... If it really was that OP, would it not have a larger presence in PC?

Also to note, MN Assault trending rapidly up, may need reining in soon.

I, for one, am incredibly surprised that there isn't a single Gal Assault/ TAR up there

Also Gal Scout...?

You sure this wasn't from last patch?

Scouts are irrelevant for slaying in PC now. Only reason to use one is for links and RE's on the same fit.

Gal/Cal scouts are still very good in PC with shotguns and remotes. I don't know what game you're playing, but it aint Dust 514.

Anothing thing i noticed my end was the claim that the "incubus is fine by proxy" made by Rattati, because of python kills in PC. The highest ranked Proto Incubus has 909 kills on the chart. Only about 7427 kills behind the Python. Just saying.

Not necessarily.

The ScR is notoriously bad against heavily armored sentinels, and PC today is all about heavily armored sentinels. Meta is likely more at play here than the weapon itself. The one unit type the ScR cannot melt in an instant just so happens to be the dominant unit type in competitive play.

Notice the armor meta.

The incubus is there to murder vehicles, its going to get less kills. If you want to farm infantry kills you go Python/Missile turret, so it gets more kills.

And this is one of its balancing points; it sucks against armor. I proposed a solution that would nerf its shield killing while not hurting its armor killing awhile back but it never got traction. But I hold by the fact that the ScR isn't in the top ten when it comes to kills in PC, and the fact that the shotgun, a weapon with ~1/20 the optimal (Shotgun: 4m vs ScR: 75m) and barely more DPS ( Viziam ScR: 715, CreoDron Shotgun: 754) is head and shoulders above the ScR in presence, and the shotgun also has an armor weakness. The ScR is powerful no doubt, but that power comes at a high price, a price people obviously aren't willing to pay by a very large margin.

I would also pooint out that over 90% of all ScR kills come from a single suit. The ScR has about 400 kills on a couple of scouts, and other than that no presence on any other suit, save Amarr Assault.

I'll be over here with a forge pointed up while incubus pilots experiment with the blaster changes.

This is either going to be really hilarious or really scary.

I'm personally hoping for hilariously scary.

I keep trying to get this point across too: its way too good against shields to be balanced and not good enough against armor to be useful in PC. Nobody wants to touch their precious scrambler rifle to fix it, but until both of these issues are fixed its going to be a ****** weapon, both in terms of prohibiting real shield tanking and being not good enough in competitive environments.

Its overpowered and underpowered at the same time but whenever I suggest fixing it people cry like babies. And the problem is even worse for the ASCR since you cant front load massive damage bursts by clicking fast enough.

I proposed a solution to its shield devastation that never gained traction.

I feel like the HMG range nerf is uncalled for. The HMG doesn't hit hard and accurate like a rifle. Instead, it just sprays bullets at a target and hopes enough of them hit. Therefore, instead of nerfing range, why not just greatly increase dispersion? It reduces DPS not by doing less damage at range, but because less rounds are actually hitting the target at range.

I proposed a solution to its shield devastation that never gained traction.

Interesting. But why create a separate damage profile for the ScR? Why not apply this proposed profile to all laser weaponry?

(simply curious ... not trying to poke holes in your proposition)

dispersion actually HELPS in CQC. the most torturous part of the HMG screwballs in Uprising 1.0 was when the HMG did the laser beam thing. It was insanely hard to apply damage at all the closer you got.

Tighter dispersion means more rounds hit, yes, but it's also a much smaller area where aim assist applies bullet magnetism.

Interesting. But why create a separate damage profile for the ScR? Why not apply this proposed profile to all laser weaponry?

(simply curious ... not trying to poke holes in your proposition)

Exatly, this helps it in CQC. But the argument is that the HMG is too good at range, and in that regard more dispersion is a hindrance than help.

being too good at range is a side effect of "too much DPS to begin with." If it's doing as much DPS at range as would be fair as a baseline for overall DPS, is it a better solution to hack the range? or reduce the DPS.

