If half the players are snipers, then why aren't someone running around the edge of the map getting easy kills?

Seriously... CCP never outright nerfs a tactic, they usually wait a long long time before touching it. That's not just because they don't have the time, but also because it takes long for a counter to develop and lots of times a year or so passes before something emerges.

Snipers? No problem. Get some dropships and buddies and take em down. Hell a tank can do it. HELL why don't we just chase them down as infantry?

Bring out the Forge Gun and let the games begin!

Lob mass driver rounds in their general location and they usually start running.

Yea but at least snipers have to shoot at moving targets mostly, its not fish n a barrel that much

Probably because they hide in their redzone. This will be fixed once they remove any WP and SP gain from action in a redzone

I agree. Sniping is very low-skill, very safe, and very powerful. It isn't fun to deal with at all and needs to be reworked.



So you think snipers should require multiple people in a vehicle to take on? And if you go on foot you'll die to any half-competent sniper, assuming they're even in a place you can get to, and assuming you manage to bypass the rest of the sniper's team in the process.

Lol. I play sniper and understand them to some degree.

And we're at it ... again.

Bring out the Forge Gun and let the games begin!

You need to stop assuming that everyone who thinks snipers need to be toned down has never played as a sniper before.

I don't agree on the nerf to sniping.. damage potential was already cut down from the last build. I do agree with the overwhelming number of snipers as being a problem, though not one that CCP can fix with the way maps are now.

Lol. I won't stop. Why? Because even the basic sniper should know this after a while. By a while I mean like a couple of games.

You do know most of the snipers don't even cover objectives and are very easy to kill right? My squad rarely has trouble with enemy snipers because I take them out while watching 2 objectives. seriously this ain't call of duty, you need some basic strategy people.

As a forge gunner I will admit that I find snipers annoying, but that doesn't mean I'm going to call for the nerf bat. They're fine. I find they usually move or duck when I start lobbing forge rounds at them from across the map. I've even managed to hit a few of them. What also needs to be remembered is that if you put your sight on a sniper in the hills, it lights them up for your whole team to see, on the mini map if they're in range for that, or the chevron for anyone on your team looking that direction.

My point is that there are counters to everything in the game, including snipers. If they're in a position where they can't be hit by anything, then they're not in a position to shoot anything either. Then one or two well placed guys shouldn't have any problem keeping them pinned.

But like was mentioned above, when we get the full maps opened (because we're playing on an eighth or smaller section of the maps now), the dynamics of play will change a lot.

How am I wrong? For stating the obvious choice of tactics?

Someone's sniping you and you can't get to them from your position with your current fit.

What do you do? Take an alternative and deal with the enemy. As I have said in this thread you have a few options.

1. Vehicle suppressive fire
2. Swarming the area with Mercs looking for the enemy sniper(s)
3. The safest, and smartest route would be to counter-snipe.


>_> People here are just not used to *Adapt or Die*

I don't believe the whole team sees them if you spot just your squad.

32 Players - 17 Snipers. Counted. It's not even fun anymore. And don't tell me it takes skill, I've gone 12-0 with a militia sniper rifle, all you do is crouch, wait for dot to run red and fire. It's not even kitten funny anymore.

CCP Wolfman is redoing sniper rifles to have projectile travel time and bullet drop. Snipers will have to compensate for that and lead their targets to get kills. Its being worked on.

CCP Wolfman is redoing sniper rifles to have projectile travel time and bullet drop. Snipers will have to compensate for that and lead their targets to get kills. Its being worked on.

Thats the only reason why I miss last build's lag

can't wait, but I would rather have current snipers keep hit scan with a lower amount of damage (for the n00bs) and have a new heavy duty minmatar bullet drop sniper.

I agree. Sniping is very low-skill, very safe, and very powerful. It isn't fun to deal with at all and needs to be reworked.



So you think snipers should require multiple people in a vehicle to take on? And if you go on foot you'll die to any half-competent sniper, assuming they're even in a place you can get to, and assuming you manage to bypass the rest of the sniper's team in the process.

Actually...yes.

Think about it realisticly, a sniper vs an infantry guy....you think someone with an AR should be able to take out a sniper easy? Without utilizing cover? Without using skill to get closer? Ok so lets just make a sniper's range exactly the same as an ARs and while we're at it lets just take off the scopes too.

Honestly lets just grab that nerf bat and make all the players in proto gear able to be one shot with a smg from 500+ yards away. Lets Call of Duty this game right now before it gets anymore interesting.

I'll tell you what IS ruining the game, everyone wanting to swing the nerf bat. There are counters to snipers if you read the rest of the posts on here, shotguns, dropships, countersnipers, tanks, even LAVs. Try learning something else or running with competent players that can help you cover the aspects you are not geared to counter.

Lol. I play sniper and understand them to some degree.

If you can't do all of the things I said or don't want to? Guess what. Get a counter sniper. From my previous experience, you only need one to disrupt their "reign". They'll get edgy and paranoid and decide to not snipe after a while. And if they do continue to snipe. Well easy kills for the counter sniper. The counter sniper knows exactly where the redliners are and will be, so the counter sniper can move to many different locations to throw them off.

That's what I call the Sniping Cycle. They'll be too focused on killing you, their major threat, than taking down your teammates.

