That idea is incredibly stupid.
Heavies have limits, just like everything else; the limit with heavies is that they depend on a dedicated logibro, or else they'll run out of ammo and low on their hard-to-repair armor.
What does this mean? In order for say, 5 heavies to be effective, there needs to be 5 logis. That's 10 players focusing on supporting the slow moving death machines, and therefore 10 players who can't quickly react to anything, or have much versatility.

The vehicle limit is to prevent spam and creation of starter-fit roadblocks. Heavies shouldn't be limited because using too many is already a penalty.

Really? 5 heavies on a team would be ineffective unless they each had their own logistic player dedicated to healing them and providing them ammo for their 1000+ round machine guns? Do you really believe that?

People love to pull out the "heavies are supposed to be infantry tanks and that's why their ridiculous HMG combined with their insane health is somehow justified" argument.

Ok, if heavies are tanks then why can you have as many heavies as you want out on the field yet you can't have out more than a few HAVs?

If heavies are tanks, then a strict limit should be placed on the number of heavy dropsuits a team can have out at once or use up in a game. If CCP does this, then the "heavies are suppose to be tanks" argument would actually have some ground to stand on.

If they don't, then they will forever just be an overpowered and annoying gimmicky assault class on steroids that doesn't belong in this game until they get a nerf.

People love to pull out the "heavies are supposed to be infantry tanks and that's why their ridiculous HMG combined with their insane health is somehow justified" argument.

Ok, if heavies are tanks then why can you have as many heavies as you want out on the field yet you can't have out more than a few HAVs?

If heavies are tanks, then a strict limit should be placed on the number of heavy dropsuits a team can have out at once or use up in a game. If CCP does this, then the "heavies are suppose to be tanks" argument would actually have some ground to stand on.

If they don't, then they will forever just be an overpowered and annoying gimmicky assault class on steroids that doesn't belong in this game until they get a nerf.

Yep.
What's the problem? You got your ass kicked by a heavy squad?

HMG is the most underwhelming weapon system bar the nova knife I've come across so far.

Problem is people are approaching heavies like they are just another soldier. Fact is if you see a heavy in the area and you don't have a good amount of teammates with you then you need to get out of the area. Even if you're targeting someone else, if there's a heavy just forget him and leave.

Have you ever played as a heavy? They are extremely slow and can't track well at all. A few rounds ago I ran into a heavy while my squad was back at a different base, I just toyed with for awhile until my squad arrived to back me up. And by toyed I mean ran circles around him.

This is one of the worst idea's i've ever heard, why on earth would you limit the number of one type of dropsuit. Heavy's are slow and HMG gunners are most effective at CQC. Contrary to what you say heavies aren't overpowered, people are just using the wrong approach against them. As has been repeatedly stated in every nerf heavy thread, you take a heavy on head on expect to die.
why do you want to limit a dropsuit for doing it's job? Should we limit the number of assault suit's in a match because everyone uses them and their users are responsible for the majority of the kills in the game?

Why don't we limit the AR guys to 3 then?

In dust we have a thing known as roles and these roles have a rock paper scissors relationship. HMG beats AR at close range, AR beats HMG at medium range, sniper/LR beats AR at long range and so on in all their variations, this isn't a twitch shooter where everyone is on a level field, this is very much a right tool for the right job game.
Honestly what is it with you people who think assault should be the sole dropsuit in this game

In dust we have a thing known as roles and these roles have a rock paper scissors relationship. HMG beats AR at close range, AR beats HMG at medium range, sniper/LR beats AR at long range and so on in all their variations, this isn't a twitch shooter where everyone is on a level field, this is very much a right tool for the right job game.
Honestly what is it with you people who think assault should be the sole dropsuit in this game

HMG's are actually broken. Currently they are functioning much more like an LMG which once again proves as to why CCP has no idea what they are doing in regards to weapons.

Currently by pressing R1 the HMG begins to fire which is ridiculous.

The Death machine in COD has to spin up before it begins to fire
The Wraith in Resistance 2 has to spin up before firing.

Real multi-barrel guns don't have almost no spin up time currently, so I don't know where you're going with this argument. Especially since the races in DUST have had something like 10,000 years to refine the formula.

To the OP, you want to know how to kill a Heavy? Get behind him.

So... are you dumb on purpose?
Rock paper scissor rules:
rock beats scissor
scissor beats paper
paper beats rock

Dust imbalance rules:
HMG beats AR
HMG beats sniper
HMG beats HMG
HMG beats every class
AR beats sniper
AR beats AR
snipers beat militia nubes
miltia nubes beat snipers

This rock paper scissor system that this game is said to have is nonexistent and ludicrous.
Wake up.

HMG's are actually broken. Currently they are functioning much more like an LMG which once again proves as to why CCP has no idea what they are doing in regards to weapons.

Currently by pressing R1 the HMG begins to fire which is ridiculous.

The Death machine in COD has to spin up before it begins to fire
The Wraith in Resistance 2 has to spin up before firing.

Then they turn around and kill you before you kill them

And then what happens if you're not behind them? Oh wait you die, with absolutely no counterplay. That's bad game design.

