30-40% STFU

Don't change anything, flux grenades are devastating enough to shield-tankers. If I hear flux going off I have to run scared because my armor is so squishy. The assault bonus just isn't that good, and most people are carrying AV grenades to cope with murder taxis. Instead of making logistics suits worthless like the crybabies want, improve the assault class bonus.

I like the logistics suit and I can be a frontline attacker if I feel like it, GTFO.

You must be drunk, please go home.

If this were to happen I would drop my controller, delete Dust 514 and move on. You must have never played a logistics suit, if you did you would know that, aside from the CaLogi, we are extremely weak in the battlefield in terms of EHP and Mobility, and we can't defend ourselves well in 1v1 combat if we run out of ammo. No logistics suit can surpass its assault variant in terms of EHP and speed, except for the CaLogi, even with more PG and CPU, all it means is that we can use proto modules a little bit faster before we need CPU/PG skills but in the long run a assault suit is able to use all proto modules and a proto weapon, and have enough PG/CPU left for a nanohive.

@Jackal
Amarr LKogistics bonus increases survivability.

It's beacuse oh his high surv that we have very very few A-logi.
Dont make me laugh, if i want surv id better go gallente or minmatar. Amar logi is ALL about versatility.
People must stop watching numbers alone and TRY before speech about. If YOU do this, you will find that Amarr suit is usefull only at his AK0 (simply because is at proto lvl that you gain Side slot) and trade it with LACK of PG Vs other Logi but also vs amarr Ass.

Cosgar made a good topic, and show people that EXCEPT of CAL LOGI, all the others Logi are inferior to their ass counterpart.
So the only issue is the CAL Logi.
feel free to search Cosgar topic.


PS: following OP line of thinking why Ass are able to replenish or use equip, thats Logi work.So let's remove all equip slot from ASS suit....
This line show how wrong your ideas are

Amarr logis get 25% on already low numbers, if they were to use all their 3 low slots on armor reppers they only get 28.44 armor repair which is only 5 more repping than any other suit with 3 armor repairs. Also forcing somebody into a playstyle is no way to build a "sandbox" FPS, we are already constrained enough in this game as it is. Also I do acknowledge that there should be some role differences but cutting our damage, thus indirectly our survivability is no way to go. Why not just buff the damage of the assault suit by 10%? Oh wait here is a little fact you don't know, aside from the Caldari every assault suit can remove a shield for a Complex damage modifier and still have more EHP/Speed/Damage than its logistics variant.

Your right no suit should be able to play every single way, and thats why Logistics suits are relatively weaker, slower than a Assault suit, with less offensive capabilities.

Logistics should be bringing support. I think the disconnect here is that many of you think logistics means medic.

I bring proto uplinks (don't remember cost) and proto nanohives (2x @ 28,000 isk). My suit costs a LOT more than an assault.

This is truly a case of pandering to stupid people if they nerf logistics suits.

I wouldn't say that lesser HP and a slower movement speed equals greater survival. I don't really see an adjustment for survival in your initial post?

The same as pandering to the stupid people nerfing tanks that cost far more than your Logi Suit.

The point of this debate is that Logistics SHOULD be focused on support, with lessened combat effectiveness, but greater survival.

Reducing their HP would result in them being eliminated far too fast to be of any use in the short term. This coupled with the fact that they can effectively do the same damage as an Assault means they bring two positives to the field simultaneously.

You don't look to the Guys hold a Swarm to take out Infantry at long range, nor the guy with the Shotgun.

Lower their combat effectiveness somewhat, make them less apt to be combative, but just as (in some cases more) survivable, so they are more supportive.

I have something to say, regarding people saying logis are suppose to do this, assaults are suppose to do this, ok maybe there originally meant for that.... but the point of the game and the most unique part for that matter is being able to take a suit and then change it and customize to meet your needs and wants as a player. As soon as caladari heavies come out I may want a cal heavy with an assault rifle, who cares if there not suppose to use ar's, I can use the suit as w/e and in any way I want. So people quit fussing about an assault logi ffs, if you think there too good, then skill into them. Bottom line if the suits are made to only be able to run them or be effective in 1 way, for example logi being logi, well then there goes our unique one of a kind customization. The ability to be unique and diffrent in your customization, is my favorite part of this game, and truly makes it diffrent from all others. Dont encourage ccp to ruin the game plz, if you dont like it, play blk ops.