You can counter snipe in a basic militia fit *shrug* and learning to snipe isn't that hard.

Actually...yes.

Think about it realisticly

Honestly lets just grab that nerf bat and make all the players in proto gear able to be one shot with a smg from 500+ yards away. Lets Call of Duty this game right now before it gets anymore interesting.

Try learning something else or running with competent players that can help you cover the aspects you are not geared to counter.

You need to stop assuming that everyone who thinks snipers need to be toned down has never played as a sniper before.



First off, you're a tit for suggesting people pointing out flaws in the game are "crying". The only people I see in this thread are people who are trying to enjoy the game only to have it made less enjoyable due to snipers, and the people who think the reason they go 20/0 as a sniper is because they're skilled at sniping. There's nobody crying here except, at the idea that people haven't magically ceased to realize snipers are unbalanced.

The reason the topic has been brought up a lot is because snipers are still no fun for anyone but the sniper, and CCP hasn't done anything to change that. This topic will be brought up, ad infinitum, so long as that remains true. Unless CCP takes action, people will continue to be put off the game by snipers, and will voice their concerns about it on the forum. So get used to it.

I'm just going to stick my ore in here and say that Snipers, in their current form are the worst thing to remain in the modern (that is date wise, not setting wise) FPS genre. Back in the days of Unreal 99, yeah, they had their place, these days however they are over-romantisied. Portrayed as a lone wolf delivering justice one bullet at a time, away from the chain of command and free to act on his own.

The reality is, the modern portrayal of the sniper in FPS games released lately is totally off, an archaic design that didn't evolve with the genre. Everyone else now fills a role and works toward to goal of victory, everyone else supplies the team around them, revives them, leads them to victory and keeps their squad working as flexible, formidable fighting force. The 'Sniper' has absolutely no place in that paradigm.

Now I am not against snipers in concept, the reality is, every squad needs a way to deliver accurate, devastating fire. It increases the effective range of the unit as a whole and provides suppression against targets. Right now in a 14-vs-14 player game, you can guarantee, especially on that barren rock planet with the funny sloped rocky outcrops, that 9 out of those 14 on either team are Snipers and that ruins the game for everyone...

The "Sniper" Class needs to go and be replaced with a Designated Marksman type class. Those single shot rifles we have under Assault Rifles should be there's, not a fancy pants railgun. They should be focused on delivering lethal, accurate fire power down range but they should be doing it WITH the squad, give them a real reason to be out on the frontline with the rest of us... Take a leaf out of Bad Company 2's book and give them tools to aid in spotting and recon. Make them the target callers and give them means to see through Signal Dampening. Take away the incredibly dull "Sit on a hill and wait for a red dot" style of game play and give them a purpose in the team orientated paradigm.

And if we _DO_ keep the sniper class, there needs to be an incredibly harsh restriction on them, or add ballistics, see something like ArmA2 for that.. See games like Red Orchestra 2, that made it so there is no more than 1-2 per team depending on the map, because in reality, Snipers are a Platoon Level asset, there are about 2 snipers or 1 sniper team for every 50 men... and even then, a sniper will only fire 1-2 shots for an entire engagment... so many games ignore that these days.

Hope that wasn't too long for you all. Give your feedback please, but keep the flames away. If you disagree, why?

How about we think about it in the context of a video game instead?



And then let's write a bunch of useless hyperbole and act as if the game is perfectly balanced and there's no room for improvement.



I am a sniper. I am telling you and the other clowns, based on my not insignificant experience playing a sniper, that snipers are too effective and the counters people have been suggesting are mostly ****. You people always seem to think the only people advocating for sniper balance are the people being killed by snipers for some silly reason.

They only work on people who are bad at sniping. So I'm not surprised if you've seen them work over and over.

How about we think about it in the context of a video game instead?



And then let's write a bunch of useless hyperbole and act as if the game is perfectly balanced and there's no room for improvement.



I am a sniper. I am telling you and the other clowns, based on my not insignificant experience playing a sniper, that snipers are too effective and the counters people have been suggesting are mostly ****. You people always seem to think the only people advocating for sniper balance are the people being killed by snipers for some silly reason.

Anyway, words words, nobody cares, sniper rifles are being nerfed as they ought to be, thread over.

Anyway, words words, nobody cares, sniper rifles are being nerfed as they ought to be, thread over.

Don't think about it as being nerfed. Think of it as adding a player skill requirement that will make sniping a balanced and challenging role that a person could both enjoy and take pride in.

Travel time and drop are probably enough. Adding wind would be a bit much, I think. Too sniper sim-like.

The shots don't have tracers. Assault rifles do. I think scrambler pistols do too. Sniper rifles don't. They could use them, though, definitely.

well so much for going stealth and carrying a sniper rifle...guess it's either stealth nova or stealth smg...

You add tracers then a scout sniper becomes pointless, so the extra recoil red on the scout suit becomes pointless. I foresee a ton of heavy snipers, I mean you're gonna get spotted anyway so just max out your armor and shields and sit in one place.

I thought the point was to make the snipers require skill, not to make it required that after each shot you have to run for 5 minutes to reposition? I can see how this would be beneficial if all the matches were public matches, but they're not. A large portion of the player base will be participating in team based play, and against a halfway competent team, after that first shot they will be all over you with a tracer.

