DUST Search - Absolutely No More Respecs.

Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote:

You people have no imagination whatsoever.

Fact is the game is full of content that most people don't spec into because it isnt functional and they don't want to be "stuck" with it.

The notion that we should limit respecs to force people into making decisions or to prevent FOTM respecs is ludicrous and only exists because the game developers create a weapon or item that is out of balance with the rest. To fault the players for flocking to it put blame squarely on the wrong people.

Now that said unlimited respeccing would be problematic and really wasteful. For those players that think the universe should be about making your descision matter I would counter by saying its as simple as changing neural implants that result in a mercs ability to respec and thus follow lore if its really that important to you.

From a financial standpoint a Respec should cost money and to me is a better way to get money from dust players without nickel and dimeing them over SP.

Now it may be impossible to limit individual respecs to only 2x/year but if possible they should aim to do so in addition to how they allow respec to occur. Which should be in the form of an augmentation.

This augmentation should be avaiable for ISK and AUR. But the pricing should be somewhere in the plex range if not higher. The idea here being it isn't fully P2W if the item is avaialble for ISK and AUR and if the cost is high enough it wont be used constantly but sparingly. If CCP can enforce 2 use policy every 12 months or something then CCP has created their own version of DLC. By purchasing these augmentations CCP is giving players the opportunity to access new content in the form a different specialty 2x/year.

It may be wise to even allow 1x/year Free respecs to really keep the game fresh for players and allow them to experience the game in a different way.

The benefits of this far outweighs the negatives of FOTM speccing, more to the point FOTM speccing only becomes a problem if the Devs make FOTM stuff. Add in the limitations of respecs should CCP enforce such a mechanic the risk of FOTM speccing become hazardous to anyone who goes that route if CCP is quick on balancing.

It took a month to make changes to the TAC. An optional respect would at best mean they are stuck with their decisions for the rest of the year if they use their one freebie right after or if they purchase they only have 1 additional paid respec.


