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Could we get a shield logi?

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The dark cloud Negative-Feedback. 4147	Posted - 2015.03.18 14:11:00 - [1] - Quote Would be nice if we could get a shield recharger tool and a logi that matches that. Maybe change the Caldari Logi bonus from nanohives to something like this: -Caldari Logistic +10% additional range for shield recharger tools and +5% shield regen rate per lvl Shield recharger tool lineup with name, dropsuit shield regen, vehicle shield regen and range (in that order): STD: -Shield recharger tool/ 20HP/50HP/ 10m -Flux shield recharger tool/ same stats as the basic but 15m range ADV: -CLT-2 shield recharger tool/30HP/75HP/15m -CLT-5 axis shield recharger tool/ 22.5HP/100HP/15m -CLT-8 Triage shield recharger tool/ 37.5HP/60HP/15m PRO: -Kaalikiota shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/15m -Ishukone Flux shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/22.5m -Wyrkomi Triage shield recharger tool/44HP/75HP/15.m -Focussed shield recharger tool/62.5HP/ 110HP/7.5m The base regen stats are low cause when pointed at a dropsuit it stacks with their native shield regen. Cause neither do i or the competetive community see a point in having a bonus to nanohives cause we can carry 6 of those allready at ADV lvl. It would make the suit aswell more popular cause if we are honest here all the other logis have something to keep you going while the caldari only has ammo, which every 1 can now carry tons of it to begin with. They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4175	Posted - 2015.03.18 14:43:00 - [2] - Quote It would be OP. Imagine a cal sent, with 80 or even more shield recharge and no delays. Pimp my Barge
The dark cloud Negative-Feedback. 4147	Posted - 2015.03.18 15:07:00 - [3] - Quote shaman oga wrote: It would be OP. Imagine a cal sent, with 80 or even more shield recharge and no delays. Yeah but the cal sentinel has much less HP cause you need at least 2 energizers to achieve that. A amarr sentinel has 1344HP on armor and with the help of a minlogi with a lai dai flux reptool a armor regen rate of 87,5HP. The cal sentinel with a setup that you posted would have 707HP and a total shield regen of max 123HP/s. So the calsentinel has 48% less main tank HP but 40% better regen. I think thats a fair tradeoff. They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
Elpedo Hughes Intara Direct Action Caldari State 11	Posted - 2015.03.18 18:27:00 - [4] - Quote If this becomes true NAMELESS would be UNSTOPABLE!
Elpedo Hughes Intara Direct Action Caldari State 11	Posted - 2015.03.18 18:29:00 - [5] - Quote Seriously though I don't support it as a armour and shield tanked player with 2 logis with 1 shield and 1 armour rep tool would be OP (hence my NAMELESS post) I would mind a shield booster like on tanks though.
Finn Colman Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 154	Posted - 2015.03.18 23:50:00 - [6] - Quote Rattati has mentioned the need for some sort of shield support equipment, and the intention to work on it. Jack-of-most-trades, master of one.
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 415	Posted - 2015.03.18 23:54:00 - [7] - Quote Will never happen, no shield buffs allowed, only nerfs. If you ask for an increase to armor reps you are garanteed to see them next patch.
The dark cloud Negative-Feedback. 4154	Posted - 2015.03.19 07:49:00 - [8] - Quote Elpedo Hughes wrote: Seriously though I don't support it as a armour and shield tanked player with 2 logis with 1 shield and 1 armour rep tool would be OP (hence my NAMELESS post) I would mind a shield booster like on tanks though. Ya know that the basic shield regen on armor suits are extremely bad? It would still make more sense to stick a 2nd reptool on him so his uber buffed armor tank regens quicker. They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7661	Posted - 2015.03.19 07:54:00 - [9] - Quote shaman oga wrote: It would be OP. Imagine a cal sent, with 80 or even more shield recharge and no delays. There isn't a single anti shield weapon that cannot casually annihilate this advantage even with the laser and plasma resists. And quite bluntly a shield transporter that simply jumpstarts the regen and adds 15-25 shield regen per second would be on par with the 125 HP/sec core armor repairer used by logis. It doesn't require much to matter, but it needs to matter. AV
The dark cloud Negative-Feedback. 4154	Posted - 2015.03.19 08:23:00 - [10] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: shaman oga wrote: It would be OP. Imagine a cal sent, with 80 or even more shield recharge and no delays. There isn't a single anti shield weapon that cannot casually annihilate this advantage even with the laser and plasma resists. And quite bluntly a shield transporter that simply jumpstarts the regen and adds 15-25 shield regen per second would be on par with the 125 HP/sec core armor repairer used by logis. It doesn't require much to matter, but it needs to matter. The thing is lasers and blaster weapons rip trough shields like nothing and if you are not armor tanked its basically game over. On medium-long range you should have the option to get supported by a logi. And i certainly have seen enough armor tanked suits with rail rifles and scramblers who are getting repped by logis. Then there is the case of flux nades which wipes all of your shields when beeing hit and thats even the case when it was a militia. Then we have the trench war ambush meta where 2 sides collide with each other but nobody moves. Armor tanked suits have the advantage cause they generate more WP and in the end just can OB the enemys to win the match. Another thing is why beeing upset about high regen on shield suits? you have to sacrifice HP to have that kind of regen but the fact that passive armor reps+armor repair tools stack aswell is beeing ignored. In fact lets see how much armor rep a amarr sentinel can get: AK.0 sentinel with 4 passive reppers: 39 HP/s and has 750HP armor with lvl5 skills Minmatarr logistic with a lai dai flux repair tool: 87,5 HP/s both combined: 126HP/s So tell me now again why a shield recharger tool would be OP? The amarr sentinel has more armor HP without any plates then a cal. sentinel has shields with 2 extenders and 2 energizers. The truth is the amarr sentinel would beat the regen rate of the cal. sentinel by 1HP/s. Point is invalid for those fearing of "++ber repping heavys" cause that one certainly is allready here. They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"

Georgia Xavier Y.A.M.A.H 97	Posted - 2015.03.19 14:07:00 - [11] - Quote This would need to be implemented IF a heavy laser weapon comes out. Highly unlikely but one can hope How many amarr does it take to change a light bulb? none. The minmatar do it for them
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7668	Posted - 2015.03.19 14:17:00 - [12] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: shaman oga wrote: It would be OP. Imagine a cal sent, with 80 or even more shield recharge and no delays. There isn't a single anti shield weapon that cannot casually annihilate this advantage even with the laser and plasma resists. And quite bluntly a shield transporter that simply jumpstarts the regen and adds 15-25 shield regen per second would be on par with the 125 HP/sec core armor repairer used by logis. It doesn't require much to matter, but it needs to matter. The thing is lasers and blaster weapons rip trough shields like nothing and if you are not armor tanked its basically game over. On medium-long range you should have the option to get supported by a logi. And i certainly have seen enough armor tanked suits with rail rifles and scramblers who are getting repped by logis. Then there is the case of flux nades which wipes all of your shields when beeing hit and thats even the case when it was a militia. Then we have the trench war ambush meta where 2 sides collide with each other but nobody moves. Armor tanked suits have the advantage cause they generate more WP and in the end just can OB the enemys to win the match. Another thing is why beeing upset about high regen on shield suits? you have to sacrifice HP to have that kind of regen but the fact that passive armor reps+armor repair tools stack aswell is beeing ignored. In fact lets see how much armor rep a amarr sentinel can get: AK.0 sentinel with 4 passive reppers: 39 HP/s and has 750HP armor with lvl5 skills Minmatarr logistic with a lai dai flux repair tool: 87,5 HP/s both combined: 126HP/s So tell me now again why a shield recharger tool would be OP? The amarr sentinel has more armor HP without any plates then a cal. sentinel has shields with 2 extenders and 2 energizers. The truth is the amarr sentinel would beat the regen rate of the cal. sentinel by 1HP/s. Point is invalid for those fearing of "++ber repping heavys" cause that one certainly is allready here. This post, while a bit frenetic, accurately lays out the correct argument. He fails to mention that a 4-rep amsent actually recovers closer to 164 HP/sec with a core rep tool. Realistically in most situations, dual plate and two reps are the better fit, so only 146/second versus the calsent's "overpowering" 80 HP/Sec. Did I mention that in order to get 80/sec you sacrifice 12% of your shield HP off the top? Stacking penalties don't apply to module penalties so two energizers (6% each) shave off slightly more than a tenth of your HP. So... how is this idea OP? Please, use math or logic as to why jump starting regen and adding 15-20 HP regen on top would be OP. I'm all ears. And I will be ready to tear your logic to ribbons. AV
The dark cloud Negative-Feedback. 4156	Posted - 2015.03.19 18:42:00 - [13] - Quote The main gripe that people have with this idea is that it would take a armor exclusive feature away from them. Thats the only reason why they are against it. But hey lets keep a heavy with allmost 1400HP armor and stick a reptool on him. Not OP at all while a cal. sentinel has like 40% less shield HP then the amarr has armor. This proposal would make the Cal. logi actually worthwhile using. Cause ya know any random guy with a advanced nanohive could now resupply his whole team. They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 524	Posted - 2015.03.19 19:01:00 - [14] - Quote Elpedo Hughes wrote: Seriously though I don't support it as a armour and shield tanked player with 2 logis with 1 shield and 1 armour rep tool would be OP (hence my NAMELESS post) I would mind a shield booster like on tanks though. Thats a pretty good concern to bring up. Do armor repair tools stack? I forget. I think they do, maybe they shouldnt, for the same reason you bring up.
The dark cloud Negative-Feedback. 4157	Posted - 2015.03.19 19:52:00 - [15] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Elpedo Hughes wrote: Seriously though I don't support it as a armour and shield tanked player with 2 logis with 1 shield and 1 armour rep tool would be OP (hence my NAMELESS post) I would mind a shield booster like on tanks though. Thats a pretty good concern to bring up. Do armor repair tools stack? I forget. I think they do, maybe they shouldnt, for the same reason you bring up. Yes they stack. The more logis are repping you the higher the HP regen is. It would actually a drawback to change out one logi for shield recharge. Cause the base shield regen on armor suits is like 20HP/s and barely goes up with energizers/rechargers. They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
Lahut K'mar Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 52	Posted - 2015.03.20 01:31:00 - [16] - Quote So why not just boost shield regen? Also bear in mind that this OP sentinel is a two man team one of whom is not a super tanked sentinel, but a skinny logi. If a few MD grenades land in the wrong spot, Mister Sentinel isn't going to survive long. Two Caldari sentinels still take up 1/8 of the clones, but have double the firepower, are both equally protected and if one falls the other can still keep fighting. Caldari sentinels are a pain because strike-and-run tactics simply don't work. You need to keep hitting them until they can't get back up and by then you've already got 4 barrels of .22 death aimed at your face. If there must be a shield repairer, I would have it as a pulse-cooldown thing. Also while on the subject, I think a deployable shield generator would be pretty cool. Think a dome forcefield that protects equipment and mercs when no cover is available. 400 or so health, 20hp/s recharge, 20 second depleted recharge delay. Horrifying? That's a strange way to spell "romantic". FIX THE WHEEL, CCP!
Ralden Caster KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 156	Posted - 2015.03.20 02:24:00 - [17] - Quote This shield booster should overheat after boosting for a bit to prevent spam though and allow for a well timed takedown of the sentinel with enough coordination. Pick up a QUAFE weapon today; ITS TIME TO PUMP LIQUID FREEDOM
DJINN Jecture MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH 284	Posted - 2015.03.20 06:47:00 - [18] - Quote This would be OP, for instance your team is that fricken good that they take no armor damage, so you switch to your shield rep tool from your armor rep tool, then drop them some Gauged hives to supplement their bullets. Unstoppable force! *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*
DJINN Jecture MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH 284	Posted - 2015.03.20 06:50:00 - [19] - Quote Lahut K'mar wrote: Also while on the subject, I think a deployable shield generator would be pretty cool. Think a dome forcefield that protects equipment and mercs when no cover is available. 400 or so health, 20hp/s recharge, 20 second depleted recharge delay. This has been discussed as "in the works" (like the cloak was for over 2 years) by CCP with a SOONtm attached. *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7678	Posted - 2015.03.20 07:42:00 - [20] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: This would be OP, for instance your team is that fricken good that they take no armor damage, so you switch to your shield rep tool from your armor rep tool, then drop them some Gauged hives to supplement their bullets. Unstoppable force! Really? Present your evidence. AV

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7678	Posted - 2015.03.20 07:43:00 - [21] - Quote Ralden Caster wrote: This shield booster should overheat after boosting for a bit to prevent spam though and allow for a well timed takedown of the sentinel with enough coordination. Only if the remote armor rep overheats too. AV
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 752	Posted - 2015.03.20 07:52:00 - [22] - Quote shaman oga wrote: It would be OP. Imagine a cal sent, with 80 or even more shield recharge and no delays. Isn't that was the Armor heavies have right now? Or any armor based suit? I mean -- core is what -- 120 a sec no delays? Seems to me any concept of shield rep tool being OP would apply equally to the armor rep tool. Hence either rep tools are OP or neither are OP. It is ridiculous to say one is OP but somehow magically the other is not. (and that is not even arguing the lower ehp of shields....) DJINN Jecture wrote: This would be OP, for instance your team is that fricken good that they take no armor damage, so you switch to your shield rep tool from your armor rep tool, then drop them some Gauged hives to supplement their bullets. Unstoppable force! Same for this. Isn't that what armor based heavy/logi combos do now? Seriously, you guys arguing against shield/armor support parity are trying to divide by zero. Imp Smash fails to understand how people miss simple rationale like this. Explodes into a wormhole.
The dark cloud Negative-Feedback. 4169	Posted - 2015.03.20 09:12:00 - [23] - Quote People say its OP but fail to back up that claim while we allready have very similar mechanics for armor suits. They are just trying to defend their armor exclusive crutch and WP farm tool. And what about it of the shield sentinel doesnt take armor damage? Its its main tank after all and he would actually be easier to kill then a fully plated amarr sentinel that has a minlogi sitting behind him. Ya know why? Cause shields can never get over 1000HP shields. Its just impossible. They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7678	Posted - 2015.03.20 09:51:00 - [24] - Quote Because equality of armor AND shields is somehow considered a nerf rather than parity. There is nothing unbalanced about a shield repair tool. Especially when armor rep tools are so damn powerful. And the core 120 or 125/sec combined with the minlogi rep bonus is... not insanely potent? How the everliving fck is having a shield rep tool somehow OP in the face of THAT?? AV
The dark cloud Negative-Feedback. 4169	Posted - 2015.03.20 10:26:00 - [25] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Because equality of armor AND shields is somehow considered a nerf rather than parity. There is nothing unbalanced about a shield repair tool. Especially when armor rep tools are so damn powerful. And the core 120 or 125/sec combined with the minlogi rep bonus is... not insanely potent? How the everliving fck is having a shield rep tool somehow OP in the face of THAT?? Because shields could become competetive like armor and people dont like to have a new meta thats why. They are affraid that the easy kills they can get from shield suits could vanish. Though the whole game concept would still be intact: -armor= slow moving, high HP, slow regen and high damage output -shield= fast moving, low HP, high regen and lower damage ouput The game lore would remain intact the only difference is that when you play logi you can actually help a shield dropsuit rather then just watch how he dies. Eve has shield and armor logistic ships so why cant we have aswell both armor and shield logi suits? Another thing is a well specced player with a proto scrambler rifle can deal over 100HP damage vs shields in a single shot. So you need like 7 scrambler rifle shots to get trough a cal. sentinel shields. Show me a anti armor weapon which can do the same thing to a fully plated amarr sentinel. And no the sniper rifle does not count. They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game RUST415 662	Posted - 2015.03.20 10:52:00 - [26] - Quote I like the idea. How about a shield regen nanohive as well? You could maybe keep the Cal logi bonus to hives but make shield hives the primary method of regening other's shields. This would maintain some distinction between armour and shields.
Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1769	Posted - 2015.03.20 11:11:00 - [27] - Quote I'm not opposed to shield recharger tools, but I think it would be kinda boring if they worked just like armor rep tools for shields. Why not make them a bit different? Instead of giving them a set number of shield hp/s I think it would be interesting if shield tools worked kinda like a combined recharger + regulator. (Just some numbers out of my ass so you get what I'm talking about. Totally not balanced.) PRO Shield Modulator Tool target receives: +65% shield regen -35% shield depleted delay Cal Logi could get a bonus to those tools, e.g. 25% bonus to regen = 81.25%; 50% to delay = 52.5% In that example a Cal Sentinel with 3x extenders + 1x energizer + 1x regulator could have a regen rate of ~95hp/s, with a delay of ~1.16s while still having 830 shields and 100% mobility. The idea behind that is that shield suits couldn't just stack a ton of extenders and run around with a 0s delay shield rep, but instead continue to work like shields usually do. The shield user can make the shield tool more useful by using rechargers/energizers + regulators on his suit, but he has to give up hp for it. Jebus hates scans.GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇ \| GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇREs are fine.
The dark cloud Negative-Feedback. 4170	Posted - 2015.03.20 11:12:00 - [28] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: I like the idea. How about a shield regen nanohive as well? You could maybe keep the Cal logi bonus to hives but make shield hives the primary method of regening other's shields. This would maintain some distinction between armour and shields. Nah we want to get away from the nanohive bonus cause its the least popular and not really usefull since every 1 can allready carry 6 hives on ADV and be capable to resupply their whole team. It is questionaable why a good squad should favour a cal. logi for ammo over a gal. logi with scanners and normal ammo. Scans=kills adv hives= easy resupply and with that the whole purpose of the Cal. logi has become useless. Its not just that but sitting on a armor repping nanohive is campy and because the game is dynamic youll need to move constantly. Be it in ambush moving cause the spawns changed or on skirmish when you captured a objective and want to move onto the next one. Shield recharger/Repair tools are better for dynamic gameplay cause you can move and heal somebody at the same time. Your reptool not vanishing when beeing hit by a locus grenade/flux is aswell a aspect thats against nanohives. They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
The dark cloud Negative-Feedback. 4170	Posted - 2015.03.20 11:20:00 - [29] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: I'm not opposed to shield recharger tools, but I think it would be kinda boring if they worked just like armor rep tools for shields. Why not make them a bit different? Instead of giving them a set number of shield hp/s I think it would be interesting if shield tools worked kinda like a combined recharger + regulator. (Just some numbers out of my ass so you get what I'm talking about. Totally not balanced.) PRO Shield Modulator Tool target receives: +65% shield regen -35% shield depleted delay Cal Logi could get a bonus to those tools, e.g. 25% bonus to regen = 81.25%; 50% to delay = 52.5% In that example a Cal Sentinel with 3x extenders + 1x energizer + 1x regulator could have a regen rate of ~95hp/s, with a delay of ~1.16s while still having 830 shields and 100% mobility. The idea behind that is that shield suits couldn't just stack a ton of extenders and run around with a 0s delay shield rep, but instead continue to work like shields usually do. The shield user can make the shield tool more useful by using rechargers/energizers + regulators on his suit, but he has to give up hp for it. It would require new coding and maybe a clientside update. While my idea allready exists in the game files, just remember back when the Logi LAV's had infantry support modules. They just need to flip the bonus from the reptool and maybe make the beam blue instead of yellow. Another issue with your idea is that the logi would get no triage WP cause he actually doesnt generate HP for the game mechanic to work. A logis main WP generation comes from the logistic work he does and if that doesnt work out nobody wants to use it. This is the main reason why for example minlogis are so much liked simply cause of the reptool beeing aible to generate tons of WP. While with the nanohive bonus you only get 10 WP for resupplying ammo. Basically its like this: -no WP reward= no incentive to spec into it. They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1771	Posted - 2015.03.20 12:09:00 - [30] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: It would require new coding and maybe a clientside update. While my idea allready exists in the game files, just remember back when the Logi LAV's had infantry support modules. They just need to flip the bonus from the reptool and maybe make the beam blue instead of yellow. I don't think coding and clientside updates are that big of an issue. We have had clientside updates recently, we had new stuff which had to be coded first, Rattati talked about adding a new gamemode in the next clientside update, and even something something AI drones on training maps. The dark cloud wrote: Another issue with your idea is that the logi would get no triage WP cause he actually doesnt generate HP for the game mechanic to work. A logis main WP generation comes from the logistic work he does and if that doesnt work out nobody wants to use it. This is the main reason why for example minlogis are so much liked simply cause of the reptool beeing aible to generate tons of WP. While with the nanohive bonus you only get 10 WP for resupplying ammo. Basically its like this: -no WP reward= no incentive to spec into it. It's true but also kinda sad and stupid. The goal should be to be useful to the team and help win matches by doing logi stuff, not just generate WPs for OBs. It's the same reason why it seems few people use scanners in pubmatches even though they are probably the most useful equipment for supporting your team in fights. (Also, I honestly think that the triage WP generation needs to get toned down a bit. Just my 0.02 ISK.) Generating WPs with the kind of shield tool I proposed also is an issue that can be solved by coding. Just make it so you get triage points for each shield regen pulse done on the suit you are repping and we are good to go when it comes to generating WPs. Sure, it might take a bit longer to make this kind of tool and there are issues to solve, but I'm willing to wait if at the end we get something that is new instead of a reskinned reptool for shields. Otherwise we might as well just make new reptool variants that regen shields instead of armor, or even reptools variants that regen shields AND repair armor (at a reduced rate of course). Less exciting but it'll do, I guess. Jebus hates scans.GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇ \| GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇREs are fine.

