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Snipers Are Ruining The Game

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Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2012.11.04 17:00:00 - [1] - Quote 32 Players - 17 Snipers. Counted. It's not even fun anymore. And don't tell me it takes skill, I've gone 12-0 with a militia sniper rifle, all you do is crouch, wait for dot to run red and fire. It's not even kitten funny anymore.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2049	Posted - 2012.11.04 17:04:00 - [2] - Quote should just be removed imo
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 437	Posted - 2012.11.04 17:18:00 - [3] - Quote If half the players are snipers, then why aren't someone running around the edge of the map getting easy kills? Seriously... CCP never outright nerfs a tactic, they usually wait a long long time before touching it. That's not just because they don't have the time, but also because it takes long for a counter to develop and lots of times a year or so passes before something emerges.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2012.11.04 17:21:00 - [4] - Quote Snipers? No problem. Get some dropships and buddies and take em down. Hell a tank can do it. HELL why don't we just chase them down as infantry?
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2012.11.04 17:21:00 - [5] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: If half the players are snipers, then why aren't someone running around the edge of the map getting easy kills? Seriously... CCP never outright nerfs a tactic, they usually wait a long long time before touching it. That's not just because they don't have the time, but also because it takes long for a counter to develop and lots of times a year or so passes before something emerges. Probably because they hide in their redzone. This will be fixed once they remove any WP and SP gain from action in a redzone
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.04 17:21:00 - [6] - Quote You know what's really awesome? Being a Shotgun/SMG guy in a sniper-heavy match. SO many free kills while they're scoped and aiming for someone else. And a fair amount of laughter when you never even see they guy who caps you right after.
Azraen Kador 10	Posted - 2012.11.04 17:21:00 - [7] - Quote It should be a bit more realistic. We sould be able to hold our breath to prevent sway but only for a few seconds and depending on your adrenalin count like in the sniper: ghost warrior series
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.11.04 17:24:00 - [8] - Quote Yea but at least snipers have to shoot at moving targets mostly, its not fish n a barrel that much
The Polish Hammer Doomheim 373	Posted - 2012.11.04 17:25:00 - [9] - Quote Bring out the Forge Gun and let the games begin!
Crm234 Wraith Shadow Guards 166	Posted - 2012.11.04 17:45:00 - [10] - Quote I'm not a big fan of snipers in games , but do understand the appeal of them. I think the biggest problem with Snipers in Dust is that no one can shoot back at them unless you are a Sniper. There not crafty , stealth , skilled aimers. I can see you on the cliff or on the peak somewhere to the size that i Could head shot you with no scope. Its the ranges of these weapons that make the Sniper class such a huge problem even after range skill increases. Even if you can hit them the scout class can be modulated into being a heavy with HP leaving me to shoot at them 30 times where I only have to be hit twice.

Governor Odius Doomheim 177	Posted - 2012.11.04 17:57:00 - [11] - Quote Snipers have always been the greatest source of frustration for me in this game. Doot-dee-doo I'm walking around and suddently "plink" all my shields are gone and I'm at half armor. That's if they're not using a good rifle. That said, that's kinda how they're supposed to work. When I'm able to get in my dropship with a friend (not these gorram blue dots I'm usually forced to use as gunners) they're a delight to blow up.
steadyhand amarr Imperfects Negative-Feedback 338	Posted - 2012.11.04 18:00:00 - [12] - Quote hmmm i have noticed this problem myself, as i spend half my games counter sniping ...(so many kills) however their is not much the devs can do , if people want to snipe they will, just going to have to squad up with people you like and start carrying your team.
ugg reset ZionTCD Legacy Rising 234	Posted - 2012.11.04 18:05:00 - [13] - Quote those are the games where you call in your DS. dosent matter how high they climb, you can fly higher.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.04 18:14:00 - [14] - Quote I agree. Sniping is very low-skill, very safe, and very powerful. It isn't fun to deal with at all and needs to be reworked. Roy Ventus wrote: Snipers? No problem. Get some dropships and buddies and take em down. Hell a tank can do it. HELL why don't we just chase them down as infantry? So you think snipers should require multiple people in a vehicle to take on? And if you go on foot you'll die to any half-competent sniper, assuming they're even in a place you can get to, and assuming you manage to bypass the rest of the sniper's team in the process.
McFurious BetaMax. 67	Posted - 2012.11.04 18:27:00 - [15] - Quote The Polish Hammer wrote: Bring out the Forge Gun and let the games begin! Lob mass driver rounds in their general location and they usually start running.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1062	Posted - 2012.11.04 18:33:00 - [16] - Quote When there are so many snipers, an HAV is unstoppable
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2049	Posted - 2012.11.04 18:34:00 - [17] - Quote McFurious wrote: The Polish Hammer wrote: Bring out the Forge Gun and let the games begin! Lob mass driver rounds in their general location and they usually start running. All you have to do to avoid mass drivers at a long range is move over 5 steps.