So yea if all you plan to do is play public matches against a bunch of randoms then a tracer makes sense otherwise not so much. Already alot of corps don't consider snipers a neccessary part of team matches, make them easier to spot and we might as well say so long to snipers playing any part in team based activity.

I think I agree with this, you lost me a little.

Tracers on sniper shots do not make any sense to me. The whole point is to sneak in, make your shot and disappear before anyone knows where the shot came from. It is the very essence of sniping. Scout snipers in the real world do less killing and more scouting. When they do make a shot, it is devastating and then they vanish like a fart in the wind. As Infinity has said more than once this does need to be thought of in a video game context, not a reality context. I agree sort of on that line, but not on tracers and not on the devastating effect that a sniper should have.

What I see with sniping now is an environmental shortcoming that comes from us all being packed into a small area. Tanks and dropships get flamed for the same reasons, as does missile splash damage. To really see how all these things will play out, give us a couple of opened up maps.

well snipers already have a bright flash. so yes, tracers would be pointless

Tracers on sniper shots do not make any sense to me. The whole point is to sneak in, make your shot and disappear before anyone knows where the shot came from. It is the very essence of sniping.

Tracers on sniper shots do not make any sense to me. The whole point is to sneak in, make your shot and disappear before anyone knows where the shot came from. It is the very essence of sniping. Scout snipers in the real world do less killing and more scouting. When they do make a shot, it is devastating and then they vanish like a fart in the wind. As Infinity has said more than once this does need to be thought of in a video game context, not a reality context. I agree sort of on that line, but not on tracers and not on the devastating effect that a sniper should have.
.

D*mn it Ccp just make all sniper rifles require a charge and be done. Does it really take someone whose nearly given up on this game to provide a decent balance method?

Yea I find it kinda funny that Infinity talks about thinking in video game context then has no issue with making the shooting more "realistic" with bullet drop and range etc.

Not saying those aren't needed, just think it's funny that he contradicts himself there lol.

NO! no charge for all snipers.

Just return the E3 build sniper sway and add bullet drop and travel time.

The flash isn't anything special, and gee whiz, what if you can't see the barrel of their gun? What if you aren't looking in their direction? Acting as if a little flash when a gun is fired is the same as a bright line going from the barrel of the gun to where the shot impacts are the same thing is pretty incredible. Do you really believe that stuff you said?



The essence of sniping is killing people from long range. Maybe in real life snipers rely on being unseen, but what does that have to do with Dust? And, incidentally, relying on stealth is a sure way to be killed. Snipers get spotted eventually. Period. The way to be successful isn't to pretend like you'll never be seen, like the fools most snipers are. It's to position yourself effectively so that, when you are seen, you can't be counter-sniped except by people who'll be staring down your gun barrel anyway.

The flash isn't anything special, and gee whiz, what if you can't see the barrel of their gun? What if you aren't looking in their direction? Acting as if a little flash when a gun is fired is the same as a bright line going from the barrel of the gun to where the shot impacts are the same thing is pretty incredible. Do you really believe that stuff you said?



The essence of sniping is killing people from long range. Maybe in real life snipers rely on being unseen, but what does that have to do with Dust? And, incidentally, relying on stealth is a sure way to be killed. Snipers get spotted eventually. Period. The way to be successful isn't to pretend like you'll never be seen, like the fools most snipers are. It's to position yourself effectively so that, when you are seen, you can't be counter-sniped except by people who'll be staring down your gun barrel anyway.

Exactly why not? It's a rail thats near identical to the small rail turret and i know from experience you don't spam the trigger

It has become clear now.

Yea I find it kinda funny that Infinity talks about thinking in video game context then has no issue with making the shooting more "realistic" with bullet drop and range etc.

Not saying those aren't needed, just think it's funny that he contradicts himself there lol.

its a big flash and it is pretty loud, meaning you don't have to see the muzzle of the gun or be looking in the direction they shot from. i can see when they shoot even if they are behind cover. use common sense please.

Because I want sniping to be more difficult not nerfed to uselessness.

It obviously hasn't.



You think it's funny because you aren't paying attention. I'm not advocating realism. I don't care about realism. Tracers and bullet drop and travel time for a railgun is most likely not realistic. What I'm advocating is gameplay. Every one of the reasons I've given is based on improving the game in some sense. I've never once said that X should be done because it would be more realistic. You clearly haven't taken the time to read any of my posts, and I am at a loss as to why you are responding to me at all.



The shot isn't audible unless you're at close range. The flash isn't any more noticeable than the flash of any other weapon. You have no idea what you're talking about.

I wouldn't mind at all if tracers, drop, travel time, and a charge were added to every sniper rifle. Although giving rifle a brief cocking delay after each shot might not be bad either. In any case, I liked the charge rifle a lot in Precursor. It's much worse in Codex due to the reduced damage overall, making one-hit-kills unlikely, but I think that rate of fire would be a very sensible direction to take sniper rifles. Some of the higher end ones, you can fire so quickly that a stationary target will take at least two hits before it can move.

