There should be no more respecs given at all. There is one major reason for this.

No respecs provide balance to the game. When you allow people to continuously respec, you will have everyone flocking to the nearest OP weapon. With no respecs it takes time for people to skill up into those OP weapons which gives CCP more time to balance them before the majority of the population starts using it.

For those of you who decide to skill into future glaringly OP weapons congratulations and enjoy it while it last. They will be nerfed and you should not be entitled to a skill respec.

My belief is that they should have one last respec when they finished the core stuff that is missing right now. After that no more respecs is ok.

My belief is that they should have one last respec when they finished the core stuff that is missing right now. After that no more respecs is ok.

New Player = "It took me two months, but I've finally skilled up into my role "
CCP = *Swings nerf hammer*
New Player = "Now I'm useless, two months of work for nothing, I'm finished with this game"

Weather or not people can flock to an OP weapon has no bearing on if the weapon is OP or not. The real issue is the OP weapon itself, and once they are balanced, then your argument is in the garbage. Also people respeccing to skill into OP items are screwing themselves since OP items eventually get nerfed.

Keep in mind that we don't have the full set of dropsuits and specializations yet, so many of us have to specialize into weapons and dropsuits that would not have been our first choice. Specialization is needed to be competitive, yet it is unfair to expect people to specialize when all the options aren't present yet; this makes respecs warranted.

It's that players fault for not having the foresight to see that some day his specialization might be changed at random. If he was an intelligent DUST player and resident of New Eden, he would have AFK'd with his SP until we went into official release.

You made the choice to spec into something you didn't want to just to be competitive. No one held a gun to your head and made you do it. You made the choice now live with it.

What about Heavies and their racial variant dropsuits? Would we have to grind SP for a month just so we can get into a prototype Minmitar? Having only the Amarr suit available at release did not give the Heavies any options. All the racial medium frames and one-half of the light frames were released with Uprising. Heavies got nothing.

you will probably have to grind. CCP has shown they don't really care about heavies. Start saving up.

CCP has shown they don't really care about heavies. Start saving up.

CCP plans to keep releasing new content in the years to come. We have no idea when all this content will be out. We need to start somewhere and right now seems like a good place as any. If you know for a fact you want to skill into something like a Gallente heavy, start saving up. That's what I'm doing.

SoTa...bro....it was sarcasm....

You made the choice to spec into something you didn't want to just to be competitive. No one held a gun to your head and made you do it. You made the choice now live with it.

lol my bad.

You newb.

You obviously haven't got Lvl 5 Profiency in Internet Sarcasm Detection

Thats a core skill newb, pfft *Smug look*

You newb.

You obviously haven't got Lvl 5 Profiency in Internet Sarcasm Detection

Thats a core skill newb, pfft *Smug look*

$10 respec with a 1 month cooldown?

Yea you NOOB, how dare you not want to run all militia gear for 17 months while we wait to move into official release.

Noob. NOOOB.

DIP DIP POTATO CHIP!

SoTa...bro....it was sarcasm....

Making respecs cost AUR will only make things worse :/

Payed players already have a strong advantage in terms of lots of SP to play with. Making it so only payed players could change playstyles would just be bad juju.

New Player = "It took me two months, but I've finally skilled up into my role "
CCP = *Swings nerf hammer*
New Player = "Now I'm useless, two months of work for nothing, I'm finished with this game"

If CCP knew how to balance their game then respecs would only serve to freshen things up and keep people interested far longer.

It's ok though. Outdated design philosophies for a separate genre of game will totally make this game stand out.

Fiend, I think it was you with the idea of being able to refund/respec one skill rank every so often, and the points accumulate? Wish I could copy and paste the idea here.

It was the only way to handle respecs that I've seen that sounded fair and balanced enough that it would actually improve the game.

Why thank you, I like that system, personally. Forcing people to pay money to change their build is just asking for trouble

How is that trouble? In particular, if an overpriced Isk option is available as well? Of course, in either case assuming there is a serious cool-down period.

It's a problem because you're getting very close to P2W if you can just shell out cash to get a respec.

It should either be a slow gradual respec system, or it should cost you a chunk of your SP.

I don't follow on the concept of respec equals win. You've got skill points, that you've already earned, to allocate where you want. Anyone can do so.

I don't follow on the concept of respec equals win. You've got skill points, that you've already earned, to allocate where you want. Anyone can do so.

P2UnfairAdvantage, better?

I'd rather there be no respecs and just eventually get bored of dust and quit than they be a paid option.

**** it. Who cares. Do it up. Nothing matters in this game. At all. We're just here as an experiment for CCP and Sony to see how much they can actually milk the F2P model for. Have at it, I won't be around much longer to care at this rate.

You made the choice to spec into something you didn't want to just to be competitive. No one held a gun to your head and made you do it. You made the choice now live with it.

It seems to me that you just want to force people to live within the decisions they have made... even though they were noobs at the time and will likely be driven from the game if they have to wait 6 months to get into a style of game play they would actually find more enjoyable.

If the cost in isk is high as you suggest it creates a barrier to frequent respecs. This would be able to be bypassed with AUR as it's instantly replenishable. Of course if a cool down were implemented it could reduce the effect of this potential issue, but would still exempt AUR users from dipping into their finite at any given time isk supply.

Are you kidding me?

I'm constantly stirring the pot on this issue and fighting for a form of respec.

I'm sorry that I don't feel that alienating a certain % of the community by forcing them to pay actual cash to fix their mistakes is a good idea.

There are plenty of other things that can and do draw in the AUR sales, a skill respec should never be one of them. That's something that needs to be available to everyone, or no one.

