Bonus to module efficiency... on a suit with no modules...

+2% to efficacy of shield and armor modules per level.

I like the idea, but with that survivability you will see ZERO of these in a PC battle. You will see a lot of guys that are 0-15 with them in pub matches though.

You'll have to give it heavy type survivability for it to work or you are going to have to make it really fast like a scout.

And no grenade.

You'd have to be crazy to spec into this.

I'm not trying to be a trolling negative guy either. This WILL flop.

On what grounds are you basing that??? I have a gallente logi suit that doesn't run much faster then him, and my EHP is 550. I regularly go 25-2 and sometimes even better! With the shield and armor skills maxed out this suit would have 312 shields and 312 armor adding up to 624 total EHP (assuming the skills round down). That is without any shield extenders or armor plates AND you get to have TWO weapons, not to mention a nanohive......

So lets max out the possible tank this suit coulllld have! With two complex shield extenders and one complex armor plate this suit would have..... 457 shields, and 438 armor adding up to 896.5 EHP........ That's a pretty good tank for a suit that supposedly doesn't have one..... And all he would have to do is make sure a logi is backing him up! otherwise he would have to put a complex armor repper on, which still nets him about 750 EHP.

Now..... after you factor all of that in, you have to consider the fact that the suit can hold TWO light weapons. Imagine the possibilities! One AR with one SR, or maybe an SR with a shotgun, or an AR/SR + a Swarm launcher. Your utility role would increase tenfold in a squad!

It will help make the most out of the few modules it does have.

Also 500 base hp is hardly weak.

Commandos Will be dead before they can even Swap weapons

The Grenade slot will be patched in down the road. Meaning that is the 1st buff that suit will need.

Hopefully the other Civs will have a Nade slot when they are released

* Increased weapon switching speed

Seems like CCP shares your opinion

helping nothing is still nothing. mainly the standard suit

i said seems lol, like i said depends on its agility... 500 isnt much when you cant increase it

On what grounds are you basing that??? I have a gallente logi suit that doesn't run much faster then him, and my EHP is 550. I regularly go 25-2 and sometimes even better! With the shield and armor skills maxed out this suit would have 312 shields and 312 armor adding up to 624 total EHP (assuming the skills round down). That is without any shield extenders or armor plates AND you get to have TWO weapons, not to mention a nanohive......

So lets max out the possible tank this suit coulllld have! With two complex shield extenders and one complex armor plate this suit would have..... 457 shields, and 438 armor adding up to 896.5 EHP........ That's a pretty good tank for a suit that supposedly doesn't have one..... And all he would have to do is make sure a logi is backing him up! otherwise he would have to put a complex armor repper on, which still nets him about 750 EHP.

Now..... after you factor all of that in, you have to consider the fact that the suit can hold TWO light weapons. Imagine the possibilities! One AR with one SR, or maybe an SR with a shotgun, or an AR/SR + a Swarm launcher. Your utility role would increase tenfold in a squad!

it can be increased to over 600 without a single module. Armor and shield skills. On top of that its being released along side new armor and shield modules. So I will wait and see what can be squeezed out of it before I make a super snap judgement. I know thats not how we do.thing here in the forums, but I like being different.

On the face of it I would say:

Increase base speed to 4.5 with sprint at 5.75
Increase shield and Armor to 300 a piece.

Not sure about the rest without real world testing. However, as it stands at the ADV & Proto levels most medium frames will have greater shield and/or Armor total ehp plus the flexibility to add rappers or damage mods on top of that.

Still I do like the suit and I think it does have potential.

It will help make the most out of the few modules it does have.




Also 500 base hp is hardly weak.

On what grounds are you basing that??? I have a gallente logi suit that doesn't run much faster then him, and my EHP is 550. I regularly go 25-2 and sometimes even better! With the shield and armor skills maxed out this suit would have 312 shields and 312 armor adding up to 624 total EHP (assuming the skills round down). That is without any shield extenders or armor plates AND you get to have TWO weapons, not to mention a nanohive......

So lets max out the possible tank this suit coulllld have! With two complex shield extenders and one complex armor plate this suit would have..... 457 shields, and 438 armor adding up to 896.5 EHP........ That's a pretty good tank for a suit that supposedly doesn't have one..... And all he would have to do is make sure a logi is backing him up! otherwise he would have to put a complex armor repper on, which still nets him about 750 EHP.

Now..... after you factor all of that in, you have to consider the fact that the suit can hold TWO light weapons. Imagine the possibilities! One AR with one SR, or maybe an SR with a shotgun, or an AR/SR + a Swarm launcher. Your utility role would increase tenfold in a squad!

