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Do Mass Drivers really need Six Shots?

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Cosgar ParagonX 3711	Posted - 2013.08.01 16:14:00 - [361] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Actually I only play a couple times a week anymore and thats only with friends....this game is just bad. That being said I agree with Zdub however I also dont think this change would ever be done as CCP would take the easy way out and the easiest way to balance the MD is to lower the AOE... As far as the AOE yea......88 (over 100 actual dmg to armor) AOE dmg in a larger than 8 meter radius is so balanced BTW lrn2read ....... when someone gives you a hypothetical situation to show the same logic your using to defend the MD on a different weapon that is KNOWN to be OP then its just that....a hypethetical situation that is meant to illustrate a point. You have obviously never actually debated anyone because hypotheticals are essential to pointing out flaws in an argument (which is why it is so heavily used in philosophy). I'd be okay with Zdub's proposed changes, I even made a topic on it a while back. Base damage and radius would need some adjustments to compensate but if it cuts down on the whining I'll take the hit. The problem with hypotheticals is that it's the only argument being used and not enough facts to back it up. The MD already has terrible DPS compared to an AR, virtually no ammo, it's a CPU/PG hog that makes you sacrifice tank, requires trajectory, and it's the 3rd slowest reload speed for a light weapon. There's too many double standards attached to the weapon as well because of how it operates compared to something like an AR like using it makes you cheap or something. It's a niche weapon with a ton of drawbacks and for people to be good with it to the point that someone can make a troll thread that goes 18 pages, someone was good enough to **** off ol' ReGnYuM along with everyone else claiming such a gimped weapon is OP. Whoever that masshole was, I hope I run into him/her so they can give me some pointers.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 291	Posted - 2013.08.01 16:19:00 - [362] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Actually I only play a couple times a week anymore and thats only with friends....this game is just bad. That being said I agree with Zdub however I also dont think this change would ever be done as CCP would take the easy way out and the easiest way to balance the MD is to lower the AOE... As far as the AOE yea......88 (over 100 actual dmg to armor) AOE dmg in a larger than 8 meter radius is so balanced So you hardly play because the game is so bad but you know exactly how to balance it. Thanks for sharing. Sharing is caring Notice you still never answered. If the AOE is too low how is it going to be used for area denial
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 706	Posted - 2013.08.01 16:29:00 - [363] - Quote Cosgar wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Actually I only play a couple times a week anymore and thats only with friends....this game is just bad. That being said I agree with Zdub however I also dont think this change would ever be done as CCP would take the easy way out and the easiest way to balance the MD is to lower the AOE... As far as the AOE yea......88 (over 100 actual dmg to armor) AOE dmg in a larger than 8 meter radius is so balanced BTW lrn2read ....... when someone gives you a hypothetical situation to show the same logic your using to defend the MD on a different weapon that is KNOWN to be OP then its just that....a hypethetical situation that is meant to illustrate a point. You have obviously never actually debated anyone because hypotheticals are essential to pointing out flaws in an argument (which is why it is so heavily used in philosophy). I'd be okay with Zdub's proposed changes, I even made a topic on it a while back. Base damage and radius would need some adjustments to compensate but if it cuts down on the whining I'll take the hit. The problem with hypotheticals is that it's the only argument being used and not enough facts to back it up. The MD already has terrible DPS compared to an AR, virtually no ammo, it's a CPU/PG hog that makes you sacrifice tank, requires trajectory, and it's the 3rd slowest reload speed for a light weapon. There's too many double standards attached to the weapon as well because of how it operates compared to something like an AR like using it makes you cheap or something. It's a niche weapon with a ton of drawbacks and for people to be good with it to the point that someone can make a troll thread that goes 18 pages, someone was good enough to **** off ol' ReGnYuM along with everyone else claiming such a gimped weapon is OP. Whoever that masshole was, I hope I run into him/her so they can give me some pointers. Wish you could have seen Tiel play with the MD back before he stopped playing Dust....... He 1 shot adv heavies with direct hits or 2 shotted them with AOE. He used entire clips on the bowl and would get 12 kills easy. He one shot any militia suit with explosive radius only........ Also regarding area denial........5.0 radius for a fully upgraded MD is still area denial...just not such a large area that you can miss by 7 meters and still hit the person. Honestly this probably wouldnt even be an issue if there were actual objects you could duck behind...however this game by a large is all open fields. Very little cover anywhere....I can find more cover on blood gultch (Halo CE) than some of these maps have.
