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Saigo Mora
Doomheim
0
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Posted - 2013.01.30 15:48:00 -
[181] - Quote
One thing that could be done is to give snipers the highest scan profiles instead of the lowest. |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.01.30 15:53:00 -
[182] - Quote
Sniper has always been a support role; you either eliminate a single hard threat to your team (usually enemy support), soften targets to reduce friendly casualties, or harass them into hard cover. The various races should prefer one or another of these based on their philosophy.
For example:
Amarr Scrambler GÇô Harassment: - Shortest effective range. - Highest proportional optimal range. - Fastest bullet travel time. - No drop. - Shots lose damage beyond optimal range and dissipate entirely at effective range. - Excellent Shield damage, medium Armour damage. - Lowest recoil. - Lowest damage. - Fastest rate of fire.
An Amarrian scrambler sniper rifle would fit very well when it comes to harassing enemies into cover. A combination of extreme projectile speed, low recoil, and the ability to put many shots down range in short time - despite low damage and reach - would enable the user to fill much the same role as the Laser Rifle at sniper ranges but without the same level of sustained fire or crowd control.
Minmatar Artillery GÇô Anti Materiel: - Medium effective range. - Shortest proportional optimal range. - Slowest bullet travel time. - Extreme drop beyond optimal range, bullet falls straight down at effective range. - Damage does not decrease at any range. - Excellent Armour damage, medium Shield damage. - Highest recoil. - Highest damage. - Lowest rate of fire.
A Minmatar artillery sniper rifle would be unmatched at the GÇ£one shot one killGÇ¥ mantra, but sacrifices almost everything else to do so. The extremely low rate of fire means that priority targets are prefered (indeed, users would need to endure slow reloads between shots); the high recoil makes even the models with 2 shots unwieldy; the extreme bullet drop requires significant skill to use on moving targets; finally the mediocre range requires the user to get somewhat close to the target. The upshot is that these rifles can even pose a threat to lightly armoured vehicles.
Caldari/Gallente Railgun GÇô Target softening.- Farthest effective range. - Medium proportional optimal range. - Medium bullet travel time. - Medium drop beyond optimal range. - Damage decreases beyond optimal range, 25% at effective range. - Medium Shield and Armour damage. - Medium recoil. - Medium damage. - Medium rate of fire.
Both the Caldari and Gallente employ Railgun technology with regards to sniper rifles. Both racial variants focus on softening targets but are generally flexible. The Caldari version trades some rate of fire and damage in exchange for range and faster projectiles with less drop; making it more suited to finish off wounded or weak targets. The Gallente version leans the other way: sacrificing range and projectile speed for increased damage and rate of fire with increased drop; for applying initial hits on general infantry, or additional support against hardened targets.
This leaves us with a bunch of sniper rifles of varying calibres for various uses and with different types of tactics incentivised. This also prompts a change to sniper rifle stats, as right now snipers are constantly in their optimal range.
Thoughts? Are these acceptable compromises? Would it reduce the amount of sniper spam? |
Daesi
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.01.30 16:30:00 -
[183] - Quote
Sniping is not as easy as it should be. You have to be on the exact pixel the character is or you miss. The damage is laughable. Lots of times when I hit some one they just move back let their shields regen then go back to what they were doing. Even crouched the controls are horrible. I turned the x and y and dead zone as low as the go and barely press on direction and i jumps over way too fast. I love to snipe in games like this it takes more talent then the pray and spray is see soo many doing. How is infantry any fun just run around and spray bullet you will get plenty of kills. I don't even really have to aim most of the time just point and spray and woot +50 kill. |
Garrett Starfall
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.01.30 16:44:00 -
[184] - Quote
I was a good sniper on the battlefield games. I was a crackshot and sometimes followed the rule of moving when discovered (unless I was just being lazy or found an awesome patch of ground which was nearly always ), but I find the sniping on this game aweful to be honest. I started as a sniper but now I want to be a heavy with a M-gun so i've started saving those oh-so-hard-to-gather sp points. |
Garrett Starfall
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.01.30 16:47:00 -
[185] - Quote
