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CuuCH Crusher
Commando Perkone Caldari State
26
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Posted - 2013.06.26 06:45:00 -
[61] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:dday3six wrote:I've asked before and never got an answer other then it would be the same as any other game, hobby or what have with an for of meta-game, but why is Flavor of the Month chasing so bad in the first place? People think it will kill diversity, but in a halfway balanced environment, it would only encourage diversity. More importantly, it would encourage people to have FUN.
You know damn well it wouldn't encourage diversity. Every FPS game suffers from FOTM chasers and dust is no exception. If CCP does let the people have multiple respecs, it will lead to everyone using the same weapon. Live with your decisions. And for those who live by the OP weapons they will die by the nerf. |
dday3six
Intrepidus XI Omega Commission
30
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Posted - 2013.06.26 06:54:00 -
[62] - Quote
CuuCH Crusher wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:dday3six wrote:I've asked before and never got an answer other then it would be the same as any other game, hobby or what have with an for of meta-game, but why is Flavor of the Month chasing so bad in the first place? People think it will kill diversity, but in a halfway balanced environment, it would only encourage diversity. More importantly, it would encourage people to have FUN. You know damn well it wouldn't encourage diversity. Every FPS game suffers from FOTM chasers and dust is no exception. If CCP does let the people have multiple respecs, it will lead to everyone using the same weapon. Live with your decisions. And for those who live by the OP weapons they will die by the nerf.
Cause a 1/3 of the meta being made up of vanilla AR's is so incredibly diverse. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
473
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 09:26:00 -
[63] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:If CCP knew how to balance their game then respecs would only serve to freshen things up and keep people interested far longer.
It's ok though. Outdated design philosophies for a separate genre of game will totally make this game stand out.
Yeah because respecing is very original and creates diversity. |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
171
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Posted - 2013.06.26 09:39:00 -
[64] - Quote
There should be no further respecs; however we should get back SP from skills that are removed.
And that will happen, because the current skill tree is just... bad.
Every new weapon added to this game is another 7 million SP to bloat the weaponry tree and another 5-6 skills. Another 30 weapons and we'll have passed 300 million SP. In the weaponry tree alone. That's ridiculous. Even more so when 4 skills for every weapon do the exact same damn thing as for the next.
But that's for another thread another day.
No more respecs. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4088
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Posted - 2013.06.26 10:12:00 -
[65] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:If CCP knew how to balance their game then respecs would only serve to freshen things up and keep people interested far longer.
It's ok though. Outdated design philosophies for a separate genre of game will totally make this game stand out. Yeah because respecing is very original and creates diversity. It does, by keeping people interested in a boring game by letting them actually do other things.
Since there's still no form of tutorials or new player help, we'll be seeing PLENTY of wonky builds, even if everyone got a free respec twice a day
Really this is just spreadsheet warriors afraid that they'll loose their only advantage on the field if players are allowed to learn from their mistakes |
Godin Thekiller
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
187
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Posted - 2013.06.26 10:18:00 -
[66] - Quote
How about for racial Heavy's, Lights, and vehicle frames? They get ****** over? **** that; they should only people to get a respec, and that's only for the frame ( Say, I skilled Winmatar light frame, and I wanted Amarr, I would lose all of the light and scout skill levels, then transfer them over). |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
474
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Posted - 2013.06.26 10:18:00 -
[67] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:If CCP knew how to balance their game then respecs would only serve to freshen things up and keep people interested far longer.
It's ok though. Outdated design philosophies for a separate genre of game will totally make this game stand out. Yeah because respecing is very original and creates diversity. It does, by keeping people interested in a boring game by letting them actually do other things. Since there's still no form of tutorials or new player help, we'll be seeing PLENTY of wonky builds, even if everyone got a free respec twice a day Really this is just spreadsheet warriors afraid that they'll loose their only advantage on the field if players are allowed to learn from their mistakes
I disagree, if we were allowed to respec more often then everyone would flock to the new op weapon or suit. How would allowing or not allowing respecs cause "spreadsheet warriors" to be at a disadvantaged or allow them to have an advantage? Live with the choices, it is not that hard of a game. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
474
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Posted - 2013.06.26 10:23:00 -
[68] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:How about for racial Heavy's, Lights, and vehicle frames? They get ****** over? **** that; they should only people to get a respec, and that's only for the frame ( Say, I skilled Winmatar light frame, and I wanted Amarr, I would lose all of the light and scout skill levels, then transfer them over). My .02 ISK Peace, Godin
I agree with role specific repecs if the core suits, weapons and vehicles are not there or if the skill was mislabeled or misleading. Then only core missing gear and role specific SP should be returned, not full respecs. If you got screwed because the gear wasn't there or the skill didn't do what it said then you would have a valid reason but because you were careless and didn't read isn't a good reason. |
RKKR
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
124
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Posted - 2013.06.26 10:40:00 -
[69] - Quote
CuuCH Crusher wrote:There should be no more respecs given at all. There is one major reason for this.
