DUST Search - Do Mass Drivers really need Six Shots?

MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote:

Zatara Rought wrote:

Just wondering, whats the furthest range you can fling a mass driver round from say on top of the buildings at delta and echo on the bridge maps? Cause they don't seem to be affected by falloff damage the way ar's are, to the guy who says regnum uses flaylock, lol! He uses smg's you nerd. To the guys talking stats...are you adding in the 130% to armor? The m/d and flux combo is ludicrous because the falloff shield damage is virtually nonexistant at proto levels so you don't have to be remotely accurate to kill with it, just close. So I think it needs a nerf, not sure. Does it suck to get hit by a guy from up top and not have any way of getting away from it because cover doesn't work unless you get underneath something or find cover large enough not to get hit by splash? Oh yeah did I mention his window of vulnerability while shooting that thing is extremely small because you have no charge time? It's pretty annoying.

Forge gunning from god knows where in a pub match when your in a squad of .5-5mill sp players aren't likely to figure out how to counterplay the forger, as the range and the fact it's av is just lolz. The fact it takes a heavy suit with at least 900 ehp to use the thing...is even more frustrating. I spent one game recently spending the whole match trying to counter play 2 forge gunners who managed to get up top on the Towers map. It's frustrating.

(1)MD's can be suppressed long enough to get up to them by a teammate with a TAC AR or Imperial SCR. MD's function as force multipliers on the field and inherently don't have a 1v1 solution to them. Thats kind of the point of tactical shooters not everything has a 1:1 solution nor should it.(2) For arena battles in small map small number situations fine there is a point to be made.
But in 16 v16 HTFU and come up with counters. I hear squashing a MD with a Dropship is quite effective too.

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Jack Louphane XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S 5	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:30:00 - [61] - Quote Now lets do a little math, lets say we a a Duvolle Assault Rifle and a Boundless Assault Mass Driver. now in a 10 sec burst from each i will start with the Boundless Assault Mass Driver then the Duvolle Assault Rifle. these are based on level 5 skills fyi Boundless Assault Mass Driver Direct Damage183.655 Splash Damage88.09 ROF 75 Per Min Clip 8 Reload speed 3.4 sec so we take 60/75 = .8 witch is our rounds per sec so in a 10 second burst a massdrive can shoot 12.5 rounds so we will call it 9 because it has a 3.4 second reload once it hits 8 rounds "8.8 =6.4 sec + 3.4 =9.8 so we will call it 9 rounds. now lets say you get hit by all 9 rounds that comes to Direct Damage 1652.895 or... Splash Damage 792.81 for a 10 sec burst not bad looks impressive.... Now using the same math Duvolle Assault Rifle Direct Damage 43.01 ROF 750 per min Clip 60 Reload speed 2.55 sec so we take 60/750 = .08 witch is our rounds per sec so in a 10 second burst a AR can shoot 125 rounds so we will call it 93.75 because it has a 2.55 second reload once it hits 60 rounds "8.8 =4.8 sec + 2.55 =7.35 leaving 2.65 witch = about 33.75 rounds so 60 + 33.75 = 93.75 and all the rounds fired for 10 sec. so we will call it 93.75 rounds. Direct Damage 4032.1875 for a 10 sec burst. now i ask you witch of these 2 guns need a nerf?
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 864	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:35:00 - [62] - Quote Why is the AR "The Gold Standard" for skill? Wait until there are 4 flavors of AR and basically 4 TAC-ARs each with different engagement ranges and damage profiles. 1) Flux+mass driver is not a OHK, that is 2 hits. 2) The AR is an up-close weapon (0-40m ish) that excels when multiple people nearby are using it because it can put consistent and reliable hurt on a target. Other weapons are either more 'bursty', more accurate, longer range, or a combination of those. 3) Because Math: Clip Damage Comparison (base stats): Damage in Clip (100% accuracy in optimal)- GEK - 35.7 HP60 rounds = 2142 EXO-5 Assault MD - [Direct] 254 HP6 rounds = 1524 ; EXO-5 Assault MD - [splash] 121 HP*6 rounds = 726 RoF Comparison (time to do full clip's damage of direct MD hits (1524 HP): GEK - @ 750 RPM, 12.5 R/Sec, @100% accuracy= 3.4 seconds (43 rounds) GEK - @ 750 RPM, 12.5 R/Sec, @70% accuracy=4.8 seconds (60 rounds) EXO-5 @ 60 RPM, 1 R/Sec, @100% accuracy= 6 seconds (6 rounds) EXO-5 @ 60 RPM, 1 R/Sec, @Splash 100%= 16 seconds (6 rounds + reload + 6 rounds) The MD bonus damage to armor is especially annoying, but the nerf to its shield damage is a completely fair trade of when you see what it would take to take down a good shield buffer with some good regen and avoidance ability. I reiterate...when you are fighting in FLUX range you are especially vulnerable to mass drivers. The shield tank's biggest problem with the mass driver isn't the mass driver it is the flux grenade.
Cyrius Li-Moody The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 502	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:36:00 - [63] - Quote ^^ I like what you've done there, but complainers care not about numbers.
Jack Louphane XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S 5	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:36:00 - [64] - Quote Do you know how hard it is to hit a moving target that's doing the 2 step shuffle with direct damage with a weapon that has an arced to the projectiles flight path? unlike an AR? lmao
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3223	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:38:00 - [65] - Quote semi auto noobtubes are as good an idea as contact nades
Jack Louphane XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S 6	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:43:00 - [66] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: semi auto noobtubes are as good an idea as contact nades BRILLIANT! it hits the ground it goes boom, wall boom, crate boom.... dare i say player boom? well no that's a bit op, how about just splash damage instead?
LIFE RIPPER Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 154	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:43:00 - [67] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: semi auto noobtubes are as good an idea as contact nades Must be what his boss Reg yum told them to say.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1328	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:44:00 - [68] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Crutch much? Hail king AR, hail AR 514.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 865	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:44:00 - [69] - Quote Jack Louphane wrote: Do you know how hard it is to hit a moving target that's doing the 2 step shuffle with direct damage with a weapon that has an arced to the projectiles flight path? unlike an AR? lmao Yep how do you like them apples! So your argument is basically "I am not allowed to dance the same dance as him" ...Well, there are some weapons your stupid little belly dancing jigs aren't supposed to work against. You don't stare down a mass driver while swinging your hips. You kill it in 2-3 seconds you have the advantage or GTFO. You count its shots and then charge when he's reloading. BTW nobody has said that MDs take about 10% more CPU and 100% more PG than ARs too, which means a little more eHP.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 865	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:48:00 - [70] - Quote Also... Friendly Fricking Fire!!