Mass drivers are your friends sir. Hold range, lob grenades at them, and they go down fast enough. As people have said, it's about tools, and situation. If you get in a favorable position, the heavy dies every time. If the heavy gets you in a favorable position for him, you die every time. it's the way of the world.

So... are you dumb on purpose?
Rock paper scissor rules:
rock beats scissor
scissor beats paper
paper beats rock

Dust imbalance rules:
HMG beats AR
HMG beats sniper
HMG beats HMG
HMG beats every class
AR beats sniper
AR beats AR
snipers beat militia nubes
miltia nubes beat snipers

This rock paper scissor system that this game is said to have is nonexistent and ludicrous.
Wake up.

The Heavy itself is not the problem, it's the damn guns, why do they have so much range? Anyone who wants to BS me with "it's only effective from close quarters" can stfu right now. I got so many clips of me dying to a heavy half way across the map, Heavy's camping on roof's or bridges and killing people on the ground from the sky, wtf is that? "Just run away and take cover" I can't dodge 1000 bullets

Decrease the range and the Heavy will no longer be a topic of discussion.

Also lol at the sudden group of imperfects insisting everything but their ARs are OP.

I believe their goal is to make this game call of duty with health.

Literally every suit strafes faster than a heavy can track.

What happens if you're not behind him? You've entered his kill zone, just like any other suit you accidentally wander onto. That's like complaining that you didn't check a corner and got blapped by a shotgun.

Not all of us are stupid. You'll notice that I've called the heavies and HMG as fine.

No they can't. You turn and aim just as fast in a heavy suit as in any other suit.

Except if you accidentally wander into the field of view of any other suit you can still win a gunfight. Against a heavy there's nothing you can do.

No they can't. You turn and aim just as fast in a heavy suit as in any other suit.

Except if you accidentally wander into the field of view of any other suit you can still win a gunfight. Against a heavy there's nothing you can do.

I love scubs who spec heavy and call it fine. Lol that's like op missiles guys saying that missiles are fine

Maybe because I'm using a mouse, but the other suits are by far and away alot faster at turning. The heavy can track well though, but that depends on range.

Claiming that there is nothing that can be done against heavies is pretty out there though. I see heavies get mowed down all the time.

Nope sorry but no.
Theres plenty of fights where I am in my scout SMG build versus heavy HMG and the heavy dies due to tracking issues.
I.e. a very small object container about 1m by 1 m separates the two and its just dead heavy even in CQC.

I've never specced into heavies (although I have a militia forge for emergencies)- I've never had a huge problem fighting them.

All these people that qq about heavies have a Kdr above 4.5. I mean really! You die once maybe twice a match to a heavy but you kill
At a 4.5 to 10 kdr

Seriously guys admit it you want AR only game. The one death you get in a match is a heavy and its too powerful nerf it.lol
Seriusly HTFU

Idk, when I tried heavy I didn't really notice a difference. It might be slower but the point is that it's generally not a detriment.

The point in this situation is that as an assault against a heavy, with equal gun-skill and comparable gear, in an optimal situation, the heavy still has decent potential to turn the fight around. But on the opposite side, with an optimal situation for the heavy, the assault is basically screwed.

Heavies as a suit is fine but the hmg is not. The vehicles were fine but the missiles were not

So because someone your opponent is a bad player means the suit is balanced? lolok.

Idk, when I tried heavy I didn't really notice a difference. It might be slower but the point is that it's generally not a detriment.

The point in this situation is that as an assault against a heavy, with equal gun-skill and comparable gear, in an optimal situation, the heavy still has decent potential to turn the fight around. But on the opposite side, with an optimal situation for the heavy, the assault is basically screwed.

However, it's much easier for the assault to avoid fighting a heavy under the heavy's optimal conditions, and also easier for the assault to get into the optimal conditions for fighting the heavy.

You could also say:

So because someone your opponent is a great player means the suit is OP? lolok.

Just saying.

If the heavy can't slam dunk a face to face encounter, why even have it in the game?

Running away doesn't solve anything. In ambush, you can do it, but when you get into objective based modes then running really doesn't solve anything. And the assault really can't get optimal conditions that much easier, and even then it doesn't provide that much advantage so it doesn't really matter.



Hard to see if a heavy is a good player because the suit is so faceroll easy to use. idk I always get butthurt about heavies in every game.

Running away doesn't solve anything. In ambush, you can do it, but when you get into objective based modes then running really doesn't solve anything. And the assault really can't get optimal conditions that much easier, and even then it doesn't provide that much advantage so it doesn't really matter.



Hard to see if a heavy is a good player because the suit is so faceroll easy to use. idk I always get butthurt about heavies in every game.

That idea is incredibly stupid.
Heavies have limits, just like everything else; the limit with heavies is that they depend on a dedicated logibro, or else they'll run out of ammo and low on their hard-to-repair armor.
What does this mean? In order for say, 5 heavies to be effective, there needs to be 5 logis. That's 10 players focusing on supporting the slow moving death machines, and therefore 10 players who can't quickly react to anything, or have much versatility.

Not all of us are stupid. You'll notice that I've called the heavies and HMG as fine.

