and low slot

I think most people are aware of the Caldari Logistics ability to tank. It's written plain as day in their description, and it's being abused under the current mechanic. Not because it's a bad mechanic, but the fact there is NO downside to running said Logi... you give up a Sidearm, to gain:

- More Shields
- More PG
- More CPU
- More Equipment

I have a simple solution. Reduce the damage done by logistics Suits by 30-40%, across the board. Just a flat reduction in 'weapons' damage. (So Remote Explosives, Grenades etc are still as effective, but your guns are not.)

Give them a detriment equal to their advantage. At the moment there is only one downside to running a Logistics Suit as an Assault, and it's nothing comparative to what you gain.

This damage reduction would be applicable to ALL Logistics Suits, putting them into a support role, where they should be. Not as a Frontline Attacker.

To The Black Jackal, guy you are facing a loosing battle and whoever you have supporting you they to are loosing this topic. Eldest Dragon probably said it the best, when you have a fps no matter the format you make the best class that gets the job done, it doesnt matter what you can do or not do in eve.....plain and simple. i bet if they come out with the "commando" class you will b***h about it being unfair/op or whatever you would call it? basically all im hearing from you is that you realized you spec'd wrong after you noticed this isnt a normal fps, and all i have to say to that is.....sucks to be you, or you can adapt to the game play and overcome.

The issue is minmitar has 5 high slots for damage modifiers.
That should be reserved for assault class.

That's just as bad as my original idea.

I've come up with a possible solution...

Remove bonuses not tied to logistics, and put in logistics bonuses...

So Shield HP, gone...
Armor Rep increase... gone...
Hacking speed.... well let the Minnie logis decide if that's useful

Gallente is the only Logi-focused Bonus atm... with reduction to Fitting req for Equipment.

Here's a few bonuses to throw around

- Improved Rep tool use (Increases repping done by tool)
- Greater nanohive Capacity (More nanite 'cluster's per Nanhive)
- Improved Nanite Injector Radius (Should be in most anyway... but logis can 'revive' from further away so you don't need to stand exactly on top of the person)

THese are just possible ideas... encourage logistics roles, but don't 'exclude' anything from being fitted. Enhance the role-specific stuff.

even 50% would be a benefit. The Logistics LAV has an inherent 25% reduction to it's damage output.

They should just remove the pg/cpu requirements for equipment then Nerf pg so that Armour/shield mods are hard to stack.

Logistics Suits are designed to 'Support' not Attack...

A Tanky Support member is a boon to a team.

Logistics are MEANT to be support roles. It comes with the territory.

This isn't a hi creative solution, this is a simple solution that would stop people abusing Logistics...

as stated above, giving up your sidearm for all the benefits..

While Caldari Logistics are currently the most noted, the other logistics do gain all of the above, with the exception of the Higher Shield HP.

Minmatar Hacking Bonus, indicates a Support function.

Gallente Equipment PG / CPU reduction indicates a Support function.

Amarr LKogistics bonus increases survivability.

Caldari Logistics Bonus indicates survivability.

I wouldn't question Survivability, if it was tempered by a greater reduction in it's combat ability. ala Logistics LAV.

So why are you trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Only cal logi needs a fix. You people get dumber every day with your "solutions"

I'm too lazy to do that Cross xD too much excel for my reduced brain.

[sic]

I've come up with a possible solution...

Remove bonuses not tied to logistics, and put in logistics bonuses...

So Shield HP, gone...
Armor Rep increase... gone...
Hacking speed.... well let the Minnie logis decide if that's useful

Gallente is the only Logi-focused Bonus atm... with reduction to Fitting req for Equipment.

Here's a few bonuses to throw around

- Improved Rep tool use (Increases repping done by tool)
- Greater nanohive Capacity (More nanite 'cluster's per Nanhive)
- Improved Nanite Injector Radius (Should be in most anyway... but logis can 'revive' from further away so you don't need to stand exactly on top of the person)

THese are just possible ideas... encourage logistics roles, but don't 'exclude' anything from being fitted. Enhance the role-specific stuff.

It seems highly unlikely that you play support as a primary consider your presentation of what "is not tied to logistics" above.
Buffer HP becomes more important for basic survival the slower the suit in question and Logi are slower than everything out there this side of the Heavy frame.
I would be very interested in a specific definition form you regarding what you consider "logistics" to mean since you've eliminated dealing damage, taking damage or possibly hacking from the pool are logi only supposed to carry equipment and provide no functional value aside from that?

Also of note, I've run numbers on this due to a discussion in another thread an the Gallente racial buff that you mention, the fitting req savings for Equipment? It is less valuable than the current base logi role buff of 5 HP/s self rep on armor. From a fittings perspective is provides an enhancement of available PG/CPU above the cost of a complex repper which is less than the value of 1 level in Electronics or Engineering. And it does this at a considerable investment of SP.

Put more bluntly the one racial logi bonus which you have said is acceptable is by far the least valuable of all the skills present. It in fact provides less overall utility than the basic fittings skills.