ISK is a lot easier to make then people think. Corps depending on their internal model can make 10's of millions a day based on what areas they hold and how members are paying back in. After transfers to any player become available players could easily turn alt accounts and characters into ISK mules by creating, funneling starter ISK to a main character, and then deleting them in 10 hours cycles.

AUR items are available to everyone.

AUR items are available to everyone.

Please, no offense, just help me understand what advantage someone gains via a respec.

Respec's need to hurt, or only be partial respecs.

My two favorite methods would probably be the gradual refund system, which every week gives you one refund point which you can use to take a point out of any given skill. These stack up and sit in your pool until you spend them.

Then there is the full respec that takes something like 250K SP to do each time (+50K each time after, up to 500K per respec). This allows those who really screwed up the option to get their respec while strongly discouraging frequent respecs by setting you back a week each time


Everyone who has money, yes.

ISK is a lot easier to make then people think. Corps depending on their internal model can make 10's of millions a day based on what areas they hold and how members are paying back in. After transfers to any player become available players could easily turn alt accounts and characters into ISK mules by creating, funneling starter ISK to a main character, and then deleting them in 10 hours cycles.

Respec's need to hurt, or only be partial respecs.

My two favorite methods would probably be the gradual refund system, which every week gives you one refund point which you can use to take a point out of any given skill. These stack up and sit in your pool until you spend them.

Then there is the full respec that takes something like 250K SP to do each time (+50K each time after, up to 500K per respec). This allows those who really screwed up the option to get their respec while strongly discouraging frequent respecs by setting you back a week each time


Everyone who has money, yes.

New Player = "It took me two months, but I've finally skilled up into my role "
CCP = *Swings nerf hammer*
New Player = "Now I'm useless, two months of work for nothing, I'm finished with this game"

that is not ccp's target market.

that is not ccp's target market.

For partial I'd say simply being able to respec a particular page (dropsuit command, dropsuit upgrades etc) that had some sort of cooldown time between usage.

I'm also starting to like the idea of a free respec that has a month or more cooldown. However said cooldown can be overridden with an SP cost that is based on the time left on the cooldown, and the SP cost must be paid from unallocated SP.

I'd argue that both of these ideas still let respecs happen so often you'd end up with never-ending FOTM chasing still. It'd just be slowed down to a monthly cycle.

The only reason (and the main reason) I like DUST's idea is that it's slow. It'd take months to go from a fully-kitted TAC using Caldari Logi to a Flaylock spewing Minnie Assault. And since you'd be prevented from making a knee-jerk respec, you might find you still liked your post-nerf Caldari Logi and keep the points in it anyway.

Any solution must be slow and limited to prevent FOTM chasing. DUST Fiend's is the only one I've heard that does it. The only other option would be: no respec whatsoever. Which is what we already have.

I've asked before and never got an answer other then it would be the same as any other game, hobby or what have with an for of meta-game, but why is Flavor of the Month chasing so bad in the first place?

People think it will kill diversity, but in a halfway balanced environment, it would only encourage diversity.

More importantly, it would encourage people to have FUN.

You know damn well it wouldn't encourage diversity. Every FPS game suffers from FOTM chasers and dust is no exception. If CCP does let the people have multiple respecs, it will lead to everyone using the same weapon. Live with your decisions. And for those who live by the OP weapons they will die by the nerf.

If CCP knew how to balance their game then respecs would only serve to freshen things up and keep people interested far longer.

It's ok though. Outdated design philosophies for a separate genre of game will totally make this game stand out.

Yeah because respecing is very original and creates diversity.

It does, by keeping people interested in a boring game by letting them actually do other things.

Since there's still no form of tutorials or new player help, we'll be seeing PLENTY of wonky builds, even if everyone got a free respec twice a day



Really this is just spreadsheet warriors afraid that they'll loose their only advantage on the field if players are allowed to learn from their mistakes

How about for racial Heavy's, Lights, and vehicle frames? They get ****** over? **** that; they should only people to get a respec, and that's only for the frame ( Say, I skilled Winmatar light frame, and I wanted Amarr, I would lose all of the light and scout skill levels, then transfer them over).

My .02 ISK


Peace, Godin

There should be no more respecs given at all. There is one major reason for this.

No respecs provide balance to the game. When you allow people to continuously respec, you will have everyone flocking to the nearest OP weapon. With no respecs it takes time for people to skill up into those OP weapons which gives CCP more time to balance them before the majority of the population starts using it.

For those of you who decide to skill into future glaringly OP weapons congratulations and enjoy it while it last. They will be nerfed and you should not be entitled to a skill respec.

Everyone who has money, yes.

There should be no more respecs given at all. There is one major reason for this.

No respecs provide balance to the game. When you allow people to continuously respec, you will have everyone flocking to the nearest OP weapon. With no respecs it takes time for people to skill up into those OP weapons which gives CCP more time to balance them before the majority of the population starts using it.

For those of you who decide to skill into future glaringly OP weapons congratulations and enjoy it while it last. They will be nerfed and you should not be entitled to a skill respec.

News flash... games are made to earn money... deet dit deet da deet dit.

Seriously though, if you simply want another currency available, such as SP instead of Isk, it's the same thing. The idea of AUR as a payment method is to, once gain, allow the company to make money by offering convenience to those who have jobs and have money but limited time.

These people aren't going to get ahead of you, they won't harm the game, we need a player base of people that aren't spreadsheet driven. They'll need to try new things as new content, PvE, or weapons, or fits comes out. I get that we like to hold people to their choices -- but we also need the game the stick around.

Note, you also didn't describe how people get an advantage via a respec... you just bitched at me, again.

Weather or not people can flock to an OP weapon has no bearing on if the weapon is OP or not. The real issue is the OP weapon itself, and once they are balanced, then your argument is in the garbage. Also people respeccing to skill into OP items are screwing themselves since OP items eventually get nerfed.