But this is not EVE, this is a High custom FPS ( wath e3 trailer, play your own war).
What you need to do in dust to gain sp il KILL people.

I think the Cal.logi need to be look at. BUT for the sake of god, leave other logi ALONE. no other logi is OP

Well a big change like the one you suggest should come with a skill respec, because nobody will want to use a Logistics suits if they are made any weaker than they already are.

I chose APPLES but I got PEARS instead because they were out of APPLES. Not something I would have called a CHOICE.

Why are we still talking about a NERF? A quick glance over this thread would say enough if you ask me.

I thought we were talking about your idea to change logis to a useless dropsuit and that the current logis should just embrace that change.

Last time I saw LAVs mostly rack up skills by using their bumpers. Talking about turret-damage is stupid at this point and LLAVS gets other bonuses too, does that mean we get them too?

What about all the LLAVS are OP threads? Do they count? Why base a "balance" on something else that is" not balanced"?

The same as pandering to the stupid people nerfing tanks that cost far more than your Logi Suit.

The point of this debate is that Logistics SHOULD be focused on support, with lessened combat effectiveness, but greater survival.

Reducing their HP would result in them being eliminated far too fast to be of any use in the short term. This coupled with the fact that they can effectively do the same damage as an Assault means they bring two positives to the field simultaneously.

You don't look to the Guys hold a Swarm to take out Infantry at long range, nor the guy with the Shotgun.

Lower their combat effectiveness somewhat, make them less apt to be combative, but just as (in some cases more) survivable, so they are more supportive.

I see both LLAVs and logis killing people.
I don't see LLAVs supporting infantry or vehicles, I do see logis repping them both.
We should discuss LLAVs so they do more support too then.

If you want to discuss a possible solution then there should be a clear PROBLEM to begin with, maybe I missed it?

Main point guys... pick the role and suit you want based on the base attributes, slots, and bonuses...then do w/e you want to do with it. Thats the great part of customization. So if I wanna speed up on you with a heavy, or mow you down with a logi guess what thats how I customized and thats what this game allows.....do not mess this up ccp please... for all you do not like these facts leave dust already.


p.s. And to you black.....thats the point it dosnt start with picking a role... not in this game. You dont have to pick an assault suit to run assault... this is not eve.....if you dont like it play eve or go back to blk ops. Dust514 should stay as it is...hopefully people realize what really makes this game one of a kind....and do not encourage ccp to ruin it.

To The Black Jackal, guy you are facing a loosing battle and whoever you have supporting you they to are loosing this topic. Eldest Dragon probably said it the best, when you have a fps no matter the format you make the best class that gets the job done, it doesnt matter what you can do or not do in eve.....plain and simple. i bet if they come out with the "commando" class you will b***h about it being unfair/op or whatever you would call it? basically all im hearing from you is that you realized you spec'd wrong after you noticed this isnt a normal fps, and all i have to say to that is.....sucks to be you, or you can adapt to the game play and overcome.

So why are you trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Only cal logi needs a fix. You people get dumber every day with your "solutions"

It seems highly unlikely that you play support as a primary consider your presentation of what "is not tied to logistics" above.
Buffer HP becomes more important for basic survival the slower the suit in question and Logi are slower than everything out there this side of the Heavy frame.
I would be very interested in a specific definition form you regarding what you consider "logistics" to mean since you've eliminated dealing damage, taking damage or possibly hacking from the pool are logi only supposed to carry equipment and provide no functional value aside from that?

Also of note, I've run numbers on this due to a discussion in another thread an the Gallente racial buff that you mention, the fitting req savings for Equipment? It is less valuable than the current base logi role buff of 5 HP/s self rep on armor. From a fittings perspective is provides an enhancement of available PG/CPU above the cost of a complex repper which is less than the value of 1 level in Electronics or Engineering. And it does this at a considerable investment of SP.

Put more bluntly the one racial logi bonus which you have said is acceptable is by far the least valuable of all the skills present. It in fact provides less overall utility than the basic fittings skills.