Ramp4rt Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2012.11.04 18:38:00 - [18] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Yea but at least snipers have to shoot at moving targets mostly, its not fish n a barrel that much My skill are so low this build that it usually takes two shots to take out most infantry. You would be amazed at the number of folks who stand still for this.
Jax GG Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 84	Posted - 2012.11.04 18:43:00 - [19] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Probably because they hide in their redzone. This will be fixed once they remove any WP and SP gain from action in a redzone I'm not sure it will remove it. In a clone battle, they can still win you the match regardless of SP/WP. For me this is all a catch22. The insane amounts of missile spewing monsters are driving people back to their own MCC, when this happens preople either quit or pick up a snipers rifle..... and guess what.... they find it isn't that hard. Suddenly, everyone is sniping.........
Moonracer2000 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 315	Posted - 2012.11.04 18:44:00 - [20] - Quote Sniper is just the go to class for a lot of gamers because it sounds the most logical "420sniper be hitting a bong, sitting back on a hill getting mad kills" But honestly I feel like only 1/4 of the snipers that I've encountered are any good. Give the game time and a lot of them will move on to other classes. I must give props to the good snipers though. When I flank an entire team and start to hack a flag on their side of the map when they are redlining my team and I get one shot killed. The sniper doing their job covering the flags when others are just going for easy kills. Nicely played.

Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2012.11.04 18:50:00 - [21] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: I agree. Sniping is very low-skill, very safe, and very powerful. It isn't fun to deal with at all and needs to be reworked. Roy Ventus wrote: Snipers? No problem. Get some dropships and buddies and take em down. Hell a tank can do it. HELL why don't we just chase them down as infantry? So you think snipers should require multiple people in a vehicle to take on? And if you go on foot you'll die to any half-competent sniper, assuming they're even in a place you can get to, and assuming you manage to bypass the rest of the sniper's team in the process. Lol. I play sniper and understand them to some degree. If you can't do all of the things I said or don't want to? Guess what. Get a counter sniper. From my previous experience, you only need one to disrupt their "reign". They'll get edgy and paranoid and decide to not snipe after a while. And if they do continue to snipe. Well easy kills for the counter sniper. The counter sniper knows exactly where the redliners are and will be, so the counter sniper can move to many different locations to throw them off. That's what I call the Sniping Cycle. They'll be too focused on killing you, their major threat, than taking down your teammates. You can counter snipe in a basic militia fit shrug and learning to snipe isn't that hard.
Tenchu-13 What The French 76	Posted - 2012.11.04 19:27:00 - [22] - Quote And we're at it ... again. If you all keep crying like this we will all end up in militia assault gear in 5 meter wide corridors fighting againt peeps lined up on the other side (just to make sure you all can hit someone)... As in "blindly shoot forward guys, you simply can't miss'em" This topic has been raised over and over and over again... just freaking anticipate snipers by taking cover or get a countersniper. There is nothing more easy then to take out some lone hound trying to take cover in the mountains. Yes I agree the red-line thingy should be removed asap, the rest is all up to you and your team. Don't have any sort of countersniper-action going on in your team then indeed prepare to die, or just switch gear yourself and go after them... - a sniper-rifle carrying dude who refuses to sit behind the red line, but who will kill you if not behind some sort of cover... -
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.04 19:34:00 - [23] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Lol. I play sniper and understand them to some degree. You need to stop assuming that everyone who thinks snipers need to be toned down has never played as a sniper before. Tenchu-13 wrote: And we're at it ... again. First off, you're a tit for suggesting people pointing out flaws in the game are "crying". The only people I see in this thread are people who are trying to enjoy the game only to have it made less enjoyable due to snipers, and the people who think the reason they go 20/0 as a sniper is because they're skilled at sniping. There's nobody crying here except, at the idea that people haven't magically ceased to realize snipers are unbalanced. The reason the topic has been brought up a lot is because snipers are still no fun for anyone but the sniper, and CCP hasn't done anything to change that. This topic will be brought up, ad infinitum, so long as that remains true. Unless CCP takes action, people will continue to be put off the game by snipers, and will voice their concerns about it on the forum. So get used to it.