No respecs provide balance to the game. When you allow people to continuously respec, you will have everyone flocking to the nearest OP weapon. With no respecs it takes time for people to skill up into those OP weapons which gives CCP more time to balance them before the majority of the population starts using it.
For those of you who decide to skill into future glaringly OP weapons congratulations and enjoy it while it last. They will be nerfed and you should not be entitled to a skill respec.
Or maybe CCP has to fully test the game first to balance everything. How does one test all items? Let the players respec as much as they want so they can test everything.
Once everything is balanced and the game is ready for its REAL release you can stop giving respecs (but maybe by that time you will realise that respecing doesn't harm the game).
But nice try to push your anti-respec-agenda.
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Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
793
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Posted - 2013.06.26 10:46:00 -
[70] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote: Everyone who has money, yes.
News flash... games are made to earn money... deet dit deet da deet dit.
Seriously though, if you simply want another currency available, such as SP instead of Isk, it's the same thing. The idea of AUR as a payment method is to, once gain, allow the company to make money by offering convenience to those who have jobs and have money but limited time.
These people aren't going to get ahead of you, they won't harm the game, we need a player base of people that aren't spreadsheet driven. They'll need to try new things as new content, PvE, or weapons, or fits comes out. I get that we like to hold people to their choices -- but we also need the game the stick around.
Note, you also didn't describe how people get an advantage via a respec... you just bitched at me, again. |
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Stevez WingYip
Lumodynamics Power Control Corp Panda Cave
54
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Posted - 2013.06.26 10:50:00 -
[71] - Quote
CuuCH Crusher wrote:There should be no more respecs given at all. There is one major reason for this.
No respecs provide balance to the game. When you allow people to continuously respec, you will have everyone flocking to the nearest OP weapon. With no respecs it takes time for people to skill up into those OP weapons which gives CCP more time to balance them before the majority of the population starts using it.
For those of you who decide to skill into future glaringly OP weapons congratulations and enjoy it while it last. They will be nerfed and you should not be entitled to a skill respec.
Are you stupid? This may be okay for you, but the real fact remains that this game is NO WHERE near complete. There needs to be AT LEAST one more due to the fact that people are forced to spec into things that do now want to right now.
For example, I plan on maxing the Amarr Heavy laser when it comes out, but to remain competitive, I have to max hmg right now just so I can keep using my heavy at a decent level.
This may be okay if YOU don't need a respec but there are others that get screwed over by how bad the system in DUST is right now because this game is clearly not launch ready.
I love this game and I want it to succeed but not giving people a respec will just turn more people that are stuck down a different path away. |
Stevez WingYip
Lumodynamics Power Control Corp Panda Cave
54
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Posted - 2013.06.26 10:51:00 -
[72] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:DUST Fiend wrote: Everyone who has money, yes.
News flash... games are made to earn money... deet dit deet da deet dit. Seriously though, if you simply want another currency available, such as SP instead of Isk, it's the same thing. The idea of AUR as a payment method is to, once gain, allow the company to make money by offering convenience to those who have jobs and have money but limited time. These people aren't going to get ahead of you, they won't harm the game, we need a player base of people that aren't spreadsheet driven. They'll need to try new things as new content, PvE, or weapons, or fits comes out. I get that we like to hold people to their choices -- but we also need the game the stick around. Note, you also didn't describe how people get an advantage via a respec... you just bitched at me, again.
I am that passionate about another one, i'd even be willing to give up about 1m sp to get one more respec lol. I would just hold all my SP until the amarr heavy laser comes out. xD |
meri jin
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
53
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Posted - 2013.06.26 10:51:00 -
[73] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Weather or not people can flock to an OP weapon has no bearing on if the weapon is OP or not. The real issue is the OP weapon itself, and once they are balanced, then your argument is in the garbage. Also people respeccing to skill into OP items are screwing themselves since OP items eventually get nerfed.