J-Lewis wrote:Sniper has always been a support role; you either eliminate a single hard threat to your team (usually enemy support), soften targets to reduce friendly casualties, or harass them into hard cover. The various races should prefer one or another of these based on their philosophy. For example: AmarrScrambler GÇô Harassment: - Shortest effective range. - Highest proportional optimal range. - Fastest bullet travel time. - No drop. - Shots lose damage beyond optimal range and dissipate entirely at effective range. - Excellent Shield damage, medium Armour damage. - Lowest recoil. - Lowest damage. - Fastest rate of fire. An Amarrian scrambler sniper rifle would fit very well when it comes to harassing enemies into cover. A combination of extreme projectile speed, low recoil, and the ability to put many shots down range in short time - despite low damage and reach - would enable the user to fill much the same role as the Laser Rifle at sniper ranges but without the same level of sustained fire or crowd control. MinmatarArtillery GÇô Anti Materiel: - Medium effective range. - Shortest proportional optimal range. - Slowest bullet travel time. - Extreme drop beyond optimal range, bullet falls straight down at effective range. - Damage does not decrease at any range. - Excellent Armour damage, medium Shield damage. - Highest recoil. - Highest damage. - Lowest rate of fire. A Minmatar artillery sniper rifle would be unmatched at the GÇ£one shot one killGÇ¥ mantra, but sacrifices almost everything else to do so. The extremely low rate of fire means that priority targets are prefered (indeed, users would need to endure slow reloads between shots); the high recoil makes even the models with 2 shots unwieldy; the extreme bullet drop requires significant skill to use on moving targets; finally the mediocre range requires the user to get somewhat close to the target. The upshot is that these rifles can even pose a threat to lightly armoured vehicles. Caldari/GallenteRailgun GÇô Target softening.- Farthest effective range. - Medium proportional optimal range. - Medium bullet travel time. - Medium drop beyond optimal range. - Damage decreases beyond optimal range, 25% at effective range. - Medium Shield and Armour damage. - Medium recoil. - Medium damage. - Medium rate of fire. Both the Caldari and Gallente employ Railgun technology with regards to sniper rifles. Both racial variants focus on softening targets but are generally flexible. The Caldari version trades some rate of fire and damage in exchange for range and faster projectiles with less drop; making it more suited to finish off wounded or weak targets. The Gallente version leans the other way: sacrificing range and projectile speed for increased damage and rate of fire with increased drop; for applying initial hits on general infantry, or additional support against hardened targets.
This leaves us with a bunch of sniper rifles of varying calibres for various uses and with different types of tactics incentivised. This also prompts a change to sniper rifle stats, as right now snipers are constantly in their optimal range. Thoughts? Are these acceptable compromises? Would it reduce the amount of sniper spam?
Saito in Ghost in the Shell has sniper rifles that can kill the operator of a tank! Imagine that...
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Thranx1231
CowTek
90
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Posted - 2013.01.30 16:51:00 -
[186] - Quote
Daesi wrote:Sniping is not as easy as it should be. You have to be on the exact pixel the character is or you miss. The damage is laughable. Lots of times when I hit some one they just move back let their shields regen then go back to what they were doing. Even crouched the controls are horrible. --snip AR rambling-- Then you really won't like my two major Fits. They both have Armor Regen modules. Not only do Snipers try to take out my Heavy all the time, I normally recover completely before stepping back out into the action.
Which is exactly what they needed me to do. Step out of the action for awhile. And if you are actually working with a squad, highly unlikely considering your level of entitlement, the target is very susceptible to any hit at all. I get more +25 Kill Assists than kills all the time when sniping.
Your QQ is very cute, BTW. You are the only person in this entire 8 page thread that thinks that the Sniper Rifle is too week and too difficult to use. You are such a New Berry.
You also don't seem to understand the scope is stable is when crouched. It even tells you that when you equip the rifle, did you miss that?
The AR is the standard answer to any situation. Some prefer to aim and some hip shoot. If you spray and pray then you are less accurate, use more ammo and are not very good. Cool, if that is what gets you to calm down after not being good enough as a DUST Sniper. |
Daesi
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.01.30 17:04:00 -
[187] - Quote
I do crouch but the controls are too sensitive and jumpy to dial in on a character. If they made the scope move at 1/4th or even slower when zoomed in that would be amazing. That and hitting a moving target on the exact spot they seem to want is ridiculous. If they opened up the target area just a bit more it would be much more fun to snipe. Just would be nice if a person shot with a snipe rifle would actually die instead of having to get 2 lucky shots on them. Specially if you get a head shot. I can get a decent score normally playing sniper would just be more fun if we did better damage and had a better chance to hit. The close range weapons do not seem to have to be nearly as accurate as the sniper rifle. |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.01.30 17:15:00 -
[188] - Quote
Are you sweeping the reticle over the target like you should? |
Daesi
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.01.30 17:17:00 -
[189] - Quote
yeah i will be off to say the left like 2 pixels then i just barely try to move left 2 it jumps like 10. then i try to swing back over the other way and it jumps again. |
Martin0 Brancaleone
Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS.
