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A Possible Solution to Logistics used as Assaults.

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Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 121	Posted - 2013.06.17 15:12:00 - [1] - Quote The Black Jackal wrote: Give them a detriment equal to their advantage. At the moment there is only one downside to running a Logistics Suit as an Assault, and it's nothing comparative to what you gain. This damage reduction would be applicable to ALL Logistics Suits, putting them into a support role, where they should be. Not as a Frontline Attacker. You are welcome to skill into a logistics suit, and if you don't think there are disadvantages to running them you are sadly mistaken. Less shields (on all but the Caldari Logi), less armor, and one less weapon already place these suits on the losing end of many a battle between an Assault suit vs Logi suit battle of the same racial variant. Where I can empty a clip into someone and they are already still standing I need to reload before continuing my assault, you switch to a sidearm and finish the job. Do you really want logistics players to stop helping you? What you ask would put them in Assault suits to be able to survive longer. I would do it if there were a damage reduction on the Logi suit even though I need my equipment slots to provide nanohives for all you ASSaults who seem to think a logi shouldn't be able to kill you when in all reality, with your extra high slots you can put weapon damage upgrades to achieve that effect where I need to put shield extenders to get enough health to be able to supply you with ammo or run to inject a fallen teammate or rep the heavy while under fire. Just because I play logi doesn't make me a GOD. It means that I build my suit to last under fire and my gun is chosen to protect me and my fallen teammate by killing the enemy before reviving him. If you want, me and the other logis can farm WP all day by dropping you and raising you to be shot again, it won't hurt my KDR but maybe it will hurt yours. Some of your confusion about skill level is apparent, when you see me and my brethren (LOGIBROS) running across the field to hack objectives and placing equipment in the C-1 or G-1 or M-1 or even the A-1 suit often we have the ability to use proto gear and simply do not due to cost. The cost of that Proto gear is why all weapons need to do damage the same regardless of the suit its on. Should your uplinks/nanohives/nanite injectors/reptools affect your fellow mercs less or allow less ammo or reps or spawns just because the merc deploying it is in an ASSault suit? I think not. I would wager they deserve it to function the same way mine do because they spend the same amount of SP on it I do just as I spend the same amount of SP on my AR as you do. If you are getting killed by a logi in any logi suit consider the fact that many of us in logi suits have been around since the start of Open Beta and some of us since the start of Closed Beta. Consistently finding Logis that can kill you means that we are often highly skilled players/high SP toons and are not pushovers. Don't be that guy who complains that they're OP because they kill me every time, be the guy who learns from mistakes and makes it a challenge to kill you. As a Logibro, my KDR is more often not positive, I am not a killing machine yet my WP puts me on the top of the leaderboard 8/10 times. Why? Because I bring to the field the balance that you as an assault player do not, the healing of your armor and the resupply of your bullets, the spawn behind enemy lines and the hacking of an objective that you cannot because there are too many people shooting you. Is my gun weaker? No. Do I kill players? Yes but my focus is on the team goal not my KDR and not on rushing the enemy for kills. I bring my squad with me when I move, when I need to reload they are finishing off the enemy I started killing. I am a frontline player, but so is the rest of my squad. Everytime. I play to win and yes my gun will hurt you, just as yours hurts me but I can't count the number of times a Militia X weapon has taken me out. I am slower than you, why do I make it to the objective first? Why are you not running out into the groups of enemies to help your teammates? Can I count on you for armor or ammo? Will you pick me up IF I get killed? With your higher shield and armor totals I expect far more out of you than hiding behind a rock while I lead a charge on an objective to be repeatedly killed so that you can protect your precious KDR. You want your weapons to do more damage? Great, theres a skill for that.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 121	Posted - 2013.06.17 15:40:00 - [2] - Quote Galthur wrote: Django Quik wrote: There are 2 ways to stop logis being used as assaults: 1) replace the light weapon slot with a sidearm slot only or 2) remove at least half of the hi and low slots I hope you know ONLY proto variants have problems so why can't we give assaults 1 more slot and problem solved, stop trying to overnerf The proto variants don't have problems...they are a high SP required suit. If it were supposed to be equal with a base level logi there would be no need to skill into the proto. Also I think we shoould remove an equipment slot from the Assault class, they don't need it, they also don't need armor or shields so we can take those too. They are supposed to assault, not hide when the logis come running at them.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 123	Posted - 2013.06.17 16:58:00 - [3] - Quote Out of all the arguments for a nerf the one topic that consistantly is brought up are their shields. The flux grenade is the counter. It is fully anti shield and I can carry 3 of them at a time. If you want to dedicate an assault suit to killing caldari logis then you need 3 things. 