Keep in mind that we don't have the full set of racial ARs, dropsuits and specializations yet, so many of us have to specialize into weapons and dropsuits that would not have been our first choice. Specialization is needed to be competitive, yet it is unfair to expect people to specialize when all the options aren't present yet; this makes respecs warranted.

Or maybe CCP has to fully test the game first to balance everything. How does one test all items? Let the players respec as much as they want so they can test everything.

Once everything is balanced and the game is ready for its REAL release you can stop giving respecs (but maybe by that time you will realise that respecing doesn't harm the game).

But nice try to push your anti-respec-agenda.

Note, you also didn't describe how people get an advantage via a respec... you just bitched at me, again.

The game will never have balance because new gear will always be introduced. Respecs are bad for DUST because it takes away from the persistance that is promoted. I don't want to see a mercs name and have to guess on what they will be doing in this battle because they just introduced a new suit or weapon.

The game will never have balance because new gear will always be introduced. Respecs are bad for DUST because it takes away from the persistance that is promoted. I don't want to see a mercs name and have to guess on what they will be doing in this battle because they just introduced a new suit or weapon.

I wasn't even talking to you, get over yourself.

If you aren't talking to me perhaps don't reply to my posts? Anyhow, you may want to consider your own advice.

If CCP knew how to balance their game then respecs would only serve to freshen things up and keep people interested far longer.

It's ok though. Outdated design philosophies for a separate genre of game will totally make this game stand out.

It seems the vast majority of the opposition are basing their argument on CCP being able to balance Dust correctly. Have they been able to balance Dust so far?

It seems the vast majority of the opposition are basing their argument on CCP being able to balance Dust correctly. Have they been able to balance Dust so far?

NO RESETS LEARN TO SPEND YOUR SP LIKE A RESPONSABLE GAMER OR STOP QQ ITS YOUR OWN DAMN FAULTS FOR SPECING INTO A HUNDRED THINGS I HAVE LESS THEN 25 SKILLS BUT THERE ALL ALMOST MAXED YOU KNOW WHY BECUASE I DIDNT SPEND LITTLE AMOUNTS I SAVED FOR MONTHS TO GET SOME SKILLS IT SUX STOP BITCHING THIS GAME ISENT FOR CASUAL PLAYERS GO PLAY COD OR SOMETHING

I agree with you here. A freind of mine like to play havy, but not as amarr for example. Still ne must skill this so he can learn how it is to a heavy. Its not like he likes to be in a amarr suit. I feel that this game is extremly unfinished we need the core things, all racial weapons and standart suits.

Esp considering using the same build day after day gets so boring.

What if I wanna try speed shotgun logi? Nope... gotta grind 3 million SP (6-8 weeks depending on booster usage) for proto kin cats and proto shotguns first...

$10 respec with a 1 month cooldown? Almost everyone is happy as they can escape poor choices they made or just spice things up a bit with a new build. CCP gets a new revenue stream that is not pay to win...

I honestly see very little reason not to do it anymore...

@CuuCH Crusher No-one is saying you should be able to respec every 5min or without a cost, I don't really see your problem against respecs and don't you think that the game will become more interesting if you can switch up your play styles?

You people have no imagination whatsoever.

Fact is the game is full of content that most people don't spec into because it isnt functional and they don't want to be "stuck" with it.

The notion that we should limit respecs to force people into making decisions or to prevent FOTM respecs is ludicrous and only exists because the game developers create a weapon or item that is out of balance with the rest. To fault the players for flocking to it put blame squarely on the wrong people.


Now that said unlimited respeccing would be problematic and really wasteful. For those players that think the universe should be about making your descision matter I would counter by saying its as simple as changing neural implants that result in a mercs ability to respec and thus follow lore if its really that important to you.


From a financial standpoint a Respec should cost money and to me is a better way to get money from dust players without nickel and dimeing them over SP.

Now it may be impossible to limit individual respecs to only 2x/year but if possible they should aim to do so in addition to how they allow respec to occur. Which should be in the form of an augmentation.

This augmentation should be avaiable for ISK and AUR. But the pricing should be somewhere in the plex range if not higher. The idea here being it isn't fully P2W if the item is avaialble for ISK and AUR and if the cost is high enough it wont be used constantly but sparingly. If CCP can enforce 2 use policy every 12 months or something then CCP has created their own version of DLC. By purchasing these augmentations CCP is giving players the opportunity to access new content in the form a different specialty 2x/year.

It may be wise to even allow 1x/year Free respecs to really keep the game fresh for players and allow them to experience the game in a different way.

The benefits of this far outweighs the negatives of FOTM speccing, more to the point FOTM speccing only becomes a problem if the Devs make FOTM stuff. Add in the limitations of respecs should CCP enforce such a mechanic the risk of FOTM speccing become hazardous to anyone who goes that route if CCP is quick on balancing.

It took a month to make changes to the TAC. An optional respect would at best mean they are stuck with their decisions for the rest of the year if they use their one freebie right after or if they purchase they only have 1 additional paid respec.

If CCP has to give ReSpecs to keep the casuals interested, they might as well give up on all character development. You might keep players who are bored for a little bit longer, but it wouldn't be worth it (Dust 514 fails on pure shooter merits). They will still get bored. If they (the gamer) believe in the future of Dust 514, you (CCP) can demand their patience and dedication to character development. You can expect turnover, but I think that will result in a steadily growing population of dedicated people who can see themselves playing Dust 514 for 5 or 10 years. Why would you bother trying to eek a couple more months out of some casual gamer who is interested in a flavor of the month? This month it's LLAV, next month it will be BF4 or PS2, and I say, "let them go."