Cosgar ParagonX 3719	Posted - 2013.08.01 16:40:00 - [364] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Wish you could have seen Tiel play with the MD back before he stopped playing Dust....... He 1 shot adv heavies with direct hits or 2 shotted them with AOE. He used entire clips on the bowl and would get 12 kills easy. He one shot any militia suit with explosive radius only........ I was almost to that point myself, but never had enough PG to fit the Freedom. Best I could do was clear out the bowl while collecting a few kills. The city map used to be fun too when the grenade dropoff was more drastic than now. I would camp A while lobbing grenades into B to clear it out while a heavy would sit by the CRU and some assaults would wait in the next room to clean up any stragglers. See? This is what the MD is supposed to do, make people scatter like roaches. Blast radius/damage was a bit too high back then (I guess to compensate for the terrain glitch) and they got it perfectly balanced now in Uprising. The only real change I could see happening is the old dropoff that made you have to arc your barrel. Overall it's a fun weapon to use and I probably like the MD just as much as you like the ScR. I get OHK'd by Imperials all the time but I don't complain because I respect people that invest the time and SP to be good with the weapon, why not the same for the MD?
Robocop Junior The Surrogates Of War 108	Posted - 2013.08.01 16:40:00 - [365] - Quote So I tried the basic Mass Driver for the first time. This thing is pretty good guys you should all try it. 28 kills 17 assists 2 deaths (suicides). A couple times I was just trying to scare the guy and I killed him by accident another time I just spammed it into the redline and I killed someone in local chat. You should all really start using it and keep it up one more page til nerf:D
Cosgar ParagonX 3720	Posted - 2013.08.01 16:53:00 - [366] - Quote Robocop Junior wrote: So I tried the basic Mass Driver for the first time. This thing is pretty good guys you should all try it. 28 kills 17 assists 2 deaths (suicides). A couple times I was just trying to scare the guy and I killed him by accident another time I just spammed it into the redline and I killed someone in local chat. You should all really start using it and keep it up one more page til nerf:D If the MD was going to get nerfed, wouldn't have been included with the flaylock and contact grenades in that devblog about explosives? Also, did you see that chart? CCP doesn't base nerfs on 20 page QQ fests, they like to use stuff like numbers, equations, and charts.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1417	Posted - 2013.08.01 17:02:00 - [367] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Robocop Junior wrote: So I tried the basic Mass Driver for the first time. This thing is pretty good guys you should all try it. 28 kills 17 assists 2 deaths (suicides). A couple times I was just trying to scare the guy and I killed him by accident another time I just spammed it into the redline and I killed someone in local chat. You should all really start using it and keep it up one more page til nerf:D If the MD was going to get nerfed, wouldn't have been included with the flaylock and contact grenades in that devblog about explosives? Also, did you see that chart? CCP doesn't base nerfs on 20 page QQ fests, they like to use stuff like numbers, equations, and charts. They balance purely by forum QQ... there hasn't been enough utilization of the mass driver yet to really get the forum QQ going... but I suspect it'll there eventually.
Robocop Junior The Surrogates Of War 108	Posted - 2013.08.01 17:03:00 - [368] - Quote No idea I didn't bother reading after page 1 lol. Was just taking a shot in the dark. You know what happens when you shoot a MD in the dark? The dark has to run to recharge it's shield that is the only reason the sun comes up. How bout 50 pages because I have a ton of made up scenarios left still:D
Celeste Cyra Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.08.01 17:07:00 - [369] - Quote So all I'm getting out of this is they need to unnerf the flaylock because this wasn't as big of an issue 2 days ago. Doing what you guys were all whining for didn't satisfy your needy asses just like in every MMO and game that tries to "balance for the players". The Achilles heel that causes disappointment is taking away existing capabilities rather then adding new counters. All of the complaints about explosives could easily be countered by a jetpack, rappeling line or instant barrier. I highly doubt that they will go that route though.
