DUST Search - If Heavies Are Supposed To Be Tanks, Limit the Number of Heavies Allowed in a Game

Mobius Wyvern wrote:

undeadsoldier90 wrote:

Mobius Wyvern wrote:

undeadsoldier90 wrote:

Mobius Wyvern wrote:

Eight pages of this tripe? Is the idea of not going 1v1 with a Heavy in your Assault suit just that hard a concept to understand? Also, for anyone that wants there to be a long spinup time before you can fire an HMG, why do you think not many people use the Mini Chain Gun in Planetside 2, and the ones that do have ****** KDRs? You put a long spinup on that thing, and it'll go straight to useless, and then everything is screwed up again.

Just leave it alone. Flank the damn Heavy.

only works if said heavy is not aware of said flank and even then your still in a 1v1 scenario. You want to kill heavies? Use your range to kill them before they reach you problem solved.

And attack them with superior numbers, which I thought was implied in my statement of flanking, but I'll further clarify that. This game is built around working together, so DO IT.

Yes this could work..... but i hope your "superior numbers" are extremely good.... because if not they will most likely die and then you are stuck again with a 1v1 scenario. Facing a full squad as a heavy is not difficult if you play it right, unless your facing 4 duvolls wiht 50% dmg buffs then the heavy is screwed hard.

Now facing a heavy with a full squad, while 1 or 2 members chip at him from outside his range, that is a win almost every time. I can say that is what kills me more than anything else. Oh and laser rifles.........

Can't wait to spec back into Laser Rifles when I get another PS3, espescially if they make them do bonus damage based on time on target rather than time spent firing. That'll just make them even better for me.

