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The dark cloud
Negative-Feedback.
4147
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Posted - 2015.03.18 14:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Would be nice if we could get a shield recharger tool and a logi that matches that. Maybe change the Caldari Logi bonus from nanohives to something like this:
-Caldari Logistic +10% additional range for shield recharger tools and +5% shield regen rate per lvl
Shield recharger tool lineup with name, dropsuit shield regen, vehicle shield regen and range (in that order):
STD: -Shield recharger tool/ 20HP/50HP/ 10m -Flux shield recharger tool/ same stats as the basic but 15m range
ADV: -CLT-2 shield recharger tool/30HP/75HP/15m -CLT-5 axis shield recharger tool/ 22.5HP/100HP/15m -CLT-8 Triage shield recharger tool/ 37.5HP/60HP/15m
PRO: -Kaalikiota shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/15m -Ishukone Flux shield recharger tool/35HP/90HP/22.5m -Wyrkomi Triage shield recharger tool/44HP/75HP/15.m -Focussed shield recharger tool/62.5HP/ 110HP/7.5m
The base regen stats are low cause when pointed at a dropsuit it stacks with their native shield regen. Cause neither do i or the competetive community see a point in having a bonus to nanohives cause we can carry 6 of those allready at ADV lvl. It would make the suit aswell more popular cause if we are honest here all the other logis have something to keep you going while the caldari only has ammo, which every 1 can now carry tons of it to begin with.
They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of:
"GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
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shaman oga
Dead Man's Game
4175
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Posted - 2015.03.18 14:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
It would be OP. Imagine a cal sent, with 80 or even more shield recharge and no delays.
Pimp my Barge
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The dark cloud
Negative-Feedback.
4147
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Posted - 2015.03.18 15:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:It would be OP. Imagine a cal sent, with 80 or even more shield recharge and no delays. Yeah but the cal sentinel has much less HP cause you need at least 2 energizers to achieve that. A amarr sentinel has 1344HP on armor and with the help of a minlogi with a lai dai flux reptool a armor regen rate of 87,5HP. The cal sentinel with a setup that you posted would have 707HP and a total shield regen of max 123HP/s. So the calsentinel has 48% less main tank HP but 40% better regen. I think thats a fair tradeoff.
They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of:
"GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
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Elpedo Hughes
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2015.03.18 18:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
If this becomes true NAMELESS would be UNSTOPABLE! |
Elpedo Hughes
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2015.03.18 18:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Seriously though I don't support it as a armour and shield tanked player with 2 logis with 1 shield and 1 armour rep tool would be OP (hence my NAMELESS post)
I would mind a shield booster like on tanks though. |
Finn Colman
Immortal Guides Learning Alliance
154
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Posted - 2015.03.18 23:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rattati has mentioned the need for some sort of shield support equipment, and the intention to work on it.
Jack-of-most-trades, master of one.
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
415
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Posted - 2015.03.18 23:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Will never happen, no shield buffs allowed, only nerfs.
If you ask for an increase to armor reps you are garanteed to see them next patch. |
The dark cloud
Negative-Feedback.
4154
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Posted - 2015.03.19 07:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Elpedo Hughes wrote:Seriously though I don't support it as a armour and shield tanked player with 2 logis with 1 shield and 1 armour rep tool would be OP (hence my NAMELESS post)
I would mind a shield booster like on tanks though. Ya know that the basic shield regen on armor suits are extremely bad? It would still make more sense to stick a 2nd reptool on him so his uber buffed armor tank regens quicker.
They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of:
"GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7661
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Posted - 2015.03.19 07:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:It would be OP. Imagine a cal sent, with 80 or even more shield recharge and no delays. There isn't a single anti shield weapon that cannot casually annihilate this advantage even with the laser and plasma resists.
And quite bluntly a shield transporter that simply jumpstarts the regen and adds 15-25 shield regen per second would be on par with the 125 HP/sec core armor repairer used by logis.
It doesn't require much to matter, but it needs to matter.
AV
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The dark cloud
Negative-Feedback.
