.14 12:19:00 - [103] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: ...Basic plate is OP... I was looking at this too. Its unkown, I think, still whether fittings will be changed for the alternative armor modules at the same time because 2% speed for a cheap fitting plate having more HP than a complex ferroscale or reactive makes it pretty desirable. However, often times, due to the low fitting requirements, there will still be more PG/CPU left over after fitting most of what you need, the question then becomes, how much tank do you want, or how much do you want to buy with speed. Still, by taking a basic mod, a 'shield tanker' is still sacrificing a slot that could go toward recharging his shield faster, adding a speed mod, or forgoing a dampener (which IMO will be more important for shorter ranged players soon).
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1080	Posted - 2013.08.14 12:21:00 - [104] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: ...armor is OP... Liked it until you suggested higher fitting requirements when armor tanking is already very resource intensive. Yeah, the purpose of how Armor tanking 1.0 was supposed to work is that the low PG/CPU lets you fit higher damage weapons/damage mods, which means that while you are slower, your higher DPS is a big advantage. There or game issues outside of suits/speed that makes this not quite the advantage that it seems it should be on paper though.
Chilled Pill Pro Hic Immortalis League of Infamy 166	Posted - 2013.08.14 12:28:00 - [105] - Quote ....Meanwhile in Molden Heath, the slaughter of Scout specialists continues on it's Nth month with only more grim news on the horizon. According to sources, coupled with the homogenization of turn speeds across all specialist suits, everyone will now strafe 10% slower than before. While the other specialists rejoice or feel neutral about the matter, the already marginalized Scout specialists continue to shake their heads in disgust of these recent developments. Widespread dissatisfaction has already been expressed by said specialists, now they continue to wonder: 'What more are we supposed to do?'. Is there respite coming to these courageous and determined mercenaries? Our latest numbers continue to see decline in their effectiveness in battle as can be seen here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=90055&find=unread. Will there be an end to the Scout Suit's seemingly uncontrolled nose dive into oblivion? Stay tuned.
Ruthless Lee The Eliminators 43	Posted - 2013.08.14 12:41:00 - [106] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: FLAYLOCK Steve wrote: So all suits will strafe at same speed? Like will all suits strafe at 90% or just the 90% of each specific suit? Like scout will strafe at 90% of their speed. And when will the scouts have some love? Give them a buff on speed. The assaults are almost as fast Not at the same speed, at 90% of the max run (not sprint) speed of the dropsuit you are using. We're hoping to give the scouts some love in 1.5 but the vehicle rebalance is our priority so keep your fingers croseed we have time. It'd be nice if you could fit scouts in there for 1.5. Really nice ... especially considering that so many heavy and assault players are going to see their HP go up with 1.4, now.
Midas Fool Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 108	Posted - 2013.08.14 12:43:00 - [107] - Quote This really puts armor tanking in a nice spot. I think it's about even with shields now. If you make shield penalties please make them based around signature radius. More shields = more signature = easier to detect by dropsuit and active scanners. No more of this changing basic damage-dealing/recieving mechanics. At least for a while. LOL at people already suggesting additional changes to armor. Lets see how it works first!!! In the meantime I'm going to love these new plates on my Caldari Assault suit
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 945	Posted - 2013.08.14 12:44:00 - [108] - Quote Considering reactive and ferroscale are much weaker than normal plates I'd like to see the fitting requirements made the same across the different armor types. Usually the higher fitting chooses for me and I stick to regular plates.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion 191	Posted - 2013.08.14 12:50:00 - [109] - Quote Thanks to Absolute Idiom II for extra graph erotica. Throw a few likes his way. HP Fitting Efficiencies as at 1.4 (higher is better) look at dat basic plate. If you use my suggested stats as a comparison, it looks like this: HP Fitting Efficiencies if Sponk were a dev Note that the efficiency is pretty-much the same between tiers now, but of course complex stuff is more slot-efficient.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 451	Posted - 2013.08.14 12:50:00 - [110] - Quote Time we armour tankers got some luv. Is there any changes coming with the armour rep modules. I think a couple of extra HP per second on each level would just about make us balanced with the shield users. But a good start here Wolfy. Respect.

Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1082	Posted - 2013.08.14 12:56:00 - [111] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Thanks to Absolute Idiom II for extra graph erotica. Throw a few likes his way. HP Fitting Efficiencies as at 1.4 (higher is better) look at dat basic plate. If you use my suggested stats as a comparison, it looks like this: HP Fitting Efficiencies if Sponk were a dev Note that the efficiency is pretty-much the same between tiers now, but of course complex stuff is more slot-efficient. Sure fitting efficiencies make sense...until your suit is full and you have plenty of fitting space left over. You don't get an extra reward for going into battle with less fitting used. Sure it could save you isk, but that is a trade off unrelated to fitting efficiency or tanking balance. I'm fine with a downside of armor being reduced efficiency at higher meta levels compared to shield.
Den-tredje Baron The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 184	Posted - 2013.08.14 12:59:00 - [112] - Quote Pandora Mars wrote: Don't misunderstand, I'm happy with better Armor plates, but... ... I thought Plates give you more HP because they slow you down also. A STD Plate gives you more HP than a PRO Extender. (Armor-Shield 1-0) Armor needs a Repper (1-1) Reppers work constantly while Shield is delayed (2-1) Armor slows you down (2-2) Shield extenders penalties... WHY EXACTLY? Shield recharges much faster than armour. (2-3) ^^ there you go
Denidil Taureran Turalyon 514 20	Posted - 2013.08.14 13:12:00 - [113] - Quote Buff armor reps too!
Lazy Scumbag The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 24	Posted - 2013.08.14 13:21:00 - [114] - Quote Pandora Mars wrote: Don't misunderstand, I'm happy with better Armor plates, but... ... I thought Plates give you more HP because they slow you down also. A STD Plate gives you more HP than a PRO Extender. (Armor-Shield 1-0) Armor needs a Repper (1-1) Reppers work constantly while Shield is delayed (2-1) Armor slows you down (2-2) Shield extenders penalties... WHY EXACTLY? Armor plates are all penalty... How many swarms Gallente protos have you seen? Must be some correlation there. Make an alt and try armor as is, then maybe you will begin to understand. Slow rep speed combined with speed penalty combined with the fact that every weapon with splash damage (minus flux grenades) gets a substantial bonus against armor. Nothing stopping you from throwing on a plate or two.
Captain Africa Clone1 GRIM MARCH 123	Posted - 2013.08.14 13:27:00 - [115] - Quote THE ARMOUR TANKERS SEEMS TO FORGET THAT SHIELD EXTENDERS TAKES THE SAME SLOT AS DAMAGE MODIFIERS .....SO IN EFFECT WE SACRIFICE GANK FOR TANK ! SOMETHING ARMOR TANKERS DONT HAVE TO DO ...YEA THIS IS A VERY BIG DEAL !!!!! btw thanks for the armour buff ...blows the dust of my heavy :)
Absolute Idiom II No Free Pass 419	Posted - 2013.08.14 13:42:00 - [116] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Thanks to Absolute Idiom II for extra graph erotica. Throw a few likes his way. HP Fitting Efficiencies as at 1.4 (higher is better) look at dat basic plate. If you use my suggested stats as a comparison, it looks like this: HP Fitting Efficiencies if Sponk were a dev Note that the efficiency is pretty-much the same between tiers now, but of course complex stuff is more slot-efficient. I fully support this product and/or service. It really would be nicer to see some semblance of grouping/pattern with armor plates. Especially as currently this leaves the basic plates able to be easily used by shield fits for a massive boost in HP (bigger than complex extender) and a tiny penalty to speed.
