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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6799	Posted - 2014.09.09 13:47:00 - [1] - Quote All right, this may get interesting. First let me thank the CPM, Barbershop, dedicated snipers and Iron Wolf Saber for a lot of feedback and information gathering. In the end, it's going to be CCP, that makes the most informed decision we can, so please don't blame them for the bad things, and pat them on the back for the good things. The intent is to bring snipers closer to the battle, and specifically not have to rely on countersniping a Thale's with a Thale's. Boosting headshot damage modifiers will reward skilled snipers, and make countersniping and heavy take-downs way more feasible. We think these are moderate proposals and are intended to be buffs to the role, but will also increase the risk of the sniper, and that is intended. We want there to be a proper range progression from novaknife to sniper rifle, and a place on the battle field for each range bracket. Now to the design goals/intent. Please try to frame your feedback so it is relative to these roles. Sniper Rifle - the Suppressor, enough firepower to line up enough bodyshots to suppress, kill stragglers and countersnipe Highest range, medium clip and medium ammo, sustainable dps High damage - High headshot modifier 300% (from 196%) New Effective range - 450 Reticule - New Sniper reticule based on Plasma cannon Charged Sniper Rifle - the Executioner, one shot-one kill type Trades range and ROF for alpha damage, high headshot multiplier and highest native damage, smallest clip and ammo High damage - Very high headshot modifier 350% (from 196%) New Effective Range - 400 Reticule - New Sniper reticule based on Plasma cannon Tactical Sniper Rifle - the Rifleman, stand and shoot, and has enough ROF and damage output to effectively take down approaching enemies. (basically super TAR) High damage - high headshot modifier - 250% (from 196%) Main change - Increased ROF, clip size and ammo, direct damage New Effective Range - 350 Reticule - the current circle to allow shorter range engagements and snap shots Keeping all ranges well out of Forge gun ranges and retaining enough range to be effective. The Thale's zoom and range will be adjusted properly to fit thes design goals, ie. the zoom will be adapted and the current zoom reduced. We do not want to touch stability, sway, nor accuracy in this pass, so please refrain from posting such comments. Please try to keep this civil and constructive, and to the point. There will be no ranting tolerated here, we have had enough in recent threads. Talk about the points, what we missed, what we did right and do not project what you think other people or CCP know or think about snipers. Just your personal feedback. Thanks! "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1645	Posted - 2014.09.09 13:56:00 - [2] - Quote And please, no comments about getting settled in with some popco...... Dammit!!!!! CPM 1 member CEO of DUST University Vist dustcpm.com
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1919	Posted - 2014.09.09 13:56:00 - [3] - Quote not a sniper but these changes seem quit bold Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando V, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1038	Posted - 2014.09.09 14:03:00 - [4] - Quote Will the Thale's continue to work along the lines of the Garden Variety Sniper Rifle with Charge-caliber damage, Garden Variety clip and improved zoom? As for the Charge, define "smallest clip and ammo". I don't use the TacSR now and probably will continue to not do so as lining up a headshot at relatively close range against a dropsuit zig-zagging toward me is outside of my ability. But the proposal seems to accomplish what you set out to do for the TacSR (i.e.: giving it a niche). I need those first two questions answered before I can be 'okay' with this nerf, though. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6801	Posted - 2014.09.09 14:10:00 - [5] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Will the Thale's continue to work along the lines of the Garden Variety Sniper Rifle with Charge-caliber damage, Garden Variety clip and improved zoom? As for the Charge, define "smallest clip and ammo". I don't use the TacSR now and probably will continue to not do so as lining up a headshot at relatively close range against a dropsuit zig-zagging toward me is outside of my ability. But the proposal seems to accomplish what you set out to do for the TacSR (i.e.: giving it a niche). I need those first two questions answered before I can be 'okay' with this nerf, though. Thale's will be an improved "normal" sniper rifle, with the same zoom. The Thale's zoom will be removed from the game. Charged Sniper - 3 shot clip, 15 ammo. You can call it a nerf all you want, we think it is a massive buff to headshots and the role. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

PROPHET HELLSCREAM UNSVER UNITED 8	Posted - 2014.09.09 14:21:00 - [6] - Quote Hi Rattati, 1 -¦ quoting you : "... Boosting headshot damage modifiers will reward skilled snipers, and make countersniping and heavy take-downs way more feasible. ..." personally this is the best part... 2-¦ the Tactical Sniper Rifle - Increased ROF, clip size and ammo, direct damage with the damage increased... is a good change for some maps! 3-¦ and sad... the use of the charged will keep hurting my head... or mute tv ! ps: whats the look of the reticule based on Plasma cannon...? Hobby: Headshot on cloaked units
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1067	Posted - 2014.09.09 14:21:00 - [7] - Quote Does the charge have the actual charge-up game mechanic still? Dust/Eve transfers

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6806	Posted - 2014.09.09 14:23:00 - [8] - Quote PROPHET HELLSCREAM wrote: Hi Rattati, 1 -¦ quoting you : "... Boosting headshot damage modifiers will reward skilled snipers, and make countersniping and heavy take-downs way more feasible. ..." personally this is the best part... 2-¦ the Tactical Sniper Rifle - Increased ROF, clip size and ammo, direct damage with the damage increased... is a good change for some maps! 3-¦ and sad... the use of the charged will keep hurting my head... or mute tv ! ps: whats the look of the reticule based on Plasma cannon...? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=172372&find=unread the third picture in the link above, I love it and so do a lot of snipers. It solves the problem of the dot being obscured by the target by having the two horizontal wings, and the bottom vertical line. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6806	Posted - 2014.09.09 14:24:00 - [9] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Does the charge have the actual charge-up game mechanic still? Yes, no behaviour changes except for new reticules and reduction of Thale's zoom. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2093	Posted - 2014.09.09 14:30:00 - [10] - Quote Will the Tac be functioning as a DMR? Please say the Tac will function as a DMR, I miss groundsniping "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire

MrShooter01 Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 816	Posted - 2014.09.09 14:45:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thale's will be an improved "normal" sniper rifle, with the same zoom. The Thale's zoom will be removed from the game. I love you The days of seeing an enemy thale's in a pub match all but requiring me to do a suicide run with a dropship in the enemy redline are numbered, soon I can actually counter-snipe them with a normal sniper Speaking of, the rest of the changes will encourage me to use my level 5 sniping skill for the first time in months, so that's pretty cool too looking forward to making use of these new headshot multipliers looking slightly less forward to having my other fits killed by an abundance of snipers but oh well the cost of progress
a brackers Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 44	Posted - 2014.09.09 15:20:00 - [12] - Quote I might finally be able to at least fly a Dropship to within 200m now within the 20 seconds :) Proto dropship pilot The sandbox shooter

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6813	Posted - 2014.09.09 15:38:00 - [13] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Will the Tac be functioning as a DMR? Please say the Tac will function as a DMR, I miss groundsniping I think it may evolve into that, let's see how this urban tactical sniper works damage wise, and then we can look at sway and "stand and shoot". Soraya actually reprimanded me in skype just now, "it's not stand and shoot, just crouch and shoot" :) "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3951	Posted - 2014.09.09 15:52:00 - [14] - Quote I think this is a good start, but I think more adjustments will be needed before snipers are in a balanced place. I would rather you take this slow and steady approach than end up with greater imbalance however. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2095	Posted - 2014.09.09 15:54:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Will the Tac be functioning as a DMR? Please say the Tac will function as a DMR, I miss groundsniping I think it may evolve into that, let's see how this urban tactical sniper works damage wise, and then we can look at sway and "stand and shoot". Soraya actually reprimanded me in skype just now, "it's not stand and shoot, just crouch and shoot" :) I haven't groundsniped since I had an HM90, I want to so bad it isn't even funny but it has never really been a serious option in Dust. I hope you are right, I hope it does evolve into what I remember being so fun. I can see it now, groundsniping logi, keeping my squad up and reddots at a distance. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1648	Posted - 2014.09.09 15:57:00 - [16] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: I think this is a good start, but I think more adjustments will be needed before snipers are in a balanced place. I would rather you take this slow and steady approach than end up with greater imbalance however. We fully intend to take it slow and steady. This the first balance pass that snipers have had since the launch of the game so we want to get it right. CPM 1 member CEO of DUST University Vist dustcpm.com
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1038	Posted - 2014.09.09 16:03:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thale's will be an improved "normal" sniper rifle, with the same zoom. The Thale's zoom will be removed from the game. Charged Sniper - 3 shot clip, 15 ammo. You can call it a nerf all you want, we think it is a massive buff to headshots and the role. ...15 ammo. "Let's make sure people HAVE to skill the extra ammo capacity skill to 5, it'll be fun!" Not terribly pleased with that... reducing the clip to 3 is a pretty big hit in itself, and if you're making us really rely on headshots, considering that those of us who take pains to keep our position concealed rely on the compact hive with its smaller visible dome of effect... you're a sadist. What's the damage going to be? Unchanged? For that matter, what's the damage of the Thale's going to be? Is it changing? 400m is tolerable... I will admit that less than 20% of my kills with the Charge (my SR of choice, given that I haven't had a Thale's drop in almost two months and have lost all 21 of the rifles I ever had - because snipers DO get killed, frequently) are beyond 500m. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Tyjus Vacca The United Socialist Liberation Front 267	Posted - 2014.09.09 16:08:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All right, this may get interesting. First let me thank the CPM, Barbershop, dedicated snipers and Iron Wolf Saber for a lot of feedback and information gathering. In the end, it's going to be CCP, that makes the most informed decision we can, so please don't blame them for the bad things, and pat them on the back for the good things. The intent is to bring snipers closer to the battle, and specifically not have to rely on countersniping a Thale's with a Thale's. Boosting headshot damage modifiers will reward skilled snipers, and make countersniping and heavy take-downs way more feasible. We think these are moderate proposals and are intended to be buffs to the role, but will also increase the risk of the sniper, and that is intended. We want there to be a proper range progression from novaknife to sniper rifle, and a place on the battle field for each range bracket. Now to the design goals/intent. Please try to frame your feedback so it is relative to these roles. Sniper Rifle - the Suppressor, enough firepower to line up enough bodyshots to suppress, kill stragglers and countersnipe Highest range, medium clip and medium ammo, sustainable dps High damage - High headshot modifier 300% (from 196%) New Effective range - 450 Reticule - New Sniper reticule based on Plasma cannon Charged Sniper Rifle - the Executioner, one shot-one kill type Trades range and ROF for alpha damage, high headshot multiplier and highest native damage, smallest clip and ammo High damage - Very high headshot modifier 350% (from 196%) New Effective Range - 400 Reticule - New Sniper reticule based on Plasma cannon Tactical Sniper Rifle - the Rifleman, stand and shoot, and has enough ROF and damage output to effectively take down approaching enemies. (basically super TAR) High damage - high headshot modifier - 250% (from 196%) Main change - Increased ROF, clip size and ammo, direct damage New Effective Range - 350 Reticule - the current circle to allow shorter range engagements and snap shots Keeping all ranges well out of Forge gun ranges and retaining enough range to be effective. The Thale's zoom and range will be adjusted properly to fit thes design goals, ie. the zoom will be adapted and the current zoom reduced. We do not want to touch stability, sway, nor accuracy in this pass, so please refrain from posting such comments. Please try to keep this civil and constructive, and to the point. There will be no ranting tolerated here, we have had enough in recent threads. Talk about the points, what we missed, what we did right and do not project what you think other people or CCP know or think about snipers. Just your personal feedback. Thanks! wow great job Rattati best change Ive seen so far ...... I genuinely Impressed, these changes not only balance sniper rifles with other light weapon ,but you have gone as far as to balance the variants with each other +1 so commandos are good now O_o
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3352	Posted - 2014.09.09 16:19:00 - [19] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: What's the damage going to be? Unchanged? For that matter, what's the damage of the Thale's going to be? Is it changing? Base damage values aren't listed as changing in this post. Personally, I feel base damage is too low, and needs a buff upwards, but I think the concept of not buffing too much too fast will win out here. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Since hotfixes are somewhat frequent, balance passes don't need to be 'one and done' like they used to be. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Vesta Opalus Kang Lo Holding 26	Posted - 2014.09.09 16:46:00 - [20] - Quote I like the proposed changes, however Im not sure you will ever see a sniper getting close (without intentionally yoloing himself into it) until you change sway. Currently if Im at (for example) 100-150 meters or so, which is a pretty long engagement range for a sniper that isnt sitting on the redline or on some obscure hill, I have about 5 seconds or so at best before someone Im engaging can move into effective range and kick my ass. To add to that, to fire my weapon with any kind of accuracy, I have to stop my character, kneel down onto the ground, and zoom into ADS, and stand dead still for those 3-5 seconds + however long it takes me to kill or give up on killing my target. This means that if the guy Im shooting at (or anyone around me when I do my preshot routine) sees me, Im screwed big time. Until the pre-fire routine is removed or drastically reduced, snipers will never want to enter the battlefield proper, because its just stupid to do so. I know you dont intend to touch sway/stability/etc with this hotfix, but in the future just consider the above. And consider maybe changing the tactical into a very low sway rifle so we can actually use it with tactical movements to get a quick kill and move on, because the biggest achilles heel of a sniper in close range is that requirement to stop, drop, and die just to get an accurate shot off.

Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1039	Posted - 2014.09.09 16:48:00 - [21] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: ...15 ammo. "Let's make sure people HAVE to skill the extra ammo capacity skill to 5, it'll be fun!" Not terribly pleased with that... This got me thinking. I know we've got the nanohives, and that's well and good, but consider also giving us a low-slot module to increase ammo carried. Think along the lines of the modules for Vehicle ammo storage. Low slots modules for Light, Heavy, and Sidearm ammo capacity. Tie it to the Handheld Weapon Upgrades skill. Those of us who're sniping to be snipers, and not to be "safe" in heavily tanked suits, will run an ammo storage module in our low(s) and be even less tanky/more easy to kill than we already were. I'm not even trolling. I've got the ammo capacity skill at only one or two for the SR, whatever skill level gives the current Charge SR 5 in the clip and 21 in reserve. I'd sacrifice a module slot to get that 15 back up to the 21 I have now. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Finn Colman Immortal Guides 43	Posted - 2014.09.09 16:51:00 - [22] - Quote I haven't done much sniping since I started playing Dust (however it is the only weapon in which I have specialized, partially due to my poor management of skill points.) But I do still pull out my Sniper Rifle now and then. I think these changes are definitely for the better of snipers, counter-snipers, and non-snipers. I'll be really happy to finally do more than just suppress a heavy suit sniper.
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1039	Posted - 2014.09.09 16:56:00 - [23] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: What's the damage going to be? Unchanged? For that matter, what's the damage of the Thale's going to be? Is it changing? Base damage values aren't listed as changing in this post. Personally, I feel base damage is too low, and needs a buff upwards, but I think the concept of not buffing too much too fast will win out here. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Since hotfixes are somewhat frequent, balance passes don't need to be 'one and done' like they used to be. I'm reading it the same way, just you know... they're drastically changing 33-40% of my content. I want to know, for sure, just how bad it's going to be. I like getting that occasional kill at 594m. @Rattati: what's the Thale's zoom going to end up being? 500, I hope. It should maintain the longest zoom of all the rifles. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4165	Posted - 2014.09.09 17:05:00 - [24] - Quote As the author of the definitive Sniper Guides, I have read these proposed changes over very carefully, and I feel these changes when taken as a whole will put snipers in a much better place than they are now, without making them OP. I am happy to see the Tactical Sniper rifle gain a place on the battlefield. The very limited clip size had made it virtually useless, particularly with HP creep. Increasing the Clip size and rate of fire will make this the ultimate Marksman rifle. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4165	Posted - 2014.09.09 17:10:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Will the Tac be functioning as a DMR? Please say the Tac will function as a DMR, I miss groundsniping I think it may evolve into that, let's see how this urban tactical sniper works damage wise, and then we can look at sway and "stand and shoot". Soraya actually reprimanded me in skype just now, "it's not stand and shoot, just crouch and shoot" :) I used to do GÇ£Stand and ShootGÇ¥ short range sniping. With Operation 5 the sway is not that bad and can be compensated for at short range. With Op 5 you really only have to crouch when shooting more than 200m. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3048	Posted - 2014.09.09 17:13:00 - [26] - Quote Drop suit prices should be another parameter when balancing these weapons. For example I'm running around in my proto suit just doing my thing and get one shotted by some militia sniper rifle. This would cause a number of things if not balance properly, brick tanking proto suits more eHP chasing, more heavy spam, forum cries for nerfs, and very stale game play. I understand the one shot factor ect, but it's very hard to balance when your running around a 150k+ suit and get demolished by a 10k suit from across the map. So basically drop suit prices really need to be looked at to allow more freedom in adding these one shot kill weapons, or reevaluate how isk is distributed in matches so that your risk, and effort is rewarded fairly. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Moonracer2000 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 827	Posted - 2014.09.09 17:17:00 - [27] - Quote With the TacSR, would it make sense to make that weapon more viable for body shots? It could have the highest base damage but a comparatively low headshot bonus to balance that out? Since it is for shorter range engagements it would make sense that it would be designed for reflex shots more so than precision.
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1039	Posted - 2014.09.09 17:19:00 - [28] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Drop suit prices should be another parameter when balancing these weapons. For example I'm running around in my proto suit just doing my thing and get one shotted by some militia sniper rifle. This would cause a number of things if not balance properly, brick tanking proto suits more eHP chasing, more heavy spam, forum cries for nerfs, and very stale game play. I understand the one shot factor ect, but it's very hard to balance when your running around a 150k+ suit and get demolished by a 10k suit from across the map. So basically drop suit prices really need to be looked at to allow more freedom in adding these one shot kill weapons, or reevaluate how isk is distributed in matches so that your risk, and effort is rewarded fairly. You have fitting slots. Put some tank in them. Your qq has been duly noted. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4165	Posted - 2014.09.09 17:19:00 - [29] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Thale's will be an improved "normal" sniper rifle, with the same zoom. The Thale's zoom will be removed from the game. Charged Sniper - 3 shot clip, 15 ammo. You can call it a nerf all you want, we think it is a massive buff to headshots and the role. ...15 ammo. "Let's make sure people HAVE to skill the extra ammo capacity skill to 5, it'll be fun!" Not terribly pleased with that... Potential for 15 kills before you need to replenish your ammo, is actually about the same as the Burst HMG. (To put it in perspective.) Unless you snipe in a Sentinel suit with no Nano Hive, it should not be a huge problem. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 196	Posted - 2014.09.09 17:20:00 - [30] - Quote Not a sniper but the thought of the tactical becoming a DMR would be awesome. I think the Tac sniper clip should contain 10 rounds at least if its doing short range work but enough to make 2-3 kill per clip if accurate. It may even need a bit aim assist since aiming with controller at short range means having to adjust for movement, then again im not a sniper. The sway would need to be fixed but we will see how it works currently. I see the charged would become the one-shot kill-shot bolt-action rifle because of the High Alpha but slow RoF. Im kinda concerned about the performance of a charged sniper shot to the body at proto with stacked DMG mods. If it does insane damage then the charge needs to have a mandatory charge cycle to prevent quick follow up shots. if the main focus of the charge is high alpha damage, else we will see a huge hard hit charge and then a tenth of a second later the quick follow up shot.(less damaging sure...but probably enough to finish most not all suits.......THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. One charge shot to the head....OK Two hard hits with a long 5-10 second interval between.....OK BUT NOT a big hit then suddenly a quick hit from that same rifle....NOT OK Otherwise I look forward to the Future QQ of snipers as they join the cloak scout shotgun shenanigans we loath so much ATM. No longer will i import sniper tears from the red-line. I anticipate the taste of Fresh sniper QQ right from the source! 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)

BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3049	Posted - 2014.09.09 17:25:00 - [31] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Drop suit prices should be another parameter when balancing these weapons. For example I'm running around in my proto suit just doing my thing and get one shotted by some militia sniper rifle. This would cause a number of things if not balance properly, brick tanking proto suits more eHP chasing, more heavy spam, forum cries for nerfs, and very stale game play. I understand the one shot factor ect, but it's very hard to balance when your running around a 150k+ suit and get demolished by a 10k suit from across the map. So basically drop suit prices really need to be looked at to allow more freedom in adding these one shot kill weapons, or reevaluate how isk is distributed in matches so that your risk, and effort is rewarded fairly. You have fitting slots. Put some tank in them. Your qq has been duly noted. In which I said this promotes more eHP chasing I appreciate you proving my point supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2805	Posted - 2014.09.09 17:38:00 - [32] - Quote All the changes seem to be good, but one. The zoom level. The only SR with a actual sniper rifle zoom level was the Thale. Even if i like the changes and i really want more active snipers, the zoom level is needed, for physical reasons (not of the game), my eyes, i can't see a damn thing with the current zoom level. Also the game from sniper eyes is flat, it's 2D, only the Thale have enough zoom to see 3D shaped objects. Please do it for our eyes, increase the zoom. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1040	Posted - 2014.09.09 17:46:00 - [33] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: ...15 ammo. "Let's make sure people HAVE to skill the extra ammo capacity skill to 5, it'll be fun!" Not terribly pleased with that... Potential for 15 kills before you need to replenish your ammo, is actually about the same as the Burst HMG. (To put it in perspective.) Unless you snipe in a Sentinel suit with no Nano Hive, it should not be a huge problem. I snipe in the Squidmando ck.0 with a compact (for the smaller visible bloom, as previously stated, because I don't want every Tom, **** and Mary to see my nanohive from all the way across the map). As you know, the compact offers a limited replenishment resource. With lag offering me short-burst teleporting targets (of all frame sizes), faulty hit detection frequently giving me the blue shield shimmer of hits with zero damage and now the increased emphasis on headshots - I'm going to have more misses than I already do, I'm sure. Now that a headshot will actually be reliable, of course I'm going to attempt them much more often. i don't care how many guides you write, mate, you're not hitting every headshot you attempt, either. And if you're setting up with overwatch over a high-traffic area, 18 total shots are going to be gone pretty quickly. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4166	Posted - 2014.09.09 17:46:00 - [34] - Quote Moonracer2000 wrote: With the TacSR, would it make sense to make that weapon more viable for body shots? It could have the highest base damage but a comparatively low headshot bonus to balance that out? Since it is for shorter range engagements it would make sense that it would be designed for reflex shots more so than precision. They are increasing rate of fire, which increases potential DPS for the Tac SR. If they are looking the other way, take the time for a head shot, but if they are charging toward your, pump rounds into their chest as fast as it will fire. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1040	Posted - 2014.09.09 17:51:00 - [35] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: You have fitting slots. Put some tank in them. Your qq has been duly noted. In which I said this promotes more eHP chasing I appreciate you proving my point Everything CCP does promotes eHP chasing. Even the cloak nerf didn't stop brick tanking scouts. I'm still headshotting scouts with the Charge SR and seeing them survive to bunny hop into cover because they're stacking over 700 HP. Now Assaults are exceeding 1k HP as well as logis and obviously heavies. A headshot from 300+ meters isn't easy. It should be a kill. A bodyshot not being a kill is reasonable on everything except light/scout frames (but, reasonable or not, it isn't a kill and CCP isn't going to make it so, so whatever). We're getting our range slashed. You wanna survive our rifle, stack HP. You wanna be an EWAR king, fit EWAR. Gonna have to choose. I suggest you make some fits for both eventualities and if you see an enemy sniper in the killfeed, choose your fit accordingly. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4167	Posted - 2014.09.09 18:12:00 - [36] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: What's the damage going to be? Unchanged? For that matter, what's the damage of the Thale's going to be? Is it changing? Base damage values aren't listed as changing in this post. Personally, I feel base damage is too low, and needs a buff upwards, but I think the concept of not buffing too much too fast will win out here. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Since hotfixes are somewhat frequent, balance passes don't need to be 'one and done' like they used to be. Agreed. It is better to see how the head shot bonus buff, and the increased rate of fire on the Tac SR pan out first. Then we will have a better idea of how much base damage needs to be buffed in Echo. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4167	Posted - 2014.09.09 18:16:00 - [37] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: I like the proposed changes, however Im not sure you will ever see a sniper getting close (without intentionally yoloing himself into it) until you change sway. Currently if Im at (for example) 100-150 meters or so, which is a pretty long engagement range for a sniper that isnt sitting on the redline or on some obscure hill, I have about 5 seconds or so at best before someone Im engaging can move into effective range and kick my ass. To add to that, to fire my weapon with any kind of accuracy, I have to stop my character, kneel down onto the ground, and zoom into ADS, and stand dead still for those 3-5 seconds + however long it takes me to kill or give up on killing my target. This means that if the guy Im shooting at (or anyone around me when I do my preshot routine) sees me, Im screwed big time. Until the pre-fire routine is removed or drastically reduced, snipers will never want to enter the battlefield proper, because its just stupid to do so. I know you dont intend to touch sway/stability/etc with this hotfix, but in the future just consider the above. And consider maybe changing the tactical into a very low sway rifle so we can actually use it with tactical movements to get a quick kill and move on, because the biggest achilles heel of a sniper in close range is that requirement to stop, drop, and die just to get an accurate shot off. I used to do this in Chromosome and I even wrote a Guide on it. Correct me if I am wrong, but I donGÇÖt believe the saw has changed since Chromosome. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4167	Posted - 2014.09.09 18:28:00 - [38] - Quote Chief-Shotty wrote: If it does insane damage then the charge needs to have a mandatory charge cycle to prevent quick follow up shots. if the main focus of the charge is high alpha damage, else we will see a huge hard hit charge and then a tenth of a second later the quick follow up shot.(less damaging sure...but probably enough to finish most not all suits.......THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. Last time I used the Charged Sniper Rifle it would not fire unless it was charged at least two thirds of the way to full. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
S-PANZA Expert Intervention Caldari State 61	Posted - 2014.09.09 18:29:00 - [39] - Quote Some will like the reduction in range but Im sure it wont be snipers. I dont foresee snipers coming down from the hills .Youve only managed to reduced the amount of targets a sniper has and considerably weakened the ability to counter snipe by reducing range. Snipers arent interested in moving closer to the battlefield. The longer range shots is what makes a sniper a sniper. I know this will fall on deaf ears and the range reduction is already set in stone but thats a snipers best asset...the long head shot. On a different note... why do posters that claim not to snipe feel compelled to propose changes for a class they dont use.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4167	Posted - 2014.09.09 18:30:00 - [40] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Drop suit prices should be another parameter when balancing these weapons. For example I'm running around in my proto suit just doing my thing and get one shotted by some militia sniper rifle. This would cause a number of things if not balance properly, brick tanking proto suits more eHP chasing, more heavy spam, forum cries for nerfs, and very stale game play. I understand the one shot factor ect, but it's very hard to balance when your running around a 150k+ suit and get demolished by a 10k suit from across the map. So basically drop suit prices really need to be looked at to allow more freedom in adding these one shot kill weapons, or reevaluate how isk is distributed in matches so that your risk, and effort is rewarded fairly. You have fitting slots. Put some tank in them. Your qq has been duly noted. In which I said this promotes more eHP chasing I appreciate you proving my point Or you could just avoid standing still in your expensive Proto Suit. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4167	Posted - 2014.09.09 18:33:00 - [41] - Quote shaman oga wrote: All the changes seem to be good, but one. The zoom level. The only SR with a actual sniper rifle zoom level was the Thale. Even if i like the changes and i really want more active snipers, the zoom level is needed, for physical reasons (not of the game), my eyes, i can't see a damn thing with the current zoom level. Also the game from sniper eyes is flat, it's 2D, only the Thale have enough zoom to see 3D shaped objects. Please do it for our eyes, increase the zoom. In all my time Sniping I never had a Thale drop for me. Ignorance is bliss. I will not know what I am missing. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4167	Posted - 2014.09.09 18:44:00 - [42] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: ...15 ammo. "Let's make sure people HAVE to skill the extra ammo capacity skill to 5, it'll be fun!" Not terribly pleased with that... Potential for 15 kills before you need to replenish your ammo, is actually about the same as the Burst HMG. (To put it in perspective.) Unless you snipe in a Sentinel suit with no Nano Hive, it should not be a huge problem. I snipe in the Squidmando ck.0 with a compact (for the smaller visible bloom, as previously stated, because I don't want every Tom, **** and Mary to see my nanohive from all the way across the map). As you know, the compact offers a limited replenishment resource. With lag offering me short-burst teleporting targets (of all frame sizes), faulty hit detection frequently giving me the blue shield shimmer of hits with zero damage and now the increased emphasis on headshots - I'm going to have more misses than I already do, I'm sure. Now that a headshot will actually be reliable, of course I'm going to attempt them much more often. i don't care how many guides you write, mate, you're not hitting every headshot you attempt, either. And if you're setting up with overwatch over a high-traffic area, 18 total shots are going to be gone pretty quickly. Yeah, most people donGÇÖt get 15 kills before having to find more ammo with the Burst HMG either. Potential kills and Expected kills are not the same thing. When I sniped I used a standard NanoHive much of the time, unless I had fitting issues, but I placed it about 20m behind my position behind a ridge or wall so it would not give away my position. Are you saying you expect to be able to sit in the same spot for the entire game without moving? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4167	Posted - 2014.09.09 18:52:00 - [43] - Quote S-PANZA wrote: Some will like the reduction in range but Im sure it wont be snipers. I dont foresee snipers coming down from the hills .Youve only managed to reduced the amount of targets a sniper has and considerably weakened the ability to counter snipe by reducing range. I agree that no Sniper is going to particularly like the range nerf, but you have to look at it as something you are giving up in exchange for the increased headshot bonus and other changes. Besides, when people QQ about the Sniper buffs you can wave the range nerf at them to shut them up. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
George Moros RestlessSpirits 413	Posted - 2014.09.09 19:40:00 - [44] - Quote The proposed changes seem interesting. However, I will withhold any further judgment until I see definite numbers (especially base rifle damage). From the proposed ranges it seems that the days of snipers sitting still in one spot for most of the match are over. With regard to that, here are my proposals / concerns: 1. I really hope that when HF delta hits TQ snipers will be able to be effective without the explicit need for proto sniper rifles and stacked complex damage mods. If they're forced to get closer, they should be able to use cheaper fits and still be good. 2. As I already mentioned, since sitting still in one place will not be a good tactic anymore, I propose the following change (if applicable): Scope sway is no longer applied when crouched, and is only present when standing, behaving in the same fashion the current sway is now while crouched. This will allow the sniper's better mobility. without the worry of the infamous "quickscoping". Pulvereus ergo queritor.
Appia Vibbia 3754	Posted - 2014.09.09 19:48:00 - [45] - Quote 1) Increased headshot values aren't enough to change the dynamic that requires snipers to stack damage mods to have an effective weapon. Every other weapon (less Swarms, Ion Pistol, and Flaylock Pistol) are all viable in their own rights and can be used effectively against people with higher level of SP investment than them. With post proposal values, the Sniper Rifle still needs 2 complex damage mods and proficiency 5 to carry any weight as a threat. 2) I have a BPO LAV and an Ishukone Assault Forge Gun. This is far superior combo than a worthless Tac SR with 350m range S-PANZA wrote: Some will like the reduction in range but Im sure it wont be snipers. I dont foresee snipers coming down from the hills .Youve only managed to reduced the amount of targets a sniper has and considerably weakened the ability to counter snipe by reducing range. Snipers arent interested in moving closer to the battlefield. The longer range shots is what makes a sniper a sniper. I know this will fall on deaf ears and the range reduction is already set in stone but thats a snipers best asset...the long head shot. This needed to be stressed. Quote: On a different note... why do posters that claim not to snipe feel compelled to propose changes for a class they dont use. Because it's an underused weapon, looking for opinions from people that don't use it and seeing what changes they would like to see for them to become interested in the weapon are important. However, most people know this and end up cleverly disguising their malcontent for whatever the subject is at hand and say thing that make other believe that certain changes would get them to use it. Taken from Jathniel's thread [Inquiry] Sniper Rifles Zatara Rought wrote: I actually watched symbiotic forks recent videos and I paid close attention to the ranges he used his rifle from. -Very- rarely did he go outside 400 meters..even when he was using a sniper from atop the MCC he was mostly shooting inside 300. Perhaps only 10% of my shots are from outside 400m, and most maps I am quite safe in the redline shooting targets under 350m. His MCC sniping video was on Manus Peak - Domination, the area of play on that map is under 300m^2. I'd be impressed by anyone using a Sniper Rifle that got a kill over 300m on that map & mode combo. I'm capable of taking out the majority of redline snipers there with the Forge Gun. I've got proficiency 4 in Forge Guns and I always play in a squad. I either get a constant resupply of ammo because I've asked someone beforehand or I'm next to an uplink and ask for someone to drop me a hive after their next death. Or I just run around with Vipers and Blood Raider Sagas. Unlike Symb, the only time I snipe from within 400m is when I'm squad'ing with him. If someone is within 300m I'm going to be more effective sniping with my Ishukone Assault Forge Gun. -Something I really like to stress, I am sniping infantry with the assault variant- Just yesterday a squadmate pulled out a Thale's to clear infantry off a high platform; I re-positioned myself with my forge gun and started killing people, with direct hits mind you, and at the end of the game I had more kills than him. WP too, because I could chase off any dropships that wanted to take me off my perch. From my point of view, it's easier to hit someone with the Assault Forge Gun than it is to get a headshot with a Sniper Rifle. Ignoring the fact that the reticle change will stop the majority of the false positives, hit detection is still a huge issue for the weapon. Reducing the range of the sniper rifles just made it a hell of a lot easier to drive around in an free LAV counter-sniping people with a forge gun, something guaranteed to kill any sniper in 1 hit. All in all, sounds like you've never used the sniper rifle yourself and only pay attention to people whining about the weapon, feeling the need to nerf an under perfroming weapon because of complaints and throwing an insignificant change as "compensation." Personal Theme Song
Appia Vibbia 3756	Posted - 2014.09.09 20:32:00 - [46] - Quote Additionally, I like creating more differences between the variants with different ranges and headshot multipliers, but without the addition of new maps or editing existing ones the Idea of changing the Tactical Sniper Rifle into what people are calling a "DMR" is better taken by the Scrambler Rifle because of the terrain advantages limiting sniping from the ground and the lack of defense a sniper rifle has from within optimal range of one of the 4 main rifles Personal Theme Song
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1045	Posted - 2014.09.09 20:34:00 - [47] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Yeah, most people donGÇÖt get 15 kills before having to find more ammo with the Burst HMG either. Potential kills and Expected kills are not the same thing. When I sniped I used a standard NanoHive much of the time, unless I had fitting issues, but I placed it about 20m behind my position behind a ridge or wall so it would not give away my position. Are you saying you expect to be able to sit in the same spot for the entire game without moving? You seem to have read me as saying I'm sitting on top of my compact. On Line Harvest, I have sat between the humps on top of Charlie, looked toward the south end of the map at the ridge in the enemy red line, and seen the huge bloom of a nanohive. I look through the scope and find that this hive is behind the ridge. I should not be able to see it at all. Yet, when not aiming through the scope, I see it plain as day. Remarking this as an odd rendering glitch, I went back to the scope and within moments found my target, a sniper in a gk.0 Logi something like 40m from the nanohive. I use compacts because I don't want to be caught out like that by an enemy sniper, FGer, Rail Tank or Assault Dropship. I'm sure you can't be bothered to go looking through my post history, but plenty of times I have explained my typical sniping match. Am I less mobile since Mathppia talked me into the Squidmando? Yes. Am I absolutely stationary? Ask any squad I've been in where the enemy has deployed a Thale's or Charge. As soon as I'm aware of the enemy sniper, I start hunting him. Which means moving if I can't find him from my position. I will also move when I've killed 5 or 6 people and my areas of observation suddenly seem to have much less traffic (i.e., redberries figure out not to go that way). Of course, there are small maps where you don't have many choices of where to be. On the larger maps, I'm pretty mobile (with the exception of the obelisk bases on the bridge map that isn't Border Gulch, I set up shop on one of those and unless I'm countered my only movement is to move around on the obelisk's base platform depending on where the targets are accessible). You're not talking to a newbro here, Fox. Stow your condescension, k? EDIT: Also, a Burst HMG has a logi following him around and spamming nanohives at him. Can I get a logi to spam compacts at me all match? I doubt it. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1047	Posted - 2014.09.09 20:46:00 - [48] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Also, as an aside, some jerk that throws an uplink on a tower and then 6-8 people spawning up there with sniper rifles is far more annoying than redline snipers. The number of people sniping from the redline is usually insignificant or came from already being forced back to their red-line spawns. Uplink + tower is just a guaranteed way to lose the match. Gods, so much this. When I was a newbro sniper, I used to think "Okay, I'll fly my Viper up there and put myself an uplink in case I get killed, I can get right back up there. Quickly I learned two things: 1.) If I get killed, and spawn back to the same spot, I'm obviously going to get killed again because the enemy knows I'm there. I've killed many snipers multiple times because they go back to the same spot. 2.) If the match starts going poorly, all of the blueberries will spawn up there rather than try to turn it around. Instead of one or two snipers, now there are 10 and I have to jump down, swap out to my Minja and try to singlehandedly win the match by hacking all the things and hoping my 20 deaths in the process don't get us cloned. I've only successfully won this way twice. I finished with over 2900 WP both of those occasions with the next best on my team under 1k WP. Embarrassing for the other side, despite my K/D of 0.0X for the match. So yeah, I don't put uplinks anywhere near where I'm sniping anymore. If I get killed, the spot is compromised (for that match). And if blueberries wanna get up there and snipe with me, they gotta figure it out for themselves, they won't be using my link to do it. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 446	Posted - 2014.09.09 20:51:00 - [49] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All right, this may get interesting. First let me thank the CPM, Barbershop, dedicated snipers and Iron Wolf Saber for a lot of feedback and information gathering. In the end, it's going to be CCP, that makes the most informed decision we can, so please don't blame them for the bad things, and pat them on the back for the good things. The intent is to bring snipers closer to the battle, and specifically not have to rely on countersniping a Thale's with a Thale's. Boosting headshot damage modifiers will reward skilled snipers, and make countersniping and heavy take-downs way more feasible. We think these are moderate proposals and are intended to be buffs to the role, but will also increase the risk of the sniper, and that is intended. We want there to be a proper range progression from novaknife to sniper rifle, and a place on the battle field for each range bracket. Now to the design goals/intent. Please try to frame your feedback so it is relative to these roles. Sniper Rifle - the Suppressor, enough firepower to line up enough bodyshots to suppress, kill stragglers and countersnipe Highest range, medium clip and medium ammo, sustainable dps High damage - High headshot modifier 300% (from 196%) New Effective range - 450 Reticule - New Sniper reticule based on Plasma cannon Charged Sniper Rifle - the Executioner, one shot-one kill type Trades range and ROF for alpha damage, high headshot multiplier and highest native damage, smallest clip and ammo High damage - Very high headshot modifier 350% (from 196%) New Effective Range - 400 Reticule - New Sniper reticule based on Plasma cannon Tactical Sniper Rifle - the Rifleman, stand and shoot, and has enough ROF and damage output to effectively take down approaching enemies. (basically super TAR) High damage - high headshot modifier - 250% (from 196%) Main change - Increased ROF, clip size and ammo, direct damage New Effective Range - 350 Reticule - the current circle to allow shorter range engagements and snap shots Keeping all ranges well out of Forge gun ranges and retaining enough range to be effective. The Thale's zoom and range will be adjusted properly to fit thes design goals, ie. the zoom will be adapted and the current zoom reduced. We do not want to touch stability, sway, nor accuracy in this pass, so please refrain from posting such comments. Please try to keep this civil and constructive, and to the point. There will be no ranting tolerated here, we have had enough in recent threads. Talk about the points, what we missed, what we did right and do not project what you think other people or CCP know or think about snipers. Just your personal feedback. Thanks! i'm impressed. thank you for not going crazy with the range nerfs. liking the new tactical approach for the tac rifles, i thought they should've been that set up all along. but the sway will need to end faster, maybe not go altogether but certainly be shorter. (probably in future hfs) Really not sure about the charge rifle changes (only the bad ones) it's going to have: less rate of fire. less bullets in clip less ammo reserves less range. compared to the other rifles. the only bonus it gains is higher damage. i can see it becoming unusable for extended periods due to the less range, all other snipers will be able to sit just outside of your range and fire at will without fear of being killed by you. the ammo isn't a huge problem Although it does mean that your maximum ammo in a round will be 45 in a calmando... it was 81. it's almost 50% (assuming a double ammo hive) However could you PLEASE take a look at the sniper tree ammo skill. because this will make that skill even worse. it's now a % of 15!! and also keeping the charge time whilst making it less range than the others.. means that in the "sniper duels" that occur the other sniper can fire twice before your second shot. Is this a case of trying to push it out of pubs? if so it could work due to the not taking snipers into pc bit (you would need to become a real threat before the other team get a sniper out) Any thoughts on increasing sniper usefulness? i.e tagging, clone terminating head shots, etc loving the headshot damages. looking forward to the new ret so far, so good Overall i'm quite happy, and glad to see the gentle approach. looking forward to getting to grips with them. any news on when? "we've had enough of that on recent threads" I'll bet..
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3354	Posted - 2014.09.09 21:10:00 - [50] - Quote shaman oga wrote: All the changes seem to be good, but one. The zoom level. The only SR with a actual sniper rifle zoom level was the Thale. Even if i like the changes and i really want more active snipers, the zoom level is needed, for physical reasons (not of the game), my eyes, i can't see a damn thing with the current zoom level. Also the game from sniper eyes is flat, it's 2D, only the Thale have enough zoom to see 3D shaped objects. Please do it for our eyes, increase the zoom. The problem with the Thale's zoom level, is it allows them to very effectively operate outside the render distance of pretty much everyone. It's why Thale's users are essentially invisible, and impossible to locate and counter. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1048	Posted - 2014.09.09 21:23:00 - [51] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: shaman oga wrote: All the changes seem to be good, but one. The zoom level. The only SR with a actual sniper rifle zoom level was the Thale. Even if i like the changes and i really want more active snipers, the zoom level is needed, for physical reasons (not of the game), my eyes, i can't see a damn thing with the current zoom level. Also the game from sniper eyes is flat, it's 2D, only the Thale have enough zoom to see 3D shaped objects. Please do it for our eyes, increase the zoom. The problem with the Thale's zoom level, is it allows them to very effectively operate outside the render distance of pretty much everyone. It's why Thale's users are essentially invisible, and impossible to locate and counter. Incorrect. It's still only got a range of 600m if I'm not mistaken. I seem to recall seeing people through the scope and not getting target intel until they cross the 600m threshold. You can't use it farther than the other rifles, you can just see better. Can I get confirmation from Appia or Fox on that point? (I haven't had one in several weeks, so I may be misremembering) At any rate, Thale's users are not impossible to locate or counter. There're good sniper perches, and then there are the typical "I'm redline sniping in a xk.0 sentinel because I'm a troll and I don't want to lose a suit ever!" sniper perches. You check the idiot spots first, usually you've found your guy. If he's not there, you check the good spots. If she's not in any of those, then you start scanning the unconventional, risky areas that have a good view of where your teammate (or you) get killed. I saw a Thale's user on Ashland right out in the open on the ground north of the building across the street from Charlie, just sitting there, in plain sight with a standard nanohive like nobody could see him. Because nobody glanced in his direction at all. He was into double-digit kills before I popped him. And this was after I'd spent a good 6 minutes moving around and looking everywhere for the guy. I wish I could remember his name... mk.0 logi suit, he was using. From his spot, he had influence over Charlie (including the console), Alpha and Echo, plus the Bravo crow's nest. Brilliant and ballsy. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Necalli XIBALBA Crows Assassins 1	Posted - 2014.09.09 21:25:00 - [52] - Quote Let's see what happens
iKILLu osborne Dead Man's Game 299	Posted - 2014.09.09 21:28:00 - [53] - Quote i'm not a career sniper by any measure, howver considering the tacsr will be engaging in close ranges would it at all be possible to add a hipfire crosshair for it alone so that scouts (what sniper rifle was intended for) can have a fighting chance against a heavy that manages to close the distance between them? "yeah i fought the redline it took it only 13 seconds....." fought scotty too but something went wrong
sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 531	Posted - 2014.09.09 21:41:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Will the Tac be functioning as a DMR? Please say the Tac will function as a DMR, I miss groundsniping I think it may evolve into that, let's see how this urban tactical sniper works damage wise, and then we can look at sway and "stand and shoot". Soraya actually reprimanded me in skype just now, "it's not stand and shoot, just crouch and shoot" :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_marksman_rifle Hi Rattati. I think you will have to adjust the stability and sway parameters for the Tactical sniper rifle if you want it to represent the urban "DMR" variant of the sniper role. The current scope mechanics will make it a frustrating experience. I think with this change the tactical sniper will give us an idea of what the minmatar precision rifle was intended to be? Overall I really like the changes. But why not adjust the base damage across tiers instead of inflating the headshot bonuses? Things might get out of hand a little with these high bonuses. Desperate attempt to get BPOs
Appia Vibbia 3759	Posted - 2014.09.09 21:49:00 - [55] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Can I get confirmation from Appia or Fox on that point? (I haven't had one in several weeks, so I may be misremembering) You aren't going to be finding those people running Solo. If you have squadmates that are engaging enemies within Line of Sight past 600m they will render. Personal Theme Song
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1050	Posted - 2014.09.09 21:57:00 - [56] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: Can I get confirmation from Appia or Fox on that point? (I haven't had one in several weeks, so I may be misremembering) You aren't going to be finding those people running Solo. If you have squadmates that are engaging enemies within Line of Sight past 600m they will render. Aye, they render beyond 600m, but can't actually be shot beyond 600m is what I'm trying to say. Is that correct? Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Necalli XIBALBA Crows Assassins 1	Posted - 2014.09.09 21:57:00 - [57] - Quote You guys love shitting on all of us don't you. It seems like the only ones who get any love around here are Scouts. I guess I'll have to become an invisible scout and start shot gunning everyone in the back of the head from now on! Thanks CCP you're the best!
Tyjus Vacca The United Socialist Liberation Front 267	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:04:00 - [58] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: 1) Increased headshot values aren't enough to change the dynamic that requires snipers to stack damage mods to have an effective weapon. Every other weapon (less Swarms, Ion Pistol, and Flaylock Pistol) are all viable in their own rights and can be used effectively against people with higher level of SP investment than them. With post proposal values, the Sniper Rifle still needs 2 complex damage mods and proficiency 5 to carry any weight as a threat. 2) I have a BPO LAV and an Ishukone Assault Forge Gun. This is far superior combo than a worthless Tac SR with 350m range S-PANZA wrote: Some will like the reduction in range but Im sure it wont be snipers. I dont foresee snipers coming down from the hills .Youve only managed to reduced the amount of targets a sniper has and considerably weakened the ability to counter snipe by reducing range. Snipers arent interested in moving closer to the battlefield. The longer range shots is what makes a sniper a sniper. I know this will fall on deaf ears and the range reduction is already set in stone but thats a snipers best asset...the long head shot. This needed to be stressed. Quote: On a different note... why do posters that claim not to snipe feel compelled to propose changes for a class they dont use. Because it's an underused weapon, looking for opinions from people that don't use it and seeing what changes they would like to see for them to become interested in the weapon are important. However, most people know this and end up cleverly disguising their malcontent for whatever the subject is at hand and say thing that make other believe that certain changes would get them to use it. Taken from Jathniel's thread [Inquiry] Sniper Rifles Zatara Rought wrote: I actually watched symbiotic forks recent videos and I paid close attention to the ranges he used his rifle from. -Very- rarely did he go outside 400 meters..even when he was using a sniper from atop the MCC he was mostly shooting inside 300. Perhaps only 10% of my shots are from outside 400m, and most maps I am quite safe in the redline shooting targets under 350m. His MCC sniping video was on Manus Peak - Domination, the area of play on that map is under 300m^2. I'd be impressed by anyone using a Sniper Rifle that got a kill over 300m on that map & mode combo. I'm capable of taking out the majority of redline snipers there with the Forge Gun. I've got proficiency 4 in Forge Guns and I always play in a squad. I either get a constant resupply of ammo because I've asked someone beforehand or I'm next to an uplink and ask for someone to drop me a hive after their next death. Or I just run around with Vipers and Blood Raider Sagas. Unlike Symb, the only time I snipe from within 400m is when I'm squad'ing with him. If someone is within 300m I'm going to be more effective sniping with my Ishukone Assault Forge Gun. -Something I really like to stress, I am sniping infantry with the assault variant- Just yesterday a squadmate pulled out a Thale's to clear infantry off a high platform; I re-positioned myself with my forge gun and started killing people, with direct hits mind you, and at the end of the game I had more kills than him. WP too, because I could chase off any dropships that wanted to take me off my perch. From my point of view, it's easier to hit someone with the Assault Forge Gun than it is to get a headshot with a Sniper Rifle. Ignoring the fact that the reticle change will stop the majority of the false positives, hit detection is still a huge issue for the weapon. Reducing the range of the sniper rifles just made it a hell of a lot easier to drive around in an free LAV counter-sniping people with a forge gun, something guaranteed to kill any sniper in 1 hit. All in all, sounds like you've never used the sniper rifle yourself and only pay attention to people whining about the weapon, feeling the need to nerf an under perfroming weapon because of complaints and throwing an insignificant change as "compensation." Also, as an aside, some jerk that throws an uplink on a tower and then 6-8 people spawning up there with sniper rifles is far more annoying than redline snipers. The number of people sniping from the redline is usually insignificant or came from already being forced back to their red-line spawns. Uplink + tower is just a guaranteed way to lose the match. appia no offense I usually agree with you on sniper related subjects , but have you done the math ?? std snipers can OHK heavies (mlt/std) and thats assuming they don't buff direct dmg...... snipers inherently have a huge advantage over forge gunners in head to head fire fights at almost all ranges and the added ability to OHK will make taking forges out easier so commandos are good now O_o
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1052	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:08:00 - [59] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: appia no offense I usually agree with you on sniper related subjects , but have you done the math ?? std snipers can OHK heavies (mlt/std) and thats assuming they don't buff direct dmg...... snipers inherently have a huge advantage over forge gunners in head to head fire fights at almost all ranges and the added ability to OHK will make taking forges out easier trollface.jpg or efg.gif? At Prof 3 with the Charge and 3 complex damage mods on a 'Neo' ck.0 commando at CalMando level 3, you don't OHK a militia heavy on a headshot - you're not even close enough to OHK for me to buy doing this at Prof 5 with CalMando 5. Where the hell are you OHK'ing heavies with the STD sniper rifle? Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Necalli XIBALBA Crows Assassins 1	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:17:00 - [60] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Tyjus Vacca wrote: appia no offense I usually agree with you on sniper related subjects , but have you done the math ?? std snipers can OHK heavies (mlt/std) and thats assuming they don't buff direct dmg...... snipers inherently have a huge advantage over forge gunners in head to head fire fights at almost all ranges and the added ability to OHK will make taking forges out easier trollface.jpg or efg.gif? At Prof 3 with the Charge and 3 complex damage mods on a 'Neo' ck.0 commando at CalMando level 3, you don't OHK a militia heavy on a headshot - you're not even close enough to OHK for me to buy doing this at Prof 5 with CalMando 5. Where the hell are you OHK'ing heavies with the STD sniper rifle? I can't even OHK a heavy with complex mods and Prof 5! Lmao