1 flux grenades 2 scrambler rifle (proto if possible) 3 M-3 nanohive for grenade resupply. This can be done with any assault class suit even the militia assault and be successful. There is always a counter to the Cal Logi and as such it is balanced, just because it works for more than one thing well does not mean it needs a nerf.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 123	Posted - 2013.06.17 17:14:00 - [4] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: And you still think everyone pointing out things too strong are QQing as they are killed by them? Yes At least about this they are... No offense Cross because you raise some really good points, I believe anyone who can put together his challenge suits should and quick before CCP nerfs/buffs something out of proportion and causes unnecesary QQ.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 125	Posted - 2013.06.17 18:52:00 - [5] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: This, one flux and I'm squishier than a scout. The problem with that is flux grenades still suffer from the same terrain glitches as all splash damage weapons. Maybe you just need to learn how to throw like a girl. They don't suffer from terrain glitches, we all suffer from terrain glitches. Nerf terrain is what this thread should be about.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 125	Posted - 2013.06.17 18:55:00 - [6] - Quote Jammer Jalapeno wrote: The Black Jackal wrote: I think most people are aware of the Caldari Logistics ability to tank. It's written plain as day in their description, and it's being abused under the current mechanic. Not because it's a bad mechanic, but the fact there is NO downside to running said Logi... you give up a Sidearm, to gain: - More Shields - More PG - More CPU - More Equipment I have a simple solution. Reduce the damage done by logistics Suits by 30-40%, across the board. Just a flat reduction in 'weapons' damage. (So Remote Explosives, Grenades etc are still as effective, but your guns are not.) Give them a detriment equal to their advantage. At the moment there is only one downside to running a Logistics Suit as an Assault, and it's nothing comparative to what you gain. This damage reduction would be applicable to ALL Logistics Suits, putting them into a support role, where they should be. Not as a Frontline Attacker. No that is just cruel....quite often I will have to fight off a pack of people just to revive a squad member. I need to bite just as hard as the rest. Exactly my point.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 126	Posted - 2013.06.17 19:29:00 - [7] - Quote The Black Jackal wrote: TV Repair Guy wrote: Don't change anything, flux grenades are devastating enough to shield-tankers. If I hear flux going off I have to run scared because my armor is so squishy. The assault bonus just isn't that good, and most people are carrying AV grenades to cope with murder taxis. Instead of making logistics suits worthless like the crybabies want, improve the assault class bonus. I like the logistics suit and I can be a frontline attacker if I feel like it, GTFO. Logistics Suits are designed to 'Support' not Attack... A Tanky Support member is a boon to a team. Logistics are MEANT to be support roles. It comes with the territory. This isn't a hi creative solution, this is a simple solution that would stop people abusing Logistics... as stated above, giving up your sidearm for all the benefits.. While Caldari Logistics are currently the most noted, the other logistics do gain all of the above, with the exception of the Higher Shield HP. Minmatar Hacking Bonus, indicates a Support function. Gallente Equipment PG / CPU reduction indicates a Support function. Amarr LKogistics bonus increases survivability. Caldari Logistics Bonus indicates survivability. I wouldn't question Survivability, if it was tempered by a greater reduction in it's combat ability. ala Logistics LAV. You mean the yellow murder taxi right? The one that has more HP than anything else on the field and doesn't need to reload its bumper? It doesn't have a reduced combat potential it has an increased survivability rate which is detrimental to troops without AV as they are most often receiving the bumper in the back/front/right/left side of their suit along with the intense hatred of all vehicles LAV. The Caldari's survivability is laughable when compared with my Proto Galente Logi. It has a god mode most definitely as do Heavy suits and anyone else who cares to experiment with what can work well, having some extra HP.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 130	Posted - 2013.06.18 18:38:00 - [8] - Quote The Black Jackal wrote: RKKR wrote: I see both LLAVs and logis killing people. I don't see LLAVs supporting infantry or vehicles, I do see logis repping them both. We should discuss LLAVs so they do more support too then. If you want to discuss a possible solution then there should be a clear PROBLEM to begin with, maybe I missed it? CLearly you haven't seen me in my LLAV repping Infantry, but I will agree that LLAVs need to undergo some change to be MORE conducive to support. But the principal, which you have yet to deny, is still the same... The execution of it, is what I'm trying to provide a possible solution to. I don't believe you have in any way shown there to be a problem other than your possible attempt to ruin a certain suit's attributes through persuading us all that there is a problem. You give us no fits to base it on and show us no reason to believe you when you say there is a problem. The need for a solution is clear, put up or shut up. Post your fits, and a short video on what the problem is and we can then debate the solution. Otherwise you are just being ridiculous. Someone couldn't pay me enough isk to train back into the Logi Ck.0. Your argument that it is overpowered is preposterous and not based on fact. By the way, if in all reality you function better as an assault logi and you have a problem with that then maybe you need to reconsider your play style.