You forget there is a B-Type suit with more shields, you can bump that thing up easy to 400-500 shields, then theres still 500-600 armor. I can get up to 29-0 with my assault rifle, almost done speccing heavy for a try out run, lets see if i can beat my 29-0 score with it.

How about this: There should be a windup before you shoot the HMG, and a small decrease in damage (NOT SAYING NERF OR COMPLAINING).

29-0 is a bad game for any good player

The problem is that while they should have an advantage in a head to head encounter they have too much of an advantage. Right now it's basically 9/10 in favor of the heavy in any situation, when it should be 6/10 or 7/10 against equally skilled and specced opponents.

For the stock Assault rifle and a raven assault suit with militia fits, no no i dont think it is...
i rarely see any imperfects above me, unless they are a dedicated 4 man squad and even then its a rare sight, and for me i roll solo man, no support.

So no idea what your smoking man (xprotoman23)

Since all suits are going to be given a heavy, light, and side arm slot

Source?

Heavies are..... heavies. They are what they should be. Saying they are broken is complete nonsense. I am a heavy, and i can say that AR'S are by far the number one fatality of any heavy. Range is your best friend so use it. What most people don't know is that the GOOD heavy players don't play like a walking tank. We are overweight ninjas in metal suits, exmaple core, myself, mark burkhart, tuff tone, captian awesome these heavies know how to play the heavy. It takes more skill then most people realise, in a game dominated by ranged weapons and fast movement we are an archaich gargantuan target for all you little fairies to shoot at.

This is the most amusing post so far.

I forgot dust only has 3 weapons, and HMG's beat snipers. I'm not sure what game every one else is playing but I see damage modded Gek's drop heavies within the disputed close - mid range on a regular basis.

Not saying the HMG couldn't use some work, it certainly could use some kind of adjustment range, spool up, heat, any one of these would probably do it.

Heavies are..... heavies. They are what they should be. Saying they are broken is complete nonsense. I am a heavy, and i can say that AR'S are by far the number one fatality of any heavy. Range is your best friend so use it. What most people don't know is that the GOOD heavy players don't play like a walking tank. We are overweight ninjas in metal suits, exmaple core, myself, mark burkhart, tuff tone, captian awesome these heavies know how to play the heavy. It takes more skill then most people realise, in a game dominated by ranged weapons and fast movement we are an archaich gargantuan target for all you little fairies to shoot at.

Mostly true zitro mostly. If you know what you are doing, and now how to play a heavy you can build a solo heavy. Their is no shortage of nano's or supply depots sitting around each map. If you skill properly you can have your armor repping on a type 2 pretty darn fast, and even faster on a b series. 30 seconds of HP regen will bring me from 125 to about 400. with 420 shields that is enough for me to re engage and probably win most fights. Now granted having a logi is awesome, and it makes it much easier a GOOD heavy does not NEED one. We can be as self sufficient as any other class if you know what skills you need and how to play.

I'm not talking about OMS ambush ( one way a Heavy can play solo or get half smart blues) other than that besides dying ammo dries up. With my heavy I die maybe once every game( normally ammo) and get like 15-19 kills. And trust me when I say I know how to spec a suit/ vehicle. Your idea of a good heavy is what exactly? A heavy is mean to be a defender and the way I use it makes it seem like a fortress

Uhm... doesn't that mean it's doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing?

Yeah cause dying with a expensive heavy trying to be an assault guy is the right way to do and then QQ about prices. Tell me how you use a heavy?

In dust we have a thing known as roles and these roles have a rock paper scissors relationship. HMG beats AR at close range, AR beats HMG at medium range, sniper/LR beats AR at long range and so on in all their variations, this isn't a twitch shooter where everyone is on a level field, this is very much a right tool for the right job game.
Honestly what is it with you people who think assault should be the sole dropsuit in this game

The HMG beats AR at medium range

Eight pages of this tripe? Is the idea of not going 1v1 with a Heavy in your Assault suit just that hard a concept to understand? Also, for anyone that wants there to be a long spinup time before you can fire an HMG, why do you think not many people use the Mini Chain Gun in Planetside 2, and the ones that do have ****** KDRs? You put a long spinup on that thing, and it'll go straight to useless, and then everything is screwed up again.

Just leave it alone. Flank the damn Heavy.

only works if said heavy is not aware of said flank and even then your still in a 1v1 scenario. You want to kill heavies? Use your range to kill them before they reach you problem solved.

And attack them with superior numbers, which I thought was implied in my statement of flanking, but I'll further clarify that. This game is built around working together, so DO IT.

Yes this could work..... but i hope your "superior numbers" are extremely good.... because if not they will most likely die and then you are stuck again with a 1v1 scenario. Facing a full squad as a heavy is not difficult if you play it right, unless your facing 4 duvolls wiht 50% dmg buffs then the heavy is screwed hard.

Now facing a heavy with a full squad, while 1 or 2 members chip at him from outside his range, that is a win almost every time. I can say that is what kills me more than anything else. Oh and laser rifles.........

Can't wait to spec back into Laser Rifles when I get another PS3, espescially if they make them do bonus damage based on time on target rather than time spent firing. That'll just make them even better for me.

