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A Possible Solution to Logistics used as Assaults.

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Jastad Eliters D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 31	Posted - 2013.06.19 02:17:00 - [181] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: You think I'm RPing here? No, I just stick with the race I picked. Once I have explored it completely, then I'll go after the others I do the same thing, but i'm an Amarr loyal and i like GDR, it bother me to death dont have enough pg for use Only Amarr weap.
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 279	Posted - 2013.06.19 02:41:00 - [182] - Quote To solve the Caldari Logi issue simply get this to happen: *the Caldari Logi's only handheld weapon is a Sidearm. A fit with this can still be effective against infantry to some extent. Don't tell it's bad, I ran Minmatar logi (look at that fat hitbox) before Uprising with only an SMG and could still beat strong players. Also, read the description of the Caldari logi to see why Sidearm only (with all the preposterous health) is actually acceptable.
cy6 Raging Pack of Homos 55	Posted - 2013.06.19 03:16:00 - [183] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: To solve the Caldari Logi issue simply get this to happen: *the Caldari Logi's only handheld weapon is a Sidearm. A fit with this can still be effective against infantry to some extent. Don't tell it's bad, I ran Minmatar logi (look at that fat hitbox) before Uprising with only an SMG and could still beat strong players. Also, read the description of the Caldari logi to see why Sidearm only (with all the preposterous health) is actually acceptable. why not just remove racial bonuses?
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1947	Posted - 2013.06.19 03:23:00 - [184] - Quote We're probably going to have to wait and see how EWAR is going to work...
Dustin Peril Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2013.06.19 04:13:00 - [185] - Quote Be your own Judge. What game looks like more fun to you? Dust.........Or this......... Planetside 2 Coming to PS4 this year Insane Infantry Push Amazing Night Battle Night to Day Canyon Battle Intense Field Battle Desert Infantry Line Huge Desert Tank Battle 100 Tank Convoy 150 man Air Raid 65/0 Kill streak in the air NC Montage Factions Explained
RKKR The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 107	Posted - 2013.06.19 09:17:00 - [186] - Quote We're probably going to have to wait on patch 5.1.4
Jastad Eliters D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 31	Posted - 2013.06.19 10:47:00 - [187] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: To solve the Caldari Logi issue simply get this to happen: *the Caldari Logi's only handheld weapon is a Sidearm. A fit with this can still be effective against infantry to some extent. Don't tell it's bad, I ran Minmatar logi (look at that fat hitbox) before Uprising with only an SMG and could still beat strong players. Also, read the description of the Caldari logi to see why Sidearm only (with all the preposterous health) is actually acceptable. Why not simply Switch Cal.Logi and Cal.ASS Lower it a bit so Cal.ASS dont get too much. We all concorde that Cal.logi need to be look at. But instead of the nerf hammer why dont we use the Nerf scalpel? Alldin you are a Very good player with a very good team. So your team can focus on kill and, most important, DO KILL. Sometimes you squad with people with less skill than you, and you have to help them doing dmg. Before Uprising we had lower HP and, most important, SS and SSpro. and weap had a litte more range. SS and SSpro made weapon for CQC only to short-Medium Engage. with a smart movement it was possibile to kill opponents. Right now, a side arm only weap isn't viable. Dont get me wrong, i hate the ARcodBOYS who love to easy win and dirt the real LOGIBRO, But the idea on this thread are based on PUBS.
Jastad Eliters D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 31	Posted - 2013.06.19 10:53:00 - [188] - Quote That's a dangerous line to walk. Because if we follow that line of thinking, the next step is remove the equip slot from other classes and half clip of every ammo. Because, you know, Logi are for support role. Than we all see ARCODboys change in MELEECODBOYS
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 139	Posted - 2013.06.19 12:44:00 - [189] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: To solve the Caldari Logi issue simply get this to happen: *the Caldari Logi's only handheld weapon is a Sidearm. A fit with this can still be effective against infantry to some extent. Don't tell it's bad, I ran Minmatar logi (look at that fat hitbox) before Uprising with only an SMG and could still beat strong players. Also, read the description of the Caldari logi to see why Sidearm only (with all the preposterous health) is actually acceptable. Why not with only a plasma cannon or MD? Comeon only one weapon is bad enough you seem to think that my million SP investment into light weapons should be taken away just because Tac ARs are still killing people.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 405	Posted - 2013.06.19 12:48:00 - [190] - Quote I use it with a MD that is ****** up, so maybe that's why I don't think it's OP.

Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 139	Posted - 2013.06.19 12:49:00 - [191] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Jastad wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: @Draco Cerberus No, actually, I need to prove nothing to you. I will not be bullied into thinking otherwise. No it's not being bullied. IT's called READ BEFORE POST. We all made a 9 page thread of answer. if you BOTHER to read, you'll see the all the LOGI are for a rework of the Cal.LOGI, the only e real problem. Because, and that are stat talking ( feel free to search COSGAR Thread or CROSS ATU reply in this thread) LOGI are inferior to their Ass counterpart. and again, stop counting what you do in pubscrub match, thta dosent count in balance terms. Jeez they did with the Heavy and look what we have now.... I still stand by my assertion that Logis can make due with just a Sidearm Slot. Also, so you know, I tried getting Heavys buffed (aside from their movement speed). A slow merc + short range = dead + broke + not supportive at all
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 139	Posted - 2013.06.19 12:52:00 - [192] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I use it with a MD that is **** up, so maybe that's why I don't think it's OP. I was using a MD, Plasma Cannon last night and still in a supporting role able to pull some nice points, higher than the assaults and blow up alot of tanks and LAVS. There is no need to be ****** about this, the restriction of weapons that a Logi can use would have me erase this game and petition to have my assets transferred to my eve character.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 378	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:05:00 - [193] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Jastad wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: @Draco Cerberus No, actually, I need to prove nothing to you. I will not be bullied into thinking otherwise. No it's not being bullied. IT's called READ BEFORE POST. We all made a 9 page thread of answer. if you BOTHER to read, you'll see the all the LOGI are for a rework of the Cal.LOGI, the only e real problem. Because, and that are stat talking ( feel free to search COSGAR Thread or CROSS ATU reply in this thread) LOGI are inferior to their Ass counterpart. and again, stop counting what you do in pubscrub match, thta dosent count in balance terms. Jeez they did with the Heavy and look what we have now.... I still stand by my assertion that Logis can make due with just a Sidearm Slot. Also, so you know, I tried getting Heavys buffed (aside from their movement speed). A slow merc + short range = dead + broke + not supportive at all If that slow merc with the short range weapon stayed in a close quarters area and faceraped any reddot who showed their face, they'd live a lot longer than if they tried to be the "bulky" Assault suit. I believe that anyone who isn't a Heavy who is within a red Heavy's optimal, should be dead before they hear the HMG spin up (so yeah, the HMG should be buffed in damage). They're for point defense, I'll stick by that belief as well.
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization 17	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:29:00 - [194] - Quote logi lav is the only true murder taxi.. the logi is a combat medic on the field.. or the guy that carries extra ammo for the team... there r diffrent support roles on the field.. lets place there shields and armor.. at a diffrent level.. maybe 5% less than most assault suits....