The dark cloud Negative-Feedback. 4172	Posted - 2015.03.20 14:01:00 - [31] - Quote Ofcourse the Gal. logi is one of the best logi due to its bonus. Thats why it has its existance reason for good squads/PC teams. Every 1 loves to have a scanner on your site and hate it when the enemy has them. Minmatarr is usefull to keep your team alive and amarr has fast reinforcment spawns with his uplinks. Caldari is just lolwrothy compared to the other 3 races cause it doesnt has a usefull/competetive role to fill. No decent FC would ever put a caldari logi on their team if he has the choice to pick the other 3 races. Well there is a new added role to it which overlaps with the amarr logi and that is to put drop uplinks on buildings/rooftops cause hes the only logi with 5 highslots and capable to jump with the help of 5 myo's to spots that nobody else can reach (except for dropships). That doesnt make use of the nanohive bonus and the insane 5 myo's is probs beeing nerfed so that you can only fit 3 of them at a time or some other kind of nerf. Im looking at the logi future and not some niche role which is probs not even intended. Dont get me wrong the jump height with 3 is allright but 5 is a bit insane. They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 201	Posted - 2015.03.20 19:25:00 - [32] - Quote Don't make it the same tool!! I'm not a logi, but i do have proto tools... I've thought about it honestly... And why not separate the tools. We get an armor rep tool basically adds rep tank to a bricked suit. So how about the opposite for shields? An example would be a proto shield tool adds 50% sHP, 15% reduction to recharge delays. Then mix up them tools... A focused one adds small sHP but basically removes recharge delay? I say this because the tool gets at the weakness of the HP pool. aHP: high HP, low HP recovery. Tool increases recovery. sHP: low HP, high HP recovery, recover delays. Tool increases HP and/or reduction to delay. How's that? Entering the void and becoming wind. Message for 1v1 air to air
The dark cloud Negative-Feedback. 4173	Posted - 2015.03.20 20:51:00 - [33] - Quote Thats problematic cause dropsuit shields act the same way like vehicles. Once you have some kind of forced regen it kickstarts the natural regen aswell. Prime example are shield boosters cause once the boosted amount gets added to your shields it aswells forces the vehicle to start regen aswell. They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
The dark cloud Negative-Feedback. 4185	Posted - 2015.03.24 11:11:00 - [34] - Quote hippity hoppity bumpy di bump. I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
Carder Host Rautaleijona 0	Posted - 2015.03.24 11:31:00 - [35] - Quote imagine a stacked gal sentinel with one cal logi repping his shields and a min logi on the armor. unstoppable much? cry more, i love this song
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 219	Posted - 2015.03.24 11:39:00 - [36] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Thats problematic cause dropsuit shields act the same way like vehicles. Once you have some kind of forced regen it kickstarts the natural regen aswell. Prime example are shield boosters cause once the boosted amount gets added to your shields it aswells forces the vehicle to start regen aswell. Then how is the shield tool supposed to work then. If it's a recharging tool it simply shield boosts constantly. That's why extends (or simply hardening for simplicity) is the way for a shield tool. It's also the opposite of armor tools, which supports sHP's weakness of lower HP/recharge delay. Entering the void and becoming wind. Message for 1v1 air to air
DJINN Jecture MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH 297	Posted - 2015.03.24 12:48:00 - [37] - Quote If this shield rep tool comes into being it needs to have no overheat. That is unless of course you think I should be able to use one rep tool in each hand. *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*
DJINN Jecture MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH 297	Posted - 2015.03.24 12:53:00 - [38] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Don't make it the same tool!! I'm not a logi, but i do have proto tools... I've thought about it honestly... And why not separate the tools. No. It allows use without needing to skill and allows us to just go along with it rather than changing whatever we were working on like say an HMG or Grenades to get going and just do what people want the logis to be doing. *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*
DJINN Jecture MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH 297	Posted - 2015.03.24 12:57:00 - [39] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: The dark cloud wrote: It would require new coding and maybe a clientside update. While my idea allready exists in the game files, just remember back when the Logi LAV's had infantry support modules. They just need to flip the bonus from the reptool and maybe make the beam blue instead of yellow. I don't think coding and clientside updates are that big of an issue. We have had clientside updates recently, we had new stuff which had to be coded first, Rattati talked about adding a new gamemode in the next clientside update, and even something something AI drones on training maps. The dark cloud wrote: Another issue with your idea is that the logi would get no triage WP cause he actually doesnt generate HP for the game mechanic to work. A logis main WP generation comes from the logistic work he does and if that doesnt work out nobody wants to use it. This is the main reason why for example minlogis are so much liked simply cause of the reptool beeing aible to generate tons of WP. While with the nanohive bonus you only get 10 WP for resupplying ammo. Basically its like this: -no WP reward= no incentive to spec into it. It's true but also kinda sad and stupid. The goal should be to be useful to the team and help win matches by doing logi stuff, not just generate WPs for OBs. It's the same reason why it seems few people use scanners in pubmatches even though they are probably the most useful equipment for supporting your team in fights. (Also, I honestly think that the triage WP generation needs to get toned down a bit. Just my 0.02 ISK.) Generating WPs with the kind of shield tool I proposed also is an issue that can be solved by coding. Just make it so you get triage points for each shield regen pulse done on the suit you are repping and we are good to go when it comes to generating WPs. Sure, it might take a bit longer to make this kind of tool and there are issues to solve, but I'm willing to wait if at the end we get something that is new instead of a reskinned reptool for shields. Otherwise we might as well just make new reptool variants that regen shields instead of armor, or even reptools variants that regen shields AND repair armor (at a reduced rate of course). Less exciting but it'll do, I guess. So player x, y, and z skill into the shield rep tool and all use it to help win the match, not only is it sp they put somewhere they didn't plan on orriginally but it also gained them no WP or SP so their investment isn't paying for itself, their invested SP is then worthless. Sorry but WP for triage needs to be paid. *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 220	Posted - 2015.03.24 13:15:00 - [40] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: Don't make it the same tool!! I'm not a logi, but i do have proto tools... I've thought about it honestly... And why not separate the tools. No. It allows use without needing to skill and allows us to just go along with it rather than changing whatever we were working on like say an HMG or Grenades to get going and just do what people want the logis to be doing. Edit: by saying no I mean don't separate the tool skills, separate tools are just fine. Well not separate skills... But separate operations. Like I don't think that it should mirror the armor repair tool (aka increasing aHP/s) but should be opposite. But yes, definitely not separate skills :( that'll be quite... Unless. Entering the void and becoming wind. Message for 1v1 air to air

