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Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
839
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 11:18:00 -
[211] - Quote
xSir Campsalotx wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:xSir Campsalotx wrote:If it killed in 1 hit I would agree with you but usually it takes more than a whole clip before I die so either you strictly run a mlt gal light frame how do you die in 1 hit? Grenade Launcher should be an attachable mod for the AR, with a powerful single shoot, high reload time, and only 3 grenades....but... ohh... wait.. CRAP !! i have to run.. the CoD haters just hear me.... They have that in CoD if you want this, play a game that has the specific play style no point in make two games the same, or try getting direct hits with forge guns if your looking for a 1 hit kill. You have the choice but no things are not going to be like CoD because you want them too, this game is called Dust 514 and its best asset is its uniqueness. Honestly what other game can you carry a hand held man portable anitmaterial rail gun.
The also have them in Battlefield ...and.. well almost every FPS i can think of...except CS... I guess. |
falzar102
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 11:19:00 -
[212] - Quote
MD needs a clip size of one. That'll sort the issue. |
The dark cloud
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
1799
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 11:51:00 -
[213] - Quote
falzar102 wrote:MD needs a clip size of one. That'll sort the issue. sure and add a splash damage off 1000 then you can have that. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3500
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 11:57:00 -
[214] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:falzar102 wrote:MD needs a clip size of one. That'll sort the issue. sure and add a splash damage off 1000 then you can have that. This game kind of does need a real noob tube attachment. As much as people hate it in CoD, it's a necessary evil since there's no matchmaking to speak of. It shouldn't be a OHK in Dust, but something newberries can take advantage of until they can get some SP and we get a working matchmaking system. |
Morathi III
Pro Hic Immortalis League of Infamy
172
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 12:07:00 -
[215] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:Crutch much? Always a big laugh how much regular trooper outskill you in heads up |
Princeps Marcellus
Expert Intervention Caldari State
139
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 12:15:00 -
[216] - Quote
At mid to long ranges, it is easier to kill or injure someone with an assault rifle. If someone is able to run up to you with a mass driver and kill you with three to six shots, then the gun is working as intended.
If you see a heavy with a MD of comparably tiered gear to the mainly assault rifle armed other team, and the the heavy is, working on his own, able to decimate the enemy team without relying on support from his teammates, then the mass driver is WAI. Working as intended. |
Jakar Umbra
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
141
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 12:36:00 -
[217] - Quote
Wow this thread is long. No way I'm reading all of it but as a MD User I'm going to guess it goes something like this: QQ about MD working as intended; Person responds about why the AR still out DPS's it and why the AR is a far more effective killer. More QQ about MD working as intended. QQ about AR. Present why the MD requires tactical thinking to use [QQ about valid tactics with the Mass Driver. QQ about not wanting to have to actually think tactically to counter stuffs. QQ about explosions exploding QQ about losing to MD when MD has high ground. QQ about losing to MD when running in straight line to MD User QQ about losing to MD when hiding in corner QQ about losing to MD when backing wall]
I think that about covers it.
So here's the thing. I use the MD. In close quarters against someone who gets the drop on me almost everything goes south. Scouts require two splash shots to kill; one direct hit. Caldari suits need to get fluxed. The weapon is a hard counter to Gallente suits. Minmatar suits are fast as ****, Ammar Mediums are surprisingly versatile, Ammar heavies need to get fluxed.
And everyone with an AR can out DPS me in a one on one fight. I've had to Melee people at close range to win some fights.
The point is does the Mass Driver require six shots? With the amount of time spent reloading and rearming at nanohives I almost wish it had more shots in a clip but then it would actually be OP. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax.
3648
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 12:56:00 -
[218] - Quote
Booby Tuesdays wrote:If a MD user has time to fire all 6 rounds at you, which takes over 6 seconds, what were you doing with your main weapon AND sidearm in the meantime??? MD: 1. Obscures your vision 2. Makes you flinch 3. Drops frame rate
Can't do **** like that. |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
599
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 12:58:00 -
[219] - Quote
flaylock 2.0 nerf time =D |
Jakar Umbra
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
144
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 12:59:00 -
[220] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:If a MD user has time to fire all 6 rounds at you, which takes over 6 seconds, what were you doing with your main weapon AND sidearm in the meantime??? MD: 1. Obscures your vision 2. Makes you flinch 3. Drops frame rate Can't do **** like that.