Well said. Casuals come and go. It's the hardcore gamers that stay. CCP should try to appeal to the hardcore gamers and make the gameplay so great that it converts casuals into hardcore. They should focus on gameplay. Not holding peoples hand.

I think you and I have different definitions of hardcore gamers. You are probably thinking of Hardcore RPGers who are so invested into their characters it borders on an emotional codependence.

Hardcore shooters want to experience great shooting and want to try new things. Its about content consumption. Allowing respecs

1 free and 1 paid per year creates a hybrid model of what CCP does in EVE while allowing for essentially a paid DLC model to enter into the game. By allowing for up to 2 respecs a year you are keeping hardcore shooter fans interested with the ability to experience new content without having free reign and a limitless number of repecs.


Ive already given a lore perspective on how this may be possible so if hardcore RPGing is your thing well ive already provided the needed rationales from a lore perspective that would permit it.

If a respec system was implemented(opposed, btw) any more than 1 or 2 a year would remove the consequences of decisions to dump SP into an OP style (caldari logi). "Who cares, I will just respec when the fix it" I never want to hear that.

Your logic is that we can't switch between different roles and weapons because we end up with a COD clone?

I never played COD can u explain? What's so bad about it?

If the game ages and people have access to more SP won't they be able to switch it up? So it still will be COD in the long run?

What makes the players able to switch it up all the time if there is a restricted respec?

Then they shouldn't adjust gear when it's released because all you people are saying you have to stick with your choice, but when they adjust it, it isn't your choice anymore. Resulting in a **** game.

Thereshould be no respec unless they change skills imsick of ppl specing into the flavor ofthe month deal with it ahh qq wahh

I for one can't wait for aurum paid respecs.

You act as if they are pulling teeth, just deal with it. Your tears are not worth ruining what appealed to many. May as well drop all skill requirements on gear, if it becomes so easy to switch SP around.

Who said you cannot try new things? It is not like you are stuck with only a certain amount of SP. You can always earn more whether that be passively or actively. My point is that you must choose what "new things" you want to try. This requires making good decisions. This makes Dust different from other shooters. Why are people so eager to change it into a COD clone?

I use COD loosely. By that I mean just another cookie cutter FPS with no real innovation. People are getting sick of the same old shooters. I you get rid of the SP system or make it irrelevant, you effectively killed what made the game different. Yes in the long run people will be able to diversify. This is the main reason we don't need respecs. In the short run it is cool that people have to specialize. In the end we will all end up in the same place, but how we all got there will be different, which I think sets dust apart from the rest of the shooters.

What about people that don't want to respec in FOTM? (What where the FOTMs up untill now BTW?)

Aren't you seeing all the people that are bored of DUST now? Don't really think that DUST has anything innovative as a FPS-mechanics, maybe in the future...DUST can be more innovative than a SP system so you guys are still happy. The current SP system is just a drag that attracts AFKers and makes people spec into the same thing out of fear.....sounds really fun to play. What are you going to do at that 'end-point'? Tell stories how you got the same build?

It takes many months to try new things, IE switching from a heavy to say a dropship pilot or tanker or just a new suit weapon combination.


Yes over time respecs will be less useful to the veteran population but not for years down the road and that can still be extended as more content is introduced. Of which CCP says there will be plenty of.
Your assertion that allowing a limited respec 1 FREE, 1 Paid would in anyway turn this game into a COD clone. You only get 2 chances a year and thats ONLY if you PAY. Otherwise once per year doesn't do anything to break the game.


It is not CCPs job to prevent players from speccing into FOTM gear, its their job to ensure none exist. Moreover given the rate at which content looks to be added a respec into a FOTM would easily trap a person in for a long time as they would have to use their LIMITED number of respecs.


My solution covers all angles,

Lore
Content generation
Balance
Keeping the game Fresh
Monetary acquisition for CCP.

Game needs Respec's or it will continue to lose players due to boredom

Game needs Respec's or it will continue to lose players due to boredom

All weapons and suits AR cheap enough at entry level to get a feel for them. The problem is that these respecers want proto gear the day it comes out instead of having a goal to work towards. Try lower tier and if you like it then upgrade. Respecs are not the same as remaps in EVE. Selling respecs is P2W. If you want to try new gear then save SP. Balance cannot happen if the balance is based off of a merc running gear with perfect skills becase they got a respec.

All weapons and suits AR cheap enough at entry level to get a feel for them. The problem is that these respecers want proto gear the day it comes out instead of having a goal to work towards. Try lower tier and if you like it then upgrade. Respecs are not the same as remaps in EVE. Selling respecs is P2W. If you want to try new gear then save SP. Balance cannot happen if the balance is based off of a merc running gear with perfect skills becase they got a respec.

True. Selling respecs would definitely turn this game into P2W. I say just leave the SP system alone and work on gameplay and hit detection. Build the game up. Don't tear down what makes it unique.

True. Selling respecs would definitely turn this game into P2W. I say just leave the SP system alone and work on gameplay and hit detection. Build the game up. Don't tear down what makes it unique.

Don't spend all your SP and you don't need a respec. The game is boring because we don't have all the content needed to keep it fun and reallocation of SP won't help make it fun. If everyone specs into the tac and cal logi because they are op then they will do the same thing with the next seemingly op gear when all the SP is refunded. Lots of people say this isn't EVE and they are correct but EVE is in the name. They say not to copy over a skill system from another game but yet most fps offer some type of reallocation method. Play the game for what it is, this is CCP's game and we should play by their rules.

Why should you have to pay for something you already earned? Paying for Respec's is dumb unless it's purely isk.

Also, Can you name on game in the history of video games that has ever got better core mechanic post release?