191
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Posted - 2013.01.30 18:03:00 -
[190] - Quote
Just cut in half the earnigs (both SP and isk) of the losing team. You want to stay safe sniping in the redline without helping your team? You lose and get nothing. |
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Mode Torsen
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
11
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Posted - 2013.01.30 18:46:00 -
[191] - Quote
A sniper is by definition difficult to reach, and difficult to counter.
The previous suggestions (flanking, HAV, DS, counter Sniper) are exactly how we remove enemy snipers in real life. I'm sure we would love to remove/nerf sniping in real life, but since that's not an option, we kill them using other more reasonable tactics.
Also I believe over half the other team in the current actual wars are snipers... nerfs would make cleaning out Afghanistan so much easier.
I would like to see some bullet drop though. That's just fun
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Alistair McFlair
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3
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Posted - 2013.01.30 21:01:00 -
[192] - Quote
You guys revived a threat, that hadnt been dealt with for 3 months(november). I take in 3-4 months time, you wont whine about snipers, because you all got better gear and know how to count them.
When all comes to all, half of you are annoyed, that you are getting shot by snipers behind the redline, in a skirmish match, after your team has all the objectives and are winning, but which isnt enough for you, you have to go camp the MCC area.
I'm not saying, I dont think its common logic to move on and prevent the enemy team from reaching the objectives, but I sure as hell dont whine about snipers needing a nerf, when I get shot by a sniper, while im "camping" the redline |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 21:08:00 -
[193] - Quote
Mode Torsen wrote:A sniper is by definition difficult to reach, and difficult to counter. The previous suggestions (flanking, HAV, DS, counter Sniper) are exactly how we remove enemy snipers in real life. I'm sure we would love to remove/nerf sniping in real life, but since that's not an option, we kill them using other more reasonable tactics. Also I believe over half the other team in the current actual wars are snipers... nerfs would make cleaning out Afghanistan so much easier. I would like to see some bullet drop though. That's just fun
The thing is in real life, they already have a nerf: having to account for physics. Bullet drop, bullet travel time, etc. I'd be fine with snipers if they didn't have to just line up a dot and fire, so I'll agree with your bullet drop point, but at the moment I feel like sniping is skill-less. |
Cipher 9
Cipher Directive
0
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Posted - 2013.01.30 21:12:00 -
[194] - Quote
I've had battles that end with 20/0 and others end horribly, usually the result of a smart team... and a tank... I will admit as a sniper myself, that some things should be adjusted (can snipe from accross the map when the reticle isn't even red, glitching up mountains for a super unfair vantage point) but I'm thinking all this waaa waaa about snipers being unfair is a little unfounded. The game is still being adjusted. How about getting hit with 3 rounds from an assault rifle and dying? Because that happens in a scout suit and from really far away.. (No shield hardeners). Here's a good anti-sniper tactic, keep moving and assume you are in someones sights at all time. FPS 101. Someone else said it best, that even though there are a lot of snipers out there, most will move on to other classes. Its not for everyone, but smart ones can be deadly. I look forward to putting a round through you soon. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 23:46:00 -
[195] - Quote
Mode Torsen wrote:A sniper is by definition difficult to reach, and difficult to counter.
This isn't real life, it's a game. One which is not meant to simulate real life. So no, by definition they aren't anything. They're whatever they need to be in order to make them a fun and worthwhile addition to the game.
Daesi wrote:Sniping is not as easy as it should be. You have to be on the exact pixel the character is or you miss. The damage is laughable. Lots of times when I hit some one they just move back let their shields regen then go back to what they were doing. Even crouched the controls are horrible. I turned the x and y and dead zone as low as the go and barely press on direction and i jumps over way too fast. I love to snipe in games like this it takes more talent then the pray and spray is see soo many doing. How is infantry any fun just run around and spray bullet you will get plenty of kills. I don't even really have to aim most of the time just point and spray and woot +50 kill.
It would be literally impossible to make sniping any easier. The only thing they could do is make it be an automatic one-hit-kill on anyone. Currently it's a two-hit-kill on everyone except heavies. Aiming is as easy as they can possibly make it. No bullet drop, no bullet travel time, no scope sway. If you find sniping difficult, I can only assume you're new to FPS games, because it's the easiest example of sniping I've ever seen.
Saigo Mora wrote:One thing that could be done is to give snipers the highest scan profiles instead of the lowest.
Signature profile is relative to your suit. There is no particular suit that is "the sniper suit", but certainly the scout suit is the worst for the stationary sniper. In any case, knowing where a sniper is doesn't really make such a big difference. The issue has never been that counter-sniping is difficult or isn't effective.