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Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 425	Posted - 2013.06.26 20:53:00 - [1] - Quote You people have no imagination whatsoever. Fact is the game is full of content that most people don't spec into because it isnt functional and they don't want to be "stuck" with it. The notion that we should limit respecs to force people into making decisions or to prevent FOTM respecs is ludicrous and only exists because the game developers create a weapon or item that is out of balance with the rest. To fault the players for flocking to it put blame squarely on the wrong people. Now that said unlimited respeccing would be problematic and really wasteful. For those players that think the universe should be about making your descision matter I would counter by saying its as simple as changing neural implants that result in a mercs ability to respec and thus follow lore if its really that important to you. From a financial standpoint a Respec should cost money and to me is a better way to get money from dust players without nickel and dimeing them over SP. Now it may be impossible to limit individual respecs to only 2x/year but if possible they should aim to do so in addition to how they allow respec to occur. Which should be in the form of an augmentation. This augmentation should be avaiable for ISK and AUR. But the pricing should be somewhere in the plex range if not higher. The idea here being it isn't fully P2W if the item is avaialble for ISK and AUR and if the cost is high enough it wont be used constantly but sparingly. If CCP can enforce 2 use policy every 12 months or something then CCP has created their own version of DLC. By purchasing these augmentations CCP is giving players the opportunity to access new content in the form a different specialty 2x/year. It may be wise to even allow 1x/year Free respecs to really keep the game fresh for players and allow them to experience the game in a different way. The benefits of this far outweighs the negatives of FOTM speccing, more to the point FOTM speccing only becomes a problem if the Devs make FOTM stuff. Add in the limitations of respecs should CCP enforce such a mechanic the risk of FOTM speccing become hazardous to anyone who goes that route if CCP is quick on balancing. It took a month to make changes to the TAC. An optional respect would at best mean they are stuck with their decisions for the rest of the year if they use their one freebie right after or if they purchase they only have 1 additional paid respec.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 426	Posted - 2013.06.27 14:33:00 - [2] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: You people have no imagination whatsoever. Fact is the game is full of content that most people don't spec into because it isnt functional and they don't want to be "stuck" with it. The notion that we should limit respecs to force people into making decisions or to prevent FOTM respecs is ludicrous and only exists because the game developers create a weapon or item that is out of balance with the rest. To fault the players for flocking to it put blame squarely on the wrong people. Now that said unlimited respeccing would be problematic and really wasteful. For those players that think the universe should be about making your descision matter I would counter by saying its as simple as changing neural implants that result in a mercs ability to respec and thus follow lore if its really that important to you. From a financial standpoint a Respec should cost money and to me is a better way to get money from dust players without nickel and dimeing them over SP. Now it may be impossible to limit individual respecs to only 2x/year but if possible they should aim to do so in addition to how they allow respec to occur. Which should be in the form of an augmentation. This augmentation should be avaiable for ISK and AUR. But the pricing should be somewhere in the plex range if not higher. The idea here being it isn't fully P2W if the item is avaialble for ISK and AUR and if the cost is high enough it wont be used constantly but sparingly. If CCP can enforce 2 use policy every 12 months or something then CCP has created their own version of DLC. By purchasing these augmentations CCP is giving players the opportunity to access new content in the form a different specialty 2x/year. It may be wise to even allow 1x/year Free respecs to really keep the game fresh for players and allow them to experience the game in a different way. The benefits of this far outweighs the negatives of FOTM speccing, more to the point FOTM speccing only becomes a problem if the Devs make FOTM stuff. Add in the limitations of respecs should CCP enforce such a mechanic the risk of FOTM speccing become hazardous to anyone who goes that route if CCP is quick on balancing. It took a month to make changes to the TAC. An optional respect would at best mean they are stuck with their decisions for the rest of the year if they use their one freebie right after or if they purchase they only have 1 additional paid respec.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 426	Posted - 2013.06.27 14:46:00 - [3] - Quote CuuCH Crusher wrote: Luk Manag wrote: If CCP has to give ReSpecs to keep the casuals interested, they might as well give up on all character development. You might keep players who are bored for a little bit longer, but it wouldn't be worth it (Dust 514 fails on pure shooter merits). They will still get bored. If they (the gamer) believe in the future of Dust 514, you (CCP) can demand their patience and dedication to character development. You can expect turnover, but I think that will result in a steadily growing population of dedicated people who can see themselves playing Dust 514 for 5 or 10 years. Why would you bother trying to eek a couple more months out of some casual gamer who is interested in a flavor of the month? This month it's LLAV, next month it will be BF4 or PS2, and I say, "let them go." Well said. Casuals come and go. It's the hardcore gamers that stay. CCP should try to appeal to the hardcore gamers and make the gameplay so great that it converts casuals into hardcore. They should focus on gameplay. Not holding peoples hand. I think you and I have different definitions of hardcore gamers. You are probably thinking of Hardcore RPGers who are so invested into their characters it borders on an emotional codependence. Hardcore shooters want to experience great shooting and want to try new things. Its about content consumption. Allowing respecs 1 free and 1 paid per year creates a hybrid model of what CCP does in EVE while allowing for essentially a paid DLC model to enter into the game. By allowing for up to 2 respecs a year you are keeping hardcore shooter fans interested with the ability to experience new content without having free reign and a limitless number of repecs. Ive already given a lore perspective on how this may be possible so if hardcore RPGing is your thing well ive already provided the needed rationales from a lore perspective that would permit it.