It's NEVER happened, not even COD will billions can get it perfect.

Stop living in some fantasy world where this game magically transforms from **** to gold, not going to happen on PS3 maybe on PS4 but even that's a huge stretch.

Tis upto CCP now. There have been plenty of threads and a lot of discussion for and against in those threads. If the respeccers form the majority of the current player base then things could get bad later this year but if we are in the minority then things will go along with very little change.

At this point CCP is either convinced on the matter or not. If not then they will just have to accept the consequences, if any.

Yeah we should have not said a damn thing on the forums about uprising. it was fine the way they made it. not one problem, just eat it. buy boosters too. lets get in a big line and kiss thier ass.

DUST514 the game where you make the choice to wait until the game is decent enough for an actual release or just be ****** up later on.

Clearly I'm the only one that thinks this game needs work on all its gear with some decent testing (aka Beta) but hey I'm the ignorant fuckhead that wants to ruin the game mechanics that are already broken.

I'm currently just staying for the people I play with, but yes leaving the game is on my mind because each day seems like that CCP won't be able to recover from their UPRISING-fuckup anytime soon and missed their boat to be innovative. Not respeccing will only slow this process down, that's why I'm in favor of respeccing until the game is decent enough and it's also a great way to evaluate respeccing (which means it doesn't have to be permanent). Anyway feel free to think I'm just QQ'ing because I'm afraid of a NERF (not even specced into OP stuff) or that I invested my SP wrong we'll see how the game will end SOONGäó.

Are you dumb? I've already earned my SP, I should choose where and when I want to invest in a skill.

Hopefully the player base will slowly rise over time as more unique content is added. The expansions - just like in EVE - will drive some off but usually brings more back. New console games will pull people away for a while but will not keep them because those games are a finished product with a shelf life. DUST will continue to grow and offer more things to more people. It's a slow burn and a bumpy road but it will end up in a good spot if we don't give in.

How do you earn something you can only request when new skills are added?

Why should you have to pay for something you already earned? Paying for Respec's is dumb unless it's purely isk.

Also, Can you name on game in the history of video games that has ever got better core mechanic post release?

It's NEVER happened, not even COD will billions can get it perfect.

Stop living in some fantasy world where this game magically transforms from **** to gold, not going to happen on PS3 maybe on PS4 but even that's a huge stretch.

Obviously, you are, since you don't understand how to quote properly (you're welcome for me fixing it for you).

Since you've earned your SP and would like to choose when and where you invest them into skills, I recommend holding off on investing in skills until you are 100% sure you want the skills you invest in.

Otherwise, spend away and don't cry about no respecs. If you've spent what you've earned, then you are owed nothing.

Are you dumb? I've already earned my SP, I should choose where and when I want to invest in a skill.

Skyrim, simcity, eve and diablo just off the top of my head. And I am pretty sure cod has had to patch a few times.

hope is not that great as a strategy. We had tons of players for a week or so. its the lack of content, there is plenty for me with my 15 mil SP, but newer guys get the shaft. I have got to try all the suits and guns because i have had two respecs. most people wont even be able to change guns for 6 months. their initial bulk of skill points wasted because they got dumped an academy with no instructors. if you dont want respecs fine, shut up. an added feature couldnt hurt this game. i signed on sat morn there was less than 3000 playing. we have to keep people around to shoot at.

Why should you have to pay for something you already earned? Paying for Respec's is dumb unless it's purely isk.

Also, Can you name on game in the history of video games that has ever got better core mechanic post release?

It's NEVER happened, not even COD will billions can get it perfect.

Stop living in some fantasy world where this game magically transforms from **** to gold, not going to happen on PS3 maybe on PS4 but even that's a huge stretch.

Are you really dumb enough to make it about me?

Ever consider the fact nobody is playing this game? Respecs will keep people playing, notice their was more people on when respec's were handed out?

You can have it your way though, I really don't care at this point if the game succeeds or fails, with ps4 around the corner I rarely turn on my ps3 now. And this game you love so dearly will be dead, but just know along with the DEVs you and the rest of the community helped kill this game as well by putting pure garbage on the forums on a daily basis.

Also, I got everything I want. I just want to used something different.

I have 3 proto weapons, a proto suit and multiple proto modules.

I don't need a respec because of lack of gear or lack of success with current gear, I dominate this game as is and always have and always will.

I just want to have fun when I sign on and not penny pinch SP worrying about what weapon the forums nerds are going to cry about next.


I used a credron in beta, it got nerfed, I use a douv in release, it got nerfed, I use a TAC, it got nerfed, I use RE's ,they got nerfed.

Sorry but we don't play by your rules. We shouldn't have to change the game, just to suit your play style. Adapt or die.

I understand that upcoming nerfs make us nervous but CCP does fix things. They are working on a difficult to program piece of hardware that is 7 years old on a schedule that they don't have full control over. I am saying don't jump ship. Play another game for a while and come back. Taking a break really helps.

NONE of those are shooters, you idiot or even relate to what I was talking about.

NONE of those are shooters, you idiot or even relate to what I was talking about.

Adapt or die? LOL your on the forums asking for nerfs, trying taking your own advice.

How do I adapt from being the best player and in the best corp?

Please explain?

Adapt or die? LOL your on the forums asking for nerfs, trying taking your own advice.

How do I adapt from being the best player and in the best corp?

Please explain?

Why should CCP change core game mechanics for a small portion of the population. The silent majority is fine with how the system works now. If not you wouldn't see the same people playing day in and day out.

Silent majority eh? Try the rabble that is left after the REAL MAJORITY already left. So yea keep burying your head in the sand that you few are enough to allow this game to continue on and grow and become everything its supposed to be.
And sorry SP system thats can't be re-designated isn't a core mechanic its a design feature and one that doesn't even exist in eve to this extent.


