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Stile451
Red Star.
EoN.
92
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Posted - 2013.06.17 18:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
A sidearm is a wonderful slot to have. If you've ever played without one with a weapon that has a small amount of rounds then you will know this. I have died countless times because my mass driver is reloading for what seems like 5 seconds(probably closer to 3 - I can't find the spreadsheet that was put out so if anyone has a link I would appreciate it) while the enemy simply switches to a sidearm and kills me. Giving up a sidearm slot is not giving up nothing it is a huge detriment to the logistics class.
If the logistics were to have their light weapon slot taken away then the support weapons would need to change class as well - any weapon that can't be used exclusively to win a match(basically leaving only scrambler rifles and assault rifles as the only light weapons).
But hey if we're discussing overreaching nerfs then how about these:
-Assaults should only get half of the ammo capacity and lose the equipment slot - because assault suits kill me with bullets - what the hell make assault and screambler rifles shoot nerf darts as well.
-Scouts should lose the equipment slot as well and make siren noises when they move - because scouts kill me by sneaking up on me or use remote explosives.
-Heavies have already been nerfed so nothing needs to be done, although making tuba noises when they walk would be funny.
-Dropships should only be able to equip a sidearm in their weapon slots and send to the pilot to a random seat every 30 seconds switching with player who has crashed the most dropships if no seat is available - because dropships hover out of range and shoot at me, then when they realize they can't kill me try to crush me
-LAVs should only be able to move backwards and have a fixed front facing view with tunnel vision - the reason should be obvious
-HAVs should have fixed turrets(no elevation or turning) and not be able to activate more than one module at a time and will have to wait until all modules are ready for use before they can use them - because when a tank can see me it can kill me fairly easily and using modules gives them an unfair advantage over me with the basic swarm launcher and packed av grenades.
Vin Mora wrote:How about giving all other suit more Equipment Slots, instead?
They are all faster, except for Heavies, and more durable then us, except for Scouts, and all can kill better then use with a sidearm.
Also, Logis are the only class that can (properly) defend itself when running A/V weapons.
The other classes don't need an extra equipment slot and would only lead to people complaining about the obscene amounts of remote explosives and proximity mines left laying about,
Logis are the only class not able to defend themselves against infantry if they're running as anti-vehicle(which I assume you mean swarm launcher because anyone can carry av grnades). |
Stile451
Red Star.
EoN.
92
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Posted - 2013.06.18 06:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Flint Beastgood III wrote:Jammer Jalapeno wrote:
....quite often I will have to fight off a pack of people just to revive a squad member. I need to bite just as hard as the rest.
Oh yea and BTW I only get 1 weapon.... I don't have the luxury of switching to a side arm when my bullets run out.
Yep. You're no good as support if you're dead on the floor - a problem I constantly face in my Logi G/1 fittings, which are extremely expensive to fit if I want to be able to survive as well as support. I don't even want to skill up into the Proto Logi, as I don't see the point of it's use in pub matches ( because the risk/reward doesn't balance out) and unfortunately I do not meet the minimum SP requirements of my Corp for PC battles.
The 2 extra HP/s is worth it imo. You don't need to use the proto suit to reap the rewards of the skill. Also, one day you will want it and it's one of the harder skills to grind for - get it sooner rather than later to get it out of the way. |
Stile451
Red Star.
EoN.
93
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Posted - 2013.06.19 16:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_medic
Seeing as there is no Geneva Convention in Dust(or anything similar at all) I need my light weapon(and before you start in on this saying my AR is a crutch my mass driver says hi).
If there's anything that would ruin the logistics role for most logistics players it would be the loss of the light weapon slot. This would cause me to either move in front of the assault characters in order to help with combat or become completely useless in a combat role.
Making me use all of the equipment slots would impact my survivability.
Lowering cpu and pg and making equipment dirt cheap wouldn't make as big of a difference as you would think. |
Stile451
Red Star.
EoN.
93
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Posted - 2013.06.19 20:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:I don't view myself as a statistical outlier. I am in no way shape or form an "elite gun game" player. I still do just fine running with Sidearms only. It is all about being smart about your choices, deciding when to engage and when to flee. The only Light Weapons I've spec'd into at all are Swarms for AV and Sniper Rifles for countersniping.
Give Logis a "Logi Weapon Slot".
Your definition of "just fine" vs my definition of "just fine" are likely different. I would add you as a contact and take a look at your stats on the contacts leaderboards but chances are they're going to be screwed up again.
I would be fine with a logi weapon slot, but you are still going to alienate true logis that aren't combat able without an AR. However, this still doesn't address the Caldari logistics suit being the only suit with issues due to it's racial bonus(I just spent 45 minutes trying to create a better Minmatar logistics suit than I could make with a Minmatar assault suit and failed to get an equivalent).
Edit: lots of posts between, more reading I guess. |
Stile451
Red Star.
EoN.
95
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Posted - 2013.06.26 16:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
That wouldn't affect the Caldari logi shield tank all that much(the only reason this thread exists). |
Stile451
Red Star.
EoN.
