You can still stand and shoot with max skills, at a somewhat good efficiency. In Delta it might be a little more of move, crouch and shoot to be honest. We want to see first how it pans out in Delta, collect data, and then maybe decrease sway on the TacSR to fit the role better.

This got me thinking.

I know we've got the nanohives, and that's well and good, but consider also giving us a low-slot module to increase ammo carried. Think along the lines of the modules for Vehicle ammo storage. Low slots modules for Light, Heavy, and Sidearm ammo capacity. Tie it to the Handheld Weapon Upgrades skill.

Those of us who're sniping to be snipers, and not to be "safe" in heavily tanked suits, will run an ammo storage module in our low(s) and be even less tanky/more easy to kill than we already were.

I'm not even trolling.

I've got the ammo capacity skill at only one or two for the SR, whatever skill level gives the current Charge SR 5 in the clip and 21 in reserve. I'd sacrifice a module slot to get that 15 back up to the 21 I have now.

I don't know if you know this but the zoom in the game is terrible. Head shots are almost impossible with a DS3.

Every time I'm on top of a tower and I get forged, I'm crouched stationary (because I bloody well HAVE to be to try and catch the headshot) and the FGer is making figure eights with his DS3. He'll miss me twice before I finally tag the first headshot. Then he hits. Or he misses again and ducks behind something to reload and let his shield hp regen. Pops back out, figure 8, I try to tag a headshot again, what a surprise, that was just a bodyshot (or a miss altogether), blinded by the flash from the FG near-miss, much of my shield HP gone from splash damage - whew, that was close! I'd better kill this g-

Clone terminated.
Some dude
His corp
Militia Forge Gun - 249m
Remaining Shield - all of it :: Remaining Armor - most of it
Damage dealt - enough to kill me 3 times over, on a body shot

Forge gunners can cry me a river. I've NEVER shot at a stationary FGer, except when I've killed them. Which is to say, the only FGer a sniper's going to beat in a duel is the one that DOES stand still like an idiot and LET the sniper headshot them 2 or 3 times. I haven't seen one of THOSE unicorns in a long, long time.

if you cant hit him just move out of his range.....he literally has no chance of hitting you past 250 meters....and if your crouched of course hes gonna hit you try strafing

You're not familiar with how sniper rifles work, are you?

lol, Tyjus is just an excellent example of a player that hates camping. Regardless of having a significant impact on the game or not he'd rather run around and quick scope than run overwatch.

Most maps are limited on where you can actually get a good angle off, especially since they removed the ability to sit atop the obelisks, so any forge gun user sitting atop a flat surface is virtually untouchable now due to the distance away any locations that are close to level with a building they sit on.

You're not familiar with how sniper rifles work, are you?

Ah, so not JUST headshot damage (except on the Charge and Thale's). That's more reasonable. I failed to understand that from the OP - my apologies.

I hope you caught the suggestion about tiered Compact nanohives (my original suggestion was to allow ADV and PRO compacts to carry 2 and 3 hives respectively, but an increase in nanite clusters would be equally nice - one or the other, not both, I'm not trying to be greedy here).

Overall, you must remember that the Thales must remain superior ! As it is an Officer weapon. Otherwise there would be no use for it and we would need another Officer Variant.

if you cant hit him just move out of his range.....he literally has no chance of hitting you past 250 meters....and if your crouched of course hes gonna hit you try strafing

Wouldn't a lower nanite consumption on sniper rifles also work?

The problem with the Thale's zoom level, is it allows them to very effectively operate outside the render distance of pretty much everyone. It's why Thale's users are essentially invisible, and impossible to locate and counter.

YES! I don't know what the numbers are on nanite consumption vs. nanite clusters in a hive.

From what I could gather of Rattati's input, it seems to me that the charge variant is going to be the least used. Standard version has the best range and receives a damage buff, so I suppose it will be the most used variant for all tower and redline snipers (yes, redline snipers aren't going away after delta - if you believe the contrary you are sorely mistaken). The tactical variant may see some good use, especially on Cal. commandos in a RR + TacSR combo. The charge however, seems like the worst choice. No base damage buff, and with the new orientation towards headshot bonus, the charge is going to be the most difficult to use. If you miss with the charge, you will get the fewest chances to correct. Combine this with the fact that you can be outranged by the standard version, and you get a pretty lousy weapon.