You just don't like Veteran players having the opportunity to learn in hindsight and new players to correct initial mistakes before they fully understood the game. Yea no sorry but game needs to stay fresh and one of the easiest ways CCP can do that until they add in more and more content is the opportunity for players to experience that content through LIMITED RESPECING.

Also in your outright dismissal I notice how you haven't yet rebuffed any of what i said with a logical counterpoint. On the other hand CCP has changed core game mechanical features constantly in an effort to "improve" the game and gameplay.

All weapons and suits AR cheap enough at entry level to get a feel for them. The problem is that these respecers want proto gear the day it comes out instead of having a goal to work towards. Try lower tier and if you like it then upgrade. Respecs are not the same as remaps in EVE. Selling respecs is P2W. If you want to try new gear then save SP. Balance cannot happen if the balance is based off of a merc running gear with perfect skills becase they got a respec.

And sorry SP system thats can't be re-designated isn't a core mechanic its a design feature and one that doesn't even exist in eve to this extent.

You just don't like Veteran players having the opportunity to learn in hindsight and new players to correct initial mistakes before they fully understood the game. Yea no sorry but game needs to stay fresh and one of the easiest ways CCP can do that until they add in more and more content is the opportunity for players to experience that content through LIMITED RESPECING.

Also in your outright dismissal I notice how you haven't yet rebuffed any of what i said with a logical counterpoint. On the other hand CCP has changed core game mechanical features constantly in an effort to "improve" the game and gameplay.

no more respecs. When they nerf logi to actually have to be logi, all those people in proto logi suits that don't even like repping people should feel the pain.

The root of the problem is that scrubs are scrubs, they make bad choices and fail. Pros are pros and they make good decisions and win. Don't reward stupidity or punish mercs who read, think and research.

Selling Respecs aren't P2W if they are sold in the manner that PLEXs are and/or as an augmentation. Then they can either be

A) Made available on the NPC market for ISK

B) Made avaiable on the Player market for ISK, AUR, Trade.


And in the end if everyone is given 1 FREE Respec and have the opportunity to purchase 1 PAID respec a year for a total of 2 then you are paying for one more bite at the apple and if trades and all the like are available but still limited to a single use then everyone is getting the same number of chances and not everyone is being forced to pay if they get it in the market for ISK.


I am open to the idea that if the market comes ahead of this augmentation then perhaps not even allowing the 1 Freebie and require all respecs to be paid with AURum or acquired through player market. The only question becomes is if limit is 2x year is there a way for a person to purchase more than 2 but still for the game code to recognize they have already hit max limit and cant use them only trade them. If not then respecs become a rationed commodity in which in theory there are only 2x X number players possible out there. Thus those who choose not to purchase with AUR may find these items skyrocket in terms of ISK value depending on the Demand given there will only ever be a fixed supply within a year.

This would create a rather nice market commoditiy with a great tie in for market players who could have fun with just this augmentation alone and it would be a pretty nice revenue generator for CCP if they priced it b/w 9.99 and 19.99

People like this is why the ANTI-respec crowd seem to just have this opinion because they are just bitter because they got killed by caldari logis.

-an actual support-logi that is too tired of his role because of the broken game.

My bad what page is your post on? Tell me and I'll get back with you. I'm always willing to debate.

You people have no imagination whatsoever.

Fact is the game is full of content that most people don't spec into because it isnt functional and they don't want to be "stuck" with it.

The notion that we should limit respecs to force people into making decisions or to prevent FOTM respecs is ludicrous and only exists because the game developers create a weapon or item that is out of balance with the rest. To fault the players for flocking to it put blame squarely on the wrong people.


Now that said unlimited respeccing would be problematic and really wasteful. For those players that think the universe should be about making your descision matter I would counter by saying its as simple as changing neural implants that result in a mercs ability to respec and thus follow lore if its really that important to you.


From a financial standpoint a Respec should cost money and to me is a better way to get money from dust players without nickel and dimeing them over SP.

Now it may be impossible to limit individual respecs to only 2x/year but if possible they should aim to do so in addition to how they allow respec to occur. Which should be in the form of an augmentation.

This augmentation should be avaiable for ISK and AUR. But the pricing should be somewhere in the plex range if not higher. The idea here being it isn't fully P2W if the item is avaialble for ISK and AUR and if the cost is high enough it wont be used constantly but sparingly. If CCP can enforce 2 use policy every 12 months or something then CCP has created their own version of DLC. By purchasing these augmentations CCP is giving players the opportunity to access new content in the form a different specialty 2x/year.

It may be wise to even allow 1x/year Free respecs to really keep the game fresh for players and allow them to experience the game in a different way.

The benefits of this far outweighs the negatives of FOTM speccing, more to the point FOTM speccing only becomes a problem if the Devs make FOTM stuff. Add in the limitations of respecs should CCP enforce such a mechanic the risk of FOTM speccing become hazardous to anyone who goes that route if CCP is quick on balancing.

It took a month to make changes to the TAC. An optional respect would at best mean they are stuck with their decisions for the rest of the year if they use their one freebie right after or if they purchase they only have 1 additional paid respec.

This is true. I started this game last month. I was a super scrub. I had to reset my character 10 times and spent about a month testing different builds before I found a role that I liked and fit my play style. Bad decisions should never be rewarded.

There should be no more respecs given at all. There is one major reason for this.

No respecs provide balance to the game. When you allow people to continuously respec, you will have everyone flocking to the nearest OP weapon. With no respecs it takes time for people to skill up into those OP weapons which gives CCP more time to balance them before the majority of the population starts using it.