Cyrius Li-Moody The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 503	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:49:00 - [71] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Crutch much? Hail king AR, hail AR 514. PRAISE BE TO DUVOLLE
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3224	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:49:00 - [72] - Quote LIFE RIPPER wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: semi auto noobtubes are as good an idea as contact nades Must be what his boss Reg yum told them to say. no, i make fun of reg's pro AR rants too... just as he trolls me when I talk about HMG's... difference of opinions... ikr! what a concept!
Jariel Manton SVER True Blood 214	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:51:00 - [73] - Quote But for real... i'm with Regynum
Skihids Bullet Cluster 1775	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:51:00 - [74] - Quote You won't convince anyone with numbers because it isn't about relative strengths. This is about "fair fights". They demand a fair chance to beat you using their choice of weapon and situation. It's called a duel. You know, where the best man wins? Not that messy thing called a war where you can get OB'ed out of nowhere or get a shotgun blast to the back of your head. No, that's simply unfair! There's no way that you should be allowed to use such a crutch to best them, it's intolerable. Thus we will be treated to these little rants whenever a sufferer of "dueling disease" gets offed by an unconventional weapon.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 867	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:52:00 - [75] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: LIFE RIPPER wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: semi auto noobtubes are as good an idea as contact nades Must be what his boss Reg yum told them to say. no, i make fun of reg's pro AR rants too... just as he trolls me when I talk about HMG's... difference of opinions... ikr! what a concept! Hell no! A lot of it isn't opinion. There are a lot of instances where the AR is plainly the wrong weapon to bring to the fight.
McFurious TeamPlayers EoN. 205	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:53:00 - [76] - Quote Oh, sweet, we're doing that thread again where people who don't use MD's complain about MD's. ReGnYuM wrote: Logi Stician wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Crutch much? How many shots do you think it should have so that it wouldn't be a crutch? 4 or 5 Oh noes. It's got one or two more shots than you think it should. Does an AR really need 60 rounds? Should be 30-40 IMO.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1330	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:54:00 - [77] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: LIFE RIPPER wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: semi auto noobtubes are as good an idea as contact nades Must be what his boss Reg yum told them to say. no, i make fun of reg's pro AR rants too... just as he trolls me when I talk about HMG's... difference of opinions... ikr! what a concept! Hell no! A lot of it isn't opinion. There are a lot of instances where the AR is plainly the wrong weapon to bring to the fight. Lol
Heimdallr69 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 394	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:54:00 - [78] - Quote I want my scrambler driver....even it out a bit
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 867	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:57:00 - [79] - Quote I can't wait until the CREST API comes out and you can start to rub whiners' faces in the stink that they leave in their own wake. Regnyum is going on my short list of people to look at first.
Zatara Rought TeamPlayers EoN. 593	Posted - 2013.07.31 04:22:00 - [80] - Quote Just wondering, whats the furthest range you can fling a mass driver round from say on top of the buildings at delta and echo on the bridge maps? Cause they don't seem to be affected by falloff damage the way ar's are, to the guy who says regnum uses flaylock, lol! He uses smg's you nerd. To the guys talking stats...are you adding in the 130% to armor? The m/d and flux combo is ludicrous because the falloff shield damage is virtually nonexistant at proto levels so you don't have to be remotely accurate to kill with it, just close. So I think it needs a nerf, not sure. Does it suck to get hit by a guy from up top and not have any way of getting away from it because cover doesn't work unless you get underneath something or find cover large enough not to get hit by splash? Oh yeah did I mention his window of vulnerability while shooting that thing is extremely small because you have no charge time? It's pretty annoying. Forge gunning from god knows where in a pub match when your in a squad of .5-5mill sp players aren't likely to figure out how to counterplay the forger, as the range and the fact it's av is just lolz. The fact it takes a heavy suit with at least 900 ehp to use the thing...is even more frustrating. I spent one game recently spending the whole match trying to counter play 2 forge gunners who managed to get up top on the Towers map. It's frustrating.

Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 769	Posted - 2013.07.31 04:24:00 - [81] - Quote Will this cycle ever end.. I'm starting to feel bad that I am part of this small community
MlDDLE MANGEMENT lMPurity 248	Posted - 2013.07.31 04:30:00 - [82] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Just wondering, whats the furthest range you can fling a mass driver round from say on top of the buildings at delta and echo on the bridge maps? Cause they don't seem to be affected by falloff damage the way ar's are, to the guy who says regnum uses flaylock, lol! He uses smg's you nerd. To the guys talking stats...are you adding in the 130% to armor? The m/d and flux combo is ludicrous because the falloff shield damage is virtually nonexistant at proto levels so you don't have to be remotely accurate to kill with it, just close. So I think it needs a nerf, not sure. Does it suck to get hit by a guy from up top and not have any way of getting away from it because cover doesn't work unless you get underneath something or find cover large enough not to get hit by splash? Oh yeah did I mention his window of vulnerability while shooting that thing is extremely small because you have no charge time? It's pretty annoying. Forge gunning from god knows where in a pub match when your in a squad of .5-5mill sp players aren't likely to figure out how to counterplay the forger, as the range and the fact it's av is just lolz. The fact it takes a heavy suit with at least 900 ehp to use the thing...is even more frustrating. I spent one game recently spending the whole match trying to counter play 2 forge gunners who managed to get up top on the Towers map. It's frustrating. MD's can be suppressed long enough with a TAC AR or Imperial SCR. to get up to them by a teammate. MD's function as force multipliers on the field and inherently don't have a 1v1 solution to them. Thats kind of the point of tactical shooters not everything has a 1:1 solution nor should it. For arena battles in small map small number situations fine there is a point to be made. But in 16 v16 HTFU and come up with counters. I hear squashing a MD with a Dropship is quite effective too. With regards to their CQC efficacy i think a minimum timer or minimum distance travelled for explosion might make them less devastating because in CQC they do exceedingly well and are very easy to use. Fact is they are balanced IMO opinion in their suppression role and playstyle at range and heights. But in CQC the 6 shots and huge splash damage can really be overpowering even against shotguns and HMGs. For those that would say FF and such its really not difficult to stay out of the splash damage and utterly decimate. Also the shallower arc and faster travel time of the rounds themselves make them impossible to avoid in CQC. There is a reason the MD is the preferred weapon within city structures over Shotguns.
Zatara Rought TeamPlayers EoN. 593	Posted - 2013.07.31 04:43:00 - [83] - Quote MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Just wondering, whats the furthest range you can fling a mass driver round from say on top of the buildings at delta and echo on the bridge maps? Cause they don't seem to be affected by falloff damage the way ar's are, to the guy who says regnum uses flaylock, lol! He uses smg's you nerd. To the guys talking stats...are you adding in the 130% to armor? The m/d and flux combo is ludicrous because the falloff shield damage is virtually nonexistant at proto levels so you don't have to be remotely accurate to kill with it, just close. So I think it needs a nerf, not sure. Does it suck to get hit by a guy from up top and not have any way of getting away from it because cover doesn't work unless you get underneath something or find cover large enough not to get hit by splash? Oh yeah did I mention his window of vulnerability while shooting that thing is extremely small because you have no charge time? It's pretty annoying. Forge gunning from god knows where in a pub match when your in a squad of .5-5mill sp players aren't likely to figure out how to counterplay the forger, as the range and the fact it's av is just lolz. The fact it takes a heavy suit with at least 900 ehp to use the thing...is even more frustrating. I spent one game recently spending the whole match trying to counter play 2 forge gunners who managed to get up top on the Towers map. It's frustrating. (1)MD's can be suppressed long enough to get up to them by a teammate with a TAC AR or Imperial SCR. MD's function as force multipliers on the field and inherently don't have a 1v1 solution to them. Thats kind of the point of tactical shooters not everything has a 1:1 solution nor should it.