Real multi-barrel guns don't have almost no spin up time currently, so I don't know where you're going with this argument. Especially since the races in DUST have had something like 10,000 years to refine the formula.

To the OP, you want to know how to kill a Heavy? Get behind him.

Actually mini-guns or multi-barrel machine guns don't have a spool up time, they fire as soon as you hit the trigger or press the button. All you have is a slight increase in ROF as it approaches full spin, but if fires the first bullet near instantly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_oEgkiJ8m4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykb3Is3Dsmw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=iAw82h-IhdQ&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18G5ycZf-rc

So does no one realize that you have to use up almost an entire mag before the HMG is any where near accurate at range?

Also you have to use skill points to get that range and most with range the same as ARs are fully specd and using Assualt HMGs.




If anything the Heavy needs a buff in to the Higher Teir Dropsuits. Has anyone used a Heavy? or looked at how bad Proto suits are for heavys?



Play smarter

People love to pull out the "heavies are supposed to be infantry tanks and that's why their ridiculous HMG combined with their insane health is somehow justified" argument.

Ok, if heavies are tanks then why can you have as many heavies as you want out on the field yet you can't have out more than a few HAVs?

If heavies are tanks, then a strict limit should be placed on the number of heavy dropsuits a team can have out at once or use up in a game. If CCP does this, then the "heavies are suppose to be tanks" argument would actually have some ground to stand on.

If they don't, then they will forever just be an overpowered and annoying gimmicky assault class on steroids that doesn't belong in this game until they get a nerf.

Edit: Allow me to be more specific. The heavy dropsuit itself, despite currently being an annoying gimmick, is for the most part fine. It's the HMG that makes this class so ridiculous.

I think we have beaten this particular horse to death..... heavies are not OP.

learn to strafe.
use distance.
do not 1v1.
stop sucking and work on your gun game.
and most importantly learn which heavies are good and use teamwork on them.

Yet back in the day before AR's were nerfed and teams were completely randomized I held down somewhere around an 18.5 KDR with no team or support what so ever. Yeah going 29-0 is easy in this game with the ******** players

I'm glad I read this thread, such sweet sweet tears.

People love to pull out the "heavies are supposed to be infantry tanks and that's why their ridiculous HMG combined with their insane health is somehow justified" argument.

Ok, if heavies are tanks then why can you have as many heavies as you want out on the field yet you can't have out more than a few HAVs?

If heavies are tanks, then a strict limit should be placed on the number of heavy dropsuits a team can have out at once or use up in a game. If CCP does this, then the "heavies are suppose to be tanks" argument would actually have some ground to stand on.

If they don't, then they will forever just be an overpowered and annoying gimmicky assault class on steroids that doesn't belong in this game until they get a nerf.

Edit: Allow me to be more specific. The heavy dropsuit itself, despite currently being an annoying gimmick, is for the most part fine. It's the HMG that makes this class so ridiculous.

People love to pull out the "heavies are supposed to be infantry tanks and that's why their ridiculous HMG combined with their insane health is somehow justified" argument.

Ok, if heavies are tanks then why can you have as many heavies as you want out on the field yet you can't have out more than a few HAVs?

If heavies are tanks, then a strict limit should be placed on the number of heavy dropsuits a team can have out at once or use up in a game. If CCP does this, then the "heavies are suppose to be tanks" argument would actually have some ground to stand on.

If they don't, then they will forever just be an overpowered and annoying gimmicky assault class on steroids that doesn't belong in this game until they get a nerf.

Edit: Allow me to be more specific. The heavy dropsuit itself, despite currently being an annoying gimmick, is for the most part fine. It's the HMG that makes this class so ridiculous.

The Heavies are fine, IMO. You see a lot of "elite" players complain because they are unable to go toe-to-toe with a heavy and win at point blank range... so they want a nerf because all FPS's in the past they could find their godmode class and rule everybody all the time. They want to change DUST to be the same. A Heavy has so many shortcomings it can be ridiculously not fun except for situational use (defending), etc...

I Absolutely love that there are Variations to this game... and feel the Heavy is right where it needs to be.

The problem is there is no proper counter for heavies. I talked to taste about it and the only real counters are nades and ARs from long range. This is not a proper counter. With strafe speed nerfed scouts are pretty much useless against heavies.

Tactics should not be the only counter against heavies. There needs to be a class that counters heavies properly.

Sniper counters a heavy,
Laser counters a heavy,
Tank counters a heavy,
AR counters a heavy
Shotgun scout counters a heavy....

Those are all weapons. How come there is a counter class for every other class. There is no counter class for heavies.

Heavy>scout
Heavy>assault
Heavy>logi

Sure a shotgun will counter a heavy. That is still not a class. That is the weapon. I could put a shotgun on assault class and kill a heavy but that still doesn't solve the class imbalance. There is no proper class to counter heavies since they nerfed strafe speed. Scout with anything but a shotgun is useless against heavies. Given they have the same amount of skill points.

Yeah weapons counter each other in rock paper scissor fashion. The classes no longer do like they used to.

I'm not sure it's possible to 'rock, paper, scissors' the classes. The weapon they're carrying makes way more difference.