Honestly most of the crying for range nerfs is rather reminiscent of the calls in beta to hack the range of the HMG when we had more open ground maps, which made them easy to farm for KD. there's a few things going on here.

But the range? Nah. People want the range hacked because for some reason most players have it in their head that if a heavy can do ANY damage at 50m it's overpowered.

The range nerf that has been bandied about is a side effect of the mindset that crystallized during beta. Problem is in the gal lab 20 meter optimal isn't going to affect a DAMN thing in the orbital artillery map, the gallente lab underground bunker, Etc.

It'll just be easier to farm them on the rare occasion they want to move around.

I have a great idea to nerf the HMG!

Everyone keeps focusing on range.
That is one factor in all weapons.
Why don't we take the ammo in the hopper down. Then we will see heavies perform closer to the PLC (I threw up a little thinking about heavies with PLCs.)

Heavies will then still be dangerous and use HMGs, but they will be down, reloading more. Using the burst like I do, the heat is the factor that has a huge impact, but bullets are also needed. This will take the time the guns are spraying a crowd down. Don't expect them to disappear from PCs, just expect more percision and team work to keep the HMGs up on the battlefield then.

As a heavy, I yell out, reloading a lot, then step back. Sometimes my logis and I have had to fight with sidearms because the scouts wouldn't let us reload. It makes for more nail biting conflicts. Instead of the back and forth of nerfing ranges and dps.
The HMG needs to continue to out DPS the other weapons at CQC. If you make variants that is great, but reduce the ammo on the boundless because it doesn't have a downside or skill requirement. Make clip management the downside.

What do people think?

I have a great idea to nerf the HMG!

Everyone keeps focusing on range.
That is one factor in all weapons.
Why don't we take the ammo in the hopper down. Then we will see heavies perform closer to the PLC (I threw up a little thinking about heavies with PLCs.)

Heavies will then still be dangerous and use HMGs, but they will be down, reloading more. Using the burst like I do, the heat is the factor that has a huge impact, but bullets are also needed. This will take the time the guns are spraying a crowd down. Don't expect them to disappear from PCs, just expect more percision and team work to keep the HMGs up on the battlefield then.

As a heavy, I yell out, reloading a lot, then step back. Sometimes my logis and I have had to fight with sidearms because the scouts wouldn't let us reload. It makes for more nail biting conflicts. Instead of the back and forth of nerfing ranges and dps.
The HMG needs to continue to out DPS the other weapons at CQC or it will simply be dropped for the next lowest TTK defense weapon. If you make variants that is great and make heavy's roles change possibly, but reduce the ammo on the boundless because it doesn't have a downside or skill requirement which is the most OP effect. Make clip management the downside.

Also, if you guys want to change the types of heavies up a bit, make heavies get a racial benefit to a specific weapon variant. It worked for the assaults and commandos. Wouldn't that expand which heavy is chosen. Give the Min Heavy the boudless HMG. Then heavies will be using weapons more based on race.

What do people think?

I agree mostly, but I feel like the HMG is justified to have high DPS like it does. The issue is damage application in my mind. Keep it at high damage for when they get in close, but hinder its effectiveness farther out through dispersion.

Now that would cause an out roar, but in a way Titanfall pulled it off perfectly with the Smart Pistol MK5, doubt CCP could do it.

Well I don't know the exact reason for the use of the Amarr and Caldari Heavy Frames, I do know the reasons for using the Minmatar
and Gallente and that being speed.
Now I use the Minmatar Heavy Frame because of the increased base movement speed with sprint speed of 7.71 with two Kin Cats and the Burst HMG and I'd like to think that I got most of those kills but I don't know for sure and the probably the reason some one/people use the Gallente is for the 7.85 sprint speed but I don't know anyone that uses it.

I think we've kittened around long enough with heat/reload/ammo to know that at this point it is the sheer killing potential that is the problem. Heat/Reload/Ammo doesn't matter when everyone in front of you is already dead.

this would require a much faster loading time to be viable. Which would negate a lot of the intent.