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 130	Posted - 2013.06.18 18:47:00 - [9] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: Out of all the arguments for a nerf the one topic that consistantly is brought up are their shields. The flux grenade is the counter. It is fully anti shield and I can carry 3 of them at a time. If you want to dedicate an assault suit to killing caldari logis then you need 3 things. 1 flux grenades 2 scrambler rifle (proto if possible) 3 M-3 nanohive for grenade resupply. This can be done with any assault class suit even the militia assault and be successful. There is always a counter to the Cal Logi and as such it is balanced, just because it works for more than one thing well does not mean it needs a nerf. Look at the above post, he says GODMODE like the Caldari Logi is the only one with a god mode. There are ways to fit ALL the dropsuits so that they survive like a God but they require the right skills to do so. They also require forethought, and the right circumstances to pull off. In the right circumstances you can also kill any player on the field, so just what is it that needs balance? The reason why the Cal Logi is a successfully skilled suit is the shield bonus and the fact that any player worth their salt realizes that Shield Upgrades 5 gives them 25% more shields. This is a suit that can have 90% of their HP wiped out with one grenade. I know, I used to be a CALDARI Logi and found that the armor is not enough to withstand a TAC AR or HMG or Scrambler pistol/rifle or even a militia assault rifle for more than 3 shots or one burst. Dead is dead no matter how you get there, the vast majority of the Caldari Logis on the field are still dying and are not as OP as you claim them to be. Lesser suits can be instakilled by locus grenade as they have less HP. Being instakilled is far far worse than surviving with ~100 armor HP. Consider the armor tank of a Galente suit with 5 complex armor plates standing on top of 2 Wyykomi Triage Nanohives and 2 Alotek Nanohives...is one grenade going to kill him? This is an extreme example but he would move slower than a heavy and would be able to survive concentrated focus fire from the enemy team. With a Duvolle Tac or a proto scrambler rifle he would be almost unstopable, LLAV anyone?
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 130	Posted - 2013.06.18 21:58:00 - [10] - Quote Halcyon MI1 wrote: First off, I know this has been talked over a thousand times. Secondly, while I only have 4.5 million SP, I've specced into both Assault suits (pre-uprising) and Logistics suits (post-uprising), sporting Assault Rifles, Mass Drivers and Sniper Rifles ever since.-á The thing is, Logistics suits seem to have an advantage over Assault suits and Medium suits for two simple reasons: damage output and wider slot configurations. A logistics suit can deal as much damage as a dedicated assault while providing their team with the boons of equipment slots, and also carry more modules at the same time. This pair of advantages are coupled with higher prices and SP requirements to properly use a logistics suit, and the missing sidearm slot. But come on, sidearm slots aren't that useful when compared to two extra equipment slots (one in the case of Amarr variants and three in the case of Minnie protos) and, usually, a extra pair of module slots. Logistics are almost as good as assault suits at frontline infantry, but they can also carry out multiple other tasks and excel at them too, which is disheartening for Assault suit players (Caldari shield build anyone? That kills the mood). Why not just get logistics suits instead? They're more expensive to fit, yes, but can perform a wider number of roles and, in some cases, be better at them. What I suggest is the following: The light weapon slot in every logistics suit should be replaced by a sidearm slot, the Amarr having two slots and buffed CPU/PG to fit them.-á Before you say anything, keep in mind that Logistics suits were, probably IMO, supposed to support other suits in battle, instead they are jack-of-all-trades able to spec into pretty much anything and everything, with some pretty overpowered variants in comparison to their assault counterparts (Caldari are way better, Minmatar and Gallente are slightly more versatile and fittable)-á This is both an assault and logistics player saying this, I feel truly overpowered next to my squad when I KNOW for a fact that I'm not nearly as skilled as they are in shooters (Dust is my first) because I can lay down fire while keeping my squad up and running, netting me points I sometimes feel like I don't really deserve.-á I've been wanting to spec out of logistics suits because of this feeling they give me, and again this is only a suggestion, so try to keep it civil. I find that changing the light weapon slot to a sidearm slot a disaster for anyone. The lightweapon slot can be used for either a sidearm or light weapon but we are limited to one rather than two. The WP gain is the logi role we support. I build my WP nest not by being an effective killer but an effective healer. I do deserve the WPs gained and so do you. We are not overpowered. I have yet to see a logical reason as to why someone would think a logi overpowered. Needle, rep tool and nanohive are 3 reasons to have more pg and cpu and yet we are also slower and have lower base stats (hp) than assaults. I don't think that makes much sense but hey I make it work. If anything all Logi's could use a HP buff of say 5% per level.

Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 131	Posted - 2013.06.18 23:51:00 - [11] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Cass Barr wrote: There is no good reason. It's a lot of scrubs, that probably have low SP, who keep getting killed in pubs by Logis and they're convinced that it's the suit's fault. It has nothing to do with player skill. Medics shouldn't be able fight back! Lol in a lot of FPS the medics run around with the biggest guns, LMGs and they get a side arm! In BF3 medics are the assault suits, but at least in that game everyone has a purpose Assaults = nanite and repair tool, Heavies = ammo, Engineer = remote explosives, and recons = scanners. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned here. So Logis need a Light Weapon damage buff, I like it! 5% per logi level?
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 132	Posted - 2013.06.19 00:57:00 - [12] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: make it a requirement for logi's to have they're equip slots filled in order for fitting to be valid.. Make it a requirement for an assault player to actually "try" to capture objectives and shoot red berries and I'll think about your request.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 132	Posted - 2013.06.19 01:11:00 - [13] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: If Logis only had a Sidearm slot instead of a light weapon slot, then they'd be just as useful for Support and no where near as capable as Assaults. Just swap the Logi Light weapon slot for a Sidearm slot. Anyone who disagrees only wants to keep their 3/4 Equipment slot Assault suit. Sidearms will allow the Logi to contribute to DPS without being a Slayer-logi. GTFO Sidearms have no range. I may as well equip a qtip for cleaning your wounds. If you want some one in your corp to try this out with you and find out how effective it is be my guest. As a logi with an AR I will get kills yes, but the vast majority of the KDR board looks like this: 4-20-2 for K-A-D. How is this a slayer weapon?
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 132	Posted - 2013.06.19 01:18:00 - [14] - Quote cy6 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: If Logis only had a Sidearm slot instead of a light weapon slot, then they'd be just as useful for Support and no where near as capable as Assaults. Just swap the Logi Light weapon slot for a Sidearm slot. Anyone who disagrees only wants to keep their 3/4 Equipment slot Assault suit. Sidearms will allow the Logi to contribute to DPS without being a Slayer-logi. The weapon isnt a problem, its the logi's ability to stack armor/shields as well as assaults can while maintaining equipment options. Force players who want to be support play logi and those who want to go on a massacre assaults (remove the equipment slot). That's the Heavy role, they have that already.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 132	Posted - 2013.06.19 01:20:00 - [15] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: If Logis only had a Sidearm slot instead of a light weapon slot, then they'd be just as useful for Support and no where near as capable as Assaults. Just swap the Logi Light weapon slot for a Sidearm slot. Anyone who disagrees only wants to keep their 3/4 Equipment slot Assault suit. Sidearms will allow the Logi to contribute to DPS without being a Slayer-logi. GTFO Sidearms have no range. I may as well equip a qtip for cleaning your wounds. KMA, I run Logi and I do well enough with Sidearms, not my fault you want to keep your light weapon crutch. I want video evidence.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 132	Posted - 2013.06.19 01:23:00 - [16] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Jastad wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: If Logis only had a Sidearm slot instead of a light weapon slot, then they'd be just as useful for Support and no where near as capable as Assaults. Just swap the Logi Light weapon slot for a Sidearm slot. Anyone who disagrees only wants to keep their 3/4 Equipment slot Assault suit. Sidearms will allow the Logi to contribute to DPS without being a Slayer-logi. PLEASE Show us a vids when you go only with a side for al match, and let's see us HOW can you support. until then, STFU I don't own a capture card (and I'm sure as **** not buying one to appease you), but ALL I RUN IS SIDEARMS OR AV. So you can KMA too. Logi =/= Slayer, swap the Logi Light Weapon slot for a Sidearm slot. Hook your DVD burner up to your RCA outs and then back to the TV, it works for me and btw I want Video evidence. You can also use a cam corder or video camera attached to your computer but I want the vid. PS I know you can do this because you are on the forums and it is very rare for someone with a computer to not have a vid recording device, all laptops come with a built in and they are like $20 at walmart if not.