DUST Search - If Heavies Are Supposed To Be Tanks, Limit the Number of Heavies Allowed in a Game

All Channels

General Discussions

If Heavies Are Supposed To Be Tanks, Limit the Number of Heavies Allowed in a Game

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Moejoe Omnipotent Imperfects Negative-Feedback 241	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:13:00 - [1] - Quote People love to pull out the "heavies are supposed to be infantry tanks and that's why their ridiculous HMG combined with their insane health is somehow justified" argument. Ok, if heavies are tanks then why can you have as many heavies as you want out on the field yet you can't have out more than a few HAVs? If heavies are tanks, then a strict limit should be placed on the number of heavy dropsuits a team can have out at once or use up in a game. If CCP does this, then the "heavies are suppose to be tanks" argument would actually have some ground to stand on. If they don't, then they will forever just be an overpowered and annoying gimmicky assault class on steroids that doesn't belong in this game until they get a nerf. Edit: Allow me to be more specific. The heavy dropsuit itself, despite currently being an annoying gimmick, is for the most part fine. It's the HMG that makes this class so ridiculous.
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:20:00 - [2] - Quote Heavy's can't accelerate. But the HMG needs looking at. Whoever thought removing the windup, and making them accurate over time needs to fight a couple.
Torr Wrath Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 58	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:22:00 - [3] - Quote Instead of taking the time to write a unique post.. ill just leave this here.. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=508570#post508570
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:25:00 - [4] - Quote That idea is incredibly stupid. Heavies have limits, just like everything else; the limit with heavies is that they depend on a dedicated logibro, or else they'll run out of ammo and low on their hard-to-repair armor. What does this mean? In order for say, 5 heavies to be effective, there needs to be 5 logis. That's 10 players focusing on supporting the slow moving death machines, and therefore 10 players who can't quickly react to anything, or have much versatility. The vehicle limit is to prevent spam and creation of starter-fit roadblocks. Heavies shouldn't be limited because using too many is already a penalty.
LIFE RIPPER Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 103	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:28:00 - [5] - Quote Why don't we limit the AR guys to 3 then?
Drommy Hood Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 242	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:29:00 - [6] - Quote No point in limiting the amount of heavies in a team. Because their popularity limits their numbers within a team. Say what you want about heavies being OP. if they were that OP then everyone would use them as your aluding to. Which they don't. So there for they can't be. Ipso facto ****EDIT:****** I see alot of people saying that hmg's a OP, that they have the same range as AR's, that they are too 'easy' to use. Before you have a massive moan, actually try something out: just because on paper hey have the same range, doesn't mean that they do. they have a sweet spot where they are phenomenal, but to close and they cant track you, more than sort of 10m and theyre damage is massively reduced, for example. The ambush map with no buildings, standing where A would be on a skirmish and shooting at the inevitable swarms of blue berries on the opposite side, That is WAY past decent damage dealing range, vs an AR milita version, i WOULD loose if he shot back, i have close to 1000hp, my fits are coming up on 150k each, but vs a noob with an AR with no skill or skills i would die at 20m. I wouldnt really concider this to be over powered. As for easy to use,have you ever tried to fire a weapon without ADS, have you ever tried o fire a weapon that has shocking accuracy for the first seond and then insane recoil after its accurate? the only thing thats easy about them is the fact that you get so many shots per clip. bu bearing in mind that half my shots are missing and each shot does alot less damage than your AR, i NEED them. then when i do run out, i have the reload of all reloads. sometimes the next match has started by the time im ready to shoot again. Finally the heavy suit its self. Its massively over powered as it should be for all its draw backs. i have 3 times your health. but im 3 times your size, you cant help but hit me if you fire in my general direction. I have no utility slot. it takes 24 hours for my armor to regen on its own, so im rarely ready for the next fight unless iv got a team mate repping. i cant jump up kerbs, let alone over barriers, you'll often see me stuck with a light breeze. My suits are cripplingly expensive for anything more than basic and for little to no benefits. And for all this I waddle about the battlefield like a walrus on land, slower than a granny on a zimmer. rant over almost Try something so you understand the draw backs of it before you complain about it, experienced players compensate for there setups disadvantages so that you dont see or understand them. like shot gun scouts, 1 hit killing. OP? No because it takes alot of skill to outflank someone to get to that range, iv tried it so i understand. Tanks OP? No becuase they cost so damn much and once AV infantry get theyre acts together and train some skills you can find yourself in a bad place quickly, i know iv tried it. Dropships OP, no for the same reason as tanks. AGAIN IVE TRAINED THEM AND TRIED IT! AR's OP? No balanced just like everything else, you can run into a fire fight and drop 4 people with one clip, but then a counter turns up and swats you. IV TRIED ASSAULT AR TOO!!!!!!!!!! Iv skilled alot of different suits an weapons and iv changed tactics virtually every reset, because i always think someone else has the better life. Truth is the green grass in the other field always turns out to be a pissy yellow colour once you've jumped over that fence. I could go on but im well past TL;DR now so ill shut up and hope that iv got at least some of my point across. So once more, if heavies or anything else were so much better than everything else you would see no diversity on the battefeild, but you dont, so its balanced IPSO FACTO