Alistair McFlair wrote:You guys revived a threat, that hadnt been dealt with for 3 months(november). I take in 3-4 months time, you wont whine about snipers, because you all got better gear and know how to count them.
When all comes to all, half of you are annoyed, that you are getting shot by snipers behind the redline, in a skirmish match, after your team has all the objectives and are winning, but which isnt enough for you, you have to go camp the MCC area.
I'm not saying, I dont think its common logic to move on and prevent the enemy team from reaching the objectives, but I sure as hell dont whine about snipers needing a nerf, when I get shot by a sniper, while im "camping" the redline
I have been making threads, as a sniper, advocating the nerfing of sniping since this summer. Sniping has not changed enough for me to stop bringing up the issue. Worthless commentary about learning how to counter snipers is of no value. Maybe if you would stop pretending like you're some kind of FPS guru and actually read what is being written, you'd realize you don't have any idea what you're talking about. |
Mars El'Theran
Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness
52
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Posted - 2013.01.31 01:47:00 -
[196] - Quote
People often snip because they are dying lots as far as I can tell. When you've got a field overrun with enemies that just one-two shot everyone with Burst ARs or HMGs or whatnot, there isn't much option but to take to the high-ground unless you like dying.
This is even more so desirable because you often find when you do, that the reason your battlefield is so overrun is possibly because you've got half your team sniping, and from places where they can't hit anything. Even the, you die lots if you're unlucky, and the spawn points are usually being camped anyway, so you die when you spawn.
It's basically a way to wait out the failscade and try not to lose too much KDR while getting the points and ISK for the match, and maybe a few kills to balance out your insane losses. It's possible the snipers you find when you decide to do the same are the reason for the losses and state of the battle.
You can't win a Skirmish this way; it is almost certainly a guaranteed loss. You can't really Ambush this way either, because of random spawn points and the limitation of map size and terrain. Most often, this is not in a Snipers favor, and there is rarely a Supply Depot to call in a dropship so you can find somewhere all but invulnerable to shoot from.
i.e: Too many Snipers means you lose. The best team is either balanced, or full on Heavies and some Assaults ime. These own every time. I'm almost never on the winning side in those matches, and often they end up just being Spawn-and-Die matches unfortunately.
*The post time requirement is awful. I'm certain I've had a few that timed out in 30 seconds and I had to copy-paste and repost. I'm sure of at least one today. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 02:29:00 -
[197] - Quote
XXfootnoteXX wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Icy Tiger wrote:32 Players - 17 Snipers. Counted. It's not even fun anymore. And don't tell me it takes skill, I've gone 12-0 with a militia sniper rifle, all you do is crouch, wait for dot to run red and fire. It's not even kitten funny anymore. CCP Wolfman is redoing sniper rifles to have projectile travel time and bullet drop. Snipers will have to compensate for that and lead their targets to get kills. Its being worked on. How big of a drop are we talking? Sniper Rifles are basically rail guns so I don't imagine they have travel time and drop. That being said I don't mind them making snipers more skill (personal skill) intensive.
It may not make too much sense but hey, Forges and Railguns also have a travel delay, so making all of them have a delay would make sense... I guess...
If your not gonna make sense, then make nonsense consistently! |
Tregar Kerrigan
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
36
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Posted - 2013.01.31 03:00:00 -
[198] - Quote
The only time I have played sniper effectively as part of a team was using fire and move tactics to hold down another sniper and a laser rifle assault who were raining death from above. Managed to suppress them without giving away my position, and we then took the 3 points within 2 or so minutes. So snipers are not always useless, and can in fact make a big difference, but only a few per team, doing their job, rather than redlining. |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 09:06:00 -
[199] - Quote
A round from the sniper rifle we currently have should take 0.2 seconds to travel 500m. That's fast, but definitely not instant. Drop should be affected by the gravity of the environment (there is a stat for it in EVE on every planet). |
JohnDS Wolf
Exit Wound Heavy Industries
10
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 11:55:00 -
[200] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Mode Torsen wrote:A sniper is by definition difficult to reach, and difficult to counter. This isn't real life, it's a game. One which is not meant to simulate real life. So no, by definition they aren't anything. They're whatever they need to be in order to make them a fun and worthwhile addition to the game.
if a game F's up on simple conceps and physic, i think it's fair to call FOUL. specaly when a game is trying to be a futuristic millitary FPS.
if you want a game or (more exatly) FPS to not to simulate real life in some form, Play something else. like Unreal tournament or Quake or Mario or Sonic.