Justin Tymes Raymond James Corp 267	Posted - 2013.08.01 17:10:00 - [370] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Why do people that play PC and use it as a badge of honour QQ They should be the ones living by HTFU and adapt or die but yet they make threads and pacts and whatever else to tone down weapons instead of finding ways to beat them. Now I think the MD can be a bit scary but I am a scout and having to dodge that many shots can be an issue if there isnt much cover close but if I am in a group and can flank or if I have a bit of high ground I am fine. I asked those jokers why a group of AR's couldnt keep their distance and defeat Flaylock users and all you heard was silence. IF PC is so hard and you guys are so good then defeat them, dont run crying. I love it how you guys act like regnum does not run by you and just completely roflstomp all of you with ease. Just because he can roflstomp you this doesnt mean the weapon your using is balanced. It has too much AOE for the dmg given (because AOE of 8+ meters is so balanced )...so either the dmg need to be decreased or the AOE needs to be decreased (decreased AOE would be better than dmg IMO). Just because there are people who could roflstomp the flaylock users that doesnt mean the flaylock was balanced. Noobs need to step back and stop talking when people who actually know a thing or two about FPS balance start talking. Yawn - here you come again. I never claimed the Flaylock didnt need balancing and I am not sure yet if the MD needs to be balanced again. Let me ask a question - If you turn down the AOE (damage or radius) then what is the point of the weapon? And once again the arguments against the Flaylock werent really addressed other than taking away much of its killing power and why is that - becuase many ran into its range instead of fighting outside of it. Now you can blame that on CCP's poor render of models and lag etc or you can blame it on people just wanting to run into a killing distance they feel comfortable with and dont want to change the way they play. Back to the topic of calling people out - if you guys were that good you wouldnt be playing Dust anyway so stop the we are PC we are ultimate rubbish. Carry on discussing the MD. Actually I only play a couple times a week anymore and thats only with friends....this game is just bad. That being said I agree with Zdub however I also dont think this change would ever be done as CCP would take the easy way out and the easiest way to balance the MD is to lower the AOE... As far as the AOE yea......88 (over 100 actual dmg to armor) AOE dmg in a larger than 8 meter radius is so balanced BTW lrn2read ....... when someone gives you a hypothetical situation to show the same logic your using to defend the MD on a different weapon that is KNOWN to be OP then its just that....a hypethetical situation that is meant to illustrate a point. You have obviously never actually debated anyone because hypotheticals are essential to pointing out flaws in an argument (which is why it is so heavily used in philosophy). Nerfed against shields with a slow reload time, If you can't out DPS an Assault MD, you need to get better.

Cosgar ParagonX 3723	Posted - 2013.08.01 17:13:00 - [371] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Cosgar wrote: Robocop Junior wrote: So I tried the basic Mass Driver for the first time. This thing is pretty good guys you should all try it. 28 kills 17 assists 2 deaths (suicides). A couple times I was just trying to scare the guy and I killed him by accident another time I just spammed it into the redline and I killed someone in local chat. You should all really start using it and keep it up one more page til nerf:D If the MD was going to get nerfed, wouldn't have been included with the flaylock and contact grenades in that devblog about explosives? Also, did you see that chart? CCP doesn't base nerfs on 20 page QQ fests, they like to use stuff like numbers, equations, and charts. They balance purely by forum QQ... there hasn't been enough utilization of the mass driver yet to really get the forum QQ going... but I suspect it'll there eventually. I'm pretty sure QQ only alerts them to look into it. If everything was based on kneejerk reaction, the forge gun would have taken a hit- but what do we have here: #45 Posted: 2013.07.26 04:14 CCP Frame wrote: [FEEDBACK] Forge gun vs. Infantry - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=93259&find=unread Update: We feel that the FG is in a good place and there is no need to make changes to this weapon right now. However, we are constantly monitoring performance of each weapon and its variants on TQ and will react in case we see unusual performance spikes showing up that we are not comfortable with. That topic went 13 pages and there's at least 2 others that are equally longer, if not more. QQ may draw attention, but the squeaky wheel doesn't always get the grease.
Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 128	Posted - 2013.08.01 17:39:00 - [372] - Quote I love seeing these threads. The fact of the matter is that the Mass Driver is not unbalanced at all. I'd go as far to say that it is extremely balanced "As a whole". I challenge any of you who think this weapon is unbalanced to take a mass driver and get 6 direct hits on any proto heavy or any proto assault. Make sure you test this when they have 100% armor and 100% shields. Now tell me if you can kill them with 6 direct shots. The answer to this question is that you will most likely NOT kill that proto-heavy or proto-assault. I'll one up this made up statistic and say that in 90% of those cases you will NOT kill them with just 6 shots. If you're wondering why, then listen up. Mass Drivers do an exceptional amount of reduced damage to shields (No, I do not remember the exact numbers but I'm sure someone will provide them for you all). The fact of the matter is that they do reduced damage to shields. Once the shields are down, then they do full damage to armor, thus a direct shot on most players with even an enhanced armor plate is considered lethal (Though as a lot of you regular mass driver users will notice is it takes more than 2-3 shots to even take out the armor on any suit other than a scout suit; flimsy creatures). So now your argument is that "All mass driver users have to expel their entire clip of 6 (high damage) rounds, or 8 (low damage rounds) to kill me" ... That is a fair argument, but let's consider other weapons that require far less of their total clip to kill someone (let alone the refire rate, the reload speed etc). The AR, the SAR, the HMG. These weapons can kill multiple people with a single clip, and with a hundred times more precision. What I think has you all completely torn is the fact that a good mass driver will use other means to hurt you before they even begin to shoot at you. Pay attention so I don't have to continually make these posts. Being grouped up is a mass driver's wet dream. The more people in a cluster, the more effective the mass driver is. It is a crowd control weapon. Second, the use of FLUX grenades to remove the initial penalty from shields also plays a huge role in killing you quickly (Set aside your hate for flux grenades, they no longer can kill you like a locusts grenade which can kill you at full shields and armor). Third, splash damage is a far cry from real damage so don't stand just at the corner of a wall, actually go into cover because a grenade could kill you more effectively than the splash of a mass driver. Last, most mass drivers will wait until someone has already removed your shields before they start using their "very limited" clip on you so chances are someone else already did the hard work of taking out your shields and the mass driver took the kill for finishing you off. My conclusion stands on its own with these facts. The mass driver is not over powered, nor is it unbalanced. There are good players that use the weapon wisely, which provides a great dynamic to the game in the previously mentioned "crowd control" comment. Going 1v1 with someone who is good at the game will more than likely kill the mass driver because of the extremely low refire rate and reload speed, which gives credence to my claim that it is a crowd control weapon.
Cosgar ParagonX 3730	Posted - 2013.08.01 17:53:00 - [373] - Quote Why do I have a feeling that this topic is going to waste a spot on this week's update?
Jakar Umbra Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 160	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:01:00 - [374] - Quote Wow... this thread is still going? I mean come on, the weapon is fine. Does it need 6 shots? Yes. Does it need the splash damage and splash radius? Yes. You guys are QQing about explosions exploding. Have you tried aiming a mass driver up at someone? It's laughable. Even sometimes you aim it down at a guy and the guy's, guess what, Assault Rifle kills you because of DPS. When a Mass Driver gets to go 50+ kills with like 3 deaths then maybe I might ask for a nerf, or better I would say now it rivals the AR. The problem is that most of these guys like thinking inside the very tiny box that is running in a straight line in a crowd of people and expecting that explosions won't cause you to scatter like a drop of water on an ant hill. While we're at it, why don't we make Locus Grenades explode into a cloud of confetti with a noise clip of children shouting "Yaaay!!"
