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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
899
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Posted - 2015.03.03 17:56:00 -
[121] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:
and to compensate for commandos, you just buff their damage bonus to 20%.
Please don't. I know your suggestion is intended well but this will have serious consequences in the AV side. The kind that mean more vehicle rebalancing than we already have to do.
I see your point. We could exclude av from that though to maintain balance with av against vehicles |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7461
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Posted - 2015.03.03 18:00:00 -
[122] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:
and to compensate for commandos, you just buff their damage bonus to 20%.
Please don't. I know your suggestion is intended well but this will have serious consequences in the AV side. The kind that mean more vehicle rebalancing than we already have to do. I see your point. We could exclude av from that though to maintain balance with av against vehicles
There's a lot of work that needs to be done.
AV
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Evan Gotabor
Prima Gallicus
149
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Posted - 2015.03.03 18:03:00 -
[123] - Quote
I would be interested in seing the data about the most used weapons in general. I wouldn't be surprised to see the remote explosives to be just after the HMG. However no need to nerf them right...
Prima Gallicus diplomat
Eve 21 day Trial
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7461
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Posted - 2015.03.03 18:04:00 -
[124] - Quote
Evan Gotabor wrote:I would be interested in seing the data about the most used weapons in general. I wouldn't be surprised to see the remote explosives to be just after the HMG. However no need to nerf them right...
there is absolutely ample reason to change/nerf the HMG.
My problem is this particular "solution" proposed has been done four times already, and all it did was shift the pendulum the other way.
So why not kick sentinels out of CQC and into the open where they can both excel, and be vulnerable to weapons that can kill them rapidly?
AV
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
8907
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Posted - 2015.03.03 18:24:00 -
[125] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Aeon, you put Gallente Assault Rail as pure.
As much as I'd love for that to be true....nah.
No, I didn't. Items -in- italics are 'pure'.
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
22439
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Posted - 2015.03.03 18:33:00 -
[126] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:HMG dps and range will be toned down, burst hmg will keep current range, assault hmg will be a longer range autocannon with anti-vehicle capability. At last!
*screaming and applause*
Gallente Guide
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
8907
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Posted - 2015.03.03 18:38:00 -
[127] - Quote
See, my thing is, why is the Gallente Assault using an Assault Rail Rifle, a weapon it doesn't provide a specialized bonus toward, more often than an Assault Rifle, which it does.
At first I thought, "Well maybe players just prefer armor over shields" but that's not the case as the Caldari Assault is more popular with the same weapon. Armor is great in Pubs but speed and damage output is where it's at in PC. That fact is further established by the popularity of the Minmatar Assault.
So, my thinking is that the Assault Rail Rifle is good enough on it's own to go without warrant of a specialized bonus, so much so that it's actually worth -more- than using a typical Assault Rifle on the Gallente Assault, despite the implications of a bonus. It occurs more than the Assault Rifle, as well.
Personally, I think it's just coming down to the fact that Range is worth more than raw DPS.
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7463
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Posted - 2015.03.03 18:43:00 -
[128] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote: Personally, I think it's just coming down to the fact that Range is worth more than raw DPS.
on anything but a 100% CQC combat your statement is absolutely correct.
Any weapon that retains utility in the widest range of applications will always be the go-to choice for any game.
Especially when the DPS advantage of the gallente rifles do not approach the advantage of the CR/RR range advantage.
DPS doesn't mean anything if you can't apply said DPS.
AV
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
7191
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Posted - 2015.03.03 19:04:00 -
[129] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:John Psi wrote: Scout, whose task should be to EWAR
EWAR Scouts were put out to pasture with Falloff. The GalLogi is the only competitive Recon & Counter-Infiltration unit. What exactly do you mean by the Falloff mechanic removing the EWAR role from scouts? In what sense? There are three parts to EWAR: infiltration, counter-infiltration and recon. Between HF Alpha and HF Charlie, there were two competitive EWAR Scouts: GA Scout - Infiltration CA Scout - Counter-Infiltration, Recon (long-range / low-precision) Between HF Charlie and Falloff, there were three competitive EWAR Scouts: GA Scout - Infiltration AM Scout - Counter-Infiltration (short-range / low-precision) CA Scout - Recon (long range / high-precision) Following Falloff, there remains one competitive EWAR Scout: GA Scout - Infiltration
Today, passive counter-infiltration and passive recon are both insufficiently potent to compete with GalLogi long-range / low-precision active scans. Since Falloff, the GalLogi has replaced 2 of 3 EWAR Scouts and has become the only source of competitive recon and competitive counter-infiltration. Whether or not this is good or bad is up for debate, but if our thinking is like John Psi's in that "Scouts should be out scouting" then our thinking is out-dated. Scouts are still good for sneaking, but they are no longer good for scouting. 1. You didn't answer his question; you haven't make it clear how having the concentric scanning circles with scan precision falloff, ruined EWAR and somehow suddenly made the GalLogi better in comparison. 2. If anything, having a close range scanning circle with higher precision and a higher than base range scanning circle with lower precision, improves EWAR scouts and makes EWAR in general better with more counterplay (assualts can dampen a litlle, logis can scan a bit, and you can now play with varying zones of precision). 3. Also nothing about the GalLogi or active scanners changed with that.