Keep in mind that we don't have the full set of racial ARs, dropsuits and specializations yet, so many of us have to specialize into weapons and dropsuits that would not have been our first choice. Specialization is needed to be competitive, yet it is unfair to expect people to specialize when all the options aren't present yet; this makes respecs warranted.
I agree with you here. A freind of mine like to play havy, but not as amarr for example. Still ne must skill this so he can learn how it is to a heavy. Its not like he likes to be in a amarr suit. I feel that this game is extremly unfinished we need the core things, all racial weapons and standart suits. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
475
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 10:55:00 -
[74] - Quote
RKKR wrote:CuuCH Crusher wrote:There should be no more respecs given at all. There is one major reason for this.
No respecs provide balance to the game. When you allow people to continuously respec, you will have everyone flocking to the nearest OP weapon. With no respecs it takes time for people to skill up into those OP weapons which gives CCP more time to balance them before the majority of the population starts using it.
For those of you who decide to skill into future glaringly OP weapons congratulations and enjoy it while it last. They will be nerfed and you should not be entitled to a skill respec. Or maybe CCP has to fully test the game first to balance everything. How does one test all items? Let the players respec as much as they want so they can test everything. Once everything is balanced and the game is ready for its REAL release you can stop giving respecs (but maybe by that time you will realise that respecing doesn't harm the game). But nice try to push your anti-respec-agenda.
The game will never have balance because new gear will always be introduced. Respecs are bad for DUST because it takes away from the persistance that is promoted. I don't want to see a mercs name and have to guess on what they will be doing in this battle because they just introduced a new suit or weapon. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4092
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 11:05:00 -
[75] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Note, you also didn't describe how people get an advantage via a respec... you just bitched at me, again. I wasn't even talking to you, get over yourself. |
RKKR
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
124
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 11:05:00 -
[76] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote: The game will never have balance because new gear will always be introduced. Respecs are bad for DUST because it takes away from the persistance that is promoted. I don't want to see a mercs name and have to guess on what they will be doing in this battle because they just introduced a new suit or weapon.
Didn't this game also promote high risk/high reward? How much risk is bringing all proto gear lately? DUST has been promoted as many things.
You know it was also promoted as a game where you could play what the **** you ever want to equip but in reality that isn't true because you will need a shitload of SP to do that even though the new trailer says you have fought (and have the experience) of thousand battles and such...are you getting the point?
I'm sure as hell that everyone wants to fight a predictable war...maybe you should try a game of tic-tac-toe instead.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4092
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 11:08:00 -
[77] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:The game will never have balance because new gear will always be introduced. Respecs are bad for DUST because it takes away from the persistance that is promoted. I don't want to see a mercs name and have to guess on what they will be doing in this battle because they just introduced a new suit or weapon. That's cute in theory, but there is extremely little persistence or meaning to anything that you do. Locking people into single playstyles for months on end is a surefire way to bore them. |
Knight SoIaire
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
921
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Posted - 2013.06.26 11:14:00 -
[78] - Quote
I dont know about everyone here, but I'm not paying for a respec if CCP someday decides my role needs changing for the worse.
Maybe when we come out of this Beta, I'll pay for respecs, but not while everything is constantly being changed, without warning. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
793
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 11:25:00 -
[79] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Crash Monster wrote:Note, you also didn't describe how people get an advantage via a respec... you just bitched at me, again. I wasn't even talking to you, get over yourself.
If you aren't talking to me perhaps don't reply to my posts? Anyhow, you may want to consider your own advice. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4093
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 11:30:00 -
[80] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Crash Monster wrote:Note, you also didn't describe how people get an advantage via a respec... you just bitched at me, again. I wasn't even talking to you, get over yourself. If you aren't talking to me perhaps don't reply to my posts? Anyhow, you may want to consider your own advice. The post that you quoted me from was not directed at you.
L2read? |
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A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
221
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Posted - 2013.06.26 11:37:00 -
[81] - Quote
The current situation as a I see it:
1. Basic racial variants of existing gear has not been introduced. We are not talking about all things like jets etc just the basic stuff. 2. Wild swings in balance across classes as well as individual systems. This isn't living with OUR decisions this is suffering through the nerf/buff hammers of CCP. 3. A small and reducing player base. Some of this is a result of it being summer but figures have been dropping for the last month and starting to approach the numbers we had 3 months ago. 4. 700-1000 new characters are created everyday but numbers remain unchanged. Are all of these alts and if not what is happening with these new players?