Tyjus Vacca The United Socialist Liberation Front 267	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:19:00 - [61] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: trollface.jpg or efg.gif? At Prof 3 with the Charge and 3 complex damage mods on a 'Neo' ck.0 commando at CalMando level 3, you don't OHK a militia heavy on a headshot - you're not even close enough to OHK for me to buy doing this at Prof 5 with CalMando 5. Where the hell are you OHK'ing heavies with the STD sniper rifle? plz dont make me type out the math...... just plug it in your self with the 300% head shot bonus with the armor and shield efficacies. I did assume proficency 5 and calmando bonus but the std sniper(no dmg mods) OHKs heavy frames base HP so commandos are good now O_o
Tyjus Vacca The United Socialist Liberation Front 267	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:20:00 - [62] - Quote Necalli XIBALBA wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: Tyjus Vacca wrote: appia no offense I usually agree with you on sniper related subjects , but have you done the math ?? std snipers can OHK heavies (mlt/std) and thats assuming they don't buff direct dmg...... snipers inherently have a huge advantage over forge gunners in head to head fire fights at almost all ranges and the added ability to OHK will make taking forges out easier trollface.jpg or efg.gif? At Prof 3 with the Charge and 3 complex damage mods on a 'Neo' ck.0 commando at CalMando level 3, you don't OHK a militia heavy on a headshot - you're not even close enough to OHK for me to buy doing this at Prof 5 with CalMando 5. Where the hell are you OHK'ing heavies with the STD sniper rifle? I can't even OHK a heavy with complex mods and Prof 5! Lmao are you talking about currently or after hotfix ? so commandos are good now O_o
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16390	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:21:00 - [63] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Tyjus Vacca wrote: appia no offense I usually agree with you on sniper related subjects , but have you done the math ?? std snipers can OHK heavies (mlt/std) and thats assuming they don't buff direct dmg...... snipers inherently have a huge advantage over forge gunners in head to head fire fights at almost all ranges and the added ability to OHK will make taking forges out easier trollface.jpg or efg.gif? At Prof 3 with the Charge and 3 complex damage mods on a 'Neo' ck.0 commando at CalMando level 3, you don't OHK a militia heavy on a headshot - you're not even close enough to OHK for me to buy doing this at Prof 5 with CalMando 5. Where the hell are you OHK'ing heavies with the STD sniper rifle? Under Proposed headshot damage changesand conditions you setup 3 proto damage mods, max prof, commando bonus. 1431.51 headshot damage raw before prof and armor vs shields factor 1574.70 headshot damage against armor before prof 1810.91 headshot damage against armor after prof 1288.39 headshot shield damage CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1068	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:25:00 - [64] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: On Line Harvest, I have sat between the humps on top of Charlie, looked toward the south end of the map at the ridge in the enemy red line, and seen the huge bloom of a nanohive. I look through the scope and find that this hive is behind the ridge. I should not be able to see it at all. Yet, when not aiming through the scope, I see it plain as day. Remarking this as an odd rendering glitch, I went back to the scope and within moments found my target, a sniper in a gk.0 Logi something like 40m from the nanohive. That was probably me, and those were compact nanos :( I've been on a Thales spree the last two days. Wow. The stopping power of a Thales is great (popping scouts, sure, but one-shitting a medium suit is eye opening), but the absolute best thing about the Thales is the zoom. I wouldn't even mind if it were changed to be 450m max range if the zoom were retained. Heck, the zoom is how I get more head shots :( Oh well, I guess I best use them before they get nerfed. Dust/Eve transfers
LegacyofTable 36	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:33:00 - [65] - Quote Not sure if I'm reading this correctly, but: Tactical- Best zoom (outside thales), but gets the least range. Charged- Worst zoom, but gets the 2nd best range. Just doesn't make sense to me. Unless you're changing each sniper's zoom to fit those ranges. It will definitely change sniping either way though. Kinda wish that with these changes you would give us more perches outside the redline that aren't also in easy range of forge guns considering the range of current perches/hills. Licensed Thales Hunter Total Thales taken - 21
Tyjus Vacca The United Socialist Liberation Front 267	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:38:00 - [66] - Quote LegacyofTable wrote: Not sure if I'm reading this correctly, but: Tactical- Best zoom (outside thales), but gets the least range. Charged- Worst zoom, but gets the 2nd best range. Just doesn't make sense to me. Unless you're changing each sniper's zoom to fit those ranges. It will definitely change sniping either way though. Kinda wish that with these changes you would give us more perches outside the redline that aren't also in easy range of forge guns considering the range of current perches/hills. theyre changing the zooms not that they were all that different to begin with so commandos are good now O_o
Taipaen Loose Cannon Security 23	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:41:00 - [67] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All right, this may get interesting. Tactical Sniper Rifle - the Rifleman, stand and shoot, and has enough ROF and damage output to effectively take down approaching enemies. (basically super TAR) High damage - high headshot modifier - 250% (from 196%) Main change - Increased ROF, clip size and ammo, direct damage New Effective Range - 350 Reticule - the current circle to allow shorter range engagements and snap shots As a fan of mid-range sniping, I would like to see the Tactical Sniper get some sound suppression. Perhaps bring the shot volume down to just a bit louder than the TAR. Currently, it is far to easy to find enemy snipers who are trying to be a Rifleman based on the sound of the shot alone. If I hear that loud shot ring out while I'm sneaking around, the enemy sniper will usually die of SMG poisoning in short order. Also, is it still out of the question to get a hip-fire reticule of some sort for Tactical SRs? I do not want to effectively hip fire a SR. I would just like to have some help quickly scoping in on a rapidly approaching target while dodging incoming fire.
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1054	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:47:00 - [68] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: That was probably me, and those were compact nanos :(. Nah, these nanos were normal size. No mistake, I was on one of the water cooler things, looking for him on the standard dummy spot in the red line under their MCC. When I saw this guy brazenly crouched inside the dome of his nanohive and verified his name as the Thale's sniper, I was like "are you effin kidding me? nobody's killed this guy yet!?!?" No criticism meant for that guy, or you for that matter if you snipe from that spot. It's damned ballsy. o7 Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1054	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:49:00 - [69] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: Tyjus Vacca wrote: appia no offense I usually agree with you on sniper related subjects , but have you done the math ?? std snipers can OHK heavies (mlt/std) and thats assuming they don't buff direct dmg...... snipers inherently have a huge advantage over forge gunners in head to head fire fights at almost all ranges and the added ability to OHK will make taking forges out easier trollface.jpg or efg.gif? At Prof 3 with the Charge and 3 complex damage mods on a 'Neo' ck.0 commando at CalMando level 3, you don't OHK a militia heavy on a headshot - you're not even close enough to OHK for me to buy doing this at Prof 5 with CalMando 5. Where the hell are you OHK'ing heavies with the STD sniper rifle? Under Proposed headshot damage changesand conditions you setup 3 proto damage mods, max prof, commando bonus. 1431.51 headshot damage raw before prof and armor vs shields factor 1574.70 headshot damage against armor before prof 1810.91 headshot damage against armor after prof 1288.39 headshot shield damage That's with Charge after hotfix as it stands, if I'm understanding you correctly? If so... I'll eat a 200m range nerf for the power to actually kill heavies with my Charge SR. Sure. That ammo capacity nerf is bloody draconian, though. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1054	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:53:00 - [70] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: trollface.jpg or efg.gif? At Prof 3 with the Charge and 3 complex damage mods on a 'Neo' ck.0 commando at CalMando level 3, you don't OHK a militia heavy on a headshot - you're not even close enough to OHK for me to buy doing this at Prof 5 with CalMando 5. Where the hell are you OHK'ing heavies with the STD sniper rifle? plz dont make me type out the math...... just plug it in your self with the 300% head shot bonus with the armor and shield efficacies. I did assume proficency 5 and calmando bonus but the std sniper(no dmg mods) OHKs heavy frames base HP Ah. You were talking post hotfix. I was talking current meta. Thought you were defending the nerf by saying it's OP as it is, OHKing heavies. Misunderstanding. Appia's still right and you're still wrong though Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.