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 93	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:44:00 - [195] - Quote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_medic Seeing as there is no Geneva Convention in Dust(or anything similar at all) I need my light weapon(and before you start in on this saying my AR is a crutch my mass driver says hi). If there's anything that would ruin the logistics role for most logistics players it would be the loss of the light weapon slot. This would cause me to either move in front of the assault characters in order to help with combat or become completely useless in a combat role. Making me use all of the equipment slots would impact my survivability. Lowering cpu and pg and making equipment dirt cheap wouldn't make as big of a difference as you would think.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1183	Posted - 2013.06.19 17:06:00 - [196] - Quote Speaking as someone who used only a sidearms for an entire build having them be your only weapon (outside of certain specific scout suit configurations, I'm looking at you Nova Knives) isn't very viable and most certainly does reduce your ability to effectively support your team. The side arm only idea is frankly not viable. While I am sure that there are some who could make it work they are a minority not an average and thus not a good point to balance around. Further re-balancing the suits due to a skill related issue is simply and bluntly bad balance practice. The Minmitar Logi has been the same suit since closed beta and none of these threads showed up until after Uprising. The Amarr Logi is weaker than the rest of the Logi line including the Min Logi, as such can it can be discounted out of hand. That leaves the Cal and Gal Logi and it's the Cal Logi that one sees a pervasive presence of not the Gal Logi, further Gal Logi relies on the UP armor tank, making it even slower, to gain it's utility and it's racial bonus is to fitting equipment slots. Turning our attention to the Cal Logi it's eHP is drastically reduced without it's racial and in nearly all other respects it is inferior to the Cal Assault suit having to pay via ISK/SP/Slots to compensate for it's baseline shortfalls as compared with it's Assault brother. So while the Cal Logi does outperform the rest of the Logi line it's not the suit it's the racial skill, and if armor weren't < shields that gap would be smaller. Many posters here like to gloss over the import of speed to survival, this is quite frankly a mistake. Think about what a Heavy would be if it moved at Assault speed? Think about how dead a scout would be if it moved at below Assault speed (aka Logi speed) even if it were faster than the Heavies. The gap between speed values on the medium frames is less most certainly but Assaults are geared for Shield tanking and Logi, if they are more geared for armor tanking if they are to make use of their role skill (clearly the Cal Logis racial buff trumps this). Meaning that on average the Logi is even slower once tanked while the Assault maintains their, already superior, initial baseline. Even ignoring this telescoping effect on speed values a little speed can make or break a hot gun battle. Getting to cover a little faster can save your life. Strafing a little faster than your opponent can get you the kill. Circling around a piece of cover a little faster can get you behind an enemy. Moving a little faster than someone you're chasing means you catch them. Moving a little faster than someone casing you means you escape them. A little speed is combat relevant. But suppose for a second that I'm wrong and that a little speed is meaningless, that's just a sign that CCP needs to take another look at movement values game wide so that movement is relevant. And even if movement weren't relevant (which I firmly contend it is) that still leaves all the other on board base stats of the Assault that are superior, a superiority increased when SP is invested into % based passive skills. I final note to provide context for what "A little speed" is in this context. It takes a 10% buff to bring Logi speed up to that of an Assaults base value, assuming the Logi is using not armor whatsoever, a value just 2% less than the Proto type Kinetic Catalyzer and that's before we even include the higher stamina and stamina recovery rate on the Assault suits. Ignoring a prototype modules worth of stat difference isn't going to yield good game balance. 0.02 ISK Cross
padraic darby planetary tactical enforcement 3	Posted - 2013.06.19 17:32:00 - [197] - Quote cy6 wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: cy6 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: If Logis only had a Sidearm slot instead of a light weapon slot, then they'd be just as useful for Support and no where near as capable as Assaults. Just swap the Logi Light weapon slot for a Sidearm slot. Anyone who disagrees only wants to keep their 3/4 Equipment slot Assault suit. Sidearms will allow the Logi to contribute to DPS without being a Slayer-logi. The weapon isnt a problem, its the logi's ability to stack armor/shields as well as assaults can while maintaining equipment options. Force players who want to be support play logi and those who want to go on a massacre assaults (remove the equipment slot). That's the Heavy role, they have that already. No. Heavies are for defensive purposes (defending an area from enemy advancement or creating an offensive wall for assaults to push foward). assaults are meant to go into enemy territory and simply kill. the logi is meant to keep the heavy/assaults alive. and the scout is meant to hack while the enemy is distracted. the assaults are meant to get in and do some damage and get out. scouts are meant to flank the enemy and get a sneaky hack. logis are meant to support the team or be selfsustaining and the heavy is meant to storm the building and clear it. but in dust you can make the dropsuits do whatever you want them to do.