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undeadsoldier90 UnReaL. 113	Posted - 2013.02.04 04:07:00 - [91] - Quote The legend345 wrote: gbghg wrote: In dust we have a thing known as roles and these roles have a rock paper scissors relationship. HMG beats AR at close range, AR beats HMG at medium range, sniper/LR beats AR at long range and so on in all their variations, this isn't a twitch shooter where everyone is on a level field, this is very much a right tool for the right job game. Honestly what is it with you people who think assault should be the sole dropsuit in this game The HMG beats AR at medium range If said AR user is a complete failure at this game yes.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2013.02.04 04:09:00 - [92] - Quote Eight pages of this tripe? Is the idea of not going 1v1 with a Heavy in your Assault suit just that hard a concept to understand? Also, for anyone that wants there to be a long spinup time before you can fire an HMG, why do you think not many people use the Mini Chain Gun in Planetside 2, and the ones that do have ****** KDRs? You put a long spinup on that thing, and it'll go straight to useless, and then everything is screwed up again. Just leave it alone. Flank the damn Heavy.
undeadsoldier90 UnReaL. 113	Posted - 2013.02.04 04:14:00 - [93] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Eight pages of this tripe? Is the idea of not going 1v1 with a Heavy in your Assault suit just that hard a concept to understand? Also, for anyone that wants there to be a long spinup time before you can fire an HMG, why do you think not many people use the Mini Chain Gun in Planetside 2, and the ones that do have ****** KDRs? You put a long spinup on that thing, and it'll go straight to useless, and then everything is screwed up again. Just leave it alone. Flank the damn Heavy. only works if said heavy is not aware of said flank and even then your still in a 1v1 scenario. You want to kill heavies? Use your range to kill them before they reach you problem solved.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2013.02.04 04:15:00 - [94] - Quote undeadsoldier90 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Eight pages of this tripe? Is the idea of not going 1v1 with a Heavy in your Assault suit just that hard a concept to understand? Also, for anyone that wants there to be a long spinup time before you can fire an HMG, why do you think not many people use the Mini Chain Gun in Planetside 2, and the ones that do have ****** KDRs? You put a long spinup on that thing, and it'll go straight to useless, and then everything is screwed up again. Just leave it alone. Flank the damn Heavy. only works if said heavy is not aware of said flank and even then your still in a 1v1 scenario. You want to kill heavies? Use your range to kill them before they reach you problem solved. And attack them with superior numbers, which I thought was implied in my statement of flanking, but I'll further clarify that. This game is built around working together, so DO IT.
miahus CrimeWave Syndicate 78	Posted - 2013.02.04 04:16:00 - [95] - Quote the only problem i see regarding heavy drop suits is in corp matches. the heavy's disadvantage lies in its lack of mobility, and three letters crammed together over a small area take that away, making heavies rule the map.
undeadsoldier90 UnReaL. 113	Posted - 2013.02.04 04:22:00 - [96] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: undeadsoldier90 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Eight pages of this tripe? Is the idea of not going 1v1 with a Heavy in your Assault suit just that hard a concept to understand? Also, for anyone that wants there to be a long spinup time before you can fire an HMG, why do you think not many people use the Mini Chain Gun in Planetside 2, and the ones that do have ****** KDRs? You put a long spinup on that thing, and it'll go straight to useless, and then everything is screwed up again. Just leave it alone. Flank the damn Heavy. only works if said heavy is not aware of said flank and even then your still in a 1v1 scenario. You want to kill heavies? Use your range to kill them before they reach you problem solved. And attack them with superior numbers, which I thought was implied in my statement of flanking, but I'll further clarify that. This game is built around working together, so DO IT. Yes this could work..... but i hope your "superior numbers" are extremely good.... because if not they will most likely die and then you are stuck again with a 1v1 scenario. Facing a full squad as a heavy is not difficult if you play it right, unless your facing 4 duvolls wiht 50% dmg buffs then the heavy is screwed hard. Now facing a heavy with a full squad, while 1 or 2 members chip at him from outside his range, that is a win almost every time. I can say that is what kills me more than anything else. Oh and laser rifles.........
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2013.02.04 04:29:00 - [97] - Quote undeadsoldier90 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: undeadsoldier90 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Eight pages of this tripe? Is the idea of not going 1v1 with a Heavy in your Assault suit just that hard a concept to understand? Also, for anyone that wants there to be a long spinup time before you can fire an HMG, why do you think not many people use the Mini Chain Gun in Planetside 2, and the ones that do have ****** KDRs? You put a long spinup on that thing, and it'll go straight to useless, and then everything is screwed up again. Just leave it alone. Flank the damn Heavy. only works if said heavy is not aware of said flank and even then your still in a 1v1 scenario. You want to kill heavies? Use your range to kill them before they reach you problem solved. And attack them with superior numbers, which I thought was implied in my statement of flanking, but I'll further clarify that. This game is built around working together, so DO IT. Yes this could work..... but i hope your "superior numbers" are extremely good.... because if not they will most likely die and then you are stuck again with a 1v1 scenario. Facing a full squad as a heavy is not difficult if you play it right, unless your facing 4 duvolls wiht 50% dmg buffs then the heavy is screwed hard. Now facing a heavy with a full squad, while 1 or 2 members chip at him from outside his range, that is a win almost every time. I can say that is what kills me more than anything else. Oh and laser rifles......... Can't wait to spec back into Laser Rifles when I get another PS3, espescially if they make them do bonus damage based on time on target rather than time spent firing. That'll just make them even better for me.
undeadsoldier90 UnReaL. 113	Posted - 2013.02.04 04:30:00 - [98] - Quote seeing as maple is my corp mate i can tell you that he rarely ran a logi-bro.
undeadsoldier90 UnReaL. 113	Posted - 2013.02.04 04:32:00 - [99] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: undeadsoldier90 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: undeadsoldier90 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Eight pages of this tripe? Is the idea of not going 1v1 with a Heavy in your Assault suit just that hard a concept to understand? Also, for anyone that wants there to be a long spinup time before you can fire an HMG, why do you think not many people use the Mini Chain Gun in Planetside 2, and the ones that do have ****** KDRs? You put a long spinup on that thing, and it'll go straight to useless, and then everything is screwed up again. Just leave it alone. Flank the damn Heavy. only works if said heavy is not aware of said flank and even then your still in a 1v1 scenario. You want to kill heavies? Use your range to kill them before they reach you problem solved. And attack them with superior numbers, which I thought was implied in my statement of flanking, but I'll further clarify that. This game is built around working together, so DO IT. Yes this could work..... but i hope your "superior numbers" are extremely good.... because if not they will most likely die and then you are stuck again with a 1v1 scenario. Facing a full squad as a heavy is not difficult if you play it right, unless your facing 4 duvolls wiht 50% dmg buffs then the heavy is screwed hard. Now facing a heavy with a full squad, while 1 or 2 members chip at him from outside his range, that is a win almost every time. I can say that is what kills me more than anything else. Oh and laser rifles......... Can't wait to spec back into Laser Rifles when I get another PS3, espescially if they make them do bonus damage based on time on target rather than time spent firing. That'll just make them even better for me. LOL lasers are already nasty..... esp for shield heavies.
Ghost-33 ShootBreakStab 108	Posted - 2013.02.04 04:34:00 - [100] - Quote Jotun Hiem wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: HMG's are actually broken. Currently they are functioning much more like an LMG which once again proves as to why CCP has no idea what they are doing in regards to weapons. Currently by pressing R1 the HMG begins to fire which is ridiculous. The Death machine in COD has to spin up before it begins to fire The Wraith in Resistance 2 has to spin up before firing. Real multi-barrel guns don't have almost no spin up time currently, so I don't know where you're going with this argument. Especially since the races in DUST have had something like 10,000 years to refine the formula. To the OP, you want to know how to kill a Heavy? Get behind him. Actually mini-guns or multi-barrel machine guns don't have a spool up time, they fire as soon as you hit the trigger or press the button. All you have is a slight increase in ROF as it approaches full spin, but if fires the first bullet near instantly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_oEgkiJ8m4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykb3Is3Dsmw http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=iAw82h-IhdQ&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18G5ycZf-rc