Moejoe Omnipotent Imperfects Negative-Feedback 241	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:30:00 - [7] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: That idea is incredibly stupid. Heavies have limits, just like everything else; the limit with heavies is that they depend on a dedicated logibro, or else they'll run out of ammo and low on their hard-to-repair armor. What does this mean? In order for say, 5 heavies to be effective, there needs to be 5 logis. That's 10 players focusing on supporting the slow moving death machines, and therefore 10 players who can't quickly react to anything, or have much versatility. The vehicle limit is to prevent spam and creation of starter-fit roadblocks. Heavies shouldn't be limited because using too many is already a penalty. Really? 5 heavies on a team would be ineffective unless they each had their own logistic player dedicated to healing them and providing them ammo for their 1000+ round machine guns? Do you really believe that?
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 285	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:31:00 - [8] - Quote Stop running into them and they'll stop killing you. OP problem solved.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:31:00 - [9] - Quote Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: That idea is incredibly stupid. Heavies have limits, just like everything else; the limit with heavies is that they depend on a dedicated logibro, or else they'll run out of ammo and low on their hard-to-repair armor. What does this mean? In order for say, 5 heavies to be effective, there needs to be 5 logis. That's 10 players focusing on supporting the slow moving death machines, and therefore 10 players who can't quickly react to anything, or have much versatility. The vehicle limit is to prevent spam and creation of starter-fit roadblocks. Heavies shouldn't be limited because using too many is already a penalty. Really? 5 heavies on a team would be ineffective unless they each had their own logistic player dedicated to healing them and providing them ammo for their 1000+ round machine guns? Do you really believe that? Yep. What's the problem? You got your ass kicked by a heavy squad?
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 375	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:33:00 - [10] - Quote Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: People love to pull out the "heavies are supposed to be infantry tanks and that's why their ridiculous HMG combined with their insane health is somehow justified" argument. Ok, if heavies are tanks then why can you have as many heavies as you want out on the field yet you can't have out more than a few HAVs? If heavies are tanks, then a strict limit should be placed on the number of heavy dropsuits a team can have out at once or use up in a game. If CCP does this, then the "heavies are suppose to be tanks" argument would actually have some ground to stand on. If they don't, then they will forever just be an overpowered and annoying gimmicky assault class on steroids that doesn't belong in this game until they get a nerf. This is one of the worst idea's i've ever heard, why on earth would you limit the number of one type of dropsuit. Heavy's are slow and HMG gunners are most effective at CQC. Contrary to what you say heavies aren't overpowered, people are just using the wrong approach against them. As has been repeatedly stated in every nerf heavy thread, you take a heavy on head on expect to die. why do you want to limit a dropsuit for doing it's job? Should we limit the number of assault suit's in a match because everyone uses them and their users are responsible for the majority of the kills in the game?

Saj T IT'S NO USE 20	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:36:00 - [11] - Quote HMG is the most underwhelming weapon system bar the nova knife I've come across so far. I'd rather go with an AR with my heavy since it kills virtually as fast up close and has considerably better range and sights. Only real advantage of the HMG is ammo.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 401	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:38:00 - [12] - Quote Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: People love to pull out the "heavies are supposed to be infantry tanks and that's why their ridiculous HMG combined with their insane health is somehow justified" argument. Ok, if heavies are tanks then why can you have as many heavies as you want out on the field yet you can't have out more than a few HAVs? If heavies are tanks, then a strict limit should be placed on the number of heavy dropsuits a team can have out at once or use up in a game. If CCP does this, then the "heavies are suppose to be tanks" argument would actually have some ground to stand on. If they don't, then they will forever just be an overpowered and annoying gimmicky assault class on steroids that doesn't belong in this game until they get a nerf. For those with limited brain power: Market> MILITIA> Weapons> SHOTGUN. Market>Dropsuits> SCOUT. Pookoofff!, Pookooff!!, POOKOOFF!!!!!, thats NOT!! the Avon lady calling!!