I honestly didn't take into account skills getting the HP up to 624. It's not bad when you break it out.

I stand corrected BASH AWAY.

Good job on the breakdown.

Not only that, but if they run in groups, one of them could have a nanhove while the others have injectors and repair tools. We don't even know yet if the new armor modules will be lowslots, but if they aren't, completely armor fitting these guys with triage in the group will be really crazy.

There will be teams that are still working on the other dropsuits, don't worry. However, they aren't coming out in the immediate point releases that the dev blog is talking about.

Did any one else read that they would be releasing the other Racial Variants of the Commando in the upcoming patches? Does that mean the Rapid Fire updates?
So unless I'm completely misunderstanding this, all the Commandos will be added before the Sentinels.

It will help make the most out of the few modules it does have.




Also 500 base hp is hardly weak.

The heavy Commando dropsuit is less durable than the Sentinel but is faster and more agile, allowing you to better engage and disengage from firefights. ItGÇÖs also currently the only heavy frame to feature an equipment slot. But this flexibility comes at the price of losing a grenade slot and sporting very few module slots (none at the Standard tier, in fact).

Two ARs on one suit: we finally have a LMG!

So unless I'm completely misunderstanding this, all the Commandos will be added before the Sentinels.

lol the weapon switch acts like the barrel cooldown?

How about we get the rest of the drop suits online first before we add new types? Stop leaving things 1/2 done this isn't Eve Online.

Hardly, but if you want cooldown, how about two scrambler rifles, that's 150 rounds in one go Oh wait, by the time you've emptied the second one, the first one will probably have cooled down already. Never mind.

with no mods to work with it squishy (militia heavies start at 1000 ehp base [with skills] and arent exactly a force to be reckoned with) especially on heavy's hit box and speed. we cant jump and run around like a light or medium frame. So our tank doubly suffers.



1. .3 isnt that much of an increase for losing almost 400 ehp without the ability to equip mods (1012 ehp base on Sentinel STD vs 625 with commando STD and 1590 sentinel proto and 921 commando proto/ [witn complex ] 849 with ferroscale those curious)

2. When you add that loss of a heavy weapon slot in with the rest of those "prices" doesnt seem quite as fair.


STD commando breakdown vs Sentnel
(assuming tanked sentinel with skills)
additions:
.3 km/h speed
upgraded sidearm slot (not two light weapons because heavys slots can fit light weapons)
equipment slot


losses:
694 ehp (more if new plates equipped instead of complex to save speed "boost")
3 module slots
heavy weapons slot
race bonus because no modules
grenade slot
14 PG
68 CPU

no change:
heavy's large hitbox
turn speed (as far as the dev blog describes no increase here [agility could very well just describe running])

Proto Commando vs Sentinel breakdown
(assuming same as before)

additions:
.3 km/h speed
upgraded sidearm slot
equipment slot
3% reload speed per level (sentinel has reload too)
10% module efficiency (used in ehp math so lolz at this)

losses:
893 ehp
heavy weapons slot
grenade slot
2 module slots
10 PG
46 CPU

no change:
heavy's large hitbox
turn speed (as far as the dev blog describes no increase here [agility could very well just describe running])


Take a second and look, the cons do not outweigh the benefits. its not as if you can use both light weapons at once. Plus you have to switch weapons which takes time so mid firefight would be a kitten anyways (not that they have the tank to be in a firefight). This is not a good suit it either needs significantly more speed, more modules, or a heavy weapons slot instead of one of the lights (which you could still use 2 lights if you felt like anyways). This suit will flop and it saddens me because i wanted more heavy content and got it...

@ladwar thanks for the appreciation. also thanks for pointing out my typo

should read: "benefits do not outweigh the cons"

I wish they gave that bonus to the amarr assault...

Just to let you guys know, CCP Remnant is a developer in Shanghai and this blog was put out at roughly... oh... 1:30 AM there. So he'd be in bed.

He will be able to check and respond to your feedback when he gets into the office.

i think if you weigh it against assaults it will come out just fine(minus a nade slot for a light weapon over a sidearm) if the speed is good enough, its clearly not meant to replace the heavy sents. class for eHP but it will top logis and assaults. And without having a heavy weapon slot it really shouldn't be compared against heavies.

People don't seem to be getting the idea of weapons vs. module slots tradeoff. Seems like you guys want it to be just as good as the med frames but with two weapons. Me thinks you havent fully contemplated the possibilities

It should be better than medium frames in everything but speed/agility its a heavy suit. As it stands it will be outperformed by everything but a suit using sniper/swarm/plasma cannon

But it has to outpreformed but those suits or otherwise it wouldnt be balanced. You cant keep your tacos and eat them as well. Trading power for versatility is the intended design of the suit

I swear I never heard anyone ask for a new drop suit role ...