Sgt S-Laughter SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 22	Posted - 2013.02.04 04:39:00 - [101] - Quote Heavies are definitely my biggest annoyance in the game currently. When I die, it's most likely 1 -> caught right out of another fire fight and haven't even had shields up, or 2 -> OMGWTFHEAVYQQ. I understand though that it is supposed to be like that. Heavies are the counter to assaults. The HMG may need some tweaks, but I think wind up is NOT the answer. No one wants to pull a trigger and have nothing happen. If anything, reduce their over time accuracy (I think the over time accuracy isn't a bad idea, just not TOO accurate. This is because these types of guns in actual use are usually about adjusting your bullet trails to paint targets dead rather than sighted fire like an ar.) It's still a hand heald HMG though, and even the heavy body isn't gonna be able to brace that like a mounted HMG. It shouldn't get too accurate. It's really hard to gauge balance in a game like this. There are essentially two different game modes. One is a pug match, the other is a co-ordinated team effort. IMO I'd rather have an excellently balanced co-ordinated team effort mode with a slightly imba pub game. Doesn't mean things shouldn't be balance, and anyone who refuses to question any terms of balance adjustments is in need of an education* Things are, and always will be imbalanced. So don't say "things are balanced," just say you like how it's balanced. Agreeing with any argument of balance doesn't make you right, it's all opinion and contextual. *Education: The perfectly balanced game. There are 10 coins on the table, we each take turns picking one up. When they are all gone, whoever has the most wins. Games aren't about being perfectly balanced. They are about having an agreeable imbalance. Each role should have it's spot to shine, but a single role is going to be a better balance of skill vs result than the rest. The trick is figuring out which should be the best, and how the rest should still shine.
undeadsoldier90 UnReaL. 113	Posted - 2013.02.04 04:41:00 - [102] - Quote From what i can gather this game is based in the future..... we have guns that shoot balls of plasma..... why in the name of odins beard would a HMG need to spool in the first place? If assault rifles dont have any recoil or spread then HMG'S should not have a spool time.
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2013.02.04 04:52:00 - [103] - Quote Ghost-33 wrote: Actually mini-guns or multi-barrel machine guns don't have a spool up time, they fire as soon as you hit the trigger or press the button. All you have is a slight increase in ROF as it approaches full spin, but if fires the first bullet near instantly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_oEgkiJ8m4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykb3Is3Dsmw http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=iAw82h-IhdQ&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18G5ycZf-rc Derp... that's exactly what I meant to say, but I messed up when making an edit. I'll go ahead and fix that now...
DropKickSuicide Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 74	Posted - 2013.02.04 05:03:00 - [104] - Quote So does no one realize that you have to use up almost an entire mag before the HMG is any where near accurate at range? Also you have to use skill points to get that range and most with range the same as ARs are fully specd and using Assualt HMGs. If anything the Heavy needs a buff in to the Higher Teir Dropsuits. Has anyone used a Heavy? or looked at how bad Proto suits are for heavys? Play smarter
undeadsoldier90 UnReaL. 113	Posted - 2013.02.04 05:05:00 - [105] - Quote DropKickSuicide wrote: So does no one realize that you have to use up almost an entire mag before the HMG is any where near accurate at range? Also you have to use skill points to get that range and most with range the same as ARs are fully specd and using Assualt HMGs. If anything the Heavy needs a buff in to the Higher Teir Dropsuits. Has anyone used a Heavy? or looked at how bad Proto suits are for heavys? Play smarter Thank you!
Belzeebub Santana SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 409	Posted - 2013.02.04 05:18:00 - [106] - Quote Watched the Super Bowl and had this 9 page whopper of a thread to read through (first one in a while). Things haven't been this hot on the forums for a minute. My opinion on Tue heavy suit itself is that it shouldn't be able to drive (at least not the LAVs, not sure about tanks or DSs). This negates their slow speed in large maps where getting from objective to objective is key. It also pairs them with another player if they do decide to ride around in their death taxis. As for the HMG I think that a spool up time is dumb, but have the initial accuracy be a lot less, so holding the trigger to get a beteer aim is something that needs to be done. The traits of the HMG is it gets more accurate the longer you shoot but the initial rounds are pretty accurate and isn't a whole lotta need to hold the trigger. Another issue I keep reading is the distance of HMG bullets, once skilled the HMG does seem to have too much range (my opinion). This could go hand in hand with the initial shoots being very wide spread. If the bullets spread was pretty bad when first firing then range would only come after the user held the trigger down longer, making the gun effective at range only after being shot for a bit (1/4 of it's ammo depleted?). But in all they aren't Op just some tweeks to get it in line. To all the posters; good thread would read again (like how you can see people leave their corp. through the process of reading it).
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2013.02.04 05:23:00 - [107] - Quote I find it interesting that most OP threads compare just two weapons, and one of them is usually an AR. There are many more in the game.
Dr Debo Galaxy GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 195	Posted - 2013.02.04 05:27:00 - [108] - Quote Are people really having this much trouble with heavies?
DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 254	Posted - 2013.02.04 05:38:00 - [109] - Quote Wow.... A long ass thread for nerf on HMGs. Dmg is fine. Spool up time is stupid. Too accurate over time? Maybe.. Better than AR at range? LOLNO. Your problem might be that you're standing still.... Edit:1 Stop asking for nerfs... We all know that CCP will over nerf something that might need a slight tweak. It's better for HMGs to be useful like now than for it to be nerfed to hell making it useless.
undeadsoldier90 UnReaL. 113	Posted - 2013.02.04 05:41:00 - [110] - Quote I think we have beaten this particular horse to death..... heavies are not OP. learn to strafe. use distance. do not 1v1. stop sucking and work on your gun game. and most importantly learn which heavies are good and use teamwork on them.