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 428	Posted - 2013.06.27 15:43:00 - [4] - Quote CuuCH Crusher wrote: Who said you cannot try new things? It is not like you are stuck with only a certain amount of SP. You can always earn more whether that be passively or actively. My point is that you must choose what "new things" you want to try. This requires making good decisions. This makes Dust different from other shooters. Why are people so eager to change it into a COD clone? It takes many months to try new things, IE switching from a heavy to say a dropship pilot or tanker or just a new suit weapon combination. Yes over time respecs will be less useful to the veteran population but not for years down the road and that can still be extended as more content is introduced. Of which CCP says there will be plenty of. Your assertion that allowing a limited respec 1 FREE, 1 Paid would in anyway turn this game into a COD clone. You only get 2 chances a year and thats ONLY if you PAY. Otherwise once per year doesn't do anything to break the game. It is not CCPs job to prevent players from speccing into FOTM gear, its their job to ensure none exist. Moreover given the rate at which content looks to be added a respec into a FOTM would easily trap a person in for a long time as they would have to use their LIMITED number of respecs. My solution covers all angles, Lore Content generation Balance Keeping the game Fresh Monetary acquisition for CCP.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 430	Posted - 2013.06.27 21:00:00 - [5] - Quote CuuCH Crusher wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: CuuCH Crusher wrote: Who said you cannot try new things? It is not like you are stuck with only a certain amount of SP. You can always earn more whether that be passively or actively. My point is that you must choose what "new things" you want to try. This requires making good decisions. This makes Dust different from other shooters. Why are people so eager to change it into a COD clone? It takes many months to try new things, IE switching from a heavy to say a dropship pilot or tanker or just a new suit weapon combination. Yes over time respecs will be less useful to the veteran population but not for years down the road and that can still be extended as more content is introduced. Of which CCP says there will be plenty of. Your assertion that allowing a limited respec 1 FREE, 1 Paid would in anyway turn this game into a COD clone. You only get 2 chances a year and thats ONLY if you PAY. Otherwise once per year doesn't do anything to break the game. It is not CCPs job to prevent players from speccing into FOTM gear, its their job to ensure none exist. Moreover given the rate at which content looks to be added a respec into a FOTM would easily trap a person in for a long time as they would have to use their LIMITED number of respecs. My solution covers all angles, Lore Content generation Balance Keeping the game Fresh Monetary acquisition for CCP. Why should CCP change core game mechanics for a small portion of the population. The silent majority is fine with how the system works now. If not you wouldn't see the same people playing day in and day out. Silent majority eh? Try the rabble that is left after the REAL MAJORITY already left. So yea keep burying your head in the sand that you few are enough to allow this game to continue on and grow and become everything its supposed to be. And sorry SP system thats can't be re-designated isn't a core mechanic its a design feature and one that doesn't even exist in eve to this extent. You just don't like Veteran players having the opportunity to learn in hindsight and new players to correct initial mistakes before they fully understood the game. Yea no sorry but game needs to stay fresh and one of the easiest ways CCP can do that until they add in more and more content is the opportunity for players to experience that content through LIMITED RESPECING. Also in your outright dismissal I notice how you haven't yet rebuffed any of what i said with a logical counterpoint. On the other hand CCP has changed core game mechanical features constantly in an effort to "improve" the game and gameplay.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 430	Posted - 2013.06.27 21:09:00 - [6] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: All weapons and suits AR cheap enough at entry level to get a feel for them. The problem is that these respecers want proto gear the day it comes out instead of having a goal to work towards. Try lower tier and if you like it then upgrade. Respecs are not the same as remaps in EVE. Selling respecs is P2W. If you want to try new gear then save SP. Balance cannot happen if the balance is based off of a merc running gear with perfect skills becase they got a respec. Selling Respecs aren't P2W if they are sold in the manner that PLEXs are and/or as an augmentation. Then they can either be A) Made available on the NPC market for ISK B) Made avaiable on the Player market for ISK, AUR, Trade. And in the end if everyone is given 1 FREE Respec and have the opportunity to purchase 1 PAID respec a year for a total of 2 then you are paying for one more bite at the apple and if trades and all the like are available but still limited to a single use then everyone is getting the same number of chances and not everyone is being forced to pay if they get it in the market for ISK. I am open to the idea that if the market comes ahead of this augmentation then perhaps not even allowing the 1 Freebie and require all respecs to be paid with AURum or acquired through player market. The only question becomes is if limit is 2x year is there a way for a person to purchase more than 2 but still for the game code to recognize they have already hit max limit and cant use them only trade them. If not then respecs become a rationed commodity in which in theory there are only 2x X number players possible out there. Thus those who choose not to purchase with AUR may find these items skyrocket in terms of ISK value depending on the Demand given there will only ever be a fixed supply within a year. This would create a rather nice market commoditiy with a great tie in for market players who could have fun with just this augmentation alone and it would be a pretty nice revenue generator for CCP if they priced it b/w 9.99 and 19.99