ShotsofJac The Merc Net 1	Posted - 2013.06.19 18:09:00 - [198] - Quote out of everything yall could b*h about it would be this....congrats guys, i have found yall. and by yall i mean the people who cry and whine about how the game is built. you people kill games by fussing so much and so loud that the game gets changed and it becomes useless. if yall would have thought ahead and spec'd into logi instead of wasting your sp into assault then you wouldnt fuss. do yall bh about heavys? or scouts running too fast? no yall bh just cuss u can carry extra equipment, cpu/pg?..... i dont get it. p.s. you can carry a needle and still kill with the best of them. try it and stop B*hin' !!!!
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 378	Posted - 2013.06.19 18:15:00 - [199] - Quote I don't view myself as a statistical outlier. I am in no way shape or form an "elite gun game" player. I still do just fine running with Sidearms only. It is all about being smart about your choices, deciding when to engage and when to flee. The only Light Weapons I've spec'd into at all are Swarms for AV and Sniper Rifles for countersniping. Having said this, I did have a thought that I believe might be a decent compromise between my view of Sidearms being a viable weapon selection for logi and the view held by others that Sidearms possess no combat viability. Give Logis a "Logi Weapon Slot". Anyone here familiar with 3e/3.5e D&D or older? Remember how Rogues/Thieves had their weapon selection? This is basically what I am proposing, make it so that the Logi Weapon Slot can fit any Sidearm as well as Mass Driver, Shotgun and Swarm Launcher. This would allow them to retain some access to Light Weapons as well as access to Sidearms without being able to fit up an AR Assault God in a Logi Suit. I will continue to stand by my assertion that "Sidearms Only" is a viable tweak to logi suits and I feel that the only reason people disagree is that they are unwilling to truly run support intelligently. This idea is merely my concession to those who disagree with me. Sorry if that comes across as cocky, I just firmly believe that Sidearms are a viable choice for Logi.
Halcyon MI1 Contract Hunters 0	Posted - 2013.06.19 18:45:00 - [200] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Halcyon MI1 wrote: First off, I know this has been talked over a thousand times. [sic] so try to keep it civil. Ok, before I respond to the rest of the post I'd like to say a couple things about the bits I've quoted. First thank you for making an effort to keep things civil, cheers to that o7 Second, since we're talking about things that have been stated a thousand times over would you be willing and able to accept my challenge and provide is with fits that support the idea there's an actual disparity? Please inform me if you don't know what challenge I'm talking about and I will be happy to repost the method/standards of the challenge. I am completely open to discussion on this topic but what I'm not open too is discussion of a nerf (on this or any other feature) without substantiation of the concept that there is indeed a problem, hence my fittings challenge. Cheers, Cross Hey there! I actually think I've squadded up with you, with Hellstorm maybe? Okay, I am posting and reading from my phone at the moment, so I'd really appreciate it if you messaged me this challenge! More than happy to consider it, even if I probably don't have the skill points to fit both proto Logistics and Assault suits, I may be able to run a few tests! So please do, and thank you! o7 to you :)

Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1184	Posted - 2013.06.19 18:46:00 - [201] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: I don't view myself as a statistical outlier. I am in no way shape or form an "elite gun game" player. I still do just fine running with Sidearms only. It is all about being smart about your choices, deciding when to engage and when to flee. The only Light Weapons I've spec'd into at all are Swarms for AV and Sniper Rifles for countersniping. Having said this, I did have a thought that I believe might be a decent compromise between my view of Sidearms being a viable weapon selection for logi and the view held by others that Sidearms possess no combat viability. Give Logis a "Logi Weapon Slot". Anyone here familiar with 3e/3.5e D&D or older? Remember how Rogues/Thieves had their weapon selection? This is basically what I am proposing, make it so that the Logi Weapon Slot can fit any Sidearm as well as Mass Driver, Shotgun and Swarm Launcher. This would allow them to retain some access to Light Weapons as well as access to Sidearms without being able to fit up an AR Assault God in a Logi