Minus the Drops frame rate part, let's consider the others inflict blind, and inflict stun respectively and suddenly in RPG terms everything's nice and good for the support weapon. |
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Cosgar
ParagonX
3514
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 13:01:00 -
[221] - Quote
Jakar Umbra wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:If a MD user has time to fire all 6 rounds at you, which takes over 6 seconds, what were you doing with your main weapon AND sidearm in the meantime??? MD: 1. Obscures your vision 2. Makes you flinch 3. Drops frame rate Can't do **** like that. Minus the Drops frame rate part, let's consider the others inflict blind, and inflict stun respectively and suddenly in RPG terms everything's nice and good for the support weapon. It used to add camera shake back in beta, but even us massholes said that was OP. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax.
3648
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 13:02:00 -
[222] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Jakar Umbra wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:If a MD user has time to fire all 6 rounds at you, which takes over 6 seconds, what were you doing with your main weapon AND sidearm in the meantime??? MD: 1. Obscures your vision 2. Makes you flinch 3. Drops frame rate Can't do **** like that. Minus the Drops frame rate part, let's consider the others inflict blind, and inflict stun respectively and suddenly in RPG terms everything's nice and good for the support weapon. It used to add camera shake back in beta, but even us massholes said that was OP. It doesn't shake the camera, but it makes it flinch. Enough to keep you off of someone. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax.
3648
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 13:04:00 -
[223] - Quote
Jakar Umbra wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:If a MD user has time to fire all 6 rounds at you, which takes over 6 seconds, what were you doing with your main weapon AND sidearm in the meantime??? MD: 1. Obscures your vision 2. Makes you flinch 3. Drops frame rate Can't do **** like that. Minus the Drops frame rate part, let's consider the others inflict blind, and inflict stun respectively and suddenly in RPG terms everything's nice and good for the support weapon. Until you consider that it can still kill people like there is no tomorrow. If they want to keep those things in, then drop the splash damage to 50-60. Otherwise, remove the damn flinch and effects. |
Jakar Umbra
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
144
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 13:05:00 -
[224] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Jakar Umbra wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:If a MD user has time to fire all 6 rounds at you, which takes over 6 seconds, what were you doing with your main weapon AND sidearm in the meantime??? MD: 1. Obscures your vision 2. Makes you flinch 3. Drops frame rate Can't do **** like that. Minus the Drops frame rate part, let's consider the others inflict blind, and inflict stun respectively and suddenly in RPG terms everything's nice and good for the support weapon. Until you consider that it can still kill people like there is no tomorrow. If they want to keep those things in, then drop the splash damage to 50-60. Otherwise, remove the damn flinch and effects.
The flinch relates to aiming, your feet aint broken. Get outta dodge. The thing is area denial. Of course you're going to die if you're still in the area. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax.
3649
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 13:10:00 -
[225] - Quote
Jakar Umbra wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Jakar Umbra wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:If a MD user has time to fire all 6 rounds at you, which takes over 6 seconds, what were you doing with your main weapon AND sidearm in the meantime??? MD: 1. Obscures your vision 2. Makes you flinch 3. Drops frame rate Can't do **** like that. Minus the Drops frame rate part, let's consider the others inflict blind, and inflict stun respectively and suddenly in RPG terms everything's nice and good for the support weapon. Until you consider that it can still kill people like there is no tomorrow. If they want to keep those things in, then drop the splash damage to 50-60. Otherwise, remove the damn flinch and effects. The flinch relates to aiming, your feet aint broken. Get outta dodge. The thing is area denial. Of course you're going to die if you're still in the area. Only I can't, because it kills too quickly for it to be area denial. Oh and did I mention that it's extremely effective at being a shotgun? Put some kin cats on, can't escape from you and can't hit you. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3514
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 13:11:00 -
[226] - Quote
If it adds flinch, can you catch it on camera and report it. That's not a feature the MD should have. |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
599
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 13:13:00 -
[227] - Quote
I die to a mass driver once in maybe 20 games despite everyone switching to them, and using them like ars now.
seriously some people just suck, and we need to balance the game around them sucking. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3514
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 13:16:00 -
[228] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:I die to a mass driver once in maybe 20 games despite everyone switching to them, and using them like ars now.
seriously some people just suck, and we need to balance the game around them sucking. That's why we have the easy mode standard AR and why it's the first weapon anyone starting out will see. But the problem is the other variants and other weapons aren't as effective enough to ween players off of this FOO tactic. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax.