4154
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Posted - 2015.03.19 08:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:shaman oga wrote:It would be OP. Imagine a cal sent, with 80 or even more shield recharge and no delays. There isn't a single anti shield weapon that cannot casually annihilate this advantage even with the laser and plasma resists. And quite bluntly a shield transporter that simply jumpstarts the regen and adds 15-25 shield regen per second would be on par with the 125 HP/sec core armor repairer used by logis. It doesn't require much to matter, but it needs to matter. The thing is lasers and blaster weapons rip trough shields like nothing and if you are not armor tanked its basically game over. On medium-long range you should have the option to get supported by a logi. And i certainly have seen enough armor tanked suits with rail rifles and scramblers who are getting repped by logis. Then there is the case of flux nades which wipes all of your shields when beeing hit and thats even the case when it was a militia.
Then we have the trench war ambush meta where 2 sides collide with each other but nobody moves. Armor tanked suits have the advantage cause they generate more WP and in the end just can OB the enemys to win the match.
Another thing is why beeing upset about high regen on shield suits? you have to sacrifice HP to have that kind of regen but the fact that passive armor reps+armor repair tools stack aswell is beeing ignored. In fact lets see how much armor rep a amarr sentinel can get:
AK.0 sentinel with 4 passive reppers: 39 HP/s and has 750HP armor with lvl5 skills
Minmatarr logistic with a lai dai flux repair tool: 87,5 HP/s
both combined: 126HP/s
So tell me now again why a shield recharger tool would be OP? The amarr sentinel has more armor HP without any plates then a cal. sentinel has shields with 2 extenders and 2 energizers. The truth is the amarr sentinel would beat the regen rate of the cal. sentinel by 1HP/s. Point is invalid for those fearing of "++ber repping heavys" cause that one certainly is allready here.
They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of:
"GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
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Georgia Xavier
Y.A.M.A.H
97
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Posted - 2015.03.19 14:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
This would need to be implemented IF a heavy laser weapon comes out.
Highly unlikely but one can hope
How many amarr does it take to change a light bulb? none. The minmatar do it for them
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7668
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Posted - 2015.03.19 14:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:shaman oga wrote:It would be OP. Imagine a cal sent, with 80 or even more shield recharge and no delays. There isn't a single anti shield weapon that cannot casually annihilate this advantage even with the laser and plasma resists. And quite bluntly a shield transporter that simply jumpstarts the regen and adds 15-25 shield regen per second would be on par with the 125 HP/sec core armor repairer used by logis. It doesn't require much to matter, but it needs to matter. The thing is lasers and blaster weapons rip trough shields like nothing and if you are not armor tanked its basically game over. On medium-long range you should have the option to get supported by a logi. And i certainly have seen enough armor tanked suits with rail rifles and scramblers who are getting repped by logis. Then there is the case of flux nades which wipes all of your shields when beeing hit and thats even the case when it was a militia. Then we have the trench war ambush meta where 2 sides collide with each other but nobody moves. Armor tanked suits have the advantage cause they generate more WP and in the end just can OB the enemys to win the match. Another thing is why beeing upset about high regen on shield suits? you have to sacrifice HP to have that kind of regen but the fact that passive armor reps+armor repair tools stack aswell is beeing ignored. In fact lets see how much armor rep a amarr sentinel can get: AK.0 sentinel with 4 passive reppers: 39 HP/s and has 750HP armor with lvl5 skills Minmatarr logistic with a lai dai flux repair tool: 87,5 HP/s both combined: 126HP/s So tell me now again why a shield recharger tool would be OP? The amarr sentinel has more armor HP without any plates then a cal. sentinel has shields with 2 extenders and 2 energizers. The truth is the amarr sentinel would beat the regen rate of the cal. sentinel by 1HP/s. Point is invalid for those fearing of "++ber repping heavys" cause that one certainly is allready here.
This post, while a bit frenetic, accurately lays out the correct argument.
He fails to mention that a 4-rep amsent actually recovers closer to 164 HP/sec with a core rep tool.
Realistically in most situations, dual plate and two reps are the better fit, so only 146/second versus the calsent's "overpowering" 80 HP/Sec.
Did I mention that in order to get 80/sec you sacrifice 12% of your shield HP off the top?
Stacking penalties don't apply to module penalties so two energizers (6% each) shave off slightly more than a tenth of your HP.
So... how is this idea OP?
Please, use math or logic as to why jump starting regen and adding 15-20 HP regen on top would be OP.
I'm all ears. And I will be ready to tear your logic to ribbons.
AV
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The dark cloud
Negative-Feedback.
4156
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Posted - 2015.03.19 18:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
The main gripe that people have with this idea is that it would take a armor exclusive feature away from them. Thats the only reason why they are against it. But hey lets keep a heavy with allmost 1400HP armor and stick a reptool on him. Not OP at all while a cal. sentinel has like 40% less shield HP then the amarr has armor.