For example: I have a mutant Sidearm Assault build, and it eats non-HMG heavies for breakfast while being almost completely useless against HMGs.

Heavies shouldn't be limited, though they should be lockable entities considered the same as Vehicles. AV grenades should seek them out, they should trigger proximity explosives and Swarms should be able to lock them.

Heavies shouldn't be limited, though they should be lockable entities considered the same as Vehicles. AV grenades should seek them out, they should trigger proximity explosives and Swarms should be able to lock them.

Suits are not vehicles. The heavy suit is the slowest way to travel while every single vehicle is faster than the fastest scout.

I'll say yes to targeting heavies with AV when I see mercs riding piggy back on them to assault an objective.

HMG's are fine. There's nothing wrong with them. Just because you got your ass handed to you by thinking your superman does not mean HMGs are over powered.

Your average GEK-38 does 1900 damage if you hit all your shots on a heavy.

Your average HMG does 7000 damage ( Again if you hit all your shots )

Now you have to think about movement.

Your average assault has a movement speed of 4.75

Your average heavy has 3.50 or 3.75

If your move from side to side fast the heavy will be fooled which way you are going to go ( Most Heavys )

Just because you got your ass handed to you dosent mean heavy are over powerd.

Looking at just base stats that looks overpowered. for 1 point of movement speed we lose a total of 5100 damage. Thats hilarious.

People love to pull out the "heavies are supposed to be infantry tanks and that's why their ridiculous HMG combined with their insane health is somehow justified" argument.

Ok, if heavies are tanks then why can you have as many heavies as you want out on the field yet you can't have out more than a few HAVs?

If heavies are tanks, then a strict limit should be placed on the number of heavy dropsuits a team can have out at once or use up in a game. If CCP does this, then the "heavies are suppose to be tanks" argument would actually have some ground to stand on.

If they don't, then they will forever just be an overpowered and annoying gimmicky assault class on steroids that doesn't belong in this game until they get a nerf.

Edit: Allow me to be more specific. The heavy dropsuit itself, despite currently being an annoying gimmick, is for the most part fine. It's the HMG that makes this class so ridiculous.

I agree that the HMG is the issue not the heavy suit (specifically the range of the weapon). I think if they increased the spread of the HMG at range it would largely fix the issue.

Heavies are at a disadvantage at range I play a heavy all the time and...

I need to unload almost an entire magazine before I pick u off at longer ranges
I need a logibro around to repair me and give me ammo without them I'll die 10 times a match
If you are behind COVER it becomes EXTREMELY hard to get shots in
I move like i have lead shoes on making it very hard for me to get to cover....if im caught out in the open im a dead man
If two assaults get a jump on me and suprise me im screwed
If a sniper catches me in the open im toast
Shotgun scouts move too fast up close to hit with my "OP" hmg
Other heavies on the enemy team are a serious threat
Forge guns drop me quick
I cant move away from cooked grenades quickly enough to avoid damage
Lavs just run me down
I can't jump over a curb....nuff said
The list goes on n on



Heavies are at a major disadvantage throughout MOST of a battle and the fact that you r mad because one owned u because u thought standing in the open unloading your ar at me was a good idea is hilarious..... get good....use cover....use tactics....end of discussion

While I don't necessarily agree that the HMG needs to be attended to at all, let alone heavies in general, I would be okay with a bit more spread. Not necessarily that much though. Range, damage, etc I think seem fine. The spread I could see as a valid trade off though.

What I don't really understand is why people have, since the reset it seems, taken up arms against heavies. I didn't really see a whole lot of hate for them pre-reset, but after it when everyone was easy HMG fodder, they are suddenly a problem.

But mostly - it's the maps. Half the maps out in rotation for ambush are a heavies play land.

Hey OP heres an idea that usually keeps me alive. See a heavy? Get out of there find some team mates focus fire and boom your done. As long as you aren't within say 10m of then their damage isn't as great but yeah CQB 9 times out of 10 your dead. I have come close to killing heavies in close quarters but then I have to reload and they already have me pegged

Hey OP heres an idea that usually keeps me alive. See a heavy? Get out of there find some team mates focus fire and boom your done. As long as you aren't within say 10m of then their damage isn't as great but yeah CQB 9 times out of 10 your dead. I have come close to killing heavies in close quarters but then I have to reload and they already have me pegged

Those are all weapons. How come there is a counter class for every other class. There is no counter class for heavies.

Heavy>scout
Heavy>assault
Heavy>logi

Sure a shotgun will counter a heavy. That is still not a class. That is the weapon. I could put a shotgun on assault class and kill a heavy but that still doesn't solve the class imbalance. There is no proper class to counter heavies since they nerfed strafe speed. Scout with anything but a shotgun is useless against heavies. Given they have the same amount of skill points.

Yeah weapons counter each other in rock paper scissor fashion. The classes no longer do like they used to.

HMG stays above 50% efficiency up to around 45~55 meters last I recall. WITHOUT any sharpshooter skills. 10 meters my *ss.

That said, I agree with the idea that increasing the spread would fix the issue. Accuracy at that range should be lower, and even after heating up all the way, the HMG should STILL not be half as accurate as it is right now at ~50 meters.