Tyjus Vacca The United Socialist Liberation Front 267	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:54:00 - [71] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: Tyjus Vacca wrote: appia no offense I usually agree with you on sniper related subjects , but have you done the math ?? std snipers can OHK heavies (mlt/std) and thats assuming they don't buff direct dmg...... snipers inherently have a huge advantage over forge gunners in head to head fire fights at almost all ranges and the added ability to OHK will make taking forges out easier trollface.jpg or efg.gif? At Prof 3 with the Charge and 3 complex damage mods on a 'Neo' ck.0 commando at CalMando level 3, you don't OHK a militia heavy on a headshot - you're not even close enough to OHK for me to buy doing this at Prof 5 with CalMando 5. Where the hell are you OHK'ing heavies with the STD sniper rifle? Under Proposed headshot damage changesand conditions you setup 3 proto damage mods, max prof, commando bonus. 1431.51 headshot damage raw before prof and armor vs shields factor 1574.70 headshot damage against armor before prof 1810.91 headshot damage against armor after prof 1288.39 headshot shield damage That's with Charge after hotfix as it stands, if I'm understanding you correctly? If so... I'll eat a 200m range nerf for the power to actually kill heavies with my Charge SR. Sure. That ammo capacity nerf is bloody draconian, though. nano hives so commandos are good now O_o
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1054	Posted - 2014.09.09 23:00:00 - [72] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: nano hives Read the thread. Nanohives give away your position, promoting the use of compacts, more easily concealed behind terrain features. Compacts are also very limited. They don't give you much. We're have a meta right now where we can't OHK anything that even attempts a tank, not even a light frame with plates. We're being given a new meta where we can kill, but only with headshots. So we have to go for the headshot. So we'll miss much more frequently. So we'll run out of ammo more frequently. So our compact nanohives will be exhausted sooner. And unlike regular hives, you can only carry one at a time. So only the top 1% of snipers in the game who can consistently tag the headshot on sprinting, zigzagging and bunnyhopping targets will maintain kill numbers like what they have now while middle-ground snipers will very likely see a marked decrease. Bad snipers will probably give it up, but I guess that's the intent here anyway. Why is this so difficult for people to understand? EDIT: There's an idea, Rattati! Buff the compact nanohive, let us carry 2 instead of just 1. Maybe add an ADV variant of it that lets us carry 2. And 3 at PRO. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Ash Taiga Vortex State Empire 5	Posted - 2014.09.09 23:08:00 - [73] - Quote I don't post that much but if it's possible for you guys to check my sniper kills or favorite weapon per match you'd know i'm a 100% sniper main unless i run with my corp who i've only been with for about a month or so. This change is great......for non snipers. The range reduction without buffing base damage is too overwhelming even for a really skilled sniper. Headshots are so incredibly difficult on a moving target and we will be so much closer now. The charge already had a huge drawback in that if you missed or didn't get the kill, the target had a nice window to find cover or escape, plus now they will know your location. Now it only has 3 rounds which in my opinion will make this gun almost unusable at 450 range. Because of the reduced range it actually matters if you can OHK somebody. If you can't, they will know where you are and you will actually be reachable now. Basically the charged was double nerfed because now you can only miss 1 body shot in between an already long charge time or else you will definitely lose the kill and that's on non tank armored medium suits and below. If you had significantly buffed it's base damage it'd be a different story but as of now it has the same damage , lower range, less rounds and overall ammo capacity. I think you have placed too much of the balancing on headshots. The vibe im getting from CCP at the moment is: "All the nerfs will be ok as long as we buff headshot damage". It's like you have 4-5 nerfs and then added 1 buff to compensate and this is all on the first hotfix for them. I know a lot of people who claim to snipe very often think this is a really good change but coming from someone who truly snipes in 90% of their matches i think you will see a lot less snipers or just see redline snipers who can only start racking up kills when their team is being redlined and the enemy is so aggressive they are close enough to hit from the redline. We need only a slight headshot modifier and a little more base damage for this to still be viable for the actual snipers in this game at closer range.
Taipaen Loose Cannon Security 23	Posted - 2014.09.09 23:11:00 - [74] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: I like the proposed changes, however Im not sure you will ever see a sniper getting close (without intentionally yoloing himself into it) until you change sway. Currently if Im at (for example) 100-150 meters or so, which is a pretty long engagement range for a sniper that isnt sitting on the redline or on some obscure hill, I have about 5 seconds or so at best before someone Im engaging can move into effective range and kick my ass. To add to that, to fire my weapon with any kind of accuracy, I have to stop my character, kneel down onto the ground, and zoom into ADS, and stand dead still for those 3-5 seconds + however long it takes me to kill or give up on killing my target. This means that if the guy Im shooting at (or anyone around me when I do my preshot routine) sees me, Im screwed big time. Until the pre-fire routine is removed or drastically reduced, snipers will never want to enter the battlefield proper, because its just stupid to do so. I know you dont intend to touch sway/stability/etc with this hotfix, but in the future just consider the above. And consider maybe changing the tactical into a very low sway rifle so we can actually use it with tactical movements to get a quick kill and move on, because the biggest achilles heel of a sniper in close range is that requirement to stop, drop, and die just to get an accurate shot off. I used to do this in Chromosome and I even wrote a Guide on it. Correct me if I am wrong, but I donGÇÖt believe the saw has changed since Chromosome. I've done this quite a bit, just not much in the past few months. The extra danger and challenge of battlefield sniping is what makes it fun for me. I've had quite a few targets return fire with a combat or rail rifle if the first shot didn't kill them. The pay-off is knowing the recently deceased target is looking at a death screen and wondering how the heck a sniper got THAT close to him. BTW, I liked your sniper guides, Fox. Very helpful when during my early days.
Zindorak 1.U.P 888	Posted - 2014.09.09 23:14:00 - [75] - Quote Um what are the current ranges? Pokemon master! I suck at Tekken lol
S-PANZA Expert Intervention Caldari State 66	Posted - 2014.09.09 23:32:00 - [76] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Um what are the current ranges? If your not reading the entire thread...make an effort to read post #1. Edit: right now theyre 600m.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16393	Posted - 2014.09.10 00:03:00 - [77] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: That's with Charge after hotfix as it stands, if I'm understanding you correctly? If so... I'll eat a 200m range nerf for the power to actually kill heavies with my Charge SR. Sure. That ammo capacity nerf is bloody draconian, though. Charge under purposed on headshot damage Charge also does 517.4 body shot against armor under maximum conditions before resistances are applied and 409.1 neutral/raw damage CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked
Miokai Zahou WarRavens Capital Punishment. 387	Posted - 2014.09.10 00:13:00 - [78] - Quote I'm sorry but as a sniper this is going to be very bad 'fix' for us considering you are basically turning a long range weapon into a over glorified long rifle. If you want to encourage urban snipering then you will need to and these features into delta: - reduce swaying while standing - remove swaying while crouch zoomed - increase sniper damage by 10/15% at the least (not thales) - tactical sniper needs to have the sound it makes decreased (encourages actually urban sniping) Everything else seems fair ONLY if you actually introduce a buff to sniper rifles... All I see is a lot of nerfs and almost impossible head shot bonuses while trying to be 'up close and personal'. Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
Tyjus Vacca The United Socialist Liberation Front 267	Posted - 2014.09.10 00:22:00 - [79] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Tyjus Vacca wrote: nano hives Read the thread. Nanohives give away your position, promoting the use of compacts, more easily concealed behind terrain features. Compacts are also very limited. They don't give you much. We're have a meta right now where we can't OHK anything that even attempts a tank, not even a light frame with plates. We're being given a new meta where we can kill, but only with headshots. So we have to go for the headshot. So we'll miss much more frequently. So we'll run out of ammo more frequently. So our compact nanohives will be exhausted sooner. And unlike regular hives, you can only carry one at a time. So only the top 1% of snipers in the game who can consistently tag the headshot on sprinting, zigzagging and bunnyhopping targets will maintain kill numbers like what they have now while middle-ground snipers will very likely see a marked decrease. Bad snipers will probably give it up, but I guess that's the intent here anyway. Why is this so difficult for people to understand? EDIT: There's an idea, Rattati! Buff the compact nanohive, let us carry 2 instead of just 1. Maybe add an ADV variant of it that lets us carry 2. And 3 at PRO. Badly placed nano hives give up your position ..... just hide them, but I do like the Idea of meta lvls for compact nano hives so commandos are good now O_o
DarthMcFizzle MOOSE-KNUCKLEz CLAN 115	Posted - 2014.09.10 00:24:00 - [80] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: In all my time Sniping I never had a Thale drop for me. Ignorance is bliss. I will not know what I am missing. Been sniping for over a year and have only gotten three, I know your feels. Dibs on your isk

Tyjus Vacca The United Socialist Liberation Front 267	Posted - 2014.09.10 00:33:00 - [81] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Ah. You were talking post hotfix. I was talking current meta. Thought you were defending the nerf by saying it's OP as it is, OHKing heavies. Misunderstanding. Appia's still right and you're still wrong though Idk forge guns force you to play very stationary, idc how good you are your gonna need to slow down to get an accurate shot off on infantry, plus they are really predictable you can literally see them charging...... I literately dance while their shooting and just pop shot them while they're charging , or just get out of range either one works......... p.s. I'm never wrong, except when I'm not right =P so commandos are good now O_o
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1062	Posted - 2014.09.10 00:55:00 - [82] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: Badly placed nano hives give up your position ..... just hide them, but I do like the Idea of meta lvls for compact nano hives Here, since you're too lazy to read the thread before you start running your jib. Right-wing Extremist wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Yeah, most people donGÇÖt get 15 kills before having to find more ammo with the Burst HMG either. Potential kills and Expected kills are not the same thing. When I sniped I used a standard NanoHive much of the time, unless I had fitting issues, but I placed it about 20m behind my position behind a ridge or wall so it would not give away my position. Are you saying you expect to be able to sit in the same spot for the entire game without moving? You seem to have read me as saying I'm sitting on top of my compact. On Line Harvest, I have sat between the humps on top of Charlie, looked toward the south end of the map at the ridge in the enemy red line, and seen the huge bloom of a nanohive. I look through the scope and find that this hive is behind the ridge. I should not be able to see it at all. Yet, when not aiming through the scope, I see it plain as day. Remarking this as an odd rendering glitch, I went back to the scope and within moments found my target, a sniper in a gk.0 Logi something like 40m from the nanohive. I use compacts because I don't want to be caught out like that by an enemy sniper, FGer, Rail Tank or Assault Dropship. I see "well hidden" nanohives ALL THE TIME, from far across the map, because for some reason CCP decided that those can render at 500m but the actual terrain can't. "Look over there! Is that a nanohive or an uplink? I dunno, lemme look through the scope! Huh, that's weird. All I see is rocky landscape. Lemme put the scope down... yes, there it is again! I know I'm not crazy! I'd better track along that ridge with the scope and see what I can spy with my little eye. Oh, look! A sniper! +50 If he'd been using a compact, I wouldn't have noticed the much smaller shining dome of effect from so far away. Maybe that'll teach him not to be so brazen." This dramatization brought to you by Pale-eye Enterprises, LLC. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1062	Posted - 2014.09.10 01:02:00 - [83] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: Ah. You were talking post hotfix. I was talking current meta. Thought you were defending the nerf by saying it's OP as it is, OHKing heavies. Misunderstanding. Appia's still right and you're still wrong though Idk forge guns force you to play very stationary, idc how good you are your gonna need to slow down to get an accurate shot off on infantry, plus they are really predictable you can literally see them charging...... I literately dance while their shooting and just pop shot them while they're charging , or just get out of range either one works......... p.s. I'm never wrong, except when I'm not right =P Every time I'm on top of a tower and I get forged, I'm crouched stationary (because I bloody well HAVE to be to try and catch the headshot) and the FGer is making figure eights with his DS3. He'll miss me twice before I finally tag the first headshot. Then he hits. Or he misses again and ducks behind something to reload and let his shield hp regen. Pops back out, figure 8, I try to tag a headshot again, what a surprise, that was just a bodyshot (or a miss altogether), blinded by the flash from the FG near-miss, much of my shield HP gone from splash damage - whew, that was close! I'd better kill this g- Clone terminated. Some dude His corp Militia Forge Gun - 249m Remaining Shield - all of it :: Remaining Armor - most of it Damage dealt - enough to kill me 3 times over, on a body shot Forge gunners can cry me a river. I've NEVER shot at a stationary FGer, except when I've killed them. Which is to say, the only FGer a sniper's going to beat in a duel is the one that DOES stand still like an idiot and LET the sniper headshot them 2 or 3 times. I haven't seen one of THOSE unicorns in a long, long time. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1719	Posted - 2014.09.10 01:05:00 - [84] - Quote Confused on this part. CCP Rattati wrote: Tactical Sniper Rifle - the Rifleman, stand and shoot, and has enough ROF and damage output to effectively take down approaching enemies. (basically super TAR) CCP Rattati wrote: We do not want to touch stability, sway, nor accuracy in this pass, so please refrain from posting such comments. Am I reading that tacs will be able to fire from standing, or am I simply misreading? Shoot Scout with yes.
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1062	Posted - 2014.09.10 01:05:00 - [85] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The varitey of other buffs presented are not going into effect until we see the effect of these changes to prevent making a god gun off the bat. After all lots of the changes will change player behavior and that cannot be predictively measured in numbers. What "other buffs"? Was there something in the Narrative thread that I missed? Because Rattati doesn't mention any buff beyond putting the headshot modifier where it should be in the OP of this thread. All he mentions are range and zoom nerfs. What are these 'variety of other buffs presented'? EDIT: If I did in fact miss something, I'll go look for it - but nothing was linked to the barbershop so I might just not know that something better than the situation described here is on the table. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 894	Posted - 2014.09.10 01:10:00 - [86] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: Will the Thale's continue to work along the lines of the Garden Variety Sniper Rifle with Charge-caliber damage, Garden Variety clip and improved zoom? As for the Charge, define "smallest clip and ammo". I don't use the TacSR now and probably will continue to not do so as lining up a headshot at relatively close range against a dropsuit zig-zagging toward me is outside of my ability. But the proposal seems to accomplish what you set out to do for the TacSR (i.e.: giving it a niche). I need those first two questions answered before I can be 'okay' with this nerf, though. Thale's will be an improved "normal" sniper rifle, with the same zoom. The Thale's zoom will be removed from the game. Charged Sniper - 3 shot clip, 15 ammo. You can call it a nerf all you want, we think it is a massive buff to headshots and the role. I don't know if you know this but the zoom in the game is terrible. Head shots are almost impossible with a DS3. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6874	Posted - 2014.09.10 01:12:00 - [87] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The varitey of other buffs presented are not going into effect until we see the effect of these changes to prevent making a god gun off the bat. After all lots of the changes will change player behavior and that cannot be predictively measured in numbers. What "other buffs"? Was there something in the Narrative thread that I missed? Because Rattati doesn't mention any buff beyond putting the headshot modifier where it should be in the OP of this thread. All he mentions are range and zoom nerfs. What are these 'variety of other buffs presented'? EDIT: If I did in fact miss something, I'll go look for it - but nothing was linked to the barbershop so I might just not know that something better than the situation described here is on the table. In my OP and replies, we do mention sway and further changes. We are also increasing normal damage on tactical and normal snipers. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6874	Posted - 2014.09.10 01:14:00 - [88] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Confused on this part. CCP Rattati wrote: Tactical Sniper Rifle - the Rifleman, stand and shoot, and has enough ROF and damage output to effectively take down approaching enemies. (basically super TAR) CCP Rattati wrote: We do not want to touch stability, sway, nor accuracy in this pass, so please refrain from posting such comments. Am I reading that tacs will be able to fire from standing, or am I simply misreading? You can still stand and shoot with max skills, at a somewhat good efficiency. In Delta it might be a little more of move, crouch and shoot to be honest. We want to see first how it pans out in Delta, collect data, and then maybe decrease sway on the TacSR to fit the role better. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16396	Posted - 2014.09.10 01:15:00 - [89] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The varitey of other buffs presented are not going into effect until we see the effect of these changes to prevent making a god gun off the bat. After all lots of the changes will change player behavior and that cannot be predictively measured in numbers. What "other buffs"? Was there something in the Narrative thread that I missed? Because Rattati doesn't mention any buff beyond putting the headshot modifier where it should be in the OP of this thread. All he mentions are range and zoom nerfs. What are these 'variety of other buffs presented'? EDIT: If I did in fact miss something, I'll go look for it - but nothing was linked to the barbershop so I might just not know that something better than the situation described here is on the table. The accuracy sway and base damage buff namely but like I said little at a time and not to much all at once. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1062	Posted - 2014.09.10 01:16:00 - [90] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In my OP and replies, we do mention sway and further changes. We are also increasing normal damage on tactical and normal snipers. Ah, so not JUST headshot damage (except on the Charge and Thale's). That's more reasonable. I failed to understand that from the OP - my apologies. I hope you caught the suggestion about tiered Compact nanohives (my original suggestion was to allow ADV and PRO compacts to carry 2 and 3 hives respectively, but an increase in nanite clusters would be equally nice - one or the other, not both, I'm not trying to be greedy here). Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.

Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1719	Posted - 2014.09.10 01:24:00 - [91] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Confused on this part. CCP Rattati wrote: Tactical Sniper Rifle - the Rifleman, stand and shoot, and has enough ROF and damage output to effectively take down approaching enemies. (basically super TAR) CCP Rattati wrote: We do not want to touch stability, sway, nor accuracy in this pass, so please refrain from posting such comments. Am I reading that tacs will be able to fire from standing, or am I simply misreading? You can still stand and shoot with max skills, at a somewhat good efficiency. In Delta it might be a little more of move, crouch and shoot to be honest. We want to see first how it pans out in Delta, collect data, and then maybe decrease sway on the TacSR to fit the role better. Awesome, thanks. Hope you do remove the sway while standing for tac snipers. My Commando cko will thank you immensely. :) Shoot Scout with yes.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2302	Posted - 2014.09.10 02:20:00 - [92] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: ...15 ammo. "Let's make sure people HAVE to skill the extra ammo capacity skill to 5, it'll be fun!" Not terribly pleased with that... This got me thinking. I know we've got the nanohives, and that's well and good, but consider also giving us a low-slot module to increase ammo carried. Think along the lines of the modules for Vehicle ammo storage. Low slots modules for Light, Heavy, and Sidearm ammo capacity. Tie it to the Handheld Weapon Upgrades skill. Those of us who're sniping to be snipers, and not to be "safe" in heavily tanked suits, will run an ammo storage module in our low(s) and be even less tanky/more easy to kill than we already were. I'm not even trolling. I've got the ammo capacity skill at only one or two for the SR, whatever skill level gives the current Charge SR 5 in the clip and 21 in reserve. I'd sacrifice a module slot to get that 15 back up to the 21 I have now. Great idea! Maybe make it even give a small clip size bonus so that it'd be viable with other weapons as well "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2302	Posted - 2014.09.10 02:22:00 - [93] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: Will the Thale's continue to work along the lines of the Garden Variety Sniper Rifle with Charge-caliber damage, Garden Variety clip and improved zoom? As for the Charge, define "smallest clip and ammo". I don't use the TacSR now and probably will continue to not do so as lining up a headshot at relatively close range against a dropsuit zig-zagging toward me is outside of my ability. But the proposal seems to accomplish what you set out to do for the TacSR (i.e.: giving it a niche). I need those first two questions answered before I can be 'okay' with this nerf, though. Thale's will be an improved "normal" sniper rifle, with the same zoom. The Thale's zoom will be removed from the game. Charged Sniper - 3 shot clip, 15 ammo. You can call it a nerf all you want, we think it is a massive buff to headshots and the role. I don't know if you know this but the zoom in the game is terrible. Head shots are almost impossible with a DS3. Disagree. All i hit is head shots lol "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Tyjus Vacca The United Socialist Liberation Front 267	Posted - 2014.09.10 02:23:00 - [94] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Tyjus Vacca wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: Ah. You were talking post hotfix. I was talking current meta. Thought you were defending the nerf by saying it's OP as it is, OHKing heavies. Misunderstanding. Appia's still right and you're still wrong though Idk forge guns force you to play very stationary, idc how good you are your gonna need to slow down to get an accurate shot off on infantry, plus they are really predictable you can literally see them charging...... I literately dance while their shooting and just pop shot them while they're charging , or just get out of range either one works......... p.s. I'm never wrong, except when I'm not right =P Every time I'm on top of a tower and I get forged, I'm crouched stationary (because I bloody well HAVE to be to try and catch the headshot) and the FGer is making figure eights with his DS3. He'll miss me twice before I finally tag the first headshot. Then he hits. Or he misses again and ducks behind something to reload and let his shield hp regen. Pops back out, figure 8, I try to tag a headshot again, what a surprise, that was just a bodyshot (or a miss altogether), blinded by the flash from the FG near-miss, much of my shield HP gone from splash damage - whew, that was close! I'd better kill this g- Clone terminated. Some dude His corp Militia Forge Gun - 249m Remaining Shield - all of it :: Remaining Armor - most of it Damage dealt - enough to kill me 3 times over, on a body shot Forge gunners can cry me a river. I've NEVER shot at a stationary FGer, except when I've killed them. Which is to say, the only FGer a sniper's going to beat in a duel is the one that DOES stand still like an idiot and LET the sniper headshot them 2 or 3 times. I haven't seen one of THOSE unicorns in a long, long time. if you cant hit him just move out of his range.....he literally has no chance of hitting you past 250 meters....and if your crouched of course hes gonna hit you try strafing sniper changes !!? O_o
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1719	Posted - 2014.09.10 02:50:00 - [95] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: Tyjus Vacca wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: Ah. You were talking post hotfix. I was talking current meta. Thought you were defending the nerf by saying it's OP as it is, OHKing heavies. Misunderstanding. Appia's still right and you're still wrong though Idk forge guns force you to play very stationary, idc how good you are your gonna need to slow down to get an accurate shot off on infantry, plus they are really predictable you can literally see them charging...... I literately dance while their shooting and just pop shot them while they're charging , or just get out of range either one works......... p.s. I'm never wrong, except when I'm not right =P Every time I'm on top of a tower and I get forged, I'm crouched stationary (because I bloody well HAVE to be to try and catch the headshot) and the FGer is making figure eights with his DS3. He'll miss me twice before I finally tag the first headshot. Then he hits. Or he misses again and ducks behind something to reload and let his shield hp regen. Pops back out, figure 8, I try to tag a headshot again, what a surprise, that was just a bodyshot (or a miss altogether), blinded by the flash from the FG near-miss, much of my shield HP gone from splash damage - whew, that was close! I'd better kill this g- Clone terminated. Some dude His corp Militia Forge Gun - 249m Remaining Shield - all of it :: Remaining Armor - most of it Damage dealt - enough to kill me 3 times over, on a body shot Forge gunners can cry me a river. I've NEVER shot at a stationary FGer, except when I've killed them. Which is to say, the only FGer a sniper's going to beat in a duel is the one that DOES stand still like an idiot and LET the sniper headshot them 2 or 3 times. I haven't seen one of THOSE unicorns in a long, long time. if you cant hit him just move out of his range.....he literally has no chance of hitting you past 250 meters....and if your crouched of course hes gonna hit you try strafing You're not familiar with how sniper rifles work, are you? Shoot Scout with yes.
Appia Vibbia 3762	Posted - 2014.09.10 03:01:00 - [96] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: You're not familiar with how sniper rifles work, are you? lol, Tyjus is just an excellent example of a player that hates camping. Regardless of having a significant impact on the game or not he'd rather run around and quick scope than run overwatch. Most maps are limited on where you can actually get a good angle off, especially since they removed the ability to sit atop the obelisks, so any forge gun user sitting atop a flat surface is virtually untouchable now due to the distance away any locations that are close to level with a building they sit on. Personal Theme Song
Tyjus Vacca The United Socialist Liberation Front 267	Posted - 2014.09.10 03:35:00 - [97] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: You're not familiar with how sniper rifles work, are you? lol, Tyjus is just an excellent example of a player that hates camping. Regardless of having a significant impact on the game or not he'd rather run around and quick scope than run overwatch. Most maps are limited on where you can actually get a good angle off, especially since they removed the ability to sit atop the obelisks, so any forge gun user sitting atop a flat surface is virtually untouchable now due to the distance away any locations that are close to level with a building they sit on. but thats how you beat forges you have to be aggressive... or just out-range them sniper changes !!? O_o
Tyjus Vacca The United Socialist Liberation Front 267	Posted - 2014.09.10 03:37:00 - [98] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: You're not familiar with how sniper rifles work, are you? they shoot people with alot of dmg.... thats about all I need to know sniper changes !!? O_o

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6888	Posted - 2014.09.10 04:35:00 - [99] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: In my OP and replies, we do mention sway and further changes. We are also increasing normal damage on tactical and normal snipers. Ah, so not JUST headshot damage (except on the Charge and Thale's). That's more reasonable. I failed to understand that from the OP - my apologies. I hope you caught the suggestion about tiered Compact nanohives (my original suggestion was to allow ADV and PRO compacts to carry 2 and 3 hives respectively, but an increase in nanite clusters would be equally nice - one or the other, not both, I'm not trying to be greedy here). Wouldn't a lower nanite consumption on sniper rifles also work? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Apocalyptic Destroyer RestlessSpirits 124	Posted - 2014.09.10 05:14:00 - [100] - Quote Overall, you must remember that the Thales must remain superior ! As it is an Officer weapon. Otherwise there would be no use for it and we would need another Officer Variant. ~R1P

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3359	Posted - 2014.09.10 05:42:00 - [101] - Quote Apocalyptic Destroyer wrote: Overall, you must remember that the Thales must remain superior ! As it is an Officer weapon. Otherwise there would be no use for it and we would need another Officer Variant. It is still beastly at damage. The zoom level is game-breaking. Thale's could always be buffed in terms of clip, rate of fire, etc. But the zoom level has absolutely got to go. As someone largely pushing for sniper buffs, that is one nerf I strongly stand firm on. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1066	Posted - 2014.09.10 06:16:00 - [102] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: if you cant hit him just move out of his range.....he literally has no chance of hitting you past 250 meters....and if your crouched of course hes gonna hit you try strafing Now I know you're trolling. "Try strafing". With my sniper rifle. When I NEED consecutive headshots to kill him. Snipers don't have the luxury of strafing, you idiot. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1066	Posted - 2014.09.10 06:26:00 - [103] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: In my OP and replies, we do mention sway and further changes. We are also increasing normal damage on tactical and normal snipers. Ah, so not JUST headshot damage (except on the Charge and Thale's). That's more reasonable. I failed to understand that from the OP - my apologies. I hope you caught the suggestion about tiered Compact nanohives (my original suggestion was to allow ADV and PRO compacts to carry 2 and 3 hives respectively, but an increase in nanite clusters would be equally nice - one or the other, not both, I'm not trying to be greedy here). Wouldn't a lower nanite consumption on sniper rifles also work? YES! I don't know what the numbers are on nanite consumption vs. nanite clusters in a hive. But right now, the compact hive gives me 26 founds and then 21 rounds if I use only my Charge SR. So, that's two full loads minus one clip, with the clip size of 5 and my skill level's 21 rounds in reserve to start. Altogether, with a compact hive and not running down to a supply depot, that's 73 shots total. New clip size of Charge SR being 3, with 15 in reserve to start (base, dunno what it would be with my skills, probably 16?) Eh... as I type this, it occurs to me that if nanite consumption is UNchanged, then the compact should still give me around the same total number of shots... I would just have to run to it more often. So on the one hand, there's a solid argument to be made against altering the nanite consumption. On the other hand, with such great emphasis being placed on headshots in HF Delta, it's inevitable that most of us are going to miss much, much more often -> more wasted ammo -> need more benefit from compact hives. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Gabriel Ceja Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 58	Posted - 2014.09.10 06:51:00 - [104] - Quote I really like the new head shot multiplier nice work on that "Throw on the flux capacitor." activates fuel injector "WOOOOOO!!!"
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2808	Posted - 2014.09.10 08:29:00 - [105] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: shaman oga wrote: All the changes seem to be good, but one. The zoom level. The only SR with a actual sniper rifle zoom level was the Thale. Even if i like the changes and i really want more active snipers, the zoom level is needed, for physical reasons (not of the game), my eyes, i can't see a damn thing with the current zoom level. Also the game from sniper eyes is flat, it's 2D, only the Thale have enough zoom to see 3D shaped objects. Please do it for our eyes, increase the zoom. The problem with the Thale's zoom level, is it allows them to very effectively operate outside the render distance of pretty much everyone. It's why Thale's users are essentially invisible, and impossible to locate and counter. That is not true, render distance seems to be the same on all SR, the problem is that with non-Thale SR the zoom level is miserable and you can't see nothing. Instead of nerf all zoom, CCP should buff all zoom and problem would be solved. I don't care to shoot people at 600 meters but i would like to see them with a good magnification, afterall it's a sniper rifle not a DMR. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
George Moros RestlessSpirits 413	Posted - 2014.09.10 08:51:00 - [106] - Quote From what I could gather of Rattati's input, it seems to me that the charge variant is going to be the least used. Standard version has the best range and receives a damage buff, so I suppose it will be the most used variant for all tower and redline snipers (yes, redline snipers aren't going away after delta - if you believe the contrary you are sorely mistaken). The tactical variant may see some good use, especially on Cal. commandos in a RR + TacSR combo. The charge however, seems like the worst choice. No base damage buff, and with the new orientation towards headshot bonus, the charge is going to be the most difficult to use. If you miss with the charge, you will get the fewest chances to correct. Combine this with the fact that you can be outranged by the standard version, and you get a pretty lousy weapon. With all that in mind, here's my (counter)proposal to Rattati's OP: I believe that the new headshot orientation for SRs is not necessarily a bad move. However, I think that headshots shouldn't be the only option for successful sniping. Getting headshots may prove to be so difficult task that no amount of headshot damage bonus could compensate. And since there are three sniper rifle variants this could be remedied and also allow for several different approaches to sniping, making the role more versatile and customizable. Therefore, Sniper rifle: I think the proposed change seems a solid choice for the "headshot sniper". With the longest range, it would allow it's user most safety to go for those hard-to-get, but immensely rewarding headshots. Tactical sniper: This could be the closest thing to a DMR, but it's currently not clear just how much ROF, clip size and ammo it will get. If it would be possible to eliminate sway while standing (still, of course), this could be a very interesting weapon. However, to differentiate it further from the standard SR, I think it should have even less range (300m), less headshot bonus (200%), but allow for less static gameplay and making quick successive shots. Sort of a TacAR on steroids. Charge sniper: This one would be the "bodyshot sniper". By this I mean very small headshot bonus (if any at all), but massive base damage. By "massive" I mean being able to OHK any scout suit, and even poorly (or cheaply) tanked mediums. By no means should the charge SR be able to OHK proto, or even solidly tanked advanced mediums, and my proposed small (or non-existant) headshot bonus would be a guarantee for that. If this variant proves to be OP, or the next "redline favorite", it's range could be further nerfed to 350m, but I think it should retain it's massive base damage. So, there you have it. Three very different sniper rifles, each allowing for a distinctive approach to sniping. Whaddaya think? P.S. I also think that the charge variant should be introduced at advanced level, not just proto. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
Tech De Ra Electronic Sports League 764	Posted - 2014.09.10 10:08:00 - [107] - Quote Quote: YES! I don't know what the numbers are on nanite consumption vs. nanite clusters in a hive. wpn_sniperrifle_ca_adv mTotalAmmoNanitesCost = 16 eqp_nanohive_std_compact mStoreOfNanites = 25 Prime League champion SGL Sidearm champion Fanfest '14 All star champion
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16404	Posted - 2014.09.10 11:50:00 - [108] - Quote George Moros wrote: From what I could gather of Rattati's input, it seems to me that the charge variant is going to be the least used. Standard version has the best range and receives a damage buff, so I suppose it will be the most used variant for all tower and redline snipers (yes, redline snipers aren't going away after delta - if you believe the contrary you are sorely mistaken). The tactical variant may see some good use, especially on Cal. commandos in a RR + TacSR combo. The charge however, seems like the worst choice. No base damage buff, and with the new orientation towards headshot bonus, the charge is going to be the most difficult to use. If you miss with the charge, you will get the fewest chances to correct. Combine this with the fact that you can be outranged by the standard version, and you get a pretty lousy weapon. With all that in mind, here's my (counter)proposal to Rattati's OP: I believe that the new headshot orientation for SRs is not necessarily a bad move. However, I think that headshots shouldn't be the only option for successful sniping. Getting headshots may prove to be so difficult task that no amount of headshot damage bonus could compensate. And since there are three sniper rifle variants this could be remedied and also allow for several different approaches to sniping, making the role more versatile and customizable. Therefore, Sniper rifle: I think the proposed change seems a solid choice for the "headshot sniper". With the longest range, it would allow it's user most safety to go for those hard-to-get, but immensely rewarding headshots. Tactical sniper: This could be the closest thing to a DMR, but it's currently not clear just how much ROF, clip size and ammo it will get. If it would be possible to eliminate sway while standing (still, of course), this could be a very interesting weapon. However, to differentiate it further from the standard SR, I think it should have even less range (300m), less headshot bonus (200%), but allow for less static gameplay and making quick successive shots. Sort of a TacAR on steroids. Charge sniper: This one would be the "bodyshot sniper". By this I mean very small headshot bonus (if any at all), but massive base damage. By "massive" I mean being able to OHK any scout suit, and even poorly (or cheaply) tanked mediums. By no means should the charge SR be able to OHK proto, or even solidly tanked advanced mediums, and my proposed small (or non-existant) headshot bonus would be a guarantee for that. If this variant proves to be OP, or the next "redline favorite", it's range could be further nerfed to 350m, but I think it should retain it's massive base damage. So, there you have it. Three very different sniper rifles, each allowing for a distinctive approach to sniping. Whaddaya think? P.S. I also think that the charge variant should be introduced at advanced level, not just proto. Charge sniper is already the body shotter hence its attraction currently. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1790	Posted - 2014.09.10 11:56:00 - [109] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Sniper Rifle - the Suppressor, enough firepower to line up enough bodyshots to suppress, kill stragglers and countersnipe Highest range, medium clip and medium ammo, sustainable dps High damage - High headshot modifier 300% (from 196%) New Effective range - 450 Reticule - New Sniper reticule based on Plasma cannon Charged Sniper Rifle - the Executioner, one shot-one kill type Trades range and ROF for alpha damage, high headshot multiplier and highest native damage, smallest clip and ammo High damage - Very high headshot modifier 350% (from 196%) New Effective Range - 400 Reticule - New Sniper reticule based on Plasma cannon Tactical Sniper Rifle - the Rifleman, stand and shoot, and has enough ROF and damage output to effectively take down approaching enemies. (basically super TAR) High damage - high headshot modifier - 250% (from 196%) Main change - Increased ROF, clip size and ammo, direct damage New Effective Range - 350 Reticule - the current circle to allow shorter range engagements and snap shots These ranges mean they can still touch the objective from the redline on the majority of maps. So the only real change is to turn headshots into OHKs. Bear in mind that a lot of snipers put themselves on towers, so they get headshots for free. Who is going to bother to run ground infantry when they get OHKed at the drop of a hat? Quote: We want there to be a proper range progression from novaknife to sniper rifle, and a place on the battle field for each range bracket. So 'proper range progression' is: Touching distance - OHK (charged nova knife) Short range - 1 or 2 shot kill (shotgun) Mid range - multishot kill with moderate initial DPS (most rifles) Long range - multishot kill with low initial DPS (laser rifle) Extra long range - OHK (charge sniper rifle) Spot the outlier...
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12084	Posted - 2014.09.10 11:59:00 - [110] - Quote Looks solid, waiting for the QQ once the patch is out, regardless of the side it is coming from. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC

George Moros RestlessSpirits 414	Posted - 2014.09.10 12:05:00 - [111] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Charge sniper is already the body shotter hence its attraction currently. Current charge sniper has a range of 600m. Reducing the range to 400m (or even 350) will make the rifle lose much of it's "allure". Especially if it exists only in a 47k ISK proto variant (which I'm against). Also, body shotter or not, if you score a headshot with a (current) charge, you'll OHK almost everything but a heavy. This is not what I'm proposing. I'm simply against the idea that all snipers should so heavily rely on headshots to be effective. AFAIC, standard variant could be made as a "body shotter", and charge as a "head shotter". As long as people have the option to choose what suits them best, this balancing of sniper rifles can only make the game better and more interesting. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
George Moros RestlessSpirits 414	Posted - 2014.09.10 12:46:00 - [112] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: So 'proper range progression' is: Touching distance - OHK (charged nova knife) Short range - 1 or 2 shot kill (shotgun) Mid range - multishot kill with moderate initial DPS (most rifles) Long range - multishot kill with low initial DPS (laser rifle) Extra long range - OHK (charge sniper rifle) Spot the outlier... If only things were so simple as you try to make them be... Pulvereus ergo queritor.
Keeriam Miray R 0 N 1 N 345	Posted - 2014.09.10 12:56:00 - [113] - Quote i know for sure 2 things: 1 - there still be immune for counter-sniping redline sumo-snipers 2 - without changes to maps, there isn't way to somehow balance sniping CCP Rattati wrote: We are also increasing normal damage on tactical and normal snipers. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 3 proto damage mods, max prof, commando bonus. 1431.51 headshot damage raw before prof and armor vs shields factor 1574.70 headshot damage against armor before prof 1810.91 headshot damage against armor after prof 1288.39 headshot shield damage So those numbers are invalid for Charge right? Also calmando is not a sniper suit, it's just only suits that has extra bonuses dor SR. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
Tech De Ra Electronic Sports League 765	Posted - 2014.09.10 15:23:00 - [114] - Quote Quote: Also calmando is not a sniper suit, it's just only suits that has extra bonuses for SR. So what you're saying is, the calmando makes a high damage long range weapon even higher damage So it can be used as a sniper suit Prime League champion SGL Sidearm champion Fanfest '14 All star champion
Keeriam Miray R 0 N 1 N 345	Posted - 2014.09.10 17:11:00 - [115] - Quote Tech De Ra wrote: Quote: Also calmando is not a sniper suit, it's just only suits that has extra bonuses for SR. So what you're saying is, the calmando makes a high damage long range weapon even higher damage So it can be used as a sniper suit As a sniper tank suit, more HP, more dmg, faster reload speed, ability to defend himself. Simply CCP forcing to skill into certain suits or weapons to be viable at chosen role. Forcing players into godmode combo of sumo sniper + lav, we will see that alot after Delta, wannabe sniper tourists with very few kills. Like Appia said, forge gun sniping + lav is more viable as sniper, counter sniper, AV & more rewarding than using any sniper rifle with any suit. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2223	Posted - 2014.09.10 17:45:00 - [116] - Quote Liking what the proposals do for the midrange sniper game. Snipers will still be able to operate from within the redline, but also will become much more vulnerable to scramblers, rails, minja, SG scouts, DS and FG heavies. This is a worthy attempt to bring relevance and engagement to the sniper role, but we're really being pushed around by the game mechanics here. These proposals would be very different if there was no redline - we're being forced to twist snipers into something they're not. PSN: RationalSpark
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3375	Posted - 2014.09.10 19:38:00 - [117] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Instead of nerf all zoom, CCP should buff all zoom and problem would be solved. No, because with the buffed zoom, all snipers would be impossible to find except by other snipers. That's the problem with the Thale's zoom. It allows Thale's to effectively snipe from way too far out. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1720	Posted - 2014.09.10 19:57:00 - [118] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: shaman oga wrote: Instead of nerf all zoom, CCP should buff all zoom and problem would be solved. No, because with the buffed zoom, all snipers would be impossible to find except by other snipers. That's the problem with the Thale's zoom. It allows Thale's to effectively snipe from way too far out. Not the problem at all. The problem is snipers have too much range, and the Thale's zoom can use more of this range than the other rifles, because of the zoom. In other words, since all snipers have 600m range, all snipers are therefore equal in terms of how far away they can kill. However, the Thale's can kill from farther away easier because of it's zoom. But the zoom does not magically give it more range than the other snipers, it simply can take better advantage of that range. If we cut range down to 400m, it doesn't matter how much zoom the Thale's has, the shots will only go 400m. Shoot Scout with yes.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 447	Posted - 2014.09.10 21:01:00 - [119] - Quote George Moros wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Charge sniper is already the body shotter hence its attraction currently. Current charge sniper has a range of 600m. Reducing the range to 400m (or even 350) will make the rifle lose much of it's "allure". Especially if it exists only in a 47k ISK proto variant (which I'm against). Also, body shotter or not, if you score a headshot with a (current) charge, you'll OHK almost everything but a heavy. This is not what I'm proposing. I'm simply against the idea that all snipers should so heavily rely on headshots to be effective. AFAIC, standard variant could be made as a "body shotter", and charge as a "head shotter". As long as people have the option to choose what suits them best, this balancing of sniper rifles can only make the game better and more interesting. easy there mate, i happen to like the charge as the type of rifle it falls into.... i can almost make do with a lower range given the extra damage to both both base and headshot, i do not want it to become a specific to one or the other, in this proposal it's the sniper style weapon. one shot one kill. @ rattati please do make the adjustments to nano hives for sniper rifles. is there any chance of adjusting the ammo skill.. 1 shot per point? only those willing to spend serious sp get extra 5, everyone else might skill to level 3.
Zindorak 1.U.P 892	Posted - 2014.09.10 21:22:00 - [120] - Quote S-PANZA wrote: Zindorak wrote: Um what are the current ranges? If your not reading the entire thread...make an effort to read post #1. Edit: right now theyre 600m. Ok thanks Pokemon master! I suck at Tekken lol

Keeriam Miray R 0 N 1 N 345	Posted - 2014.09.10 22:02:00 - [121] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: No, because with the buffed zoom, all snipers would be impossible to find except by other snipers. That's the problem with the Thale's zoom. It allows Thale's to effectively snipe from way too far out. Zoom alows only for better aiming, current zoom lvl alow normal aiming with fair chances for headshots max at 200-250m, beyond 250-300m you barely can see head of zig-zaging infantry. Problem with Thale's is terribad designed maps that was created with no ability of sniping role in mind. New maps & fixes to maps (with removing or blocking ways) only proves that. Players scared to use that very rare weapon, bad game machanics forcing & alows them for brick tanking medium & heavy suits making them immune for counter-sniping. Forcing sniper haters for kamikadze style that alows cheap & unfair revenge. Snipers should be mosty vulnerable for counter-snipers which make sense & logical. Problem with redline snipers is screen scanning that alows highliting anything within range of weapon (600m) and through solid objects at wide angles, making way too easily for finding and tracking targets. That one of the biggest problem in Dust: - screen scanning - shared squad vision Shared squad vision should be availible only by active scanners. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
Necalli XIBALBA Crows Assassins 3	Posted - 2014.09.10 23:30:00 - [122] - Quote S-PANZA wrote: Some will like the reduction in range but Im sure it wont be snipers. I dont foresee snipers coming down from the hills .Youve only managed to reduced the amount of targets a sniper has and considerably weakened the ability to counter snipe by reducing range. Snipers arent interested in moving closer to the battlefield. The longer range shots is what makes a sniper a sniper. I know this will fall on deaf ears and the range reduction is already set in stone but thats a snipers best asset...the long head shot. On a different note... why do posters that claim not to snipe feel compelled to propose changes for a class they dont use. They don't care over at CCP! It's their way or the highway!
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1122	Posted - 2014.09.11 03:01:00 - [123] - Quote The changes look good. From the little i've tried the current sniper mechanics. But what about those domination maps that are extremely small,but have large redline zones? Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16404	Posted - 2014.09.11 03:34:00 - [124] - Quote George Moros wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Charge sniper is already the body shotter hence its attraction currently. Current charge sniper has a range of 600m. Reducing the range to 400m (or even 350) will make the rifle lose much of it's "allure". Especially if it exists only in a 47k ISK proto variant (which I'm against). Also, body shotter or not, if you score a headshot with a (current) charge, you'll OHK almost everything but a heavy. This is not what I'm proposing. I'm simply against the idea that all snipers should so heavily rely on headshots to be effective. AFAIC, standard variant could be made as a "body shotter", and charge as a "head shotter". As long as people have the option to choose what suits them best, this balancing of sniper rifles can only make the game better and more interesting. Dunno the tactical seems to rely more on its RoF from what I am seeing. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked
Jathniel G I A N T 1162	Posted - 2014.09.11 03:47:00 - [125] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All right, this may get interesting. First let me thank the CPM, Barbershop, dedicated snipers and Iron Wolf Saber for a lot of feedback and information gathering. In the end, it's going to be CCP, that makes the most informed decision we can, so please don't blame them for the bad things, and pat them on the back for the good things. The intent is to bring snipers closer to the battle, and specifically not have to rely on countersniping a Thale's with a Thale's. Boosting headshot damage modifiers will reward skilled snipers, and make countersniping and heavy take-downs way more feasible. We think these are moderate proposals and are intended to be buffs to the role, but will also increase the risk of the sniper, and that is intended. We want there to be a proper range progression from novaknife to sniper rifle, and a place on the battle field for each range bracket. Now to the design goals/intent. Please try to frame your feedback so it is relative to these roles. Sniper Rifle - the Suppressor, enough firepower to line up enough bodyshots to suppress, kill stragglers and countersnipe Highest range, medium clip and medium ammo, sustainable dps High damage - High headshot modifier 300% (from 196%) New Effective range - 450 Reticule - New Sniper reticule based on Plasma cannon Charged Sniper Rifle - the Executioner, one shot-one kill type Trades range and ROF for alpha damage, high headshot multiplier and highest native damage, smallest clip and ammo High damage - Very high headshot modifier 350% (from 196%) New Effective Range - 400 Reticule - New Sniper reticule based on Plasma cannon Tactical Sniper Rifle - the Rifleman, stand and shoot, and has enough ROF and damage output to effectively take down approaching enemies. (basically super TAR) High damage - high headshot modifier - 250% (from 196%) Main change - Increased ROF, clip size and ammo, direct damage New Effective Range - 350 Reticule - the current circle to allow shorter range engagements and snap shots Keeping all ranges well out of Forge gun ranges and retaining enough range to be effective. The Thale's zoom and range will be adjusted properly to fit thes design goals, ie. the zoom will be adapted and the current zoom reduced. We do not want to touch stability, sway, nor accuracy in this pass, so please refrain from posting such comments. Please try to keep this civil and constructive, and to the point. There will be no ranting tolerated here, we have had enough in recent threads. Talk about the points, what we missed, what we did right and do not project what you think other people or CCP know or think about snipers. Just your personal feedback. Thanks! Psh... these are basically MY recommendations... minus the sway balances. No credit is ever given. lol You say, you're not touching stability, sway, nor accuracy... that may be fine and dandy with the normal and charge sniper, but if you bring the tactical sniper up close as a dmr, with a higher rof, and you DO NOT add a proper recoil penalty... it WILL become the next FOTM. I guarantee it. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Jathniel G I A N T 1162	Posted - 2014.09.11 03:50:00 - [126] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: George Moros wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Charge sniper is already the body shotter hence its attraction currently. Current charge sniper has a range of 600m. Reducing the range to 400m (or even 350) will make the rifle lose much of it's "allure". Especially if it exists only in a 47k ISK proto variant (which I'm against). Also, body shotter or not, if you score a headshot with a (current) charge, you'll OHK almost everything but a heavy. This is not what I'm proposing. I'm simply against the idea that all snipers should so heavily rely on headshots to be effective. AFAIC, standard variant could be made as a "body shotter", and charge as a "head shotter". As long as people have the option to choose what suits them best, this balancing of sniper rifles can only make the game better and more interesting. Dunno the tactical seems to rely more on its RoF from what I am seeing. The tactical is going to be the new favorite. We can say "shut up about the sway" as much as we want, but if it is going to be a weapon suitable for closer ranges with higher rate of fire. It will need a damage nerf, and a proper kick penalty. I'd say bring it's rof and damage more in line with the bolt pistol. It will need to have good recoil behind every shot to prevent it from becoming fotm. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Jathniel G I A N T 1162	Posted - 2014.09.11 03:58:00 - [127] - Quote S-PANZA wrote: Some will like the reduction in range but Im sure it wont be snipers. I dont foresee snipers coming down from the hills .Youve only managed to reduced the amount of targets a sniper has and considerably weakened the ability to counter snipe by reducing range. Snipers arent interested in moving closer to the battlefield. The longer range shots is what makes a sniper a sniper. I know this will fall on deaf ears and the range reduction is already set in stone but thats a snipers best asset...the long head shot. On a different note... why do posters that claim not to snipe feel compelled to propose changes for a class they dont use. Ranges will be fine for the most part. You'll still have SOME redline snipers on some maps. But actual sniper-play isn't going to be hurt very much by the new ranges. The tactical is definitely going to be the new favorite. I am SUPER scared that the tactical sniper will be the next FOTM. Like, HELLA scared. An out-of-control sniper rifle would be far nastier than ANY OP weapon that we have EVER had. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
George Moros RestlessSpirits 415	Posted - 2014.09.11 05:06:00 - [128] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: easy there mate, i happen to like the charge as the type of rifle it falls into.... i can almost make do with a lower range given the extra damage to both both base and headshot, i do not want it to become a specific to one or the other, in this proposal it's the sniper style weapon. one shot one kill. As I understood Rattati's input, Charge doesn't receive any base damage buff. But maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, I think we should be very careful with the OHK doctrine here. If the charge (or any sniper) will allow for OHKs of some fancy proto assaults or even heavies, I think you'll see a new avalanche of rage against snipers. You have to understand that the primary cause of sniper hate is not that snipers are OP. It's the fact that snipers kill "out of the blue", and you "can't fight back". Snake Sellors wrote: @ rattati please do make the adjustments to nano hives for sniper rifles. is there any chance of adjusting the ammo skill.. 1 shot per point? only those willing to spend serious sp get extra 5, everyone else might skill to level 3. If you make the ammo skill give you 1 shot per point, won't that be unfair to tactical sniper users? Pulvereus ergo queritor.
George Moros RestlessSpirits 415	Posted - 2014.09.11 06:03:00 - [129] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: George Moros wrote: Current charge sniper has a range of 600m. Reducing the range to 400m (or even 350) will make the rifle lose much of it's "allure". Especially if it exists only in a 47k ISK proto variant (which I'm against). Also, body shotter or not, if you score a headshot with a (current) charge, you'll OHK almost everything but a heavy. This is not what I'm proposing. I'm simply against the idea that all snipers should so heavily rely on headshots to be effective. AFAIC, standard variant could be made as a "body shotter", and charge as a "head shotter". As long as people have the option to choose what suits them best, this balancing of sniper rifles can only make the game better and more interesting. Dunno the tactical seems to rely more on its RoF from what I am seeing. Yes, possible. However, even the proposed tactical has it's headshot bonus increased. Everything in the proposed changes seem to shout "go for the headshot". Look, I don't know how much experience you have in sniping (quite possibly, more than me), but I'm gonna say this anyway: In practice, it is extremely difficult to get reliable headshots (unless you're on some tower, more/less directly above your targets). You may get lucky with headshots in pubs, where you can probably find more noobs who will stand still for longer periods of time, but in PC (which is supposed to be the yardstick for any serious balancing) I doubt that anyone won't constantly wiggle around. Especially when they'll know that a headshot can OHK even their tanked-out proto suit. I worry that snipers will remain a "serious threat" only in pubs and, as far as "real utility" goes, they'll fall in the same category as plasma cannons or ion pistols. Especially when their range gets reduced, and they are forced out of the redline (at least, to some extent). When snipers start to be executed by shotgun scouts in frequent numbers, and once they realize they don't get much more efficiency for the risks they now have to "suffer", I worry that we may witness the death of the role. But maybe, I'm just plain wrong. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
Ronan Elsword Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 294	Posted - 2014.09.11 07:28:00 - [130] - Quote I'll definitely try all the variants out, but I think in the end I'll stick with my Tactical though. *Ode to the days before AA Hipfire was better than ads*