This proposal would make the Cal. logi actually worthwhile using. Cause ya know any random guy with a advanced nanohive could now resupply his whole team.
They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of:
"GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
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Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
524
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Posted - 2015.03.19 19:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Elpedo Hughes wrote:Seriously though I don't support it as a armour and shield tanked player with 2 logis with 1 shield and 1 armour rep tool would be OP (hence my NAMELESS post)
I would mind a shield booster like on tanks though.
Thats a pretty good concern to bring up. Do armor repair tools stack? I forget.
I think they do, maybe they shouldnt, for the same reason you bring up. |
The dark cloud
Negative-Feedback.
4157
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Posted - 2015.03.19 19:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Elpedo Hughes wrote:Seriously though I don't support it as a armour and shield tanked player with 2 logis with 1 shield and 1 armour rep tool would be OP (hence my NAMELESS post)
I would mind a shield booster like on tanks though. Thats a pretty good concern to bring up. Do armor repair tools stack? I forget. I think they do, maybe they shouldnt, for the same reason you bring up. Yes they stack. The more logis are repping you the higher the HP regen is. It would actually a drawback to change out one logi for shield recharge. Cause the base shield regen on armor suits is like 20HP/s and barely goes up with energizers/rechargers.
They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of:
"GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
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Lahut K'mar
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
52
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Posted - 2015.03.20 01:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
So why not just boost shield regen? Also bear in mind that this OP sentinel is a two man team one of whom is not a super tanked sentinel, but a skinny logi. If a few MD grenades land in the wrong spot, Mister Sentinel isn't going to survive long. Two Caldari sentinels still take up 1/8 of the clones, but have double the firepower, are both equally protected and if one falls the other can still keep fighting. Caldari sentinels are a pain because strike-and-run tactics simply don't work. You need to keep hitting them until they can't get back up and by then you've already got 4 barrels of .22 death aimed at your face. If there must be a shield repairer, I would have it as a pulse-cooldown thing.
Also while on the subject, I think a deployable shield generator would be pretty cool. Think a dome forcefield that protects equipment and mercs when no cover is available. 400 or so health, 20hp/s recharge, 20 second depleted recharge delay.
Horrifying? That's a strange way to spell "romantic".
FIX THE WHEEL, CCP!
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Ralden Caster
KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion.
156
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Posted - 2015.03.20 02:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
This shield booster should overheat after boosting for a bit to prevent spam though and allow for a well timed takedown of the sentinel with enough coordination.
Pick up a QUAFE weapon today;
ITS TIME TO PUMP LIQUID FREEDOM
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DJINN Jecture
MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH
284
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Posted - 2015.03.20 06:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
This would be OP, for instance your team is that fricken good that they take no armor damage, so you switch to your shield rep tool from your armor rep tool, then drop them some Gauged hives to supplement their bullets. Unstoppable force!
-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!
ߦäߦâ-à
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DJINN Jecture
MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH
284
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Posted - 2015.03.20 06:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lahut K'mar wrote: Also while on the subject, I think a deployable shield generator would be pretty cool. Think a dome forcefield that protects equipment and mercs when no cover is available. 400 or so health, 20hp/s recharge, 20 second depleted recharge delay.
This has been discussed as "in the works" (like the cloak was for over 2 years) by CCP with a SOONtm attached.
-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!
ߦäߦâ-à
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7678
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Posted - 2015.03.20 07:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
DJINN Jecture wrote:This would be OP, for instance your team is that fricken good that they take no armor damage, so you switch to your shield rep tool from your armor rep tool, then drop them some Gauged hives to supplement their bullets. Unstoppable force!
Really?
Present your evidence.
AV
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7678
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Posted - 2015.03.20 07:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ralden Caster wrote:This shield booster should overheat after boosting for a bit to prevent spam though and allow for a well timed takedown of the sentinel with enough coordination. Only if the remote armor rep overheats too.
AV
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
752
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Posted - 2015.03.20 07:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:It would be OP. Imagine a cal sent, with 80 or even more shield recharge and no delays.
Isn't that was the Armor heavies have right now? Or any armor based suit? I mean -- core is what -- 120 a sec no delays?
Seems to me any concept of shield rep tool being OP would apply equally to the armor rep tool.
Hence either rep tools are OP or neither are OP. It is ridiculous to say one is OP but somehow magically the other is not. (and that is not even arguing the lower ehp of shields....)