With all that in mind, here's my (counter)proposal to Rattati's OP:

I believe that the new headshot orientation for SRs is not necessarily a bad move. However, I think that headshots shouldn't be the only option for successful sniping. Getting headshots may prove to be so difficult task that no amount of headshot damage bonus could compensate. And since there are three sniper rifle variants this could be remedied and also allow for several different approaches to sniping, making the role more versatile and customizable.

Therefore,

Sniper rifle: I think the proposed change seems a solid choice for the "headshot sniper". With the longest range, it would allow it's user most safety to go for those hard-to-get, but immensely rewarding headshots.

Tactical sniper: This could be the closest thing to a DMR, but it's currently not clear just how much ROF, clip size and ammo it will get. If it would be possible to eliminate sway while standing (still, of course), this could be a very interesting weapon. However, to differentiate it further from the standard SR, I think it should have even less range (300m), less headshot bonus (200%), but allow for less static gameplay and making quick successive shots. Sort of a TacAR on steroids.

Charge sniper: This one would be the "bodyshot sniper". By this I mean very small headshot bonus (if any at all), but massive base damage. By "massive" I mean being able to OHK any scout suit, and even poorly (or cheaply) tanked mediums. By no means should the charge SR be able to OHK proto, or even solidly tanked advanced mediums, and my proposed small (or non-existant) headshot bonus would be a guarantee for that. If this variant proves to be OP, or the next "redline favorite", it's range could be further nerfed to 350m, but I think it should retain it's massive base damage.

So, there you have it. Three very different sniper rifles, each allowing for a distinctive approach to sniping.

Whaddaya think?

P.S. I also think that the charge variant should be introduced at advanced level, not just proto.

Sniper Rifle - the Suppressor, enough firepower to line up enough bodyshots to suppress, kill stragglers and countersnipe

Highest range, medium clip and medium ammo, sustainable dps
High damage - High headshot modifier 300% (from 196%)
New Effective range - 450
Reticule - New Sniper reticule based on Plasma cannon

Charged Sniper Rifle - the Executioner, one shot-one kill type

Trades range and ROF for alpha damage, high headshot multiplier and highest native damage, smallest clip and ammo
High damage - Very high headshot modifier 350% (from 196%)
New Effective Range - 400
Reticule - New Sniper reticule based on Plasma cannon

Tactical Sniper Rifle - the Rifleman, stand and shoot, and has enough ROF and damage output to effectively take down approaching enemies. (basically super TAR)

High damage - high headshot modifier - 250% (from 196%)
Main change - Increased ROF, clip size and ammo, direct damage
New Effective Range - 350
Reticule - the current circle to allow shorter range engagements and snap shots

We want there to be a proper range progression from novaknife to sniper rifle, and a place on the battle field for each range bracket.

Charge sniper is already the body shotter hence its attraction currently.

So 'proper range progression' is:

Touching distance - OHK (charged nova knife)
Short range - 1 or 2 shot kill (shotgun)
Mid range - multishot kill with moderate initial DPS (most rifles)
Long range - multishot kill with low initial DPS (laser rifle)
Extra long range - OHK (charge sniper rifle)

Spot the outlier...

We are also increasing normal damage on tactical and normal snipers.

3 proto damage mods, max prof, commando bonus.

1431.51 headshot damage raw before prof and armor vs shields factor
1574.70 headshot damage against armor before prof
1810.91 headshot damage against armor after prof
1288.39 headshot shield damage

Also calmando is not a sniper suit, it's just only suits that has extra bonuses for SR.

So what you're saying is, the calmando makes a high damage long range weapon even higher damage

So it can be used as a sniper suit

Instead of nerf all zoom, CCP should buff all zoom and problem would be solved.

No, because with the buffed zoom, all snipers would be impossible to find except by other snipers. That's the problem with the Thale's zoom. It allows Thale's to effectively snipe from way too far out.

Current charge sniper has a range of 600m. Reducing the range to 400m (or even 350) will make the rifle lose much of it's "allure". Especially if it exists only in a 47k ISK proto variant (which I'm against). Also, body shotter or not, if you score a headshot with a (current) charge, you'll OHK almost everything but a heavy. This is not what I'm proposing.

I'm simply against the idea that all snipers should so heavily rely on headshots to be effective. AFAIC, standard variant could be made as a "body shotter", and charge as a "head shotter". As long as people have the option to choose what suits them best, this balancing of sniper rifles can only make the game better and more interesting.

If your not reading the entire thread...make an effort to read post #1.

Edit: right now theyre 600m.