Adaris Manpher ZionTCD Legacy Rising 21	Posted - 2013.02.04 06:32:00 - [111] - Quote Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: People love to pull out the "heavies are supposed to be infantry tanks and that's why their ridiculous HMG combined with their insane health is somehow justified" argument. Ok, if heavies are tanks then why can you have as many heavies as you want out on the field yet you can't have out more than a few HAVs? If heavies are tanks, then a strict limit should be placed on the number of heavy dropsuits a team can have out at once or use up in a game. If CCP does this, then the "heavies are suppose to be tanks" argument would actually have some ground to stand on. If they don't, then they will forever just be an overpowered and annoying gimmicky assault class on steroids that doesn't belong in this game until they get a nerf. Edit: Allow me to be more specific. The heavy dropsuit itself, despite currently being an annoying gimmick, is for the most part fine. It's the HMG that makes this class so ridiculous. We have already been nerfed dude. Our dmg has been lowered. your just whining dude
KingBabar Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 443	Posted - 2013.02.04 08:15:00 - [112] - Quote 29-0 is a bad game for any good player So you must be a very bad player then? Hell, all the players in Dust is bad...
General Tiberius1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 205	Posted - 2013.02.04 08:18:00 - [113] - Quote undeadsoldier90 wrote: I think we have beaten this particular horse to death..... heavies are not OP. learn to strafe. use distance. do not 1v1. stop sucking and work on your gun game. and most importantly learn which heavies are good and use teamwork on them. yup, having a hard time finding lone redberries these days, keep getting tag teamed. K/DR is a suffering