DJINN Jecture wrote:This would be OP, for instance your team is that fricken good that they take no armor damage, so you switch to your shield rep tool from your armor rep tool, then drop them some Gauged hives to supplement their bullets. Unstoppable force!
Same for this. Isn't that what armor based heavy/logi combos do now?
Seriously, you guys arguing against shield/armor support parity are trying to divide by zero.
*Imp Smash fails to understand how people miss simple rationale like this. Explodes into a wormhole.* |
The dark cloud
Negative-Feedback.
4169
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Posted - 2015.03.20 09:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
People say its OP but fail to back up that claim while we allready have very similar mechanics for armor suits. They are just trying to defend their armor exclusive crutch and WP farm tool. And what about it of the shield sentinel doesnt take armor damage? Its its main tank after all and he would actually be easier to kill then a fully plated amarr sentinel that has a minlogi sitting behind him. Ya know why? Cause shields can never get over 1000HP shields. Its just impossible.
They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of:
"GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7678
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Posted - 2015.03.20 09:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
Because equality of armor AND shields is somehow considered a nerf rather than parity.
There is nothing unbalanced about a shield repair tool.
Especially when armor rep tools are so damn powerful.
And the core 120 or 125/sec combined with the minlogi rep bonus is... not insanely potent?
How the everliving fck is having a shield rep tool somehow OP in the face of THAT??
AV
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The dark cloud
Negative-Feedback.
4169
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Posted - 2015.03.20 10:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Because equality of armor AND shields is somehow considered a nerf rather than parity.
There is nothing unbalanced about a shield repair tool.
Especially when armor rep tools are so damn powerful.
And the core 120 or 125/sec combined with the minlogi rep bonus is... not insanely potent?
How the everliving fck is having a shield rep tool somehow OP in the face of THAT?? Because shields could become competetive like armor and people dont like to have a new meta thats why. They are affraid that the easy kills they can get from shield suits could vanish. Though the whole game concept would still be intact:
-armor= slow moving, high HP, slow regen and high damage output -shield= fast moving, low HP, high regen and lower damage ouput
The game lore would remain intact the only difference is that when you play logi you can actually help a shield dropsuit rather then just watch how he dies. Eve has shield and armor logistic ships so why cant we have aswell both armor and shield logi suits?
Another thing is a well specced player with a proto scrambler rifle can deal over 100HP damage vs shields in a single shot. So you need like 7 scrambler rifle shots to get trough a cal. sentinel shields. Show me a anti armor weapon which can do the same thing to a fully plated amarr sentinel. And no the sniper rifle does not count.
They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of:
"GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game RUST415
662
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Posted - 2015.03.20 10:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
I like the idea.
How about a shield regen nanohive as well? You could maybe keep the Cal logi bonus to hives but make shield hives the primary method of regening other's shields. This would maintain some distinction between armour and shields. |
Jebus McKing
Nos Nothi
1769
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Posted - 2015.03.20 11:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'm not opposed to shield recharger tools, but I think it would be kinda boring if they worked just like armor rep tools for shields.
Why not make them a bit different?
Instead of giving them a set number of shield hp/s I think it would be interesting if shield tools worked kinda like a combined recharger + regulator.
(Just some numbers out of my ass so you get what I'm talking about. Totally not balanced.)
PRO Shield Modulator Tool target receives: +65% shield regen -35% shield depleted delay
Cal Logi could get a bonus to those tools, e.g. 25% bonus to regen = 81.25%; 50% to delay = 52.5%
In that example a Cal Sentinel with 3x extenders + 1x energizer + 1x regulator could have a regen rate of ~95hp/s, with a delay of ~1.16s while still having 830 shields and 100% mobility.
The idea behind that is that shield suits couldn't just stack a ton of extenders and run around with a 0s delay shield rep, but instead continue to work like shields usually do.
The shield user can make the shield tool more useful by using rechargers/energizers + regulators on his suit, but he has to give up hp for it.
Jebus hates scans.GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇ | GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇREs are fine.
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The dark cloud
Negative-Feedback.
4170
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Posted - 2015.03.20 11:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:I like the idea.
How about a shield regen nanohive as well? You could maybe keep the Cal logi bonus to hives but make shield hives the primary method of regening other's shields. This would maintain some distinction between armour and shields. Nah we want to get away from the nanohive bonus cause its the least popular and not really usefull since every 1 can allready carry 6 hives on ADV and be capable to resupply their whole team. It is questionaable why a good squad should favour a cal. logi for ammo over a gal. logi with scanners and normal ammo.