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 132	Posted - 2013.06.19 01:28:00 - [17] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Jastad wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: If Logis only had a Sidearm slot instead of a light weapon slot, then they'd be just as useful for Support and no where near as capable as Assaults. Just swap the Logi Light weapon slot for a Sidearm slot. Anyone who disagrees only wants to keep their 3/4 Equipment slot Assault suit. Sidearms will allow the Logi to contribute to DPS without being a Slayer-logi. PLEASE Show us a vids when you go only with a side for al match, and let's see us HOW can you support. until then, STFU I don't own a capture card (and I'm sure as ** not buying one to appease you), but ALL I RUN IS SIDEARMS OR AV. So you can KMA too. Logi =/= Slayer, swap the Logi Light Weapon slot for a Sidearm slot. Hook your DVD burner up to your RCA outs and then back to the TV, it works for me and btw I want Video evidence. You can also use a cam corder or video camera attached to your computer but I want the vid. As if I need to prove ** to you. CCP can read the logs and see how I do, that is all that is needed. Logi do not need a light weapon, they'll do just fine with a Sidearm. I'll validate the idea if you post the footage, but seeing as how you are scared too I will record some tonight and show you why I think you are wrong. I won't use a side arm but a light weapon. And yes you do need to prove it.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 133	Posted - 2013.06.19 01:33:00 - [18] - Quote The "problem" is not there. Any suit can be used to hurt or heal other than the Heavy. The object of the game is customization not one size fits all. Deal with it or go back to COD/Killzone/SpecOps/BF4 or wherever else you came from.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 133	Posted - 2013.06.19 01:35:00 - [19] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: @Draco Cerberus No, actually, I need to prove nothing to you. I will not be bullied into thinking otherwise. And I won't be belittled into some stupid "role" classification that you think I need to be in just because I am a logi.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 133	Posted - 2013.06.19 01:50:00 - [20] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: @Draco Cerberus No, actually, I need to prove nothing to you. I will not be bullied into thinking otherwise. And I won't be belittled into some stupid "role" classification that you think I need to be in just because I am a logi. So, you're saying that you want to keep your slayer-logi? That is what I am hearing. Logi NEED to be most useful in a support role, not good for support but ABSO-*****-LUTELY BEAST for Assault setups just in the name of "Customization". BTW, Customization within Roles** is what the game is about, otherwise CCP would just give us T3 Heavys and be done with everything. You mis-read the description of the game plain and simple as well as having missed the trailer with the Heavy using a sniper rifle and plainly wouldn't understand why someone would fit a couple of tractor beams to a destroyer in Eve and float some salvage drones besides. I run support logi with an AR. I do on average 4-20-2 K-A-D. That is a support score not a slayer score Kitten.

Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 133	Posted - 2013.06.19 01:57:00 - [21] - Quote Then leave my light weapon alone. Leave the Cal Logi alone too, we each perform our roles in different ways, that is the beauty of the game. It is not based on restricting the weapons used but rather on enabling the user to choose the best way for them to be a valuable member of their team.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 139	Posted - 2013.06.19 12:44:00 - [22] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: To solve the Caldari Logi issue simply get this to happen: *the Caldari Logi's only handheld weapon is a Sidearm. A fit with this can still be effective against infantry to some extent. Don't tell it's bad, I ran Minmatar logi (look at that fat hitbox) before Uprising with only an SMG and could still beat strong players. Also, read the description of the Caldari logi to see why Sidearm only (with all the preposterous health) is actually acceptable. Why not with only a plasma cannon or MD? Comeon only one weapon is bad enough you seem to think that my million SP investment into light weapons should be taken away just because Tac ARs are still killing people.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 139	Posted - 2013.06.19 12:49:00 - [23] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Jastad wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: @Draco Cerberus No, actually, I need to prove nothing to you. I will not be bullied into thinking otherwise. No it's not being bullied. IT's called READ BEFORE POST. We all made a 9 page thread of answer. if you BOTHER to read, you'll see the all the LOGI are for a rework of the Cal.LOGI, the only e real problem. Because, and that are stat talking ( feel free to search COSGAR Thread or CROSS ATU reply in this thread) LOGI are inferior to their Ass counterpart. and again, stop counting what you do in pubscrub match, thta dosent count in balance terms. Jeez they did with the Heavy and look what we have now.... I still stand by my assertion that Logis can make due with just a Sidearm Slot. Also, so you know, I tried getting Heavys buffed (aside from their movement speed). A slow merc + short range = dead + broke + not supportive at all
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 139	Posted - 2013.06.19 12:52:00 - [24] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I use it with a MD that is **** up, so maybe that's why I don't think it's OP. I was using a MD, Plasma Cannon last night and still in a supporting role able to pull some nice points, higher than the assaults and blow up alot of tanks and LAVS. There is no need to be ****** about this, the restriction of weapons that a Logi can use would have me erase this game and petition to have my assets transferred to my eve character.