That might be it right there. Although I am a sucker for a reload animation, if we just made all the Sniper Rifle's bolt action that would solve most of the complaints, wouldn't it?
Getting picked off by rapid fire snipers? He has a longer refire now, and has to upscope after a shot.
Being killed by a oneshot headshot? He kittening deserved that kill and you know it and give 'that enemy sniper' props.
You want a rapid fire long range gun? Grab a Tactical Assault Rifle, or as we call them in most shooters, a Marksman Rifle.

That might be it right there. Although I am a sucker for a reload animation, if we just made all the Sniper Rifle's bolt action that would solve most of the complaints, wouldn't it?
Getting picked off by rapid fire snipers? He has a longer refire now, and has to upscope after a shot.
Being killed by a oneshot headshot? He kittening deserved that kill and you know it and give 'that enemy sniper' props.
You want a rapid fire long range gun? Grab a Tactical Assault Rifle, or as we call them in most shooters, a Marksman Rifle.

But then what of all the other technology based advancements? I mean we have lasers but a sniper rifle is still bolt action? Also if CCP did this then they would have to make head shots kill everytime otherwise a sniper could NEVER kill a heavy and it would be difficult to kill proto suits.

I'm sure heavies would love this, but it just wouldn't make sense. Is range even a issue? Not really, cause the further away you get the more precise you have to be, especially when travel time and drop are implemented. Also the headshots become exponentially harder to make therefore your instant kills are almost non-existant and since you have to reload and then re-aim everytime after a shot they will be behind cover before you can line up your next shot.

There is a mix of reality and gaming that I'm apparently losing here.

I do not have a sniper tab on my arm, but a couple of friends and family do. Distance is not the essence of sniping. Professional snipers often make shots at very close range, so range is not the key factor. Key factors are being undetectable on approach and setup, making your kill shot without giving your position away, and moving out unscathed. Professional snipers also often do not have high kill counts compared to a frontline infantryman, they have tactical kills. They also spend more time on intel gathering/relaying than shooting.

If reality has nothing to do with the gaming world, even in a loose sense, then why have heavy armor, or assault rifles, or any other weapon/defense that is at least casually based on warfare as we know it?

Texas, never mind that you shot me the other night, I do agree that flashes work fine for counter sniping. Most snipers (hopefully) scan predictable perches and the flashes are a dead giveaway. Myself I never take more than 3 shots in the same spot and even then only if I have to for a kill. Still I do get spotted from time to time, though at this point only by a hand full of other snipers on 1 out of 4 maps. I spend roughly 50% of my scans as a sniper on potential spots where other snipers will be, and the flashes really point them out. One of the few interesting perks of sniping to me is when you are in a spot where you have a bead on a shooter, you know he sees you, and y'all duke it out. What else would make sniping fun?

:) I want a sniper rifle that fires derp rockets. That'll give people something to complain about.

Bring out the Forge Gun and let the games begin!

By and large I do agree with what Infinity has been preaching for no less than three months. Make snipers a skilled class. When the skill is there, make it a deadly class.

But then what of all the other technology based advancements? I mean we have lasers but a sniper rifle is still bolt action?

Also if CCP did this then they would have to make head shots kill everytime otherwise a sniper could NEVER kill a heavy and it would be difficult to kill proto suits.

Mods, please kill this thread. The sniper rifles are in decent conditions so there's no need for unnecessary nerfs.

Snipers? No problem. Get some dropships and buddies and take em down. Hell a tank can do it. HELL why don't we just chase them down as infantry?

By and large I do agree with what Infinity has been preaching for no less than three months. Make snipers a skilled class. When the skill is there, make it a deadly class.

I'd like to see changes to snipers by having more variables affecting their aim:

1. Atmospheric variable - affects bullet flight path
Solution = atmospheric computation module, this is a low slot computer that analyzes the wind and temperature and gives a readout of its findings and aiming corrections in the HUD.

2. Range/bullet drop variable - Remove yardage markers on infantry / items and add bullet drop.
Solution: range finder/bullet drop module, low slot module that displays the yardage of an item in the HUD and gives the sniper a good indication of how to compensate for bullet drop. Currently, yardage is given for free, it should cost to be able to use it.

3. Mil dots in HUD scopes, remove orange dot when on target.
Solution: when both the atmospheric and range finder module are used together, the HUD computes the best mil dot / minute calculation for down range success. No easy mode orange light when on target, just a suggestion from the combo computers telling what the best mil dots to use. Kinda works like a snipers spotter.

4. Sway - when scoped, rifle should always have a little sway. This needs to be in rhythm with one's stamina/heartbeat, less stamina means more sway. As the person settles down, the sway subsides but still has a small sway.
Solution = being able to go prone and use a bipod.

Has anybody noticed the snipers whom sit in their MCC and shoot people, kinda like fish in a barrel, hella thing about it is you cant kill those snipers. Whats being done with that??

[quote=Cortez The Killer]Refer to the description of the Sniper rifle: Shots fired currently move at a speed of 2,500 m/s.
2,500 meters in ONE SECOND. (Just to get my point across)
That's 750 meters in 0.3 seconds. (375 meters in 0.15 seconds)
That's not even in the range of a Sniper right now.

Aaaand we're still at it... might as well jump back in.