STD commando breakdown vs Sentnel
(assuming tanked sentinel with skills)
additions:
.3 km/h speed
upgraded sidearm slot (not two light weapons because heavys slots can fit light weapons)
equipment slot


losses:
694 ehp (more if new plates equipped instead of complex to save speed "boost")
3 module slots
heavy weapons slot
race bonus because no modules
grenade slot
14 PG
68 CPU

no change:
heavy's large hitbox
turn speed (as far as the dev blog describes no increase here [agility could very well just describe running])

It really won't though, its MAX hp is around where an assault/logi (commando proto = 835 MAX with ferroscale why lose your speed bonus...) is plus it slower and has a larger hitbox. The basic amarr heavy frame with stamina mods will be more effective at what the commando proto is trying to accomplish, especially with the introduction of ferroscale plates as well. Base Amarr heavy frame gets base 1012 hp. Basic amarr can equip. damage mods, catalyzers, flux grenades, scrambler pistol, AR of choice (mix and match however you want ie SCR/SMG/AV nades) = more tank and more gank than a commando plus increased speed AND Stamina (if you equip catalyzers).

300 base armor and shields would equal 375 each with max armor and shield skill. That would be 750. it is silly to suggest that.

Um... the only way your STD Sentinel has an extra 694 ehp is if you already used up your 3 module slots and the extra pg/cpu. You can't count it multiple times.

And if you think the bonus on the STD Commando is useless, just wait till you see the one on the Sentinel...

Commando: sidearm->light, equipment, 10% faster
Sentinel: light->heavy, grenade, ~310 ehp, 1 high, 2 low

I could see the Commando getting a 100-200 more EHP, but I'd rather they make new stuff UP than OP and slowly buff it.

your still comparing it to the heavy and not the Amarr assault... i am bored so im willing to take a shot at movement speed and guess that sprint speed is 6.6 and movement non-sprint is 4.6 which is slightly under the movement speed of the assault frame for Amarr. i got this by dividing the numbers (395) by 60 and got 6.58(closer to 6.6 so i rounded up) and looked up the Amarr speed and the sprint speed is 6.7 for assaults and 4.8 for normal.
the speed of the heavy are 3.6 normal and 5.1 for spring so it makes sense it not meant to tank like a heavy suit but be fast like the Amarr assaults. so stop dismissing with checking first.

@ladwar: why would i compare it to an amarr assault? commando is a heavy suit

I'm going to go with what everyone else seems to be thinking, which is that 395 is a typo and it's mean to be 3.95.

I'm going to go with what everyone else seems to be thinking, which is that 395 is a typo and it's mean to be 3.95.

Thanks for posting the concept for the new drop suit prior to the patch.

Since all we have is raw numbers I'll say that it looks like a very interesting suit that may need additional buffs but we can't possibly know that until everyone plays it for a while. It also looks like it has the potential to be fairly OP, but we can't know that until we really start playing it and getting a feel for how it's fitting into current game balance.

I'm always fascinated that prior to something even being playable everyone already knows what is wrong with it and how to fix it.

490 shields and 469 armor with twi complex shield extenders and a complex armorplate...


Yeah, the survivability is not lacking at all and considering it can almost move as fast as a Logistics id imagine this is going to be the new flavor ofthe month thats going to make this game justfeel pointless for the rest of us...


Count me the **** out...

One of the big things mentioned in the Uprising 1.2 blog from CCP Praetorian was the addition of a new dropsuit role; the Commando. The Commando brings the unique ability to equip two light weapons at the same time, giving it unparalleled versatility in its engagement profile, while sacrificing flexibility in slots and grenades.

CCP Remnant discusses the design decisions behind the Commando dropsuit in this newest dev blog.

One of the big things mentioned in the Uprising 1.2 blog from CCP Praetorian was the addition of a new dropsuit role; the Commando. The Commando brings the unique ability to equip two light weapons at the same time, giving it unparalleled versatility in its engagement profile, while sacrificing flexibility in slots and grenades.

CCP Remnant discusses the design decisions behind the Commando dropsuit in this newest dev blog.

pics or it never happened!

I played it. It happened! #iwasthere

Yeah, people seem to want this "Commando" to be better than the grunt suits. It has its own niche, it's not supposed to be better than everything else.