3649
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 13:17:00 -
[229] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:If it adds flinch, can you catch it on camera and report it. That's not a feature the MD should have. All explosives do it.
Even then, it obscures your vision and drops your frame rate, two things that make this weapon too deadly. |
howard sanchez
DUST University Ivy League
626
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 13:19:00 -
[230] - Quote
I am going to trust that CCP did not make changes to the flay lock pistol simply because everyone whined on the forums about how overpowered it was. I choose to believe that they listened to the community but also looked closely at hard data about kills and trends with damage distribution
And I will additionally hope and believe that CCP would use this method every time the whiney nerf begging vanilla loving horde comes a calling, Regnum.
And I expect that, when the actual data is reviewed, CCP will not see the kind of effectiveness at producing kills with mass drivers that they saw with flay locks. If that is not the case, if every time Regnum sees a mass driver in dust he dies...or whatever sky it is you are currently screaming about falling....then a nerf may be in order.
But I would like to see some data in addition to your whining dissatisfaction. |
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Jakar Umbra
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
145
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 13:23:00 -
[231] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote: Only I can't, because it kills too quickly for it to be area denial. Oh and did I mention that it's extremely effective at being a shotgun? Put some kin cats on, can't escape from you and can't hit you.
Trust me when I say I know it it's effective at being a shotgun, right up until the splash damage kills me too. You armour tank which is where I can see the speed being a problem. Try going up against a tanked Calamari suit without flux grenades in a 1v1 fight and unless the Calamari has absolutely horrid aiming the MD is going to lose.
Now I know we're going to continue to disagree on this. It's pretty much unavoidable, but as a person who uses the mass driver in its element and getting often caught outside its element I must say that it is a decently balanced weapon. I've been caught with my shields down in close quarters which has often resulted in my death. I've had to flux myself in an attempt to try killing other people. I've taken out crowds of people on their way to another location, thus denying them entrance to an area. I've been killed by most every weapon while I've even had the high ground including by armour tanked Gallente suits. The weapon has an insanely long reload time that sometimes you cannot take the time to do as running away will assure survival more than attempting to continue fighting. The regular mass driver has a total of 18 shots, that's three full clips and if there's no downtime to drop a nanohive or if I run out of nanohives it's like being caught with your pants down in the school yard. EVERYONE shoots at you almost as if they knew.
Until I see a game where a Mass Driver gets like 50-0 without orbitals like I've seen some AR Users do, I will continue to state the weapon is balanced. The weapon is situational. If people like running in squads the weapon shines. Somebody has to die. Try aiming a Mass Driver up a hill. Trust me when I say it's not easy. CQC has often resulted in my having to stop shooting and relying on my Minnie Logi suit's speed to attempt to get a melee. |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
599
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 13:28:00 -
[232] - Quote
howard sanchez wrote:I am going to trust that CCP did not make changes to the flay lock pistol simply because everyone whined on the forums about how overpowered it was. I choose to believe that they listened to the community but also looked closely at hard data about kills and trends with damage distribution
And I will additionally hope and believe that CCP would use this method every time the whiney nerf begging vanilla loving horde comes a calling, Regnum.
And I expect that, when the actual data is reviewed, CCP will not see the kind of effectiveness at producing kills with mass drivers that they saw with flay locks. If that is not the case, if every time Regnum sees a mass driver in dust he dies...or whatever sky it is you are currently screaming about falling....then a nerf may be in order.
But I would like to see some data in addition to your whining dissatisfaction.
what kill data, the top two weapons that get kills in this game are AR and sniper rifles, and AR's get easily double the kills of sniper rifles, all other weapons don't even come close.
if you add up the kill feeds they will usually look like the following
AR- 85 kills snipers 50 kills tanks/vehicles - 50 kills scrambler rifles - 45 kills mass driver - 30 kills everything else - 30 kills |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3515
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 13:28:00 -
[233] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:If it adds flinch, can you catch it on camera and report it. That's not a feature the MD should have. All explosives do it. Even then, it obscures your vision and drops your frame rate, two things that make this weapon too deadly. Try turning your settings down. As a guy who gets surrounded by explosions, (****ing grenade spam) I haven't noticed. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3524
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 13:49:00 -
[234] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:howard sanchez wrote:I am going to trust that CCP did not make changes to the flay lock pistol simply because everyone whined on the forums about how overpowered it was. I choose to believe that they listened to the community but also looked closely at hard data about kills and trends with damage distribution
And I will additionally hope and believe that CCP would use this method every time the whiney nerf begging vanilla loving horde comes a calling, Regnum.