1. Hmmm. May specific numbers will help:
Prior to Falloff, an EWAR-maxed CA Scout provided passive recon at a fixed 20dB out to 91 meters. Today, the same unit scans at 10dB out to 12m, 20dB out to 29m, 26dB out to 58m.
Prior to Falloff, an EWAR-maxed AM Scout provided passive recon at a fixed 18dB out to 86 meters. Today, the same unit scans at 9dB out to 9m, 18dB out to 22m, 23dB out to 44m.
To summarize, the "effective range" of passive scans has been more-or-less reduced by half.
2. High-intensity inner scan rings serve to provide early warning of incoming flank attack, and that's pretty much it. Beyond "I'm being attacked over here" inner scan rings are far too limited in range to provide meaningful recon / counter-infiltration functions. If you're 5-10 meters away from a unit, you are very likely engaged in combat with that unit. In the absence of GalLogi perma-scan, you are absolutely correct about more interplay and counterplay among different unit types.
3. That is correct. GalLogi scans are as strong as ever, which is why they've replaced the weakened Recon Scout. Passive recon is out, GalLogi active scans are in, and the highest tiers competitive play is perma-scanned at 21dB. Pretty much just like an Ambush match against Nyain San.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Evan Gotabor
Prima Gallicus
149
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Posted - 2015.03.03 19:07:00 -
[130] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Evan Gotabor wrote:I would be interested in seing the data about the most used weapons in general. I wouldn't be surprised to see the remote explosives to be just after the HMG. However no need to nerf them right... there is absolutely ample reason to change/nerf the HMG. My problem is this particular "solution" proposed has been done four times already, and all it did was shift the pendulum the other way. So why not kick sentinels out of CQC and into the open where they can both excel, and be vulnerable to weapons that can kill them rapidly?
I don't say HMG don't need some changes, I just say that the remotes are as much efficient, but they remain untouched by CCP...
Prima Gallicus diplomat
Eve 21 day Trial
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Mexxx Dust-Slayer
Negative-Feedback
399
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Posted - 2015.03.03 19:11:00 -
[131] - Quote
I'd like to see an HMG dps and range nerf with a proportionate heat build up reduction so non-amarr sentinels can can actually brawl with the amarr sentinel.
Of course the gal scout is 2nd becuase the only scans in PC are gal logi scans, and the gal scout is the only scout that can get under most scans without being completely gimped therefore it is the best counter to the amarr heavy + logi spam with the use of shotguns and REs. |
Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge VP Gaming Alliance
1016
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Posted - 2015.03.03 19:19:00 -
[132] - Quote
Part of the problem I've sen in balancing attempts that I hope to avoid here is: X weapon and/or suite is being favored because of Y advantage.
Nerf X to be balanced (but people are still skilled into X and are familure with it so the continue to us the now balanced weapon and/or suite)
Nerf X more to make it subpar to force people to look for the next FOTM
Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
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The-Errorist
1074
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Posted - 2015.03.03 19:22:00 -
[133] - Quote
Thank you being clear in post #129 and bring up specific numbers.
Suits, Tanks, a mode
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7467
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Posted - 2015.03.03 19:37:00 -
[134] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Thank you being clear in post #129 and bring up specific numbers. Also, this needs to be mentioned: Range amps are now crap and have no value to any suit. On a Cal scout, a complex range amp only adds 5m to medium and 6m to long range. range amps should have been made a flat 15m extension.
AV
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
22442
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Posted - 2015.03.03 19:40:00 -
[135] - Quote
The range amp nerf was... excessive. Possibly unnecessary, too.
Gallente Guide
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
7192
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Posted - 2015.03.03 19:48:00 -
[136] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The range amp nerf was... excessive. Possibly unnecessary, too.