For those of you who decide to skill into future glaringly OP weapons congratulations and enjoy it while it last. They will be nerfed and you should not be entitled to a skill respec.

They already flock to the OP weapons just takes them 2 weeks or so.

Great idea and I think it would work and generation income. However, I am trying to stay in the spirit of the game by sticking with choices mean something. Being able to change my fundamental play style I ruin the idea of persistence. The skill system is sparse and underwhelming but usable. We have something unique and we should keep it because it isn't the worst thing ever.

Okay i get wanting to stick to something where there are consequences for decisions. But there are consequences to everything in this game in the form of loss and gain.

I was flirting with the idea of respeccing being driven lore as a method of changing neural implants and thus allowing for retraining. Now perhaps this is a place we can extend consequences further.

If a person were to changes specs with 100% efficiency then that is what the current respeccing would be. What if instead the "nueral implants" that allowed for respeccing were done in clusters so if you chose a cluster of skills (pre-spent SP) it was 100% efficient but perhaps not 100% ideal for the way a player wanted to play that particular suit etc. So the SP was distributed by a premade system.

Now if you wanted the freedom to choose simply make the respec <100% efficient. Perhaps you only get a refund of 80-95% of your SP or perhaps its a sliding scale so the more SP you have the less you are going to get in a respec.


So if you are at 100M SP say instead of 80-95% of your SP you only get 75% SP. Now there is a real consequence to respeccing your character, it follows a rationale lore to drive it(changing neural implants has a loss of efficieny in the transfer of "skils) and it really gives pause to people who simply just want to try new things vs people who would look to use respecs for speccing into FOTM.

Fact is the game is full of content that most people don't spec into because it isnt functional and they don't want to be "stuck" with it.

The notion that we should limit respecs to force people into making decisions or to prevent FOTM respecs is ludicrous and only exists because the game developers create a weapon or item that is out of balance with the rest. To fault the players for flocking to it put blame squarely on the wrong people.

Now that said unlimited respeccing would be problematic and really wasteful. For those players that think the universe should be about making your descision matter I would counter by saying its as simple as changing neural implants that result in a mercs ability to respec and thus follow lore if its really that important to you.

Yes to everything Crusher. Needs to be very steep. If we had spikes and clusters for sell this wouldn't be such a big deal because buying a level with a skills spike and a second with a cluster - I am just speculating on their function if the even still exist - coupled with an aurm item adds up to proto gear at level two actual skills. As long as their are ISK versions it isn't pay to win.

The whole argument of this thread is that a respec would somehow cure some of the problems with the game but in fact it would do just what Crush said. Balancing would be difficult with constantly changing skill sets and weapons that perform better would flocked to and broken items would be shunned.

There should be no more respecs given at all. There is one major reason for this.

No respecs provide balance to the game. When you allow people to continuously respec, you will have everyone flocking to the nearest OP weapon. With no respecs it takes time for people to skill up into those OP weapons which gives CCP more time to balance them before the majority of the population starts using it.

For those of you who decide to skill into future glaringly OP weapons congratulations and enjoy it while it last. They will be nerfed and you should not be entitled to a skill respec.

Thank you for the kind words. I have a question. What are spikes and clusters?

bullshit, respecs are beneficial for everyone.

bullshit, respecs are beneficial for everyone.

Care to elaborate? Or are you just gonna make statements without providing any proof or logic to back them up?

There should be no more respecs given at all. There is one major reason for this.

No respecs provide balance to the game. When you allow people to continuously respec, you will have everyone flocking to the nearest OP weapon. With no respecs it takes time for people to skill up into those OP weapons which gives CCP more time to balance them before the majority of the population starts using it.

For those of you who decide to skill into future glaringly OP weapons congratulations and enjoy it while it last. They will be nerfed and you should not be entitled to a skill respec.

People like this is why the ANTI-respec crowd seem to just have this opinion because they are just bitter because they got killed by caldari logis.

-an actual support-logi that is too tired of his role because of the broken game.

I want a respec and i dont give a **** about your opinion.

If a person is using something they bought with THEIR SP (AKA THEIR TIME) , and then it gets nerfed its not LONGER what they bought , thereby like anything else, they should have their money (in this case SP) Reimbursed.
So what if everyone flocks to the most OP weapon? This makes the problem obvious and helps to get a balance.

I throw down proto healing hives and can rep an entire squad while killing mofos.

Does a logi have to use a rep tool to be effective? I can do this while providing ammo and proto uplinks for the folks not smart enough to stick around my healing hives.

I'm convinced that ANTI-repec people are trolls. People can't be that stupid to not see the need for them to keep the game interesting for people.

I throw down proto healing hives and can rep an entire squad while killing mofos.

Does a logi have to use a rep tool to be effective? I can do this while providing ammo and proto uplinks for the folks not smart enough to stick around my healing hives.

I'm convinced that ANTI-repec people are trolls. People can't be that stupid to not see the need for them to keep the game interesting for people.

I want a respec and i dont give a **** about your opinion.

If a person is using something they bought with THEIR SP (AKA THEIR TIME) , and then it gets nerfed its not LONGER what they bought , thereby like anything else, they should have their money (in this case SP) Reimbursed.
So what if everyone flocks to the most OP weapon? This makes the problem obvious and helps to get a balance.

IF THEY CHANGE SOMETHING, we deserve a respec.

Actually, if we do give respecs I don't see the reason for SP and the skill system at all. The entire point is to work your way into improving or expanding your abilities. Respecs completely bypass and trivialize this once an initial amount of SP is obtained. Also, I get SP from playing, so if I'm playing, or even if I'm not i'm getting a resource that allows me to change up my play and keep things "interesting." Respecs aren't needed for that. The only reason to think they are is if you can't function without protogear and/or full bonuses.