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 401	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:42:00 - [13] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: That idea is incredibly stupid. Heavies have limits, just like everything else; the limit with heavies is that they depend on a dedicated logibro, or else they'll run out of ammo and low on their hard-to-repair armor. What does this mean? In order for say, 5 heavies to be effective, there needs to be 5 logis. That's 10 players focusing on supporting the slow moving death machines, and therefore 10 players who can't quickly react to anything, or have much versatility. The vehicle limit is to prevent spam and creation of starter-fit roadblocks. Heavies shouldn't be limited because using too many is already a penalty. Really? 5 heavies on a team would be ineffective unless they each had their own logistic player dedicated to healing them and providing them ammo for their 1000+ round machine guns? Do you really believe that? Yep. What's the problem? You got your ass kicked by a heavy squad? Yeah he got stomped!!! several times by going versus two heavies HMG head on at three feet! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Irish Syn Chernova Industries 123	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:48:00 - [14] - Quote Problem is people are approaching heavies like they are just another soldier. Fact is if you see a heavy in the area and you don't have a good amount of teammates with you then you need to get out of the area. Even if you're targeting someone else, if there's a heavy just forget him and leave. Have you ever played as a heavy? They are extremely slow and can't track well at all. A few rounds ago I ran into a heavy while my squad was back at a different base, I just toyed with for awhile until my squad arrived to back me up. And by toyed I mean ran circles around him.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 283	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:51:00 - [15] - Quote Scout shotgun ambushes are your friend. Heavies are fine.
Tregar Kerrigan Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 36	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:53:00 - [16] - Quote Mass drivers are your friends sir. Hold range, lob grenades at them, and they go down fast enough. As people have said, it's about tools, and situation. If you get in a favorable position, the heavy dies every time. If the heavy gets you in a favorable position for him, you die every time. it's the way of the world.
Moejoe Omnipotent Imperfects Negative-Feedback 241	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:54:00 - [17] - Quote Saj T wrote: HMG is the most underwhelming weapon system bar the nova knife I've come across so far. Is this supposed to be a troll something? Irish Syn wrote: Problem is people are approaching heavies like they are just another soldier. Fact is if you see a heavy in the area and you don't have a good amount of teammates with you then you need to get out of the area. Even if you're targeting someone else, if there's a heavy just forget him and leave. Have you ever played as a heavy? They are extremely slow and can't track well at all. A few rounds ago I ran into a heavy while my squad was back at a different base, I just toyed with for awhile until my squad arrived to back me up. And by toyed I mean ran circles around him. Aww, poor poor heavies and their slow turning speeds. gbghg wrote: Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: People love to pull out the "heavies are supposed to be infantry tanks and that's why their ridiculous HMG combined with their insane health is somehow justified" argument. Ok, if heavies are tanks then why can you have as many heavies as you want out on the field yet you can't have out more than a few HAVs? If heavies are tanks, then a strict limit should be placed on the number of heavy dropsuits a team can have out at once or use up in a game. If CCP does this, then the "heavies are suppose to be tanks" argument would actually have some ground to stand on. If they don't, then they will forever just be an overpowered and annoying gimmicky assault class on steroids that doesn't belong in this game until they get a nerf. This is one of the worst idea's i've ever heard, why on earth would you limit the number of one type of dropsuit. Heavy's are slow and HMG gunners are most effective at CQC. Contrary to what you say heavies aren't overpowered, people are just using the wrong approach against them. As has been repeatedly stated in every nerf heavy thread, you take a heavy on head on expect to die. why do you want to limit a dropsuit for doing it's job? Should we limit the number of assault suit's in a match because everyone uses them and their users are responsible for the majority of the kills in the game? And the ridiculousness of this idea only proves how ridiculous having a tank class in this game is. Using the wrong approach? There is no right approach. HMG range = AR range. Running away from a heavy as you get sprayed upon = death. Running into a heavy's HMG fire to "run circles around them" = death. If you're playing in pubs (you should always assume gameplay is taking in place in pubs and not in a party of 8 in a corp match when you're talking about balance issues) the only reliable tactic is to catch them by complete surprise unless they are a terrible player, and how does this add depth or fun to the game in any shape or form at all? LIFE RIPPER wrote: Why don't we limit the AR guys to 3 then? Because AR guys aren't tanks?