The concern at the time was how these changes would affect the Heavy/Logi blob. Looking at this data, that concern was well-founded. Imagine if the blob had unbeatable passive scans out to ~30 meters (instead of 10). That is what would've happened had Cat Merc and Zatara's proposal been passed without the Rattati's intervention and Range Amp nerf.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7467
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Posted - 2015.03.03 19:52:00 -
[137] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The range amp nerf was... excessive. Possibly unnecessary, too. The concern at the time was how these changes would affect the Heavy/Logi blob. Looking at this data, that concern was well-founded. Imagine if the blob had unbeatable passive scans out to ~30 meters (instead of 10). That is what would've happened had Cat Merc and Zatara's proposal been passed without the Rattati's intervention and Range Amp nerf. Yes, the Range Amp nerf rendered them useless, but it was a necessary evil. We could fix them if we found a way to extend upon Middle and Outer Scan Rings while leaving the super-precise inner ring constant. If we wanted to, that is; I seem recall being told that "OP Wallhacks" were OP. If we can break the blob the reasoning for the nerf is obsolete.
AV
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1011
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Posted - 2015.03.03 19:58:00 -
[138] - Quote
To be quite honest, I'm not very sure whether reducing HMG range is the correct solution to the problem that HMGs are very popular at close range.
Problem: Everyone uses the HMG for the CQC fights that happen a lot in PCs. Solution: Reduce HMG range.
What to do about that? I'm not sure. One option would be to have more maps that have three objectives outside the outpost. That'd probably fix it. The alternative would be to turn the HMG into the short-to-medium weapon it was supposed to be. That means down with the DPS but up with the range. Do this until other options dominate CQC. This won't fix the fact that PC fights pretty much appear to happen at less than 30m range. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
7195
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Posted - 2015.03.03 20:02:00 -
[139] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote: If we can break the blob the reasoning for the nerf is obsolete.
Not necessarily.
For reasons, we ruled that "360 wallhacks" were OP. Whatever those reasons were (ask Zatara), they very likely still exist as nothing else has changed.
Further, there's an issue with backstab viability. Today's 5-10m inner ring often gives me time to spot, insta-spin and insta-gank the would-be knifer on my heels. If that 5-10m were to become 10-20m, no one would ever knife me again. Which is kinda crappy in my book, not to mention imbalanced; in my opinion, a Low Slot module shouldn't confer a free pass against Backstabs.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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RedPencil
Random Gunz RISE of LEGION
161
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Posted - 2015.03.03 20:08:00 -
[140] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Bright Steel wrote: I believe the proliferation of MinASS has a lot to do with how powerful assaults have become as a whole while leaving two without meaningful bonuses. While also being effected by the proliferation of heavy armor.
I suspect a simpler explanation: A Fast and Tanky unit will tend to outperform Fast or Tanky units. The MN Assault is exceptionally good at being both.
+ ewar-falloff also give them an advantage. They can see a SG or NK who sneak up behind them, give then an option to sprint away to grain a distance to turn back to fight.
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7469
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Posted - 2015.03.03 20:23:00 -
[141] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote: If we can break the blob the reasoning for the nerf is obsolete.
Not necessarily. For reasons, we ruled that "360 wallhacks" were OP. Whatever those reasons were (ask Zatara), they very likely still exist as nothing else has changed. Further, there's an issue with backstab viability. Today's 5-10m inner ring often gives me time to spot, insta-spin and insta-gank the would-be knifer on my heels. If that 5-10m were to become 10-20m, no one would ever knife me again. This would be kinda crappy and broken, in my book at least. For this reason, I think we should fix inner scan rings at a set value, then pursue extending middle / outer scan rings with Range Amps. All assuming, of course, we want to return range amps and longer range passive scans to play. I was talking solely range amp nerf.
I have no issue with the inner ring
AV
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RedPencil
Random Gunz RISE of LEGION
162
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Posted - 2015.03.03 20:25:00 -
[142] - Quote
Evan Gotabor wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Evan Gotabor wrote:I would be interested in seing the data about the most used weapons in general. I wouldn't be surprised to see the remote explosives to be just after the HMG. However no need to nerf them right... there is absolutely ample reason to change/nerf the HMG. My problem is this particular "solution" proposed has been done four times already, and all it did was shift the pendulum the other way. So why not kick sentinels out of CQC and into the open where they can both excel, and be vulnerable to weapons that can kill them rapidly? I don't say HMG don't need some changes, I just say that the remotes are as much efficient, but they remain untouched by CCP...
Please study some history, so you won't embarrass yourself. The RE got nerf every literater. Start from prevent detonate during bleeding, increase detonate time, dmg progress, add bandwidth an so on....