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 783	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:02:00 - [375] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Cosgar wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: [quote=Cosgar] PC is the most competitive stage of Dust right now. In PC matches you begin to truly see what is balanced and what is unbalanced. Pubs are joke and if your only experience in dust is pubs then your opinions on balance are not needed Still doesn't give you a "get out of jail free" card to misdirect a topic because someone has an opinion that differs from yours. Try using a weapon before you suggest nerfing it, or maybe use some numbers to support your claim. Maybe I'll take you more serious than rolling my eyes when you try to impose supremacy over others because you play a different game mode. Correction I play the most competitive game mode Really? Played them all, and can say that other than each team basically having the same tactic and counters over and over ( leaves room for so much predictability ) it is just like FW. Except you get rewarded more, oh my that just made it so much more competitive.. except unlike FW , you don't have to que sync. If anything at all is competitive , it would be the public skirmishes , you don't know WHO you go against, you don't know WHAT you go against.. there are no pacts, there are no fill ins.. you accept what you have in front of you and make the best of it. All these people who think they are elite because they only play PC make me laugh so hard each time I see these supremacy posts. Sure it does let you see what's OP , i'll give you that.. but that's it.. because people want to guarantee a win each side will more than likely spam the same thing that can effectively get the job done. That does not make it more competitive in the slightest, it just shows how desperate some get to hold onto their precious clone sales. and now i'm back to work, cya
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 707	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:10:00 - [376] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Nerfed against shields with a slow reload time, If you can't out DPS an Assault MD, you need to get better. Just a suggestion....dont tell people who are better than you are that they need to get better.,.....you just end up sounding like an idiot. Fortunately for the MDs there is an amazing weapon that cant be thrown to instantly wipe all shields from all units.....its not affected by objects that are between the nade and the target.....they also still have the old 2 second timer that the locus nades used to have..... This plus the MDs 8+ meter radius to do 100+ dmg to armor is just rediculous.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 904	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:16:00 - [377] - Quote I am starting to campaign for a proposal for a comprehensive EWAR system that magnifies drawbacks for each weapon damage class see below for further information and please leave your thoughts. {[][] Friction and Ion Grenades: An Anti-Weapon EWAR System [][]}
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 784	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:18:00 - [378] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Nerfed against shields with a slow reload time, If you can't out DPS an Assault MD, you need to get better. Just a suggestion....dont tell people who are better than you are that they need to get better.,.....you just end up sounding like an idiot. Fortunately for the MDs there is an amazing weapon that cant be thrown to instantly wipe all shields from all units.....its not affected by objects that are between the nade and the target.....they also still have the old 2 second timer that the locus nades used to have..... This plus the MDs 8+ meter radius to do 100+ dmg to armor is just rediculous. Can't go in game to look.. but do MD really have 8+m splash? I thought it was only like 4m with the proto +25% with lvl 5? I don't really look to deep into stats, so I'm clueless as to what bonuses and all that jazz really do for each gun.. I just pick it up, use it.. if I like it it and get atleast 1 kill i'll use it again lol.
Cyrius Li-Moody The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 552	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:20:00 - [379] - Quote @knightshade MD's don't have an 8m+ radius. that's an exaggeration.
Medical Crash Vacuum Cleaner. LLC RUST415 37	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:20:00 - [380] - Quote All aboard the Nerf Train- CHOO CHOO- nerf the MD! Yeah, that's the answer to all our problems, let's nerf it! Yeah!

semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 708	Posted - 2013.08.01 18:39:00 - [381] - Quote Knightshade Belladonna wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Nerfed against shields with a slow reload time, If you can't out DPS an Assault MD, you need to get better. Just a suggestion....dont tell people who are better than you are that they need to get better.,.....you just end up sounding like an idiot. Fortunately for the MDs there is an amazing weapon that cant be thrown to instantly wipe all shields from all units.....its not affected by objects that are between the nade and the target.....they also still have the old 2 second timer that the locus nades used to have..... This plus the MDs 8+ meter radius to do 100+ dmg to armor is just rediculous. Can't go in game to look.. but do MD really have 8+m splash? I thought it was only like 4m with the proto +25% with lvl 5? I don't really look to deep into stats, so I'm clueless as to what bonuses and all that jazz really do for each gun.. I just pick it up, use it.. if I like it it and get atleast 1 kill i'll use it again lol. The assault MD with the +25% bonus gets a 8+ meter radius (if I remember my calculations correctly). Actually since I was asked I checked and redid my calculations...I was right its over 8 but better yet it gets a 9 meter radius http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Mass_Driver
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 293	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:17:00 - [382] - Quote But does under a 100 dmg and thats 30% to shields so 58 dmg per shot unless they are using mods which still wont get it up to a 100. If you get through shields then 108 dmg to armor per shot. AR - 34 dmg per bullet - 10 bullets out of a 48 clip - 374 dmg to shields If I'm doing it wrong let me know (no troll).