Ku Shala UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE Immortals of War 1324	Posted - 2015.03.24 14:01:00 - [41] - Quote shield recharge tool will never happen imagine any suit with 1 shield and 1 armour rep tool repairing would = imortal *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist x5)* Caldari Loyalist 22 million sp in drop suit upgrades
Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1784	Posted - 2015.03.24 14:19:00 - [42] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: The dark cloud wrote: It would require new coding and maybe a clientside update. While my idea allready exists in the game files, just remember back when the Logi LAV's had infantry support modules. They just need to flip the bonus from the reptool and maybe make the beam blue instead of yellow. I don't think coding and clientside updates are that big of an issue. We have had clientside updates recently, we had new stuff which had to be coded first, Rattati talked about adding a new gamemode in the next clientside update, and even something something AI drones on training maps. The dark cloud wrote: Another issue with your idea is that the logi would get no triage WP cause he actually doesnt generate HP for the game mechanic to work. A logis main WP generation comes from the logistic work he does and if that doesnt work out nobody wants to use it. This is the main reason why for example minlogis are so much liked simply cause of the reptool beeing aible to generate tons of WP. While with the nanohive bonus you only get 10 WP for resupplying ammo. Basically its like this: -no WP reward= no incentive to spec into it. It's true but also kinda sad and stupid. The goal should be to be useful to the team and help win matches by doing logi stuff, not just generate WPs for OBs. It's the same reason why it seems few people use scanners in pubmatches even though they are probably the most useful equipment for supporting your team in fights. (Also, I honestly think that the triage WP generation needs to get toned down a bit. Just my 0.02 ISK.) Generating WPs with the kind of shield tool I proposed also is an issue that can be solved by coding. Just make it so you get triage points for each shield regen pulse done on the suit you are repping and we are good to go when it comes to generating WPs. Sure, it might take a bit longer to make this kind of tool and there are issues to solve, but I'm willing to wait if at the end we get something that is new instead of a reskinned reptool for shields. Otherwise we might as well just make new reptool variants that regen shields instead of armor, or even reptools variants that regen shields AND repair armor (at a reduced rate of course). Less exciting but it'll do, I guess. So player x, y, and z skill into the shield rep tool and all use it to help win the match, not only is it sp they put somewhere they didn't plan on orriginally but it also gained them no WP or SP so their investment isn't paying for itself, their invested SP is then worthless. Sorry but WP for triage needs to be paid. Good job on only reading the first 3 sentences of my post and make yourself look like a fool as I stated in the second half how generating WPs would work. slowclap \| GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇJebus hates LAG 514.GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇ \|
Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1784	Posted - 2015.03.24 14:22:00 - [43] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: shield recharge tool will never happen imagine any suit with 1 shield and 1 armour rep tool repairing would = imortal Only as "immortal" as someone getting armor repped by 2 people. \| GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇJebus hates LAG 514.GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇ \|
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game RUST415 688	Posted - 2015.03.24 14:22:00 - [44] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: shield recharge tool will never happen imagine any suit with 1 shield and 1 armour rep tool repairing would = imortal Not much different from two armour rep tools on an armour stacked heavy.
The dark cloud Negative-Feedback. 4185	Posted - 2015.03.24 14:25:00 - [45] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: shield recharge tool will never happen imagine any suit with 1 shield and 1 armour rep tool repairing would = imortal Ever tried to kill a fully plated amarr sentinel whos getting repped by 2 minlogis? Yeah good luck with that and every decent player knows you should focus on your primary tank and not your secondary. It makes no sense for example to regen shields on a amarr assault cause he has only like 180HP shilds while having around 650-850HP armor. -every decent slayer focuses on either shield or armor on their suits -every decent tanker focuses on either shield or armor on their tanks You just simply dont want that a armor exclusive feature gets ported over to shields. A good fit for heavy-logi combo is to have the heavy buffer tank with as much armor as he can (extends reaction time for the heavy and the logi to catch on reps) and a logi with a decent reptool. Shield suits are massively underpowered and in my opinion putting a shield logi into the game would patch that hot topic by quite some marging. Cause in the end of the day when you play skirmish you have to get face to face with the enemy to take a point and not shot him from 100m+ with a rail rifle. Armor wins matches while shields get 0 support and you end up dead after 7 shots from a proto scrambler on a amarr asault with tripple damage mods. I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2418	Posted - 2015.03.24 15:24:00 - [46] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: I'm not opposed to shield recharger tools, but I think it would be kinda boring if they worked just like armor rep tools for shields. Why not make them a bit different? Instead of giving them a set number of shield hp/s I think it would be interesting if shield tools worked kinda like a combined recharger + regulator. (Just some numbers out of my ass so you get what I'm talking about. Totally not balanced.) PRO Shield Modulator Tool target receives: +65% shield regen -35% shield depleted delay Cal Logi could get a bonus to those tools, e.g. 25% bonus to regen = 81.25%; 50% to delay = 52.5% In that example a Cal Sentinel with 3x extenders + 1x energizer + 1x regulator could have a regen rate of ~95hp/s, with a delay of ~1.16s while still having 830 shields and 100% mobility. The idea behind that is that shield suits couldn't just stack a ton of extenders and run around with a 0s delay shield rep, but instead continue to work like shields usually do. The shield user can make the shield tool more useful by using rechargers/energizers + regulators on his suit, but he has to give up hp for it. So you want a piece of equipment that's still hilariously underpowered compared to proto repair tools? Proto rep tools are usually more than twelve times better than a single complex rep, provide that rep for minimal powergrid and cpu costs and provide that repair from a range, to multiple targets. All I have to say right here is ** your idea of 'balance', that shield 'rep tool' is barely equivalent to two complex shield modules.. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1786	Posted - 2015.03.24 15:45:00 - [47] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: I'm not opposed to shield recharger tools, but I think it would be kinda boring if they worked just like armor rep tools for shields. Why not make them a bit different? Instead of giving them a set number of shield hp/s I think it would be interesting if shield tools worked kinda like a combined recharger + regulator. (Just some numbers out of my ass so you get what I'm talking about. Totally not balanced.) PRO Shield Modulator Tool target receives: +65% shield regen -35% shield depleted delay Cal Logi could get a bonus to those tools, e.g. 25% bonus to regen = 81.25%; 50% to delay = 52.5% In that example a Cal Sentinel with 3x extenders + 1x energizer + 1x regulator could have a regen rate of ~95hp/s, with a delay of ~1.16s while still having 830 shields and 100% mobility. The idea behind that is that shield suits couldn't just stack a ton of extenders and run around with a 0s delay shield rep, but instead continue to work like shields usually do. The shield user can make the shield tool more useful by using rechargers/energizers + regulators on his suit, but he has to give up hp for it. So you want a piece of equipment that's still hilariously underpowered compared to proto repair tools? Proto rep tools are usually more than twelve times better than a single complex rep, provide that rep for minimal powergrid and cpu costs and provide that repair from a range, to multiple targets. All I have to say right here is ** your idea of 'balance', that shield 'rep tool' is barely equivalent to two complex shield modules.. As I said in my original post, the numbers are Jebus McKing wrote:** Totally not balanced. I just used those numbers to get the idea across of how it could work and be more than just a copy&paste rep-tool for shields. The numbers obviously need to get tweaked heavily. I thought I had made that clear with my original post but obviously not clear enough for some people. Calm your ****. \| GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇJebus hates LAG 514.GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇ \|
Ku Shala UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE Immortals of War 1324	Posted - 2015.03.24 16:32:00 - [48] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Ku Shala wrote: shield recharge tool will never happen imagine any suit with 1 shield and 1 armour rep tool repairing would = imortal Ever tried to kill a fully plated amarr sentinel whos getting repped by 2 minlogis? Yeah good luck with that and every decent player knows you should focus on your primary tank and not your secondary. It makes no sense for example to regen shields on a amarr assault cause he has only like 180HP shilds while having around 650-850HP armor. -every decent slayer focuses on either shield or armor on their suits -every decent tanker focuses on either shield or armor on their tanks You just simply dont want that a armor exclusive feature gets ported over to shields. A good fit for heavy-logi combo is to have the heavy buffer tank with as much armor as he can (extends reaction time for the heavy and the logi to catch on reps) and a logi with a decent reptool. Shield suits are massively underpowered and in my opinion putting a shield logi into the game would patch that hot topic by quite some marging. Cause in the end of the day when you play skirmish you have to get face to face with the enemy to take a point and not shot him from 100m+ with a rail rifle. Armor wins matches while shields get 0 support and you end up dead after 7 shots from a proto scrambler on a amarr asault with tripple damage mods. can you imagine the wp generated from a dual rep tool logi, what about an amar with 2 extenders and a bunch of armour repairers and reactive plates hybrid tanking will be the new fotm . for example if you just made polar opposites of the armour rep tools (I know unrealistic) it would constantly buy you 1 extra second of armour repair ~doubling the effects of the armour rep tool by also using a shield repair tool. (more affective than two armour reps) what happens when you are being repped by a shield tool how can your suit identify delay . How will this affect vehicles? remember logi lav's with shield transporting how op did that make infantry where do you draw the line of balance can I dual rep with a shield rep tool? can my core shield repair rep @ 130+hp/sec, how do you balance two tools that act similar that are not comparable because armour and shield work different(100 shield Gëá 100 armour hp) if you r e trying to head on with shields your doing it wrong, they are flank/cover while a firing team advances, better solution to shield repairers make a/b type suits for all races (or make basic frames work the opposite of specialist ie caldari medium basic frame would be hybrid or armour focused) *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist x5)* Caldari Loyalist 22 million sp in drop suit upgrades
The dark cloud Negative-Feedback. 4185	Posted - 2015.03.24 18:11:00 - [49] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: can you imagine the wp generated from a dual rep tool logi, what about an amar with 2 extenders and a bunch of armour repairers and reactive plates hybrid tanking will be the new fotm . for example if you just made polar opposites of the armour rep tools (I know unrealistic) it would constantly buy you 1 extra second of armour repair ~doubling the effects of the armour rep tool by also using a shield repair tool. (more affective than two armour reps) what happens when you are being repped by a shield tool how can your suit identify delay . How will this affect vehicles? remember logi lav's with shield transporting how op did that make infantry where do you draw the line of balance can I dual rep with a shield rep tool? can my core shield repair rep @ 130+hp/sec, how do you balance two tools that act similar that are not comparable because armour and shield work different(100 shield Gëá 100 armour hp) if you r e trying to head on with shields your doing it wrong, they are flank/cover while a firing team advances, better solution to shield repairers make a/b type suits for all races (or make basic frames work the opposite of specialist ie caldari medium basic frame would be hybrid or armour focused) So what about it if you used a focused shield recharger? Same thing applies to min logis using their focused reptool and the solution to that are grenades which work cause the range of those variants makes you do a piggyback on a heavy. I fail to see your point. Im telling you again that hybrid tanking does not work yeah you could slack shield extenders on a armor tanked suit but sacrifice jump height+damage mods for it. And the meta for who is repping who would just end up like this: 2 reptools repping a plated sentinel> 2 shield recharger tools recharging a cal. sentinel 2 reptools on any armor suit> 1 reptool and 1 shield recharger tool on any shield suit The math is quite simple behind it. The shield recharger tools have less HP/s generation then a reptool but are better when sticked onto a suit that makes use of rechargers/energizers (which means less HP on the suit). The catching point comes in when 2 logis are present. Using 2 shield recharger tools surely helps but the natural regen on your dropsuit only stacks once. Armor reptools get then a advantage cause armor regenerated per sec matches the shield regen and the suit with more HP will win which is in 99% of the times the amarr/gal sentinel So in the end armor still trumps shields when grouped but when its 2vs2 (2 heavys and their logis facing each other) it would be a equal fight cause its a fight of high regen vs high HP. If you dont believe me ask every decent eve player what he thinks about "dual tanking". You will just get laughed at. I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
Cypher Nil Fireteam Tempest 113	Posted - 2015.03.24 18:54:00 - [50] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Would be nice if we could get a shield recharger tool and a logi that matches that. Maybe change the Caldari Logi bonus from nanohives to something like this: -Caldari Logistic +10% additional range for shield recharger tools and +5% shield regen rate per lvl Shield recharger tool lineup with name, dropsuit shield regen, vehicle shield regen and range (in that order): STD: -Shield recharger tool/ 20HP/50HP/ 10m -Flux shield recharger tool/ same stats as the basic but 15m range ADV: -CLT-2 shield recharger tool/30HP/75HP/15m -CLT-5 axis shield recharger tool/ 22.5HP/100HP/15m -CLT-8 Triage shield recharger tool/ 37.5HP/60HP/15m PRO: -Kaalikiota shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/15m -Ishukone Flux shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/22.5m -Wyrkomi Triage shield recharger tool/44HP/75HP/15.m -Focussed shield recharger tool/62.5HP/ 110HP/7.5m The base regen stats are low cause when pointed at a dropsuit it stacks with their native shield regen. Cause neither do i or the competetive community see a point in having a bonus to nanohives cause we can carry 6 of those allready at ADV lvl. It would make the suit aswell more popular cause if we are honest here all the other logis have something to keep you going while the caldari only has ammo, which every 1 can now carry tons of it to begin with. I recognise the need for it but this approach is going to be OP, shields are meant to take damage when your out of cover and recharge faster then armour when you've dove back into cover. recharging them like armour breaks where they fit in the design of the game. What I would rather see is the tool recharge shields very slightly ONLY IF THEY ARE RECHARGING THEMSELVES. and OVERCHARGE their capacity by a certain amount that depletes down to normal over a period of time. giving an advantage like armour recharging does but before combat has occured. this is how they would work. STD: -Shield recharger tool/ 10HP/25HP/ 10m -Flux shield recharger tool/ same stats as the basic but 15m range [STD Shield recharger's overcharge shields by 100 hp, this depletes by 1 HP per second] ADV: -CLT-2 shield recharger tool/15HP/35HP/15m -CLT-5 axis shield recharger tool/ 15HP/50HP/15m -CLT-8 Triage shield recharger tool/ 15HP/30HP/15m [STD Shield recharger's overcharge shields by 150 hp, this depletes by 1.5 HP per second] PRO: -Kaalikiota shield recharger tool/25HP/55HP/15m -Ishukone Flux shield recharger tool/25HP/55HP/22.5m -Wyrkomi Triage shield recharger tool/22HP/35HP/15.m -Focussed shield recharger tool/30HP/ 60HP/7.5m [STD Shield recharger's overcharge shields by 200 hp, this depletes by 2 HP per second] +21 Million SP Merc Caldari Loyalist Of course we won, now when do I get paid?

Ku Shala UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE Immortals of War 1325	Posted - 2015.03.24 19:06:00 - [51] - Quote 1. if it does not "repair its not a repair tool its a shield transporter 2. this is dust not eve IDC what eve is or says or laughs at 3(yeah your numbers had no thoughts but here an idea how op it would be) if your shield is repairing @ 106.35)hp/s base (proto cal sentinel with 2 complex energisers and 1 basic energiser) and you are getting 10.38 native armour reps(using the transporter delay decreased idea) you would roughly be getting 175.48 shields/ second in less than 1 second. for the second handheld shield transporter how would that calculate +65% on base......175.48-106.35= 69.13 would make recharge 244.61in half second for 2 tools *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist x5)* Caldari Loyalist 22 million sp in drop suit upgrades
The dark cloud Negative-Feedback. 4185	Posted - 2015.03.24 19:52:00 - [52] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: 1. if it does not "repair its not a repair tool its a shield transporter 2. this is dust not eve IDC what eve is or says or laughs at 3(yeah your numbers had no thoughts but here an idea how op it would be) if your shield is repairing @ 106.35)hp/s base (proto cal sentinel with 2 complex energisers and 1 basic energiser) and you are getting 10.38 native armour reps(using the transporter delay decreased idea) you would roughly be getting 175.48 shields/ second in less than 1 second. for the second handheld shield transporter how would that calculate +65% on base......175.48-106.35= 69.13 would make recharge 244.61in half second for 2 tools 2X core focused reptool= 312HP/s armor repaired when used on a minlogi. So the amarr sentinel has 1344HP AND regens with more then you claimed. So how is my idea again "OP" when the sentinel in question that you posted has only 612HP on shields which is less then 50% of the amarr sentinels armor. Point proven that you want this to be a armor exclusive thing. Any further discussion with you is pointless cause all your arguments are invalid. I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
The Dark Cloud Negative-Feedback. 4292	Posted - 2015.04.04 03:54:00 - [53] - Quote Bump cause i dont want to make another thread about this. And because shields vs armor is still imbalanced and the cal. logi is useless. I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
Darkstalker Astrea Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2015.04.04 04:13:00 - [54] - Quote What we need are BLANKETS Magic blankets that shield us from fire Wield the power of blankets and you cannot be harmed Until You realize the curse As you catch fire and are burned to ashes you realize the blanket was a trick all along
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 955	Posted - 2015.04.04 11:13:00 - [55] - Quote shaman oga wrote: It would be OP. Imagine a cal sent, with 80 or even more shield recharge and no delays. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what the **** do you think amar sentinels are getting from remote armor reps? they get at least 80 reps with no delays, and in most cases its more than that. proto reppers rep two guys at once for 88 hp/s in addition to any rep hives they may be standing in along with whatever local repper they may have. let say they have one of each. 88+70+10= 168 hp/s and they have more hp than shield suits and can use damage mods at the same time. you sir... need to stop doing drugs
DJINN Jecture MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH 315	Posted - 2015.04.04 20:56:00 - [56] - Quote The Dark Cloud wrote: Bump cause i dont want to make another thread about this. And because shields vs armor is still imbalanced and the cal. logi is useless. I'm not sure if you noticed this but there are a lot of things that are useless, some are just less useless than others. *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*
DJINN Jecture MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH 315	Posted - 2015.04.04 20:58:00 - [57] - Quote The Dark Cloud wrote: Ku Shala wrote: 1. if it does not "repair its not a repair tool its a shield transporter 2. this is dust not eve IDC what eve is or says or laughs at 3(yeah your numbers had no thoughts but here an idea how op it would be) if your shield is repairing @ 106.35)hp/s base (proto cal sentinel with 2 complex energisers and 1 basic energiser) and you are getting 10.38 native armour reps(using the transporter delay decreased idea) you would roughly be getting 175.48 shields/ second in less than 1 second. for the second handheld shield transporter how would that calculate +65% on base......175.48-106.35= 69.13 would make recharge 244.61in half second for 2 tools 2X core focused reptool= 312HP/s armor repaired when used on a minlogi. So the amarr sentinel has 1344HP AND regens with more then you claimed. So how is my idea again "OP" when the sentinel in question that you posted has only 612HP on shields which is less then 50% of the amarr sentinels armor. Point proven that you want this to be a armor exclusive thing. Any further discussion with you is pointless cause all your arguments are invalid. We had this argument during closed beta and tested it both ways, game balance argues that shield reppers be limited to modules on the suit. *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*
bathtubist TRUE SAVAGES Learning Alliance 80	Posted - 2015.04.05 11:02:00 - [58] - Quote its real easy for someone to eat all the shields nowadays
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4372	Posted - 2015.04.19 18:40:00 - [59] - Quote I've heard it suggested that the Shield Transporter should be an active mod (new code required) That would function, very simply put, as an active mod that created a "reverse Flux" effect for a limited time span. Thus restoring friendly shields by a substantial amount with an AoE centered around the Logi player for a brief span before going back on cool down. This would allow for a unique more mobility / hit and run playstyle for shields (vs armor) while still giving enhanced utility. It would also be a very active tactical role because the timing of use would be very key in certain contexts. CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
Alena Ventrallis Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 3021	Posted - 2015.04.19 18:52:00 - [60] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I've heard it suggested that the Shield Transporter should be an active mod (new code required) That would function, very simply put, as an active mod that created a "reverse Flux" effect for a limited time span. Thus restoring friendly shields by a substantial amount with an AoE centered around the Logi player for a brief span before going back on cool down. This would allow for a unique more mobility / hit and run playstyle for shields (vs armor) while still giving enhanced utility. It would also be a very active tactical role because the timing of use would be very key in certain contexts. http://media.giphy.com/media/LVNl92B8wj7pK/giphy.gif Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor

Mobius Wyvern Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 6139	Posted - 2015.04.19 19:34:00 - [61] - Quote The Dark Cloud wrote: Would be nice if we could get a shield recharger tool and a logi that matches that. Maybe change the Caldari Logi bonus from nanohives to something like this: -Caldari Logistic +10% additional range for shield recharger tools and +5% shield regen rate per lvl Shield recharger tool lineup with name, dropsuit shield regen, vehicle shield regen and range (in that order): STD: -Shield recharger tool/ 20HP/50HP/ 10m -Flux shield recharger tool/ same stats as the basic but 15m range ADV: -CLT-2 shield recharger tool/30HP/75HP/15m -CLT-5 axis shield recharger tool/ 22.5HP/100HP/15m -CLT-8 Triage shield recharger tool/ 37.5HP/60HP/15m PRO: -Kaalikiota shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/15m -Ishukone Flux shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/22.5m -Wyrkomi Triage shield recharger tool/44HP/75HP/15.m -Focussed shield recharger tool/62.5HP/ 110HP/7.5m The base regen stats are low cause when pointed at a dropsuit it stacks with their native shield regen. Cause neither do i or the competetive community see a point in having a bonus to nanohives cause we can carry 6 of those allready at ADV lvl. It would make the suit aswell more popular cause if we are honest here all the other logis have something to keep you going while the caldari only has ammo, which every 1 can now carry tons of it to begin with. The game is in serious need of this. I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV R.I.P. Kesha
The Dark Cloud The Rainbow Effect 4496	Posted - 2015.04.19 23:02:00 - [62] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I've heard it suggested that the Shield Transporter should be an active mod (new code required) That would function, very simply put, as an active mod that created a "reverse Flux" effect for a limited time span. Thus restoring friendly shields by a substantial amount with an AoE centered around the Logi player for a brief span before going back on cool down. This would allow for a unique more mobility / hit and run playstyle for shields (vs armor) while still giving enhanced utility. It would also be a very active tactical role because the timing of use would be very key in certain contexts. Sounds interesting enough for me so i bite. Just let it bring up your wrist interface (like with a cloak field) and once you activate it it generates a field around that logi (nanohive effects any one?) and restores shields on yourself and any 1 whos close to you as long you are holding the wrist interface up. When you drop it/energy runs out (same like with cloaks) the field deactivates. That way you could regen shields of even more then 2 guys at once for a limited amount of time. It would make a great assaulting tool. Edit: give the cal logi then a bonus for duration and cooldown time instead of the silly nanohive bonus. I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 790	Posted - 2015.04.20 22:18:00 - [63] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I've heard it suggested that the Shield Transporter should be an active mod (new code required) That would function, very simply put, as an active mod that created a "reverse Flux" effect for a limited time span. Thus restoring friendly shields by a substantial amount with an AoE centered around the Logi player for a brief span before going back on cool down. This would allow for a unique more mobility / hit and run playstyle for shields (vs armor) while still giving enhanced utility. It would also be a very active tactical role because the timing of use would be very key in certain contexts. Even just an activated piece of equipment would be fine. Doesn't need programming or code for an active module - until we want to go there. I would simply have a recharge timer similar to the active scanner. Use once, must wait, then activate again. possible radius expansion, but a one time inverse flux would be great. No new animation. Take the cloak module and use that for the in screen animation and hud view so we don't have to build a new model. Could have a pulse module and pulsed 3x in 6 seconds allowing the carrier to run through a group :) The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18387	Posted - 2015.04.20 23:28:00 - [64] - Quote The Dark Cloud wrote: Would be nice if we could get a shield recharger tool and a logi that matches that. Maybe change the Caldari Logi bonus from nanohives to something like this: -Caldari Logistic +10% additional range for shield recharger tools and +5% shield regen rate per lvl Shield recharger tool lineup with name, dropsuit shield regen, vehicle shield regen and range (in that order): STD: -Shield recharger tool/ 20HP/50HP/ 10m -Flux shield recharger tool/ same stats as the basic but 15m range ADV: -CLT-2 shield recharger tool/30HP/75HP/15m -CLT-5 axis shield recharger tool/ 22.5HP/100HP/15m -CLT-8 Triage shield recharger tool/ 37.5HP/60HP/15m PRO: -Kaalikiota shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/15m -Ishukone Flux shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/22.5m -Wyrkomi Triage shield recharger tool/44HP/75HP/15.m -Focussed shield recharger tool/62.5HP/ 110HP/7.5m The base regen stats are low cause when pointed at a dropsuit it stacks with their native shield regen. Cause neither do i or the competetive community see a point in having a bonus to nanohives cause we can carry 6 of those allready at ADV lvl. It would make the suit aswell more popular cause if we are honest here all the other logis have something to keep you going while the caldari only has ammo, which every 1 can now carry tons of it to begin with. Both the Caldari and Minmatar Logi should have Shield Rep Boosts. The Amarr and Gallente should have their Armour Repairer Boosts. GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥ -The Nameless City
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 1352	Posted - 2015.04.21 03:26:00 - [65] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Cross Atu wrote: I've heard it suggested that the Shield Transporter should be an active mod (new code required) That would function, very simply put, as an active mod that created a "reverse Flux" effect for a limited time span. Thus restoring friendly shields by a substantial amount with an AoE centered around the Logi player for a brief span before going back on cool down. This would allow for a unique more mobility / hit and run playstyle for shields (vs armor) while still giving enhanced utility. It would also be a very active tactical role because the timing of use would be very key in certain contexts. Even just an activated piece of equipment would be fine. Doesn't need programming or code for an active module - until we want to go there. I would simply have a recharge timer similar to the active scanner. Use once, must wait, then activate again. possible radius expansion, but a one time inverse flux would be great. No new animation. Take the cloak module and use that for the in screen animation and hud view so we don't have to build a new model. Could have a pulse module and pulsed 3x in 6 seconds allowing the carrier to run through a group :) The idea I've discussed with Cross previously was in fact an active piece of equipment... And that is what he means here, actually. The shield version of the reptool I envision would function differently from the armour reptool, mainly because I believe we shouldn't be trying to make armour and shield tanking function identically. Instead of being a lock on target, continuous HP repair while held, the shield rep tool would have an area of effect and a duration of effect, followed by a cooldown, similar to how the scanner functions. The effect itself would be the removal of shield regen delays and a reasonable (percentage based) boost to the native repair rate of the affected suit(s). This would allow the shield logi to improve the shield repair of his nearby teammates in bursts, while free to engage in other actions between them (while on cooldown). Armour and shield tanking lend themselves to different combat styles, and I think an armour supoort logi should work differently from a shield repair logi, too. The term "Reverse Flux" being thrown out there makes me think of an even more radical difference in how the two types of rep tools could work. Where the armour rep tool provides a steady stream of repairs for as long as it is locked on and active, the shield repair tool would provide an instant shield booster effect, restoring full shields in a pulse (with maybe a limited duration recharge delay reduction), with a cooldown/charge mechanic to limit it. Very intriguing. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4440	Posted - 2015.04.21 04:26:00 - [66] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Cross Atu wrote: I've heard it suggested that the Shield Transporter should be an active mod (new code required) That would function, very simply put, as an active mod that created a "reverse Flux" effect for a limited time span. Thus restoring friendly shields by a substantial amount with an AoE centered around the Logi player for a brief span before going back on cool down. This would allow for a unique more mobility / hit and run playstyle for shields (vs armor) while still giving enhanced utility. It would also be a very active tactical role because the timing of use would be very key in certain contexts. Even just an activated piece of equipment would be fine. Doesn't need programming or code for an active module - until we want to go there. I would simply have a recharge timer similar to the active scanner. Use once, must wait, then activate again. possible radius expansion, but a one time inverse flux would be great. No new animation. Take the cloak module and use that for the in screen animation and hud view so we don't have to build a new model. Could have a pulse module and pulsed 3x in 6 seconds allowing the carrier to run through a group :) So I have been informed that my vernacular is non-standard. In other words I think of all things that can be slotted into a frame as mods. It seems this has caused some confusion so I'd like to clear that up. The mod I described was meant to be an equipment mod. I hope that helps reduce any muddle I may have caused. CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 795	Posted - 2015.04.23 18:05:00 - [67] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Cross Atu wrote: I've heard it suggested that the Shield Transporter should be an active mod (new code required) That would function, very simply put, as an active mod that created a "reverse Flux" effect for a limited time span. Thus restoring friendly shields by a substantial amount with an AoE centered around the Logi player for a brief span before going back on cool down. This would allow for a unique more mobility / hit and run playstyle for shields (vs armor) while still giving enhanced utility. It would also be a very active tactical role because the timing of use would be very key in certain contexts. Even just an activated piece of equipment would be fine. Doesn't need programming or code for an active module - until we want to go there. I would simply have a recharge timer similar to the active scanner. Use once, must wait, then activate again. possible radius expansion, but a one time inverse flux would be great. No new animation. Take the cloak module and use that for the in screen animation and hud view so we don't have to build a new model. Could have a pulse module and pulsed 3x in 6 seconds allowing the carrier to run through a group :) The idea I've discussed with Cross previously was in fact an active piece of equipment... And that is what he means here, actually. The shield version of the reptool I envision would function differently from the armour reptool, mainly because I believe we shouldn't be trying to make armour and shield tanking function identically. Instead of being a lock on target, continuous HP repair while held, the shield rep tool would have an area of effect and a duration of effect, followed by a cooldown, similar to how the scanner functions. The effect itself would be the removal of shield regen delays and a reasonable (percentage based) boost to the native repair rate of the affected suit(s). This would allow the shield logi to improve the shield repair of his nearby teammates in bursts, while free to engage in other actions between them (while on cooldown). Armour and shield tanking lend themselves to different combat styles, and I think an armour supoort logi should work differently from a shield repair logi, too. The term "Reverse Flux" being thrown out there makes me think of an even more radical difference in how the two types of rep tools could work. Where the armour rep tool provides a steady stream of repairs for as long as it is locked on and active, the shield repair tool would provide an instant shield booster effect, restoring full shields in a pulse (with maybe a limited duration recharge delay reduction), with a cooldown/charge mechanic to limit it. Very intriguing. o7 When I read the term "flux" my mind just went right to the grenade as an animation and method - explosive shield boost. But I can see now more of what was meant. Thanks for the clarification. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
The Dark Cloud The Rainbow Effect 4579	Posted - 2015.04.23 18:30:00 - [68] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Cross Atu wrote: I've heard it suggested that the Shield Transporter should be an active mod (new code required) That would function, very simply put, as an active mod that created a "reverse Flux" effect for a limited time span. Thus restoring friendly shields by a substantial amount with an AoE centered around the Logi player for a brief span before going back on cool down. This would allow for a unique more mobility / hit and run playstyle for shields (vs armor) while still giving enhanced utility. It would also be a very active tactical role because the timing of use would be very key in certain contexts. Even just an activated piece of equipment would be fine. Doesn't need programming or code for an active module - until we want to go there. I would simply have a recharge timer similar to the active scanner. Use once, must wait, then activate again. possible radius expansion, but a one time inverse flux would be great. No new animation. Take the cloak module and use that for the in screen animation and hud view so we don't have to build a new model. Could have a pulse module and pulsed 3x in 6 seconds allowing the carrier to run through a group :) So I have been informed that my vernacular is non-standard. In other words I think of all things that can be slotted into a frame as mods. It seems this has caused some confusion so I'd like to clear that up. The mod I described was meant to be an equipment mod. I hope that helps reduce any muddle I may have caused. Quite obvious to me, cloak fields are essentally aswell "active modules" in that regard. Just throw that thing into the game and we get a step closer to much more interesting gameplay as just "stack plates and damage mods". I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 630	Posted - 2015.04.23 18:54:00 - [69] - Quote The Dark Cloud wrote: Elpedo Hughes wrote: Seriously though I don't support it as a armour and shield tanked player with 2 logis with 1 shield and 1 armour rep tool would be OP (hence my NAMELESS post) I would mind a shield booster like on tanks though. Ya know that the basic shield regen on armor suits are extremely bad? It would still make more sense to stick a 2nd reptool on him so his uber buffed armor tank regens quicker. Think of it this way: one armor rep tool + 1 shield rep tool = better defense against different damage types through your rep tool regen.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18459	Posted - 2015.04.23 20:44:00 - [70] - Quote Don't know if I am for the "Reverse Flux" but personal Shield Injector sounds cool. It's the ki.nd of thing I would love to have myself for an Armour Suit. Personal Shield Injector/ Emergency Nanite Repair Systems Kit. GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥ -The Nameless City

Nova Knife Professor Nova's Super Ethical Auction House 2577	Posted - 2015.04.23 22:51:00 - [71] - Quote Back in the day, there was an idea that you could hit someone with a shield rep tool, that instead of giving them them a set amount, you gave them back their own native HP regen at zero delay while you were zapping them with energy for their shield. The reason this idea seemed more reasonable than just pure HP to shields, is that it prevented "bricktanks" & Logi combos from being unreasonably good, yet still offered a pretty comparable (albeit lower) amount of survivability support to armor "bricktanks" with their own logi support, as the tradeoff was less HP for more mobility, etc. The downside was that multiple logi would not stack, as armor can. Which is a pretty significant difference.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 630	Posted - 2015.04.24 03:34:00 - [72] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: Back in the day, there was an idea that you could hit someone with a shield rep tool, that instead of giving them them a set amount, you gave them back their own native HP regen at zero delay while you were zapping them with energy for their shield. The reason this idea seemed more reasonable than just pure HP to shields, is that it prevented "bricktanks" & Logi combos from being unreasonably good, yet still offered a pretty comparable (albeit lower) amount of survivability support to armor "bricktanks" with their own logi support, as the tradeoff was less HP for more mobility, etc. The downside was that multiple logi would not stack, as armor can. Which is a pretty significant difference. It also means that due to the low native shield regen of most suits and the % base functioning of energizers the shield rep tool would be crap on everything but maybe a caldari heavy or cal scout. Not to mention very difficult to fit something to utilize the shield rep tool for anything under prototype because of the stupidly lopsided energizer/recharger CPU costs. Also shield suits would have to fit specifically to work with the rep tool, then be worthless without it due to low HP, whereas armor stacking is still very much functional for a while without a repper present. Without significant rework to how shield suits and shield energizers and rechargers work, I would hate to see a shield rep tool like this.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 809	Posted - 2015.04.24 06:49:00 - [73] - Quote There is no reason for this to not be a strait rep the same way armor reppers work. You want parity -- you'll have to accept that. If armor reps aren't unbalanced then a strait shield rep wouldn't be unbalanced.
DJINN Jecture Templar of the Glowing Blade 349	Posted - 2015.04.24 13:23:00 - [74] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: This would be OP, for instance your team is that fricken good that they take no armor damage, so you switch to your shield rep tool from your armor rep tool, then drop them some Gauged hives to supplement their bullets. Unstoppable force! Really? Present your evidence. Oh sorry, that was a quote unreferenced from CB CCP. We were told shield logi was not possible in dust and broken, my above statement was not confirmed by anything other than what was said. This said it was based on one tool for both at the same time not separate tools. Oh and btw, the above comment also is thick with sarcasm, as evidence "fricken" and "your team". IKR. *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*
DJINN Jecture Templar of the Glowing Blade 349	Posted - 2015.04.24 13:43:00 - [75] - Quote The Dark Cloud wrote: Cross Atu wrote: I've heard it suggested that the Shield Transporter should be an active mod (new code required) That would function, very simply put, as an active mod that created a "reverse Flux" effect for a limited time span. Thus restoring friendly shields by a substantial amount with an AoE centered around the Logi player for a brief span before going back on cool down. This would allow for a unique more mobility / hit and run playstyle for shields (vs armor) while still giving enhanced utility. It would also be a very active tactical role because the timing of use would be very key in certain contexts. Sounds interesting enough for me so i bite. Just let it bring up your wrist interface (like with a cloak field) and once you activate it it generates a field around that logi (nanohive effects any one?) and restores shields on yourself and any 1 whos close to you as long you are holding the wrist interface up. When you drop it/energy runs out (same like with cloaks) the field deactivates. That way you could regen shields of even more then 2 guys at once for a limited amount of time. It would make a great assaulting tool. Edit: give the cal logi then a bonus for duration and cooldown time instead of the silly nanohive bonus. Seems reasonable, but I am reminded of people running around with bubble shields (yes I understand this isn't a shield) and tanking a good amount of bullets and not only do they not go down but the logi stays up as well safe in his bubble, so this idea may be broken without more work. *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*
Gyn Wallace Ready to Play 341	Posted - 2015.04.24 14:30:00 - [76] - Quote Parity with the numbers would make shield tanks superior, since you don't die when you run out of shields. The potential for OPness isn't in the sense of shield tanks vs. armor tanks, but in the sense that when dual-tanked, you no longer have the option of fitting the right weapon to do the job of burning though a sentinel who is either shield OR armor tanked. With a shield rep tool available, I'd plan on carrying both with my logi, and teaming up with another logi and two dual tanked sentinels.* Both logis would run with weapons out, but one switches to a shield rep tool when we make contact. If the contact is a bit heavier, both logies switch to rep tools as needed. With a Cal logi repping shields and a armor repping logi (whether its still the Min or becomes the Gal or Amarr bonus) repping armor, what weapon will the enemy use to punch through the reps? If the enemy is carrying lots of scrambler rifles, the Cal logi switches to his armor rep tool. If the enemy is carrying lots of combat rifles, both logis switch to shield rep tools. The potential for OPness isn't as much about shield vs. armor tanking, as the potential for dual tanking and dual reps. That's potentially much harder to counter than a pair of armor tanked sentinels and a pair of armor repping logis, which can get chewed up pretty easily by mass drivers and rail rifles. Switching to a loadout to counter a shield tanked small sentinel/logi squad is harder than it is for their logis to switch rep tools. *Without damage resistance modules on drop suits, I don't see a disadvantage for dual tanking, other than the opportunity cost; unlike the weakness of dual tanking in Eve Online, instead of focusing on a singular tank. The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4515	Posted - 2015.04.24 15:36:00 - [77] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: Parity with the numbers would make shield tanks superior, since you don't die when you run out of shields. The potential for OPness isn't in the sense of shield tanks vs. armor tanks, but in the sense that when dual-tanked, you no longer have the option of fitting the right weapon to do the job of burning though a sentinel who is either shield OR armor tanked. With a shield rep tool available, I'd plan on carrying both with my logi, and teaming up with another logi and two dual tanked sentinels.* Both logis would run with weapons out, but one switches to a shield rep tool when we make contact. If the contact is a bit heavier, both logies switch to rep tools as needed. With a Cal logi repping shields and a armor repping logi (whether its still the Min or becomes the Gal or Amarr bonus) repping armor, what weapon will the enemy use to punch through the reps? If the enemy is carrying lots of scrambler rifles, the Cal logi switches to his armor rep tool. If the enemy is carrying lots of combat rifles, both logis switch to shield rep tools. The potential for OPness isn't as much about shield vs. armor tanking, as the potential for dual tanking and dual reps. That's potentially much harder to counter than a pair of armor tanked sentinels and a pair of armor repping logis, which can get chewed up pretty easily by mass drivers and rail rifles. Switching to a loadout to counter a shield tanked small sentinel/logi squad is harder than it is for their logis to switch rep tools. Without damage resistance modules on drop suits, I don't see a disadvantage for dual tanking, other than the opportunity cost; unlike the weakness of dual tanking in Eve Online, instead of focusing on a singular tank. Your point is well made and I think you are spot on with regards to where we could see this over performing. That being said I can think of several counters to this group off the top of my head, before I list them let me say that each is assuming the coordinated action of more than one merc, but as they are counters to the coordinated action of several mercs that seems entirely appropriate to me. The first major aspect is alpha damage, conceptually speaking the counter to sustained eHP via rergen is alpha. The second aspect is Splash, against a tightly packed group splash becomes more effective. The third is dictating engagement*, this is largely defined by range, mobility, and eWar. Some examples; Counter the 4 man heavy logi combo with a HAV or DS. Even with double reps and the sentinel damage resistance the squad is not going to survive open conflict with a blaster Maddy or missile DS. Use sniper or LR fire to pin down the squad or destroy it. Add a forge gunner to prevent use of vehicles and add even more OHK potential. If they are in a closed environment such as the Gal socket or the Cal "train" deploy fire from above with REs, MDs, PLCs, timed Flux + Locus strikes. The Logi cannot readily keep cover or hide behind the heavy when being attacked from above. Employ talented NK scouts, damped and fast these strikes could wipe the logi off the board regardless of reps. Lacking scouts assaults with myo/melee fits could fulfill a similar role. For those with high gun game use of the Scram or Bolt pistols to headshot opposing forces is highly effective. Lacking high precision aiming use of coordinated commando damage provides a similar net effect, a bonused shotgun or PLC is going to be hard to rep through, 2-3 in rapid succession is withering. If your squad is finding their squad too tough to crack due to relative gun game, composition, or socket layout use 'soft counters' by keeping them scanned as targets of opportunity (one cannot be mobile and entrenched simultaneously) and work around them to claim other objectives thus counter balancing their effect on attaining the win and giving any other squads in the game with more applicable composition the chance to counter the 'heavy squad'. If all else fails, remain effective in the overall battle and earn an OB (side note here, I think the price on those should come down a bit). On a closing note, none of the above is a guaranteed win against a talented squad, but even with shield reps in the game a double rep squad is not a guaranteed win either and the closer we can come to encounters being down to A) Player skill B) Player choice (i.e. which tools to bring to the field and where/when to employ them) the better off the overall game will be in my view. However, your point also underscores for me the value of having shield reps be a cloak style active mod rather than a lock on style mod like the armor rep. 0.02 ISK Cross CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
The Dark Cloud The Rainbow Effect 4587	Posted - 2015.04.24 17:47:00 - [78] - Quote Still dont see a reason why this shouldnt happend. Yesterday i actually managed to get into a ambush where the opposition had a full squad with amarr assaults and repping logis. The proto logis could latch onto two assaults, constantly repping them like mad (with over 900HP armor). My only choice was to sit at distance with a laser rifle and kill the logis on open field once they where stupid enough to get out of cover. However i still got killed cause the assaults closed in, i had to reload and got murdered. We have armor reps that have a range of ~30m, heal 93HP/s and can lock onto 2 players at once. Oh yeah another thing is that particular squad earned 3 orbitals in a ambush with that method. Now how should a full shield tanked squad (for example caldari) deal with this situation? The enemy assaults used scramblers which tear shields apart like nothing, the enemy has more health and higher DPS due to damage mods beeing put in the highslots. If you shot them while they keep peeking out to take damage you actively contribute to their WP generation. Armor damage= WP for the minlogi. So the armor squad has the advantage of: -the much better weapon -much higher damage output -significant higher HP and HP regen due to minlogis repping them -better overall resistance vs most weapons cause there is no +20% rifle vs armor (except the massdriver) -insane WP farming for orbitals Now lets see what the shield tanked squad has: -mobility -higher regen without a logi (when you can manage not to take damage) The advantages of armor outweight the advantages that shields offer by miles. I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1026	Posted - 2015.04.24 22:14:00 - [79] - Quote CalLogi hive bonus is awesome. I could use some cpu and pg. I'd love a sidearm tho. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Imp Smash Molon Labe. 812	Posted - 2015.04.25 00:37:00 - [80] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: Parity with the numbers would make shield tanks superior, since you don't die when you run out of shields. The potential for OPness isn't in the sense of shield tanks vs. armor tanks, but in the sense that when dual-tanked, you no longer have the option of fitting the right weapon to do the job of burning though a sentinel who is either shield OR armor tanked. With a shield rep tool available, I'd plan on carrying both with my logi, and teaming up with another logi and two dual tanked sentinels.* Both logis would run with weapons out, but one switches to a shield rep tool when we make contact. If the contact is a bit heavier, both logies switch to rep tools as needed. With a Cal logi repping shields and a armor repping logi (whether its still the Min or becomes the Gal or Amarr bonus) repping armor, what weapon will the enemy use to punch through the reps? If the enemy is carrying lots of scrambler rifles, the Cal logi switches to his armor rep tool. If the enemy is carrying lots of combat rifles, both logis switch to shield rep tools. The potential for OPness isn't as much about shield vs. armor tanking, as the potential for dual tanking and dual reps. That's potentially much harder to counter than a pair of armor tanked sentinels and a pair of armor repping logis, which can get chewed up pretty easily by mass drivers and rail rifles. Switching to a loadout to counter a shield tanked small sentinel/logi squad is harder than it is for their logis to switch rep tools. Without damage resistance modules on drop suits, I don't see a disadvantage for dual tanking, other than the opportunity cost; unlike the weakness of dual tanking in Eve Online, instead of focusing on a singular tank. Well, there are a few caveats to that. You are correct that running out of armor results in death where as the case is not necessarily so with shields. And you are correct that it would be harder to take advantage of the type of damage a weapon does. However, a situation where a shield rep tool functioned just like an armor reptool would not be so black and white. I would argue the consequences of running out of shield and armor to actually be closer than one may think. At face value you would think that the consequences for running out of armor are way worse -- and in fact I have argued that exact point in other situations. However when referencing repping a tank under fire you have to consider the type of suit. For an Armor stacked Amarr Sent shields really won't matter. Better to just have an armor rep on them as even explosives (which are generally lower DPS than rifles) will out DPS said shield reptool especially as their shield reserve is relatively small. However for a Shield stacked Cal sent -- once the Sent runs out of shield he/she is almost* as dead as if they had run out of armor. As a Cal sent I have survived running out of shield and tanking with the suit's built in armor in a race to kill the other guy before he killed me (when we have no cover to duck behind and regen shield). However instances of that happening are less 5%. 95+% of the time, once my shields drop I usually go down. Add on to that the overall effectiveness of flux grenades being significantly greater than locus. Locus hits super hard and can kill, however flux grenades go through topography and, most importantly, have a ridiculously short fuse. When someone tosses a locus my way, if I see it, I can usually get out of range. Even in my Plate stacked Amarr. But fluxes? Only if you are lucky such that it landed behind you and somewhat near the edge of its range. What this means is that Shields are easy to kill -- and for suits that would rely on shield tanking -- the little armor they have is just a formality the vast majority of the time. So in relation to the above -- you are 100% correct that a suit being repped both armor and shield simultaneously would gain an instant unintended damage resistance to weapon types. However, that is easily avoided making it so that a suit can only be repped Shields OR Armor at any given time. Then shield stacked suits would be shield repped, and armor stacked suits would be armor repped in much the same fashion that they are. Sure a logi may try switching between one and another, and in skirmisher battles it may or may not be effective. However as far as entrenched battles go, the ones where reps become potentially OP, the delay in weapon switch, lock on, and the rep beginning would be significantly less eHP repped as opposed to if the logi had just stuck to one type of rep in the first place. In the case of having 2 logis, taking turns repping, on mic, switching out as needed -- it would be effectively the same amount of eHP through repping as if the two logis had double repped armor the whole time. As such weapon damage type will still come into play virtually as much as it does now as suit's inherent available HP pool in the given type matters. Your points do not address this.