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 430	Posted - 2013.06.27 21:20:00 - [7] - Quote CuuCH Crusher wrote: My bad what page is your post on? Tell me and I'll get back with you. I'm always willing to debate. Ill requote it for you. Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: You people have no imagination whatsoever. Fact is the game is full of content that most people don't spec into because it isnt functional and they don't want to be "stuck" with it. The notion that we should limit respecs to force people into making decisions or to prevent FOTM respecs is ludicrous and only exists because the game developers create a weapon or item that is out of balance with the rest. To fault the players for flocking to it put blame squarely on the wrong people. Now that said unlimited respeccing would be problematic and really wasteful. For those players that think the universe should be about making your descision matter I would counter by saying its as simple as changing neural implants that result in a mercs ability to respec and thus follow lore if its really that important to you. From a financial standpoint a Respec should cost money and to me is a better way to get money from dust players without nickel and dimeing them over SP. Now it may be impossible to limit individual respecs to only 2x/year but if possible they should aim to do so in addition to how they allow respec to occur. Which should be in the form of an augmentation. This augmentation should be avaiable for ISK and AUR. But the pricing should be somewhere in the plex range if not higher. The idea here being it isn't fully P2W if the item is avaialble for ISK and AUR and if the cost is high enough it wont be used constantly but sparingly. If CCP can enforce 2 use policy every 12 months or something then CCP has created their own version of DLC. By purchasing these augmentations CCP is giving players the opportunity to access new content in the form a different specialty 2x/year. It may be wise to even allow 1x/year Free respecs to really keep the game fresh for players and allow them to experience the game in a different way. The benefits of this far outweighs the negatives of FOTM speccing, more to the point FOTM speccing only becomes a problem if the Devs make FOTM stuff. Add in the limitations of respecs should CCP enforce such a mechanic the risk of FOTM speccing become hazardous to anyone who goes that route if CCP is quick on balancing. It took a month to make changes to the TAC. An optional respect would at best mean they are stuck with their decisions for the rest of the year if they use their one freebie right after or if they purchase they only have 1 additional paid respec. [/quote]
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 430	Posted - 2013.06.27 21:30:00 - [8] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Great idea and I think it would work and generation income. However, I am trying to stay in the spirit of the game by sticking with choices mean something. Being able to change my fundamental play style I ruin the idea of persistence. The skill system is sparse and underwhelming but usable. We have something unique and we should keep it because it isn't the worst thing ever. Okay i get wanting to stick to something where there are consequences for decisions. But there are consequences to everything in this game in the form of loss and gain. I was flirting with the idea of respeccing being driven lore as a method of changing neural implants and thus allowing for retraining. Now perhaps this is a place we can extend consequences further. If a person were to changes specs with 100% efficiency then that is what the current respeccing would be. What if instead the "nueral implants" that allowed for respeccing were done in clusters so if you chose a cluster of skills (pre-spent SP) it was 100% efficient but perhaps not 100% ideal for the way a player wanted to play that particular suit etc. So the SP was distributed by a premade system. Now if you wanted the freedom to choose simply make the respec <100% efficient. Perhaps you only get a refund of 80-95% of your SP or perhaps its a sliding scale so the more SP you have the less you are going to get in a respec. So if you are at 100M SP say instead of 80-95% of your SP you only get 75% SP. Now there is a real consequence to respeccing your character, it follows a rationale lore to drive it(changing neural implants has a loss of efficieny in the transfer of "skils) and it really gives pause to people who simply just want to try new things vs people who would look to use respecs for speccing into FOTM. The numbers are simply hypotheticals, at 100M SP i dont imagine anyone ever wanting to opt for a respec because by that point you have enough SP to spec 1/3 of the SP tree. Which is another reason why respecs don't worry me long term because even when new content is generated there is going to come a point where veterans will simply have a reserve pool of 10M+ SP unspent simply because they aren't going to spend all of their 100M SP simply becuase they just dont want to spec into anything else. Respecs really are only a short term issue for newer player and players under 50M SP. By 50M SP i dont see too many players who will care about stuff they aren't playing with in the SP tree because chances are the things they wanted most of out of the SP tree they now have. So why not create a way for newer players to learn and for CCP and the veteran players to capitalize on it through AUR and the market.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 431	Posted - 2013.06.28 01:39:00 - [9] - Quote Promethius Franklin wrote: As far as the complete control respec that seems like a feature few would use ultimately, Especially as total SP counts go up. We would likely all reach the point where what we loose is greater than the SP it takes to try something out. It doesn't require a full 300k for me to try a new gun just to get a feel for it, but even at 95% I'd loose more than that. So while you have provided consequence you've also killed the practicality of the change for all but the most impatient of people. You are thinking too small. Im not thinking of respecs in terms of changes to a weapon or a suit but entire builds. From going from a gallent logi Scrambler with equipment. To playing a minmatar scout nova knifer Or a shield tanker or a bomber/aircraft (whenever those come out). Respecs for hte sake of speccing just one weapon or new suit given the limitation of 2 uses a year and the potential loss of SP would be useless but thats the point isn't it. We want to eliminate the needless speccing or respeccing of single weapons or suits so people dont spec FOTM while still giving the wholesale option of switching up an entire build for the sake of creating a fresh new experience into the game world.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 431	Posted - 2013.06.28 01:48:00 - [10] - Quote Luk Manag wrote: Whatever. I don't want respecs because I don't want FOTM for me, or anyone else. I understand people like MarkOf22 are worried that their proto caldari logi will be next up on the nerfing block. I understand people are bored, but it'll be in CCP's hands. They will crunch the numbers, and they may cheapen the RPG elements to improve average gamer participation by 1.5 months or so... I really doubt a respec will really save Dust in the long run, only expansions and gameplay improvements can do that. I'm not trying to troll anyone, I just don't want to be tempted to respec into proto tanks the day they are released. Then fight the temptation and DONT DO IT. See this is the part the really pisses me off, on the one hand you want to create a restriction to limit how others play the game but on the other you want decisions to matter. Well noone is preventing you from making the decision to NOT RESPEC. That option is entirely available to you. Is it our responsibility to be your caretaker and keep you free of temptation or is it your responsbility to be smart and not fall into it?

Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 431	Posted - 2013.06.28 02:08:00 - [11] - Quote Promethius Franklin wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Promethius Franklin wrote: As far as the complete control respec that seems like a feature few would use ultimately, Especially as total SP counts go up. We would likely all reach the point where what we loose is greater than the SP it takes to try something out. It doesn't require a full 300k for me to try a new gun just to get a feel for it, but even at 95% I'd loose more than that. So while you have provided consequence you've also killed the practicality of the change for all but the most impatient of people. You are thinking too small. Im not thinking of respecs in terms of changes to a weapon or a suit but entire builds. From going from a gallent logi Scrambler with equipment. To playing a minmatar scout nova knifer Or a shield tanker or a bomber/aircraft (whenever those come out). Respecs for hte sake of speccing just one weapon or new suit given the limitation of 2 uses a year and the potential loss of SP would be useless but thats the point isn't it. We want to eliminate the needless speccing or respeccing of single weapons or suits so people dont spec FOTM while still giving the wholesale option of switching up an entire build for the sake of creating a fresh new experience into the game world. I understand what you mean, I just don't think a second spec of equal level should come with a smaller time investment that the first or should come at a severe price, as in you cannot get back to the same proficiency in the new spec as you had in the old one. To this point I don't think there is a point to the skill system if SP becomes interchangeable. Especially since part of that system is balancing versatility and specialization. IE the choice between proto Gallente SR Logi or Adv Gallente SR Logi and Adv Minmatar nova knifer. Also, since there wasn't a slow progression, that respec which was supposed to keep the game interesting could now lock you into something you really don't like for quite a while depending on the cooldown implemented. Well thats the consequence of a respec, don't do it unless you are sure you want to go there, its a decision that a player has to make. Do they stick with what they know or do they respec and try something new. In all honesty though there is a free and relatively easy way of earning a respec. ALTS. I have 5 of them all gaining passive and i wont touch them for over a year. After which that will be 5 free builds i can make anyway i choose and start nice and fresh. With ISK transfer coming this next patch and eventually ITEM transfer i have everything I need to set up my new "builds" anyway I want at little cost to me, just simply waiting for enough time to fly by. So what if it is a new character big deal does it affect me in any negative way other than having less SP? Nope and thats not a disadvantage as far as im concerned after a certain point SP only makes you more versatile not any stronger so i make no difference to me if I spec into a character with less SP as long as it has that threshold im good to go. So again in the end the only people who are negatively impacted by the policy are newer players and players who don't want to maintain a series of alts on multiple PSN accounts.