Yeah, but how many bullets are hitting at that range? Barely half, if that.

Less accuracy? Fine, but atleast make the suit scale properly vs adv and pro assault suits so the highend ones are actually worth using.

Half of 2000 RPM hitting at ~50 meters is still 1000 RPM hitting at ~50 meters. Nuff said.

The AR is much more accurate over longer distances, the HMG simply isn't. Which is fine, but people are seriously over-estimating the HMG.

Learn to read, man.

Barely half.

IF THAT

That means a Heavy is ridiculously lucky if half of his shots are hitting at 50 meters, and chances are that he's attacking another heavy if that many rounds are hitting before you spin up all the way.

When you start firing, it'll be closer to 1/4, and then boost up to 1/3. If you empty practically the whole magazine downrange for max accuracy buildup, then yeah, you might get it up to 1/2, but not before that.

The AR is much more accurate over longer distances, the HMG simply isn't. Which is fine, but people are seriously over-estimating the HMG.

And then what happens if you're not behind them? Oh wait you die, with absolutely no counterplay. That's bad game design.

Something about them needs to change, be it spread or range. If you really think their accuracy was THAT bad at that range, I see no reason who you'd be against a slight range nerf anyway. At least then you wouldn't be tempted to waste bullets on someone so far away.

People love to pull out the "heavies are supposed to be infantry tanks and that's why their ridiculous HMG combined with their insane health is somehow justified" argument.

Ok, if heavies are tanks then why can you have as many heavies as you want out on the field yet you can't have out more than a few HAVs?

If heavies are tanks, then a strict limit should be placed on the number of heavy dropsuits a team can have out at once or use up in a game. If CCP does this, then the "heavies are suppose to be tanks" argument would actually have some ground to stand on.

If they don't, then they will forever just be an overpowered and annoying gimmicky assault class on steroids that doesn't belong in this game until they get a nerf.

Edit: Allow me to be more specific. The heavy dropsuit itself, despite currently being an annoying gimmick, is for the most part fine. It's the HMG that makes this class so ridiculous.

HMG's are actually broken. Currently they are functioning much more like an LMG which once again proves as to why CCP has no idea what they are doing in regards to weapons.

Currently by pressing R1 the HMG begins to fire which is ridiculous.

The Death machine in COD has to spin up before it begins to fire
The Wraith in Resistance 2 has to spin up before firing.

Glad to see the number of idiotic posts hasn't reduced since I stop looking at these forums...

Ok, I'll bite.
Go ahead and treat heavies like tanks, but if you are going to treat them like tanks, then you also have to give them a 10 m/s movement speed(like HAVs), armor hardener/repair modules(like HAVs), and two secondary weapons that can be fired simultaneously with the heavy's primary weapon(like HAVs).

Are you seeing how heavy suits aren't REALLY like tanks?

I have spent a lot more time with the HMG since making this thread and I can confirm without a doubt it's the easiest weapon in the game to use. Zero recoil (just bullet spread), no ADS required, L1 tightens the cone so much that you can outmatch AR users at past medium range, insane clip size and extremely low heat build up time so that you can spray your gun forever while everyone else has to get stuck in the reload animation, highest DPS out of all the weapons. All this on top of the already insane health advantage heavies already have. url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf34ZIRC_Lc]lolHMGs[/url]

You say this, and yet I can still eat heavies for breakfast in a logistics suit with my AR.

And, oh boy, I can't imagine what you would have thought around the time of replication, back when militia heavies could have 1000 armor and the HMG did more or less the same as it does now, you probably would of had a rage stroke.

Heavies are fine.

for anyone that doesnt think heavies/hmg combo is op, get your 4 best players to run an assault/scout class and give me a mh82 and a b series account and play me 4v1 in an ambush, bet you lose every single time...

Edit: Allow me to be more specific. The heavy dropsuit itself, despite currently being an annoying gimmick, is for the most part fine. It's the HMG that makes this class so ridiculous.

I have spent a lot more time with the HMG since making this thread and I can confirm without a doubt it's the easiest weapon in the game to use. Zero recoil (just bullet spread), no ADS required, L1 tightens the cone so much that you can outmatch AR users at past medium range, insane clip size and extremely low heat build up time so that you can spray your gun forever while everyone else has to get stuck in the reload animation, highest DPS out of all the weapons. All this on top of the already insane health advantage heavies already have. lolHMGs

Keeping the hipfire spread constant (so that it doesn't decrease over time) and removing the L1 button's zoom-in function (or patching it so that all it does is zoom-in and doesn't decrease the hipfire spread) would help a lot with balancing this weapon.

I have spent a lot more time with the HMG since making this thread and I can confirm without a doubt it's the easiest weapon in the game to use. Zero recoil (just bullet spread), no ADS required, L1 tightens the cone so much that you can outmatch AR users at past medium range, insane clip size and extremely low heat build up time so that you can spray your gun forever while everyone else has to get stuck in the reload animation, highest DPS out of all the weapons. All this on top of the already insane health advantage heavies already have. lolHMGs

Keeping the hipfire spread constant (so that it doesn't decrease over time) and removing the L1 button's zoom-in function (or patching it so that all it does is zoom-in and doesn't decrease the hipfire spread) would help a lot with balancing this weapon.