''I'll never look at it like this was some sort of shooting match, where the man with the most kills wins the gold medal,''
- Hathcock -



But back on topic... we went from nerfing, to making it more difficult. One claims more realism the other claims the scy-fy way.... In the end alot of opinions and trolling all accumulating to one point :


"What should really be done, what is doable and what should mosdef. NOT be done.

What should be done : remove redlining, on this at least we ALL agree.
What is doable : bulletdrop, limit total number of snipers/game etc.
What should mosdef NOT be done : tracers.

Why no tracers; dude thats like lighting fireworks after every kill you make. It is the most dumbest thing I have ever heard for a sniper class. Its like putting a reddot lasersight on a dropshipturret or putting a silencer on a tank...

The whole point of a sniper is not how many he offs, but when/where and who he kills. I never made those 20/0 scores some of you are bragging about, then again i'm on the right side of the red line... there where the action is. And I'm going solo and not with 3 squadmembers to help me out when in need. Since nobody is going after the snipers, we can also safely assume nobody is going after the 'countersnipers' or sniperhunters either...

If snipers are getting ridiculously nerfed by adding a shitload of bulletmechanisms, more recoil, cooldown etc then it will become an impossible classe to enjoy playing.

Previously with he lag it was indeed pretty cool; being obliged to 'front' your shot as to counter the lag, yeah that was almost realistic... but it shouldn't go much further then that. We'll end up taking 1minute/shot then run for 5 minutes till the fireworks are over and the cooldown ends... and what did we win.. NOT the kill since you all made me shoot the sob at least 5 times. By the time I can align my 3th shot Either I'm dead, he is healed or someone from my team stole my kill; result me ending up earning jack shlt.



I for one don't give a *beep* about kdr, leaderboards, squads or even corps for the moment. I just wanna play a fun game.
And for me shooting you from afar is indeed fun. If teammember is in need then I have the goods. If a objective is in need of hacking, yeah got that covered and hacked, If I have the need to become temporary cannonfodder then my suits are ready. If I need to take out a L/Hav then my suit is ready. If you want me to take 1 minute/kil and then run for 5 minutes and NOT earning any decent WP's... yeah not happening since that will kill the game...

Lob mass driver rounds in their general location and they usually start running.

32 Players - 17 Snipers. Counted. It's not even fun anymore. And don't tell me it takes skill, I've gone 12-0 with a militia sniper rifle, all you do is crouch, wait for dot to run red and fire. It's not even kitten funny anymore.

I have nothing against snipers and propose no changes to them currently, I'll just say this:

At least in skirmish, if the majority of any given team is sniping, they really aren't capturing objectives and it leads to an easy demise/redline match more often than not. That being said, maybe it would be neat if during the respawn screen (selecting loadout) it showed you how many people on your team are Assault, Scout, Logi, Heavy.

That way perhaps people might notice (that they may not otherwise) a lack of a certain role, and realize they could balance it a bit more by switching to a different kit.

I mean if nothing else it'd be a helpful tip/tool and I'm sure at least some people would acknowledge and benefit from it.

But back on topic... we went from nerfing, to making it more difficult.

Why no tracers; dude thats like lighting fireworks after every kill you make. It is the most dumbest thing I have ever heard for a sniper class. Its like putting a reddot lasersight on a dropshipturret or putting a silencer on a tank...

If snipers are getting ridiculously nerfed by adding a shitload of bulletmechanisms, more recoil, cooldown etc then it will become an impossible classe to enjoy playing.

I have nothing against snipers and propose no changes to them currently, I'll just say this:

At least in skirmish, if the majority of any given team is sniping, they really aren't capturing objectives and it leads to an easy demise/redline match more often than not. That being said, maybe it would be neat if during the respawn screen (selecting loadout) it showed you how many people on your team are Assault, Scout, Logi, Heavy.

That way perhaps people might notice (that they may not otherwise) a lack of a certain role, and realize they could balance it a bit more by switching to a different kit.

I mean if nothing else it'd be a helpful tip/tool and I'm sure at least some people would acknowledge and benefit from it.

You're the kind of person that needs to be driven away from the role, in that case. People who are doing it because it's an easy, safe way to kill ***** are the people we can afford to not want to play sniper any longer, once the new sniping mechanics are in.

See this is what I'm talking about....

I'd love to see a game mode where Snipers aren't allowed.

I am a sniper. I am telling you and the other clowns, based on my not insignificant experience playing a sniper, that snipers are too effective and the counters people have been suggesting are mostly ****. You people always seem to think the only people advocating for sniper balance are the people being killed by snipers for some silly reason.

Don't quit your day job, detective.

LOL. You're a sniper. Right. No, your alt called Fivetimes Infinity is a sniper, for the purposes of nerfing sniping. Nothing more, nothing less. And you haven't used that alt in weeks, as your kills have been at around 500 for 3 or 4 weeks. Come on man, you gotta put a little more thought into your backhanded approach. Too transparent as is.

You're the kind of person that needs to be driven away from the role, in that case. People who are doing it because it's an easy, safe way to kill ***** are the people we can afford to not want to play sniper any longer, once the new sniping mechanics are in.

