DUST Search - Snipers Are Ruining The Game

Scurvy Granger wrote:

Fivetimes Infinity wrote:

Travel time and drop are probably enough. Adding wind would be a bit much, I think. Too sniper sim-like.

The shots don't have tracers. Assault rifles do. I think scrambler pistols do too. Sniper rifles don't. They could use them, though, definitely.

well so much for going stealth and carrying a sniper rifle...guess it's either stealth nova or stealth smg...

You add tracers then a scout sniper becomes pointless, so the extra recoil red on the scout suit becomes pointless. I foresee a ton of heavy snipers, I mean you're gonna get spotted anyway so just max out your armor and shields and sit in one place.

I thought the point was to make the snipers require skill, not to make it required that after each shot you have to run for 5 minutes to reposition? I can see how this would be beneficial if all the matches were public matches, but they're not. A large portion of the player base will be participating in team based play, and against a halfway competent team, after that first shot they will be all over you with a tracer.

So yea if all you plan to do is play public matches against a bunch of randoms then a tracer makes sense otherwise not so much. Already alot of corps don't consider snipers a neccessary part of team matches, make them easier to spot and we might as well say so long to snipers playing any part in team based activity.


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Cortez The Killer Immobile Infantry 190	Posted - 2012.11.04 20:13:00 - [1] - Quote I don't agree on the nerf to sniping.. damage potential was already cut down from the last build. I do agree with the overwhelming number of snipers as being a problem, though not one that CCP can fix with the way maps are now. Snipers by nature are supposed to be elusive, evasive, and deadly. Once the maps open up to the size they will be at release, the sniper class will become even more boring than it is now. Targets won't generally be bunched up in a tight ball like they are now, for one. There will be more aerial vehicles flying around, and more players on the field to counter them. Many more map varieties are also supposed to be added, each with a unique defensive layout, to make it harder to have a few "sweet spots". When it takes five minutes to sneak to a nice perch for a kill or two, then a few minutes more to get to another.. snipers won't be so popular. Even as it is, sniping is both pretty boring and produces less kills/WP (therefore less SP and ISK) than a halfway decent player on the ground in a militia fit. Even while getting sniped. Cortez here is my sniper, and a pretty good one. Once I got the rifle skills and sensor damp skills maxed out, he became my least used character. He's become mainly just the guy I get on when I want to irritate the crap out of people and, outside of headshots, can almost never one-shot a decent suit even with a Kaalakiota rifle and damage mod. My hopes are that with the release, the snipers main role will be forward intel/scout more concerned about being almost always unseen than being an easy kill generator. We'll see..
Cortez The Killer Immobile Infantry 190	Posted - 2012.11.05 01:37:00 - [2] - Quote I'm all for the bullet drop, windage even if it is feasable though I'd guess it wouldn't be worth the programming hassle. For the tracers, not so keen on that one. Don't bullets already have a smoke trail that does about the same thing for picking up the direction of fire? I'm looking forward to the drop characteristics, or whatever is being reworked. As fun as it is to pop a guy out of his LAVs driver seat at 600m even now, it would be much more of an accomplishment if range had to be calculated and compensated for. Knocking a dropship gunner out would be hero stuff..
Cortez The Killer Immobile Infantry 190	Posted - 2012.11.05 03:34:00 - [3] - Quote Scurvy Granger wrote: Fivetimes Infinity wrote: Travel time and drop are probably enough. Adding wind would be a bit much, I think. Too sniper sim-like. The shots don't have tracers. Assault rifles do. I think scrambler pistols do too. Sniper rifles don't. They could use them, though, definitely. well so much for going stealth and carrying a sniper rifle...guess it's either stealth nova or stealth smg... You add tracers then a scout sniper becomes pointless, so the extra recoil red on the scout suit becomes pointless. I foresee a ton of heavy snipers, I mean you're gonna get spotted anyway so just max out your armor and shields and sit in one place. I thought the point was to make the snipers require skill, not to make it required that after each shot you have to run for 5 minutes to reposition? I can see how this would be beneficial if all the matches were public matches, but they're not. A large portion of the player base will be participating in team based play, and against a halfway competent team, after that first shot they will be all over you with a tracer. So yea if all you plan to do is play public matches against a bunch of randoms then a tracer makes sense otherwise not so much. Already alot of corps don't consider snipers a neccessary part of team matches, make them easier to spot and we might as well say so long to snipers playing any part in team based activity. I think I agree with this, you lost me a little. Tracers on sniper shots do not make any sense to me. The whole point is to sneak in, make your shot and disappear before anyone knows where the shot came from. It is the very essence of sniping. Scout snipers in the real world do less killing and more scouting. When they do make a shot, it is devastating and then they vanish like a fart in the wind. As Infinity has said more than once this does need to be thought of in a video game context, not a reality context. I agree sort of on that line, but not on tracers and not on the devastating effect that a sniper should have. What I see with sniping now is an environmental shortcoming that comes from us all being packed into a small area. Tanks and dropships get flamed for the same reasons, as does missile splash damage. To really see how all these things will play out, give us a couple of opened up maps.