PROPHET HELLSCREAM UNSVER UNITED 8	Posted - 2014.09.11 09:52:00 - [131] - Quote George Moros wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: George Moros wrote: Current charge sniper has a range of 600m. Reducing the range to 400m (or even 350) will make the rifle lose much of it's "allure". Especially if it exists only in a 47k ISK proto variant (which I'm against). Also, body shotter or not, if you score a headshot with a (current) charge, you'll OHK almost everything but a heavy. This is not what I'm proposing. I'm simply against the idea that all snipers should so heavily rely on headshots to be effective. AFAIC, standard variant could be made as a "body shotter", and charge as a "head shotter". As long as people have the option to choose what suits them best, this balancing of sniper rifles can only make the game better and more interesting. Dunno the tactical seems to rely more on its RoF from what I am seeing. Yes, possible. However, even the proposed tactical has it's headshot bonus increased. Everything in the proposed changes seem to shout "go for the headshot". Look, I don't know how much experience you have in sniping (quite possibly, more than me), but I'm gonna say this anyway: In practice, it is extremely difficult to get reliable headshots (unless you're on some tower, more/less directly above your targets). You may get lucky with headshots in pubs, where you can probably find more noobs who will stand still for longer periods of time, but in PC (which is supposed to be the yardstick for any serious balancing) I doubt that anyone won't constantly wiggle around. Especially when they'll know that a headshot can OHK even their tanked-out proto suit. I worry that snipers will remain a "serious threat" only in pubs and, as far as "real utility" goes, they'll fall in the same category as plasma cannons or ion pistols. Especially when their range gets reduced, and they are forced out of the redline (at least, to some extent). When snipers start to be executed by shotgun scouts in frequent numbers, and once they realize they don't get much more efficiency for the risks they now have to "suffer", I worry that we may witness the death of the role. But maybe, I'm just plain wrong. You`re wrong ... and when in the fire i just need that buff on damage... all the other specs of the TAC SR can be the same. For some maps less shots to be detected the better! Hobby: Headshot on cloaked units
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 449	Posted - 2014.09.11 12:04:00 - [132] - Quote George Moros wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: easy there mate, i happen to like the charge as the type of rifle it falls into.... i can almost make do with a lower range given the extra damage to both both base and headshot, i do not want it to become a specific to one or the other, in this proposal it's the sniper style weapon. one shot one kill. As I understood Rattati's input, Charge doesn't receive any base damage buff. But maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, I think we should be very careful with the OHK doctrine here. If the charge (or any sniper) will allow for OHKs of some fancy proto assaults or even heavies, I think you'll see a new avalanche of rage against snipers. You have to understand that the primary cause of sniper hate is not that snipers are OP. It's the fact that snipers kill "out of the blue", and you "can't fight back". Snake Sellors wrote: @ rattati please do make the adjustments to nano hives for sniper rifles. is there any chance of adjusting the ammo skill.. 1 shot per point? only those willing to spend serious sp get extra 5, everyone else might skill to level 3. If you make the ammo skill give you 1 shot per point, won't that be unfair to tactical sniper users? I doubt it would.. they will already have more ammo and bigger clips. Not to mention that they can also skill into that and get their extra 5 bullets. And as I expect it would effect reserves then it wouldn't be game breaking. Something needs to be done about the skill at the moment it gives 15% at level 5. 15% of 15 is two bullets. Not really worth the cost in sp. As for the charge being unable to counter. It has less range the standard variants, less fire rate, less ammo capacity, less clip capacity and requires charging between shots. The out of the blue bit, all snipers will be able to do that. Even that tac it will fire five rounds faster than a charge will shoot 2. From 300m away. Last I saw of the details based damage is going up on all of them, it's just a matter of how much that separates the various weapons
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 500	Posted - 2014.09.11 13:44:00 - [133] - Quote Rattati, how did you land on 350, 400, 450 meters effective range? Can you help us visualize that? What's an example from one of the maps of a distance of 400m? Like between sockets.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2123	Posted - 2014.09.11 15:55:00 - [134] - Quote Admittedly, I haven't sniped regularly since Chromosome (this is because sniping the way I am used to has never existed in Dust and what I consider an acceptable substitute went away when Manus Peak became Manus Mesa). However, I want to contribute more to the discussion than I have already. IMHO, all should have the same range and zoom. Basic SRs Highest Damage Midrange RoF Lowest headshot multiplier Charge Midrange Damage Slowest RoF Highest headshot multiplier Tac Lowest Damage Highest RoF Midrange headshot multiplier Thales should take the best in each category. I also think that there should be a version of each at each tier "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4027	Posted - 2014.09.11 16:31:00 - [135] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Tyjus Vacca wrote: if you cant hit him just move out of his range.....he literally has no chance of hitting you past 250 meters....and if your crouched of course hes gonna hit you try strafing Now I know you're trolling. "Try strafing". With my sniper rifle. When I NEED consecutive headshots to kill him. Snipers don't have the luxury of strafing, you idiot. Tyjus is to sniping as Mr. Mustard or Mollerz is to knives. I don't think he would troll you on this topic brother. You can always tell a Millford Minja
The Minoan ManiacArchon Max-Pain-inc Dark Taboo 22	Posted - 2014.09.11 16:43:00 - [136] - Quote I'm pretty sure I'll be ignored or hated for saying this, with nothing in between, but here goes. If you want to eliminate redzone sniping, you should: 1) Increase the graphics fidelity at large distances (eliminate the "invisible hill bug"). 2) INCREASE the sniper's range to enable redzone-to-redzone countersniping. The only attraction for redzone sniping now is that any potential counter snipers are exposing themselves to all of the other roles in the battlefield. If you make countersniping feasible you will also see the number of snipers dropping dramatically!!! And before everyone starts hating, isn't it logical for a team that has 1 sniper to lose to one that has none? Besides, that's how it is now in game anyway... However I must agree with the Thale's having the same zoom as everything else. P.S. I have also come across this weird "bug" which I think has to do with how the distance ties in to what is displayed by the graphics. In "Line Harvest" (the one with the 6 tall towers), when I was on top of one of the towers I couldn't see a guy sniping from the edge of a tower opposite me, but when I dropped to the base of the tower (longer actual distance: pythagorean theorem) I could. I'm pretty sure it wasn't just me and that it is the actual behaviour of the game. Which, if it is, should be corrected. P.S.2 I also agree to having a variant of every rifle at every tier.
Appia Vibbia 3775	Posted - 2014.09.11 17:08:00 - [137] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Rattati, how did you land on 350, 400, 450 meters effective range? Can you help us visualize that? What's an example from one of the maps of a distance of 400m? Like between sockets. Ashland, the map with the pipeline, from [E] to [D] is about 250m. From red-line to red-line is about 350m Spine Crescent, the map with the bridge and 2 points near it and an outpost off to the side. From the Red-line to [A] is about 450m. Red line to red line is about 750m on the bridge side, 900 on the outpost side. Fractrure Road, the map with a giant road and ridge dividing one side from another, the distance between each point on that map is about 350m [D] --> [A] --> [B] --> [C], red-line to red-line is about 1400m *numbers rounded to the nearest 50 Personal Theme Song
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4842	Posted - 2014.09.11 17:51:00 - [138] - Quote The Minoan ManiacArchon wrote: And before everyone starts hating, isn't it logical for a team that has 1 sniper to lose to one that has none? Besides, that's how it is now in game anyway... I find the opposite to be the case. The more bluedots sniping in Skirm or Dom, the more likely we are to lose a match. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1089	Posted - 2014.09.11 18:16:00 - [139] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: The Minoan ManiacArchon wrote: And before everyone starts hating, isn't it logical for a team that has 1 sniper to lose to one that has none? Besides, that's how it is now in game anyway... I find the opposite to be the case. The more bluedots sniping in Skirm or Dom, the more likely we are to lose a match. 1 sniper > 6 snipers. If you see an inordinate number of blueberries setting up to snipe at the very outset of a match, just hit the supply depot, switch to a frontline suit and leave battle. You already know how it's going to go. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Super Sniper95 Remember MAG... 226	Posted - 2014.09.11 18:53:00 - [140] - Quote I like this changes, I agree with everything. But I think reducing Charge SR clip size its too rude, because you are reducing its ammo capacity already, thats enough. Or you reduce its clip size retaining ammo capacity, or reduce ammo capacity retaining clip size. CCP please don't reduce Sniper Rifle range. If you do it I will be sad...

voidfaction Nos Nothi 517	Posted - 2014.09.11 20:06:00 - [141] - Quote The beauty of the range nerf. less viable in redline and towers with heavy suit means less snipers in a match. Ill be pulling out my cal and gal scout sniper fittings much more after delta. THANK YOU CPP All the changes are a buff in my eyes. Ammo nerf LOL. less shots needed to kill means less ammo needed. My problem is with less ammo my fast compact resupply and consume wont work as before (FULL sniper resupply and throw 1 nade to consume) CURSE YOU CPP. Now I might be able to get 2 FULL sniper resupplies out of 1 compact forcing me to hide them to get a 2nd use out of them. Can you make a compact hive that resupplies 1/2 of current but comes with 2 I can use with regular and charge sniper. I have a feeling the present compact is going to work great with the TAC.
Mike De Luca STOP TRYING TO RECRUIT ME 304	Posted - 2014.09.11 22:10:00 - [142] - Quote Probably gonna end up trading my charge for a regular sr, but overall I'm kinda liking it. Gonna hold off on final judgements until you have actual damage numbers in mind. what i think of when charging fg
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. 827	Posted - 2014.09.11 22:54:00 - [143] - Quote Any serious sniper would no longer use the Charge Sniper Rifle is the clip size was reduced to 3. It's nonsense, and ruins the gun. Keep the headshot damage same as standard (they only increased the charge by 25%) for 2 additional bullets in IWS model. The ability to be a one shot wonder on a headshot, when headshot damage is already being significantly increased is essentially making the Charge Sniper Rifle, not worth using. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 489	Posted - 2014.09.11 22:59:00 - [144] - Quote The range nerf? I'm fine with that. I'm never in the red line anyways. In fact I'm normally hiding in plain sight. I also love the other changes suggested on the whole. It makes Sniping more of a skill and will separate the wheat from the chaff really quickly. The ONLY thing that I see as an issue has been brought up; the Charge magazine/ammo capacity. 3 Round Mags and a 15 round max capacity when headshots are going to be so pertinent seem like a little too large of a nerf. I'm O.K. with the 3 round mags, but why only 15 rounds total? As has been stated, that requires nanohives. Nanohives stand out like little beacons on the hillside/ground/building/etc. saying "there is a sniper nearby. Find him and kill him." I hide them, of course, but every once in a while I know I am able to see the pulsing even on the backside of a rock or hill. I love your suggestion of not having the Sniper Rifles be so thirsty in draining Nanohives. That way they last that little bit longer and give enough for an extra refill. Of course, I don't know how many Snipers are going to be in one place long enough to be able to use a single nanohive to reload that many times. I have a couple sweet spots on maps where I can get into a little cubby and sit there pretty much the entire match with an overwatch on the Objective in Dom and on multiple Objectives in Skirm, so I know it is possible. I would propose a slight change to the suggested numbers for Charge; Give us 18 rounds instead of 15 (one extra 3 round mag isn't that big of a difference). The second thing that almost has to be NECESSARY would be to change the ammo capacity skill set on snipers. I'm sorry, but 2 rounds at level 5 (15%) is way to little for the amount of SP people have put into it. 17 rounds vs 15 isn't enough to justify it. My suggestion would be each Level 1-3 gives in Ammo Capacity skill gives 1 extra round and levels 4-5 give 2 extra rounds. With my suggestion, at level 5 the user gets a total of 7 extra rounds. That would put the Charge at 25 total rounds carried (with the base of 18 as I stated), which is right in line with where it is now and still give the Tac SR and other variants enough extra rounds to make it advantageous. This way the people who skill into Snipers will have a decided advantage over the FOTM chasers. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 489	Posted - 2014.09.11 23:06:00 - [145] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Any serious sniper would no longer use the Charge Sniper Rifle is the clip size was reduced to 3. It's nonsense, and ruins the gun. Keep the headshot damage same as standard (they only increased the charge by 25%) for 2 additional bullets in IWS model. The ability to be a one shot wonder on a headshot, when headshot damage is already being significantly increased is essentially making the Charge Sniper Rifle, not worth using. I defer to you when it comes to all things Sniper, but I have to ask. With rapid reload at 5, as long as we get an increased total amount of ammo carried, is the 3 round magazine going to be that much of a deterrent? You can get reloaded in about , what, 4 seconds or less? With the headshot bonus giving the ability to basically OHK anything on the field short of a fully tanked Amarr Sent, the need for the larger magazines shouldn't be quite as essential. What do you think of my proposal, but adding in a change to magazine capacity per skill level as well? Maybe level 3 gets 1 extra round and level 5 gets 2 extra rounds per magazine? That would mean those Snipers who have skilled into it get an extra advantage in addition to total ammo carried. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. 828	Posted - 2014.09.12 00:03:00 - [146] - Quote I know what I want to say, but how to say it.. Current Review : Charge Sniper Rifle The most viable sniper rifle at consistently killing infantry if you're a rather accurate marksman. For those who miss more often or like a higher rate of fire the Ishukone (standard) sniper rifle is preferred. The Charge Sniper Rifle with the highest base damage rewards you with more damage for headshots. As it should because it's a charge to fire mechanic. You can skill consistently kill players by going for body shots, usually at a ratio of 2,3,4 for scout, assault, heavy. (prototype suits) IWS Suggested : Charge Sniper Rifle All in on headshots. You will be reloading 40% more than you currently do. Assuming you always wait until the rifle is empty to reload. In reality since it takes at least 2 shots to kill the weakest of suits with bodyshots, you will be reloading anytime the clip isn't full. (prototype) Having 3 bullets would afford you 1 miss. It used to be the most consistent sniper rifle, but no longer. You'll be wasting precious time missing on headshots all match. (Which are more of a bonus in reality, unless the target is stationary) Since partially obscured moving targets on uneven terrain is commonplace, this rifle is best suited to counter-sniping. Think of it like the new Tactical Sniper Sniper. Then think of the new Tactical Sniper Rifle as something closer to a quickscoping sniper rifle. You're turning my favorite rifle, and many others into an abomination. For no reason. If you watch some my videos you'll see that often times I use my first shot to feel out my target. Think tracer round. I'm serious, a large amount of the time I miss my first shot on a somebody, the second shot however has an insanely high hit percentage compared to the first. Limiting the clip size to three makes this kind of shooting not worth the time it'll take me to constantly have to reload. Thus, making the rifle inferior at pretty much everything when compared to the standard variant. The one with 2 more bullets, close to the same headshot damage, and no charge time. I'll say it one last time, players won't be going for bodyshot kills with this gun at all. And the standard sniper rifle will suffer the same problem, headshot damage is increased, but bodyshot damage is still awful. All of this combined will have players, including myself using sniper rifles as headshot only weapons (essentially) That's boring. Inconsistent. Situational. #nobodyaskedforthis #kindalikethenewSRcrosshair #yourefired Sniping Dust 514 (video series)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6954	Posted - 2014.09.12 00:45:00 - [147] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: I know what I want to say, but how to say it.. Current Review : Charge Sniper Rifle The most viable sniper rifle at consistently killing infantry if you're a rather accurate marksman. For those who miss more often or like a higher rate of fire the Ishukone (standard) sniper rifle is preferred. The Charge Sniper Rifle with the highest base damage rewards you with more damage for headshots. As it should because it's a charge to fire mechanic. You can still consistently kill players by going for body shots, usually at a rate of 2,3,4 for scout, assault, heavy. (prototype suits) IWS Suggested : Charge Sniper Rifle All in on headshots. You will be reloading 40% more than you currently do. Assuming you always wait until the rifle is empty to reload. In reality since it takes at least 2 shots to kill the weakest of suits with bodyshots, you will be reloading anytime the clip isn't full. (prototype) Having 3 bullets would afford you 1 miss. It used to be the most consistent sniper rifle, but no longer. You'll be wasting precious time missing on headshots all match. (Which are more of a bonus in reality, unless the target is stationary) Since partially obscured moving targets on uneven terrain is commonplace, this rifle is best suited to counter-sniping. Think of it like the new Tactical Sniper Sniper. Then think of the new Tactical Sniper Rifle as something closer to a quickscoping sniper rifle. You're turning my favorite rifle, and many others into an abomination. For no reason. If you watch some my videos you'll see that often times I use my first shot to feel out my target. Think tracer round. I'm serious, a large amount of the time I miss my first shot on a somebody, the second shot however has an insanely high hit percentage compared to the first. Limiting the clip size to three makes this kind of shooting not worth the time it'll take me to constantly have to reload. Thus, making the rifle inferior at pretty much everything when compared to the standard variant. The one with 2 more bullets, close to the same headshot damage, and no charge time. I'll say it one last time, players won't be going for bodyshot kills with this gun at all. And the standard sniper rifle will suffer the same problem, headshot damage is increased, but bodyshot damage is still awful. All of this combined will have players, including myself using sniper rifles as headshot only weapons (essentially) That's boring. Inconsistent. Situational. #nobodyaskedforthis #yourefired First of all, these are CCP changes, not IWS. I personally made the 3 shot change from the suggested 4 because we are tracking multiple ratios, dmg/clip, head dmg/clip, dps/range and fully modded alphas and comparing against the other snipers. And honestly, a 4-3 clip goes from Fine to Abomination. If you want to OHK a Sentinel, you are trading that alpha for number of shots. This is all debatable, but let's do it with less drama, and more facts. Not set in stone yet, but will be very soon. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Joel II X Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3373	Posted - 2014.09.12 01:02:00 - [148] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: Will the Thale's continue to work along the lines of the Garden Variety Sniper Rifle with Charge-caliber damage, Garden Variety clip and improved zoom? As for the Charge, define "smallest clip and ammo". I don't use the TacSR now and probably will continue to not do so as lining up a headshot at relatively close range against a dropsuit zig-zagging toward me is outside of my ability. But the proposal seems to accomplish what you set out to do for the TacSR (i.e.: giving it a niche). I need those first two questions answered before I can be 'okay' with this nerf, though. Thale's will be an improved "normal" sniper rifle, with the same zoom. The Thale's zoom will be removed from the game. Charged Sniper - 3 shot clip, 15 ammo. You can call it a nerf all you want, we think it is a massive buff to headshots and the role. 15 max ammo? That's the only change I disapprove of. Loving every change, but 15 max ammo? C'mon. 18 max ammo, please. That's 6 mags per rifle instead of 5. Also, will the Charge be given more damage per shot/charge than the standard? It doesn't have a much higher headshot percentage, and with the less range, I expect it be used for body shots more often than not (one shot, one kill).
Tyjus Vacca The United Socialist Liberation Front 269	Posted - 2014.09.12 01:22:00 - [149] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Any serious sniper would no longer use the Charge Sniper Rifle if the clip size was reduced to 3. It's nonsense, and ruins the gun. Keep the headshot damage same as standard (they only increased the charge by 25%) for 2 additional bullets in IWS model. The ability to be a one shot wonder on a headshot, when headshot damage is already being significantly increased is essentially making the Charge Sniper Rifle, not worth using. Idk the charge sniper rifle practically guarantees a one shot head shot and thats a pretty big deal in my book .....personally I will not be using the charge ( "I cant stand the buzzing") but it will be the best counter for snipers,forges, or heavies but Ill save my judgements till after the hotfix drops I would advise the same for you we all may be pleasantly suprised sniper changes !!? O_o
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 490	Posted - 2014.09.12 01:36:00 - [150] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: I know what I want to say, but how to say it.. Current Review : Charge Sniper Rifle The most viable sniper rifle at consistently killing infantry if you're a rather accurate marksman. For those who miss more often or like a higher rate of fire the Ishukone (standard) sniper rifle is preferred. The Charge Sniper Rifle with the highest base damage rewards you with more damage for headshots. As it should because it's a charge to fire mechanic. You can still consistently kill players by going for body shots, usually at a rate of 2,3,4 for scout, assault, heavy. (prototype suits) IWS Suggested : Charge Sniper Rifle All in on headshots. You will be reloading 40% more than you currently do. Assuming you always wait until the rifle is empty to reload. In reality since it takes at least 2 shots to kill the weakest of suits with bodyshots, you will be reloading anytime the clip isn't full. (prototype) Having 3 bullets would afford you 1 miss. It used to be the most consistent sniper rifle, but no longer. You'll be wasting precious time missing on headshots all match. (Which are more of a bonus in reality, unless the target is stationary) Since partially obscured moving targets on uneven terrain is commonplace, this rifle is best suited to counter-sniping. Think of it like the new Tactical Sniper Sniper. Then think of the new Tactical Sniper Rifle as something closer to a quickscoping sniper rifle. You're turning my favorite rifle, and many others into an abomination. For no reason. If you watch some my videos you'll see that often times I use my first shot to feel out my target. Think tracer round. I'm serious, a large amount of the time I miss my first shot on a somebody, the second shot however has an insanely high hit percentage compared to the first. Limiting the clip size to three makes this kind of shooting not worth the time it'll take me to constantly have to reload. Thus, making the rifle inferior at pretty much everything when compared to the standard variant. The one with 2 more bullets, close to the same headshot damage, and no charge time. I'll say it one last time, players won't be going for bodyshot kills with this gun at all. And the standard sniper rifle will suffer the same problem, headshot damage is increased, but bodyshot damage is still awful. All of this combined will have players, including myself using sniper rifles as headshot only weapons (essentially) That's boring. Inconsistent. Situational. #nobodyaskedforthis #yourefired First of all, these are CCP changes, not IWS. I personally made the 3 shot change from the suggested 4 because we are tracking multiple ratios, dmg/clip, head dmg/clip, dps/range and fully modded alphas and comparing against the other snipers. And honestly, a 4-3 clip goes from Fine to Abomination. If you want to OHK a Sentinel, you are trading that alpha for number of shots. This is all debatable, but let's do it with less drama, and more facts. Not set in stone yet, but will be very soon. What about changes to the proficiency skill to give us more ammo capacity and/or a larger clip? 2 extra rounds at level 5 proficiency isn't exactly what I would call a good return on investment. I also want to reiterate my love of your idea to cut down on how quickly the SR's suck nanohives dry. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6957	Posted - 2014.09.12 02:01:00 - [151] - Quote Joel II X wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: Will the Thale's continue to work along the lines of the Garden Variety Sniper Rifle with Charge-caliber damage, Garden Variety clip and improved zoom? As for the Charge, define "smallest clip and ammo". I don't use the TacSR now and probably will continue to not do so as lining up a headshot at relatively close range against a dropsuit zig-zagging toward me is outside of my ability. But the proposal seems to accomplish what you set out to do for the TacSR (i.e.: giving it a niche). I need those first two questions answered before I can be 'okay' with this nerf, though. Thale's will be an improved "normal" sniper rifle, with the same zoom. The Thale's zoom will be removed from the game. Charged Sniper - 3 shot clip, 15 ammo. You can call it a nerf all you want, we think it is a massive buff to headshots and the role. 15 max ammo? That's the only change I disapprove of. Loving every change, but 15 max ammo? C'mon. 18 max ammo, please. That's 6 mags per rifle instead of 5. Also, will the Charge be given more damage per shot/charge than the standard? It doesn't have a much higher headshot percentage, and with the less range, I expect it be used for body shots more often than not (one shot, one kill). That's literally no problem. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Tech De Ra Electronic Sports League 798	Posted - 2014.09.12 07:43:00 - [152] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Joel II X wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: Will the Thale's continue to work along the lines of the Garden Variety Sniper Rifle with Charge-caliber damage, Garden Variety clip and improved zoom? As for the Charge, define "smallest clip and ammo". I don't use the TacSR now and probably will continue to not do so as lining up a headshot at relatively close range against a dropsuit zig-zagging toward me is outside of my ability. But the proposal seems to accomplish what you set out to do for the TacSR (i.e.: giving it a niche). I need those first two questions answered before I can be 'okay' with this nerf, though. Thale's will be an improved "normal" sniper rifle, with the same zoom. The Thale's zoom will be removed from the game. Charged Sniper - 3 shot clip, 15 ammo. You can call it a nerf all you want, we think it is a massive buff to headshots and the role. 15 max ammo? That's the only change I disapprove of. Loving every change, but 15 max ammo? C'mon. 18 max ammo, please. That's 6 mags per rifle instead of 5. Also, will the Charge be given more damage per shot/charge than the standard? It doesn't have a much higher headshot percentage, and with the less range, I expect it be used for body shots more often than not (one shot, one kill). That's literally no problem. I assume ratatti means to say "yes" to the charge rifle doing more damage to body shots, because its a low DPS rifle with high alpha Prime League champion SGL Sidearm champion Fanfest '14 All star champion
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. 832	Posted - 2014.09.12 07:44:00 - [153] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: First of all, these are CCP changes, not IWS. I personally made the 3 shot change from the suggested 4 because we are tracking multiple ratios, dmg/clip, head dmg/clip, dps/range and fully modded alphas and comparing against the other snipers. And honestly, a 4-3 clip goes from Fine to Abomination. If you want to OHK a Sentinel, you are trading that alpha for number of shots. This is all debatable, but let's do it with less drama, and more facts. Not set in stone yet, but will be very soon. The charge should have more damage per clip, otherwise there would be no charge time. I just think changing the clip size of the charge without a significant base damage increase removes bodyshot sniper rifle play from the game. The standard sniper rifle used to one hit kill on headshots anything except ultra tanked heavies. The return to the original vision is fine, in fact the standard doing 1000-1200 damage on a headshot is great, and allows you to immediately follow up with a body shot for the kill. What I'm asking for, is the charge sniper rifle with the same headshot multiplier as the standard, and with the clip size of 5. One major concern is that for PC, you can't go for headshots as a primary means of detterence. Often times they're laggy, in fact any match that has equipment spam or suffers from graphical lag headshots are almost out of the question. Meaning what sniper rifle does one use when it's like this? I would go for something that hits hard, so long as I hit someone. Obviously the charge sniper rifle. Anyway you get that I'm not happy with the change, I'm sure you see why. If you can find some sort of work around to have the clip size be something more than 3 and not have the charge sniper rifle become come the new Kaalakiota, I would greatly appreciate that. I really don't want to spend the entire match going for headshots, and there isn't a body shot type rifle left if you do this. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Tech De Ra Electronic Sports League 798	Posted - 2014.09.12 07:48:00 - [154] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: The charge should have more damage per clip The standard sniper has more damage per clip over a much longer time, the charge has the highest damage per shot Prime League champion SGL Sidearm champion Fanfest '14 All star champion
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2735	Posted - 2014.09.12 10:15:00 - [155] - Quote Oh yay OHK vs. Sentinel will be a thing then. At least I'll be able to fire back at you now. Will the old tracer contrail be making a return? The hit indicator on the hud sucks horrendously for helping spot attackers.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16414	Posted - 2014.09.12 11:45:00 - [156] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: First of all, these are CCP changes, not IWS. I personally made the 3 shot change from the suggested 4 because we are tracking multiple ratios, dmg/clip, head dmg/clip, dps/range and fully modded alphas and comparing against the other snipers. And honestly, a 4-3 clip goes from Fine to Abomination. If you want to OHK a Sentinel, you are trading that alpha for number of shots. This is all debatable, but let's do it with less drama, and more facts. Not set in stone yet, but will be very soon. The charge should have more damage per clip, otherwise there would be no charge time. I just think changing the clip size of the charge without a significant base damage increase removes bodyshot sniper rifle play from the game. The standard sniper rifle used to one hit kill on headshots anything except ultra tanked heavies. The return to the original vision is fine, in fact the standard doing 1000-1200 damage on a headshot is great, and allows you to immediately follow up with a body shot for the kill. What I'm asking for, is the charge sniper rifle with the same headshot multiplier as the standard, and with the clip size of 5. One major concern is that for PC, you can't go for headshots as a primary means of detterence. Often times they're laggy, in fact any match that has equipment spam or suffers from graphical lag headshots are almost out of the question. Meaning what sniper rifle does one use when it's like this? I would go for something that hits hard, so long as I hit someone. Obviously the charge sniper rifle. Anyway you get that I'm not happy with the change, I'm sure you see why. If you can find some sort of work around to have the clip size be something more than 3 and not have the charge sniper rifle become come the new Kaalakiota, I would greatly appreciate that. I really don't want to spend the entire match going for headshots, and there isn't a body shot type rifle left if you do this. Currently the charge rifle and standard rifle offers the same magazine size and yet charge rifle is widely immensely more popular. To be honest the new headshot bonuses between ishukone sniper and the wiyrkomi charge rifle wouldn't change the dynamic of the want to use one rifle over the other, the range advantage the ishukone will enjoy is fleeting at best against MOST targets as expected engagement ranges will be well within range and not near the edge of the range. So this brings in the question as to why I would even bother using an Ishukone? When the Wykromi is so much superior? The body shot damage is immensely powerful vs the ishukone and the headshot is going to be ever as lethal as the rest of the rifles. The fitting is not getting messed with. I wouldn't touch the charge time with a 10ft pole that is now how you discourage the use of a gun that mostly works mechanically. Lowering the range any further is not a really good option. ROF is null and moot until you get to 29 rpm Sway is not getting adjusted if anything not improved. This leaves us with every few options Namely Damage (which isn't budging) Headshot bonus (which is comparatively powerful) Zoom, and max ammo and clip size. The max ammo and clip size is probably considered a significant enough but less of the evils necessary to ensure the ishukone remains as popular as the wykromi. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Advanced Large Railgun =// Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16414	Posted - 2014.09.12 11:45:00 - [157] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Oh yay OHK vs. Sentinel will be a thing then. At least I'll be able to fire back at you now. Will the old tracer contrail be making a return? The hit indicator on the hud sucks horrendously for helping spot attackers. I have noted this is an issue with rendering distance namely if you cannot see the source (shooter) you don't see the projectile . CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Advanced Large Railgun =// Unlocked
PROPHET HELLSCREAM UNSVER UNITED 8	Posted - 2014.09.12 13:13:00 - [158] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: First of all, these are CCP changes, not IWS. I personally made the 3 shot change from the suggested 4 because we are tracking multiple ratios, dmg/clip, head dmg/clip, dps/range and fully modded alphas and comparing against the other snipers. And honestly, a 4-3 clip goes from Fine to Abomination. If you want to OHK a Sentinel, you are trading that alpha for number of shots. This is all debatable, but let's do it with less drama, and more facts. Not set in stone yet, but will be very soon. The charge should have more damage per clip, otherwise there would be no charge time. I just think changing the clip size of the charge without a significant base damage increase removes bodyshot sniper rifle play from the game. The standard sniper rifle used to one hit kill on headshots anything except ultra tanked heavies. The return to the original vision is fine, in fact the standard doing 1000-1200 damage on a headshot is great, and allows you to immediately follow up with a body shot for the kill. What I'm asking for, is the charge sniper rifle with the same headshot multiplier as the standard, and with the clip size of 5. One major concern is that for PC, you can't go for headshots as a primary means of detterence. Often times they're laggy, in fact any match that has equipment spam or suffers from graphical lag headshots are almost out of the question. Meaning what sniper rifle does one use when it's like this? I would go for something that hits hard, so long as I hit someone. Obviously the charge sniper rifle. Anyway you get that I'm not happy with the change, I'm sure you see why. If you can find some sort of work around to have the clip size be something more than 3 and not have the charge sniper rifle become come the new Kaalakiota, I would greatly appreciate that. I really don't want to spend the entire match going for headshots, and there isn't a body shot type rifle left if you do this. Currently the charge rifle and standard rifle offers the same magazine size and yet charge rifle is widely immensely more popular. To be honest the new headshot bonuses between ishukone sniper and the wiyrkomi charge rifle wouldn't change the dynamic of the want to use one rifle over the other, the range advantage the ishukone will enjoy is fleeting at best against MOST targets as expected engagement ranges will be well within range and not near the edge of the range. So this brings in the question as to why I would even bother using an Ishukone? When the Wykromi is so much superior? The body shot damage is immensely powerful vs the ishukone and the headshot is going to be ever as lethal as the rest of the rifles. The fitting is not getting messed with. I wouldn't touch the charge time with a 10ft pole that is now how you discourage the use of a gun that mostly works mechanically. Lowering the range any further is not a really good option. ROF is null and moot until you get to 29 rpm Sway is not getting adjusted if anything not improved. This leaves us with every few options Namely Damage (which isn't budging) Headshot bonus (which is comparatively powerful) Zoom, and max ammo and clip size. The max ammo and clip size is probably considered a significant enough but less of the evils necessary to ensure the ishukone remains as popular as the wykromi. Now i don`t understand some things here... but isn`t the base damaged be the same as they are now? if only the headshots are buffed the charged rilfe will have limitations... targets are not still... the relation between clip size and rof don`t limits the use of the charged? Today i prefer the ishukone or kalakyota over the charged... if the headshots are the only thing buffed i will continue to prefer the ishukone... ps: what about the noise of the charged... can`t do anything about it...?? Hobby: Headshot on cloaked units