Lucifalic Baked n Loaded 48	Posted - 2013.08.14 13:49:00 - [117] - Quote And another scout bites the dust Don't get me wrong armor needs the buff so +1. But scouts will again suffer. Armor tankers taking a reduced movement penalty will not feel the 10% reduction to strafe speeds. Scouts will. Increasing heavy turn speeds while using HEAVY weapons will slay us. U cannot whip a general electric minigun around like a smg in rl so why should u here?? Hmg should have range increase for sure as most hmg in rl use heavy rounds that travel farther and hit harder then ar but with reduced accuracy so please don't increase turn speed, that's stupid. A shield regen delay for scouts will slay us. Our hitbox. Is huge and lags behind us, not in front... Believe me u have to lead a sprinting deer to hit one not shoot behind one. Collision box catching on nothing while sprinting ???? Slays us and make no sense. Sg and nk hit detection is terrible and slays us. Please we really need love and have gotten worse every update since chrome. Great changes for armor but... Help us Obi 1.5 Kenobe, your our only hope
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1409	Posted - 2013.08.14 13:52:00 - [118] - Quote Captain Africa Clone1 wrote: THE ARMOUR TANKERS SEEMS TO FORGET THAT SHIELD EXTENDERS TAKES THE SAME SLOT AS DAMAGE MODIFIERS .....SO IN EFFECT WE SACRIFICE GANK FOR TANK ! SOMETHING ARMOR TANKERS DONT HAVE TO DO ...YEA THIS IS A VERY BIG DEAL !!!!! BTW thanks for the armour buff ...blows the dust off my heavy :) PS ...shields are fine , don't **** with them ..... And armour tankers have to stuff all of their tank mods into low slots so they have to sacrifice buffer for regen or vice versa. Right now I'm worried about my energy weapons. Hopefully CCP will be keeping a close watch to see if the increase in 150 hp plates on the field start making them ineffective.
Ruthless Lee The Eliminators 43	Posted - 2013.08.14 13:59:00 - [119] - Quote Lucifalic wrote: And another scout bites the dust Don't get me wrong armor needs the buff so +1. But scouts will again suffer. Armor tankers taking a reduced movement penalty will not feel the 10% reduction to strafe speeds. Scouts will. Increasing heavy turn speeds while using HEAVY weapons will slay us. U cannot whip a general electric minigun around like a smg in rl so why should u here?? Hmg should have range increase for sure as most hmg in rl use heavy rounds that travel farther and hit harder then ar but with reduced accuracy so please don't increase turn speed, that's stupid. A shield regen delay for scouts will slay us. Our hitbox. Is huge and lags behind us, not in front... Believe me u have to lead a sprinting deer to hit one not shoot behind one. Collision box catching on nothing while sprinting ???? Slays us and make no sense. Sg and nk hit detection is terrible and slays us. Please we really need love and have gotten worse every update since chrome. Great changes for armor but... Help us Obi 1.5 Kenobe, your our only hope Yeah, with the changes to aiming, turn speed and armor coming in the next update ... they shouldn't be putting off the scout fixes past 1.4, honestly ... much less 1.5. Or later. And I think the changes for 1.4 will be good for the game as a whole ... but I see a lot of problems ahead for scouts.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1061	Posted - 2013.08.14 13:59:00 - [120] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: Captain Africa Clone1 wrote: THE ARMOUR TANKERS SEEMS TO FORGET THAT SHIELD EXTENDERS TAKES THE SAME SLOT AS DAMAGE MODIFIERS .....SO IN EFFECT WE SACRIFICE GANK FOR TANK ! SOMETHING ARMOR TANKERS DONT HAVE TO DO ...YEA THIS IS A VERY BIG DEAL !!!!! BTW thanks for the armour buff ...blows the dust off my heavy :) PS ...shields are fine , don't **** with them ..... And armour tankers have to stuff all of their tank mods into low slots so they have to sacrifice buffer for regen or vice versa. Right now I'm worried about my energy weapons. Hopefully CCP will be keeping a close watch to see if the increase in 150 hp plates on the field start making them ineffective. Once the shield penalty rolls shield tanks will have to use low slots for regulators.



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