And I expect that, when the actual data is reviewed, CCP will not see the kind of effectiveness at producing kills with mass drivers that they saw with flay locks. If that is not the case, if every time Regnum sees a mass driver in dust he dies...or whatever sky it is you are currently screaming about falling....then a nerf may be in order.
But I would like to see some data in addition to your whining dissatisfaction. what kill data, the top two weapons that get kills in this game are AR and sniper rifles, and AR's get easily double the kills of sniper rifles, all other weapons don't even come close. if you add up the kill feeds they will usually look like the following AR- 85 kills snipers 50 kills tanks/vehicles - 50 kills scrambler rifles - 45 kills mass driver - 30 kills everything else - 30-50 kills depending on how many heavies you have using forge guns This is seems about right. Everyone notices mass drivers because they're high profile deaths. ARs are like car accidents, shootings, robberies, but the MD is a shark death. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
763
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 14:04:00 -
[235] - Quote
All that said.
I've been using the MD for about 9 months.
During Chromosome the weapon worked great. They decided to nerf it dramatically when Uprising was released.
This nerf made it more apparent that there was a serious hit detection issue.
As a temporary fix, they buffed the splash radius to previous levels.
I warned against this, saying that hit detection needed to be fixed before there was any buff.
At this time, the splash radius is too big. There are times I fire a shot out of desperation that missed pretty badly yet garners a kill.
This splash radius is big enough that there are a ton of rogue suicides as well. I don't get up high to use the MD because it's boring. I like to run around with it. I die as much from my own hand as from the enemy the last few weeks. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3533
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 14:11:00 -
[236] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:All that said.
I've been using the MD for about 9 months.
During Chromosome the weapon worked great. They decided to nerf it dramatically when Uprising was released.
This nerf made it more apparent that there was a serious hit detection issue.
As a temporary fix, they buffed the splash radius to previous levels.
I warned against this, saying that hit detection needed to be fixed before there was any buff.
At this time, the splash radius is too big. There are times I fire a shot out of desperation that missed pretty badly yet garners a kill.
This splash radius is big enough that there are a ton of rogue suicides as well. I don't get up high to use the MD because it's boring. I like to run around with it. I die as much from my own hand as from the enemy the last few weeks. You can always use the breach. It has a smaller radius with a somewhat decent splash damage. I use it on a scout suit like a ghetto shotgun when I'm bored. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
2535
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 15:07:00 -
[237] - Quote
Azura Sakura wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Azura Sakura wrote:LIFE RIPPER wrote: Mad because its not an AR?
Let's be cereal for a minute. A mass driver require no skills to use up close. You'll kill yourself up close if you're not careful- gets worse the better MD you have. If that happens. Either you're bad or someone ran in front of you. Then it does indeed take skill to use up close. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1356
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 15:12:00 -
[238] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:howard sanchez wrote:I am going to trust that CCP did not make changes to the flay lock pistol simply because everyone whined on the forums about how overpowered it was. I choose to believe that they listened to the community but also looked closely at hard data about kills and trends with damage distribution
And I will additionally hope and believe that CCP would use this method every time the whiney nerf begging vanilla loving horde comes a calling, Regnum.
And I expect that, when the actual data is reviewed, CCP will not see the kind of effectiveness at producing kills with mass drivers that they saw with flay locks. If that is not the case, if every time Regnum sees a mass driver in dust he dies...or whatever sky it is you are currently screaming about falling....then a nerf may be in order.
But I would like to see some data in addition to your whining dissatisfaction. what kill data, the top two weapons that get kills in this game are AR and sniper rifles, and AR's get easily double the kills of sniper rifles, all other weapons don't even come close. if you add up the kill feeds they will usually look like the following AR- 85 kills snipers 50 kills tanks/vehicles - 50 kills scrambler rifles - 45 kills mass driver - 30 kills everything else - 30-50 kills depending on how many heavies you have using forge guns
QFT. In pubs, the AR kills almost as often as 11 of the 14 weapons combined.
Hail AR 514.
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Knightshade Belladonna
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
771
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 15:23:00 -
[239] - Quote
Militia locus nade ate my 175k isk suit, end of argument.
move, or die |
Lt Royal
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
271
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 15:27:00 -
[240] - Quote
The real question you should be asking;
Do we really need to spin the chamber when reloading? Unless theres a Russian Roulette 2x damage shell in there somewhere.......
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