Suit. I really cannot see how the removal of a Light Weapon slot can be called a "tweak". I further still have not seen any fittings the validate the idea logi suits actually need to be changed at all or that there are nerf cries based on anything beyond the Cal Logi skill buff. The Min suit has been the same since closed beta and it used to be a running joke that "we'd know the player base had gone south when they started asking to nerf the Logi". I'd like to point out that it was my Assault squad mates who came up with and perpetuated this joke not the Logi so this was by no means a protectionist thing. Enter Uprising, the racial skill buffs, the "I Win" which was TAR pre-nerf and the pervasive posting of Logi nerf threads. What changed in the Logi between the idea of nerfing being a joke among Assault players and the constant QQ about Logi? The racial skills and the TAR. The TAR has now been nerfed but it's still not uncommon and the perceptions it created are not gone. Further ARs have been defended for many builds as properly balanced and viable because they're "supposed to be adaptable" which is the same reason being given by many for Logi suit nerfs that doesn't conceptually add up. I've repeated many times that I'd like to see fits which prove the need for an alteration to the logi suits, I still have not really seen fits at all much less more than one fit from every racial paring showing a pervasive disparity which needs mechanical alterations to correct. I'd still like to see those fits, because without them there's not much to substantiate the concept that there's even a problem in the first place. I'll also reiterate that if said fits cannot be done without use of the AR then the problem clearly does not simply lay within the Logi Suit line. Alaika Arbosa wrote: I will continue to stand by my assertion that "Sidearms Only" is a viable tweak to logi suits and I feel that the only reason people disagree is that they are unwilling to truly run support intelligently. This idea is merely my concession to those who disagree with me. Sorry if that comes across as cocky, I just firmly believe that Sidearms are a viable choice for Logi. Let me be blunt, while you can stand by your assertion, in the absence of independently reproducible balance data such as fittings you have no grounds to try and force your play style onto every other Merc who looks at a logi suit. Further claiming that anyone who doesn't agree is "unwilling to trully run support intelligently" borders on being both a straw man and ad hominem. Presuming that those who don't play within your chosen play style are simply "wrong" does not equate to solid balance theory. I play support Logi, being one of those guys who stuck with the repair tool even when it had no WP, the vast majority of my WP come from support actions. I've spent a build focused on side arm use and did reasonably well with it. I've been here since closed beta and I can say without equivocation that nefing the Logi to only use sidearms decreases the overall viability of the class. In point of fact everyone, including yourself, who's suggesting it implicitly says the same thing by making the suggestion as the means to "balance the OP'ed logi line" because if it didn't nerf the logi then it wouldn't "stop it from being OP". Most support Logi don't run with only sidearms and we are neither OP 'slayers' nor unwilling to run support intelligently. I will continue to stand by my assertion that any nerf to logi suits is bad balance until fittings and numbers are provided to prove otherwise. 0.02 ISK Cross
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1184	Posted - 2013.06.19 18:53:00 - [202] - Quote Halcyon MI1 wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Halcyon MI1 wrote: First off, I know this has been talked over a thousand times. [sic] so try to keep it civil. Ok, before I respond to the rest of the post I'd like to say a couple things about the bits I've quoted. First thank you for making an effort to keep things civil, cheers to that o7 Second, since we're talking about things that have been stated a thousand times over would you be willing and able to accept my challenge and provide is with fits that support the idea there's an actual disparity? Please inform me if you don't know what challenge I'm talking about and I will be happy to repost the method/standards of the challenge. I am completely open to discussion on this topic but what I'm not open too is discussion of a nerf (on this or any other feature) without substantiation of the concept that there is indeed a problem, hence my fittings challenge. Cheers, Cross Hey there! I actually think I've squadded up with you, with Hellstorm maybe? Okay, I