(2) For arena battles in small map small number situations fine there is a point to be made. But in 16 v16 HTFU and come up with counters. I hear squashing a MD with a Dropship is quite effective too. 1.) Lol, I played a match tonight where they had a sniper, a tank, and 2 dedicated forgers on top of Echo on the Bridge map, add to it a mass driver raining down shots on alpha....same with the forge's...the counter play is???? Snipe? Forge against higher ground against people who have cover while we have none while we pushed? Glad we have a variety of ways to accomplish a point take. Oh yeah, and let's give the defending side a mountain in the redline where they can place tanks and snipers while the attacker get no such boon 2.) You mean like this 8v8 tourney they want us to participate in?
Heimdallr69 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 401	Posted - 2013.07.31 04:54:00 - [84] - Quote So I have a question..just because I stayed with the Imp tag makes you think I suck and can't get into any good corps? What would make you think that?
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 224	Posted - 2013.07.31 05:00:00 - [85] - Quote Awe, did Ragenum get killed by a Mass Driver? Poor baby.
Zatara Rought TeamPlayers EoN. 594	Posted - 2013.07.31 05:00:00 - [86] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: So I have a question..just because I stayed with the Imp tag makes you think I suck and can't get into any good corps? What would make you think that? Don't let him jiggle your jollies. You're better than that. Even though I didn't like that stupid llav kill you got on me at the beginning of a game recently (sent ya fanmail) at least you were good enough to use a non explosive based weapon and get 7/1 with some ****** blueberries. o7
Zatara Rought TeamPlayers EoN. 594	Posted - 2013.07.31 05:01:00 - [87] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Awe, did Ragenum get killed by a Mass Driver? Poor baby. There were 9, and he was running in militia gear. Also, they were glitched invisible and were camping the objective....not his fault he clicked domination with Ambush and OMS royally ****** up.
LIFE RIPPER Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 157	Posted - 2013.07.31 05:10:00 - [88] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: So I have a question..just because I stayed with the Imp tag makes you think I suck and can't get into any good corps? What would make you think that? Did you ever play in PC battles? Never saw you in any of their videos. You probably don't even lift. You were just a cheerleader
Heimdallr69 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 401	Posted - 2013.07.31 05:11:00 - [89] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: So I have a question..just because I stayed with the Imp tag makes you think I suck and can't get into any good corps? What would make you think that? Don't let him jiggle your jollies. You're better than that. Even though I didn't like that stupid llav kill you got on me at the beginning of a game recently (sent ya fanmail) at least you were good enough to use a non explosive based weapon and get 7/1 with some ****** blueberries. o7 Was that the game where we were dicking off at the beginning? Someone said teamplayers so I took off ran you over then went assault because I wanted to win but hey you guys are pretty damn good
Heimdallr69 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 401	Posted - 2013.07.31 05:17:00 - [90] - Quote LIFE RIPPER wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: So I have a question..just because I stayed with the Imp tag makes you think I suck and can't get into any good corps? What would make you think that? Did you ever play in PC battles? Never saw you in any of their videos. You probably don't even lift. You were just a cheerleader Lift yeah bro I'm sure I got a lot more muscle than you, didn't you know I quit before pc? Never gave it a shot didn't feel like waiting now I'm back but the rest of imps have left



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