If you have read ANY of my posts

What's there to be guilty of? Even if this were an alt, how would that be a valid criticism against any of the issues I've raised with sniping? It's a logical fallacy to assume that calling this character an alt or suggesting my intentions are untoward is anything like a response to my claim that sniping is too easy, too powerful, and too safe.

It should be a bit more realistic. We sould be able to hold our breath to prevent sway but only for a few seconds and depending on your adrenalin count like in the sniper: ghost warrior series

If you wasn't just another idiot forum warrior you'd realize that he actually does snipe and does a d*mn great job of it at that, your only argument is that he's a liar when he actually does what you claim he doesn't

The primary mission of a Scout Sniper is to support combat operations by delivering precise long-range fire on selected targets. By this, the sniper creates casualties among enemy troops, slows enemy movement, frightens enemy soldiers, lowers morale, and adds confusion to their operations. The secondary mission of the sniper is collecting and reporting battlefield information.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_Sniper

Stop crying like a bunch of bitches.


Semper Fi 93 - 01

Death On Contact

The primary mission of a Scout Sniper is to support combat operations by delivering precise long-range fire on selected targets. By this, the sniper creates casualties among enemy troops, slows enemy movement, frightens enemy soldiers, lowers morale, and adds confusion to their operations. The secondary mission of the sniper is collecting and reporting battlefield information.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_Sniper

Stop crying like a bunch of bitches.


Semper Fi 93 - 01

Death On Contact

Forum Admins- please move this thread to the "Feedback/Request" section, as this thread is about feedback. Thank you.

It's a criticism of your truthfulness, saying you snipe, and that's why you want things to change. It's obvious, as your teammate pointed out, that you're not a sniper, but just someone who hates sniping and wants it to end. That's fine. Nerf sniping, I don't care. The point is you're so painfully bad at trying to act like you're a sniper. Not everyone is good at this EVE song and dance, trying not make people think one thing for manipulation. I'm just pointing out how awful you are at it. Don't feel bad.

A lot of other people have punched HUGE holes in your arguements. I've read the threads. Like the fact that snipers don't do well WP, ISK, and SP wise because getting 14 kills will only net you 700 WP, whereas guys on the ground easily tally 800- 2000 WP for hacking, blowing up vehicles/turrets, and killing. None of your arguments work, and your attempt at manipulation is laughable.

I like this idea. It could drain your stamina when holding breath

Yes I think that would work great. You could also design the sniper rifle skill around that, so that the sniper rifle skill could reduce the amount of stamina per second that is used to steady the scope.

It would take longer to kill a full health heavy (or anyone) but that's the point. These suggestions aren't designed to keep snipers at the same level of power. They're nerfs. I want to see sniping weaker. Taking longer to land multiple hits on people would contribute to that end.

Uh, yeah, that's the entire point. As I said when I suggested tracers, the whole idea is to make your position known so it's easier for people to find and kill you. Currently, with sniping, you can go entire games without someone so much as taking a shot at you. Sniping would be more dangerous if you couldn't do it and stay unseen. That would be a positive change, in my view.

They didn't stick out last patch and it didn't change much. Snipers were still very powerful. Even on that really foggy map with the rock spires, even if you couldn't actually see them, you could usually shoot them just based on their red arrow.



Nobody cares about your hurt feelings. If you don't have something about sniping to say, don't post.

This +1

This is all we need, nothing more.

But there is my point a sniper SHOULD be able to take out any other 1 person. Add the skill requirements but not to the point that they can't get that kill unless their target stays in the same place for over 30 seconds.

I know this isn't realistic but in the terms of a game, someone gets hit by a sniper and tries to duck behind cover. Most players have armor reppers at this point so...the sniper gets a head shot on a heavy, but he doesn't die. Currently they can make a second and possibly 3rd shot to finish off the heavy before he gets to cover, if you add more time before the next shot that heavy will be behind cover and letting his armor repper get him back to full strength. Essentially no kill there.

As for the proto gear having the same hp, I don't know whether or not it does, but I do know it has more CPU/PG. So you can put bigger HP and shield boosting modules on it. Same scenarion as the heavy, that proto gear gets to cover even faster than a heavy so again...no kill there.

You all want to nerf the sniper or rather "make the sniper harder to use" all your suggestions besides the bullet drop and travel time(which is already going to be implemented) would not just make the sniper harder to use but make it basically useless.

Tracer: No issues for pub matches but a death warrant in Corporation battles

Bolt Action: The ONLY thing you would be able to 1-shot(and actually kill) would be standard and militia dropsuits of the Logi/Assault/Scout classes. And that's only if they haven't teched to allow them to use shield and hp extenders of some sort.

I support a higher skill requirement, but don't want to see it useless.

It should be a bit more realistic. We sould be able to hold our breath to prevent sway but only for a few seconds and depending on your adrenalin count like in the sniper: ghost warrior series

If you want to be realistic, then you should realize marksmen don't hold their breath to improve their accuracy. It's some stupid effect some COD-style game put in years ago and everyone has copied.

Sniping and camping, has always been and will always be, a part of shooting games. I remember that Atari tank game and camping with perfectly lined up shots that bounced around the map. It's called a strategy. In most cases, a reliable and sound strategy.

If you like running around blasting away, that's perfectly fine. I prefer you do. Makes it easier to pick you off.

