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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Alena Ventrallis
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
2581
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Posted - 2015.03.05 06:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Notice how the scrambler rifle isn't up there? Almost like it's not OP or something. Weird.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
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Alena Ventrallis
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
2585
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 15:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Notice how the scrambler rifle isn't up there? Almost like it's not OP or something. Weird. It's right up there, a few hundred kills from the top 10...
Yet outclassed by I see 12 weapons I believe? I do not deny its power at all, but there is a reason it isn't in the top 5, or even the top 10. I meant no offense to you, I simply get frustrated when people call a weapon OP without considering all data points.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
|
Alena Ventrallis
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
2585
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 15:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote: ... I simply get frustrated when people call a weapon OP without considering all data points. Or it could have something to do with the prevalence of armor tank in PC. I wouldn't be quick to label the ScR "not OP" ... it is presently Nyain San's (Addict, Kaizuka, Milkman, Aki etc) weapon of choice when stomping Ambush pubs, and we know for a fact that these guys don't fool around when it comes to pubstomping.
As I've said before, the ScR is indeed very powerful, but for a very limited window. Overheat is a punishing disadvantage. If it really was that OP, would it not have a larger presence in PC? Yet it doesn't even make the top ten. Pubs are a contentious place to look for balancing, because you are not on an equal playing field; yes, my Viziam is going to maul starter suits, just like any other proto rifle will. PC is the best place to look for balance issues because everyone is on similar footing in terms of gear. We are all basically in proto suits with proto weapons and proto mods. So seeing what is used in PC gives a good look at what needs to be tweaked.
IT should by no means be the only data point. We should consider all data points, like PC usage, DPS, range, ease-of-use, alpha damage, etc. But PC usage is all about optimization, and if the ScR really was the wondeful death-machine some forum wariors make it out to be, then the top players of PC would be using it when they clearly aren't.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
|
Alena Ventrallis
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
2585
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 16:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:... If it really was that OP, would it not have a larger presence in PC? Not necessarily. The ScR is notoriously bad against heavily armored sentinels, and PC today is all about heavily armored sentinels. Meta is likely more at play here than the weapon itself. The one unit type the ScR cannot melt in an instant just so happens to be the dominant unit type in competitive play.
And this is one of its balancing points; it sucks against armor. I proposed a solution that would nerf its shield killing while not hurting its armor killing awhile back but it never got traction. But I hold by the fact that the ScR isn't in the top ten when it comes to kills in PC, and the fact that the shotgun, a weapon with ~1/20 the optimal (Shotgun: 4m vs ScR: 75m) and barely more DPS ( Viziam ScR: 715, CreoDron Shotgun: 754) is head and shoulders above the ScR in presence, and the shotgun also has an armor weakness. The ScR is powerful no doubt, but that power comes at a high price, a price people obviously aren't willing to pay by a very large margin.
I would also pooint out that over 90% of all ScR kills come from a single suit. The ScR has about 400 kills on a couple of scouts, and other than that no presence on any other suit, save Amarr Assault.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
|
Alena Ventrallis
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
2587
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 16:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
I feel like the HMG range nerf is uncalled for. The HMG doesn't hit hard and accurate like a rifle. Instead, it just sprays bullets at a target and hopes enough of them hit. Therefore, instead of nerfing range, why not just greatly increase dispersion? It reduces DPS not by doing less damage at range, but because less rounds are actually hitting the target at range.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
|
Alena Ventrallis
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
2587
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 16:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:... If it really was that OP, would it not have a larger presence in PC? Not necessarily. The ScR is notoriously bad against heavily armored sentinels, and PC today is all about heavily armored sentinels. Meta is likely more at play here than the weapon itself. The one unit type the ScR cannot melt in an instant just so happens to be the dominant unit type in competitive play. And this is one of its balancing points; it sucks against armor. I proposed a solution that would nerf its shield killing while not hurting its armor killing awhile back but it never got traction. But I hold by the fact that the ScR isn't in the top ten when it comes to kills in PC, and the fact that the shotgun, a weapon with ~1/20 the optimal (Shotgun: 4m vs ScR: 75m) and barely more DPS ( Viziam ScR: 715, CreoDron Shotgun: 754) is head and shoulders above the ScR in presence, and the shotgun also has an armor weakness. The ScR is powerful no doubt, but that power comes at a high price, a price people obviously aren't willing to pay by a very large margin. I would also pooint out that over 90% of all ScR kills come from a single suit. The ScR has about 400 kills on a couple of scouts, and other than that no presence on any other suit, save Amarr Assault. I keep trying to get this point across too: its way too good against shields to be balanced and not good enough against armor to be useful in PC. Nobody wants to touch their precious scrambler rifle to fix it, but until both of these issues are fixed its going to be a ****** weapon, both in terms of prohibiting real shield tanking and being not good enough in competitive environments. Its overpowered and underpowered at the same time but whenever I suggest fixing it people cry like babies. And the problem is even worse for the ASCR since you cant front load massive damage bursts by clicking fast enough.