Wondering why your entire corp isn't full of heavies.

Sniper counters a heavy,
Laser counters a heavy,
Tank counters a heavy,
AR counters a heavy
Shotgun scout counters a heavy....

*snipped personal attack* - CCP Eterne
Rock paper scissor rules:
rock beats scissor
scissor beats paper
paper beats rock

Dust imbalance rules:
HMG beats AR
HMG beats sniper
HMG beats HMG
HMG beats every class
AR beats sniper
AR beats AR
snipers beat militia nubes
miltia nubes beat snipers

This rock paper scissor system that this game is said to have is nonexistent and ludicrous.
Wake up.

As much as I enjoy squashing misconceptions about the Heavy class, can we please stop posting in this thread?

It's almost a month old. The conversation is over. Let's move on.

So the fact that no one shot at you while you were in optimal firing conditions makes the weapon OP?

It's a close quarters room-clearer, it's good at that. You were in close quarters. Three of the six people you killed weren't even looking at you, one tried to melee you, and the other threw a grenade when he should have been gunning you down.

Anyone can get a quick kill streak against incompetent blueberries.

No, it's not a CQC only weapon. The L1's zoom-in function and the increased accuracy over time gives it close to AR range. I didn't even have sharpshooter skills when I tried it out.

The HMG requires the least amount of effort to use out of all the weapons in this game. It's mindlessly easy to pick up and perform well with. If you want to keep its accuracy, add spin up time and significantly raise heat build up (the heat build up is so slow right now it might as well not even be there) so that it can take at least a little bit of brainpower to use.

Okay clearly someone's just bitter, so I want to be the first to say to you.

"Welcome to New Eden, noob."

Pretty much every EVE player's go-to line when they want to justify a broken game mechanic without having to go through the effort of coming up with a rational thought.

not everyone prefers to take the easy way out when it comes to video games, abusing something thats broken doesnt exactly make you good.

Pretty much everyone's reaction when they're butthurt that people don't agree with them.

Am I doing it right?

Pretty much everyone's reaction when they're butthurt that people don't agree with them.

Am I doing it right?

Want to know how I know heavies aren't OP?
Because I kill them in a logistics suit, with an AR, on a regular basis.

Want to know the only time a heavy ever kills me?
When I get into close-quarters-combat with one.


So here's my advice to you, stop going CQC against heavies.

Want to know how I know heavies aren't OP?
Because I kill them in a logistics suit, with an AR, on a regular basis.

Want to know the only time a heavy ever kills me?
When I get into close-quarters-combat with one.


So here's my advice to you, stop going CQC against heavies.

No point in limiting the amount of heavies in a team. Because their popularity limits their numbers within a team. Say what you want about heavies being OP. if they were that OP then everyone would use them as your aluding to. Which they don't. So there for they can't be. Ipso facto


******EDIT:********
I see alot of people saying that hmg's a OP, that they have the same range as AR's, that they are too 'easy' to use. Before you have a massive moan, actually try something out:

just because on paper hey have the same range, doesn't mean that they do. they have a sweet spot where they are phenomenal, but to close and they cant track you, more than sort of 10m and theyre damage is massively reduced, for example. The ambush map with no buildings, standing where A would be on a skirmish and shooting at the inevitable swarms of blue berries on the opposite side, That is WAY past decent damage dealing range, vs an AR milita version, i WOULD loose if he shot back, i have close to 1000hp, my fits are coming up on 150k each, but vs a noob with an AR with no skill or skills i would die at 20m. I wouldnt really concider this to be over powered.

As for easy to use,have you ever tried to fire a weapon without ADS, have you ever tried o fire a weapon that has shocking accuracy for the first seond and then insane recoil after its accurate? the only thing thats easy about them is the fact that you get so many shots per clip. bu bearing in mind that half my shots are missing and each shot does alot less damage than your AR, i NEED them. then when i do run out, i have the reload of all reloads. sometimes the next match has started by the time im ready to shoot again.

Finally the heavy suit its self. Its massively over powered as it should be for all its draw backs. i have 3 times your health. but im 3 times your size, you cant help but hit me if you fire in my general direction. I have no utility slot. it takes 24 hours for my armor to regen on its own, so im rarely ready for the next fight unless iv got a team mate repping. i cant jump up kerbs, let alone over barriers, you'll often see me stuck with a light breeze. My suits are cripplingly expensive for anything more than basic and for little to no benefits. And for all this I waddle about the battlefield like a walrus on land, slower than a granny on a zimmer.

*rant over*
*almost*
Try something so you understand the draw backs of it before you complain about it, experienced players compensate for there setups disadvantages so that you dont see or understand them.

like shot gun scouts, 1 hit killing. OP? No because it takes alot of skill to outflank someone to get to that range, iv tried it so i understand.
Tanks OP? No becuase they cost so damn much and once AV infantry get theyre acts together and train some skills you can find yourself in a bad place quickly, i know iv tried it.
Dropships OP, no for the same reason as tanks. AGAIN IVE TRAINED THEM AND TRIED IT!
AR's OP? No balanced just like everything else, you can run into a fire fight and drop 4 people with one clip, but then a counter turns up and swats you. IV TRIED ASSAULT AR TOO!!!!!!!!!!