am posting and reading from my phone at the moment, so I'd really appreciate it if you messaged me this challenge! More than happy to consider it, even if I probably don't have the skill points to fit both proto Logistics and Assault suits, I may be able to run a few tests! So please do, and thank you! o7 to you :) Yes we've run squads a few times (mostly gunning with Hellstorm guys like Fundies, IX, Revival etc) I'll link the challenge standards below and try to dig up the fittings tool as well so that you don't have to spend your SP to be able to test all these things. Also you can use the market for all the mod and suit stats and not have to spend anything either. Since the racial skill buffs need a balance pass and the other skills are open to everyone we can just use base item stats for the challenge and they'll work just fine (I don't want to require anyone to spend millions of SP to help with balance testing now that the game is live). Challenge Cross Atu wrote: Build me a combat viable Logi fit that follows these rules Build best fit with it's racial Assault counterpart to establish a baseline Build the Logi fit to meet or exceed all stats of the Assault suit, without omitting or cheery picking from the stat block Build the above fits without use of the AR Build the above fits without use of the Cal Logi suit OR without including any skill buffs in listed stats. After normalizing stats (i.e. fitting to at least match as per #2) make best efforts to fill open slots. Tally SP required to unlock/fit all mods used for the fitting Tally ISK cost of the fitting including all mods and suits List the results Looking forward to what you come up with o7 Cheers, Cross ps ~ Feel free to catch me in game for more squads any time, it'd be fun to run with you again.
Eldest Dragon D3LTA ACADEMY 36	Posted - 2013.06.19 19:01:00 - [203] - Quote The Black Jackal wrote: Eldest Dragon wrote: I have something to say, regarding people saying logis are suppose to do this, assaults are suppose to do this, ok maybe there originally meant for that.... but the point of the game and the most unique part for that matter is being able to take a suit and then change it and customize to meet your needs and wants as a player. As soon as caladari heavies come out I may want a cal heavy with an assault rifle, who cares if there not suppose to use ar's, I can use the suit as w/e and in any way I want. So people quit fussing about an assault logi ffs, if you think there too good, then skill into them. Bottom line if the suits are made to only be able to run them or be effective in 1 way, for example logi being logi, well then there goes our unique one of a kind customization. The ability to be unique and diffrent in your customization, is my favorite part of this game, and truly makes it diffrent from all others. Dont encourage ccp to ruin the game plz, if you dont like it, play blk ops. As stated before.. the customization starts with choosing the suit for the role... You want to be an Assault, choose an Assault Suit... Then you CUSTOMIZE within that role. Else we would have a single Suit, 4 high slots, 4 low slots, 1 Grenade, 2 Equipments, and that would be it. No role bonuses, just a 'Standard' Frame that everyone fits. Customization WITHIN a framework. To use an EVE term, you don't fit a Logistics Cruiser to do Damage, you fit it to repair and re-energize... if you want an Attack Cruiser, buy one. Ok dude im tired of typing, one more time now, the point is after the customization and changing its no longer really a specific role anyway. You choose a suit with the most stats, slots.. ect. that you want or need, then you customize it, maybe I want a battle medic... so then I choose the suit that allows me to heal and fight equally the best. Another example is a heavy thats meant to be slow, so what dude.. they should stay slow.. no you have the option to add modules for more speed and stamina. Therefore by all rights, your not really a heavy any more, there faster than a heavy is meant to be then. Bottom line... the only way to make it where logi does logi, assault does assault, is to take out or limit the options and ability to customize so much. Hence... ruining the game.. at least for me.
Eldest Dragon D3LTA ACADEMY 36	Posted - 2013.06.19 19:06:00 - [204] - Quote Main point guys... pick the role and suit you want based on the base attributes, slots, and bonuses...then do w/e you want to do with it. Thats the great part of customization. So if I wanna speed up on you with a heavy, or mow you down with a logi guess what thats how I customized and thats what this game allows.....do not mess this up ccp please... for all you do not like these facts leave dust already.