For one it can out reload any suit out there, because when maxed out you get another 25% of reload speed on top of what your weapon skills provide. That makes a few more bullets and a swarm more.

(Spot saved for sentinel comparison who also has reload speed ability)

I like the concept. I almost think it would be a natural transition for someone like me who plays Logistics most of the time. My Minmater Logi suits reach enhanced HP numbers close to this and the speed is pretty close too I think. I really like the idea of being able to carry two Light weapons. With the equipment slot this would be a nice A/V class with Swarms and whatever other weapon suit the specific map you are on. I have not crunched the numbers but at first glance it has piqued my interest.

Of course I will definitely wait until all racial variants are available before I make a firm decision. This type of suit might not get a lot of players excited but I am glad CCP's intent is to offer a lot of different options. That is never a bad thing. Keep 'em coming!

The Commando suits looks nice. Equip with an AR and a scrambler rifle, this is deadly.

I for one will appreciate if they are starting the new role at a point where it's definitely underpowered so it won't disturb the current balance, and then tuning it up over time. I've worked on many projects and I know that you don't roll something out with the assumption that it's perfectly tuned. With a game I think it's better to err on the safe side, especially since the people jumping into this suit early on will likely be veterans with maxed out support skills. You don't want something to come out and ruin whatever ecosystem is already there when it's a lot more powerful than it looks on paper. With these specs, the suit can be more powerful than it is on paper and still be slightly underpowered.

Even in EVE's tenth year they've done a massive ship rebalancing, so clearly these guys are familiar with the inevitability that this isn't the final state (if there ever is a "final state").

Just to let you guys know, CCP Remnant is a developer in Shanghai and this blog was put out at roughly... oh... 1:30 AM there. So he'd be in bed.

He will be able to check and respond to your feedback when he gets into the office.

Do I really need to do another comparison with all the math? Amarr proto basic heavy can beat the commando out of this combo in everything but reload speed and 27m on the AR because of equipping an SMG. Same range and damage with the SCRuse proto sentinel you lose only .5 reload speed and 20dps. Both will have 450+ ehp than commando. Its not worth comparing ADV/STD because commando is even farther behind. Look at my previous posts for long math and stat heavy comparisons. They start onon page 3 I think.

Edit: SCR. If you use* (my phone wont let me fix for some reason)

A lot of your comparison is valid, but the Sentinel gets a bonus to heavy weapon reload speed. Not light weapons/all weapons. Just heavy. So the current Commando still has a 25% bonus over your SR/SMG combo Sentinel.

if they are keeping the nade slot they could atleast let one of the light slots be a heavy slot so the big guy could equip one of his only 2 guns, that would be fair with how weak he is, taking the heavy slot too is just too much

You know what this commando DropSuit is just stupid, I mean seriously why should a single race have sooooo many advantages in different suits. It's already bad enough that this race has 6 different DropSuits (4 if you're not counting the basic Medium and heavy frame). Why should Amarr have more DropSuits than all the other races? Look at Caldari all the got is Assault and Logistics. ALL RACES should have a fair amount of DropSuits so they could all be on an even plain field.

Are there any plans for new suits other than the Amarr? For example a heavy class suit for the Gallente? It seems that the Amarr are getting everything or just first to get everything. Thanks

Right, like all the Amarr LAVs we have driving around, and all the Amarr HAVs shooting everything up, and all the Amarr Dropships flying around, all the Amarr turrets that these things are shooting, and all the Amarr weapons, all 3 of them (Scrambler Rifle, Scrambler Pistol, Laser Rifle)
OMG THE AMARR HAVE EVERYTHING!!!.

Mayhaps we could get a respec? :D

Agreed and it only takes amarr heavy three for all the light weapon users to get into with weapons they are already skilled into. Heavies have to skill 2 weapons plus those two weapons support skills completely ignoring the million or two invested to heavy weapons... seems fair

Edit (will return with math showing the disparity)

2nd edit: also adding the heavy weapon slot wouldn't affect those wanting to use 2x light weapons because you scan fit light weps in heavy slots.

Amarr Commando Bonus: +2% to efficacy of shield and armor modules per level.

They should create a modified light drop suit that has a wing suit built into it. Then people could move over the battlefield faster and it would create more intense fighting.

Can't wait for the commando role either!!!!

Agreed and it only takes amarr heavy three for all the light weapon users to get into with weapons they are already skilled into. Heavies have to skill 2 weapons plus those two weapons support skills completely ignoring the million or two invested to heavy weapons... seems fair

Edit (will return with math showing the disparity)

2nd edit: also adding the heavy weapon slot wouldn't affect those wanting to use 2x light weapons because you scan fit light weps in heavy slots.