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6968	Posted - 2014.09.12 13:41:00 - [159] - Quote PROPHET HELLSCREAM wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: First of all, these are CCP changes, not IWS. I personally made the 3 shot change from the suggested 4 because we are tracking multiple ratios, dmg/clip, head dmg/clip, dps/range and fully modded alphas and comparing against the other snipers. And honestly, a 4-3 clip goes from Fine to Abomination. If you want to OHK a Sentinel, you are trading that alpha for number of shots. This is all debatable, but let's do it with less drama, and more facts. Not set in stone yet, but will be very soon. The charge should have more damage per clip, otherwise there would be no charge time. I just think changing the clip size of the charge without a significant base damage increase removes bodyshot sniper rifle play from the game. The standard sniper rifle used to one hit kill on headshots anything except ultra tanked heavies. The return to the original vision is fine, in fact the standard doing 1000-1200 damage on a headshot is great, and allows you to immediately follow up with a body shot for the kill. What I'm asking for, is the charge sniper rifle with the same headshot multiplier as the standard, and with the clip size of 5. One major concern is that for PC, you can't go for headshots as a primary means of detterence. Often times they're laggy, in fact any match that has equipment spam or suffers from graphical lag headshots are almost out of the question. Meaning what sniper rifle does one use when it's like this? I would go for something that hits hard, so long as I hit someone. Obviously the charge sniper rifle. Anyway you get that I'm not happy with the change, I'm sure you see why. If you can find some sort of work around to have the clip size be something more than 3 and not have the charge sniper rifle become come the new Kaalakiota, I would greatly appreciate that. I really don't want to spend the entire match going for headshots, and there isn't a body shot type rifle left if you do this. Currently the charge rifle and standard rifle offers the same magazine size and yet charge rifle is widely immensely more popular. To be honest the new headshot bonuses between ishukone sniper and the wiyrkomi charge rifle wouldn't change the dynamic of the want to use one rifle over the other, the range advantage the ishukone will enjoy is fleeting at best against MOST targets as expected engagement ranges will be well within range and not near the edge of the range. So this brings in the question as to why I would even bother using an Ishukone? When the Wykromi is so much superior? The body shot damage is immensely powerful vs the ishukone and the headshot is going to be ever as lethal as the rest of the rifles. The fitting is not getting messed with. I wouldn't touch the charge time with a 10ft pole that is now how you discourage the use of a gun that mostly works mechanically. Lowering the range any further is not a really good option. ROF is null and moot until you get to 29 rpm Sway is not getting adjusted if anything not improved. This leaves us with every few options Namely Damage (which isn't budging) Headshot bonus (which is comparatively powerful) Zoom, and max ammo and clip size. The max ammo and clip size is probably considered a significant enough but less of the evils necessary to ensure the ishukone remains as popular as the wykromi. Now i don`t understand some things here... but isn`t the base damaged be the same as they are now? if only the headshots are buffed the charged rilfe will have limitations... targets are not still... the relation between clip size and rof don`t limits the use of the charged? Today i prefer the ishukone or kalakyota over the charged... if the headshots are the only thing buffed i will continue to prefer the ishukone... ps: what about the noise of the charged... can`t do anything about it...?? I will post numbers over the weekend "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2812	Posted - 2014.09.12 14:27:00 - [160] - Quote Can we have images of the zoom level at each rifle max range? Or is it the same we have now? PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS

Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 453	Posted - 2014.09.12 16:33:00 - [161] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: PROPHET HELLSCREAM wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: First of all, these are CCP changes, not IWS. I personally made the 3 shot change from the suggested 4 because we are tracking multiple ratios, dmg/clip, head dmg/clip, dps/range and fully modded alphas and comparing against the other snipers. And honestly, a 4-3 clip goes from Fine to Abomination. If you want to OHK a Sentinel, you are trading that alpha for number of shots. This is all debatable, but let's do it with less drama, and more facts. Not set in stone yet, but will be very soon. The charge should have more damage per clip, otherwise there would be no charge time. I just think changing the clip size of the charge without a significant base damage increase removes bodyshot sniper rifle play from the game. The standard sniper rifle used to one hit kill on headshots anything except ultra tanked heavies. The return to the original vision is fine, in fact the standard doing 1000-1200 damage on a headshot is great, and allows you to immediately follow up with a body shot for the kill. What I'm asking for, is the charge sniper rifle with the same headshot multiplier as the standard, and with the clip size of 5. One major concern is that for PC, you can't go for headshots as a primary means of detterence. Often times they're laggy, in fact any match that has equipment spam or suffers from graphical lag headshots are almost out of the question. Meaning what sniper rifle does one use when it's like this? I would go for something that hits hard, so long as I hit someone. Obviously the charge sniper rifle. Anyway you get that I'm not happy with the change, I'm sure you see why. If you can find some sort of work around to have the clip size be something more than 3 and not have the charge sniper rifle become come the new Kaalakiota, I would greatly appreciate that. I really don't want to spend the entire match going for headshots, and there isn't a body shot type rifle left if you do this. Currently the charge rifle and standard rifle offers the same magazine size and yet charge rifle is widely immensely more popular. To be honest the new headshot bonuses between ishukone sniper and the wiyrkomi charge rifle wouldn't change the dynamic of the want to use one rifle over the other, the range advantage the ishukone will enjoy is fleeting at best against MOST targets as expected engagement ranges will be well within range and not near the edge of the range. So this brings in the question as to why I would even bother using an Ishukone? When the Wykromi is so much superior? The body shot damage is immensely powerful vs the ishukone and the headshot is going to be ever as lethal as the rest of the rifles. The fitting is not getting messed with. I wouldn't touch the charge time with a 10ft pole that is now how you discourage the use of a gun that mostly works mechanically. Lowering the range any further is not a really good option. ROF is null and moot until you get to 29 rpm Sway is not getting adjusted if anything not improved. This leaves us with every few options Namely Damage (which isn't budging) Headshot bonus (which is comparatively powerful) Zoom, and max ammo and clip size. The max ammo and clip size is probably considered a significant enough but less of the evils necessary to ensure the ishukone remains as popular as the wykromi. Now i don`t understand some things here... but isn`t the base damaged be the same as they are now? if only the headshots are buffed the charged rilfe will have limitations... targets are not still... the relation between clip size and rof don`t limits the use of the charged? Today i prefer the ishukone or kalakyota over the charged... if the headshots are the only thing buffed i will continue to prefer the ishukone... ps: what about the noise of the charged... can`t do anything about it...?? I will post numbers over the weekend Yay... gimme, gimme, gimme. any more thoughts on the ammo skill or the nano hive changes?
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2014.09.12 18:20:00 - [162] - Quote I really love the changes to the TAC sniper rifle. Bigger clip was a must if you're that close to the fight. Brilliant.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1109	Posted - 2014.09.12 22:40:00 - [163] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Will the Tac be functioning as a DMR? Please say the Tac will function as a DMR, I miss groundsniping I think it may evolve into that, let's see how this urban tactical sniper works damage wise, and then we can look at sway and "stand and shoot". Soraya actually reprimanded me in skype just now, "it's not stand and shoot, just crouch and shoot" :) What's the intended range? If the low end is in the 60-100 range I don't see why I would use it over my beloved scrambler rifle, especially if I have to crouch just to get rid of the horrible sway. It just screams "HEY YOU! YEAH YOU COME SHOOT AT ME I'M STANDING STILL. EASY HEADSHOTS BRO." Amarrica! It's Not Safe to Swim.
Steel Knee Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 6	Posted - 2014.09.13 03:22:00 - [164] - Quote Can we get a module that reduces headshot damage? The most frustrating thing for me is deaths I can't do anything about (such as ohk from a significant diatance). Choosing not to do anything about it makes all the difference.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7015	Posted - 2014.09.13 16:24:00 - [165] - Quote Thanks for the discussion, we will be sharing numbers when they are finalized. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"



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