And again I will state that for pub matches sure but for Corp matches it makes Snipers COMPLETELY useless. I think sacrificing competitive effectiveness for those who just want to run around killing stuff in public matches is wrong and can't believe you still refuse to acknoledge this comment I've made several times.

Is that because you know that it would destroy the sniper as a competitive class?

It's not his "hurt feelings" it's your bad attitude he was refferring to. As he stated about you doing to others, you didn't apologize, or address the issue, all you did was belittle him and continue spewing garbage.

But there is my point a sniper SHOULD be able to take out any other 1 person. Add the skill requirements but not to the point that they can't get that kill unless their target stays in the same place for over 30 seconds.

I know this isn't realistic but in the terms of a game, someone gets hit by a sniper and tries to duck behind cover. Most players have armor reppers at this point so...the sniper gets a head shot on a heavy, but he doesn't die. Currently they can make a second and possibly 3rd shot to finish off the heavy before he gets to cover, if you add more time before the next shot that heavy will be behind cover and letting his armor repper get him back to full strength. Essentially no kill there.

32 Players - 17 Snipers. Counted. It's not even fun anymore. And don't tell me it takes skill, I've gone 12-0 with a militia sniper rifle, all you do is crouch, wait for dot to run red and fire. It's not even kitten funny anymore.

I've pretty much found the opposite to be true.

It's almost impossible to get a 1 hit kill with a sniper rifle - even a fully charged charge sniper. (unless you get a headshot, which can be very difficult if there's even the slightest bit of lag, and since this is a FPS, with no cover mechanic or any sort of fatigue mechanic that would cause people to stop and rest, everyone's running all the time).

And it's not as simple as waiting for the dot to turn red. Quite often, I've been shooting at a stationary target - reticle centered perfectly on them, and I couldn't even get a hit marker - and I wasn't that far away to be out of range.

So far, the only sniper setup I'm starting to find reliable is to double-tap with the Tactical Sniper Rifle.

That being said, I have encountered some very capable enemy snipers, with the best sniper rifles and profile dampners, but never to the extent of snipers being half of the enemy team.

CCP Wolfman is redoing sniper rifles to have projectile travel time and bullet drop. Snipers will have to compensate for that and lead their targets to get kills. Its being worked on.

How big of a drop are we talking? Sniper Rifles are basically rail guns so I don't imagine they have travel time and drop. That being said I don't mind them making snipers more skill (personal skill) intensive.

no one knows the specifics, but good times ahead

I belive snipers is a good thing. It took me 20 seconds to respawn, run around to were the sniper were sitting, sneaking up behind him and meele the f*****er to death.. I left that game quite satisfied.. I, however, do not aprove of snipers beeing allowed to sit outside the red border..

How big of a drop are we talking? Sniper Rifles are basically rail guns so I don't imagine they have travel time and drop. That being said I don't mind them making snipers more skill (personal skill) intensive.

should just be removed imo

You can not remove sniper rifles from a first person shooter, that's like removing muscle cars from forza 4 or gt5.

Nah. Dust would be a better game without snipers. Of course, they'd be constantly peppered with threads here about adding sniper rifles, but that's not so bad. As-is, sniping contributes essentially nothing to the game. The people being sniped may as well just be stepping on invisible claymores or landmines or something added by the game at the start of the match. Oops, you walked in this spot and magically took some damage, that sucks. Gotta take a few seconds to heal and then carry on, hope you don't hit another one. Snipers and the people they're sniping are playing two completely separate games.

On power, and such, I think sniper rifles should be high-powered enough to 1-shot infantry, but that they should be hard to use. Slow RoF, bullet-drop, and travel time. This type of system rewards the dedicated sniper, and deters the cowardly pot-shotter. At least then, you feel a bit of respect for the guy that popped your head from the other side of the map...

I don't find snipers a problem, most of them are very predictable, and easy to kill once you get close to them. And a team full up with snipers never wins the match anyway. Just learn to deal with them, they really are not such a big problem.

32 Players - 17 Snipers. Counted. It's not even fun anymore. And don't tell me it takes skill, I've gone 12-0 with a militia sniper rifle, all you do is crouch, wait for dot to run red and fire. It's not even kitten funny anymore.

How big of a drop are we talking? Sniper Rifles are basically rail guns so I don't imagine they have travel time and drop. That being said I don't mind them making snipers more skill (personal skill) intensive.

Sniper has always been a support role; you either eliminate a single hard threat to your team (usually enemy support), soften targets to reduce friendly casualties, or harass them into hard cover.
The various races should prefer one or another of these based on their philosophy.

For example:

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Amarr

Scrambler GÇô Harassment:

- Shortest effective range.
- Highest proportional optimal range.
- Fastest bullet travel time.
- No drop.
- Shots lose damage beyond optimal range and dissipate entirely at effective range.
- Excellent Shield damage, medium Armour damage.
- Lowest recoil.
- Lowest damage.
- Fastest rate of fire.

An Amarrian scrambler sniper rifle would fit very well when it comes to harassing enemies into cover. A combination of extreme projectile speed, low recoil, and the ability to put many shots down range in short time - despite low damage and reach - would enable the user to fill much the same role as the Laser Rifle at sniper ranges but without the same level of sustained fire or crowd control.