Gyn Wallace Ready to Play 343	Posted - 2015.04.25 02:03:00 - [81] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: That being said I can think of several counters ... However, your point also underscores for me the value of having shield reps be a cloak style active mod rather than a lock on style mod like the armor rep. 0.02 ISK Cross I think those all work, even though they're a little more effective in the current system, where you can expect heavies to be either/or (but mostly armor) tanks instead of dual tanked; but I hadn't been thinking about shield reps in the context of: Imp Smash wrote: However, that is easily avoided making it so that a suit can only be repped Shields OR Armor at any given time. ...] when only one of type of rep is allowed simultaneously. Your 2nd point does not address this. That idea would be huge for mitigating the potential for OPness. Without that, one specific example illustrates the problem with simultaneous shield and armor reps, a plasma cannon being fired at that hypothetical small squad of two heavies and two shield and armor repping logies. The plasma cannon can OHK most suits and take away most of a heavies shields and armor in one hit. Usually that puts the heavy in cover, and he has to be careful about exposing himself to that plasma cannon again, even if his armor is repped to full. He has to wait til his shield regen, if he doesn't want to be exposed to a OHK if the plasma cannon hits him again. With simultaneous remote shield and armor reps, those heavies could take turns eating plasma cannon rounds at a very quick pace. There would be no need to lower the threshold for orbitals...if logis get shield rep warpoints. All Cross's counters work, but they'd work a little bit less well than they already do. I don't hate the idea of shield reps at all; new features are generally good. I don't suppose its a foregone conclusion that shield reps would be OP, but the danger is there. I think we'd have a decent chance of Ratatti balancing them, right after he gets around to buffing logi survivability. :D Soon. The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread
The Dark Cloud The Rainbow Effect 4602	Posted - 2015.04.25 05:58:00 - [82] - Quote I find the absence of a devpost kinda disturbing. I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
Gyn Wallace Ready to Play 343	Posted - 2015.04.25 13:55:00 - [83] - Quote The Dark Cloud wrote: I find the absence of a devpost kinda disturbing. That's probably my fault. I made the mistake of mentioning buffing logi survivability, which keeps devs away better than garlic, crosses, and holy water. The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4545	Posted - 2015.04.25 17:11:00 - [84] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: Cross Atu wrote: That being said I can think of several counters ... However, your point also underscores for me the value of having shield reps be a cloak style active mod rather than a lock on style mod like the armor rep. 0.02 ISK Cross I think those all work, even though they're a little more effective in the current system, where you can expect heavies to be either/or (but mostly armor) tanks instead of dual tanked; but I hadn't been thinking about shield reps in the context of: Certainly, if they were not more effective in the current system it would be indicative of a fundamental flaw in either the current system, the shield rep idea, or both. I don't see 'bite' in over all balance with that however, in part due to the counters listed. In part due to the nature of allocating cooperative play assets (it's much easier to say "then they just switch to armor reps" than it is to actually switch reps and lock mid fire fight in a rapid enough manner to be significant when enough sufficient fire to have stripped shields that were being repped. Just as one example). Also due to the increased utility for Assaults. Broadly speaking Assaults rely on mobility, need mobility, more than Sententials, all of which leads to shields being a proportionally more valuable asset for them. Recently I was in squad with an Amarr Assault who had a single Logi as support, pulling down kills upwards of 30 per match we few deaths and even fewer suit losses, now granted the Assault in question has solid gun game but with the inclusion of shield reps this type of scenario is more likely to occur. Put more simply reps are not just of use to Heavies and shield reps are on average going to be more widely useful than armor currently tend to be. As such comparisons of groups with logi support fighting groups without it aren't fundamental balance they're more a matter of player choice, in the same way as groups fighting with only long or short range weapons suffer in certain contexts against those using the other. Gyn Wallace wrote: Imp Smash wrote: However, that is easily avoided making it so that a suit can only be repped Shields OR Armor at any given time. ...] when only one of type of rep is allowed simultaneously. Your 2nd point does not address this. That idea would be huge for mitigating the potential for OPness. Without that, one specific example illustrates the problem with simultaneous shield and armor reps, a plasma cannon being fired at that hypothetical small squad of two heavies and two shield and armor repping logies. The plasma cannon can OHK most suits and take away most of a heavies shields and armor in one hit. Usually that puts the heavy in cover, and he has to be careful about exposing himself to that plasma cannon again, even if his armor is repped to full. He has to wait til his shield regen, if he doesn't want to be exposed to a OHK if the plasma cannon hits him again. With simultaneous remote shield and armor reps, those heavies could take turns eating plasma cannon rounds at a very quick pace. There would be no need to lower the threshold for orbitals...if logis get shield rep warpoints. All Cross's counters work, but they'd work a little bit less well than they already do. I don't hate the idea of shield reps at all; new features are generally good. I don't suppose its a foregone conclusion that shield reps would be OP, but the danger is there. I think we'd have a decent chance of Ratatti balancing them, right after he gets around to buffing logi survivability. :D Soon. I'm pretty fundamentally opposed to the notion of hard line lockouts such as only one set of reps being applied at a time (or required fitting slots et al). A couple examples include Being able to troll more often (use a MLT tool of one kind on someone with a tank of the opposing kind thus blocking their own squad mates from supporting them). Certain players being locked out from even trying to earn WP/use their equipment because someone else is using similar equipment (what if the presence of a sniper rifle on the field caused the RR to no longer apply damage because the two combined provide a more powerful ranged application of damage than either one alone?) As to the example squad presented above there are a few aspects to consider. 1. You are talking about 1 merc (PLC user) shutting down a squad of 4 in the current context. 2. As outlined the hypothetical does not account for the PLC user wisely targeting the Logi. That is somewhat like targeting the RR user in a CQC situation where there is also a Shotgunner or NK'er present. Of course bad target priority will often result in a poor outcome, as will attempting to engage hostile forces when out numbered 4 to 1. If two heavies using tactical movement while supported by two Logi can forcefully push against the applied fire of a single merc with a PLC (or other LW) that is not at all OP, that is utterly reasonable. What would be OP is if that heavy/logi combo when confronted with equal numbers of opposing forces who are also using effective coordinated action where still able to push/sustain as readily as you describe. But what would happen to one of those heavies of 4 PLC rounds landed on him? Or if two PLC were applying sustained fire to the group while two CQC flanked and ganked the logi (as just one ready example). CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4545	Posted - 2015.04.25 17:15:00 - [85] - Quote The question of WP earnings deserves it's own focus IMO so here goes. If we have a shield transporter that functions identical to the current rep tool then we can simply apply the current earnings logic. So that's simple enough. However we have heard cases made for very different mechanics for how a shield transporter could function, and it begs the question how would WP be assigned in those cases? What would be the earnings mechanism for a transporter that did not actually rep but just turned on the native rep of the suit? (and how would higher tiers of such an equipment mod provide enhanced functionality?) What would be the earnings mechanism for a transporter that used the 'active bubble' method to apply shield reps? Should the WP earnings for both "rep tools" be reworked to one unified method with the addition of shield reps or is having differing mechanics grand different earnings types be the most appropriate option? Thoughts? CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 4610	Posted - 2015.04.25 20:02:00 - [86] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: The question of WP earnings deserves it's own focus IMO so here goes. If we have a shield transporter that functions identical to the current rep tool then we can simply apply the current earnings logic. So that's simple enough. However we have heard cases made for very different mechanics for how a shield transporter could function, and it begs the question how would WP be assigned in those cases? What would be the earnings mechanism for a transporter that did not actually rep but just turned on the native rep of the suit? (and how would higher tiers of such an equipment mod provide enhanced functionality?) What would be the earnings mechanism for a transporter that used the 'active bubble' method to apply shield reps? Should the WP earnings for both "rep tools" be reworked to one unified method with the addition of shield reps or is having differing mechanics grand different earnings types be the most appropriate option? Thoughts? EDIT: "It's weird, he has all these questions and side bars... creepily like he's been thinking about this for awhile." If you want to have a mechanism for shield transporters/rechargers then you could have a mechanism in place where the time while beeing focused on a a suit that has depleted/partially depleted shields would equal to WP gain. So its not the amount of shields you heal but rather the time you are locked onto them. However that concept brings some issues: -if shield transporters only overclock the native shield recharge delay to 0 (assuming the tool itself doesnt provide any shields) then how would the Cal. Logi bonus work out? Range would work but the increased healing rate bonus wouldnt apply (maybe more range then reptools and +1 target locked on per lvl?). Or how about a native shield recharge multiplayer? STD only overclocks native regen +25% of native regen, advanced gives +50% of the native regen (working like a mobile recharger) and proto would add +75% ontop of the native regen. That way Suits with horrendeus native regen would not benefit from having a shield logi. In this scenario only shield tanked suits could really make usage of this due to their ability to enhance their native regen on the fit itself. -If we go down the route of a active equipment (ala cloak field activation) with a area of effect mechanic then the bonuses have to be wastly different then that of the minlogis. Maybe something like +10% area of effect radius and 5% cooldown time per lvl? For the AOE kind of WP earn mechanic you could eventually take the same mechanic as from the resuplly bonus that nanohives have. Treat shields restored like ammo or something similar where you get +25WP for people inside of the bubble that have less then 100% shields. Ya know you aswell only get WP for a team mate who has at least fired 1 round so that the nanohive resupply mechanic can come into action. You have to keep aswell in mind that guardian points should be earnable too. I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 273	Posted - 2015.04.25 20:14:00 - [87] - Quote As a pure Caldari, this is a topic I have thought much about. All my suits are fit to the lack of help for my tank; speed, regen, damage, range. My "brick" fit calass has 200 more armor than shield... (I got tired of getting the shields off a random cal, only to be pasted with him having 500+ armor left) I rarely run it due to the fact that I can't fit a rep-hive, and have had logi blaze past me when I need 400+ armor, but I'm caldari so they didn't even flex. Pulses don't work. Had them on shield tanks of old. They will be garbage, and people won't use them after the release rush. Same for active equipment suggestions. They will be clunky and annoying to use. Shield hives... I'll tell the story of my Pro-callogi, nano V later... Wasted time/money. The tool is the only viable option. Same metric used to prevent nade squeezing, and fall dmg farming. Flat wp rate, 10-15 per lower % hps (due to shield having a lower fittable total) Very low hps, 15-20-40, to combine with suits hps for instant on (same lock time as armor tool) {ask me about my cal-sent with a 107 hps @ 0.6....} ....I can't believe im saying this... Let them spider it.. single beam tools only. That's three guys locked into one action, and popping any one of the three disables them big time. (minsent514?) MOST IMPORTANTLY: Cannot rep 0 shields. Armor tool can't save you from 0. Suit depleted delay will become a major factor to deter dual-beaming. Armor heavies that don't always have a logi with them have fits with maybe one plate, self rep, and sometimes even a kincat. But his logi heavy will be pure plates. The same will go for the shield logi/heavy. Shield core tool? give extender guys an option? Assaults abusing this would be about the same as now. Hard to keep up with an assault with a tool out and ready. It's done, just not often. (shield tooling my calass would be impossible without a good standoff) Start small, way UP, then tweak upwards. My 0.02 isk. "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1030	Posted - 2015.04.25 21:18:00 - [88] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: CalLogi hive bonus is awesome. I could use some cpu and pg. I'd love a sidearm tho. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1030	Posted - 2015.04.25 21:42:00 - [89] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: ... I think we'd have a decent chance of Ratatti balancing them, right after he gets around to buffing logi survivability. :D Soon. And that^ , basically. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 381	Posted - 2015.04.25 21:59:00 - [90] - Quote I have a question for you guys... Why not add sHP and lower delay by x amount? Imho, a shield recharging tool... Isn't going to be as good as a armor repair tool... The lower HP of the suit + lower HP/s from the tool, it's like trying to shoehorn armor style into shields yknow? Why not "harden/boost" sHP by X% and lower delay by Y%? The ADS tourney! Join today!