Back with math and #s for the skill disparity!

So for a non heavy suit user they will need to get dropsuit command from 1 to 3= 61820 xp (18,650+43,530)
Then to unlock the higher tier suit Amarr heavy to 3 = 273600 (24,880+74,600+174,120)
Total SP needed for medium/light user to get into commandos(they already have light weapons)= 335780

Now a Heavy user should have that already but what dont we have light weapons.
To get a light weapon to V = 621840 (12,440+37,300+87,060+174,120+310,920)
Then to stay competitive proficiency to at least 3 = 341850 (31,100+93,250+217,650)
But wait there are 2 light weapon slots so everything x2. Light weapons x2 = 1243680 (621840+621840) Proficiency x2= 683700 (341850+341850)
Total SP for a heavy to get into commando = 1927380

So is this a heavy suit for heavies? you tell me Even without proficiencies to 3 its 1243680sp

Edit: #s from https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=439809#post439809

what self respecting assault player, or the overpopular LOGI-ASSAULT guys would drop all of those high and low power slots for a second primary weapon... the assault troopers are generally pretty compotent with SMGs when they HAVE to roll AV, and the logi-bros are probably not rolling out with swarms on their expensive logi suits with no sidearm... not to mention its 500base hp, + a tops of 250? for full tank mods(116? plate, 66 shield x2) so estimated 750 before skills, for a total somewhere in the ballpark of 937 hp, for the same or lower DPS of ANY OTHER CLASS... EVERYONE can fit light weapons... why would you want two unless you cant live without your duvolle assault rifle AND your proto swarms(which i doubt you can fit dual proto with ANY tank)...

So in other words no one wants this suit as it stands CCP

Someone may have caught this already, but the module efficiency skill bonus combined with Standard having no module slots means that Standard-tier Commandos will not be able to use their racial bonus.
Gear not able to use its own racial bonuses is rather high up on my pet-peeve list, as a gear item in such a position will inevitably be left behind by its peers due to the strengths of said bonuses.

when are we going to get the gallente, minmatar, and caldari heavy? i want to see those.

Noooo!! that's gonna make this unfair, you should just keep it to one light weapon. that's just my opinion.

Just to let you guys know, CCP Remnant is a developer in Shanghai and this blog was put out at roughly... oh... 1:30 AM there. So he'd be in bed.

He will be able to check and respond to your feedback when he gets into the office.

One of the big things mentioned in the Uprising 1.2 blog from CCP Praetorian was the addition of a new dropsuit role; the Commando. The Commando brings the unique ability to equip two light weapons at the same time, giving it unparalleled versatility in its engagement profile, while sacrificing flexibility in slots and grenades.

CCP Remnant discusses the design decisions behind the Commando dropsuit in this newest dev blog.

I speeded in to this role to the level 3 and it is horrible other than the cool red suit the commmand is a serious fail. I tried every thing to make it work you guys were better off just giving the racial heavies

There still are some needed answers on this. I don't want to spec into ADV suits before I know anything else about how the bonus applies to modules...

* Does the suit at +2% efficacy on top of the modules bonus? So at level 5 does a basic shield recharger repair +15%+10% so +25% or is it +15%*1.1 or +16.5%?

Its the latter. I am pretty sure all similar bonus percentages are multiplied not added.

Also, to the poster above, it is not just shield / armor extenders it applies to other modules as well. If you put on a Militia Armor repper you will see the HP/Sec will be 1.06 (I have 3 skill in Commando) instead of 1.0.

I skilled up a bit in Repair and the bonuses do add up. With 1 Enhanced Armor Repairer I end up having 2.23 HP/second. I watched it tick up in game and it does add up so it would go along at 2, 2, 2, 2, 3

dont forget amarr and cald scouts... this new uprising concept of all 4 races having ALL of the suits... kinda killing the mood... it had thought it was more interesting when each race was ACTUALLY unique... without all the balancing and redundancy issues... not to mention that they havent even been able to get the STARTER ROLES content complete before adding additional specialties... what about the guy who wants to roll a gallente heavy or a caldari light? but the amarr heavy gets new toys already above and beyond his HMG/FORGE...

What is the sprint speed?

One of the big things mentioned in the Uprising 1.2 blog from CCP Praetorian was the addition of a new dropsuit role; the Commando. The Commando brings the unique ability to equip two light weapons at the same time, giving it unparalleled versatility in its engagement profile, while sacrificing flexibility in slots and grenades.

CCP Remnant discusses the design decisions behind the Commando dropsuit in this newest dev blog.