---

Minmatar

Artillery GÇô Anti Materiel:

- Medium effective range.
- Shortest proportional optimal range.
- Slowest bullet travel time.
- Extreme drop beyond optimal range, bullet falls straight down at effective range.
- Damage does not decrease at any range.
- Excellent Armour damage, medium Shield damage.
- Highest recoil.
- Highest damage.
- Lowest rate of fire.

A Minmatar artillery sniper rifle would be unmatched at the GÇ£one shot one killGÇ¥ mantra, but sacrifices almost everything else to do so. The extremely low rate of fire means that priority targets are prefered (indeed, users would need to endure slow reloads between shots); the high recoil makes even the models with 2 shots unwieldy; the extreme bullet drop requires significant skill to use on moving targets; finally the mediocre range requires the user to get somewhat close to the target. The upshot is that these rifles can even pose a threat to lightly armoured vehicles.

---

Caldari/Gallente

Railgun GÇô Target softening.

- Farthest effective range.
- Medium proportional optimal range.
- Medium bullet travel time.
- Medium drop beyond optimal range.
- Damage decreases beyond optimal range, 25% at effective range.
- Medium Shield and Armour damage.
- Medium recoil.
- Medium damage.
- Medium rate of fire.

Both the Caldari and Gallente employ Railgun technology with regards to sniper rifles. Both racial variants focus on softening targets but are generally flexible. The Caldari version trades some rate of fire and damage in exchange for range and faster projectiles with less drop; making it more suited to finish off wounded or weak targets. The Gallente version leans the other way: sacrificing range and projectile speed for increased damage and rate of fire with increased drop; for applying initial hits on general infantry, or additional support against hardened targets.

---

This leaves us with a bunch of sniper rifles of varying calibres for various uses and with different types of tactics incentivised. This also prompts a change to sniper rifle stats, as right now snipers are constantly in their optimal range.

Thoughts? Are these acceptable compromises? Would it reduce the amount of sniper spam?

Sniping is not as easy as it should be. You have to be on the exact pixel the character is or you miss. The damage is laughable. Lots of times when I hit some one they just move back let their shields regen then go back to what they were doing. Even crouched the controls are horrible. --snip AR rambling--

A sniper is by definition difficult to reach, and difficult to counter.

The previous suggestions (flanking, HAV, DS, counter Sniper) are exactly how we remove enemy snipers in real life. I'm sure we would love to remove/nerf sniping in real life, but since that's not an option, we kill them using other more reasonable tactics.

Also I believe over half the other team in the current actual wars are snipers... nerfs would make cleaning out Afghanistan so much easier.

I would like to see some bullet drop though. That's just fun

A sniper is by definition difficult to reach, and difficult to counter.

Sniping is not as easy as it should be. You have to be on the exact pixel the character is or you miss. The damage is laughable. Lots of times when I hit some one they just move back let their shields regen then go back to what they were doing. Even crouched the controls are horrible. I turned the x and y and dead zone as low as the go and barely press on direction and i jumps over way too fast. I love to snipe in games like this it takes more talent then the pray and spray is see soo many doing. How is infantry any fun just run around and spray bullet you will get plenty of kills. I don't even really have to aim most of the time just point and spray and woot +50 kill.

One thing that could be done is to give snipers the highest scan profiles instead of the lowest.

You guys revived a threat, that hadnt been dealt with for 3 months(november). I take in 3-4 months time, you wont whine about snipers, because you all got better gear and know how to count them.

When all comes to all, half of you are annoyed, that you are getting shot by snipers behind the redline, in a skirmish match, after your team has all the objectives and are winning, but which isnt enough for you, you have to go camp the MCC area.

I'm not saying, I dont think its common logic to move on and prevent the enemy team from reaching the objectives, but I sure as hell dont whine about snipers needing a nerf, when I get shot by a sniper, while im "camping" the redline

How big of a drop are we talking? Sniper Rifles are basically rail guns so I don't imagine they have travel time and drop. That being said I don't mind them making snipers more skill (personal skill) intensive.

This isn't real life, it's a game. One which is not meant to simulate real life. So no, by definition they aren't anything. They're whatever they need to be in order to make them a fun and worthwhile addition to the game.

I do crouch but the controls are too sensitive and jumpy to dial in on a character. If they made the scope move at 1/4th or even slower when zoomed in that would be amazing. That and hitting a moving target on the exact spot they seem to want is ridiculous. If they opened up the target area just a bit more it would be much more fun to snipe. Just would be nice if a person shot with a snipe rifle would actually die instead of having to get 2 lucky shots on them. Specially if you get a head shot. I can get a decent score normally playing sniper would just be more fun if we did better damage and had a better chance to hit. The close range weapons do not seem to have to be nearly as accurate as the sniper rifle.

yeah i will be off to say the left like 2 pixels then i just barely try to move left 2 it jumps like 10. then i try to swing back over the other way and it jumps again.

32 Players - 17 Snipers. Counted. It's not even fun anymore. And don't tell me it takes skill, I've gone 12-0 with a militia sniper rifle, all you do is crouch, wait for dot to run red and fire. It's not even kitten funny anymore.

Sorry Archon ur one of the good ones.