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 709	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:27:00 - [383] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: But does under a 100 dmg and thats 30% to shields so 58 dmg per shot unless they are using mods which still wont get it up to a 100. If you get through shields then 108 dmg to armor per shot. AR - 34 dmg per bullet - 10 bullets out of a 48 clip - 374 dmg to shields If I'm doing it wrong let me know (no troll). You forgot that there is a %15 dmg increase as well plus anyone who is good at building an MD suit would put at least 1 complex dmg mod on the MD this puts the dmgs up to 125.69 vs armor (114.26 if no dmg mod). This is enough dmg to armor to almost 1 shot most suits....2 shots does 229 dmg to armor (very few suits other than heavies have armor that is this high. And you can get that type of dmg in a 9 meter radius with no fall off damage. Honestly if there was fall off dmg there probably would not be a big issue with the MD. But since there isnt and you can get 114+ dmg in a 9 meter radius....yes this needs to be reduced.
Cosgar ParagonX 3739	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:30:00 - [384] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: But does under a 100 dmg and thats 30% to shields so 58 dmg per shot unless they are using mods which still wont get it up to a 100. If you get through shields then 108 dmg to armor per shot. AR - 34 dmg per bullet - 10 bullets out of a 48 clip - 374 dmg to shields If I'm doing it wrong let me know (no troll). You forgot that there is a %15 dmg increase as well plus anyone who is good at building an MD suit would put at least 1 complex dmg mod on the MD this puts the dmgs up to 125.69 vs armor (114.26 if no dmg mod). This is enough dmg to armor to almost 1 shot most suits....2 shots does 229 dmg to armor (very few suits other than heavies have armor that is this high. And you can get that type of dmg in a 9 meter radius with no fall off damage. Honestly if there was fall off dmg there probably would not be a big issue with the MD. But since there isnt and you can get 114+ dmg in a 9 meter radius....yes this needs to be reduced. Or armor needs to be buffed. Seriously, for all the drawbacks armor has, (and none for shields) plates and armor tanking suits should have a much larger buffer or even a module that increases total armor by a percentage. At the same time explosives and kinetic weapons are supposed to be a hard counter to armor just like the ScR eats a shield tanker's lunch.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 293	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:33:00 - [385] - Quote I will give you the tactic of using a flux exposes them to straight armor damage but you cant be serious with your eg. Pro Lv 5 and 10% dmg mod while using past proto level weapon!!! If that is your basis then once you nerf anything below is useless from the start. And please note I gave you a basic AR missing more than half its shots in the clip
The dark cloud Intara Direct Action Caldari State 1811	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:36:00 - [386] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: But does under a 100 dmg and thats 30% to shields so 58 dmg per shot unless they are using mods which still wont get it up to a 100. If you get through shields then 108 dmg to armor per shot. AR - 34 dmg per bullet - 10 bullets out of a 48 clip - 374 dmg to shields If I'm doing it wrong let me know (no troll). You forgot that there is a %15 dmg increase as well plus anyone who is good at building an MD suit would put at least 1 complex dmg mod on the MD this puts the dmgs up to 125.69 vs armor (114.26 if no dmg mod). This is enough dmg to armor to almost 1 shot most suits....2 shots does 229 dmg to armor (very few suits other than heavies have armor that is this high. And you can get that type of dmg in a 9 meter radius with no fall off damage. Honestly if there was fall off dmg there probably would not be a big issue with the MD. But since there isnt and you can get 114+ dmg in a 9 meter radius....yes this needs to be reduced. the 15% damage increase is from the proficency. And as far as i remember every weapon in the game has that. Though proficency 5 is quiet SP intensive. And do you actually see the assault variant on the battlefield? No cause the standard has more splash damage compared to the assault which makes it more popular. And the "very few suits have armor" is not a valid point. Sure you have low armor when you decide to shield tank your suit. So what? You complainin that you get one shoted after beeing hit with a flux? I could complain more to get 1 hit killed by a core locus cause i wear gallente suits and they do over 900HP damage (bonus against armor thats why its so high). Thats more of a problem then getting fluxed+MD'ed which takes longer as just throw a grenade that has 7.2 meters splash damage.