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 93	Posted - 2013.06.19 20:18:00 - [205] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: I don't view myself as a statistical outlier. I am in no way shape or form an "elite gun game" player. I still do just fine running with Sidearms only. It is all about being smart about your choices, deciding when to engage and when to flee. The only Light Weapons I've spec'd into at all are Swarms for AV and Sniper Rifles for countersniping. Give Logis a "Logi Weapon Slot". Your definition of "just fine" vs my definition of "just fine" are likely different. I would add you as a contact and take a look at your stats on the contacts leaderboards but chances are they're going to be screwed up again. I would be fine with a logi weapon slot, but you are still going to alienate true logis that aren't combat able without an AR. However, this still doesn't address the Caldari logistics suit being the only suit with issues due to it's racial bonus(I just spent 45 minutes trying to create a better Minmatar logistics suit than I could make with a Minmatar assault suit and failed to get an equivalent). Edit: lots of posts between, more reading I guess.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 546	Posted - 2013.06.20 00:01:00 - [206] - Quote Eldest Dragon wrote: Main point guys... pick the role and suit you want based on the base attributes, slots, and bonuses...then do w/e you want to do with it. Thats the great part of customization. So if I wanna speed up on you with a heavy, or mow you down with a logi guess what thats how I customized and thats what this game allows.....do not mess this up ccp please... for all you do not like these facts leave dust already. p.s. And to you black.....thats the point it dosnt start with picking a role... not in this game. You dont have to pick an assault suit to run assault... this is not eve.....if you dont like it play eve or go back to blk ops. Dust514 should stay as it is...hopefully people realize what really makes this game one of a kind....and do not encourage ccp to ruin it. Never blacked Black Ops... got tired of the entire CoD line after 4... And customization DOES start with a chosen role... else you don't have a direction to lead... You want to mow people down, sure... What suits are best suitred for it? Heavies, Assaults... at (Cal Logis). You want to be support, what's the best suit for it... well Logi, coz you can do multiple support things with equipment slots, wheras the Assault and Scouts only have 1. You want a speedy scout to run distraction, or hack far points behind enemy lines... do you run a heavy? no, you run a scout. I'm NOT saying that altering some of the characteristics of said 'role specific' suits shouldn't be allowed, but the suit choice itself is determined by what you want to do in the game. As it is in any game of note. Even BF3, CoD have 'roles' that can be customized within limits based on the 'role' you choose. THat's the simple fact. Examine your own though process, you want to take damage, wield a f(&king Heavy Weapon like a bad ass, should you then be able to put one of those bad boys on your scout suit you've skilled for? No... on your Assault / Logi? No. Suit defines INTENDED ROLE and is always the first choice in your customization routine.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1188	Posted - 2013.06.20 01:24:00 - [207] - Quote @The Black Jackal, Since you started this thread and are still here could I persuade you to post some actual fits that support the contention Logi suits need to be changed at all? I'll be happy to grab the standards of the challenge if you've missed them all the other times I've posted them. It's getting a bit like the twilight zone around here with all the focus on logi suit nerf, or role alteration, or damage modification etc. without fittings, video or other independently reproducible data being provided to substantiate that there's even a problem to be addressed in the first place. 0.02 ISK Cross
ShotsofJac The Merc Net 1	Posted - 2013.06.20 02:09:00 - [208] - Quote To The Black Jackal, guy you are facing a loosing battle and whoever you have supporting you they to are loosing this topic. Eldest Dragon probably said it the best, when you have a fps no matter the format you make the best class that gets the job done, it doesnt matter what you can do or not do in eve.....plain and simple. i bet if they come out with the "commando" class you will b***h about it being unfair/op or whatever you would call it? basically all im hearing from you is that you realized you spec'd wrong after you noticed this isnt a normal fps, and all i have to say to that is.....sucks to be you, or you can adapt to the game play and overcome.
Mikael Murray Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:43:00 - [209] - Quote Take away 1 high slot. Dun
padraic darby planetary tactical enforcement 3	Posted - 2013.06.21 02:53:00 - [210] - Quote Mikael Murray wrote: Take away 1 high slot. Dun and low slot



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