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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Big miku
Nation of Miku
461
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Posted - 2015.03.03 20:32:00 -
[143] - Quote
I still don't understand how the heavy with HMG excelling at its intended role is bad. Tell us CCP devs, what do you want the heavy to be?
If heavy spam is such a problem, just increase the number of clones a heavy counts for. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
7200
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Posted - 2015.03.03 20:38:00 -
[144] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote: If we can break the blob the reasoning for the nerf is obsolete.
Not necessarily. For reasons, we ruled that "360 wallhacks" were OP. Whatever those reasons were (ask Zatara), they very likely still exist as nothing else has changed. Further, there's an issue with backstab viability. Today's 5-10m inner ring often gives me time to spot, insta-spin and insta-gank the would-be knifer on my heels. If that 5-10m were to become 10-20m, no one would ever knife me again. This would be kinda crappy and broken, in my book at least. For this reason, I think we should fix inner scan rings at a set value, then pursue extending middle / outer scan rings with Range Amps. All assuming, of course, we want to return range amps and longer range passive scans to play. I was talking solely range amp nerf. I have no issue with the inner ring
Right. Fewer words:
Reverse Range Amp Nerf = Bigger Inner Rings = Imbalance
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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RedPencil
Random Gunz RISE of LEGION
162
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Posted - 2015.03.03 20:46:00 -
[145] - Quote
Big miku wrote:I still don't understand how the heavy with HMG excelling at its intended role is bad. Tell us CCP devs, what do you want the heavy to be?
If heavy spam is such a problem, just increase the number of clones a heavy counts for.
"THE NUMBER IS TOO DAMN HIGH!" If it exceed only 10-15% They won't worry about it. But right now, it is exceed 30% and still growth.
Ask yourself, what is a reason to have suit and weapon various if all user select to run only heavy?
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7469
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Posted - 2015.03.03 20:52:00 -
[146] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote: If we can break the blob the reasoning for the nerf is obsolete.
Not necessarily. For reasons, we ruled that "360 wallhacks" were OP. Whatever those reasons were (ask Zatara), they very likely still exist as nothing else has changed. Further, there's an issue with backstab viability. Today's 5-10m inner ring often gives me time to spot, insta-spin and insta-gank the would-be knifer on my heels. If that 5-10m were to become 10-20m, no one would ever knife me again. This would be kinda crappy and broken, in my book at least. For this reason, I think we should fix inner scan rings at a set value, then pursue extending middle / outer scan rings with Range Amps. All assuming, of course, we want to return range amps and longer range passive scans to play. I was talking solely range amp nerf. I have no issue with the inner ring Right. Will retry with fewer words: Reverse Range Amp Nerf = Bigger Inner Rings = Imbalance Reverse Range Amp Nerf = Stronger Scout Passives = "OP Wallhacks" Opinion.
AV
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Big miku
Nation of Miku
462
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Posted - 2015.03.03 20:52:00 -
[147] - Quote
RedPencil wrote:"THE NUMBER IS TOO DAMN HIGH!"[/b] If it exceed only 10-15% They won't worry about it. But right now, it is exceed 30% and still growth.
Ask yourself, what is a reason to have suit and weapon various if all user select to run only heavy?
Everyone don't run heavy though, the fact is heavies were meant for cqc, so they Excell at it. Heavy+Logi combo is a powerful force.
What next? Complain about sniper rifles ruling ultra long range combat?
What do You want the heavy you to be? |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7469
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Posted - 2015.03.03 20:55:00 -
[148] - Quote
Big miku wrote:the fact is heavies were meant for cqc, this is an arbitrary statement. it's also a statement that has become highly problematic.
The HMG sentinel is too powerful in CQC and because of this, marginalizes non-scouts, which excel at murdering sentinels.
And I've stated on numerous occasions what the heavies should be. AV and area denial.
AV
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
7201
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Posted - 2015.03.03 20:57:00 -
[149] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote: Right. Will retry with fewer words:
Reverse Range Amp Nerf = Bigger Inner Rings = Imbalance Reverse Range Amp Nerf = Stronger Scout Passives = "OP Wallhacks"
Opinion.
Yes, the first is my opinion. The second is Zatara's.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Big miku
Nation of Miku
462
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Posted - 2015.03.03 20:59:00 -
[150] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote: this is an arbitrary statement. it's also a statement that has become highly problematic.
The HMG sentinel is too powerful in CQC and because of this, marginalizes non-scouts, which excel at murdering sentinels.
And I've stated on numerous occasions what the heavies should be. AV and area denial.
Why on earth would people spec into a suit mentioned for that when swarms, Mass drivers and plasma cannons are light weapons? |
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