Skihids Bullet Cluster 1803	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:50:00 - [387] - Quote You can't assume flux nades when you evaluate the MD without assuming flux nades for the comparison weapon too. They are separate weapon systems and it isn't fair to compare two to one. And the flux nade has a far shorter range than the MD so that combo only works for CQC.
Rugudorull Apophicyria Supercalifragilisticexpialidocius 22	Posted - 2013.08.01 20:41:00 - [388] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Knightshade Belladonna wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Nerfed against shields with a slow reload time, If you can't out DPS an Assault MD, you need to get better. Just a suggestion....dont tell people who are better than you are that they need to get better.,.....you just end up sounding like an idiot. Fortunately for the MDs there is an amazing weapon that cant be thrown to instantly wipe all shields from all units.....its not affected by objects that are between the nade and the target.....they also still have the old 2 second timer that the locus nades used to have..... This plus the MDs 8+ meter radius to do 100+ dmg to armor is just rediculous. Can't go in game to look.. but do MD really have 8+m splash? I thought it was only like 4m with the proto +25% with lvl 5? I don't really look to deep into stats, so I'm clueless as to what bonuses and all that jazz really do for each gun.. I just pick it up, use it.. if I like it it and get atleast 1 kill i'll use it again lol. The assault MD with the +25% bonus gets a 8+ meter radius (if I remember my calculations correctly). Actually since I was asked I checked and redid my calculations...I was right its over 8 but better yet it gets a 9 meter radius http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Mass_Driver I could be wrong but those appear to be Chromosome MD stats. I use proto assault md and I don't think I get the 9m splash radius like I did from Chromosome. I know the md got a nerf from Chromosome to Uprising 1.0 and then a slight rebuff in 1.2. When I get home from work, I will fire up the ps3 and recheck md stats.
Cosgar ParagonX 3749	Posted - 2013.08.01 20:42:00 - [389] - Quote Rugudorull Apophicyria wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Knightshade Belladonna wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Nerfed against shields with a slow reload time, If you can't out DPS an Assault MD, you need to get better. Just a suggestion....dont tell people who are better than you are that they need to get better.,.....you just end up sounding like an idiot. Fortunately for the MDs there is an amazing weapon that cant be thrown to instantly wipe all shields from all units.....its not affected by objects that are between the nade and the target.....they also still have the old 2 second timer that the locus nades used to have..... This plus the MDs 8+ meter radius to do 100+ dmg to armor is just rediculous. Can't go in game to look.. but do MD really have 8+m splash? I thought it was only like 4m with the proto +25% with lvl 5? I don't really look to deep into stats, so I'm clueless as to what bonuses and all that jazz really do for each gun.. I just pick it up, use it.. if I like it it and get atleast 1 kill i'll use it again lol. The assault MD with the +25% bonus gets a 8+ meter radius (if I remember my calculations correctly). Actually since I was asked I checked and redid my calculations...I was right its over 8 but better yet it gets a 9 meter radius http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Mass_Driver I could be wrong but those appear to be Chromosome MD stats. I use proto assault md and I don't think I get the 9m splash radius like I did from Chromosome. I know the md got a nerf from Chromosome to Uprising 1.0 and then a slight rebuff in 1.2. When I get home from work, I will fire up the ps3 and recheck md stats. Those are the Chromosome values.
Cyrius Li-Moody The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 557	Posted - 2013.08.01 20:47:00 - [390] - Quote Boundless Assault MD is 6.6m. 8.25m with skills in case anyone cares. 159.7 for direct hit and 76.6 on the splash.



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