Vallud Eadesso Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 63	Posted - 2012.11.04 19:47:00 - [24] - Quote I'm just going to stick my ore in here and say that Snipers, in their current form are the worst thing to remain in the modern (that is date wise, not setting wise) FPS genre. Back in the days of Unreal 99, yeah, they had their place, these days however they are over-romantisied. Portrayed as a lone wolf delivering justice one bullet at a time, away from the chain of command and free to act on his own. The reality is, the modern portrayal of the sniper in FPS games released lately is totally off, an archaic design that didn't evolve with the genre. Everyone else now fills a role and works toward to goal of victory, everyone else supplies the team around them, revives them, leads them to victory and keeps their squad working as flexible, formidable fighting force. The 'Sniper' has absolutely no place in that paradigm. Now I am not against snipers in concept, the reality is, every squad needs a way to deliver accurate, devastating fire. It increases the effective range of the unit as a whole and provides suppression against targets. Right now in a 14-vs-14 player game, you can guarantee, especially on that barren rock planet with the funny sloped rocky outcrops, that 9 out of those 14 on either team are Snipers and that ruins the game for everyone... The "Sniper" Class needs to go and be replaced with a Designated Marksman type class. Those single shot rifles we have under Assault Rifles should be there's, not a fancy pants railgun. They should be focused on delivering lethal, accurate fire power down range but they should be doing it WITH the squad, give them a real reason to be out on the frontline with the rest of us... Take a leaf out of Bad Company 2's book and give them tools to aid in spotting and recon. Make them the target callers and give them means to see through Signal Dampening. Take away the incredibly dull "Sit on a hill and wait for a red dot" style of game play and give them a purpose in the team orientated paradigm. And if we _DO_ keep the sniper class, there needs to be an incredibly harsh restriction on them, or add ballistics, see something like ArmA2 for that.. See games like Red Orchestra 2, that made it so there is no more than 1-2 per team depending on the map, because in reality, Snipers are a Platoon Level asset, there are about 2 snipers or 1 sniper team for every 50 men... and even then, a sniper will only fire 1-2 shots for an entire engagment... so many games ignore that these days. Hope that wasn't too long for you all. Give your feedback please, but keep the flames away. If you disagree, why?
oneshytalk Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 71	Posted - 2012.11.04 19:52:00 - [25] - Quote got my sniper maxed out still takes 2 or 3 shots on most assault guys and more for heavy and takes as much skill as anything in this game you just dont like the fact they die less just like them who ride in a tank spoiling your game may be but some one or some thing all ways will
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2012.11.04 19:54:00 - [26] - Quote I use to have some respect for the good snipers, like gem cutter. But then I discovered that he just red line snipes like everyone else. -50 respect.
Cortez The Killer Immobile Infantry 190	Posted - 2012.11.04 20:13:00 - [27] - Quote I don't agree on the nerf to sniping.. damage potential was already cut down from the last build. I do agree with the overwhelming number of snipers as being a problem, though not one that CCP can fix with the way maps are now. Snipers by nature are supposed to be elusive, evasive, and deadly. Once the maps open up to the size they will be at release, the sniper class will become even more boring than it is now. Targets won't generally be bunched up in a tight ball like they are now, for one. There will be more aerial vehicles flying around, and more players on the field to counter them. Many more map varieties are also supposed to be added, each with a unique defensive layout, to make it harder to have a few "sweet spots". When it takes five minutes to sneak to a nice perch for a kill or two, then a few minutes more to get to another.. snipers won't be so popular. Even as it is, sniping is both pretty boring and produces less kills/WP (therefore less SP and ISK) than a halfway decent player on the ground in a militia fit. Even while getting sniped. Cortez here is my sniper, and a pretty good one. Once I got the rifle skills and sensor damp skills maxed out, he became my least used character. He's become mainly just the guy I get on when I want to irritate the crap out of people and, outside of headshots, can almost never one-shot a decent suit even with a Kaalakiota rifle and damage mod. My hopes are that with the release, the snipers main role will be forward intel/scout more concerned about being almost always unseen than being an easy kill generator. We'll see..
undeadsoldier90 UnReaL. 114	Posted - 2012.11.04 20:16:00 - [28] - Quote The Polish Hammer wrote: Bring out the Forge Gun and let the games begin! ^ you sir are my forum hero.......
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 172	Posted - 2012.11.04 20:50:00 - [29] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: Lol. I play sniper and understand them to some degree. You need to stop assuming that everyone who thinks snipers need to be toned down has never played as a sniper before. Lol. I won't stop. Why? Because even the basic sniper should know this after a while. By a while I mean like a couple of games.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.04 21:03:00 - [30] - Quote Cortez The Killer wrote: I don't agree on the nerf to sniping.. damage potential was already cut down from the last build. I do agree with the overwhelming number of snipers as being a problem, though not one that CCP can fix with the way maps are now. The damage is only one facet of it. Since Precursor the three things I'd been calling for are: Lower damage, bullet travel time, and a tracer added to the shot. We have the lower damage, thus reducing the chance for one-hit-kills. Bullet travel time needs to be added in order to make sniping actually take a decent bit of skill, and also to limit the power of the sniper rifles at very long ranges. This will encourage snipers to snipe from closer distances, and thus make them a more active participant in the fight. Tracers would, in turn, make sniping (especially solo, long distance sniping) more perilous, where currently it is incredibly safe because you can go whole games without anyone knowing where you're firing from. I have thousands of kills as a sniper across the past two builds. I do "very well" as a sniper in terms of KDR. These are the areas I believe snipers need to be changed in, and both this and the previous build I've made threads requesting CCP make these changes. I believe, objectively, that these changes would be a positive improvement for the game. Roy Ventus wrote: Lol. I won't stop. Why? Because even the basic sniper should know this after a while. By a while I mean like a couple of games. You should stop because you're wrong, and the game doesn't work on such arbitrary rules as you imagine it does.



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