CCP Eterne C C P C C P Alliance 753	Posted - 2013.02.04 09:19:00 - [114] - Quote I have extensively cleaned this thread of trolling, nonconstructive posts, and personal attacks. None of these things are tolerated on the DUST 514 forums.

Sir Meode Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 317	Posted - 2013.02.04 09:27:00 - [115] - Quote I'm glad I read this thread, such sweet sweet tears.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 72	Posted - 2013.02.04 09:28:00 - [116] - Quote Quote: Yet back in the day before AR's were nerfed and teams were completely randomized I held down somewhere around an 18.5 KDR with no team or support what so ever. Yeah going 29-0 is easy in this game with the ****** players Ok so lemme get that correctly just now... From your words, i get that ... 1. Back then Assault Rifles used to be better 2. Noone had support going as it was all random, no teams 3. You performed worse then a 29/0 score 4. Obviously, you used to be in Beta Yet you call my 29/0 score bad ? So basically what you just said is that when Assault Rifles were better then they are now and teams were completely random, so unlike now back then you couldn't cuddle together in a cluster of 4, 1 heavy, 2 assault and a logi and ** newberries, so you had no support whatsoever, you performed worse then what i described and i came in last week...and you call me bad ? GG man...but if i see you on the ground somewhere, ill take out your squad, because unlike you i don't care so much for stats that can be manipulated.
Belzeebub Santana SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 409	Posted - 2013.02.04 09:31:00 - [117] - Quote Sir Meode wrote: I'm glad I read this thread, such sweet sweet tears. Should have been here when it was 9 pages, damn good thread, people got mad, people got kicked, truly a classic. And here's to Eterne with the nice clean up job, got you people working hard tonight!
Jack McReady A.C.M.E Corp 71	Posted - 2013.02.04 10:08:00 - [118] - Quote the irony. the Imperfects, who are usually running around against some new militia equipped dudes in random matches are crying because some heavies countered their Call of Duty Assault Rifle gameplay at close range and they were not able to stomp. who would guess, heavies counter AR assaults without any support at close range. I die plenty of times in my logi suits against heavies and I dont complain. even I manage to kill them solo close range 1vs1 from time to time with the weakest weapon ingame (SMG) and tier 1 equippment. So I can outplay them with tier 1 equipment but you cant? the range might need some tweaks but saying that heavies (that btw scale alot less with SP than all other suits) should be limited makes you look like a bunch of whiny kids. also, you have grenade slots for a reason, use them.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1	Posted - 2013.02.04 11:25:00 - [119] - Quote Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: People love to pull out the "heavies are supposed to be infantry tanks and that's why their ridiculous HMG combined with their insane health is somehow justified" argument. Ok, if heavies are tanks then why can you have as many heavies as you want out on the field yet you can't have out more than a few HAVs? If heavies are tanks, then a strict limit should be placed on the number of heavy dropsuits a team can have out at once or use up in a game. If CCP does this, then the "heavies are suppose to be tanks" argument would actually have some ground to stand on. If they don't, then they will forever just be an overpowered and annoying gimmicky assault class on steroids that doesn't belong in this game until they get a nerf. Edit: Allow me to be more specific. The heavy dropsuit itself, despite currently being an annoying gimmick, is for the most part fine. It's the HMG that makes this class so ridiculous. i like my scout suit, but the heavies are easy enough to kite
Dusters Blog Bragian Order Amarr Empire 116	Posted - 2013.02.04 12:20:00 - [120] - Quote rather than nerfing or silly quotas, we suggested more solutions for hard to kill assets like tanks and heavies http://t.co/eFLDH9uF



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