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4579	Posted - 2015.04.26 02:59:00 - [91] - Quote Devadander wrote: As a pure Caldari, this is a topic I have thought much about. [sic] Pulses don't work. Had them on shield tanks of old. They will be garbage, and people won't use them after the release rush. Same for active equipment suggestions. They will be clunky and annoying to use. [sic] Please elaborate on why you believe this to be true about each one. The more details presented the more issues could be worked around or others persuaded as to why those options should be bypassed in favor of others. Looking forward to hearing back from you on the specifics ~Cross CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
hjkloiuy Duck Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.04.26 03:05:00 - [92] - Quote I agree as long as either armor gets a higher natural rep rate or remove the natural shield reps so it would be like armor is now
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3407	Posted - 2015.04.26 10:30:00 - [93] - Quote Considering that in EVE both Shield Logistics and Armour logistics are both very important and viable roles and both let players tank a similar amount, I feel we are MASSIVELY overdue for a shield repair mechanic. It always feels like there is some sort of resistance to having shield repairs and I have never understood why.... However it may be, I welcome shield repair with open arms. Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? SCV Ready!
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 4624	Posted - 2015.04.26 22:10:00 - [94] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Considering that in EVE both Shield Logistics and Armour logistics are both very important and viable roles and both let players tank a similar amount, I feel we are MASSIVELY overdue for a shield repair mechanic. It always feels like there is some sort of resistance to having shield repairs and I have never understood why.... However it may be, I welcome shield repair with open arms. Because armor tanked players fear that shield suits are not a "lol free kill" anymore. I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 274	Posted - 2015.04.27 23:52:00 - [95] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Devadander wrote: As a pure Caldari, this is a topic I have thought much about. [sic] Pulses don't work. Had them on shield tanks of old. They will be garbage, and people won't use them after the release rush. Same for active equipment suggestions. They will be clunky and annoying to use. [sic] Please elaborate on why you believe this to be true about each one. The more details presented the more issues could be worked around or others persuaded as to why those options should be bypassed in favor of others. Looking forward to hearing back from you on the specifics ~Cross With so much sustained dps from all the full auto everywhere, pulses will simply get anyone brave enough to stand off quite dead. That or to duplicate the standoff power of the rep tool you will need multiple users. Shield users will recognize this quickly and not care if they have a pulser close. (equip, tool, or other) Active equipment (cloak, scanners, and the proposed radius shield restore) is clunky. By clunky I mean one has to ready it, hold it out and do nothing till the time is right, then hope that one activation is timed right. (and the latency gods are kind) Due to the dynamic motion of the battlefield, a lot of those pulses will be wasted, points will be hard to earn, into obscurity it will sink. (armor tool is easy: swap-lock-dance. look at the total healing data o.O) I gave the vehicle shield booster another chance recently, and, um, well... It is kind of crap. The most recent variant gives one good oomph of shields, can be defeated mid oomph by any damage, and has a recharge time that makes it useless in a standoff. So after about 5-7 rounds I removed it. I would rather see a way underpowered shield version of the armor tool, than get some equip that nobody uses after 5-7 rounds. "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Imp Smash Molon Labe. RUST415 819	Posted - 2015.04.28 01:41:00 - [96] - Quote Cross, I'd say those are a bit reaching. Actually, very reaching. If the response to balancing out two unequal methods of survivability is worry about trolling you aren't focusing on the topic at hand. Gyn Wallace has made the first EVER reasonable argument/concern against shield rep tools. The potential for damage resistance. It is, in itself, not 100 percent complete due to the limited repair rate of rep tools in relation to DPS from even 1 gun of pretty much any type. (Much less concentrated fire...) And it is still all just theory...in practice it may provide negligible effective resistance when compared to 2 armor rep tools on the same target. The other reasonable argument against shield rep tools, that no one ever makes but I'll mention now, is that it pulls away from skirmisher style combat that shields are designed for. In which case hand held (not placed) AE recharge rate boosting equipment is called for. However this does not allow Shield suits to tank any better and prevents a group of Shield based players from holding a location (such as an installation) which is pretty much unfair to Caldari loyalists.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1021	Posted - 2015.04.28 03:02:00 - [97] - Quote As long as shield suits are flying through the air, i don't see the point really. I wouldnt carry a shield rep tool anyway because shield suits except the caldari heavy are nowhere near the dirtiest fights, unless they are jumping all over the place. All the crying over amor suits, like there arent plenty of ways to take down one of those as well. Rail Rifles and Combat rifles do as much damage vs Armor, and those ARs dont tickle either. But hey its the Dust forums so i'm getting ahead of myself. Besides, my little shielded ones, you forget how much shields the Amarr and Gallente suits can fit. A adv caldari assault cant fit 500+ shields tanked. An adv Amarr heavy can match that (shields lvl 5 + 2 enhaced extenders = 550 shield) What ever it is you want to add that will make the shield reppers behave like the armor, remember that the armor suits can abuse it too, and still have the massive armor buffer to fall back on. Leaving you back at square one. Would i mind if there was some sort of way to help shield tankers? No of course not. But it has to be done smartly, and a shield rep tool isnt smart. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
The Dark Cloud The Rainbow Effect 4639	Posted - 2015.04.28 04:21:00 - [98] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: As long as shield suits are flying through the air, i don't see the point really. I wouldnt carry a shield rep tool anyway because shield suits except the caldari heavy are nowhere near the dirtiest fights, unless they are jumping all over the place. All the crying over amor suits, like there arent plenty of ways to take down one of those as well. Rail Rifles and Combat rifles do as much damage vs Armor, and those ARs dont tickle either. But hey its the Dust forums so i'm getting ahead of myself. Besides, my little shielded ones, you forget how much shields the Amarr and Gallente suits can fit. A adv caldari assault cant fit 500+ shields tanked. An adv Amarr heavy can match that (shields lvl 5 + 2 enhaced extenders = 550 shield) What ever it is you want to add that will make the shield reppers behave like the armor, remember that the armor suits can abuse it too, and still have the massive armor buffer to fall back on. Leaving you back at square one. Would i mind if there was some sort of way to help shield tankers? No of course not. But it has to be done smartly, and a shield rep tool isnt smart. And i could squeeze 639HP armor on a CK.0 assault. Dont know about you pal but i dont see many bricktankers these days at least no successfull bricktankers. Seriously stating that you could use shield extenders on a armor suit is just as stupid as putting armor plates on a shield suit. If you do that then you should be slapped in the face and branded as moron. Shield= mobility armor= damage If i want that high HP values you might aswell use a heavy with a rail rifle. Ya know cause appearently only HP matters to you. I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
Apocalyptic Destroyer L.O.T.I.S. 446	Posted - 2015.04.28 06:04:00 - [99] - Quote #4Posted: 2014.12.28 03:27 \| Report \| Edited by: Apocalyptic Destroyer The shields don't need a repair tool. That would make them tremendously over powered. Due to the shields being repaired at a constant rate. What the shields need are tools that boosts the shields. Example: It would work exactly like the shield boosters do on vehicles. The tool would administer a boost to the shield but would overheat. The tiers for the overheat were if I remember, 20 sec basic , 15 sec adv , and 5 sec for proto. I did however forget the numbers I had for the initial boost it would give the shields. True Amarr In Disguise Pain is Weakness Leaving the Body. In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.
Fleen Costell'o Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 590	Posted - 2015.04.28 06:38:00 - [100] - Quote The Dark Cloud wrote: Would be nice if we could get a shield recharger tool and a logi that matches that. Maybe change the Caldari Logi bonus from nanohives to something like this: -Caldari Logistic +10% additional range for shield recharger tools and +5% shield regen rate per lvl Shield recharger tool lineup with name, dropsuit shield regen, vehicle shield regen and range (in that order): STD: -Shield recharger tool/ 20HP/50HP/ 10m -Flux shield recharger tool/ same stats as the basic but 15m range ADV: -CLT-2 shield recharger tool/30HP/75HP/15m -CLT-5 axis shield recharger tool/ 22.5HP/100HP/15m -CLT-8 Triage shield recharger tool/ 37.5HP/60HP/15m PRO: -Kaalikiota shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/15m -Ishukone Flux shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/22.5m -Wyrkomi Triage shield recharger tool/44HP/75HP/15.m -Focussed shield recharger tool/62.5HP/ 110HP/7.5m The base regen stats are low cause when pointed at a dropsuit it stacks with their native shield regen. Cause neither do i or the competetive community see a point in having a bonus to nanohives cause we can carry 6 of those allready at ADV lvl. It would make the suit aswell more popular cause if we are honest here all the other logis have something to keep you going while the caldari only has ammo, which every 1 can now carry tons of it to begin with. And add matar logi you creating OP camp. change damage mod. and plates in your caldari fit. to recharge, regulator and energizer BUGS514 Find all. I love ksu123 )

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1040	Posted - 2015.04.28 17:52:00 - [101] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: What ever it is you want to add that will make the shield reppers behave like the armor, remember that the armor suits can abuse it too, and still have the massive armor buffer to fall back on. Leaving you back at square one. Bingo, done and done. Shields got their support equipment. Its the new-fangled shield replenishing needle, for up to 100% HP resurrectability when "hit-and-run" becomes "hit-and-die". Protect that Logi, he may packing the Wyrko just for you. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
The Dark Cloud The Rainbow Effect 4648	Posted - 2015.04.28 18:21:00 - [102] - Quote Fleen Costell'o wrote: And add matar logi you creating OP camp. change damage mod. and plates in your caldari fit. to recharge, regulator and energizer Yeah right while i wait for my shields to recharge the amarr assault closes in with his repslave and 900HP armor and instapops me as soon he turns around the corner. And if you use shield and armor logis on a mainly armor tanked squad you are wasting your time. Logis should focus on either shield or armor. Use both and you are devaluaing the logistic power. I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1040	Posted - 2015.04.28 18:33:00 - [103] - Quote The Dark Cloud wrote: Fleen Costell'o wrote: And add matar logi you creating OP camp. change damage mod. and plates in your caldari fit. to recharge, regulator and energizer Yeah right while i wait for my shields to recharge the amarr assault closes in with his repslave and 900HP armor and instapops me as soon he turns around the corner. And if you use shield and armor logis on a mainly armor tanked squad you are wasting your time. Logis should focus on either shield or armor. Use both and you are devaluaing the logistic power. But pulling the fat hive bonuses off and replacing them with another leash n dance scheme isn't devaluing logistics power. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 389	Posted - 2015.04.28 18:54:00 - [104] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: The question of WP earnings deserves it's own focus IMO so here goes. If we have a shield transporter that functions identical to the current rep tool then we can simply apply the current earnings logic. So that's simple enough. However we have heard cases made for very different mechanics for how a shield transporter could function, and it begs the question how would WP be assigned in those cases? What would be the earnings mechanism for a transporter that did not actually rep but just turned on the native rep of the suit? (and how would higher tiers of such an equipment mod provide enhanced functionality?) What would be the earnings mechanism for a transporter that used the 'active bubble' method to apply shield reps? Should the WP earnings for both "rep tools" be reworked to one unified method with the addition of shield reps or is having differing mechanics grand different earnings types be the most appropriate option? Thoughts? EDIT: "It's weird, he has all these questions and side bars... creepily like he's been thinking about this for awhile." Earning is based on aHP gained per second( guesstimating because lower level reps take longer to get triage points.) If shield tools lowers delay (turning on native sHP/s) then what's the sense? Like... Great a regulator... But if in my honest opinion if it's a regulator, it needs a lil more something something... Like a reg + extend, etc The ADS tourney! Join today!
DDx77 The Exemplars 221	Posted - 2015.04.28 19:07:00 - [105] - Quote Hey cloud what if the Cal Logi just got a bonus on rep tools that strengthens shields? (To be honest not sure how good/effective the current nano bonus is) Something like Rep tool receives + 5% to shield efficiency per level There's also this probably bad idea I had: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2655729#post2655729 May the Dark shine your way
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1040	Posted - 2015.04.28 19:15:00 - [106] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Cross Atu wrote: The question of WP earnings deserves it's own focus IMO so here goes. If we have a shield transporter that functions identical to the current rep tool then we can simply apply the current earnings logic. So that's simple enough. However we have heard cases made for very different mechanics for how a shield transporter could function, and it begs the question how would WP be assigned in those cases? What would be the earnings mechanism for a transporter that did not actually rep but just turned on the native rep of the suit? (and how would higher tiers of such an equipment mod provide enhanced functionality?) What would be the earnings mechanism for a transporter that used the 'active bubble' method to apply shield reps? Should the WP earnings for both "rep tools" be reworked to one unified method with the addition of shield reps or is having differing mechanics grand different earnings types be the most appropriate option? Thoughts? EDIT: "It's weird, he has all these questions and side bars... creepily like he's been thinking about this for awhile." Earning is based on aHP gained per second( guesstimating because lower level reps take longer to get triage points.) If shield tools lowers delay (turning on native sHP/s) then what's the sense? Like... Great a regulator... But if in my honest opinion if it's a regulator, it needs a lil more something something... Like a reg + extend, etc OR maybe those mods should have some slight buffing done and this shieldlogi thing can die already. Shields, yes. Combat Shields (with a melee/throw function), yes. Shield Transporter, maybe depending on stats etc but basically yes. Shield repper and bonuses in lieu of the existing structure? No. No. And, No. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 152	Posted - 2015.04.28 21:10:00 - [107] - Quote what about having it be like a shield booster vs shield repping. like it recharges shield every 2-4 seconds at this rate The Dark Cloud wrote: -Caldari Logistic +10% additional range for shield recharger tools and +5% shield regen rate per lvl Shield recharger tool lineup with name, dropsuit shield regen, vehicle shield regen and range (in that order): STD: -Shield recharger tool/ 20HP/50HP/ 10m -Flux shield recharger tool/ same stats as the basic but 15m range ADV: -CLT-2 shield recharger tool/30HP/75HP/15m -CLT-5 axis shield recharger tool/ 22.5HP/100HP/15m -CLT-8 Triage shield recharger tool/ 37.5HP/60HP/15m PRO: -Kaalikiota shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/15m -Ishukone Flux shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/22.5m -Wyrkomi Triage shield recharger tool/44HP/75HP/15.m -Focussed shield recharger tool/62.5HP/ 110HP/7.5m. using those stats as a maxed level 5 caldari logi? if you think back the logi shield LAVs had a shield rep on it but that was before we had the caldari sentinels. well before we had most suits. lol
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1040	Posted - 2015.04.28 21:25:00 - [108] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: what about having it be like a shield booster vs shield repping. like it recharges shield every 2-4 seconds at this rate The Dark Cloud wrote: -Caldari Logistic +10% additional range for shield recharger tools and +5% shield regen rate per lvl Shield recharger tool lineup with name, dropsuit shield regen, vehicle shield regen and range (in that order): STD: -Shield recharger tool/ 20HP/50HP/ 10m -Flux shield recharger tool/ same stats as the basic but 15m range ADV: -CLT-2 shield recharger tool/30HP/75HP/15m -CLT-5 axis shield recharger tool/ 22.5HP/100HP/15m -CLT-8 Triage shield recharger tool/ 37.5HP/60HP/15m PRO: -Kaalikiota shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/15m -Ishukone Flux shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/22.5m -Wyrkomi Triage shield recharger tool/44HP/75HP/15.m -Focussed shield recharger tool/62.5HP/ 110HP/7.5m. using those stats as a maxed level 5 caldari logi? if you think back the logi shield LAVs had a shield rep on it but that was before we had the caldari sentinels. well before we had most suits. lol Aaaand the Limbus lives on as the best example why, from the "it'll be OP" perspective, shield repping is a bad idea. Theres a reason they were removed, and it wasn't for being UP or ineffective. These ideas are all theorycrafting fun-n-games till they become invincible walls of heavies pushing forward. CalLogi hive bonus is awesome . #ggb4qqing Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1040	Posted - 2015.04.28 21:30:00 - [109] - Quote My bad, did I say invincible walls of heavies pushing forward? I meant heavies pushing forward as myofib assaults/scouts leap in and out of the "shield tool/bubble/eq" with everyone taking little to no damage, and if in the unlikely case the logi is killed or disabled it won't really matter since there will be enough armor on someone to either buy the time for respawns OR needle that logi back up (at 100% both shields and armor, potentially). Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 152	Posted - 2015.04.28 21:32:00 - [110] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: My bad, did I say invincible walls of heavies pushing forward? I meant heavies pushing forward as myofib assaults/scouts leap in and out of the "shield tool/bubble/eq" with everyone taking little to no damage, and if in the unlikely case the logi is killed or disabled it won't really matter since there will be enough armor on someone to either buy the time for respawns OR needle that logi back up (at 100% both shields and armor, potentially). that why I said works like a shield booster on vehicles one rep every 2-5 seconds and cut back the boost rate alittle the Logi LAVs were removed for being murder taxis. lol those were some very tough lavs lol my favorite thing were to put a line of proximity mines on a road and watch as the driver and riders were killed but the lav survived. lol