And before you reply with "it's just an **** ing game." again, you realy need to ask your self "why should i care if they want something fixed". |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2013.01.31 12:54:00 -
[201] - Quote
Daesi wrote:I do crouch but the controls are too sensitive and jumpy to dial in on a character. If they made the scope move at 1/4th or even slower when zoomed in that would be amazing. That and hitting a moving target on the exact spot they seem to want is ridiculous. If they opened up the target area just a bit more it would be much more fun to snipe. Just would be nice if a person shot with a snipe rifle would actually die instead of having to get 2 lucky shots on them. Specially if you get a head shot. I can get a decent score normally playing sniper would just be more fun if we did better damage and had a better chance to hit. The close range weapons do not seem to have to be nearly as accurate as the sniper rifle.
Daesi wrote:yeah i will be off to say the left like 2 pixels then i just barely try to move left 2 it jumps like 10. then i try to swing back over the other way and it jumps again. This sounds like the "deadzone" issue.
Check the controller settings. Specifically, the PSMove controller page.
Turn both "deadzone" settings to 0. It should help a lot with that. If you've already done this, it's still deadzone problems, but it's the fact that the devs still haven't addressed the fact that the deadzone is way too large even when turned right down. |
Round3y3
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2013.01.31 18:54:00 -
[202] - Quote
Threads like this should just be deleted on sight. They exist in every fps forum. Infinite complaining is this topic. |
YourDeadAgain76
Red Star.
133
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 19:38:00 -
[203] - Quote
Icy Tiger wrote:32 Players - 17 Snipers. Counted. It's not even fun anymore. And don't tell me it takes skill, I've gone 12-0 with a militia sniper rifle, all you do is crouch, wait for dot to run red and fire. It's not even kitten funny anymore. ) +1 this has been posted forever way to many snipers. there should be no militia sniper (or atleast not worth using) to make people spec into it. Or just remover the sniper.
Mind u, Ive never sniped and hate the idea or someone padding thier KDR sitting on the redline while us grunts on the ground are actually doing something.. (there are good ones to that give info and cover the team.) So thats why it sould be speced into not given to all the NOOBS.
Way to many snipers and there will only be way more to come. Sorry Archon ur one of the good ones. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
690
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 19:50:00 -
[204] - Quote
YourDeadAgain76 wrote:Sorry Archon ur one of the good ones.
You are wrong. I am a non-factor .
PS: I dont red line snipe either. I am smack in the middle of the battle
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Ace D Wolfgang
Doomheim
0
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Posted - 2013.02.01 01:50:00 -
[205] - Quote
+1 to the drop mechanic and the people who are suggesting no tracer. Seriously, there is already a tracer on it, just faint and looks like smoke, don't need to make any more like a glow stick shot you.
I for one do not snipe, I tried to snipe a couple of times, but no avail, I can honestly say it's not for me. I do however support them, because some snipers I have ran into were good ones, who were smack dead in battle, and knew what they were doing.
and YES there are counters, it's not like they are invincible. they don't need to be nerfed at all. I can kill a sniper easily, granted yeah, they are annoying when you are walking and you just get shot out of the blue. But hey, that means they are doing what snipers commonly do, BEING HIDDEN from your view, so you can't complain for being what they do, elusive.
They are unbalanced in some cases, but they do not need to be nerfed really, just put the drop mechanic, atmospheric countermeasure, and the indicator of how many of that class is in the match. not relieving damage, (it takes three shots to kill me in my dropsuit, lowering damage, it's more like a FAL in Call Of Duty), we don't need that) definitely no tracer idea, there is already a smoke trail that you can see if you pay attention. and the one shot skill, I'm sure if your shot in the head by a RAIL GUN, that's automatic death.
There are already counters, plenty of counters to a sniper. One is an HAV. I'm sure a tank can kill them, really easily. Dropships also kill them, and I even know some people who fit lasers on their LAV's for the soul purpose to kill snipers or shoot from a distance for support. Or use a Forge gun and blow them to sod. like i said, they are not invincible, a little annoying, but nothing to major in my opinion.
and a half-competent player should know the basic procedure and take cover and not stand still. It takes 2 or 3 shots to kill you, so I'm sure the first shot should tell you "Hey, your being sniped, run in zig zags or find a wall." or even do what so many suggested, counter snipe, or FIND HIM. if he is red line sniping, easy picking right? if he is not, then still look for him, or at least don't be in the open as much. there are already ways to counteract snipers easily, no need for a nerf bat just because a sniper is doing what he/she is supposed to do, or because you die a lot. I die from snipers a lot, granted I killed a lot to. It presents a challenge in this game.
plus It's team based, use your team to find him if you can. Your suppose to work with a team as a cohesive unit, not run solo, then yeah, your head is going to go right off.
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