96
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Posted - 2013.06.28 07:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
I absolutely love the 5 hp/s. Does it make the suit overpowered? I don't think so. In short fights it doesn't make any real difference - maybe an extra 2 shots from an AR to take me down. In long fights it definitely has it's advantages. This bonus saved me from dying in a firefight twice tonight and only when I was using a prototype suit with 750 eHP(my other suits didn't have enough HP to last long enough to do enough damage with the mass driver - especially vs prototype weapons). This may become overpowered with the new armor modules coming but we will have to wait and see.
I would also note that my hacking bonus on my Minmatar logistics suit is awesome when you get to use it. Being behind most other suits means you don't get to use it as often as you would like. Again, the new armor modules will likely make a difference but only for Minmatar as they are the fastest logi suits(which is why I chose it - same speed as most assaults but it's lost due to having to armor tank). |
Stile451
Red Star.
EoN.
96
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Posted - 2013.06.28 19:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:It's not enough to keep you alive in a firefight with even a single opponent, but it is enough to keep you alive while staying behind your squad and cover focused on playing support.
It did so once last night with me vs a heavy machine gunner one vs one but it required a few additional things which if I didn't have would have had me die instead.
1. I used a flux grenade to strip him of his shields.
2. I used cover to recover some shields and armor when I was low.
3. The heavy was outside his effective range when we started fighting(this allowed me to reload half way through and meant he didn't hit me for as much damage initially).
4. The terrain was slightly in my advantage.
5. The mass driver does more damage vs armor.
6. I was using a proto suit with a prototype weapon, 4x complex shield extenders and 3x basic armor plates.
7. I was at full health when we started(so was he though).
8. I have extensive experience using my weapon and the strategies that are required for using it to it's fullest.
If I had been hit with 2 more HMG rounds I would have been dead. I regenerated about 40 armor over the fight(lasted about 15 seconds - kept shields until halfway through). I had to hide for 30 seconds to regenerate shields and some armor - the heavy was back in the game before I was.
The HP repair bonus does help, but it requires a very specific set of circumstances to be useful in a fight(standing on a repairing nanohive gives you more repairs).
The repairs are much more powerful between fights and only over a long period of time. This is what should be examined in order to see if the bonus is overpowered.
I believe it's not for a few reasons:
1. You need to stay outside of fights for this to be a great benefit.
2. Shields regenerate much faster(my armor was only a quarter healed by the time my shields were healed after the above fight).
3. In order to take advantage of the armor healing capabilities you need to armor tank making you lose speed, which in turn makes you an easier target. |
Stile451
Red Star.
EoN.
98
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Posted - 2013.06.29 06:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Minmatar has far more armor than shields. A speed bonus might be something to think about but the armor repair is more useful to all logistics suits aside from maybe Caldari(nearly all true logistics players run an armor tank of some sort). |
Stile451
Red Star.
EoN.
102
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Posted - 2013.07.01 17:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Base logistics bonuses should be focused on survivability or useful support bonuses.
A bonus to nanohives isn't that great of an option as a racial suit bonus, but expanding the idea for the logistics suit bonus to include all equipment would be alright(3-5% efficacy per level, no change to fitting requirements). For example:
Using Militia Equipment
- A repair tool would do 28.75 HP/s(31.25 HP/s @25%)(reg. 25 HP/s)
- A drop uplink would have 12 spawns(13 @25%)(reg. 10) with no spawn time adjustments
- A nanohive would have 41 clusters(45 @25%)(reg. 36) and resupply at a rate of 8.6% of your total ammo(9.4% @25%)(reg. 7.5%)
- The injector would revive you with 34.5% of your armor(37.5% @25%)(reg. 30%).
Using prototype items
- A repair tool would do 40.25 HP/s(43.75 HP/s @25%)(reg. 35 HP/s)
- A drop uplink would have 29 spawns(31 @25%)(reg. 25) with -57.5% spawn time modifier(-62.5% @25%)(reg-50%)
- A nanohive would have 83 clusters(90 @25%)(reg. 72) and resupply at a rate of 34.5% of your total ammo(37.5% @25%)(reg. 30%)
- The injector would revive you with 92% of your armor(100% @25%)(reg. 80%).
Active scanners could be buffed as well in a similar manner(range, precision, scan time, duration and angle), as well as remote and proximity explosives by buffing the number of active(basically +1 to all @25%(+2 to one), +1 to most @15% with 2 getting no bonus) and maybe buffing the damage(I can't find the numbers to see if it would be OP).
That was for the overall logistics benefit, for individual suits combinations of the below:
Hacking speed
Suit speed(walk and sprint)
Shield regeneration(both time and amount)
Stamina amount and regeneration
Deploy speed(hives, uplinks, explosives) - this would need to be only part of a racial bonus.
Armor penalty reduction(5 or 10% per level eg. for a complex plate that gives 10% speed reduction @ skill level 5 the reduction would be at 7.5%(5% @10%).
Some of these above ideas I don't really like, and I still prefer the HP regeneration over equipment efficacy(yet more skill point needed in a skill point heavy class plus the loss of a low slot) but if it must be changed what I put above is a decent option. |
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