Speaking as a full support Logi since closed beta here are the effects of your example ideas

- Improved Rep tool use (Increases repping done by tool)
Until CCP alters the WP mechanics for repair tools this is a nerf to Logi earnings. This will provide more HP/s in reps it's true, and that does have tactical value however the tactical merit combined with the depression in earnings will push logi even further into running only basic or militia gear as the 'risk vs reward' will not make it worth while to do otherwise.
More info on that here

- Greater nanohive Capacity (More nanite 'cluster's per Nanhive)
This could actually be incredibly useful, I'd personally really consider running a suit with this buff. The major drawbacks being that so would every assault player who hates running out of ammo or loves armor repairing hives. Nanohives aren't the most used equipment by such a wide margin because support logi are stacking multiplies of them on our suits
The other drawback is that this once again causes reduced incentive to skill into, buy or use upper meta gear. CCP has a cool down on WP earnings from hives thus limiting how much 'reward' they can provide while the 'risk' remains constant, thus a skill like this simply provides incentive for the logi to save on costs (SP, ISK, and CPU/PG) by simply using a lessor grade of hive.

- Improved Nanite Injector Radius (Should be in most anyway... but logis can 'revive' from further away so you don't need to stand exactly on top of the person)
I firmly believe the revive radius needs a bit of a size increase, and I believe it should be game wide. Setting that aside however I love this one, it would provide some real utility to a logi by helping them to support their team while not being insta-gibbed by hostile forces. Balance might be tricky but then again balance always is. If you put up a thread suggesting this please let me know as I'd be happy to give it a +1


In closing I'd like to renew my request for you to post any and all fittings that you believe support the concept that logi need a change. So far everything I've encountered suggests to me that the only two problems in the Logi line are the Amarr suit having underpowered PG and the Caldari suit racial skill being slightly overpowered. You are suggesting that changes need to be made game wide which requires game wide examples to support it (non-anecdotal/subjective ones).

Cheers,
Cross

Yea no , how about we nerf your forum capabilities for a while, give you a little cooldown ....crazy

I absolutely love the 5 hp/s. Does it make the suit overpowered? I don't think so. In short fights it doesn't make any real difference - maybe an extra 2 shots from an AR to take me down. In long fights it definitely has it's advantages. This bonus saved me from dying in a firefight twice tonight and only when I was using a prototype suit with 750 eHP(my other suits didn't have enough HP to last long enough to do enough damage with the mass driver - especially vs prototype weapons). This may become overpowered with the new armor modules coming but we will have to wait and see.


I would also note that my hacking bonus on my Minmatar logistics suit is awesome when you get to use it. Being behind most other suits means you don't get to use it as often as you would like. Again, the new armor modules will likely make a difference but only for Minmatar as they are the fastest logi suits(which is why I chose it - same speed as most assaults but it's lost due to having to armor tank).

Having corrected my error I need to reiterate however that stripping buffer and rep/regen from Logi suits will make them less support capable and oriented not more. With less non-aggressive survival methods available more logi will spend time fighting rather than directly engaged in support actions. If you can't body shield your fallen squad mate while you revive and repair him you'll spent time shooting the enemy and your squad mate is more likely to bleed out before you get to him. If your squad mate is dead/respawns his ammo is refreshed and he won't be needing those hives so often. With fewer WPs coming in from Equip slots and both earnings & survival based on killing the motivation to skill into or fit and field support gear is diminished because both it's tactical application and it's potential rewards have been diminished.

I have to disagree with these numbers, the initial ones at least

Amarr Logistics
eHP: After Change - 843 Before Change - 934

Minmatar
eHP: After Change - 698 Before Change - 698

Caldari
eHP: After Change - 736 Before Change - 736

Gallente
eHP: After Change - 733 Before Change - 733

Values based on Prototype 'max tank' builds.

I believe these should be the proper values, the Amarr trade off a hefty amount of speed and module slots for high base HP and a side arm, they should have the highest EHP not the Caldari. The Minmatar trade off HP for speed, and an extra equipment slot so they should have the lowest HP. The Gallente trade off a high slot, for an extra equipment but they do not have the versatility or speed of a Minmatar so their HP should be higher, and the Caldari well they are the Caldari and CCP will always favor them not much to say, but although I switched them to have their HP almost the same as the Gallente it should be a bit higher; but not higher than the Amarr who make a big sacrifice, in speed and versatility and yet they currently have the 3rd lowest EHP.

On the second part of your thread, a repair tool bonus for the Amarr is not as good as you think, a repair tool is rather useless in active battle and it is best used to heal-as-you-go, or when reviving your teammates. When it comes to active battle the only person that you should depend on is yourself, specially when armor tanking.