I do not believe Respecs are the answer to making this game more interesting, fun or retaining new players but I do believe it will form an important part of the solution.
To the question of paying Aurum for Respecs I have no problem with it so long as it not the only way of getting a Respec.
My solution would be a combination of the following:
1. The gradual Respec favoured by Dust Fiend. This gives players a completly free option that costs nothing apart from time. 2. Aurum solution. The price of a complete Respec costs the equivalent of a 7 day Active and a 7 day Passive booster. Minimum cool down period is 1 month. 3. SP solution. The price of a complete Respec is 358400 SP, 1 week of unboosted play if you cap. Minimum cool down period is 1 month. 4. New players are granted 2 free Respec tokens but can not use them until they have left the Academy and a warning pops up saying that these 2 token are all you will ever receive and once used you can only Respec via options 1-3.
Now for a Isk variant. 5. This will only exist when Eve and Dusts economies are integrated. In eve we manufacture a mercenary neural remapping nannite injection, 1 use, that wipes a Mercs brain and frees up their SP. this is then sold on the open market.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4093
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 11:43:00 -
[82] - Quote
I'd be ok with an AUR respec so long as there were other methods of getting it, such as spending SP; I can concede to that. |
Spectral Clone
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
43
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Posted - 2013.06.26 11:47:00 -
[83] - Quote
It just hit me: Accumulate SP to respec a specific skill =========== Accumulating SP to spec into another skill.
I-Śm starting to change my opinion on respecs to the issue of skill training being too slow for a FPS-type game. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
442
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 12:08:00 -
[84] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:If CCP knew how to balance their game then respecs would only serve to freshen things up and keep people interested far longer.
It's ok though. Outdated design philosophies for a separate genre of game will totally make this game stand out. I heart you
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CuuCH Crusher
Commando Perkone Caldari State
34
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Posted - 2013.06.26 14:52:00 -
[85] - Quote
It seems the vast majority of the opposition are basing their argument on CCP being able to balance Dust correctly. Have they been able to balance Dust so far? |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4106
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 14:55:00 -
[86] - Quote
CuuCH Crusher wrote:It seems the vast majority of the opposition are basing their argument on CCP being able to balance Dust correctly. Have they been able to balance Dust so far? Not sure about everyone else, but I'm saying that periodic partial respec's would be fine if CCP knew how to balance their game.
So no. I don't think they have. |
RKKR
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
125
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 15:01:00 -
[87] - Quote
CuuCH Crusher wrote:It seems the vast majority of the opposition are basing their argument on CCP being able to balance Dust correctly. Have they been able to balance Dust so far?
They have not been able to since they decided to do a complete different game with the release of uprising without actually testing stuff out. I'm glad to test things out but can't due to limited SP.
So the no-respec makes balancing stuff even harder and yes thanks for ignoring my previous post .
And isn't your 'hahaha-your-OP-stuff-is-going-to-be-nerfed' part of a balance? So I'm not sure what you are saying here. |
Jason Punk
DUST University Ivy League
135
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 15:01:00 -
[88] - Quote
[Personal Quote; From another post]
Actually I'm down with respecs...but they need to be limited to a certain amount of skill points and free (agree completely on that).
I would like it to either be measured in time playing rewards (every 4 months = 0.5 to 1 million SP Liquidity?) or something given for every 2 million SP earned (every 2 million unlocks an optional respec on 20-30% of those points)
I believe this feature would prove desirable for people as life here progresses and more skills/equipment avails itself. Not much different than Attributes shifts in Eve |
Tallen Ellecon
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
142
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:05:00 -
[89] - Quote
I like: All players get 2 free repecs upon leaving the Academy An Aurum respec worth 30,000 Aurum, just to keep it from being abused All players get one free respec per year (since player creation) up to 1 respec. So if you already have 1 or 2 you will get none. I think all respecs should have a time limit until reuse of at least 3 months, in order to prevent FOTM choosing. |
Revelations 514
Red Star. EoN.
73
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 17:02:00 -
[90] - Quote
Im down with no respecs.
To everyone saying that "if CCP would just balance everything it would be fine" you are correct. However, no MMO in history, especially one that consistently adds new content, is ever done balancing. Its a constantly evolving process. So respecs need to be very hard to come by. |
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