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1040	Posted - 2015.04.28 21:57:00 - [111] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: My bad, did I say invincible walls of heavies pushing forward? I meant heavies pushing forward as myofib assaults/scouts leap in and out of the "shield tool/bubble/eq" with everyone taking little to no damage, and if in the unlikely case the logi is killed or disabled it won't really matter since there will be enough armor on someone to either buy the time for respawns OR needle that logi back up (at 100% both shields and armor, potentially). that why I said works like a shield booster on vehicles one rep every 2-5 seconds and cut back the boost rate alittle the Logi LAVs were removed for being murder taxis. lol those were some very tough lavs lol my favorite thing were to put a line of proximity mines on a road and watch as the driver and riders were killed but the lav survived. lol If thats why you think the limbus was pulled you never actually saw it being used. Personally Idc whether it's (the shield logi thing ) UP or OP I care that these ideas are always premised on "Remove the Hive bonus for [X]" when the hive bonus is awesome and the Cal is rad with it. Oh, and your CalMando, in your edited post^, yes is optimized for sniper rifles so if his ass is not outside the main battle firing in from cover ,yes, he'll be at a significant disadvantage. Get that fattybutt back into cover silly, your hp is to go point A to point B- from cover to cover. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 152	Posted - 2015.04.28 23:32:00 - [112] - Quote ok then you love the caldari logi bonus even though it don't help with the needle? ok what about no suit gets a bonus to shield rep/booster? fyi I would love to use my caldari commando in more ways than just snipping.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. RUST415 821	Posted - 2015.04.29 00:04:00 - [113] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: a ridiculous number of posts (That much back back to back?!) The bias is dripping like syrup on pancakes. But for everyone else... Ok so Dust is a virtual Chimera of weak asymmetric gameplay elements. (I forget who posted a link to that video discussing it a few months back but it was really good. Kudos!) For that to work things have to be equal even if not the same. Shields are arguably equal in that they are designed to be better than armor at skirmisher style battles (whether they actually ARE better at skirmisher battles or not is debatable --> they didn't get a regen buff when all suits got slot buffs letting armor regen at rates it previously could not when shield regen rate was originally hammered out) -- however, EVEN if shields are the equal of armor in that one area -- the gap between the two is HUGE at CQC. Quite simply shields can't stand up to armor in CQC. Well they shouldn't necessarily have to really. A different design is a different design. However, since the vast majority of all hack points in the objective game modes are indoors -- shield suits are simply not suited for winning matches. That's unfair to them. It ruins immersion. And it hurts FW -- the shield races can't BE loyalist and win! (all other things being equal) A shield rep tool that functions like an armor reptool would still be less effective than an armor reptool because of the lower HP pool available. Shields have less ehp. For the same reason you don't armor reptool a Cal Sent, you would find a shield tool to be less effective on said Cal Sent than an armor tool on an Amarr because the Amarr has a bigger HP pool to tank from. However, that shield rep tool would help shield suits survive a bit better in CQC while still providing armor suits a CQC advantage. So what I want to know is, why people think that would be OP in any way that the armor rep tool is somehow not OP I've heard ONE good response to this ever (in this thread actually) and even then it is still not enough to decide a shield reptool would be unfair. All the people arguing against it appear like they don't want a fun or fair game.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 898	Posted - 2015.04.29 21:04:00 - [114] - Quote People believe it would be OP cause a armor tanked squad cant just roll over a shield tanked squad with this added to the game. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1065	Posted - 2015.05.01 22:55:00 - [115] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: ok then you love the caldari logi bonus even though it don't help with the needle? ok what about no suit gets a bonus to shield rep/booster? fyi I would love to use my caldari commando in more ways than just snipping. I'm unsure what bonus exactly you'd like to see for needles. They've already been buffed to doing shields in equal amounts as armor (up to 100% full hp return AND ressurection after being killed) and any notion of making the shield portion a CalLogi-only buff was squashed immediately since needles are a kind of "everyclone" piece of gear. You can do w/e you want with your CalMando for the most part just with declining success the farther you go from it's primary design focus. Just like every other frame. The dual-light weapon layout giving uou waay more flexibilty than many others, btw. Quick completely not trying to be condecending analogy: I can take my Honda Civic to the hills and do some 4x4ing but its a much different ride with a much different impact on the car than if I take my lifted Ford F150. On the inverse, if I'm in need of doing a long distance freeway drive (SoCal fwys, ftw) my 4x4 F250 can do it BUT its a much different ride with nowhere near the mileage efficiency of the Civic. Same basic principle is what every suit and the overall balance is anchored on. Personally I run the MinMando. For me and how I do what I like to do its got that flexibility after fitting to do well enough under most conditions. When it doesn't or isn't I know I'm in need of a different frame. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1065	Posted - 2015.05.01 23:59:00 - [116] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: a ridiculous number of posts (That much back back to back?!) The bias is dripping like syrup on pancakes. Well, yeah, I can go on a tear especially if addressing multiple points. No bias denial either, hell it's clearly stated above above when I say I do NOT want to lose my hive bonus for another leash duty. But for everyone else... Ok so Dust is a virtual Chimera of weak asymmetric gameplay elements. (I forget who posted a link to that video discussing it a few months back but it was really good. Kudos!) For that to work things have to be equal even if not the same. Shields are arguably equal in that they are designed to be better than armor at skirmisher style battles (whether they actually ARE better at skirmisher battles or not is debatable --> they didn't get a regen buff when all suits got slot buffs letting armor regen at rates it previously could not when shield regen rate was originally hammered out) -- however, EVEN if shields are the equal of armor in that one area -- the gap between the two is HUGE at CQC. Quite simply shields can't stand up to armor in CQC. Well they shouldn't necessarily have to really. A different design is a different design. However, since the vast majority of all hack points in the objective game modes are indoors -- shield suits are simply not suited for winning matches. That's unfair to them. It ruins immersion. And it hurts FW -- the shield races can't BE loyalist and win! (all other things being equal) I disagree, been in CalFW many times and won. We call that the F-Train. Its definitely more a "TW is OP" thing than a "Power of Loyalists" thing. A shield rep tool that functions like an armor reptool would still be less effective than an armor reptool because of the lower HP pool available. Shields have less ehp. For the same reason you don't armor reptool a Cal Sent, you would find a shield tool to be less effective on said Cal Sent than an armor tool on an Amarr because the Amarr has a bigger HP pool to tank from. Pool size isn't going to matter that much tho if theres a sustained regen factor like repping provides, especially in cqc where the closer proximity limits the amount of fire clones are under. I have this problem when running beams on heavies who like to chase kills all the time. They overextend themselves from good positions thinking the corefocused will protect them and they gat totally shredded because from being shot from 2 directions to 7. However, that shield rep tool would help shield suits survive a bit better in CQC while still providing armor suits a CQC advantage. So what I want to know is, why people think that would be OP in any way that the armor rep tool is somehow not OP I've heard ONE good response to this ever (in this thread actually) and even then it is still not enough to decide a shield reptool would be unfair. All the people arguing against it appear like they don't want a fun or fair game. Consider this, again bearing in mind that my problem is the removal of the hive bonus for this idea: There's 2 "layers" of hp, shield and armor. When taking damage, shield goes first, especially when the combatant just stands and "toe-to-toes". After shields are gone repping armor becomes less about having a suit just stand and take fire and more about extending that suits ability to finish its most immediate confrontation ie. 10m targets and then get into cover so full regen, shields and armor can occur. Granted different situations have different outcomes like a logi'd heavy push vs assaults OR logi'd speedtanked MinHeavies vs logi'd bricktank Amarr heavies (<- very much your dps/hp pool contest). Its all relative EXCEPT that the repped layer is the 2nd. And thats where the OP argument gains steam. If the 1st layer becomes suddenly almost permanently sustainable AND the second layer behaves as it does now there very literally are the conditions for near-impervious or insurmountable (OP) fits and combos able to be created. Shield repping becomes something only viably balanced with a complete redraw of armor repping as well. Considering the amount of time, effort, fighting and crying its taken to get the balance we have it's probably just not worth it considering what will happen. Its either "OP" or we lose a good chunk of the work of years to get us here doing it. For a system that may or may not actually provide any more worthwhile gameplay. But could create less. Shield have an advantage in mobility, cqc or open spaces. Granted thats better in the latter. Use it. Shields extenders , I think, were due a buff a while back and idr if that ever happened or not. I remember plates being done but am unsure if extenders got anything. My instinct is no but I'm not positive. If they did then maybe some buffing to rechargers and energizers is in order. Personally, for my CalLogi, I'd much rather have my hive bonus AND better/more efficient regen mods than the same mods and another stick-a-repper-on-it role. btw the Antishield repper channel btw IS totally called, "We Want All the Fun of Being a DragChute for Ourselves" Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
tritan abbattere DBAG CORE 64	Posted - 2015.05.02 00:32:00 - [117] - Quote Elpedo Hughes wrote: Seriously though I don't support it as a armour and shield tanked player with 2 logis with 1 shield and 1 armour rep tool would be OP (hence my NAMELESS post) I would mind a shield booster like on tanks though. if that's the case you need more penalty for dual tanking. Need more modules that give you utility to help you kill an enemy better in lows and highs. we have scan mods but that's not enough. but this is another problem. But I would like a shield rep tool. so +1 on this post. I am the all mighty Tritan. Fear me for I am a MassHole
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 919	Posted - 2015.05.02 18:47:00 - [118] - Quote There is no issue with healing the "first layer" of defense of a dropsuit. Amor tanked suits make usage of damage mods. And you gotta keep in mind that objective type games allways require you to go CQC and thats where the fatal flaw lies with shield suits. Shield tanked heavys cannot receive any support at all when defending/attacking a objective while the amarr sentinel can bricktank with 4 plates, have a damage mod and a logi repping him for over 100HP/s. Same scenario goes aswell for assault suits. Armor has way too many advantages. They can be repped, they have feroscale plates which give more HP then shield extenders, they can fit damage mods without having a drawback on their main tank. What does shield have? Mobility and shield regulators which only lower the shield recharge delay. basically shields are lacking: -firepower -survivability -logi support All 3 are keys to attack a objective. And the fact that there is no rifle which annihilates armor suits like the scrambler does it to shields is aswell a problem. Throwing nanohives and spamming core locus grenades is not to be accounted as logi support. Cause every 1 can do that without the need of a proto cal. logi. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
DJINN Jecture Templar of the Glowing Blade 365	Posted - 2015.05.02 20:47:00 - [119] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: jace silencerww wrote: what about having it be like a shield booster vs shield repping. like it recharges shield every 2-4 seconds at this rate The Dark Cloud wrote: -Caldari Logistic +10% additional range for shield recharger tools and +5% shield regen rate per lvl Shield recharger tool lineup with name, dropsuit shield regen, vehicle shield regen and range (in that order): STD: -Shield recharger tool/ 20HP/50HP/ 10m -Flux shield recharger tool/ same stats as the basic but 15m range ADV: -CLT-2 shield recharger tool/30HP/75HP/15m -CLT-5 axis shield recharger tool/ 22.5HP/100HP/15m -CLT-8 Triage shield recharger tool/ 37.5HP/60HP/15m PRO: -Kaalikiota shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/15m -Ishukone Flux shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/22.5m -Wyrkomi Triage shield recharger tool/44HP/75HP/15.m -Focussed shield recharger tool/62.5HP/ 110HP/7.5m. using those stats as a maxed level 5 caldari logi? if you think back the logi shield LAVs had a shield rep on it but that was before we had the caldari sentinels. well before we had most suits. lol Aaaand the Limbus lives on as the best example why, from the "it'll be OP" perspective, shield repping is a bad idea. Theres a reason they were removed, and it wasn't for being UP or ineffective. These ideas are all theorycrafting fun-n-games till they become invincible walls of heavies pushing forward. CalLogi hive bonus is awesome . #ggb4qqing They were removed because it was all on the same rep tool, you would give shield and armor at the same time making the merc invincible. *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1067	Posted - 2015.05.02 21:23:00 - [120] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: jace silencerww wrote: what about having it be like a shield booster vs shield repping. like it recharges shield every 2-4 seconds at this rate The Dark Cloud wrote: -Caldari Logistic +10% additional range for shield recharger tools and +5% shield regen rate per lvl Shield recharger tool lineup with name, dropsuit shield regen, vehicle shield regen and range (in that order): STD: -Shield recharger tool/ 20HP/50HP/ 10m -Flux shield recharger tool/ same stats as the basic but 15m range ADV: -CLT-2 shield recharger tool/30HP/75HP/15m -CLT-5 axis shield recharger tool/ 22.5HP/100HP/15m -CLT-8 Triage shield recharger tool/ 37.5HP/60HP/15m PRO: -Kaalikiota shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/15m -Ishukone Flux shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/22.5m -Wyrkomi Triage shield recharger tool/44HP/75HP/15.m -Focussed shield recharger tool/62.5HP/ 110HP/7.5m. using those stats as a maxed level 5 caldari logi? if you think back the logi shield LAVs had a shield rep on it but that was before we had the caldari sentinels. well before we had most suits. lol Aaaand the Limbus lives on as the best example why, from the "it'll be OP" perspective, shield repping is a bad idea. Theres a reason they were removed, and it wasn't for being UP or ineffective. These ideas are all theorycrafting fun-n-games till they become invincible walls of heavies pushing forward. CalLogi hive bonus is awesome . #ggb4qqing They were removed because it was all on the same rep tool, you would give shield and armor at the same time making the merc invincible. Which even with the eq cycling delays is what would be reintroduced. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1067	Posted - 2015.05.02 21:27:00 - [121] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: There is no issue with healing the "first layer" of defense of a dropsuit. Amor tanked suits make usage of damage mods. And you gotta keep in mind that objective type games allways require you to go CQC and thats where the fatal flaw lies with shield suits. Shield tanked heavys cannot receive any support at all when defending/attacking a objective while the amarr sentinel can bricktank with 4 plates, have a damage mod and a logi repping him for over 100HP/s. Same scenario goes aswell for assault suits. Armor has way too many advantages. They can be repped, they have feroscale plates which give more HP then shield extenders, they can fit damage mods without having a drawback on their main tank. What does shield have? Mobility and shield regulators which only lower the shield recharge delay. basically shields are lacking: -firepower -survivability -logi support All 3 are keys to attack a objective. And the fact that there is no rifle which annihilates armor suits like the scrambler does it to shields is aswell a problem. Throwing nanohives and spamming core locus grenades is not to be accounted as logi support. Cause every 1 can do that without the need of a proto cal. logi. Till those nades are gone...and the reality of the CalLogis superhives becomes obvious to the oblivious. Best logic I've ever had made for me justifying adding sidearms to CalLogis, btw. Logistics shield suit support= firepower use, so the Cal gets a sidearm in addition to their light. I like it. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 919	Posted - 2015.05.02 21:58:00 - [122] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: They were removed because it was all on the same rep tool, you would give shield and armor at the same time making the merc invincible. Get your facts stright: -Limbus= galente LAV= remote armor reps -Charybdis= Caldari LAV= remote shield transporter The usage of the inbuild modules was extremely clunky and not comparable with repair tools. And the only reason why they seemed "OP" was that their healing values where like 200~300HP/s which was way beyond the healing capacity of the logis that we have today. Im gonna try to describe how clunky and scrubby the Logi LAV remote modules where: -you got a swarm launcher lock on mechanic which only worked on infantry -once you achieved the lock on you have to tap R1 once to get the remote module working -if you break line of sight to the infantry player then your module activation was basically wasted cause you couldnt get a new lock on before the module went trough its module cooldown timer. Logi LAVs where mostly not used for their logistic capability but rather to run people over and the fact that they had like 50% damage resistance which made them extremely hard to kill due to their high mobility and extreme high tanking was aswell a thing. However for pure vehicle play to support a tank it was awesome. Well except if the tank driver is a muppet and reverses into your LAV which caused insta death. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1067	Posted - 2015.05.02 22:28:00 - [123] - Quote But when they were it would become a gang of indestructible heavies surrounding the LAV walking one end of the map to the other. Freakin' awesome. And OP as ****. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 922	Posted - 2015.05.03 06:17:00 - [124] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: But when they were it would become a gang of indestructible heavies surrounding the LAV walking one end of the map to the other. Freakin' awesome. And OP as ****. Which like never happend cause heavys where crap back then. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 1175	Posted - 2015.05.03 19:02:00 - [125] - Quote I remember when vehicles had these. I'd try to hover over a tank and charge it's shields. It was a pain to aim and didn't work very well, but a cool concept I'd like to see return. As for a handheld, I'd like to see that too, but I'd want it to function differently than the rep tool. Maybe it charges in periodic bursts, or simply immediately starts the shield recharge process immediately Who cares what some sniper has to say. **--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust/Legion on both current Gen consoles-
Imp Smash Molon Labe. RUST415 824	Posted - 2015.05.04 05:58:00 - [126] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Some more reasonable stuff plus Consider this, again bearing in mind that my problem is the removal of the hive bonus for this idea: There's 2 "layers" of hp, shield and armor. When taking damage, shield goes first, especially when the combatant just stands and "toe-to-toes". After shields are gone repping armor becomes less about having a suit just stand and take fire and more about extending that suits ability to finish its most immediate confrontation ie. 10m targets and then get into cover so full regen, shields and armor can occur. Granted different situations have different outcomes like a logi'd heavy push vs assaults OR logi'd speedtanked MinHeavies vs logi'd bricktank Amarr heavies (<- very much your dps/hp pool contest). Its all relative EXCEPT that the repped layer is the 2nd. And thats where the OP argument gains steam. If the 1st layer becomes suddenly almost permanently sustainable AND the second layer behaves as it does now there very literally are the conditions for near-impervious or insurmountable (OP) fits and combos able to be created. Shield repping becomes something only viably balanced with a complete redraw of armor repping as well. Considering the amount of time, effort, fighting and crying its taken to get the balance we have it's probably just not worth it considering what will happen. Its either "OP" or we lose a good chunk of the work of years to get us here doing it. For a system that may or may not actually provide any more worthwhile gameplay. But could create less. Shield have an advantage in mobility, cqc or open spaces. Granted thats better in the latter. Use it. Shields extenders , I think, were due a buff a while back and idr if that ever happened or not. I remember plates being done but am unsure if extenders got anything. My instinct is no but I'm not positive. If they did then maybe some buffing to rechargers and energizers is in order. Personally, for my CalLogi, I'd much rather have my hive bonus AND better/more efficient regen mods than the same mods and another stick-a-repper-on-it role. btw the Antishield repper channel btw IS totally called, "We Want All the Fun of Being a DragChute for Ourselves" Keep in mind though, the first layer of HP cant become sustainable. Its just not possible. Even with the best rep stream in the game your weapons do 4x the damage approximately. Even if the shield repper was on par with the armor repper you are still going to be out of shields like you would be out of armor. Only you don&t have a large armor buffer so you go down a second or two after. Practically speaking nothing would change except shield tanked assaults, heavies, or commandos would be viable rep targets whereas now, they are significantly less so. As far as history of shields vs armor goes -- shield extenders were nerfed. They got a shield regen delay penaly added when armor got the buffed because back then shields were 10x better than armor. And it was too much of a swing. Also, a lot of suits that exist now didnt exist then, and this is before assault suits got the slot buffs. Basically, it was a 3 solid rounds of buffs towards armor, and a nerf to shields, and thats why the balance is bad. I never said you had to lose your hive bonus. I have no opinion on that as I am not an equipment toting Cal. My only Cal suit is the Sent. I am an Amarr. I am a hardcore armor tanker. So while I can' talk about y'alls bonuses I CAN talk about the difference between Armor and Shields in CQC. Honestly without changing anything, we could just have more open points (level design folks!) and that right there would be a solid indirect buff to shields. Regardless, it is silly to say a rep tool for shields is magically different than a rep tool for armor. It isn't, and in case you didn't notice, rep tools are a tad powerful in general.
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 163	Posted - 2015.05.05 23:44:00 - [127] - Quote what about having it be like a shield booster, not shield repping. plus it does NOT start the auto shield recharge, the shield delay is still there, no logi getting a bonus to it and like it recharges shield every 2-4 seconds at this rate or half of this rate. The Dark Cloud wrote: Shield booster tool lineup with name, dropsuit shield regen, vehicle shield regen and range (in that order): STD: -Shield recharger tool/ 20HP/50HP/ 10m -Flux shield recharger tool/ same stats as the basic but 15m range ADV: -CLT-2 shield recharger tool/30HP/75HP/15m -CLT-5 axis shield recharger tool/ 22.5HP/100HP/15m -CLT-8 Triage shield recharger tool/ 37.5HP/60HP/15m PRO: -Kaalikiota shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/15m -Ishukone Flux shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/22.5m -Wyrkomi Triage shield recharger tool/44HP/75HP/15.m -Focussed shield recharger tool/62.5HP/ 110HP/7.5m remember armor reps has both natural rep and a rep tool plus can regen while taking damage and can far out stack shields ehp, it is true shield do give to no speed penalty though ferroscales plates do the same plus more ehp as well ( including max skills, complex shield ext 72 vs complex ferro plate 75). this sounds fair. I am curious why active and ferro plates don't get the 10% armor bonus from the skill?
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 2084	Posted - 2015.05.06 10:20:00 - [128] - Quote What about a shield recharger that had a cool down and would act like an old vehicle shield booster, a small injection of shields and kick starts the recharging of shields if broken or delayed. Master Skyshark rider Kaalaka dakka tamer
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 163	Posted - 2015.05.06 14:02:00 - [129] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: What about a shield recharger that had a cool down and would act like an old vehicle shield booster, a small injection of shields and kick starts the recharging of shields if broken or delayed. then like vehicles are now, shield regulators would be no point in using them on dropsuits. even with a long cool down timer most would use 2 on a caldari assault or logi if they were a high slot. I mean just using a cald assault with 3 complex shields and 2 boosters with some armor for alittle help when boosters are down. would be OP and no point of having the shield rep tool. though it is kinda like the way the idea of my shield booster/rep tool. however it will not auto start shields regen. I think 30 shield every 2-4 seconds would be fair close to the way shields slighty above avg regen now.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 960	Posted - 2015.05.06 15:02:00 - [130] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: What about a shield recharger that had a cool down and would act like an old vehicle shield booster, a small injection of shields and kick starts the recharging of shields if broken or delayed. No it should be a equipment that the cal. logi gets a bonus for. Not some nonesense thing that is more of a gimmick and useless for teamplay. Thats why the OP made the stats he posted cause it works allmost identical like a reptool but instead for shields. Its a concept that has proven to work under allmost all circumstances. Get the latch onto a friendly and hold the button down to rep him. Simplistic but efficent, we do not want some over complicated stuff. It should be easy to use and beneficial for the team. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!

jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 163	Posted - 2015.05.06 17:22:00 - [131] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: What about a shield recharger that had a cool down and would act like an old vehicle shield booster, a small injection of shields and kick starts the recharging of shields if broken or delayed. No it should be a equipment that the cal. logi gets a bonus for. Not some nonesense thing that is more of a gimmick and useless for teamplay. Thats why the OP made the stats he posted cause it works allmost identical like a reptool but instead for shields. Its a concept that has proven to work under allmost all circumstances. Get the latch onto a friendly and hold the button down to rep him. Simplistic but efficent, we do not want some over complicated stuff. It should be easy to use and beneficial for the team. ok so what kind of equipment? a nanohives, a shield rep tool, or what? remember it needs to be a model in the game already. well that is what CCP Rattati said a while back. however I do agree the first post stats on shield rep tool was too high, that is why I said HALF of that rate, only every 2-4 seconds (though it could be 1-2 seconds if lower than half) and plus it will NOT start the shield auto regen, so the delay penalty is still there.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 960	Posted - 2015.05.06 18:29:00 - [132] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: What about a shield recharger that had a cool down and would act like an old vehicle shield booster, a small injection of shields and kick starts the recharging of shields if broken or delayed. No it should be a equipment that the cal. logi gets a bonus for. Not some nonesense thing that is more of a gimmick and useless for teamplay. Thats why the OP made the stats he posted cause it works allmost identical like a reptool but instead for shields. Its a concept that has proven to work under allmost all circumstances. Get the latch onto a friendly and hold the button down to rep him. Simplistic but efficent, we do not want some over complicated stuff. It should be easy to use and beneficial for the team. ok so what kind of equipment? a nanohives, a shield rep tool, or what? remember it needs to be a model in the game already. well that is what CCP Rattati said a while back. however I do agree the first post stats on shield rep tool was too high, that is why I said HALF of that rate, only every 2-4 seconds (though it could be 1-2 seconds if lower than half) and plus it will NOT start the shield auto regen, so the delay penalty is still there. How are the values too high? They are allready half of that what the regular reptools are capable off. The stats for dropsuit shield regen for the prototype variant is only 35HP/s+native shield recharge on the suit itself. The second value is when you aim that thing at a VEHCILE. Im gonna explain it cause dumb dumbs like you dont get it: -Ishukone Flux shield recharger tool dropsuit shield recharge= 35HP/s VEHICLE shield recharge= 90HP/s range= 22.5m I just assume for example i would point that thing onto a caldari assault and he has a recharger fitted which gives him 45HP/s native regen. I point my shield recharger tool on him and he gets constant +35HP/s which aswell overclock the native regen so both values combined are 80HP/s. Just as a reference a lai dai flux reptool has a rep of 75hp/s and thats without the native armor reps added. So please elaborate now Mr. Dumb dumb how this would be in any way OP when the armor tanked guy has more HP, more damage output and more HP regen with a reptool sticked onto him. And about the asset question: Just use the reptool model and give it a blue beam instead of the yellow one. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 1211	Posted - 2015.05.06 19:00:00 - [133] - Quote Could I get a witness!? Who cares what some sniper has to say. **--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust/Legion on both current Gen consoles-
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1084	Posted - 2015.05.06 20:28:00 - [134] - Quote Well, now that it seems like we're done trying to screw my CalLogi out of my bonus, yeah, sure add a shield "device". More toys for me. My personal preference would be an AoE regen booster based on a hive. CalLogi existing bonus could apply, all frames could carry it and in deep combat its use isn't predicated on the loss of a gunman. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1084	Posted - 2015.05.06 20:39:00 - [135] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Honestly without changing anything, we could just have more open points (level design folks!) and that right there would be a solid indirect buff to shields. Regardless, it is silly to say a rep tool for shields is magically different than a rep tool for armor. It isn't, and in case you didn't notice, rep tools are a tad powerful in general. I'm not saying it'd be drastically different, I'm saying the argument it'd be OP stems from the reality that it'd be used identically to armor reppers ( "tad powerful") and in conjunction with them which would create some serious OP circumstances. Especially in CQ where the immediate wipe of entrenched defenders' shields is critical to actually breaching an area and clearing it. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 961	Posted - 2015.05.06 23:20:00 - [136] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Well, now that it seems like we're done trying to screw my CalLogi out of my bonus, yeah, sure add a shield "device". More toys for me. My personal preference would be an AoE regen booster based on a hive. CalLogi existing bonus could apply, all frames could carry it and in deep combat its use isn't predicated on the loss of a gunman. Using a deployable equipment is bad for defending and pushing objectives. 1 flux/core locus and your fancy equipment gets destroyed. Thats why nobody with half a braincell is using the caldari logi with rephives. If i want to rep somebody i would use a repair tool which can be used indefenetly. The thing that nanohives are good for is ammo and everybody can allready carry 6 X-3 quantum nanohives so the existing Cal. Logi bonus is 100% useless. I dont need the help of a cal. logi to spam core locus nades 24/7 and thats why nobody uses it. So stop trying to pretend as if the hive bonus has any meaningfull role. The only purpose of that suit is to put 5 myofibres on and spam drop uplinks on highgrounds. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Imp Smash Molon Labe. RUST415 826	Posted - 2015.05.06 23:23:00 - [137] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Honestly without changing anything, we could just have more open points (level design folks!) and that right there would be a solid indirect buff to shields. Regardless, it is silly to say a rep tool for shields is magically different than a rep tool for armor. It isn't, and in case you didn't notice, rep tools are a tad powerful in general. I'm not saying it'd be drastically different, I'm saying the argument it'd be OP stems from the reality that it'd be used identically to armor reppers ( "tad powerful") and in conjunction with them which would create some serious OP circumstances. Especially in CQ where the immediate wipe of entrenched defenders' shields is critical to actually breaching an area and clearing it. I'm sorry but, I don't understand your reasoning. How is 1 shield and 1 armor repper more powerful than 2 armor reppers? Assuming the rep amount is the same -- wouldn't the suit be getting the same amount of hp back in either circumstance?
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 1213	Posted - 2015.05.06 23:41:00 - [138] - Quote I'd like to see something more original than just a blue rep tool. I would like it to have some sort of functional difference Who cares what some sniper has to say. **--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust/Legion on both current Gen consoles-
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 961	Posted - 2015.05.07 10:45:00 - [139] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: I'd like to see something more original than just a blue rep tool. I would like it to have some sort of functional difference Well the beam is blue and heals shields instead of armor. Thats the difference of how the whole concept is supposed to work. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 281	Posted - 2015.05.10 18:02:00 - [140] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Well, now that it seems like we're done trying to screw my CalLogi out of my bonus, yeah, sure add a shield "device". More toys for me. My personal preference would be an AoE regen booster based on a hive. CalLogi existing bonus could apply, all frames could carry it and in deep combat its use isn't predicated on the loss of a gunman. Using a deployable equipment is bad for defending and pushing objectives. 1 flux/core locus and your fancy equipment gets destroyed. Thats why nobody with half a braincell is using the caldari logi with rephives. If i want to rep somebody i would use a repair tool which can be used indefenetly. The thing that nanohives are good for is ammo and everybody can allready carry 6 X-3 quantum nanohives so the existing Cal. Logi bonus is 100% useless. I dont need the help of a cal. logi to spam core locus nades 24/7 and thats why nobody uses it. So stop trying to pretend as if the hive bonus has any meaningfull role. The only purpose of that suit is to put 5 myofibres on and spam drop uplinks on highgrounds. Which we can no longer do "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~

Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 973	Posted - 2015.05.10 18:13:00 - [141] - Quote Devadander wrote: Which we can no longer do Thats why i didnt specced into Cal.Logis cause of the obvious nerf hammer that was about to hit them. So again the Cal.Logi has no purpose. It even got worse since every 1 and their mother can carry 6 compact hives. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 281	Posted - 2015.05.10 18:23:00 - [142] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: Devadander wrote: Which we can no longer do Thats why i didnt specced into Cal.Logis cause of the obvious nerf hammer that was about to hit them. So again the Cal.Logi has no purpose. It even got worse since every 1 and their mother can carry 6 compact hives. I have had all my cal roles for a long time, but still; this ^ "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
DJINN Jecture Templar of the Glowing Blade 366	Posted - 2015.05.11 13:02:00 - [143] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: Devadander wrote: Which we can no longer do Thats why i didnt specced into Cal.Logis cause of the obvious nerf hammer that was about to hit them. So again the Cal.Logi has no purpose. It even got worse since every 1 and their mother can carry 6 compact hives. OMG I feel so sorry for you guys, I thought it was bad when everyone was able to carry around an injector but yeah I can see your point. In all reality though nanohive deployment ability hasn't gone up just the number of hives people can carry. Can we get a doctor...I mean a shield repper? Wait that sounds more like a nurse applying band-aids. *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 19:17:00 - [144] - Quote Bump due to the new sticky logi discussion. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.04 15:44:00 - [145] - Quote Just played dom as a amarr sentinel (dominus with 100% free fit) on the gal. research facility. had 3 random logis repping me while i went 32/2 and got ranked 4th, the 3 logis got over 4000 WP each. Yeah right how are shield suits supposed to deal with this? And yes i even survived beeing core locus spammed so thats not the solution to it. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.06.05 02:34:00 - [146] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: Just played dom as a amarr sentinel (dominus with 100% free fit) on the gal. research facility. had 3 random logis repping me while i went 32/2 and got ranked 4th, the 3 logis got over 4000 WP each. Yeah right how are shield suits supposed to deal with this? And yes i even survived beeing core locus spammed so thats not the solution to it. That's always the funny thing for me about that argument. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.05 14:33:00 - [147] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: That's always the funny thing for me about that argument. Its not just that this setup is much harder to push off a point but even if you manage to push me off the point, kill the logis and hack the objective you could had beeing hit instantly by a laser strike as soon their squadleader respawned. Because the logis allready earned tons of WP to fuel the "get of my porch" strike. The only way how to deal with this is to get yourself brick tanked heavys with logis behind him. Countering a setup with the exact same setup is not good or a healthy thing for a sandbox. Imagine if you could only destroy a tank with a other tank and AV would just simply not exist. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.27 12:43:00 - [148] - Quote Bump cause of imbalance between armor+shields. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
el OPERATOR Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.06.27 22:07:00 - [149] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: Just played dom as a amarr sentinel (dominus with 100% free fit) on the gal. research facility. had 3 random logis repping me while i went 32/2 and got ranked 4th, the 3 logis got over 4000 WP each. Yeah right how are shield suits supposed to deal with this? And yes i even survived beeing core locus spammed so thats not the solution to it. Bump for nerf to spidering. Open-Beta Vet. CAPCRO Nomad. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
WyrmHero1945 Finesse Soldiers 575	Posted - 2015.08.24 18:13:00 - [150] - Quote How about instead of a rep tool we have a shield generator. Pretty much like a nanohive you drop to the ground and it repair shields instead of armor. It isn't so OP because you need to back to the field of barrier instead of a constant shield repair by a logi. So it's kinda situational. Its nanite clusters should be limited and its repair rate not so high. Probably could work better (not OP) by just reducing shield delay time.



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