I proposed a solution to its shield devastation that never gained traction.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
|
Alena Ventrallis
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
2590
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 17:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Interesting. But why create a separate damage profile for the ScR? Why not apply this proposed profile to all laser weaponry? (simply curious ... not trying to poke holes in your proposition)
For similar reasons to the CR not having -20/+20 like the MD. I feel like +15/-15 is opposite the CR -15/+15, and the LR +20/-20 is opposite the MD -20/+20. Lore-wise, Eve ships have different ammo types that trade range for more damage. The short range laser ammo in Eve does this by upping thermal damage along with em damage, meaning the ScR is loaded with short range crystals that deal some thermal damage (thus +15/-15) while the LR is loaded with a long range crystal (thus +20/-20) And in the end, the range profile in my eyes did more good than harm.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
|
Alena Ventrallis
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
2590
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 17:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:I feel like the HMG range nerf is uncalled for. The HMG doesn't hit hard and accurate like a rifle. Instead, it just sprays bullets at a target and hopes enough of them hit. Therefore, instead of nerfing range, why not just greatly increase dispersion? It reduces DPS not by doing less damage at range, but because less rounds are actually hitting the target at range. dispersion actually HELPS in CQC. the most torturous part of the HMG screwballs in Uprising 1.0 was when the HMG did the laser beam thing. It was insanely hard to apply damage at all the closer you got. Tighter dispersion means more rounds hit, yes, but it's also a much smaller area where aim assist applies bullet magnetism.
Exatly, this helps it in CQC. But the argument is that the HMG is too good at range, and in that regard more dispersion is a hindrance than help.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
|
Alena Ventrallis
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
2590
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 17:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:I feel like the HMG range nerf is uncalled for. The HMG doesn't hit hard and accurate like a rifle. Instead, it just sprays bullets at a target and hopes enough of them hit. Therefore, instead of nerfing range, why not just greatly increase dispersion? It reduces DPS not by doing less damage at range, but because less rounds are actually hitting the target at range. dispersion actually HELPS in CQC. the most torturous part of the HMG screwballs in Uprising 1.0 was when the HMG did the laser beam thing. It was insanely hard to apply damage at all the closer you got. Tighter dispersion means more rounds hit, yes, but it's also a much smaller area where aim assist applies bullet magnetism. Exatly, this helps it in CQC. But the argument is that the HMG is too good at range, and in that regard more dispersion is a hindrance than help. being too good at range is a side effect of "too much DPS to begin with." If it's doing as much DPS at range as would be fair as a baseline for overall DPS, is it a better solution to hack the range? or reduce the DPS. Honestly most of the crying for range nerfs is rather reminiscent of the calls in beta to hack the range of the HMG when we had more open ground maps, which made them easy to farm for KD. there's a few things going on here. But the range? Nah. People want the range hacked because for some reason most players have it in their head that if a heavy can do ANY damage at 50m it's overpowered. The range nerf that has been bandied about is a side effect of the mindset that crystallized during beta. Problem is in the gal lab 20 meter optimal isn't going to affect a DAMN thing in the orbital artillery map, the gallente lab underground bunker, Etc. It'll just be easier to farm them on the rare occasion they want to move around.
I agree mostly, but I feel like the HMG is justified to have high DPS like it does. The issue is damage application in my mind. Keep it at high damage for when they get in close, but hinder its effectiveness farther out through dispersion.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
|
Alena Ventrallis
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
2602
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 05:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:
Something needs to be done about those pronto while reining in that Min Assault.
There's nothing to reign in. The only advantages the MinAssault has over the others are speed and versatility. In any other aspect, be it health, regen, eWAR, equipment, etc it either performs equally or is inferior to the other Assaults.
And yet people are flocking to it in droves, I'm guessing not for the aesthetics. It can have the speed of a scout with easily twice the health, can be dual bricked, and gets a bonus to the already OP CR. It needs reigning in.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
|
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Alena Ventrallis
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
2613
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 14:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:500k ISK says the AScR changes are going to put a sharp halt to the popularity of the min assault.
And i will laugh while killing amarr from extreme range.
In my covenant C-1
with a militia rail rifle blueprint
And my basic ScR will show you the light of God by beaming it right through your face,
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
|
Alena Ventrallis
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
2614
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 06:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:Can anyone tell me how the ASCR heat buildup feels on a non Amarr suit? I've never used one outside of my Amarr assault. If it is like all the other Amarr guns and the suit is very important to heat buildup then I wonder how many people might switch to Amarr suits. Which will make armor tanking even more prevalent.
The meta shakeup from this upcoming patch is going to be fascinating. (and probably take a few months to fully shift around.)
Overheats in 57 shots, about 3/4 magazine. Cooldown is much slower though.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
|
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