Iv skilled alot of different suits an weapons and iv changed tactics virtually every reset, because i always think someone else has the better life. Truth is the green grass in the other field always turns out to be a pissy yellow colour once you've jumped over that fence.

I could go on but im well past TL;DR now so ill shut up and hope that iv got at least some of my point across. So once more, if heavies or anything else were so much better than everything else you would see no diversity on the battefeild, but you dont, so its balanced

IPSO FACTO

*snipped personal attack* - CCP Eterne
Rock paper scissor rules:
rock beats scissor
scissor beats paper
paper beats rock

Dust imbalance rules:
HMG beats AR
HMG beats sniper
HMG beats HMG
HMG beats every class
AR beats sniper
AR beats AR
snipers beat militia nubes
miltia nubes beat snipers

This rock paper scissor system that this game is said to have is nonexistent and ludicrous.
Wake up.

Night of the Living Thread.

I don't like you...

Anything I have speced into I have been good/great at. Everyone last build said tanks are so hard so I'm proving them wrong.

Paran who hasn't tried everything by now? (From closed beta testers)

Whyyyyyyy?!?! Why do people revive stupid threads, but not good ones?

I don't have a big problem with heavy+ hmg, it just seems the majority of ppl try to take them on close range and that''s why they end up with so many kills, all i do as assault is just keep my distance and gradually take them down.

My problem is in regards to heavies + lasers, i mean they already are tanks and yet they can range you, in a 1v1 fight it's almost impossible to get out of if your in a tight situation unless you can somehow manage to flank them and even so , it takes you longer to kill them because of their defences.

But in general i actually like taking down heavies because once you take them down it feels like a boss kill equivalent in this game lol, and also the fact you know their suits and hmg cost allot more than the rest of us, if they wanna keep comming back and dying that's fine with me.

No point in limiting the amount of heavies in a team. Because their popularity limits their numbers within a team. Say what you want about heavies being OP. if they were that OP then everyone would use them as your aluding to. Which they don't. So there for they can't be. Ipso facto


******EDIT:********
I see alot of people saying that hmg's a OP, that they have the same range as AR's, that they are too 'easy' to use. Before you have a massive moan, actually try something out:

just because on paper hey have the same range, doesn't mean that they do. they have a sweet spot where they are phenomenal, but to close and they cant track you, more than sort of 10m and theyre damage is massively reduced, for example. The ambush map with no buildings, standing where A would be on a skirmish and shooting at the inevitable swarms of blue berries on the opposite side, That is WAY past decent damage dealing range, vs an AR milita version, i WOULD loose if he shot back, i have close to 1000hp, my fits are coming up on 150k each, but vs a noob with an AR with no skill or skills i would die at 20m. I wouldnt really concider this to be over powered.

As for easy to use,have you ever tried to fire a weapon without ADS, have you ever tried o fire a weapon that has shocking accuracy for the first seond and then insane recoil after its accurate? the only thing thats easy about them is the fact that you get so many shots per clip. bu bearing in mind that half my shots are missing and each shot does alot less damage than your AR, i NEED them. then when i do run out, i have the reload of all reloads. sometimes the next match has started by the time im ready to shoot again.

Finally the heavy suit its self. Its massively over powered as it should be for all its draw backs. i have 3 times your health. but im 3 times your size, you cant help but hit me if you fire in my general direction. I have no utility slot. it takes 24 hours for my armor to regen on its own, so im rarely ready for the next fight unless iv got a team mate repping. i cant jump up kerbs, let alone over barriers, you'll often see me stuck with a light breeze. My suits are cripplingly expensive for anything more than basic and for little to no benefits. And for all this I waddle about the battlefield like a walrus on land, slower than a granny on a zimmer.

*rant over*
*almost*
Try something so you understand the draw backs of it before you complain about it, experienced players compensate for there setups disadvantages so that you dont see or understand them.

like shot gun scouts, 1 hit killing. OP? No because it takes alot of skill to outflank someone to get to that range, iv tried it so i understand.
Tanks OP? No becuase they cost so damn much and once AV infantry get theyre acts together and train some skills you can find yourself in a bad place quickly, i know iv tried it.
Dropships OP, no for the same reason as tanks. AGAIN IVE TRAINED THEM AND TRIED IT!
AR's OP? No balanced just like everything else, you can run into a fire fight and drop 4 people with one clip, but then a counter turns up and swats you. IV TRIED ASSAULT AR TOO!!!!!!!!!!

Iv skilled alot of different suits an weapons and iv changed tactics virtually every reset, because i always think someone else has the better life. Truth is the green grass in the other field always turns out to be a pissy yellow colour once you've jumped over that fence.

I could go on but im well past TL;DR now so ill shut up and hope that iv got at least some of my point across. So once more, if heavies or anything else were so much better than everything else you would see no diversity on the battefeild, but you dont, so its balanced

IPSO FACTO