Scans=kills adv hives= easy resupply
and with that the whole purpose of the Cal. logi has become useless. Its not just that but sitting on a armor repping nanohive is campy and because the game is dynamic youll need to move constantly. Be it in ambush moving cause the spawns changed or on skirmish when you captured a objective and want to move onto the next one.
Shield recharger/Repair tools are better for dynamic gameplay cause you can move and heal somebody at the same time. Your reptool not vanishing when beeing hit by a locus grenade/flux is aswell a aspect thats against nanohives.
They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of:
"GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
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The dark cloud
Negative-Feedback.
4170
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Posted - 2015.03.20 11:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jebus McKing wrote:I'm not opposed to shield recharger tools, but I think it would be kinda boring if they worked just like armor rep tools for shields.
Why not make them a bit different?
Instead of giving them a set number of shield hp/s I think it would be interesting if shield tools worked kinda like a combined recharger + regulator.
(Just some numbers out of my ass so you get what I'm talking about. Totally not balanced.)
PRO Shield Modulator Tool target receives: +65% shield regen -35% shield depleted delay
Cal Logi could get a bonus to those tools, e.g. 25% bonus to regen = 81.25%; 50% to delay = 52.5%
In that example a Cal Sentinel with 3x extenders + 1x energizer + 1x regulator could have a regen rate of ~95hp/s, with a delay of ~1.16s while still having 830 shields and 100% mobility.
The idea behind that is that shield suits couldn't just stack a ton of extenders and run around with a 0s delay shield rep, but instead continue to work like shields usually do.
The shield user can make the shield tool more useful by using rechargers/energizers + regulators on his suit, but he has to give up hp for it. It would require new coding and maybe a clientside update. While my idea allready exists in the game files, just remember back when the Logi LAV's had infantry support modules. They just need to flip the bonus from the reptool and maybe make the beam blue instead of yellow. Another issue with your idea is that the logi would get no triage WP cause he actually doesnt generate HP for the game mechanic to work.
A logis main WP generation comes from the logistic work he does and if that doesnt work out nobody wants to use it. This is the main reason why for example minlogis are so much liked simply cause of the reptool beeing aible to generate tons of WP. While with the nanohive bonus you only get 10 WP for resupplying ammo.
Basically its like this: -no WP reward= no incentive to spec into it.
They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of:
"GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
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Jebus McKing
Nos Nothi
1771
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Posted - 2015.03.20 12:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:It would require new coding and maybe a clientside update. While my idea allready exists in the game files, just remember back when the Logi LAV's had infantry support modules. They just need to flip the bonus from the reptool and maybe make the beam blue instead of yellow. I don't think coding and clientside updates are that big of an issue. We have had clientside updates recently, we had new stuff which had to be coded first, Rattati talked about adding a new gamemode in the next clientside update, and even something something AI drones on training maps.
The dark cloud wrote:Another issue with your idea is that the logi would get no triage WP cause he actually doesnt generate HP for the game mechanic to work.
A logis main WP generation comes from the logistic work he does and if that doesnt work out nobody wants to use it. This is the main reason why for example minlogis are so much liked simply cause of the reptool beeing aible to generate tons of WP. While with the nanohive bonus you only get 10 WP for resupplying ammo.
Basically its like this: -no WP reward= no incentive to spec into it. It's true but also kinda sad and stupid. The goal should be to be useful to the team and help win matches by doing logi stuff, not just generate WPs for OBs.
It's the same reason why it seems few people use scanners in pubmatches even though they are probably the most useful equipment for supporting your team in fights.
(Also, I honestly think that the triage WP generation needs to get toned down a bit. Just my 0.02 ISK.)
Generating WPs with the kind of shield tool I proposed also is an issue that can be solved by coding. Just make it so you get triage points for each shield regen pulse done on the suit you are repping and we are good to go when it comes to generating WPs.
Sure, it might take a bit longer to make this kind of tool and there are issues to solve, but I'm willing to wait if at the end we get something that is new instead of a reskinned reptool for shields.
Otherwise we might as well just make new reptool variants that regen shields instead of armor, or even reptools variants that regen shields AND repair armor (at a reduced rate of course). Less exciting but it'll do, I guess.
Jebus hates scans.GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇ | GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇREs are fine.
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