Speaking as a full support Logi since closed beta here are the effects of your example ideas

- Improved Rep tool use (Increases repping done by tool)
Until CCP alters the WP mechanics for repair tools this is a nerf to Logi earnings. This will provide more HP/s in reps it's true, and that does have tactical value however the tactical merit combined with the depression in earnings will push logi even further into running only basic or militia gear as the 'risk vs reward' will not make it worth while to do otherwise.
More info on that here

- Greater nanohive Capacity (More nanite 'cluster's per Nanhive)
This could actually be incredibly useful, I'd personally really consider running a suit with this buff. The major drawbacks being that so would every assault player who hates running out of ammo or loves armor repairing hives. Nanohives aren't the most used equipment by such a wide margin because support logi are stacking multiplies of them on our suits
The other drawback is that this once again causes reduced incentive to skill into, buy or use upper meta gear. CCP has a cool down on WP earnings from hives thus limiting how much 'reward' they can provide while the 'risk' remains constant, thus a skill like this simply provides incentive for the logi to save on costs (SP, ISK, and CPU/PG) by simply using a lessor grade of hive.

- Improved Nanite Injector Radius (Should be in most anyway... but logis can 'revive' from further away so you don't need to stand exactly on top of the person)
I firmly believe the revive radius needs a bit of a size increase, and I believe it should be game wide. Setting that aside however I love this one, it would provide some real utility to a logi by helping them to support their team while not being insta-gibbed by hostile forces. Balance might be tricky but then again balance always is. If you put up a thread suggesting this please let me know as I'd be happy to give it a +1


In closing I'd like to renew my request for you to post any and all fittings that you believe support the concept that logi need a change. So far everything I've encountered suggests to me that the only two problems in the Logi line are the Amarr suit having underpowered PG and the Caldari suit racial skill being slightly overpowered. You are suggesting that changes need to be made game wide which requires game wide examples to support it (non-anecdotal/subjective ones).

Cheers,
Cross

As per above, I abandoned my concept of 'limiting or restricting' logis in ANY way. I have switched my stance to giving them bonuses to equipment effects... or requirements...

So in essence... those bonuses replace the OP ones of the Caldari Logi, the marr gets some other bonus, minmatar may (though I don't know the effect of hacking skill unless you're always hacking the points).

The Gallente Prototpye Logi can carry up to 9-10 Drop Uplinks that are deployable... If you've seen PC matches, this is a HUGE supportive role. And one used VERY frequently by most top PC corps. This is due to the reduction of CPU and PG on equipment. Which affects Protype Gear to the point where they can fit this many.

There's a spoof image one of my guys posted up. (It's in the general section atm) about facing Hellstorm... the Uplinks you see in that image, are 3 logi's worth...

Though you say it's the 'least useful' it's still a VERY useful bonus.

As to the others...

If something is 'tactically better' that's the reason it should be implemented... not due to lack of rewards (which is what you based some of your premise on). Being able to rep more is a boon to your team, while rewarding such behaviour is a separate issue.

The greater Nanohive Capavity would only apply to Nanhovives thrown down by logis, so Assaults woudln;t benefit directly from it. They're already giving injectors a bigger radius, but the logis need a much larger one that could be considered a 'ranged revive'.

In essence, I'm supporting your positions that the 'suits' are generally fine (aside from Amarr), but the bonuses need work. And need to follow the line that logis support others. It wont STOP people fitting Assault-focused Logis, but it ENCOURAGES supporting actions over combat.

Oh and on that note I DO play Caldari Logistics. With Assault Rifle... Though I only run a Standard Suit... most of my skills are in HAVs (Gimped Shield Tanks with Gimped Missiles)

It seems highly unlikely that you play support as a primaryIt seems highly unlikely that you play support as a primary

CRAPPY IDEA

I think most people are aware of the Caldari Logistics ability to tank. It's written plain as day in their description, and it's being abused under the current mechanic. Not because it's a bad mechanic, but the fact there is NO downside to running said Logi... you give up a Sidearm, to gain:


Reduce the damage done by logistics Suits by 30-40%,.

I also tend to disagree with the whole 'Logistics Suit Bonus' idea that gives a generic 5 hps Armor rep to all Logis... should be shifted to suit each suit better.

I also tend to disagree with the whole 'Logistics Suit Bonus' idea that gives a generic 5 hps Armor rep to all Logis... should be shifted to suit each suit better.

I think that they should instead get a bonus to repair tool repair amount. The self heal is nice as it eliminates the need to fit an armor repair but overall I think making them better repair tool users would make more sense. Maybe 5% bonus to repair amount per level instead. This would allow nanohives, nanite injectors, and repair tools to get a boost. I guess it could affect their fitted armor repairers too but meh. Most important is making the Logi a support role, not an alternative assault or a better assault rather.

Yea no , how about we nerf your forum capabilities for a while, give you a little cooldown ....crazy

I absolutely love the 5 hp/s. Does it make the suit overpowered? I don't think so. In short fights it doesn't make any real difference - maybe an extra 2 shots from an AR to take me down. In long fights it definitely has it's advantages. This bonus saved me from dying in a firefight twice tonight and only when I was using a prototype suit with 750 eHP(my other suits didn't have enough HP to last long enough to do enough damage with the mass driver - especially vs prototype weapons). This may become overpowered with the new armor modules coming but we will have to wait and see.


I would also note that my hacking bonus on my Minmatar logistics suit is awesome when you get to use it. Being behind most other suits means you don't get to use it as often as you would like. Again, the new armor modules will likely make a difference but only for Minmatar as they are the fastest logi suits(which is why I chose it - same speed as most assaults but it's lost due to having to armor tank).