Well said. However I would like to ad that you can function just fine without protogear. Advanced gear is not that far off from protogear and cost considerably less SP to spec into. In most instances, advanced gear is just as good. Especially considering protogear is so expensive.

As far as the complete control respec that seems like a feature few would use ultimately, Especially as total SP counts go up. We would likely all reach the point where what we loose is greater than the SP it takes to try something out. It doesn't require a full 300k for me to try a new gun just to get a feel for it, but even at 95% I'd loose more than that. So while you have provided consequence you've also killed the practicality of the change for all but the most impatient of people.

...

I'm convinced that ANTI-repec people are trolls. People can't be that stupid to not see the need for them to keep the game interesting for people.

I'm not of the impression it's needed either, but if one wants to try something new to keep things interesting and needs the kind of SP only a respec would free up that person must be trying to throw a good amount into it. Getting advanced gear is pretty trivial and easy through normal gameplay outside of going into something which severely minimizes the amount of shared SP, and even then it should only take a couple weeks.

But then maybe that's the source of the issue. Not wanting to wait a week or 2 to get a full set going to try something new. And if it isn't in ones opinion I don't think this games progression system was designed for their liking. I can respect that, insults aside. At the same time I personally like it as is (minus missing features which I consider essential, full set of racial suits/etc, which SHOULD warrant a respec when added).

Whatever. I don't want respecs because I don't want FOTM for me, or anyone else. I understand people like MarkOf22 are worried that their proto caldari logi will be next up on the nerfing block. I understand people are bored, but it'll be in CCP's hands. They will crunch the numbers, and they may cheapen the RPG elements to improve average gamer participation by 1.5 months or so... I really doubt a respec will really save Dust in the long run, only expansions and gameplay improvements can do that. I'm not trying to troll anyone, I just don't want to be tempted to respec into proto tanks the day they are released.

First off calm down. There is no need to be hostile. Read the description of each weapon. That is what you are "purchasing" with those skill points. If CCP balances it so the weapon fits the role in the description, you should not be entitled to a respec. If you go and skill into a weapon just to get easy kills without even looking at what the weapon is designed for, that is your fault.

I'm not sure why CCP decided not to release all the basic racial suits. It makes it a pain in the ass for both players and developers. It's bad for players because they can't skill into what they need to, and its a pain for DEVs because they have to contend with giving out respecs (we all know what a painful process that is). They should release all the basic suits in the 1.2 patch.

You are thinking too small. Im not thinking of respecs in terms of changes to a weapon or a suit but entire builds.

From going from a gallent logi Scrambler with equipment.

To playing a minmatar scout nova knifer


Or a shield tanker or a bomber/aircraft (whenever those come out).

Respecs for hte sake of speccing just one weapon or new suit given the limitation of 2 uses a year and the potential loss of SP would be useless but thats the point isn't it. We want to eliminate the needless speccing or respeccing of single weapons or suits so people dont spec FOTM while still giving the wholesale option of switching up an entire build for the sake of creating a fresh new experience into the game world.

I use Nova knifes and shotguns, so first off dont think im running around in murder taxis and Duvolle ARs...

second, IF i read the description of a weapon, try it out and BUY it with my SP, and THEN the stats/preformance changes, im entitled to my respec.

(3rd, im calmed down, sorry im just foul mouthed)

4rth i agree, if everything was out and would not get changes , ok no more respecs. But every time something changes is like a brand new game, i think its fair that we get a chance to test/ create an optimal character.

Over nerfing can be a serious problem. So I do see your point. I still don't think respecs are the answer. I think instead, we have to find a better way to balance weapons. The current way doesn't seem to be working.

Then fight the temptation and DONT DO IT.

See this is the part the really pisses me off, on the one hand you want to create a restriction to limit how others play the game but on the other you want decisions to matter.

Well noone is preventing you from making the decision to NOT RESPEC. That option is entirely available to you. Is it our responsibility to be your caretaker and keep you free of temptation or is it your responsbility to be smart and not fall into it?

Dude i Fd up my SP so badly i would be willing to spend all my AUR + -+ my Lifetime SP to get a respec....

Thats how bad i would like a respec.....
I wouldnt matter the price, if it makes the game i like playing fun again.

I understand what you mean, I just don't think a second spec of equal level should come with a smaller time investment that the first or should come at a severe price, as in you cannot get back to the same proficiency in the new spec as you had in the old one.

To this point I don't think there is a point to the skill system if SP becomes interchangeable. Especially since part of that system is balancing versatility and specialization. IE the choice between proto Gallente SR Logi or Adv Gallente SR Logi and Adv Minmatar nova knifer. Also, since there wasn't a slow progression, that respec which was supposed to keep the game interesting could now lock you into something you really don't like for quite a while depending on the cooldown implemented.

I can respect that. Like I said before, I don't think there should be respecs, but if we are going to do it, make the respec cost 1/2 the lifetime SP and be done with it.

In all honesty though there is a free and relatively easy way of earning a respec. ALTS.
I have 5 of them all gaining passive and i wont touch them for over a year. After which that will be 5 free builds i can make anyway i choose and start nice and fresh. With ISK transfer coming this next patch and eventually ITEM transfer i have everything I need to set up my new "builds" anyway I want at little cost to me, just simply waiting for enough time to fly by.

So what if it is a new character big deal does it affect me in any negative way other than having less SP?

Nope and thats not a disadvantage as far as im concerned after a certain point SP only makes you more versatile not any stronger so i make no difference to me if I spec into a character with less SP as long as it has that threshold im good to go.

So again in the end the only people who are negatively impacted by the policy are newer players and players who don't want to maintain a series of alts on multiple PSN accounts.