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 375	Posted - 2013.02.03 23:02:00 - [18] - Quote In dust we have a thing known as roles and these roles have a rock paper scissors relationship. HMG beats AR at close range, AR beats HMG at medium range, sniper/LR beats AR at long range and so on in all their variations, this isn't a twitch shooter where everyone is on a level field, this is very much a right tool for the right job game. Honestly what is it with you people who think assault should be the sole dropsuit in this game
xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2013.02.03 23:05:00 - [19] - Quote HMG's are actually broken. Currently they are functioning much more like an LMG which once again proves as to why CCP has no idea what they are doing in regards to weapons. Currently by pressing R1 the HMG begins to fire which is ridiculous. The Death machine in COD has to spin up before it begins to fire The Wraith in Resistance 2 has to spin up before firing.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 215	Posted - 2013.02.03 23:43:00 - [20] - Quote gbghg wrote: In dust we have a thing known as roles and these roles have a rock paper scissors relationship. HMG beats AR at close range, AR beats HMG at medium range, sniper/LR beats AR at long range and so on in all their variations, this isn't a twitch shooter where everyone is on a level field, this is very much a right tool for the right job game. Honestly what is it with you people who think assault should be the sole dropsuit in this game It should but it currently doesnt given the HMG range and accuracy. Also OP is simply saying if tanks have limits why not heavies, i postulate the reverse if there are no limits on dropsuits why a limit on tanks, everyone has said that tanks are worthless without infantry support so then clearly a 2 squads of tanks are worthless if the remaining infantry wont support them right?

Omnipotent lilmamaj Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 205	Posted - 2013.02.03 23:54:00 - [21] - Quote gbghg wrote: In dust we have a thing known as roles and these roles have a rock paper scissors relationship. HMG beats AR at close range, AR beats HMG at medium range, sniper/LR beats AR at long range and so on in all their variations, this isn't a twitch shooter where everyone is on a level field, this is very much a right tool for the right job game. Honestly what is it with you people who think assault should be the sole dropsuit in this game snipped personal attack - CCP Eterne Rock paper scissor rules: rock beats scissor scissor beats paper paper beats rock Dust imbalance rules: HMG beats AR HMG beats sniper HMG beats HMG HMG beats every class AR beats sniper AR beats AR snipers beat militia nubes miltia nubes beat snipers This rock paper scissor system that this game is said to have is nonexistent and ludicrous. Wake up.
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2013.02.04 00:00:00 - [22] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: HMG's are actually broken. Currently they are functioning much more like an LMG which once again proves as to why CCP has no idea what they are doing in regards to weapons. Currently by pressing R1 the HMG begins to fire which is ridiculous. The Death machine in COD has to spin up before it begins to fire The Wraith in Resistance 2 has to spin up before firing. Real multi-barrel guns don't have spin up time currently, so I don't know where you're going with this argument. Especially since the races in DUST have had something like 10,000 years to refine the formula. To the OP, you want to know how to kill a Heavy? Get behind him.
Wicked Glory Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 98	Posted - 2013.02.04 00:02:00 - [23] - Quote Jotun Hiem wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: HMG's are actually broken. Currently they are functioning much more like an LMG which once again proves as to why CCP has no idea what they are doing in regards to weapons. Currently by pressing R1 the HMG begins to fire which is ridiculous. The Death machine in COD has to spin up before it begins to fire The Wraith in Resistance 2 has to spin up before firing. Real multi-barrel guns don't have almost no spin up time currently, so I don't know where you're going with this argument. Especially since the races in DUST have had something like 10,000 years to refine the formula. To the OP, you want to know how to kill a Heavy? Get behind him. Then they turn around and kill you before you kill them And then what happens if you're not behind them? Oh wait you die, with absolutely no counterplay. That's bad game design.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 215	Posted - 2013.02.04 00:03:00 - [24] - Quote Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote: gbghg wrote: In dust we have a thing known as roles and these roles have a rock paper scissors relationship. HMG beats AR at close range, AR beats HMG at medium range, sniper/LR beats AR at long range and so on in all their variations, this isn't a twitch shooter where everyone is on a level field, this is very much a right tool for the right job game. Honestly what is it with you people who think assault should be the sole dropsuit in this game So... are you dumb on purpose? Rock paper scissor rules: rock beats scissor scissor beats paper paper beats rock Dust imbalance rules: HMG beats AR HMG beats sniper HMG beats HMG HMG beats every class AR beats sniper AR beats AR snipers beat militia nubes miltia nubes beat snipers This rock paper scissor system that this game is said to have is nonexistent and ludicrous. Wake up. TBH i can beat heavies in their effective range with a MD but even then its not even close to 1:1 againt. Even in a fully stacked A-series with my Exo most heavies stil shred me to bits but i can get the better of them with a bit more efficiency than most other weapons with exception to shotgun. Also in fairness you really should never be able to 1:1 a heavy without specialized weaponry such as MD, flux, Proto nade, Shotty, LR. I think it should take 2 AR's to take on 1 heavy that really is the right kind of balance. But a heavy should not be dominating the mid-long range territory as effectively as they currently are as well. And that doesnt change the fact that the so called limiitation it has based on range is utterly nonexistent and completely placebo effect biased onto the minds of users simply because they see HMG and assume the inherent weapons stats function in a way to create that effect when the reality is simply not there.