Cortez The Killer Immobile Infantry 190	Posted - 2012.11.05 06:14:00 - [4] - Quote There is a mix of reality and gaming that I'm apparently losing here. I do not have a sniper tab on my arm, but a couple of friends and family do. Distance is not the essence of sniping. Professional snipers often make shots at very close range, so range is not the key factor. Key factors are being undetectable on approach and setup, making your kill shot without giving your position away, and moving out unscathed. Professional snipers also often do not have high kill counts compared to a frontline infantryman, they have tactical kills. They also spend more time on intel gathering/relaying than shooting. If reality has nothing to do with the gaming world, even in a loose sense, then why have heavy armor, or assault rifles, or any other weapon/defense that is at least casually based on warfare as we know it? Texas, never mind that you shot me the other night, I do agree that flashes work fine for counter sniping. Most snipers (hopefully) scan predictable perches and the flashes are a dead giveaway. Myself I never take more than 3 shots in the same spot and even then only if I have to for a kill. Still I do get spotted from time to time, though at this point only by a hand full of other snipers on 1 out of 4 maps. I spend roughly 50% of my scans as a sniper on potential spots where other snipers will be, and the flashes really point them out. One of the few interesting perks of sniping to me is when you are in a spot where you have a bead on a shooter, you know he sees you, and y'all duke it out. What else would make sniping fun?
Cortez The Killer Immobile Infantry 190	Posted - 2012.11.05 06:38:00 - [5] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Fivetimes Infinity wrote: I wouldn't mind at all if tracers, drop, travel time, and a charge were added to every sniper rifle. Although giving rifle a brief cocking delay after each shot might not be bad either. In any case, I liked the charge rifle a lot in Precursor. It's much worse in Codex due to the reduced damage overall, making one-hit-kills unlikely, but I think that rate of fire would be a very sensible direction to take sniper rifles. Some of the higher end ones, you can fire so quickly that a stationary target will take at least two hits before it can move. That might be it right there. Although I am a sucker for a reload animation, if we just made all the Sniper Rifle's bolt action that would solve most of the complaints, wouldn't it? Getting picked off by rapid fire snipers? He has a longer refire now, and has to upscope after a shot. Being killed by a oneshot headshot? He kittening deserved that kill and you know it and give 'that enemy sniper' props. You want a rapid fire long range gun? Grab a Tactical Assault Rifle, or as we call them in most shooters, a Marksman Rifle. I am a sucker for the bolt action, even if only for nostalgia. I've been mostly off the sniper for two weeks almost.. these ideas are making me hawt..
Cortez The Killer Immobile Infantry 190	Posted - 2012.11.05 06:58:00 - [6] - Quote By and large I do agree with what Infinity has been preaching for no less than three months. Make snipers a skilled class. When the skill is there, make it a deadly class.
Cortez The Killer Immobile Infantry 190	Posted - 2012.11.06 20:49:00 - [7] - Quote dudeytron wrote: I'd love to see a game mode where Snipers aren't allowed. There are corp matches already that are for infantry only. CCP didn't have to do anything. If there are enough people that want to have fun but leave out any part or parts of it, the players can do that. Corp battles in all milita fits happen too, and so on. This is all good and well until a planet/system that your corp controls comes under attack. Honor fites go out the window at that point. These will be corp and alliance controlled battles though too, so lazy snipers probably won't be there much.
Cortez The Killer Immobile Infantry 190	Posted - 2012.11.06 22:53:00 - [8] - Quote SingleTap wrote: Fivetimes Infinity wrote: I am a sniper. I am telling you and the other clowns, based on my not insignificant experience playing a sniper, that snipers are too effective and the counters people have been suggesting are mostly ***. You people always seem to think the only people advocating for sniper balance are the people being killed by snipers for some silly reason. LOL. You're a sniper. Right. No, your alt called Fivetimes Infinity is a sniper*, for the purposes of nerfing sniping. Nothing more, nothing less. And you haven't used that alt in weeks, as your kills have been at around 500 for 3 or 4 weeks. Come on man, you gotta put a little more thought into your backhanded approach. Too transparent as is. I don't understand. You seem to feel like you've unlocked the mysteries of the universe for outing a player that practically wears the "I'm a sniper" t-shirt?
Cortez The Killer Immobile Infantry 190	Posted - 2012.11.07 02:56:00 - [9] - Quote SingleTap wrote: Fivetimes Infinity wrote: What's there to be guilty of? Even if this were an alt, how would that be a valid criticism against any of the issues I've raised with sniping? It's a logical fallacy to assume that calling this character an alt or suggesting my intentions are untoward is anything like a response to my claim that sniping is too easy, too powerful, and too safe. It's a criticism of your truthfulness, saying you snipe, and that's why you want things to change. It's obvious, as your teammate pointed out, that you're not a sniper, but just someone who hates sniping and wants it to end. That's fine. Nerf sniping, I don't care. The point is you're so painfully bad at trying to act like you're a sniper. Not everyone is good at this EVE song and dance, trying not make people think one thing for manipulation. I'm just pointing out how awful you are at it. Don't feel bad. A lot of other people have punched HUGE holes in your arguements. I've read the threads. Like the fact that snipers don't do well WP, ISK, and SP wise because getting 14 kills will only net you 700 WP, whereas guys on the ground easily tally 800- 2000 WP for hacking, blowing up vehicles/turrets, and killing. None of your arguments work, and your attempt at manipulation is laughable. You do not read much or pay attention much. He is one of the better snipers in the game. Most people that play ground infantry know that you can do better as an average infantryman (in terms of WP/SP/ISK) than you can as even an accurate sniper. You have punched holes in no arguements. You haven't even payed attention enough to see what the arguement is. I don't even agree with all he proposes, but there is no hole to punch in the fact that there are too many worthless snipers on the field. Especially as a Beta test, many players play many different roles and many different variations on those roles. When a tanker says "Ya this is so easy it isn't even fun", his comments are worth consideration, and if you have a better idea put it out.