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2013.02.04 00:03:00 - [25] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: HMG's are actually broken. Currently they are functioning much more like an LMG which once again proves as to why CCP has no idea what they are doing in regards to weapons. Currently by pressing R1 the HMG begins to fire which is ridiculous. The Death machine in COD has to spin up before it begins to fire The Wraith in Resistance 2 has to spin up before firing. Ever taken a look at real miniguns? They don't to spin up first.
Elijah Sol' Dzusaki Onward Defrosted Tuna Team 485	Posted - 2013.02.04 00:04:00 - [26] - Quote You know back before the wipe nobody really cared about Heavies they only cared who was one. Like if it was a good player. but after the wipe people started to cry op Heavy.
IRuby Heart DIOS EX. 326	Posted - 2013.02.04 00:06:00 - [27] - Quote The Heavy itself is not the problem, it's the damn guns, why do they have so much range? Anyone who wants to BS me with "it's only effective from close quarters" can stfu right now. I got so many clips of me dying to a heavy half way across the map, Heavy's camping on roof's or bridges and killing people on the ground from the sky, wtf is that? "Just run away and take cover" I can't dodge 1000 bullets Decrease the range and the Heavy will no longer be a topic of discussion.
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2013.02.04 00:07:00 - [28] - Quote Wicked Glory wrote: Then they turn around and kill you before you kill them And then what happens if you're not behind them? Oh wait you die, with absolutely no counterplay. That's bad game design. Literally every suit strafes faster than a heavy can track. What happens if you're not behind him? You've entered his kill zone, just like any other suit you accidentally wander onto. That's like complaining that you didn't check a corner and got blapped by a shotgun.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2013.02.04 00:07:00 - [29] - Quote Tregar Kerrigan wrote: Mass drivers are your friends sir. Hold range, lob grenades at them, and they go down fast enough. As people have said, it's about tools, and situation. If you get in a favorable position, the heavy dies every time. If the heavy gets you in a favorable position for him, you die every time. it's the way of the world. Not to mention Heavies are a really easy target for high-damage direct hits
arimal lavaren L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 186	Posted - 2013.02.04 00:08:00 - [30] - Quote Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote: gbghg wrote: In dust we have a thing known as roles and these roles have a rock paper scissors relationship. HMG beats AR at close range, AR beats HMG at medium range, sniper/LR beats AR at long range and so on in all their variations, this isn't a twitch shooter where everyone is on a level field, this is very much a right tool for the right job game. Honestly what is it with you people who think assault should be the sole dropsuit in this game So... are you dumb on purpose? Rock paper scissor rules: rock beats scissor scissor beats paper paper beats rock Dust imbalance rules: HMG beats AR HMG beats sniper HMG beats HMG HMG beats every class AR beats sniper AR beats AR snipers beat militia nubes miltia nubes beat snipers This rock paper scissor system that this game is said to have is nonexistent and ludicrous. Wake up. This is the most amusing post so far. I forgot dust only has 3 weapons, and HMG's beat snipers. I'm not sure what game every one else is playing but I see damage modded Gek's drop heavies within the disputed close - mid range on a regular basis. Not saying the HMG couldn't use some work, it certainly could use some kind of adjustment range, spool up, heat, any one of these would probably do it.



Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.